The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Good Talk - Carney vs Trump: What Happens Now?

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

It's been a week. Canada/US relations have never been so low. Attacks on each other's trade strategies, attacks on our sovereignty, even a pathetic, rather lame attack on one of the Great Lakes that shares our joint border. Sounds like enough for a final, special summer  episode of Good Talk. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Are you ready for a little summer good talk? And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here, along with Sean Talley Bear and Bruce Anderson. It has been a week. There's no doubt about that. When we think of just what's happened in the last seven days, kind of fits in with the idea of doing a final summer special good talk for this day. There's so many ways we could go on this. There's so many questions we can ask and we'll try to ask all of them.

but let me start this way. To me, the killer line of the week was the Prime Minister last Saturday. When he talked about the Trump administration signing a deal, it was like watching them sign something with pencil. So here's my question. I mean, I thought that was a great line. But it leaves me saying, how could you ever sit down again with that administration

and with that president, if that's what you believe, that you can't trust him to either make a deal or sign a deal or follow through on a deal, how could they ever sit down again? So let me ask you that. Chantelle, how would you answer that? You would need, I believe, from everything we heard this week, including the line where the Prime Minister compares the United States

to Russia as a bad player when it comes to trade and trade deals. That's quite a comparison. You would need a reset of the context. I don't believe that we can suddenly go back to a table with both sides saying, okay, let's keep the fundamentals of the deal we had on the table, because so far what we know about the deal that was on offer was not much of a deal. It involved the capacity, talking about signing in pencil, the capacity for the U.S. to at any time decide to re-implement or to strike Canada with new high tariffs for any reason that they saw fit. And as Mark Carney reminded Canadians, every reason under the sun has been used for tariffs over the past year and a half from fentanyl to we're still waiting for those tariffs on smoke from wildfire.

and go down the list. There are also legitimate questions as to whether the prime minister at this point, knowing what the basis of the agreement was, whether he could bring home a deal that he could convince provinces such as Ontario to sign off on and restore alcohol on the shelves of the LCBO. That's just one example, but the material on auto. and auto trade. Forget all this to and fro about French, this and that.

Everyone is giving a slightly slanted version of reality here, but the reality in this case is that Ontario would not have signed off on the deal that was on offer. And that is obvious, and for good reason. Well, it certainly seems that way, especially from everything we read, including today's Taunta McTarles piece, in the Toronto Star. I mean, that seems clearly the point. But let me try this.

So how do you go back? How do you go back if, unless you think that the Americans are going to back off many of their claims? Me, I think you have to wait for the midterms to play out. Yeah, I hear that. And I, you know, and I hear the strategy behind, you know, let's leave it alone until after the midterms. But I still come back to this point about. If you don't trust his signature on something to the point where you'd say he writes in pencil so he can wipe it out, erase it, how could you ever sit down with him?

I don't care what's in the deal. If you don't trust him, if you don't trust his signature, we've talked about this before. We've mentioned it many times the last year. They don't trust him and backed away from the deal he signed and claimed he negotiated the best deal ever the last time around. How do you ever sit down with him again, Bruce? Well, I think the first thing I would say is that it is ultimately always going to be the prime minister's responsibility to do what needs to be done in the interests of Canadians. And so if the context feels as though the only responsible choice is to sit down and have another discussion with President Trump, then I think that's how you decide to do it.

But I know that's not really the heart of your question. The heart is, do you think it will feel like it makes sense? And I think that is a separate and far more doubtful situation. I'm with Chantelle. I don't think that anything will really happen until the context in the United States changes. I don't think it's context on our side that's at issue. If anything, that's become clarified and solidified. Canadians are willing to at least endure what they anticipate will be the impacts of this dispute with the United States for a period of time.

But what might be changing in the United States right now is the political dynamic around Trump and around tariffs. And those are somewhat separate but somewhat interrelated. Here's what I mean by that. I do believe the Democrats are going to do very well in the midterms. I think they'll win back the House. I think they will take the Senate. And I think that a lot of people in the Republican Party will immediately start wondering, well, does it make sense for us to think about our next presidential candidate?

as the handpicked successor of Donald Trump, namely Rubio or Vance. Or should we be looking for someone else? And if we're looking for someone else, should it be someone who's in the mold of Donald Trump, who wants to conduct America's business on the world stage in the way that Donald Trump does, or should it be somebody cut from a different template?

I think that the Republican gravity will move away from the mega hardcore approach that Trump has taken towards something that feels more consistent with the recent, at least, or the not quite recent, but the history of the Republican Party as we've known it for most of the last four year, 50 years. If all of that changes, and I think we have to sort of trust

a certain amount of gravity in American politics, if not we're just in this endless kind of spiral, where the world feels increasingly disrupted, so I'm not going to buy into that. I'm going to think that gravity is going to have an impact. And at that point, Democrats in Congress will be pushing for smarter economic policy that does not trash the cost of living

and the opportunities for American business with these tariffs and a better relationship with Canada. I don't know that Trump will want to ever capitulate or look like he's capitulating. But I do think that we're headed for a period of time where whether he's still in office or he's no longer in office, there is going to be another discussion about how to do business together and it will be a more productive one. But I don't think it will be the same terms as we're being discussed only days ago. Yeah, well, but the problem is, and it was a problem with the discussions we had this summer, even taking into account brutal. point, which I don't argue with, that it's the prime minister's job to explore options to the fullest.

One, we already knew that Donald Trump signs in pencil, but two, these negotiations amounted to casting in stone concessions on tariffs on major industries in Canada, even before we get to Kuzma. And does anybody really believe that a Kuzma negotiation on that platform would not have resulted in more demands for concessions on the part of Canada. The only country that has been targeted by those tariffs that came into play last Saturday, the 50% ones, based on a law, a formula that is almost 100 years old and has never been used in the U.S. is Canada. If we sign any deal to avoid those and cast. and stone part of their effect.

And the courts in the U.S. eventually find that there's no real legal basis for those tariffs. That formula has fallen into, you know, it's a historical fact and not a mechanism that is valid anymore. Nobody will care in Washington because we will have signed off on those tariffs. And we tend to honor our signature. And if you get into that trial, I'm setting aside politics in Canada. the fact that I never believed that in the current context in Canada at this rate, Carney could land provincial agreement on the deal that was in the making. But if you look at the history of the Democrats, it's not a history of anything but protectionism.

So once you sign off on that, the impetus on the Democrats to walk back those tariffs or walked back significantly diminishes. And you did see some governors this week arguing against what is happening with Canada, but not wanting to say, of course, if we were in charge, we would roll them back. So careful here. I totally buy everything that Bruce has said with one in bracket. I'm not so sure that a party gets rid of its megal wing without pain and division. Well, I think there'll be pain and division for sure.

Yeah. But do they charge intact as a political force? Yeah, the only thing I'm not as I'm not really convinced of, I suppose, is this idea that where the country was was almost cast in stone concessions that would have harmed major industries. I mean, I think coming out of the conversations, as I remember, the prime minister, was far more tepid in describing the state of those negotiations than the U.S. was. The U.S. said we've got a deal, and the prime minister said there's work to do. You know, in the end, 10 years from now, maybe 15 years from now, I know the conservatives in Canada want to know it right now.

We'll know more about what exactly the prime minister was or wasn't prepared to do in order to secure access and stabilize the economy, even as, and I believe he believes this quite strongly, that as important as the U.S. relationship is, we also do really need to push hard at this diversification, both of trade and where our investment in the country comes from. I think that in that context, exploring the possibilities with the Trump administration,

even with the baggage of you can't really trust what they say, And I think he was kind of very clear-eyed about that, was worth doing. And we got to a point where there just wasn't enough there that made sense. And as I say, I don't think we'll know all of the details of that until sometime well into the future. And it'll be a useful bit of history. But I don't think it's really material to where we are right now, I guess. Okay. I guess my point wasn't, I'm not really curious about what Canada was willing.

to give up because I am more curious as to the Carnie's team's sense that they could fulfill their side of the bargain. I get the provinces on board. On the eve of a Quebec election where what was it the number? 61%. I can say it that I can back that with anecdotes. We're saying we don't want to make any concessions. A premier in Ontario that was being told by the auto industry, don't do this. You know, it struck me that when we took alcohol off the shelves, US alcohol a year and a half ago, no one kind of totally figured out that we were building a provincial veto on any negotiation between the US and the federal government. We just did that, and that was a gesture. But the end effect, as we saw over the past weeks that led to the breakdown in

talks was that Quebec, BC, Ontario, to name the three major provinces, actually had a veto on whatever outcome came out. Because the U.S. has made the restoring of spirits on shelves a red line condition for any deal to go through. That hasn't changed and will not change. And to tell Canadians, well, you can always just boycott them, not by them, totally true. but it also meant that Premier Frischette, Premier Ford, Premier E.B. Would have to defend the deal of the federal government. They couldn't have said Mark Carney did that, and we don't agree, because they actively would have had to sign off and defend whatever concessions were in there.

And I think that by the end of last week, it became apparent for the Canadian team that this was not going to happen. And add to that, I take Mark Carney at this word on, you know, the U.S. adding language or putting language that actually emptied some of those, those, that relief of much of its meaning. And what you have is kind of a bad political situation. Weakens Canada, looking at Kuzmo, weakens the prime minister himself, and creates serious public divisions. can't. Okay, let me take this from another angle. Because this one really, this one really gets to me. This bothers me a lot. And it's the sovereignty issue, because there are times when I look at this past week and I go, was this really about trade or was this about sovereignty?

Especially when you listen to some of the things that are said either by Donald Trump or Lutnik or, or whomever it may be. Even Jameson Greer at times. It seems like a reasonable guy, bureaucrat doing this, trying to do his job. They seem to get along with the Canadian negotiators. But nevertheless, to me, some of the things that have been said in these past year and a half,

and especially in the last month and a half, put the sovereignty issue back on the table. And at times I look at it, I go, you know, for all the fuss that was made about Greenland and is still being made about Greenland. That's kind of peanuts compared to things that are being said about us. And I'm wondering how much of this is a sovereignty issue. I understand how the two things can be intertwined, sovereignty and trade. But how much of this right now is sovereignty, not trade?

Well, I think that if you're saying how much of it is sovereignty and the question is related to in the mind of Donald Trump, I think a fair bit, but I think it's not like there's a clear-eyed focused strategy. It's like he has a fever dream every 10 minutes, and it's about something wild and weird and that doesn't make any sense that has to do with his ego. I mean, the positions that he took last week, I think it was, on North Korea and South Korea,

the endless kind of, It's hard to know what his position is on Ukraine and Russia, except it's definitely not in favor of Ukrainian sovereignty. I don't think there's a through line where you can say Trump arrived in his second term in office with a view that he was going to annex other parts of the hemisphere or the world, and that he had a strategy that he followed and he knew how it was going to go and he was sort of building up. his argument over time, putting the chess pieces in place. None of that was there. He does wake up and say, I want to get my Sharpie out and draw a new map and write words on it that make me feel like I'm accomplishing things like great American presidents

in the past have. I mean, I think he put out maybe last night or this morning his kind of tiered ranking of all the presidents in history. And of course, he was the one at the top, the greatest U.S. president in history and you know Biden and Obama and Carter and these were all at the very very bottom there were four tears I mean this is silliness on an epic scale on an epic theatrical embarrassing humiliating scale I was reading this piece in a New York Times this morning this exchange between these two columnists that they do every once in

a while and one of them reminded the other of this quote from Machiavelli, which was, you know, the princes don't, they should be aware of the fact that if you get into a situation where you are hated but not feared, that's real trouble. And he was saying this is the context for America right now, that Russia and China might hate America but not fear it anymore. and that even long-standing allies of the United States might be moving in that direction was the warning that he was calling. And I think that's the thing that Trump doesn't get right now. Is it something snapped around the world, but also inside his own country? The unbelievable, really outpouring of a number of politicians in the United States who this past 72 hours or so have said, enough is enough. We don't like your tariffs. We don't think you understand how the economy works.

You're driving up the cost of living with no end in sight, with no strategy apparent. And now you're punishing our allies for things that they didn't do. And it's the linkage of all of those things together that has created a kind of an explosive reaction in the United States, which Trump still doesn't understand because he decided that he was going to do this, maybe the silliest, stupidest, most embarrassing thing that he's done yet, and that is such a hard test to pass, that this could be the silliest, stupidest thing. This renaming of Lake Ontario.

It looked like an episode of VEP or something like that. Oh, it wouldn't have made it. Yeah, exactly, right? And so I think Americans are looking at this, just like the rest of the world and going, It does feel kind of like hated but not feared. And get out of here. Get out of the way.

Get out of the conversation. Stop making everything worse every day. And so in a way, as awful as this last several days has been to watch, you have to believe that that clock is turning on him and that people are going to want something better. How much better? Who will personify it? I think it's too early to say. How many times?

How many times have we thought that in the last year and a half? Well, every day. I don't know why you think this is any different. I mean, I understand there have been a few people standing up and saying stuff. More than a few. Not a few. More than a few. Well, there's a long list of almost entirely Democrats.

Well, that's the point, though. But people for the first time since the presidential election are about to get a chance to vote in the U.S. That's the difference. Everything else, I agree, is wishful thinking. We didn't need any more proofs that Donald Trump is disconnected from the reality of his own country and his own public opinion. He is disconnected from the reality in the U.S. Forget that Canada is angry. He is acting like someone who in this country, we would quickly dispatch to other activities, like playing golf or gardening or whatever.

and replace no party in this country would actually keep a leader that cannot walk in a straight line intellectually and does whatever we saw yesterday. But the fact is that Americans who have been spending the past year and a half saying, oh, sorry, we don't, this isn't us, et cetera, well, they're going to get a chance to prove it. And at some point, if you start losing in the ballot box, there are rules of politics that apply to everyone. And gravity in politics is based on ballot box results. Yes, polling is awful. But so far, it's just polling.

Sorry, Bruce. Those numbers will or will not materialize and there will be a shift. And at that point, people who like their positions and who are Republicans will start fearing for their positions because Trump becomes an albatross even more than he is today. And that has been demonstrated by votes. Now, if he takes over or cancels the midterms, I don't know. That's for Americans to decide what they do with that and where they go from there. But the notion, as for the sovereignty issue, Canadians feel that way and you feel that way, because that is. where this president has placed it. And the notion that he wants Canada to be a basal state

is not a figment of our imagination. It is how he sees and his team sees Canada. And to tell you, the truth, Mark Carney, it so happens, does not have a mandate to accomplish that. So he doesn't have he doesn't have anyone to speak to. What did we watch this week with the latest news conferences about the why Canada pulled out, manufacture, the crisis was trying to not help the Patski Bikwa. Well, first, in the history of this country, which federal government has ever wanted to help the Patski Bikwa or sovereignists in any province. But that was a deliberate effort to kind of create more divisions in what is so far relatively

United Federal Provincial Front. And if you don't see it as interference in Canadian politics, it will backfire, or I will predict, because there's not enough credibility attached to anyone on the Trump team to actually carry the day. Those are not trade discussions.

There are discussions about how you have to, what was the expression, fall in line. Right. So, okay. Well, see, this is where, like, I hear what both of you were saying on this. But the guy is still the president of the United States. It's still August. The voting isn't until November.

He, you know, he has incredible power in that office, no matter what those outside of it are saying or trying. to say these days. I just see it as an extremely dangerous moment, unlike one we've ever faced in our lifetimes. But beyond that, we're basically

doing what we have to do. It's one thing to admit that's a very dangerous time. I don't think Bruce is going to quarrel with you on that, and I won't either. But having said that, I'm not. I'm not scared. I am conscious, it's dangerous, but I am also thinking that at this point we are doing what we have to do. Yeah, that's where I am.

I mean, unless you're saying we should be expecting the arrival of U.S. munitions, and maybe he will try anything. I mean, he is, as far as I'm concerned, completely unhinged. But there isn't, I think I'm where Chantal is on this. I don't know what we could do other than what we are doing. I think that the rest of the world is watching this relationship with an attentiveness that hasn't been there before. It has been a little bit in the last year and a half, I think, but it's intensifying. But I think what's really changed for me, and I know I always sound like the kind of the crazy optimists here about this stuff,

but Americans are paying attention to this in a way that they haven't been. And they're looking at it from the standpoint of first and foremost, we can't afford anything and this guy doesn't care. And he's making it worse. And the linkage of the relationship with Canada is just adding a sense of pain and insult and hardship to that conversation. So I think the forces of democracy will weigh in. I heard you say it's not till November, but in my mind, these races are well underway. we've got competitors challenging in Maine. Susan Collins, who only a couple of months ago,

everybody's saying, well, she's probably going to be able to win her seat again, and that'll mean the end of the hopes for the Democrats to take the Senate, especially since the Democrats had a problematic candidate. Well, they replaced the problematic candidate. They've got a new candidate. And Collins, this week, was a more ambitious ally of Canada in this trade fight. She called out the president, said, this is going to devastate our lobstermen.

This is going to be horrible for our state. And what happened? Her opponent said, she can't be trusted on this. So there's a more dynamic conversation in American politics about making sure we don't further destroy this important economic relationships. It's not just politicians doing it because they want to take on Trump. They're hearing from businesses. They're hearing from consumers that this is against their interest.

and they don't want any more of it. And so it's less than 70 days from now when this reckoning is coming. And if I'm wrong and people, you know, seem unhappy but stay home, I'll eat that app or something. Leave it there. I'll get a small paper hat.

But I don't think that's the way this is going to go. I don't think you're wrong. My fear is that he doesn't give it to him. What happens in that? November. He's still going to be president. He may not have the control he had before with the Senate and the House, but there are all kinds of things you can do as president, as we witness, the bizarre, pathetic episode yesterday. And that's why I fear the moment. Because I, you know, I don't think he cares what happens in November. I don't think he cares what happens with Susan

Collins, although I wouldn't bet against her. You've watched her history in terms of, you know, being against. I agree with that. But I think that, you know, he's, he does until he does. I mean, yesterday he said, he wants all voters to pretend he's on the ballot. That's a stupid thing to say for the Republicans. And it's also a stupid thing for him to say, just from his own standpoint, if you're headed for this drubbing and you announce that the drubbing.

should be, you know, that the people should vote about me, which is what clearly is about to happen. Based on the polls and Chantelle's right, there's just polls until their votes in ballot boxes. So he's very up and down and all over the place on this stuff. I don't think there's a real through line there. And in the end, I do think his party will have more to say about how he conducts America's business after the midterms than they do before. Okay. And I'm not sure that it leads anywhere to say this is a dangerous moment and we fear it

beyond saying it because once we've said that, we're in a circular argument here. But none of us is saying we should be doing A instead of B that we're doing now. And no one of stature on the Canadian scene is actually saying, can we go back and accept those terms at the negotiating? table. So this is where we're up. This is where Canadian voters are at. And I don't think voters live in a fair event. So it could be worse. We could be all over the map. We've seen that in the past. Oh yeah. You know, one major province saying white, the other one saying black, the federal government trying to find a non-existent gray zone. We're not in that situation. We're having a

conversation, sometimes adversarial, between provinces. on some things, but bottom line, there is a very large consensus. Yeah, remarkable. Yes. Yeah. It was under some threat last week. Oh, yeah. I still believe that the better outcome is the breakup in the talks and not the alternative.

That's right. Okay. We've got to take a break. We're long overdue for a break. We'll do that, and we'll talk a little more about all this and the impact it's having on this side. of the border right after this. And welcome back. You're listening to

The Bridge, the Friday episode, which of course is a good talk with Sean Tilly Bear and Bruce Anderson. You're listening on Sirius XM, Channel 167. You're listening on our podcast. Or you're watching us on YouTube. Glad to have you with us. This is a summer special. We'll be back in two weeks for the beginning of our regular schedule every Friday morning for good talk. but the rest of the week as well. We'll start on Labor Day with a Janice Stein episode.

We've been long overdue for Janice with lots of mail for good talk and lots of mail for Janice over these last week saying, you know, I can't go on without hearing them. You've got to bring them back. And I say, well, you know, they'll be back. And here they are. Okay, let me... You know, you know the rest of politics program. Bruce, your friends, the main one, which is in Britain.

But there's one in the U.S. as well with Anthony Scaramucci, who was, you know, President Trump's director of communications for whatever it was, 10 days, 11 days, back in his first term. And Kady Kay, the great British broadcaster, BBC, they do a podcast, the rest of politics. And I don't know whether you heard this week, but Scaramucci said, and I don't think Caddy Kay disagreed. They said as a result of the events of the last year,

and especially the events of the last week, that Mark Carney is now the leader of the Western world. But almost by default, we should qualify that. Yeah, I know, but I mean, when's the last time anybody said that about it, Canadian leader. Brian Moroni on apartheid, which is... On apartheid, on a single issue, right?

Yes. And he was. He led the way on that. But what I say by default, I'm not laughing. It is kind of scary. The state of the world leadership, what's going to be happening in France, with Macron walking away, what's been happening in the UK since Brexit and the forever change of prime ministers, the one after the other and you go down the list then you have to eventually come down to spain

holding fast and paying somewhat of a price for this but it's not as if we are in an era of great g7 leadership and so yeah and yes that's not taking away anything from mark karning but but there it it it is a bit of a lonely position that he is in i think what people are reacting to is in part exactly what Chantel said, which is that the world seems, the world order seems to be so disrupted. People may not have even really had a sense of exactly what the world order was, except that there was a way to work things out and there was a certain reliability to some of the multinational structures and the ways in which leaders of different countries would talk with one another, would get together for G7 or G20 meetings, and

would, even though people could look at it and say, well, it seemed boring, seemed like they didn't really accomplish very much, that was better than it feeling like it was a five-alarm fire every day and that everything was combustible and that you couldn't really count on. The distribution of goods around the world, the disposition of hostilities between aggressors, nations and those that they're attacking. All of that has dissipated very, very quickly. And the principal culprit in most people's minds is the United States. What they haven't been able to see until now, and I think they see it a little bit in

Karnay, wouldn't overstayed. I think there's a tendency both to catastrophize in the pundit class. And I like those two pundits, just as I like us doing our thing. But it's possible that we catastrophize things that go badly. And it's equally possible that we lionize things that go well. And I think we have to be cautious about that. But I think in Carney, people see a couple of things that they value. One is he's not really a politician's politician at all.

He's new to politics. And so the performance of politics is something that people have become accustomed to and generally don't like. That is to say, seeing somebody who looks as though, they are playing the role of a politician. They approach it in the same way. The calculation is usually about some domestic political consideration and the public policy follows that. I think people see and Carney somebody who isn't really motivated and doesn't really do the calculation that way. And I think people value that here in Canada.

I think people outside also kind of sense that about it. And then there's the substantive part, which is the things that he says are important and the ways in which he says them are resonant with people. There's an aspect of that. Again, it's probably a little unique to him, perhaps because of his background and the fact that he hasn't been a politician for 25 years. But it's getting through to people. People are hearing it and saying that's the kind of thought that I would love to see more leaders share. So I don't think leader of the Western world is not a position. Nobody can decide who it is.

It's a thought leadership role. And I think it's one that people value. And I think Canadians sort of see it. I mean, we've got a big poll in the field right now. And ever since I started in this business 40 years ago, one of the things that you would measure in terms of how people saw a prime minister was how they represented Canada to the world or the image that they gave the world about Canada.

And from time to time, different leaders, Pierre Trudeau, Brian Mulroney, you would see flashes of people saying, I like the way they do this. They get good marks for it. But it almost never really mattered in terms of what people vote on or what they stay awake at night worrying about.

I think this is different. I think right now people do consider, that this is a more important criteria of the job, not to say it's more important than the cost of living, but that it is a more important criteria than it has been probably at any time in my life, in terms of how meaningful that global order question is. Just let me quickly say that it's time you updated your longevity issue. For the last five years, you've been saying you've been in polling for 40 years. So,

maybe 50. Are you a little sensitive to that? Is that maybe it's on your mind? Okay. Before you guys have this, you know, couples therapy session, which I'm not qualified to help you with, a couple of points.

One, I get that polling is showing that the issue matters and it's tied to my journey. I still believe that it still helps immensely that the alternative is considered by most Canadians not to be an alternative. So you can have these conversations about Carney, doesn't do this or doesn't do that, and then you go, okay, so do you want the other guy? And Mr. Poyev clearly is not resurfacing as an alternative

that is credible to most Canadians who are rightly concerned about the situation. But I wouldn't want people who are listening to come away from listening to a was thinking that Mark Carney can't do as many political calculations as he can do economic calculations. I wonder if you're going to have something to say about that. Well, and I like a good political play, and I dislike clumsy ones, but I know a political play when I see it. The emphasis, I'm not saying the lies, that's not where I'm going, the emphasis on the concessions

that could harm French language protections and culture on the eve of the Quebec election worked beautifully, much better than saying our auto industry would have disappeared in the sense that, yes, in this province it's really important. And whenever you say concessions on culture, and you say, I'm never going to allow for them, you win points. And you win points. And In this case, the Premier of Quebec won points as a result. Oh, it was a great political play. Yeah. Some of that emphasis was calculated.

Let's be serious. Yeah, look, this is why doing a podcast with Chantelle-Barris is not for rookies. You say something like I said. You're going to hear something back. Because if I don't say it, I'm going to hear a lot. Yeah, that's right. People saying, have you gone into this. No, and I think most, well, most Quebecers who are paying attention

realized that that emphasis was maybe overemphasized. But at that point, most Quebecers who are concerned are saying, well, good. Now he's put a line on the sand. He can't walk over that paint. So if ever negotiations resume, the protections for Francophone culture, they're off the table. So objective gain from the perspective of most voters, but also a splendid political play. Let me... It must be time for that second break, right?

Let me ask one more. One more Carney question. In a way, the events of the last week bought him time. And I asked that because, you know, there was a degree of sort of... Where's the beef? When are things going to happen? You know, it's been a year and a half. Things are kind of stalemated. Nothing's really changed.

He's promising this, that, and the other thing, they haven't happened yet. Does the last week buy him more time? I mean, with things... Well, objectively, things actually got worse. Right. Okay. They got worse. But I'm not sure that there were that many people outside of the year.

spin from opposition parties, one in particular. I'm not sure that there were that many people sitting on the edge of their seats saying, can we please get this going? What I heard before the breakdown from people when the news broke that we were working towards what could be a deal, etc. It was dread of that deal and not a finally or starting to go somewhere. I think and it was always going to be a problem up to a point for Prime Minister Carney. Canadians rightly do not see that there is a productive deal to be had from Donald Trump or one that he will respect. They are primed for that.

But that also makes it really hard to convince Canadians that concessions are in order. Okay, but that's my point. If most Canadians feel that way, then they're not going to expect anything in the near term. But meanwhile, things that are happening domestically, it's interesting what's happening in the U.S., and we can't avoid it. But things they're really interesting

have been happening in this country as a result of all of this that will translate into actual things, whether you're for or against them. D.C. over the summer has moved closer than it ever has to consent to a new pipeline. And the political situation in BC actually helps an NDP government remain on side with that project of a pipeline from Alberta to the West Coast. A, not obvious six months ago.

Newfoundland and Quebec have set aside their disagreements, historical disagreements on hydropower to work together to put in place a very ambitious hydro plan that matters a lot. These things have been made easier by the fact that everyone is putting a bit of water in their wine to advance real things, not just to sit at home and anguish over what's going to happen to all of us. And I'll say just one more thing. This is the first time and all of the time that I've watched Canadian politics when a prime minister uses the issue of French language and identity to say, we're not doing something, and there is no backlash.

No one is writing. He's caving to Quebec. And I thought that was astounding. Sometimes the things that don't happen are even more striking than the things that do happen. But all these things that have been happening mean that we are actually not doing much on the US front, but we are moving stuff forward in an interesting way. Yeah, Peter, can I go back to your preamble where you said there's been a certain amount of people going, well, nothing seems to be happening.

And I don't know who you were referring to a certain amount and you were saying it was everybody. But I just have to say in the polling that I've done, I wasn't able to see that. In effect, what I was seeing is a very steady state comparatively high level of satisfaction with the government, the federal government, on a whole wide range of issues. surprising in some respects because I thought, okay, the way that he's approaching his energy policy and what it sounds like relative to Trudeau's climate policy is going to cause some disruption. I haven't seen it. I've seen people kind of, to Chantel's point, everybody's sort of putting a little bit of water in their wine in terms of understanding that this complicated world.

And rather than say, which some of the opposition politicians were saying, on the conservative side, Carney doesn't seem to be getting anything done. Canadians seem to be looking at a prime minister who is in constant motion, constantly trying to move things forward, and they were judging him very differently. It was one of a series now, to Chantal's earlier point about, why is Pierre Pollyev just not making any sense to Canadians? it's partly that they started out not liking him and they haven't liked him anymore since,

maybe a little bit worse. But it's also that the attacks that he chooses just don't sound right to people. They just don't sound relevant to people, but sometimes they just don't sound accurate. This notion that he hasn't been accelerating of projects in Canada is a really good one. And I'm hoping that increasingly

people start to look at the combination of energy, policy and project changes that the prime minister has brought forward and said this is an effective longer-term climate policy in the sense of electrification was always going to be a major part of how we reduce emissions in the country and nobody's done more to accelerate that electrification agenda in the 40 or 50 years that I've been in this business that this prime minister has All right. I did say a degree of dissatisfaction, and I didn't put a number on the degree. But my main point was whatever that number would be.

The past week seems to have bought him more time. Yeah, but the people who were saying that percentage, they haven't changed their minds. I don't think he's looking for bought time. I mean, this Investor Summit thing is coming up in 15 days or something like that, this will be an important event. Oh, yeah. You know, I don't disagree with that, but it's all part of a new period of time, where if, you know, things could have gone differently in the last couple of weeks,

it could have caused all kinds of new problems. Right. I get it at. Or not, you know. That's right. Anyway, let's take our final break, and then we've got a couple of minutes, and I've got a question for you. We'll do that right after this.

And welcome back. Final moments of the summer special of Good Talk for this day. Bruce and Sean Taylor are here. I'm Peter Mansbridge. Glad to have you with us. Okay. What was that final question going to be, Peter? Try to remember what it was.

You know, whether it was Lutnik or whether was Trump, there's this sense you get from Washington that, oh, the Canadians are going to come crawling back. maybe a couple of days, maybe a couple of weeks, but they'll be back here. They know what a good deal they passed up and they'll be desperately trying to get it. Do either of you see Canada going back to the table?

This is kind of like the opening question. And the answer won't have changed. Right. So what are we saying? Are we saying there's no way we're going back to deal with them at least until after they, put a time frame on it until after the midterms. I don't see us having productive negotiations that result in a deal that you need to sell to Canadians

before the Quebec election October 5th or the Alberta referendum, October 19th. And by then, I'm guessing we're getting really close to the midterms. But I don't see Mark Carney asking the Premier of Quebec to accept concession. in the middle of an election campaign where he's clearly cheering for her and not for the main opponent that is the party of Quebequa. Bruce? I think, yeah, I think that the question of whether or not

formal negotiations or some discussions is a meaningful question. Part of why I say that is that I think on the American side, whatever they say that this part of their spin and Lutnik is probably the worst person that they ever put out there to speak about, this. He's kind of like, he's in Washington version of Pete Hextra.

By the way, I don't know if that petition to see him out, the door has hit 300,000 yet, but it's a really meaningful number of Canadians who've put their names that. You're running out of time. All right. So a short answer from my standpoint is the Americans are starting to see that even what they were proposing was going to be extremely harmful to a number of industries, including not just their farmers, but also. also their auto manufacturing sector. Michigan is an important swing state,

and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Americans say, we'd like to get back to some discussions about this because the damage that those tariffs that are coming could do to their own auto industry is really, really serious. Okay. Good conversation, you two. Mm-hmm. Glad we...

It's great to be back together. It is. It's not great that summer is almost over. No, that's good to see you guys again. But we will be back and full at it two weeks from today. As good talk enters, it's whatever this is now. Seventh season. Looking forward to the chat.

Okay, take care. Take care of you two and take care out there. Enjoy the final days of summer. And we'll talk to you again in two weeks. Buzz is out tomorrow so you can see that at 7 a.m. on your inbox if you subscribe, no cost. Cheers. Bye for now.