The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - "Do You Really Want To Work From Home Anymore?"

Episode Date: May 13, 2021

Some new discussion points about the hybrid work situation may be settling the "work from home or work from the office" debate. The latest on the electric car situation and why China is making us chew dust.  And how much would you pay for a very special view of the earth?

Hello there, Peter Mansbridge here with the latest episode of The Bridge. In just a few moments, we're going to talk about where you're going to work, at home or at the office, when this is all over. Like you, I have been so grateful and so thankful for frontline workers during the COVID crisis. Let's just talk about the frontline workers at SickKids, which is one of the world's best children's hospitals. SickKids doctors also work behind the scenes on incredible breakthroughs to help our kids and generations to come. Listen to their inspiring stories in a new season of the popular podcast called SickKids Versus. Each episode explores a major SickKids discovery like like, well, a virus-fighting supermolecule or a cure for hard-to-treat cancers.

Just visit SickKidsFoundation.com slash podcast or search SickKids versus and spell versus VS. So SickKids VS. You'll be amazed at what you learn. And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here with the latest episode of The Bridge. It's the Thursday potpourri episode, which means we kind of look at some things that have kind of slipped by over the last little while while we've been focused on the news of the day and we've got some interesting stuff here today I think at least interesting to me hope it'll be interesting to you about a year ago a little more than a year ago I guess it

would have been in April of 2020 when we were all starting to think about how is this really going to change our lives? Are we going to be different? Will there be a new normal? In a lot of the things that we do and the way we live as a result of the pandemic, are things going to change? And gosh, in those early days, we were pretty sure they would. Everything's going to be different. And I remember thinking about that and being one of those people who was pretty convinced that things would really change because we were having to adapt our lifestyles

to try and fit the fight against the pandemic. So I talked to a number of people and said, who should I call? Who should I talk to? And I said, I don't want some big American futurist, some big European futurist. I want somebody Canadian who can talk about this. And my friend said, it's only one guy. His name's Dan Gardner. He's an Ottawa writer, author. And I knew, I didn't know personally Dan, but I certainly knew of him and I'd read a lot of his work. And so I thought, yeah, right, let's call Dan. And so I phoned Dan. And we had a great conversation right here on the bridge.

And the bottom line from Dan was, look, we're going through something unlike anything else in our history. This is a generational thing. And sure, it's not surprising that we'd be talking about how it's going to change our lives. But he said, listen, don't assume everything's going to change. We make this mistake every time something big comes along. We think, wow, the world will never be the same again. Everything's going to change.

And his advice was, you know, in the past, not everything changes. In fact, sometimes not very much changes at all. So be careful about the predictions. There may be some things that are a little different, but in terms of big, overwhelming societal change, don't gamble on that. Don't bet on it.

One of the things we used as an example back then, and it was a popular one and has been for most of the last year, is the whole issue of where will we work? Now, a lot of people, things haven't changed. Frontline health care workers, grocery store clerks, farmers, truck drivers, you name it. All of them who have been the front line of the fight against the pandemic, they're still working pretty much the same way they've always worked.

They're just getting a lot more recognition on deservedly so, or for being essential to the fight against the pandemic. But for the large percentage of workers, things have changed. For one, many are working from home as opposed to from an office. And that's led a lot of the management types who initially thought, okay, this will be the way it is for a month or two, and by the summer, last summer, everybody would be back at it in their normal way.

But it didn't turn out that way. And the longer it went, the more they started to see, hey, there are potential upsides to this. We don't need big office space. We can really cut back on our leasing situations for office space. We should be looking at a permanent work-from-home situation. And then slowly adrifted to, well, maybe a hybrid situation where you kind of work half at home and half at the

office. You divide up your week or you have some workers who work from the office, some who work from home. They saw potential savings. The bean counters got in there and said, hey, listen, man, we can save some money here. We can make the company more profitable. Now there were hookups and issues that created problems in that theory, but nevertheless that's what they were looking at. And they've continued to look at and some still look at. But there's also what appears to be an increasing degree of knowledge and advice that's suggesting, you know what, maybe we don't need to change that much, if at all. Now, I found in the last couple of weeks, it was

last week actually, a really good piece in the Boston Globe, written by John Levy, who's an author and a writer and writes for the Boston Globe. And the piece is called The Hybrid Workplace Probably Won't Last. The sub-headline, having some people work from home while their teammates are in the office, runs counter to much of what makes organizations tick. Now, my guess is that a lot of companies, if they haven't already heard of this article, are probably looking it up.

It's pretty good. It makes you think. And it draws upon a little history in terms of the workplace, how things have operated. One of the first things that the writer quotes from is something called the Allen curve. Have you ever heard of that? Well, the Alan curve is named after a former professor of management at MIT,

the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His name is Thomas J. Allen. So in the 1970s, 50 years ago, he discovered that communication between people in an office increased exponentially the closer their desks were. Now, I guess that kind of makes sense, right? The closer you are to your workmate, the more the communication between the two of you is likely to occur.

And Professor Allen said that, you know, if people were, say, 50 meters apart, they might as well have been on different planets. And even in the age of email and Zoom, that fact remains. Out of sight is often out of mind. If some employees are seen only at video meetings, there's less chance the rest of the community will value them. That's the key word in there, value. If you don't see them, if they're not close to you, it doesn't mean you don't see them, if they're not close to you,

it doesn't mean you don't like them. It just means you don't value them in terms of their input in the workspace. As Professor Allen wrote in 2006, we do not keep separate sets of people, some of whom we communicate with by one medium and some by another. The more often we see someone face-to-face, the more likely it is that we will also telephone that person or communicate by another medium. Remote work may be fine if you are a freelancer hired for a specific job or if you are a salesperson in the field. But in the hybrid office where some people are in person and others are remote, working from home has serious implications for being recognized and appreciated

and getting bonuses and promotions. And that's something that's cropped up little bits and pieces over the last year to me when I think about it. When I think of my past work experiences over the past 50 years, I see that. I see that very clearly. The difference it makes when you're working alongside somebody as to when you're working remotely from them. And I'll give you an example. One of the issues in my business and the business of journalism, when I was one of the senior editors at the CBC through my role as the anchor,

you know, you came up with certain theories and perceptions about a situation or a story that you were covering based on the discussions that you had on a continuing basis with those immediately around you. Now, if the story was, say, in Moscow or Beijing or Jerusalem, you would obviously include the correspondent in those discussions. You would say, well, let's check with so-and-so in Jerusalem. Get them on the phone. And we have our theories, but let's hear from them.

And you'd have a phone call, and it would be informative and useful. It may last 10, 15 minutes, sometimes longer, but not usually. And then you'd get back to the discussion with those who you immediately work with. And more than often, the person at the other end of the line in Jerusalem would not like the end result of the conversation and what we ended up with on the air.

They'd call the next day and say, you know, you really, you missed the boat on that. You didn't get it. And then when I'd travel, and I tried to travel a lot when I was the anchor, I believed that it's important that the anchor take the program on the road as often as possible without exorbitant costs involved. So I'd get out there, and as a former reporter for 20 years before I started anchoring, I could sense right away that tension between being out there and being at the home office.

I'd get frustrated on the road. I'd be in Afghanistan arguing with somebody on the desk in Toronto about what a story meant or how it should be characterized. Then you'd hang up the phone and you'd just look at your friends and you'd say, yeah, Toronto, they just don't understand. They don't get it. Which is ironic because that's what most of them were saying about me when I was in Toronto. But there is that distance, and it always exists,

and it always will exist between being out there and being in the office. And in a way, that's the same situation that we're discussing here in terms of those who would normally work in the office and maybe 50 meters away or a city block away or the other side of the city and remotely working they don't have the same influence and impact in the discussion that needs to take place every day about the situation. And it's no different in journalism than it is in whatever other business you're talking about in terms of that relationship. There's the development of the trust factor in all of this too. As distance, and going back here now to the article in the Boston Globe,

as distance increases, teams need higher levels of trust to function. And trust is traditionally created through little actions that are more fluid in person. I love this. These dynamics are so powerful that behavioral scientists have names for them, like the IKEA effect, which is our propensity to care more about anyone or anything we put effort into, like the flat pack furniture we assemble. And the vulnerability loop, which is when people come to trust each other more by demonstrating

vulnerability and finding that other people respond by revealing their own vulnerability in return. When we're face-to-face, this is a basic part of interaction, as in the side conversations we have between meetings. Right? It's one thing to have a Zoom meeting. Everybody sort of pitches in. You hear what everybody has to think. And then you push the end of meeting button. And the people who are in the office on a face-to-face, person-to-person basis, they continue on the discussions while everybody else is out of the loop.

I love the IKEA effect, though. I'm about caring more about putting that thing together with all those tiny tools they give you. All of this may not seem like a big issue, says the Boston Globe, but after more than a year of being at home, it is hard to remember what work life was like beforehand. We get used to a new normal and forget little things that made us effective. The risk is that over the long run,

those who are in person will bond more strongly than those who are at a distance. Those in the office will feel a much greater sense of belonging, and those who aren't will often be seen as outsiders or an afterthought. Sitting at home, it would be natural for people to resent those at the office getting snacks or catered meals and more quality time to impress the boss ultimately a two-class system has the potential to be corrosive to a sense of trust it could breed resentment and even paranoia so i read this stuff and i think back to dan gardner telling us don't jump to conclusions about what this is all going to be like afterwards.

It's too easy to fall into that trap. You've got to think this through. Social ties are important. Social ties with those you work with. The Globe gets around to its conclusion by talking about that. One of the greatest predictors, it says, of our longevity is whether we have close social ties. It's clear that we, as humans, are not designed to be alone. Our levels of oxytocin, I think is the way it's pronounced,

it's a hormone that's released during moments of togetherness, such as hugging. Well, it also increased when we enjoy a team success or even when we march in unison. Our species evolved in communities, and we survived because we worked together. The companies that create the greatest sense of belonging are the ones that people stay at for years.

It's hard to create a sense of community and a culture of belonging at a distance. But it's even harder when employees have dramatically different home lives and may have never even met the rest of the team. So there you go. Fascinating piece on the workplace. And this continuing discussion, you know, we're not at the end of this,

and a lot of companies, and I know some of the companies and institutions that I'm involved with by being on the board, are going through this as well. Because there are significant cost savings that could be put into making the company more productive in other areas by scaling back the number of those who come into the office and therefore the amount of space you need and therefore the amount of leasing you're paying for the building you're in.

But is it worth the downside that's pointed out in John Levy's piece in the Boston Globe. I think it's a good, it's a really good piece. And if you're looking for it, once again, the writer's name is John Levy. It's the Boston Globe. The headline is called The Hybrid Workplace Probably Won't Last. Okay, we're going to take a quick break.

Then we're coming back to something else that's been a topic on occasion through the last few months that we've hit on, and I find it fascinating, and I know some of you have too because you keep writing about it. By the way, don't be shy. Tomorrow's the weekend special. You've got something you want to comment on. It's been terrific this week because I've got a fair number of letters, emails from people who've never written before.

That's what we want to see. We've seen a real spike in audience numbers in the last two months. I haven't quite figured out why, but that's great that it's happening. And a lot of new people writing in. So if you have any thoughts or comments or ideas you want to toss into the mix, the weekend special highlights your thoughts, not mine, yours.

And we're always looking forward to good stuff. So that's the Mansbridge Podcast at gmail.com, the Mansbridge Podcast at gmail.com the mansbridge podcast at gmail.com drop me a line don't forget your name and where you're writing from when we come back the latest on electric cars are you still trying to find ways to get into the world of crypto we Well, look no further. Bitbuy is Canada's number one platform for buying and selling Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Bitbuy has launched a brand new app and website with a new look, lower fees, and new coins.

Bitbuy is your one-stop shop to get involved and super easy to use for beginners. Visit bitbuy.ca or download the BitBuy app. Enter referral code PODCAST20 to get $20 free when you make your first deposit. So about a month or six weeks ago, we did a special on electric cars. And there was a lot of reaction to that special. And I think a lot of you have also recognized of late that there are quite a number of North American car companies and European car companies that have started up electric divisions. They didn't start them overnight. I mean, working at it for a couple of years, but it's now hitting the production line.

And you're getting the option of buying these vehicles as people wean themselves off of gas. Well, here's an interesting fact. And I found it in the New York Times. Also last week. There are more cars being made in China than anywhere. A, that's not surprising. But B, what is surprising is they're building electric car factories like crazy in China. They're popping up all over the place.

There have been new startups in electric car companies in China, more of them than anywhere else in the world. And as I said, they're popping up in all kinds of different places across China. And a lot of non-Chinese car companies are building their factories in China. Labor is cheap.

Working conditions and working hours are extensive, and they're just churning out the vehicles, hundreds of thousands of them every year. China will be making over 8 million electric cars a year by 2028. That's not that far away. That's compared to 1 million last year outside of, or sorry, in China. So they're going up eight times the number that they're currently building. Europe is on track to make 5.7 million fully electric cars by 2028. So China will be outpacing all of Europe. And we should have seen the tip-off on this, on the concern about this, from Joe Biden.

Last month, he called for the United States to step up its electric vehicle efforts. During a visit, a virtual visit to an electric bus factory in South Carolina, he warned, right now we're running way behind China. North American automakers are on track to build only 1.4 million electric cars by 2028, compared with 410,000 last year. So not really going up that much, three times over the next seven years. So you got China at 8 million electric cars by 2028,

5.7 million in Europe, the big auto manufacturers, you know, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo. All of them. 5.7 million. And in North America, 1.4. So China will be outproducing the world on electric cars. And their new factories, they're quite something. This article in the New York Times, and sorry,

is written by a journalist by the name of Keith Bradshaw. It's called, As Cars Go Electric, China Builds a Big Lead in Factories. Volkswagen recently began construction on its third Chinese factory designed to produce electric cars. One of the drawbacks, and we heard it in our feature, on the electric car situation in Canada and the United States, but in particular in Canada, is the charging station situation. Well, that's not a problem in China.

They got over 800,000 public charging stations. That's almost twice as many as the rest of the world combined. Now, there is a bit of an advantage to, especially North American drivers, and I guess European drivers as well, is there are a lot more at-home charging stations than there are in China. But still, the success of these in the long run is going to be not only the number of public charging stations,

but the accessibility and the availability of those charging stations. Are you going to have to wait in a line for it? Or can you just go in, you know, connect, charge up, and be out of there in a relatively short period of time. And to do that, you're going to need other things in that public charging station area, whether it's restaurants or shopping or something, to occupy your mind, so you're not just sitting there twiddling your thumbs, waiting. Anyway, this article is great and the other thing it points out

you're saying well okay they're building all these factories what are they building you know what cars are these well i'll tell you you wouldn't recognize any of these names. Part of the reason why you wouldn't recognize any of them is that the Chinese don't even recognize any of them. There are all kinds of new companies starting up in China, electric car companies. There's the Hong Che.

Hey, nice Hong Che you got there got there buddy where'd you get that there's the gili the zeker The Zeker factory is being made in a new electric car factory near Ningbo on China's eastern coast. The factory is a cavernous space with miles of white conveyor belts and rows of 15-foot cream-colored robots made by ABB of Sweden. It has an initial capacity of 300,000 cars a year, larger than most car factories in Detroit. And it's got the floor space for expansion, but to make it even bigger. So, are we all going to be driving little Chinese electric cars in five years from now? You're going, no, we won't do that.

Well, that's what you said about Japanese cars and Korean cars. And we know what happened on that story. So let's see the way it unfolds. And let's see how competitive we are on the same front. You see both Biden and Justin Trudeau talking about supporting the electric vehicle industry. That it's the way of the future. I guess we're about to find out. Okay, quick last thing for the potpourri lovers out there. The online magazine The Verge

has a piece on something called Blue Origin. And I know you space junkies out there will know this. Blue Origin is one of the companies owned by Jeff Bezos, who made his billions with Amazon. Well, he's a bit of a space nut himself, and he

has a suborbital rocket called the New Shepard, and it's been through its testing phase, and guess what? Jeff Bezos is now ready to sell tickets. So I'm not going to give you the phone number to dial because I don't have that, but get your cash ready. I don't know how much you're going to need for this because they haven't announced yet,

but I don't imagine it's going to need for this because they haven't announced yet but i don't imagine it's going to be cheap reading from this piece in the verge no details on price or timelines yet but the company tweeted a video last week featuring a cowboy hat wearing jeff bezos driving electric rivian truck electric truck through the texas desert right after blue Origin's 15th New Shepard test flight on April 14th. How exciting is this? said Bezos. Well, it is pretty exciting. Now, what does this actually do? Does it orbit the Earth? No. The five-story tall New Shepard rocket is designed to launch a crew capsule

with seats for six, roughly 340,000 feet into the sky toward the edge of space. 340,000 feet is a long way up there. You know, most of your commercial airliners fly in the sort of 30,000 to 40,000 foot range. Paying tourists can experience a few minutes of weightlessness in microgravity and witness super high altitude views of Earth after separating from the crew capsule midair. The rocket booster returns for a vertical landing and minutes later the crew capsule also descends back to land under a set of parachutes for a soft touchdown. There you go. I guess the most exciting part, I guess weightlessness would be a little bit exciting.

You know, if you're not vomiting too much. The views from space must be spectacular. But to be honest, you can save yourself a lot of money and just subscribe to one of the streaming services. Is it the Apple box? Apple TV? You plug it in, if it goes into sort of a, you know, what do you call it, a quiet pattern where you're not dialing up something, it reverts to shots from, among other things, space. And it's like you're up there, looking down at Earth. It's pretty spectacular.

And it's probably from a height not that far from the height this thing's going to be going at. But really, there's nothing like being there, right? So Jeff, if you're not having any luck and you have some discounted tickets, give me a call. I just might be able to pony up

to go on one of your early flights. But something tells me you're not going to have much trouble selling tickets. No matter how expensive they are, there's a lot of money kicking around. Okay. That's your Potpourri Thursday edition of The Bridge. Hope you've enjoyed it.

Some interesting things to ponder there. Tomorrow, the weekend special later today on Sirius XM channel 167 Canada talks good talk with Chantal Hébert and Bruce Anderson you can still get that for free you got to subscribe in the sense of just giving us your email it's all there online at Sirius XM dot ca peter mansbridge just look around there you'll find it all you got to do is give your email and i think you get a month free of sirius xm which is a it's a pretty good deal for free it's not like that flight but the main thing is Good Talk's a great show

and lots of nice reaction to it and lots of people writing in about it. So we appreciate that as well. Good Talk this afternoon, 5 p.m. rebroadcast, Sundays at noon. Those times are all Eastern. I'm Peter Mansbridge. This has been The Bridge. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you again in 24 hours