The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Encore: How And Where Is The World Changing Under Donald Trump?

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Dr Janice Stein has been globetrotting again, to Japan, South Korea and Taiwan and she's got some great stories to tell about how the other side of the world is dealing with Trump 2.0.   Can we learn from what they're doing?

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You're just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge, and it's a Wednesday, so that means an encore Wednesday edition of The Bridge. And we're only going back two days, because it's still so relevant, this whole discussion of a world with Donald Trump 2.0. Janice Stein was with us on Monday. Now, some of the situations have changed slightly here, but they seem to change back and forth all the time. So I still think this is certainly worth listening to. It's a great discussion about a number of things that are going on in our world, from different parts of our world, as it relates to Donald Trump. So please enjoy. Hello there, welcome to another week. It's a big one on Canadian domestic politics. Coming up tonight, the first debate between the liberal leaders,

or those who want to be liberal leader. It's in French. Tomorrow night is in English. Tomorrow morning, Smoke Mirrors and the Truth will delve into what happened tonight. And then later this week, the Ontario election. So there's lots to talk about on domestic politics front. But not today. Today we're going to talk about international affairs, because it's our regular Monday discussion with Dr. Janice Stein. We missed last week with Janice because she was in the Far East. And that's what we're going to talk about, what she was hearing there.

I think you'll find it really interesting. Before we get there, a couple of things. Well, first of all, one of the big things that changed just in the last 24 hours is the German election. Germany went as expected. It went right. The Conservatives won that election, and therefore will form the next German government,

and finishing in second place, the alternative for Germany, an even further right party. So they're the official opposition, so to speak, in the German parliament. So, interesting times in Germany. Okay. I wouldn't assume though, right off the bat, and we'll need to do a little more study and research into this, that the new German government is totally aligned with Donald Trump. In fact, the new German leader made that pretty clear right away yesterday. There are things, especially on the foreign front, and especially in terms of the future of Europe, where they don't agree. So keep that in mind. Okay, before we get into our discussion with Janice Stein, the question for this week.

A reminder, answers in this week a little earlier than normal, and I'll explain this later in the week why it has to be earlier, but 3 o'clock Wednesday afternoon, Eastern Time, for your questions. So you can start getting them in today or tomorrow. 3 o'clock Eastern Time, Wednesday. Include your name, the location you're writing from. Keep the answers relatively short, please. One paragraph is what we're looking for. And you write to themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com.

themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. What is the question? I was grocery shopping like you guys do, in my case, over the weekend. And what's clear when you're grocery shopping these days is that most of the stores are giving you ample evidence as to where the products come from. And I guess it's not just groceries, it's other stores as well, hardware stores, clothing stores, appliance stores.

Canadian made, it usually comes off, or Canadian grown, it usually is very clear in the packaging. And just as clear is where the products are coming from south of the border. And I think it's fair to say that a lot of Canadians are making decisions about what they buy based on those So here's the question. When you're shopping and you see friends, relatives, acquaintances who are not looking at labels, how do you react? Are you okay with that? Everybody each their own? Or do you make a point of trying to say something? I want to try and understand the depth of this issue because there are a lot of people who feel very strongly about this product buying issue. So tell me what you think, what you do, what you see you see and actually if you're one of those people who

you know doesn't much care about where it comes from tell me why you're feeling that way why you're sticking to normal in effect in light of what's going on. All right, so there's your questions. It's kind of hazy and muddy, but you get it. Okay? Do you go along with Made in Canada labels? Are you turned off by Made in or Grown in America labels? Or not?

Tell me about that. There's your question of the week. Looking forward to seeing some of your answers. Okay, let's get into our discussion with Janice, because as I said, I think it's really interesting. So here she is, Dr. Janice Stein from the University of Toronto, Director of the Munk School, our weekly conversation. So Janice, I've been anxious to talk to you and I know our listeners have been anxious to hear from you because we know you've been on the other side of the world, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan.

On this side of the world, and I don't mean just North America but Europe as well, it has been a crazy last 10 days in terms of trying to sort out what the heck is going on with Donald Trump and some of the things he's saying that he's going to do. So my question to start things off is, are they as concerned about what Trump is up to on that side of the world as we are on this side of the world?

So interesting to be, the short answer is no, with the exception of Taiwan. Very interesting to be there as the story was unfolding, because they were reading the same news I was reading. And it was really striking, Peter, the difference in being in Asia as opposed to being in Europe or North America and watching all this. In a way, the trip, it was structured. We didn't know this in advance. The least concern in Japan.

Now, they're the most formal society of the three, so they're very contained. But confidence in Japan. And this is the Japan of Shinzo Abe, who managed to establish a very good relationship with Trump. Trump won. They are, the way they think about the world, it's what kind of deal can we make with Trump, Trump 1, they are, the way they think about the world, it's what kind of deal can we make with Trump 2?

And in all the discussions we had, and we met with government officials and journalists who are really knowledgeable, and that's where they were. It's clear. Go a little further to South Korea, that's already different because they're in the middle of a huge crisis of democracy themselves right now. And in the quieter moments, the concerns were very apparent. And then the last three and a half days in Taiwan, where the Halifax Security Forum took the forum to Taipei and we had a fair number of Canadians with us too dug in, grit

resolves, they see themselves as the Ukraine of Asia, there's no question about it and as they were watching, frankly, what I would describe as the betrayal of Ukraine unfold in real time, you could just see the stiffening of the spine. What did you make of the betrayal of Ukraine? I mean, in some ways, we've seen this coming, right? Yes. But when you suddenly are up against it and hearing it in the cold, hard reality of

both Trump and his defense secretary, it's still a stunner. It really is stunning. It is shocking. You know, you could put the following spin on it um you could i don't but you could um which is uh trump has been obsessed with ukraine since since since the first trump administration has nothing to do with the big security issues. It has everything to do with Hunter Biden and Joe Biden and that whole sad and sorry story. And when Zelensky didn't play ball with him over that issue,

he did not launch an investigation of Hunter Biden and Joe Biden. Well, that was it for Trump. And this is just a revenge story. Now, the reason I bring Joe Biden, well, that was it for Trump. And this is just a revenge story. Now, the reason I bring this up, Peter, and certainly there are people who think that way, even in Asia. If you think about it that way, it's less frightening

because it's a very specific history. And Trump doesn't have that history. You know, he doesn't have that history with us in Canada. He doesn't have that history in Asia. So that's a way of putting a frame around it and making it more manageable. I don't see it that way because this is the president of the United States.

And it's not only Pete Hegseth, his defense secretary. It's Marco Rubio, secretary of state, who's pleasing the boss. You know, Steve Wyckoff on Sunday was on the talk shows and said the Ukrainians are going to sign this deal on critical minerals. They're going to sign it. And that's because when they didn't sign it, President Trump told them what it would be like if they didn't sign it. And they are now going to sign it. frankly extortion and brutality um which goes beyond um anything i've ever seen anything and the signing of this the signing of this deal is basically payback yeah yeah and we're talking billions hereions and billions of dollars of access to probably one of Ukraine's biggest resources,

which is critical minerals, because we all know how valuable they are in the economy that we're going into. In exchange for nothing. Let's just understand. In exchange for nothing. No security guarantees. No future American aid of any kind. It is, in Trump's view of the world, a way of recouping the investments that the United States has made in Ukraine.

And again, for the record here, the United States is the biggest military donor to Ukraine because it has the kit, Europeans have given more in economic assistance than the United States has given. So I can't think of a precedent. I can't think of a precedent like this. You know, just to take us down a little rabbit hole for one minute here. You know, when Europeans talk about this, and this is much less meaningful for Asians again, because they have such a different frame, but the Europeans talk about Munich and appeasement

and the sellout of Czechoslovakia at that famous conference in 1938 between Neville Chamberlain and Adolf Hitler. It's a big difference here, Peter, which I think people are not paying enough attention to. Czechoslovakia had no army. That is not true about Ukraine. Ukraine has the most battle-hardened army in Europe now, and it is pretty self-sufficient.

It can manufacture a million drones a year. I think it's very important to understand Ukrainians are not going to give up on the fight, despite what Donald Trump does. You can imagine, Peter, the scene, there were Ukrainians that came to this forum in Taipei. That was deliberate, right? To kind of structure a conversation,

what did we learn from each other? And they were there, and they are decision makers. They were there as this was going down and it was hard sometimes to distinguish between what you heard from leaders like former president Tsai or president Lee who came to talk to the forum and the Ukrainians was, this war will go on. He respected. When you heard the Americans say yesterday that the Ukrainians will sign this deal.

Yeah. Did they say it in such a way that you believe that they think that's really true? Yeah. I think it's really true? Yeah. I think it's a blackmail. Well, I think that's what it is. Yeah, sure it is. But let me ask you this, because, you know, the Americans want that access

because they consider, as you said, that they have spent billions of dollars, have sent billions of dollars to ukraine to help them in their fight and they want that money back now when you listen to trump he believes that that canada is on the side of billions of dollars of u.s um you know trade access, that there's been an imbalance there. He also wants our critical minerals. Yes, he does. Is it too much of a stretch to think, even for a moment, that we're witnessing something play out on Ukraine

that we could end up witnessing play out with us? No, I don't think it's too much of a stretch. I don't think it's too much of a stretch. I don't think it's too much of a stretch. You know that famous hot mic that Justin Trudeau had at the summit of business leaders where he said this is serious.

The president takes this seriously. And one of the big assets is our critical minerals which are in the ground. And we don't we as you know are not fast at getting them out of the ground. But that's one of the big things that Trump actually

wants access to. So I don't think it's a stretch at all. You know, let's look at the different, well, why would Zelensky sign this, you ask yourself? Because it is. It's extortion. And it looks like he

is going to sign there in the final stages of renegotiating. And Steve Whitcoff, who is one of the more sober-minded guys around Trump, just because there's a long-standing friendship there, and he's not in the position of

constantly glorifying Trump in quite the same way, predicted that Zelensky will sign it this week. Very specific about it. So why would Zelensky do it? Well, to the extent those critical minerals are an asset for the United States,

that's a shield against a total Russian occupation. What's a weakness? Yeah. What's a weakness is a strength, right? At the same time. I think where we're totally different in Canada is there's zero chance that the Americans, whatever, even Trump, would use force against Canada.

He said that. So it's a form of economic pressure. And the question for Canadians will be how much economic pressure are we willing to withstand? How much economic pain are we willing to withstand? For Zelensky, the stakes are much, much, much higher. But I mean, that is what he's saying. That's what Trump is saying to Zelensky. He's not going to use military pressure.

Like he's not going to invade Ukraine. No, but the big difference is Ukraine still needs assets from the United States that nobody else can give him. Air supports, you know, intelligence assets that he gets, the access to Starlink from Elon Musk, those are critical assets. So if you're sitting in a presidential palace and you say, okay, I give these guys access to critical minerals,

you know, it's a completely extortionate I give these guys access to critical minerals. It's a completely extortionate bargain, but once they get that access, they then have a vested interest in securing that territory from any further Russian military action. We don't have to worry about that. That's the difference. How are the Russians going to react to that? Well, it's very interesting because in Trump's mind, it's not

that's not how he thinks about things. But this is really a double-edged sword. I don't think this is what the Russians would want, frankly. When you call it extortion or blackmail, does history give us any examples of this, any precedent to this kind of a situation? Oh, a ton, right? Peter, if you think about the whole colonial experience, when the Europeans went all over the world, what were they going for? They were going for resources. They occupied countries. They shipped for resources. They occupied countries.

They shipped the resources. They shipped human beings. Human beings were a resource. I mean, that's the origin of modern slavery. So this is an old pattern. We call it imperialism. That's what it is. You use force or the threat of force to extract resources from countries.

But extracting resources because you're basically conquering them is one thing. Extracting resources to pay back something you've given them is different. Yeah. Well, you know, this takes you without a difference in the end because you're pulling the resources. You understand what I mean here? The motives may be different, but the result is the same. I'm trying to think if there's a history of somebody extending loans or assistance and then the next, you know, the successor government coming in and say pay us back for everything.

That one's hard. I can't think of one like that. It's extraordinary. You know, we don't have categories, Peter. Everybody's jaws are just dropping in astonishment, frankly, as they're watching all this. Did anybody say, what's going on between you and Trump, like Canada and Trump? Well, you know, that's going on between you and Trump, like Canada and Trump?

Well, you know, that's really interesting, too, because in Japan and in Seoul, it was a small group of Canadians. But in Taipei, we had a significant group of Canadians with us. You know, former Chief of Defense Staff Wayne Ear was there. I've always had a very high regard for him. He's one of our most thoughtful CDS. He's a kind of thinking person, CDS. Just great to talk to. Canadians don't get attention in the world right now.

You know, they were all happy to see us. They kind of knew on the radar screen that we were having a hard time and one of our board members, because it was our whole board that took this trip together, is from Mexico. So there was a perfect opportunity

really to say to Canadians and the Mexican, well, how are you dealing with Trump? It's a struggle to push us to the top of the agenda, frankly. So there were questions like, what do you know about Trump? Can you share any knowledge of Trump? There were those kinds of questions. But it wasn't, you know, there wasn't more than a passing interest in Canada,

except in Taipei, except in Taipei, where there was. I want to go back to something you said about Japan. That of the three countries, was less concern yeah about Trump because they're transactional too it's deal making that matters to them yeah and if they see the possibility of a deal that's okay with them yeah is there something we can learn from that? Well, you know, I said that on purpose, Peter. I really did. And the Japanese prime minister has already been and had a good meeting with Trump. What they described as a very good meeting.

And came back and so lowered the temperature. Shinzo Abe is now the model for them as they think about this. And Shinzo Abe's wife, widow, because he was assassinated. She's an active force. She speaks out. And so it's very clear that the framework for Japan is a transactional framework.

And the questions, and so they were most diligent in asking us what we knew about Trump, how the negotiations had gone. And what was interesting with the Japanese, they put their finger on something and they asked, why did Gloria, Claudia rather, get the call first? That's the Mexican president.

Yes. And not you. What did they offer? What did they do differently that she got the call before Canada got the call? And that is a question worth asking. So then where there are some flexibilities. What we can do, and Canadians are not in the mood for this discussion, and I am well aware, Peter,

that's not where the public temper is, but we are going to have to have a very hard-nosed conversation where do we accommodate what can we give trump that will make him feel that he's gotten the wind that he's moved the needle that will not be fundamental to us i don't i think we have you know we have to start that conversation now frankly because that's where the asians are but tell me again why we have to do that simply because they're more powerful they have more people they have more money they have more military strength they have all those things because the old nice rules-based order is fondly in the rearview mirror and what you know what's so great about a rules-based or of any kind it protects the

less strong frankly that's the value of rules because strong don't need them they just do what they want anyway and the united states to some degree did that anyway frankly even in me but nothing nothing remotely like what we're seeing now. So, you know, the concerning thing to me is that Trump doesn't have to do much more to Canada than he's already done. He's already inflicted damage. And where's that damage? Foreign investors are taking a second look, right? And they're asking themselves the question, well, why invest in Canada unless there's a huge benefit?

Let's just invest in the United States and remove the uncertainty. The Canadian business community is also involved in this, frankly, although they don't talk about it out loud, is also involved in the same calculation and saying, let's just move behind the tariff wall. Let's move our businesses, or at the very least, open one business. Every time a decision like that is made, it harms the Canadian economy and the future of the Canadian economy, which is struggling.

Well, tell me why on this then. If we're in a sense going to fold in some fashion to Trump in some areas to try and cut a deal, if we're going to do that, are we not also folding to Putin at the same time? I mean, the things Trump is saying about Putin now and willing to give Putin now, these are not things that we'd be willing to do. No. One assumes.

No, no. You know, let's talk for a second about the Trump-Putin relationship. There were, as I said, Europeans at the conference, and the Japanese know the Russians very well, too. And this is speculation. I suppose evidence. This is just speculation. The speculation was Trump-Putin negotiations are going to go on, and in the final analysis Putin will say

no and that people are reading him wrong that he will say no because he thinks he can outlast Trump Trump is erratic Putin doesn't Putin really only wants one thing

from the United States right now. One thing. That's all. To lift the sanctions. Because the Russian economy is really struggling. It is truly struggling. There's no question. You know, the interest rate is 21%.

Just imagine. Canadians would take to the streets of Central if we were paying 21% interest. That's what they're paying in Russia right now. Inflation is high and growing. Here's the great irony. Trump is doing this at exactly the wrong moment.

He's doing this and that's what Putin wants from him. If he doesn't get that, the speculation is he'll walk away. But he'll extract every concession he can from Trump along the way. So it's not a foregone conclusion in the end of it all, Peter. But you're right that Trump's transactional approach to politics is so different from virtually every European country from us. But we and Mexico, Canada and Mexico need the United States for economic reasons more than anybody else.

And Ukraine and Europe need the United States for security more than anyone else. But you make it sound like Trump is the guy at the poker table with all the aces. With many, most of them. Yep, that's true. That's accurate. He is. He is the United States, so powerful.

It's got the most dynamic innovative economy in the world it's got the best technology in the world it's got the best military machine in the world it has you know it has military assets no other country in europe can even match they've underinvested just like we did with the exception of Poland. Well, how far is Poland going to take us standing alone against this, right? So what's the point in all this patriotism

and pride that's exhibited in Canada? We're going to stand up and defend it. Harper saying the things he's said, which are very strong in defense of Canada's position, much stronger than Polyev's position. Much stronger, by the way. What's the point in all this stuff?

I think it's very important because, and let's go back to the way you just put it. You said if we're going to fold, anyway, and I said if we're going to make some concessions, anyway. It's a little bit of difference there, right? Yes, there's some things we are going to give up in order to make Trump feel that he's gone. I mean, let me give you an example, and this will probably set every one of our listeners on fire. Supply management on dairy.

Oh, good luck with that. Yeah, exactly. That's the hottest political issue. We know how hot it is, but that's squarely in his sights, right? And there's a bunch of other stuff on the list, too, which would be equally inflammatory. But that is a choice we have to make as Canadians. Do we want to have continued access to the U.S. market?

And are we going to preserve supply management on dairy? Is that going to be more important to us than having access to the U.S. market? That's a fair conversation to have in this country, frankly. So there's a list like that, Peter, that's coming. But patriotism really matters because it helps us. It's really important. It helps us define this is a line we're not going to cross.

For example, let me give you a for example. And, you know, this is going to come. Do we restrict? Do we continue to restrict foreign ownership, the stake of banks that can be foreign owned in Canada? That's

what we do now. The Americans don't do that. TD's all over. Anybody who goes to the United States, TD, and they use TD and they don't know it's Toronto Dominion. But that's what it is. It's TD.

And so where do you draw that line? Well, if you've got to compare banking systems, if you have to compare banking systems, you'd much rather have ours than theirs. Yeah, well, that's right. But do you want to have ours with no foreign ownership and have tariffs? I mean, that's where we're going to go. I guess that's where we're heading.

And we, you know, that's why I am anxious for us to get a government that is going to get ready. Because, again, being in Asia, they're all over this stuff now. They're already in that conversation right we gotta take a break but I'll I will you know I've kept meaning

the last week or two to use this phrase about patriotism and you know you know patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel yeah well no I don't agree with that. I know you have to take a break, but just before, you know, at the Halifax Forum in Taipei, there was a hockey game going on, which was Friday morning in Taipei during the sessions. Well, let me tell you, the number of phones that were going, both on the American side, because we had, I don't know,

the Canadian side was unbelievable. And you could see, you could see patriotism on both sides. People were fired up on both sides. That quote, by the way, is 250 years old. Almost exactly now from, what was his name? Samuel Johnson? Yes. Poet, author. Anyway, enough on that. I want to totally change the topic here because we haven't heard you on this subject and we need to hear

what your take is it relates to trump again but it's about the middle east and you know what it's about and we'll get to it right after this and welcome back you're listening to to the Monday episode of The Bridge. I mean, Dr. Janice Stein is back with us after a week traveling on the other side of the world. Director of the Monk School at the University of Toronto. You're listening on Sirius XM, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. Glad to have you with us.

Okay, so Donald Trump says about two weeks ago, just as you left, that he basically wants Gaza. Give me Gaza. I'm going to build Trump Tower or Trump Beach or Trump Resort or whatever it is he's going to do. And he tells what Jordan and Egypt, you take the palestinians get them out of here and i'm taking over that property and he says this while he's sitting next to netanyahu basically doesn't say anything he was stunned which i didn't know about before it was either

stunned or he was complicit but one or the other um what you know and then since then there have been all kinds of other shiny balls put out there so we don't talk about the Gaza plan what do you make of that was that a one-off was that a one-day wonder or yeah goodness it's a one-day wonder and it's gone all right and it's gone yeah it's gone it's gone um and it's gone because of the pushback from, they push back Egyptians and the Jordanians. They push back really hard. And frankly, even Trump said, well, I guess that's not going to work. It's a balance. And as we're talking, Peter, we're in the middle of a process, very interesting, where the Arab world mobilized. That plan was so shocking to the Egyptians and the Jordanians.

Who took the lead? Mohammed bin Salman. And organized a conference and said, how many billions of dollars are we in the Gulf going to put on the table? Who's going to put troops in Gaza as a transition for the next two or three years? And where do we find some technocratic Palestinians? What are technocratic Palestinians? Palestinians who are not Hamas, clearly,

but also not openly identified with the Palestine Authority in the West Bank so that there is a facade that the Palestine Authority is not in fact responsible for civilian governments. There's new elements in there, but not enough probably to get it over the line. Because here's where there is a consensus between Trump, Netanyahu, and the Gulf States. They want Hamas gone, with the exception of Qatar. So the Emirates and the Saudis who are going to pay for this want Hamas gone because they see Hamas as a threat to them as well as to Israel.

They're meeting, put all those assets on the table. They're consulting, meeting again next week with a sense of urgency. That's what Trump does. Galvanizes everybody by the chaos he creates. I could use the word craziness. But he does. It was moving at a snail's pace

before this. And all of a sudden there's a tremendous sense of urgency. They're going to meet again. And they're going to go back to Steve Whitickoff now with an operational plan uh will it be enough probably not but it's a much better start than we've had before you know i'll tell you what i mean i thought it was nuts when when said it, and for all the right reasons, I thought it was crazy. But there's also part of me, a small part,

I just want to underline that before I get all the letters you usually get, that I thought, you know what, for a hundred years, or for hundreds of years, but certainly for the last hundred, for generations that preceded us and will come after us, we're missing one of the most glorious, beautiful parts of the world. Some of that Middle East real estate, if you will.

Whether it's along the Mediterranean, I mean, there's a reason Beirut is called the Paris of the Middle East. Oh, beautiful. whether it's along the Mediterranean. I mean, there's a reason Beirut is called the Paris of the Middle East. Oh, beautiful. Because it's gorgeous. But so are a lot of other places in the Middle East that, you know, I can remember sitting in a remote part of the shoreline of the Dead Sea and saying, you know, if this was anywhere else in the world,

it would be condos all along here. There would be people enjoying this. It's gorgeous. It's beautiful. Not just for the scenery and the water and all that, but for what's grown in those areas. And the history. And the history.

Yeah. So, I mean, when I heard him say that, that was in a small part of my mind, remembering how I felt when I've been there and what we're missing, what the world is missing. You know, listen, I'm going to say in a small part of my mind, for a hundred years, we've had this conflict, right? People ask me all the time well what's the road

to peace i mean journalists who don't want to think about the middle east will say that to me what's the road to peace and i have to say there isn't one right this has been going on for a hundred years and actually this is one of the worst moments we've ever had if you look at what's going on peter you radicalize two populations and the way you've radicalized the Palestinian population in Gaza and the Israeli population, you just take those release of hostages where they're doing it on a stage

designed to humiliate. That's usually the kind of activity that's designed to provoke, frankly, and the Israelis themselves are engaging in in activities that are also and so this is the lowest ebb we've had in certainly in in 30 years the worst and all in comes trump and rattles everybody's cage and forces them out of the ritual, I support the two-state solution.

As you say it, you know it's impossible. It's a wonderful Canadian reflex. I support the two-state solution. Great talking points for any minister. Because it shuts down the conversation. This is not going to happen. They all know it. But it's a safe thing to say, let's just move on. Well, he blew it up.

He blew it up and he's bounced the ball to the governments in the Middle East. And it's on them now to come up with some much more creative solutions than we've had in the past. You know, Steve Witkoff was, and I think he's the most, he's the best of them. Let me put it that way. He's the most pragmatic. You know, Marco Rubio was kissing the ring in the last few days. And Steve Witkoff said, oh, look, we're going to extend the ceasefire. I'm going to the Middle East.

We're going to extend this ceasefire. I'm going to the Middle East. We're going to extend the ceasefire. Whether you call an extension of phase one, we're going to extend this ceasefire. And boy, you could hear it in his voice. This president does not want this war to start again. You know, it's funny you mentioned Rubio because I've never been a Rubio fan, quite frankly. But I've watched him over this last week and in the different meetings he's in and the overseas meetings he's in.

He does not look like a guy who's convinced, like the others, like the Hegseths and those guys. They drank the Kool-Aid a long time ago. Rubio does not look like he's believing what he's sitting in front of and dealing with. I agree with you. I don't give him a very long tenure in the job, frankly.

He does not. And that's the reason I distinguished Rubio from Steve Witkoff, because he is a long-time confident. There's a long-time friendship there with Donald Trump. And he's

secure in that friendship. So he feels he's got a greater capacity to speak. He's credible in the region because people know he speaks for Trump. And when he comes back and he speaks to Trump, there's a better relationship there to push back. And he, you can see, I mean i again i look at body language

all the time when i can watch it i watch the body language there's a determination there people you know everybody right now in the middle east is saying this this this ceasefire is due uh we got what we could get out of it was an exchange of hostageures. We're never going to phase two. Everybody's going back to war. What they're not factoring in there is Donald Trump does not want. He's a man of peace. He's gunning for the Nobel Prize, this one. He does not want this war to start again. And they're going to go back to the region and they're going to stare people

down in a way frankly that the Biden people were far too nice to do. Tony Blinken didn't behave like that. All there's little doubt that they're putting the screws to everybody they sit across the table.

They are including the Prime Minister of Israel. Let's just understand that. Okay. All right, we're going to wrap it for today. We're glad to have you back on this side of the world, but we know these next few days are going to be ones where you're trying to beat the jet lag. So good luck with that.

And we'll talk a week from now. Thanks, Janice. See you next week, Peter. Dr. Janice Stein, University of Toronto, Director of the Munk School. And as always, we thank her for her time. She's great. And I know how much you enjoy her.

Because she gets your mind thinking. She doesn't expect you're going to agree with everything she says. Keep that in mind. But she does, like I do, like the fact that we talk about these issues and we think about them. Okay, a couple of things to mention. You heard the question of the week at the beginning of this program. So if you missed it for some reason, go back and listen at the beginning of the podcast and you will hear the question of the week at the beginning of this program. So if you've missed it for some reason,

go back and listen to the beginning of the podcast and you will hear the question of the week. Deadline this week is 3 PM Eastern time on Wednesday. And that's basically because the agenda I've got this week, it's crazy. Starting with tomorrow, smoke mirrors and the truth with Bruce Anderson and Fred Delorey. That's one liberal, one conservative on some of the events of the week, starting with tonight's liberal leadership campaign leadership debate. That'll be interesting to watch because the first time we've seen them all on stage together and, you know, one assumes going at each other on the differences between them.

There's four left in the race, and there's, what, two weeks left in the race. Later this week, Ontario election. We'll talk about that a little bit tonight, too, as Fred Delorey is working on the Doug Ford campaign, and we'll talk about how that's going. My schedule this week, after we do the show tomorrow morning, I fly up to Ottawa because I've got an event there on Wednesday I have to deal with, and then I'm off to Petawawa, the forces base of Petawawa, which is home base for at least part of CANSOFCOM,

the Special Operations Force, the Canadian forces. And I'm the honorary colonel of that force, and I'm proud to be the honorary colonel. I've seen them in operation in Afghanistan, and I've written about them in one of my books, and they're quite the operation, and I have a lot of respect for the men and women who are in CansovCon. So I'll be up at Petawal on Thursday and Friday for that. So it's a busy week. And that was our encore edition of The Bridge for this week.

Thanks so much for joining us. We'll be back with our new live edition tomorrow on your turn.