The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Encore Presentation - Black History Month -- A Feature Interview With Marci Ien

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

Today an encore presentation of an episode that originally aired on February 13th. Marci Ien made her name as a Canadian television journalist anchoring some of CTV's most important programs. Today she's a federal cabinet minister responsible for women and gender equality. She was born in Toronto of Trinidadian descent. Today a feature interview with Marci Ien about her path as a Black Canadian and how she reflects on Black History month.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge, and the latest episode of The Bridge is an Encore episode, because this is Wednesday, Encore Wednesday. You may recall back in February of this year, Black History Month, we had a special guest, Marcy Ian. Now, I'm sure you know that name, because Marcy Ian was a very well-known Canadian broadcaster for quite a few

years. Then she decided to try politics and that's where she is now, a cabinet minister, but somebody who is always concerned about the issues that surround Black History Month. So we're going to go back half a year and we're going to look at Black History Month one more time on this Encore Wednesday. Here's our interview with Marcy Ian. And hello there, Peter Vansbridge here in Stratford, Ontario. Tuesday here on The Bridge, Feature Interview Day, and today's feature interview deals with the subject of Black History Month.

I'll tell you all about it and who our special guest is in just a moment. All right, the subject of the day today is Black History Month. Now, Black Canadians have had an impact on this country for more than 400 years, since the 1600s. Having said that, the role of black people in their communities in Canada has been largely ignored. Little mention of it when you go through the history books that we used to have at school. Certainly my generation. I can't recall it ever coming up. In 1978, the Ontario Black History Society, the OBHS, was established. Now, the founders presented a petition to the city of Toronto to have February formally proclaimed as Black History Month. So in 1979, within a year,

the first ever Canadian proclamation was issued by Toronto. The first Black History Month in Nova Scotia, where there is a great deal of black history, was observed in 1988. And later it was renamed African Heritage Month. In 1993, the Ontario Black History Society successfully filed a petition in Ontario to proclaim February as Black History Month.

Following that success, the idea was introduced of having a Black History Month recognized across Canada. The first black Canadian woman, Jeanne Agustin, Canada. The first black Canadian woman, John Augustine, was elected to Parliament. In December 1995, the House of Commons officially recognized February as Black History Month across Canada, following a

motion introduced by Dr. Augustine. The House of Commons carried the motion unanimously. So, Black History Month is not new. It's been around now for some time. You know, a generation and a half at least. But has it made a difference yet? Are we more aware of our country's black history? Do black Canadians feel more like their history is recognized as part of the country's history?

Well, we're going to get to some of those questions today with our feature interview. And I think it's best, well, let me tell you who it is, first of all. Okay, because no stranger to you. If you've watched television in Canada over the last, whatever, 20, 30 years, then the name Marcy Ian should be no surprise to you. Marcy Ian was a long-time anchor at CTV in the news business. She was a reporter first and then an anchor. That's a path that's taken by most

anchors these days. They establish their journalistic credentials, first of all, as reporters, and then work their way into the studio. Marcy Inn was the longtime face of the news on Canada AM at CTV. Then she went to the social as one of the hosts. Popular figure, award-winning, all of that.

And for some crazy reason, she said, whoa, I'm going to get into politics. And she did. And she's a two-time representative for the Liberal Party

in a downtown Toronto riding. And after the last election, she was promoted into cabinet. So this person who was on the national stage as a television news anchor is now on the national stage as a federal cabinet minister. But our feature interview today is not about politics. Kind of peripherally a little bit, but it's not that. It's not one of these sort of accountability political interviews. There's enough going on in politics right now, and we've dealt with a lot of it on this program,

and we will in the days ahead. I mean, the Arrive Can app business is certainly a major story this week, the scandal of the week, if you will. We'll get to that on Friday on Good Talk with Chantel and Bruce. But today is not about that. Today's discussion, today's interview is about the issue surrounding Black History Month and how it affects one individual, and in this case, it's Marcy Ian. So I don't want to interrupt the interview,

so let's get our first break out of the way, our only break for the rest of this program. We'll get that out of the way right now, and then when we come back, we'll get into our interview with Marcy Ian, who is the Minister for Women and Gender Equality and Youth, if you're wondering what her cabinet position is. That'll come up a little bit in the interview. But as I said, this isn't about politics.

This is, for a lot of people, a much more important issue. Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and then when we come back, our feature interview with Marcy Yen. Back right after this. And welcome back. Peter Mansbridge here. This is The Bridge for this Tuesday, Feature Interview Day. Marcy Ian is our feature interview on the issue of Black History Month. You're listening on Sirius XM, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite

podcast platform. Whatever platform you choose, we're glad to have you with us on this day. All right, enough from me. Let me get this interview with Marcien going right now. Minister, you were born in 1969, so you started schooling in the 70s. How much of a deal was Black history in the schools you went to in those early years? It wasn't, Peter, at all. I didn't see myself as a kid. And I remember it was grade two. I was seven years old. I had a teacher. Her name was Ms. Kerr. And she made the difference for me because she realized I didn't see myself in the curriculum. I remember her getting special books. I remember her taking her time. And she was an absolute inspiration.

I actually have thanked her and continue to thank her because she saw me when others didn't. And I was in a school, I grew up in Scarborough. So this is public school in Scarborough and so much diversity. Yet what we saw in what we were being taught, there was no black history at all. You would think, well, black people in this country didn't have a part at all in the history of it. And there's something very psychological to deal with when you think you're not part of the country that you're in. As a Canadian kid, black kid, I thought, well, you know, where do I belong? And that's where my parents came in, but at school,

there was nothing. Well, I'm going to get to your parents in a minute. Cause your, your dad was a, was a figure in the Canadian, in the Toronto education system, right? I mean, he was, he understood stuff. But first of all, I just want to clarify one thing about your, the class. You said it was a very diverse school, diverse class. So you weren't alone as a person of color, a student of color in your class. No, no, no, I was not. In fact, when I think back to it, I was probably among the majority.

It was that diverse. And I literally grew up on a street where it looked like the United Nations, and our public school reflected that. But in the classroom, it didn't reflect that. No, in the classroom, it absolutely did not reflect that. Wow. It's so hard to imagine today, right, that it was like that then. I mean, it's not that long ago. We're talking, you know, 40, 45, 50 years ago. So when you would go home, would this ever come up when you talked to your dad? I mean, he was what? He was a teacher and a principal, a school superintendent. So he, you know, he was in some ways, well, I guess it would be unfair to say he was responsible for the curriculum, but he oversaw it. He oversaw it.

And this is before amalgamation. So my dad's schools were mostly in the former North York. And so that, it was a little different. And he was trailblazing himself. But he was also one to come into a school and say, so what are you doing? How can we do this better as a parent, as a parent? And I tend to do that now as a parent took my dad's lead. But he would discuss that. And there were principals and administrators that knew my my my parents on a first name basis because they would visit now and again and say, so how are we doing this?

And why can't my kid see herself or my kids? I have an older sister in the curriculum. And I guess that's where I learned to ask questions and good ones because they asked a lot of questions. And sometimes, Peter, that meant maybe a display in the school library that wasn't going to be there before to learn about black history in Canada. Sometimes it didn't go anywhere. But I saw my parents stand up and that meant everything. When did it start to change for you? Probably in high school.

I remember being in a grade 11 history class and we were delving into black history. I believe it was during Black History Month. And it was all about American icons. It was all Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Sojourner Truth, all of these. And I remember saying to my teacher, we're in Canada, what about Canada? And we had a conversation about that.

And to his absolute credit, we dug into places like North Preston and Nova Scotia and Buxton and Hamilton and London, Ontario and downtown Toronto. He was a teacher that welcomed discussion. and I appreciated that. And so it changed and it changed because he said, you're right. Let's look at that. And so it started to change there. He welcomed the conversation. We all learned so very much. And then, you know, back to my dad who said, it's never about one month. It's about 365 days a year and that it is really Canadian history. It isn't just black history. And so Peter, high school, but all through elementary, didn't see it at all.

Did you find that the non-black students in the class, well, no, let's be blunt, the white students in the class, did they embrace this change, this move towards understanding the history of others? Yeah, you know, they did. And I was thinking of one kid in particular, I think his name was Rick, that was sitting right in front of me. And we ended up having excellent conversations. You know what it was too, Peter? They didn't know. People just, we just didn't know. We didn't know how rich the history was. And it's interesting when knowledge

is shared and you go in depth and you do research, what you can find, but that's just it. This is why there's still some people who think, well, black people didn't make any sort of contribution to this country. I mean, what really now? You know, it's a nice to have, but, you know, what difference? And it's because there is this lack of knowledge and shared knowledge. And that's a huge, huge issue. so in that class yes in that small class of 15 or 20 we got into some things that we had never seen before because that teacher cared enough to do that and open up that conversation the lack of knowledge thing is you know i mean it's obviously you know still there today i mean my son worked on the film black ice that was done here in Canada.

Oh my gosh. What a great film. It's a great film, but there was so much in there. I had no idea of, you know, I like to think I kind of know Canadian history, but I sure didn't know that. No, I learned so much too. The slap shots, Afrikville and what was going on with those hockey teams and the innovation and the perseverance. Nobody wanted them, but they did their thing and they were excellent. But that history and what those brothers uncovered and what your son, I'm sure, helped to uncover on that.

It was extraordinary. There was a lot I didn't know. And I lived in Nova Scotia for a while, and I didn't know that. So it's that knowledge and continuing to uncover it, but wanting to uncover it. And that's another thing, too, wanting to know more. Where are we now on understanding Black history? I mean, we've moved on from just in the schools. We're trying to educate in other ways, and film is one of them. But where are we as a country in trying to under, I mean,

we're still having trouble understanding Indigenous history. Exactly. And those two histories are joined in many ways, Indigenous communities and Black communities. There's a lot there history is even important. I look at this, and I'm sad to say it, but I think there are so many, in fact, I know so many divisions right now. I look at diversity and inclusion in institutions, and I see that they're being phased out, or others would have them phased out because we are under the assumption that there's a level playing field and there is not. And until there is one, there is a need to know this history.

There is a need to understand communities, various communities and where they come from and frankly understand white privilege what's the level playing field 11 play here's oh here's well why don't i tie that into the white privilege part of this okay it means that we all have a fair shot so So, I had a friend who said to me once, listen, I'm white. I come from a single parent household. My mom raised me, raised my brother. We came from a poor neighborhood. my way and fight my way and try to shatter ceilings what is this thing about white privilege because I was anything but and I said to her if we both show up at an interview same backgrounds and you for example are from Jane and Finch I'm from Scarborough white privilege means you get through the door and you get through the door

because of the color of your skin it gives you a pass if I go to that door same background maybe it's a single parent family and all of those things, I may not get that opportunity. And that is what privilege is. It's not about economics and backgrounds. It's the privilege of being white and being able to access places regardless of income, regardless of background.

And that is not the case for black people, diverse people, indigenous people, a lot of the time. So level playing field means we both go to the door and we have a fair shot. Have things improved though? Like, I mean, things are better now. So much is, is better. I mean, each generation, it gets better. My parents, you know, shared so many stories about the things that they encountered. They came here to go to school in the 60s, and my dad was a porter.

He had to have a couple of jobs just to pay for his education and sustain himself and my mom as well. And so I look at where we are now. The fact that I could have had the career or I did have the career that I did in broadcasting and the fact that I am where I am now means progress. And there are others before me. So yes, but that doesn't mean we can take our foot off the gas pedal. That doesn't mean we don't still have to have conversations like this. It doesn't mean we don't have to push and it doesn't mean that we don't share in an honest way as to what it feels like, what life is like, and how we can all do better. And that's where allyship comes in because nobody can do this work alone.

I want to talk about that in a second, but let me just ask you one question about yourself and your kind of background and how you've encountered white privilege, how you've encountered racism. I mean, people look at you and see a very successful, you know, young Canadian through university, through the media landscape, reach the highest levels. You go into politics. You win. You're in cabinet.

But, you know, you've been very successful, but can you say at the same time, yeah, I have, and I've worked hard to get to where I am, but things have happened along the way. Absolutely. And, um, you have said it so correctly, Peter. Uh, So there are a couple of things here. There are instances during my career where I felt passed over. Can I sit here and say to you, well, it's race-based? No. Did it feel that way to me sometimes? Yes. Did I put pressure on myself? And I did this because I knew that I was in spaces and just to make sure I had things right, in my head it was, I've got to be better.

I've got to be better than most because I can't afford to make a mistake. Because if I make a mistake, that means that that might block somebody who's coming up next. That's a lot of pressure. And I put that on myself. I still put that on myself. But that's what happens when you're an only in situations and you're trying to not only crash ceilings, but break down doors, not just for you, but for our community. And it's been like that for me for 30-something years. And it is something that I embrace, but is it hard? Absolutely. And when I make decisions, I think about journalism and that career, but most certainly the one on politics. It wasn't just about me. It was OK. I don't know that I'm entirely comfortable with this.

This isn't anything I ever wanted because I didn't ever want to be a politician. But what will this mean for community? What will this mean for kids? What kind of dreams can they now have? And that weighed a lot into the decision to be in this sphere. So all of it, not easy, never easy, but glad to be here. You know, I can remember on this issue of the pressure that it puts on one to be the only or the first. I remember talking to an Indigenous woman who was a surgeon in British Columbia, northern BC, and the only surgeon or the first surgeon of her type um to uh in terms of surgery

the first first indigenous surgeon in that role and she talked about you know always being described that way as a first and she said people never understood nor do they today how much pressure that puts on you because it's not just about you it's about all those who follow you if you fail that's going to hit and hurt the next person along the way and that's right that's right and it's not fair by any standard no that anybody be judged differently it's like okay you're you messed up no one else is coming, but that's the feeling, right? It's, it's okay. I've got to represent well, because I'm representing so many people and I want others to have this opportunity. It's not about being first. It's who's second, who's 10th, who's 25th. And it's that,

it's that conversation. And she is absolutely right. And that's the lived experience. You talked about allies, and it's become this thing on trying to, you know, deal with black, you know, anti-black racism, that you need allies, that you've got to search out allies. Well, you're now, you know, in a very different field than you were in the media. You're in politics and creating allies outside of your own party can be a really hard thing but on on this issue do you do you search out allies like on the other side of the house in other aisles you know no matter your differences on other issues on this issue you can be allies oh absolutely and so here's the thing and this is when you don't know because i'm still a new politician it's been a couple years and yes but still learning a lot of things and the first thing i did was reach out to my so-called critics

um and there's an allyship there we may may be on different sides, on different benches, but I have everybody on speed dial, and they have my number, and we meet, and we talk, and it's important. And frankly, it's what Canadians want to see. It's working together. And yes, the allyship is there. And I'm glad that it is. But that doesn't mean when I walk into the House of Commons

and walk by pictures on walls and really don't see myself ever, that that isn't chilling sometimes. There's allyship, but at the same time, I feel like an outsider. And it's something that I almost have to prepare myself for every time I'm in Ottawa. And I need to be really honest about that. It's not easy to go in spaces and places and not see yourself, but it's getting better. And I sometimes think with all respect to our forefathers,

and I will be very frank about that too, apart from Jean-Sylvain, our forefathers, and I will be very frank about that too, apart from Jean Sauvé, our forefathers, we need other pictures on those walls. Is it any better in politics than it was in the media, or has one progressed further than the other, the field of politics versus media? Such a great question because people wondered why I was even making this move into politics because they saw what sometimes was hurled at me as a reporter or as a host.

And they would look at, for example, my social media and say, have you lost your mind? We see the hate that comes your way and now you're getting into politics. That is the worst possible decision you could ever make because it's going to be 15, 20, 50 times worse. I can't say one is better than the other, but in this place, I'm at a table. I'm able to put forward my lived experience, my journey, my skill set that hasn't always been there. I'm able to work with my colleagues and again, bring my light lived experience to things. And that's important. I'm able to help create policy.

So is one better than the other? No. But do I feel that I can affect change and have? Yeah. I want to talk about the intersection of your, your main job in cabinet, the minister of women and gender equality. You know, I think we all can agree. There's a lot of work to do on, on that. But one of the to do on that. But one of the most recent issues that has come up is the inequity on maternal health in terms of black women versus white women.

And the racism that they experience, the black women, in the health care system, as well as the medical data that shows higher complications during pregnancy. How do you address that issue, and how quickly can you address it on the federal level? Well, first and foremost, we have to have data, and we have to track these numbers. And right now, to my knowledge, we don't. So we don't have, and this is what I've learned, and this is where the journalistic part of me comes in. How do you know where you're going if you don't know, as I put, who you're serving or what your goals are without data?

And so first and foremost, and we can do this better as a government, understand the numbers. How many black women? What are these experiences? What is happening to them in medical spheres? It is important. It is also important to look at who we are as a country right now. So if this were to be seen as some sort of fringe issue or peripheral issue,

it's not the case when you look at the numbers and who we are and what Canada looks like. So it's important to make sure that we have the data because data drives policy, and I know that. So first and foremost, it's can we please have the numbers on Black women, their experiences with the health care system? I would also say our provincial partners need to do the same. That's not happening because this has got to be an all of government approach in its health.

So this is a provincial sphere as well. But we've got to do better with that. We absolutely absolutely do. But I have to tell you, in reading the same stories, and here comes my Bella. Sorry. Quick cuddle.

Sorry, Boca. I would think that we've got to take this seriously. And these stories and the women telling them and having the courage to tell them is so important because that's also what puts things on the radar. And so this is the work that has to be done. This is happening. And we need to know just how pervasive it is so that we can bring in policies that we can work with partners to make this better. I mean, it's one thing to get your attention on these issues and clearly those who are concerned about it have got your attention, but then you've got

to get the attention, one assumes,, your others around the cabinet table, that's not like there's no other issues out there right now. There's all kinds of stuff, especially facing this government and the, you know, in where it is in its term. So did they listen when you bring this up? Yes.

Yes. And, and that's the thing. And these are the things that people can't see you know there's cabinet privilege and all these things but um i i my voice at the table i who i am and what i brought there there's some respect there and i so appreciate that and i so respect my colleagues yes they do and and so does the prime minister yes and so I've seen things change I've seen um and heard when I put

things forward how action has been taken and and this I know you're absolutely right. We're in hard times right now. There are a lot of decisions to be made, a lot of things on the table, but that doesn't mean that this can't be brought forward. And that doesn't mean that people won't listen and that work can't be done. We can walk and chew gum at the same time and we need to. But you'd think if you need data, more data. Yeah, we definitely do. But you'd think that that would be something that you could get approved, right? I mean, everything costs money.

Everything costs money, it's true, and yes. I mean, I look back to the pandemic and just the lack of data there, right? There's a lot we didn't know, and there's a lot that came up. And if there ever were lessons to be learned about data and who was being impacted, boy, did we ever learn them there? And so, yeah, I mean, it is the data and it's something that we will be discussing and we'll be discussing in a more fulsome way because we see the inequity and the inequity in the healthcare system and the stories that have been brought forward are valid and need to be listened to and change needs to come. And, you know, that's all I can really do, Peter, is be an advocate and push and engage with my colleagues. But I do see that that works. You know, I was thinking as we were

talking about former Justice Minister David Lamedi, and one of the first things that we did together was a ban on conversion therapy. I literally just got there. And it was the first thing that we worked on. And he was so open with why he wanted to do this. He had heard from people in committee, people that had gone through conversion therapy. And he said, no, no, no, we we've got to actually tighten this up. We can make this better. So we actually went back, made it better and stronger because of who he listened to. And so things can get done and there is allyship between cabinet. There's so many other examples examples but that's a big one

um you've been extremely generous with your time appreciate that let me let me circle back to the the overall sort of issue in front of us which is black history month um one of the ways of you know ensuring that people understand history is to tell the story around certain people certain figures in our past who've had an impact uh not only on their community but on their country um and so we could all sit here and list off some names, but I want to look into, I want to look forward to kind of like to the future. Who are the next generation going to look back on from today's black Canadians who are, are making a difference in their country?

I'm sure you must know of a few. I do know of a few I first and foremost in thinking about Kayla Gray because we work together and when Kayla Gray sat at the TSN desk and became the first black woman to co-host well host actually that day uh sports center that was a deal. And I bring up her name because I was able to, and I'm sure she'd say the same mentor Kayla in many ways. And I know her story and I know how hard she pushed. And I almost felt like I was, she was my younger self in many ways, but I was able to mold her in a different way. And I kept saying, do all the things I didn't do. It doesn't matter that you're young.

You have a skill set. Push. Don't sit back. I found my voice a little later than I wanted to. You know, in an immigrant family, you know, my dad, it was always just don't rock the boat too, too you have to sometimes but don't rock it too too much and plus you want that pension because you want the pension right you want the pension you don't want to be kicked out you work hard so you push where you need to and the fact of the matter is is that i could have pushed a lot harder and and didn't until maybe a little later.

And with Kayla, with the Brandon Gones of the world, with the Amanda Paris of the world. I mean, there's so I just say push, break down every door and you can. And the work, the work is the proof. And there are excellent young people. They take no prisoners. I'm thinking of Brandon Gones in particular, because Brandon had a great job. Brandon had a great job. He was doing very, very well. And he left at a time when people said, are you absolutely off your rocker? And he said, there's something about this digital space. I think I want to do something in this digital space. And I think I want to present information in a different way. And I think I can do it. And he has any more than has. And there are so many others. I tried to dissuade my daughter

from getting into journalism, but the fact of the matter is is that she is a second year journalism student, Peter, and I see in her fire, even though she sees the layoffs, the mass layoffs, and she sees the industry and everything that it is now,

she still thinks that she can make a difference in this, but she still thinks that she will thrive, not just survive and that she will leave her mark. She still is trying to hone her writing and do all of these things and make sure that her interviews are sharp. And I look at her and I think wow okay you are hopeful so I don't have any reason not to be you are the future everybody I just named and there's so many others they have hope and they're just they're doing things differently they're doing it their way and I like it I like it a lot you know um the landscape of the business we both used to be in. Yeah.

And we've only been gone a few years. It's so different now. The challenges, as you mentioned, you know, the layoffs in all platforms, it seems, and it's terrible. But there will always be a place for journalists who are great storytellers. And whether that storytelling is involves investigative pieces or just general pieces great storytellers will always survive and are are needed and you were a great storyteller and uh you're now faced with a whole different challenge and

we wish you luck and i really appreciate the time you've taken to us. It's an honor to be with you. And I have to tell you, and this is just an aside, my parents, my dad in particular, absolutely loves you. He's not so well right now, so I'm not going to use that, but he loves you, bought me books and said, this is what you need to do. Like, this is the, this is the blueprint. So I'm just letting you know that just letting you know that that just letting you know, this is the blueprint, Marcy. This is what you do. If you want to be successful in, in this journalism career of yours,

this is what you do. This is who you follow. So it's an absolute honor, honor to be with you. Hard to talk to you, especially on this subject. And I know you're trying hard to make a difference and we wish you luck on that. Thank you very much. Stay well. Okay. Yeah, you too. Okay. Marcy Ian, the Minister for Women and Gender Equality. The topic, not politics.

I drifted a little bit into it at times, but for the most part, it was not about politics. It was about the issue of black history and how it's woven its way through her life as a well-known television news anchor for what has been most of her career. And of late, in the last couple of years, her career as a politician and a federal cabinet minister. I enjoyed the conversation, and I hope it's given you something to think about too on this month

because it's an important month on the calendar as we are constantly looking and searching for that answer to that question, what is a Canadian? So we'll think about that. Well, I hope you enjoyed that on this Encore Wednesday, our discussion with Marcy Ian about Black History Month. A reminder that tomorrow, Thursday, it's your turn, and we've had that question

in front of you all week. You can still get a word in. You can get your bid in for the answer to the question of the week, which is, if you were running for Prime Minister, what would be your first promise to voters? Write to the Mansbridge podcast at gmail.com, the Mansbridge podcast at gmail.com. Remember to add your name and the location you're writing from. And please keep this in mind. We're just looking for one answer, one answer, not a series of them. So just give me your answer. What would be the promise you would make and why? You can

include all that in a couple of sentences, I'm sure. Lots of answers have come in already, and we'd like you to join in on that. That's it for now. I'm Peter Ransbridge. Thanks so much for listening.