The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - How Far Would You Fly And What Would You Pay To Get A Private Vaccine?

Episode Date: January 28, 2021

It's a potpourri day with some very interesting stories -- from the genesis of "Because it's 2015!" to paying for a private vaccine.

and hello there peter mansbridge here latest episode the bridge daily it's thursday of week 46 and you know many of you have said to me and have written to me over the months, more than a year now that we've been doing The Bridge, and you have suggested that you love hearing anecdotes from my past days, different moments in my career. So I'm going to tell you one today to get started. This goes back to November of 2015, November the 4th to be exact of 2015. Raise your hand if you remember why that day is significant in some ways in Canadian history. That's right. You at the back. You're right. November 4th, 2015, that is when Justin Trudeau assumed the office of Prime Minister of Canada. And why am I talking about that day? Well, one of the things we tried to do that day is we wanted to kind of get behind the scenes on what happens on the day that somebody becomes prime minister of Canada.

I mean, you see all the normal stuff and television, the swearing in, you know, the walk to Rideau hall, all of that stuff. You see all that, but you don't really get to see what happens behind the scenes. So we made a pitch and it went through, you know, various levels. I assume at the end of the day it was Justin Trudeau who had to decide whether or not he wanted to do this. But for some reason he agreed. And I think history should thank him for that.

Because we have hours and hours of tape from that day. And I don't think there's any other prime minister of this country who's ever allowed anything like that, audio or video. So starting early on the day, I think it was like 7.30 that morning, we hooked up Justin Trudeau, who was then the about-to-be Prime Minister, with a microphone and a battery pack hanging on his belt. And off he went, and we were able to record everything he said for the next, I guess, four or five hours. Conversations that he had with different staff members,

with his kids, with his wife, with cabinet ministers, about to be cabinet ministers, various people. There were a couple of times where they asked to turn the audio off for confidential conversations. I think one was with the governor general of the day. But other than that, you know, we got pretty well everything that happened. And it started with him going up the Peace Tower, going up to where the flag is raised every morning.

And I think that day it was raised about 8 o'clock. And he went right up to the top, like literally right up to the top, up in the steeple or whatever you call the top of the tower. And he wedged himself in there with the flag keeper and with his son. So he could see everything. And we got ourselves, or at least our camera got up there and got some great shots. And it was all, you know, very nice and nice little family moment.

They raised the flag. And I think as a result, they got to keep that flag as a special part of their own personal history. Anyway, that was easy. Then we went down to the prime minister's new office, the office that used to be his father's many years ago. And I interviewed his father, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, in that office back in the 70s. Anyway, he set up in the office because he wanted a staff meeting

with his senior staff. So we're talking about, you know, principal, secretary, the chief of staff, you know, Jerry Butts, Katie Telford, Kate Purchase, who was then the director of communications, a couple of other people. and the whole idea behind that meeting was to go through the day and try to assume certain situations and figure out what would be the best way to handle it. And the main thing that they had on their mind was the news conference he would have, the new prime minister, once he'd been sworn into power. And how would he handle that? And what could be the

expected questions? And that was the job of the senior staff to be able to think through that, come up with, you know, they're probably going to ask you about such and such. How do you want to answer it? Here's what we suggest. You say all those kinds of things. So at one point, somebody said, and I can't remember who it was, we're, you know, we're like silent, sitting at the side of the room, videographing, videotaping, everything we could. We're only allowed one camera, so it was tricky.

And, but nevertheless, along we went. And somebody asked, one of his staff said, what are you going to say when someone asks about the gender split in cabinet? Which on that day was 50-50. First time that had ever happened. And so Justin Trudeau said, yeah, how do we want to handle that? What is the approach we want to take? You know, he said, I'm very proud of this fact, et cetera, et cetera.

What do we want to say? And there was this short pause, and Jerry Butt spoke up and said, how about just say it's 2015? When somebody says, why is it a 50-50 split? Just say, because it's 2015. And people kind of nodded in agreement and that was that. So off we went through the rest of the day, the swearing-in ceremony for the Prime Minister and his new cabinet, and eventually got around to the press briefing

on the driveway just outside Rideau Hall, the Governor General's residence. And sure enough, one of the first questions was, why did you do a 50-50 split on the cabinet, on the gender split? Half men, half women. Pause, look into camera, because it's 2015. And that became the headline, headline of the day, not just in Canada, but elsewhere, around the world. And I thought, this is great, because we saw the genesis of that moment.

We saw where it all started. We saw how it all started. We saw how those words ended up in his mouth, on our screens, and around the world. So I was thinking of that today when I was looking at the gender composition of the new United States cabinet, the cabinet of Joe Biden. Because it is a pretty significant shift from the past.

There are two groups of stats that have come out in the last couple of days. One is on the gender composition and the other is on the ethnic composition. And it's worth looking at both and keeping both in mind as we move forward in what is a very tenuous situation in that country. And part of it is based on these issues of ethnic composition and gender composition. So here we go. On gender composition. Until the Biden administration came in, this is in terms of the cabinet.

The person with the highest percentage of women in his cabinet was Barack Obama at 33%. Next was Bill Clinton at 24%. And then tied for third place, George Bush, W, and Donald Trump, the two of them at 21%. So 33, 24, 21. What's Joe Biden? 48%. By far and away, the cabinet with the best gender split in the history of the U.S. 48%. 15 points ahead of the second place, President Barack Obama. Now, here's the ethnic composition.

People of color versus white. So, Barack Obama was the leader in this coming into this current administration. He had 42% of his cabinet were people of color. Next up, Bill Clinton

at 32%, followed by George W. Bush at 25%, followed by Donald Trump at 17%. Joe Biden, 52%. More people of color than white in his cabinet. Now, most people will make the case correctly that Joe Biden's victory, both for the nomination and then eventually for the election, were as a result of support from people of color. And if he believes that, and that's what the stats show, he certainly is rewarding them with positions in his cabinet. And it's the same with women, in terms of how women voted in the election.

So there you go. Now, I never heard him say, because it's 2021, when he announced these different positions in the last week or so. But he could have. And if he did, it would all go back to that Jerry Butts line on November 4th, 2015. All right, next up in our topics for today. I want to talk a little bit about COVID-19

and kind of where we are because it's so easy to get caught up with some of the truly horrifying, terrifying numbers in terms of the increasing number of deaths. The number of cases seems to have dropped somewhat, but we know what that means when it's going to be a while before hospitalizations and deaths drop. And we still haven't factored in what exactly the impact, some people feel the impact could be a third wave of this mutant form of the COVID virus. There are a number of different mutant forms, the UK, South Africa, Brazil.

There's no doubt that some of them have reached Canada. And there's no doubt that some of them, a good deal, a big number of them have reached the United States. But at the same time, there are some things that we can be more confident about in terms of the fight against. And I don't say any of these with the expectation that you're going to suddenly say, okay, well, we can take it easy because you can't take it easy. None of us can. We found out how much of a problem that is by slacking off and taking it easy in not just in this country, but clearly in different parts of the U.S. through last summer. Anyway, these are some numbers that are encouraging, I think

is the best way to say it. And these come from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation in the United States. And I read them in their own news release. The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation. As of January 11th, so that's like two weeks ago, we estimated that 76% of people always wore a mask when leaving their home. That's unchanged from the week before. All states had mask use over 50%. So we tend to report a lot and talk a lot about those anti-maskers, and there are anti-maskers, and some feel their argument is an important one,

but they're losing that debate. If this estimate is correct, more than three-quarters of the people in the U.S. are wearing a mask when leaving their home. And every state, it's over 50%. In the United States, 52.5% of people say they would accept a vaccine for COVID-19, and 24% say they are unsure if they would accept one. The fraction of the population who are open to receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, those are responses of yes or unsure, ranges from 66% in Mississippi to 85% in Utah.

The Institute expects that 141 million people will be vaccinated by May 1st. And with a faster scale-up, in other words, if there are more vaccines available, in other words, aside from just Pfizer and Moderna, or if Pfizer and Moderna start producing at a higher rate, the Institute suggests that the vaccination could reach 179 million people by May 1st. That's in the U.S. And finally, and this is, you know, the always difficult part of this story. In our reference scenario, which represents what we think is most likely to happen,

our model projects 567,000 cumulative deaths on May 1st. This represents 192,000 additional deaths from January 11th to May 1st. Daily deaths will peak at 3680 on February 1st. That's next week. Daily deaths are estimated to be well below 500 a day in the month of April. That's a big drop in the next couple of months. Now, these are all assumptions and projections made without factoring in the difficulties that could happen as a result of the virus mutating. Those could change everything.

Just this morning, I heard one doctor talking about the possibility of a third wave because of those new mutations. Now, the other part of the concern around these new mutations is more discussions about mask use. And you've probably heard this week more than a few people talking about double masking to prevent COVID-19. Now, a couple of comments on that. Most people who talk about double masking say your primary mask should be an N95 mask. They're the gold standard in terms of protection. A piece in the Huffington Post the last couple of days that I'm referencing, which says, as you probably know,

if you can get hold of an N95 and double it up with a surgical mask, you're going to have an efficient shield against viral particles. You know, back in January, I was in my pharmacy in Toronto, and it was just when they were starting to talk about the possibilities of this virus and how it could cause problems. And at that time, a lot of medical people were saying, we got to be careful, we've got to watch this, but, you know, we should be fine.

So I'm in my pharmacy, and there's a very small little area that's been there forever in the pharmacy on surgical masks. And there are ordinary basic surgical masks. And then there were a couple of N95s. I think there were three of them. There were three of them. So I called across the room to my pharmacist. I said, should I buy these?

And he said, oh, you're not going to need those. Remember, this is like early January of last year. And actually, I don't think he said, you're not going to need them. He says, oh, you're really worried, right? Sort of downplaying it. I thought, you know what? I'm going to buy some. So I did. I bought all three of the N95s. And I bought some of the basic ones. You know, I think the basic ones you get like 10 for, you know, three bucks or something. The N95s were, I think, $3 or $4 each.

Anyway, I bought them all. The three N95s are still sitting here in the cupboard in Stratford. And in the early days of when the virus really took hold, I felt guilty about that. And I offered them up here locally for frontline healthcare, and they said, we really appreciate the offer of those three, but at the moment we're okay. We know where they are if we need them.

I haven't heard from them. But they're sitting there in the cupboard waiting for that moment. And I, for the first time, suggested yesterday, maybe if this double masking thing is a real, really something we should consider, we should bring those N95s out. Now, I haven't done that yet, and I haven't looked at them, so I don't know how, maybe they're only good for one use. I don't know.

I'll have to check. Anyway, double masking is something you may want to consider, and there's lots of information out there on double masking that you might want to consider. You know, which one should go on first, which one second, which ones are not much use to even be using. So you might want to check that. This may be the time to be checking that. Which leads me to a piece I read in The Conversation.

Have you ever heard of that? I think we've talked about The Conversation before. It's a Canadian magazine, and you can see it online. It's, as they say, curated by professional editors, offers informed commentary, and debate on various issues. Well, they have a piece in this month's edition about masks. And the headline is, Face Mas represent a chance to restore Canadian manufacturing. I thought, this is interesting. What is this about?

And it's a professor from McMaster, from the Mechanical and Biomedical Engineering Department. You'll have to excuse me if I pronounce his name wrong, but I'll give it a try here. P. Ravi Selviganapathy is the name, the way I see it. And he's got a pretty good article here on masking and the impact that Canada has had and can have on the masking industry. So I'm just going to read a little bit of it. Not a lot, just a little bit, because it's pretty interesting.

The pandemic changed the condition of the market. Previously, the sale of gloves, masks, and other PPE were all based on price. Whoever made functional, disposable products at the lowest cost captured the market by selling them by the millions to hospitals, long-term care homes, and clinics. Today, masks are necessary for everyone, and in the consumer marketplace, they've become personal, wearable devices like cell phones and eyeglasses. Users are prepared to invest more in something that meets their everyday needs, stands up to daily use, is comfortable, and looks good. A typical N95 mask from 3M, which offers the best quality filtration, might cost between one and two dollars so they come down since i bought them reusable

non-medical cloth masks that the gap sells are not as efficient as 3ms but they look much better they can be washed and sell for about five bucks a piece elsewhere someone can pay 25 dollars or more for a mask not because it necessarily offers more protection, but because it looks and feels better. This consumer demand for higher-priced masks makes it easier to introduce new technologies with better breathability, fit, filtration capability, lifetime, and appealing style. These options all have value, which create opportunities for Canadian manufacturers. And this is where it gets in the business end of this. Back in March, my colleagues and I at McMaster University created

the Center of Excellence in Protective Equipment and Materials, called the CEPEM, in response to a call from Hamilton Health Sciences to start locally manufacturing face masks and face shields to address anticipated shortages. In just over a month, the CEPEM team created designs, identified suitable materials, and developed tests for filtration and fit. Now, with assistance from the Center, Whitebird, a Hamilton packaging company, is producing 20,000 face shields a day. Nico Apparel, also in Hamilton, is making 20,000 masks per day. Vitacor in British Columbia has started producing hundreds of thousands of made-in-Canada N95 masks.

Woodbridge has already produced millions of level 3 masks in Ontario. So this is quite the little success story in the mask business. Remember when this started? When we all got the real heebie-jeebies back in March? And some of us were saying, you've got to wearing masks. We got to start wearing them now. You couldn't find a mask. Now, as the professor writes, there are lots of masks out there. But it's not all about how you look in them, right?

So you want to check that out. All right. Here's one on the vaccines. We had a special program earlier this week on vaccines, kind of the inside story on some of the basic questions about vaccines, especially with all the issues surrounding the rollout right now. It was Monday's The Bridge. I suggest if you didn't hear it, you flip back and get it because it's pretty good. So this one is in the New York Times. I think it was yesterday. No, it's today.

It's called The Vaccinated Class. Let me see. I've got my dates right. Yeah, it's today's New York Times. I think it came out yesterday, so it was online yesterday. It's called The Vaccinated Class, and that's a takeoff of first class, business class, economy, and the vaccinated class.

Now, this will prove a number of things to you. The money can buy anything except happiness. Listen to this. Knightsbridge Circle. That's a luxury travel service, and I'm reading this from the New York Times piece by Jonah Bromwich. Knightsbridge Circle, a luxury travel service in London

that charges £25,000 a year for membership. I haven't looked at the conversion rate lately, but £25,000 is probably somewhere around, I don't know, $38,000, $40,000. Well, for £25,000 a year, Knightsbridge Circle made waves earlier this month when its founder, Stuart McNeill, told the Telegraph that the club would fly members who were 65 or older to the United Arab Emirates to receive privately obtained vaccines. In Britain, the vaccination is only available through the National Health Service. So you're in a line and there's priority, etc., etc. You know, in many ways similar to what's happening here.

Since going public with the offer, the club, which arranges luxury experiences and accommodation for its members, has received more than 2,000 applications for membership and thousands of phone calls, emails, and social media requests, according to Mr. McNeil. He also wrote in response to emailed questions that his organization has been approached by several private jet companies looking to team with the club to transport those who wanted to be vaccinated.

On Friday, that's last Friday, his organization announced that it would begin selling vaccines to people who were not previously members of the club for the price of £10,000 per person, as long as individuals are 65 or older, or can prove that they have underlying health conditions. Knightsbridge Circle will ask for proof of this when booking, a spokesman wrote in an email. The vaccines will come as part of a three-week membership package, but that package will not include anything beyond the vaccine and transport to and from the airport and vaccination sites.

Interested parties will have to book airfare and three weeks' worth of accommodations themselves. For Mr. McNeil's clients, the real fun will come once the inoculations are done. Some of those who expect to be vaccinated in the UAE have been looking to schedule specialized excursions after they are inoculated. He said, adding, desert safari seems to be the most popular. Members who travel to the UAE will stay in the country for the required time before a second dose. All right, it does go on. There's lots more in this article, which you can find on the New York Times website. But I don't know.

How do you feel about that? Where's your head on this whole idea of paying for a vaccine. Now, listen, we saw the example earlier this week of that couple who flew to the Yukon, including on a charter plane, the last part of it, to jump the queue and get vaccinated. They got caught, and who knows what's going to happen to them. But this was a whole issue. Remember that I raised with General Hillier earlier in the game,

how are you going to prevent abuse of the system? And what's abuse? I mean, there are some Canadians who are also residents of the U.S. or have homes in the U.S., you know, snowbirds, who can fly to certain places like Florida and get a vaccination if they're the right age. Now, is that wrong? Would you do it?

What would you pay for a vaccine? Let's say it's made clear you can pay for a vaccine if you find somebody who is independently and legally selling vaccines. What would you pay to jump the queue, pay for a vaccine? Do you think that's right? Do you think that's something in Canada you should be allowed to do? And how do you feel about those who are stepping outside the country, going through whatever quarantining they need to do to do this,

and getting the vaccine? You okay with that? I wouldn't mind hearing from you on that. Tomorrow's the weekend special, as you know, and Fridays is for your thoughts and comments and questions. You know, I have a fair amount already. I got three or four beautiful letters on the special we did on Tuesday of the couple, one's a teacher, and how they're dealing with this whole issue of homeschooling because they've got two little kids as well as their jobs and the pressures and how tense that situation can become.

I got some great letters on that, and I want to read at least a couple of those. But if you, and there's the usual collection of letters on a variety of different things have already come in, but I would love to hear what you think about this whole idea of paying for a vaccine, to jump the queue, to get out of the line, if you can afford it, while others obviously can't. And that kind of money that they're talking about. So, you know, drop me a line, themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com, themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com, love to hear it.

Friday's the weekend special. As I said, we'll have your thoughts. We're targeting Monday for the new bridge. We're just going through the, I mean, the deal's all done. It's just the logistics and making sure technically this is going to work. It should have no impact on you. You should be getting the bridge exactly the same way you're getting it right now. It may sound a little different, toying with some new music.

In some cases, on some platforms, there will be sponsorship before the bridge starts and possibly one short sponsorship in the middle of the bridge. Time for you to stretch out a little bit, but short, no more than 60 seconds. And that's going to help with a lot of things, as you will see in the months ahead. The bridge is going to maintain its natural style, and we're going to keep doing the kind of things we do. We're not a newscast, but we do try to stay relatively current and bring things to you that perhaps

you haven't heard elsewhere and discussions. So that'll all stay, but there are some exciting new developments that are going to happen as well. And I think you'll be interested in that, to hear about that. So with any luck, things will start on Monday. It'll take a few weeks to, you know, to get things in the groove, as they say. But hopefully it will all work to all our advantages. And maybe I'll do a little short five-minute or something on Sunday just to let you know that it's definitely going to start on Monday. Anyway, I'm rambling because that's what I do.

Okay. Tomorrow, the weekend special. Don't miss it. It's always fun. And yesterday's Smoke Mirrors and the Truth of Bruce Anderson out of Ottawa has been very popular in the early going. I see you looking at the downloads and it seems like you got into that stuff about whether it was the Governor General or Aaron O'Toole or this really interesting thing from Axios about

the news agency that has determined it will not have opinion on its, I was going to say newscast. It's not really a newscast, but it's podcast, it's broadcast, it's online versions. It's not going to offer opinion. It's just going to offer what it believes are the facts. It's an interesting discussion. We had some of that yesterday on smoke mirrors and the truth. All right, I'm going to move on. Thanks so much for listening on this day, Thursday, week 46. I'm Peter Mansbridge. This has been The Bridge. Thanks so much for listening.

We'll talk to you again in 24 hours. Thank you.