The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Are China and the U.S. About To Cut A Huge Deal? How Could That Affect Canada?

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

China and the United States could be on the verge of a deal that could have a huge impact on world trade. All eyes will be on a Thursday meeting between Donald Trump and Xi Jinping -- could Canada be far behind? And Venezuela -- is regime change in the offing? Dr Janice Stein of the Munk School at the University of Toronto joins for her regular Monday appearance. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You're just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. This is the week where all eyes are on China. Dr. Janice Stein, coming right up. And hello there, once again, Peter Mansbridge here. Good to have you with us. Hope you had a great weekend. Hope you're ready for a busy.

week on a lot of different fronts. We're going to talk about them all today with Dr. Janice Stein from the Monk School, the University of Toronto, for another one of her regular Monday appearances. As always, though, we start Monday by letting you know what the question of the week is. And because you heard it in the flagging of the story this week, which is with Dr. Stein, the main element is about China. and how this week is a key week to understand the future China is going to play in our world.

And when I say our world, that's exactly what I mean. Obviously with Canada, but with the United States. Big meetings coming up this week between Trump and Gigi Ping. We'll talk about that in a moment. And as a result of our focus, Not our only focus in the discussion with Dr. Stein, but one of them. But as a result of that, this is the question for this week. Because Canada seems to have a new relationship with China, wants a new relationship with China,

wants to open up doors with China on the trade front. So here's our question, our question of the week. to you. Is it smart to expand the relationship with China, or does that have dangerous downsides? Okay. Is it smart to expand the relationship with China, or does that have dangerous downsides? That's your question for this week. Seventy-five words or fewer in your answers, please. Email to The Mansbridge Podcast at gmail.com. The Mansbridge podcast, at gmail.com. Have your answers in

by 6 p.m. Eastern Time on Wednesday. Includes your name and the location you're writing from. All those are important conditions. And as always, look forward to hearing from all of you. We have many people who write every week.

Doesn't mean, as they know, doesn't mean automatically they're going to be on the program. Still becomes the value of the comments you have to But we're always anxious to include new letter writers who write into the bridge, as we did last week. We had a lot of them on last week's question. And we'd love to hear from all of you as many of you as possible again this week. You've heard the conditions. You've heard the question.

So think about it. But you might be wise to listen today, first of all, to what Dr. Stein has to say on the China questions. And other things. It's not just China in the discussion today. We also talk about Venezuela and we talk about the Middle East. So all of that coming up. A reminder about tomorrow, it's Tuesday and every second Tuesday is the Moore-Buts conversation. And James Moore and Jerry Butts are going to be talking about,

well, you're going to talk about Trump, Doug Ford, Mark Carney, U.S., Canada, for one. And we're also going to talk about debt and deficit and the role it plays in our lives right now as we approach the budget in a couple of, well, it's not even a couple of weeks now. It's a short time. So all that tomorrow.

Wednesday will be an encore edition this week, Thursday, your turn, and your answers to the question of the week and Friday. Of course, as always, good talk. Huge numbers for good talk last week. As a result, I guess, of the whole Trump, Doug Ford, Mark Carney thing. Enough on that. Let's get to today's discussion with Dr. Janice Stein.

I think you're going to find this interesting right from the start. Here we go. Here's Dr. Stein. Okay, Janice, we're going to. going to start with something that most of our listeners don't know about you, and that's that you're a baseball fan. And you were at, if there was going to be a game you want to be at for the Blue Jays this year, it was Friday night, and you were at it. It was. What was it like? What was it like in there? I've never experienced anything like that in all the years.

You know, announcers use the word electric. It doesn't be. to describe what it was like, you couldn't talk to the person next to you. It was so loud that it was impossible to talk to the person next to you. Any other really remarkable thing was, you know, they hit a home run. And for four rows, everybody would be high-fiving each other. It didn't matter if you'd never met these people before and you're never going to see again it was such a community feeling i've never ever experienced anything like that in my life people were standing all through the game right the whole game that's right yeah you know i'm still

in scotland and it was whatever three o'clock four o'clock in the morning and i was i was watching it through the magic of of television signals and uh you know i was standing here I mean, watching that. I mean, it was quite something. You know, people would get up at the most, they'd sit down in, as a hitter came up for the first pitch. But as soon as you got to one strike, you need three to get out, everybody would stand up. It was really something else. I think that was, you know, that was a moment.

I know that, you know, Canadians coast to coast. support the team. And they really do. And I think that was just one of those come-together moments. And it was so interesting because it came on the day or within 24 hours.

I think that Trump had cancel the trade talks. And oh, wow. Well, it was a great day for the Blue Jays. It's a great day for Canadian baseball fans. It's rare that you get all of Canada cheering for a Toronto. team but that's right that's right we'll take it when we can let me tell you one other one

other yeah just because it's such a feeling for I was coming back from Washington to Toronto because I was going to be here on Friday and across from me were two men a father and a son who were going to again dressed up in blue jay shirts and I said oh are you Canadians oh no we're from Florida I said oh you're from Florida and you're flying up pretty game. Oh, yeah, we hate the Dodgers. And the Blue Jays are a great team. And do you know that nobody in the United States except New York Yankees fans like the Dodgers and everybody in the United States is running for the Blue Jays. I said, you should tell that to Canadians when you get up here. That's right. Well, you know, as Yogi said, it ain't over till it's over.

And we saw on Saturday night that this is going to be a tight series. But now they go for three games in Los Angeles. Let's just hope Toronto wins at least one of those games, which means it'll come back to Toronto for at least one more game. But let's see. Let's see what happens. Of course, if Toronto decides to win all three games in Los Angeles, that would be fine, too. Okay, let's get to what?

everybody likes to hear from you, and that's a sense of where things are on the international stage in foreign policy, foreign affairs. There are a couple of things I want to get at this week. And the first one is about China, because China's going to be in the news a lot this week, and it already is with, you know, the U.S. hinting that they're close to a deal if they haven't already signed some kind of an arrangement

with the Chinese to move away from the tariffs, and it would signal a whole new. era of trade, which obviously Canada wants to get in on with China as well. But what do you make of what we're hearing so far? These countries, you know, China and the United States are playing chicken with each other. There are other people like Trump, versions of Trump, who play hardball increasingly. and Xi Jinping is one of them. But what differentiates Shiji Ping from Trump?

He's cautious. He's patient. He plays the long game. He's not erratic in the way that Donald Trump is. And China is a country that's been pushing back against Trump's terror more effectively than any other country in the world. And that's because it can in a way that no other country can. We talked last week about critical minerals.

Well, that's, you know, that is the whole, the chokehold that China has on Donald Trump. So what I'm looking for, Peter, is not only whether the tariffs come down, but what's the framework a great deal? What is it going to do to the export of U.S. technology into China, which they really want, that are important for computer chips, and what's it going to do to this new licensing system that Xi Jinping says is going into effect November the first on who gets to buy process critical minerals from China? Because without those critical minerals, you can't make the advanced computer chips. Well, as we know very well with Trump, things go up and down on trade negotiations or any negotiations.

So who knows where it will be by the end of this week. But how does Canada fit into this picture? Because Mark Carney has plans on China. We just saw Anita and on the Foreign Affairs Minister in China. And she seemed to be quite pleased with what was accomplished during her visit, also to India as well. But how does Canada fit into the story that Trump's building with Xi Jinping right now? I think, you know, I think Carney is right. We have to diversify our trading relationships.

And to pretend that you can ignore the Chinese market, which, you know, is arguably after the United States, the biggest market in the world, is to ignore, you know, the biggest economic opportunity that Canada will have. And we have had historically, there's good history between Canada and China in a way that there is not. So this is, I think, the promise you're absolutely right to try to open that door. I think it will be much easier for Canada if Trump and Gigi Payne reach a framework arrangement of any kind, frankly, Peter, because it's then more difficult for Donald Trump to push back hard against us for doing a version of what he's doing if they don't reach an agreement. And it's got to be over-critical. It's got to include pulling back on both critical minerals and advanced technologies. There can be, you know, you can carve out exceptions,

but if they don't make progress on that, the rest doesn't matter because they are locked in mortal combat then. But if they do, I think that's a real opportunity for Canada to do much more of what it needs to do in Asia. Spell not out for me when you say he's got to pull back on the critical millerals issue. What are you saying there? And again, how does it affect us? So there's been a series of tit-for-tat escalations by the United States and by China.

And China has, so the United States has the best advanced technologies, which it buys. by the way, it's computer chips, which it buys from Taiwan, just to complicate this picture with a supply chain that's in the Netherlands. So this is a global story. But without those advanced computer chips, China will never lead in the research on AI. It could well lead on adoption, but it won't lead in research, and it needs access to those advanced computer chips. So what do the Chinese have?

It's really a sound when you look back at the Biden administration and earlier, the first Trump administration, because China has been preparing for this moment for more than a decade. It controls the supply chain, Peter, of 70% of the world's critical minerals. It's locked up companies in Africa.

where they're made and around the world. So it's locked down that supply chain. And then to add to it, you have to process them. It's really dirty in terms of the environment. It is pollution generating. China does 90% of that. So we can talk till we're blue in the face, frankly. At the best, it'll be a decade.

The Trump administration is making investments now. It's invested in a Canadian mining company, Canadian technology is invested in other mining companies around the world. It's looking for alternatives. This is not tomorrow. And the United States, the economy of the United States, would be severely disrupted by what China says it's going to do. So what's China going to do?

It's going to establish a registry. If there's a product that has more than 1% of critical minerals in it or the critical minerals themselves, there's going to be a registry. You have to apply to get an export license for that product. Your company has to give the Chinese government elaborate financial details about the business, and it has to track where that point. product is going in any supply chain. That is a mammoth amount of information for China. Are you saying that the Americans are prepared to go along with that? No. I mean, this is as far as the United States is concerned, appalling. But if they don't go along with it, the supply chain for advanced computer chips will be.

will be disrupted. And we're talking about everything from manufacturing because there's so many different ones and they're important for different things. So from jet engines to advanced computer chips to every single advanced manufacturing process the United States has will be disrupted by this chokehold that the Chinese have.

So they won't go along. The thought of a disruption is gone awful. That's why there is this momentum for some sort of framework agreement. Well, if you can imagine these two sitting at the table, who's holding the best chips? It's a great question. Is it Trump or is it Xi Jinping? You know, they're each holding different chips. Right? And each needs the other.

That's what makes this. This is high noon, you know, where you walk toward each other and each one has a gun. And they have to make, by Thursday when they meet in South Korea. This is probably thus far the most important meeting in the Trump presidency. he hasn't seen Xi Jinping in person since 2019, and it's most important for Shiji Pink.

You know, if they're both under control, let me put about it. And Shiji Bing is fully under control, always, and staffed. You can't say the same thing for Donald Trump. They would reach an agreement,

which the tariffs would come way down on Chinese products, because they're 150% Gigi Ping would soften the requirements for financial disclosure and loosen the restrictions on exports of critical minerals. He's done that before. And Donald Trump is going to have to loosen the restrictions on exports of advanced technology, and he's done that before.

That would be the best possible outcome we could get. Trump seemed to indicate over the weekend that they were, you know, they had a draft agreement already. And that's, I mean, that's usually how these kind of things work. Right. But do you see a draft agreement as an agreement? No. Okay. No, no.

We had a draft agreement too, right? And then it got blown up. And I'm one of those skeptics who does not believe it was Doug Ford. courts and that blew up that agreement. I think there were real problems that became evident by early last week, and this was just a convenient thing that the president used. But I think the fact that they leaked, there's a draft agreement, that Trump had, you know, one day it will be fine.

We have a good relationship. She ping likes me. The next day, they're nasty to us. But that the third day back to this will be fine. And they've telegraphed their meeting. If this were business as usual, you'd think that they would not leak the fact that there's a draft agreement unless they were prepared to sign something. If they do reach an agreement over the next week, a real agreement and they signed something together, How much does that take off the table, this sort of global mess on the trade front, a China-U.S. deal.

What would that do to the big picture? So I think it's so important for the U.S. economy, first of all. And again, how long will it last? They've been, they were there before, and then it blew up again because the United States started this round when it escalated, export restrictions on advanced technology. But if they do, it's critically important for the U.S. economy to keep growing and to keep its lead in advanced technology. It's important for the Chinese economy. And this is really stunning to Peter. You know, it's hard to make these advanced chips. It's really hard. There's

really requires the ultimate and precision to make these chips. But the Chinese have not been able to do it. They make just below that advanced level but for an economy as sophisticated as China's, they're still not there. So they really need this.

So I think for these two biggest economies in the world, this is important. For some countries, this is going to be good news. For Canada, I think it's good news. For the Europeans, I think, especially the Germans who export heavily into China, this will be good news. For allies in Asia, where Trump is also going, so he's going to meet with the Prime Minister of Japan just before. And that's why you hear the note of reservation in my voice. She's new.

First woman prime minister ever in Japanese history. conservative hard line on China the risk here the story the last person that Donald Trump will talk to before he has his meeting in South Korea with Donald with

Shishi Ping is the Prime Minister of Japan who is overwhelmingly preoccupied by the threat from China and will actually not be thrilled And she's tough from what I've read about it.

Very tough. As you said, she's conservative. Her sort of political hero or heroin is Margaret Thatcher. Right. So she's not going to be shy sitting there across from Trump. No. So, you know, the nightmare scenario, they have a long one-on-one.

She paints in graphic detail. The danger that China poses to the Pacific, and, you know, it states, and that's the last person he hears from. That's why. That last person he hears from can have an impact as we, as we've seen. For sure.

Okay. We're going to take a break, and then we're going to change the subject here. But first, we'll take that quick break. Here we go. And welcome back. You're listening to The Bridge, the Monday episode. That means Dr. Janice Stein from the Mug School, the University of Toronto. You're listening on Sirius XM, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. We're glad to have you with us, however you are joining us.

Okay. Here's the question. And this is for our listening audience. So don't, I know you'll know the answer, but I want to play it out. for listeners first. Where do you, which country in the world do you think

has the largest reserves of oil anywhere in the world? You know, if you're thinking Saudi Arabia, if you're thinking Canada, if you're thinking the U.S., if you're thinking Iran. Russia.

Russia. You'd be wrong on all of them. Because the country with the largest oil, Reserves in the world is Venezuela. And Venezuela is where, as we know, because we talked about it six weeks ago, Trump has been ordering aircraft to take out what he says are drug cartel boats. He's never offered any real proof of that, but nevertheless, that's what he says.

He's taking them out. He's killing the occupants. He's, you know, blowing up the drugs that they've got, supposedly. Now he's got the largest aircraft carrier in the U.S. naval fleet on its way from the Mediterranean to the Caribbean. He's got 6,000 troops. He's going to station in Puerto Rico. I mean, this looks like a lot more than a drug operation.

So what's going on? Something is clearly going on, Peter. It is not interdicting. boats carrying drugs. The story makes, the official story makes absolutely no sense. First of all, let's talk for one minute that he has no legal authority to do what he's doing. And for the first time, stirring some Congress because drug running is a criminal activity.

And what do you do when you're dealing with criminals? you arrest them. You don't kill them. And, you know, there are at least 43 people who have been killed in these raids and unidentified also. Secondly, Venezuela doesn't export fentanyl. It exploits, it grows and exports cocaine.

Now, that may be a distinction without a difference, but, you know, even, Even Rubio has been talking about this. What's the justification for this? Oh, we're killing these people because look at the number of U.S. deaths from fentanyl, not from cocaine, right? And there's no legal justification for what he's doing, which is, you know, that is an issue we can come back to. And I think they will come back to in U.S. history because, as you know, the Supreme Court rule, the president is immune from anything he does in his capacity, his president.

But this is coming home to Roost now, that he seems to have unchecked executive authority to do anything he wants, regardless of what the law says. If you look at what he's put in the region, holy smoke, the aircraft carrier, which, as you said, the largest one at Ford is steaming toward the Caribbean. There are warships already there, eight, I think, at last look. This is an armada. You don't use these against small craft with 11 people on a boat, regardless of what cargo.

It has the smell, the look, the feel of a ground invasion. of Venezuela. You know, the story is, well, again, the weeks, because nobody can make sense of this, so people in Washington are talking. So, okay, there would be a ground incursion on, along the, you know, into Venezuela in those areas where some of the drug running

is concentrated. You don't need the fort for that. You just don't. This feels like regime change, frankly. Sure does. Okay. And it feels like it's not about drugs. It feels like it could be about oil.

Yeah. You know, it's funny because last week we were talking about, oh, you never hear about war for oil anymore. It's all war for money. Well, if there's going to be a war here, those oil reserves are huge. Huge, huge. It could be about oil.

It could be about. about this is, so if there is such a thing as a Trump doctrine, which is really hard to find, by the way, because it's so inconsistent. But if there is, it's, this is Latin America, Central America, North America, that's my turf. So, you know, Canada's my turf, Greenland's my turf. Latin America is my turf, old Monroe Doctrine kind of thinking. And, you know, Venezuela, as we all know, is governed by a far left strongman that we in this country want. it out. You can remember right under Christian Freeland.

Yeah. We hosted a summit in Vancouver about how we remove the sky. And the Nobel Prize this year, much to Donald Trump's consternation, went to the leader of the opposition in Venezuela.

A fan of Donald Trump's. A fan of Donald Trump's because she sees the same thing that all the rest of us are seeing, that this may be the prelude to regime change. You know, add to the mix that Marco Rubio, who the Secretary of State has long said before he became Secretary of State

that it should be a priority for the United States to remove, to change regime in Venezuela. Boy, is this a worrying thought is all I can say? We've seen how well regime change works when it comes from the outside. And the chaos it leaves behind, you know, in Iraq and Afghanistan, those didn't work. We've seen in Gaza how you put together an agreement, but then you don't do any of the hard stuff work for the day after, right? If it is regime change, that's the big question always. What's the day after?

You know, how is that organized? And is it, you hear nothing about that, frankly? So there is a possibility here for real chaos, again, for civil war inside Venezuela and for the United States to, for for people around Donald Trump, including Rubio, to believe that you can go in with force and take out the bad guy? Have you heard this story before? Right. And it'll all be fine. Yeah.

I mean, we remember, and you and I saw in Afghanistan and in Iraq, this sense that we'll go in, we'll get rid of the bad guys. People will welcome us, you know, with cheering crowds on the streets, open arms, flowers on the ground for us. to walk over and yeah sure it was like that for about 24 hours and then they were going okay you can leave now yeah and nobody did and we didn't for a long time um but you know as you say it's hard to believe that this is all about drugs not when you're assembling a force like this i mean you don't need an aircraft carrier to take out drug boats no no it's i mean it's not conceivable that it's about drugs. And one of the, you know, one of the real difficulties is, and they've been doing it slowly every week, every couple of weeks, another warship has come. As you said, 6,000 ground troops, pre-positioned now. It's hard to pull back once you've got the assets in place. especially if you're leaving the status quo

exactly as it was and you know interdicted 11 boats it's pretty hard for the president and his team to explain to the American public why they assemble the force like this and the force was never deployed, never used. That's the risk of starting down this road

and it's visible to everybody and they announced that the Ford is, the aircraft carrier is being redeployed to the Caribbean I can't believe it will end with no action, Peter.

You know, when we talked about this whenever it was, about six weeks ago, I asked you what are the other countries in Central America and South America saying about this? And your answer was basically They're no fans of Maduro, the president of Venezuela, nor were they of Hugo Chavez before him.

I guess the only fans they might have are in Cuba, right, where they have a relationship. But is that still the same? Because you're not hearing a peep out of anybody else from Central or South American. You know, I think it is. Look, the fact that Machado, the Nobel Prize winner, is a fan of Donald Trump's, you know, it tells you in a sense, you're right to raise this because, you know, how desperate people can feel. They tried everything to get rid of him, Maduro. There was an election. The election was, frankly, stolen. He was won by, Chado. She was forced out of the country and she saw refuge elsewhere. She nominated somebody else to take her place. No political process worked inside Venezuela to get rid of him. And so sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend. There is that kind of logic and you hold your

breath and you hope. But, you know, I can remember exactly that kind of argument in the Middle East. People looked at Saddam Hussein and there were moderate Egyptians who, Jordanians who had trouble with Saddam Hussein on their own border and kind of crossed their fingers and hoped, well, maybe it wouldn't be too terrible. it was terrible. And if you ask them now, in retrospect, it would be, hands off. We don't want anybody from outside the region.

However bad the problem of Maduro is, it's just, you know, if we take a picture for a minute, just imagine, you know, Machado would come back. There would have to, you'd have to stand up a government around her, the military who benefits hugely from the export of cocaine. hugely in the army's large inside Venezuela. And that's where Maduro came from, right? He came out of the military. Yeah. And they've got very heavily, heavily invested in the cocaine business. They lose everything when he goes.

Absolutely everything. They will resist, right? And she does not have an army. So, and that can spill over Venezuela's borders. to other countries. And it's not hard to paint a picture where any kind of attempted at doing this by force, by the United States,

especially, which in Latin America, they've seen this movie many times before and they don't like how it ends, would leave a wake of chaos. And Donald Trump would turn his back and say, well, we succeed. we're almost out of time but it would be wrong for me not to at least touch base with you as to where we are on the Gaza story it's been a couple of weeks now since the peace deal I still put that in like air quotes what are you hearing well first of all the ceasefire is holding and many many many people were worried about that but the ceasefire is hold

Second of all, it's been in many ways an astonishing two weeks. Where are we now? The United States has set up a command and control center inside Israel, where Canada is represented inside this command of control center, as is Britain, as is Germany, as is Spain, as is France, as are the Emirates and other Arab governments. And what's the purpose of this to do two things? One other thing, the United States is now running drones over Gaza to monitor the ceasefire.

So what does this story really tell us? Control of what happens in Gaza on one side of the yellow line, on the western side, has been functionally taken away from Israel. Who would have believed that two weeks ago? And that's not because Netanyahu likes this. It's because he's been forced to do it. Those American officials who went over said again and again, we are running things in Gaza now.

It's enough. We are running things. The worst outcome, Peter, and I think this would be, be significantly bad that that we can get is a divided Gaza, where the ceasefire holds. Development assistance goes in where Israel, you know, because Israel controls half of Gaza now, down the yellow line, development assistance go in.

Very few people there, by the way, because this will withdrew from the populated centers. And on the other side, Hamas effectively controls the other side of gas now because that stabilization force was not ready when the ceasefire went into place. You needed to deploy it at the same time and you needed to deploy the police forces. That didn't happen. That's just lousy, lousy staff work. which is a characteristic of Trump administration. So an outcome for the Palestinians, that would be really bad.

Anything is better than the fighting. Let me make that clear again. And here people may disagree with me, but the Palestinians I speak to are absolutely clear. Anything is better than a resumption of fighting. But half will again be governed by Hamas. in one way or another, they will pull back, they will not be as visible, but they will be, people will know they're there. And the other part, Israel will not pull back until Hamas is disarmed.

And we have a standoff that lasts not weeks, not months, but a very long time. That's a bad outcome for Palestinians. last point is as we talked a few weeks ago one of the people in the background to all this and having a huge say on how things would unfold was tony blair is he there he's still heavily heavily heavily involved he's still heavily involved he is working hard to get that peace police force in because the jordanians have been training it it's not far off he's very heavily involved

two weeks later Peter they're up against the question you asked who's going to send a stabilization force into that part of Gaza which has the majority of the population when a mass is in the streets with guts and the answer is

no one there has no no one unless there's assurances from Hamas that they will not fire on them because that may work for them too. They do not want to govern Gaza. They were never interested in governance. That's not what they want.

They want an Islamic state, you know, of Palestine governance. That's boring. It's a distraction. It pins us down. We don't want to do that. exactly well that gives us a better sense of what's really on the ground there and i appreciate that we're out of time but another great conversation um got all our ducks in a row for another week

and we'll see where we are seven days from now big week to watch in Asia though big big big week Thanks, Janice. See you next week. There you go, Dr. Janice Stein. Another great Monday conversation from the head of the Monk School of the University of Toronto. Lots of thoughts to consider

in terms of some of the big issues that are happening around the world right now. Okay, that's also going to wrap it up for us. For this day, tomorrow, the Moore-Buts conversation, and we're going to deal with the the Carney Trump Doug Ford situation

you know it changes every day but I don't want to get caught up in the daily stuff I want to do the big picture on that conversation Wednesday on court Thursday is your turn

and the question of the week is is it smart to expand the relationship with China or does that have dangerous downsides the Mansbridge podcast to gmail.com is where you write, include your name and the location you're writing from. Keep it to 75 words or fewer, and you have to have it in by 6 p.m. Eastern time on Wednesday.

Those are the deals that we have each week on the question of the week. Random Rantor will be by on Thursday as well, and it's a good talk on Friday with Chantelle and Bruce. I'm Peter Ransbridge. Thanks so much for listening on this day, and look forward to talking to you again. in less than 24 hours.