The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Our Changing World - What Are We Missing?

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Our weekly conversation with Dr Janice Stein from the Munk School at the University of Toronto. New developments in Venezuela, special "rich mineral" visitors at the White House,  and the latest from Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You're just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. What are we missing? That's the question for Janice Stein. Coming right up. And hello there. Welcome to Monday. Peter Mansbridge here.

Beginning of yet another new week. And how do we always start weeks? We always started the same way with Dr. Janice. Stein from the Monk School of the University of Toronto. And every once in a while, we do a special program with her that we title, What Are We Missing? In other words, what are the stories that we haven't been talking about? Well, today it's kind of a mix of some we have been talking about and some we haven't

been talking about, which we probably should have. So we'll get to Dr. Stein in just a few moments' time. The other thing we always do on Monday is give you the question of the week. And the question of the week this week kind of comes out of what we witnessed last week. An incredible week in Canadian politics. There was the budget, of course, but there was all a lot of chaos inside the Conservative Party. With MPs talking about crossing the floor, one actually did, others seemingly having discussed crossing the floor, but they ended up just quitting politics.

or allegedly going to quit politics. So a lot of stuff going on and obviously as a result, new questions about the leadership of Pierre Pahliav and the Conservative Party. So given all that, here's our question. Our question of the week is this. What do you think when you hear about a politician

crossing the floor to join another party in other words leaving the party that he or she was elected for by the people of Canada or the people of a riding or people of a province

or people in a city when they announced they're going to cross the floor no matter what the public had done in voting them into a certain position so there's your question What do you think when you hear about a politician? Could be an MP or an MPP or MNA or an MLA crossing the floor to join another party.

What do you think about when you hear that? Does it make sense? Is it a betrayal? What is it? What is it? the Mansbridge podcast at gmail.com the Mansbridge podcast at

gmail.com have it in by 6pm Eastern Time on Wednesday always include your name and the location you're writing from okay there you go those are the rules and we follow them every week and you follow them

and it's been really good ever since we started ensuring that you follow those guidelines. Actually, there are more than guidelines. They're the rule. Okay. So please follow it and look forward to hearing what you have to say on that question.

What do you think when you hear about a politician crossing the floor to join another party? So look forward to hearing your answers on that. A quick snapshot of the week ahead because it's a little different week. Tomorrow is Remembrance Day. And as a result, our regular Tuesday lineup will be different. Tomorrow for Remembrance Day, the plan is to repeat last week's Remembrance Day show. Your answers on the question of what Remembrance Day means to you, because it was really quite something.

So what we would normally do on that particular Tuesday of this week would be the Moore-Buts conversation, number 28 now. We're going to run that on Wednesday. And James Moore, Jerry Butts, what they're going to discuss this week is all the stuff that happened last week between the budget and all the chaotic maneuvering

going on inside the Conservative Party and inside the Liberal Party, quite frankly. So those discussions will, be the basis for the more buds conversation number 28 that'll be Wednesday this week okay and then the rest of the week will fall out as usual your turn the random renter he'll be back this Thursday and good talk on Friday with Chantelle and Bruce another huge week last week for good talk okay heard enough from me want to hear from Janice Stein of course you do So let's bring into the program, Dr. Janice Stein from the Monk School at the University of Toronto.

All right, Janice, let's start with something that we have, in fact, touched on in the last four to six weeks, and that's Venezuela. It's always been unclear as the Americans build up their forces, what they actually are planning about Venezuela. Do we know any more this week? We do. We do. And we know from leaks from so-called senior officials in the White House. And by the way, Peter, when we start to get those, that usually means there's division inside the White House. And one side or another is telling their story first.

And what apparently is going on is Marco Rubio and Stephen Miller. are pressing hard to use these military assets, which are just astonishing, that are now in the Caribbean. They dwarf anything Venezuela has to oust Maduro. The goal is really to oust Maduro. It is not to intercept narco-traffickers, despite the fact that they have done this already 17 times. But who's hesitating? Trump. He wants to make sure that he is not going to be pulled in to another forever war. And he wants to know how he can secure the oil fields. So to the extent this is about getting rid of Maduro for Trump, it's clearly about the oil field. So how could they do it? And here's where the military planners get.

involved. You know, this big, clunky aircraft carrier, the Ford, the Gerald Ford, is on its way to the Caribbean. It will be there now in a matter of days. You know, there are some 20,000 military fighters from the Navy, from the Air Force, but most interestingly, they're Special Ops Forces. Special ops, you know well what that's cold for. Sure. That's cold for we're going to send some people ashore and hope that they can get the job done. So what leaked out this week, Peter? And frankly, I'll just say none of it really makes sense to me. But the first is that there would be airstrikes against military facilities in Venezuela. And the closest allies for Venezuela, Russia, Cuba, and Nicaragua.

So there's some risk there, frankly. But what would that accomplish? How would that get Majuro out? The worst one is to stand in. special ops in an effort to either kidnap, capture, or kill Majore Oaks. Have you heard this one before somewhere else? We heard it in Panama. I mean, we've heard it a number of places, right?

Yeah. And it's fraught with risk and danger and lots of things can go wrong. Special ops, I mean, they're some of the best in the world of special operations guys that the Americans have, not as good as Canada. by the way, but still pretty good. And, but, you know, they go in under the cover of darkness. They, you know, they drop in from helicopters to wherever they're going to go to, to capture this guy if they know for sure where he is.

You can be sure he's going to be moving around every night, just like Saddam Hussein did. Of course he is, right? And not only that, this is so telegraphed this operation, he has special. guards too, whose sole job is to protect him. He wouldn't be here, frankly, if he didn't have very loyal special units around him. And the other thing that is true in Venezuela, it's not only the army. Just to take a step back for a second, what does the Venezuelan army look like? Rusty old Russian equipment, frankly, you know, you can count. You can count. You can count, the number of Sukoi fighters, but what does that mean?

They are so outclassed by anything that the United States would have. On the other side of the ledger, he has what are called collectivos, which, again, the Spanish word tells us, neighborhood militias that are ready to go. They're loyal to him, and they would fight. in the urban areas, which is the absolute nightmare, frankly. And I think the Americans, certainly in the military, are well aware of this. The other thing is that he has something called the Bolivarian, after Simon Bolivar, the Bolivarian militia, paramilitary groups.

You know, we've seen these groups operate. In Iran, they're the besiege. They are not formally military. They don't have the same discipline. They're trained to kill. They don't worry much about rules of engagement or rules of war or anything like that. And allegedly, allegedly, there's 150,000 if you put both these militias together. That's not a small number.

Where is the legality in all this? I mean, it's one thing to be picking boats out of international waters. You know, Associated Press, by the way, is not quite a piece this weekend on determining who these people were in these boats. I mean, it's pretty clear they were moving drugs. But it's not like they were narco-terrorists like you'd see in a movie. These were like, you know, unemployed young teenagers, you know, for a hundred, $100 would agree to move a boat from A to B.

But anyway, there's, you know, it's one thing to be dealing with that. It's another thing to be basically invading a country, dropping in on the presidential palace or wherever it is, the Maduro is hiding out, and, you know, killing or capturing people and hauling them out of there. That's like, how does, how do you justify this? Look, I don't think these attacks on boats killing unidentified people because you're killing them before really you know who they are you find out after in many many cases i don't think that's legal

peter and what's really interesting is that the trump white house lawyers have not provided a legal justification there's no six-page document that lays out the legal justification for even what's going on now you know when did this up last time. It came up under Obama when Obama was using long-distance airstrikes to take out

individual members of al-Qaeda. Well, who knows that was legal or not? Well, his chief legal advisor was Harold Cole, formerly the dean of law school at Yale. And there was a long legal document.

that laid out the principle, the legal principles under which Obama was acting. Was it tested in court? No, but there was a legal document. There's not even a pretence here of a legal argument for what's going on thus far. For a preemptive military strike and, you know, the third big option, and you can almost see it would make a kind of sense of your American military because the other two are so risky is you bomb the air, fields and you secure the oil fields.

I mean, that's something at least that you could argue the military know how to do. There's absolutely no legal justification whatsoever for doing that. There's none. And I don't think the majority of governments in Latin America, as much as they don't like Maduro and as much as they want him gone, I don't think they would support this because they've seen the United States do a version of this before in the past. Well, you know, as we said earlier, this has to go right from the get-go and go quickly if this is what they're going to do. Because so much can go wrong and go wrong quickly. Yeah.

that they could have a real mess on their hands. And, you know, it really, here, something has to happen within the next three weeks, because they're not going to leave these kinds of military assets on deployment in the Caribbean for long. So if they're being sent there for a reason, there's no reason to delay. And that's why I think that the leaks are coming out now. because they must be, in fact, in much more serious discussions about which of these options they're going to do. None of them are any good, frankly, to be honest, even the one that, the third one, which has strike the airfields and secure the oil fields, striking the airfields from the air, is not going to make much of a difference given the quality of Maduro's Russian-based, you know, last year. Air Force. And how do you secure the oil fields on the ground? That's an asset that Maduro

knows he lives and dies by, right? And we have to keep reminding ourselves. When we're talking of Venezuelan oil, we're talking about the largest reserves in the world. Yes. Yes. Bigger than everybody else. Yes. You know, you remember 30 years ago in the Middle East under the present bushes, different taunts. Well, let's just take over the Saudi oil fields, right? That's the easiest. Remember those stories? And there were obviously planners.

You know, those two had the wisdom not to do that. But there's something so almost confounding. The Saudi oil fields belong to Saudi Arabia. Venezuelan oil belongs to Venezuelans. They have a government that, you know, has kept itself and power through all kinds of illegal means. And it is important to say that all the political and diplomatic options have been exhausted over the last five or six years. They know about Peace Prize winner, but Chado isn't hiding. It's really, it's hard to think of a diplomatic option that would move Maduro at this point.

But that's no justification to use military force legally, just not. Does Trump have any allies on this? I mean, from outside of America. Is there another country that's saying, we're with you on this? No. It's hard to think of who, right? The Russians, surely not. The Chinese, oh, absolutely not.

nobody in the European Union. Can I know, I mean, you remember Christopher Freeland when she was foreign minister, organized a conference with OAS members that was held in Vancouver, which looked at all the diplomatic means that could be used to increase pressure. And that includes boycotts, I mean, everything. But there was never a hint. that Canada would support the use of unilateral American military force to take over Venezuelan oil fields, which is what I think that is the key objective, be along with Majuro. Let's just make one other point here because this is such an important story that we've seen over.

When you have a regime like Maduro's, how do you stay in power? you buy off the senior military, you give them huge chunks of the economy in which they make lots of money in very corrupt ways. You know, the IRGC in Iran, the Republican Guards owns an enormous share of the Iranian economy. It's true in Egypt too. This is an old playbook, and buying the loyalty of senior officials is how you keep them in power. Well, when push comes to shove, they're loyal to Madurov because when that's over, it's all over for them. Yeah, I appreciate that and I understand that, but we have seen how, you know, these Republican guards, if you want to call them, and we see them in Iran. We saw them in, you know, Iraq, you know, standing next to Saddam Hussein until the Americans are.

arrived and then they crumbled like a dirty suit, you know. Well, you know, it's really interesting. Yeah, I mean, they still went around and they were, and they, you know, created a civil war, which created a hell of a mess for the Americans. But nevertheless, they folded at the critical moment in terms of the invasion. Yeah. And when the, you know, the Nicaraguan army, or sorry, the Venezuelan army, if they're going to put up a defense, You know, they better be ready if the Americans are coming in full force.

I mean, it's going to be ugly. Let's look again what full force is here. 20,000 troops. That's all, right? 5,000 sailors that are on the Ford and 10,000 airmen. There's no ground troops there, Peter. Well, ground troops. There's special ops.

Ground troops just don't play. in many fights anymore, unless you're talking Ukraine and Russia. It's a, you know, a different kind of war. But special ops are special ops, and they, you know, anyway. You know why this matters? Let's just spend one more minute on before we move on, because in the Iraqi case, the American army invaded, highly disciplined army. And you're right, the Iraqi forces loyal to Saddam Hussein, you know,

disappeared, melted into the population when the American Army was in Baghdad. It didn't happen when there were airstrikes. Right. Right now, we're talking about air strikes largely, and 5,000 sailors. You know, they could be Marines, who knows,

who couldn't deploy on the ground. But I don't think the Venezuelan military, given the high stakes for them, will crumble unless there are, you know, U.S. forces on the ground surrounding the presidential palace, and they see the game is up. You have to put boots on the ground. And that's what Trump fears the most. That's what he doesn't want to do. Okay.

So here's my prediction. They're going to end up in the worst of all possible worlds, Peter. and what's that what not having the right capabilities and leave out the law for a moment not having the right capabilities to deploy on the ground that you have to take some casualties to actually take baduro out you try to do this from the air and see you fail and in fact everybody in the region is unified against the effort well you know we're going to we're going to see this and then we're going to see we can see what kind of armchair generals we were when we when if in fact this happens we see how it happens because i mean special ops go in they don't just go for maduro they'll go for the generals yeah the key military people around him and they will isolate that Venezuelan army away from its leadership and which that's the You know, there's a very capable, just to back up what you're saying, Peter, right now, there's a very, very capable unit, one of the most capable special ops unit in U.S. forces, the 160th Regiment.

That's got a reputation for being one of the very best. So there's reasons for you to make the argument, it just it. Well, they're probably sitting on a carrier somewhere right now, waiting. Okay, let's move on Because it sounds like we'll know the answer to that question One way or the other in the next couple of weeks Here's one for you We're talking about stuff going on in the White House

For those who remember their Soviet socialist republics One of the things about some of them Was they all ended in the phrase stand You know, there was, you know, there was a whole slew of them, right, in terms of the possibilities of Kurdistan, et cetera, et cetera. So a number of these former Soviet Socialist Republics that end in STA-N, I've been hanging out at the White House lately. What's that all about? You know, you're right. This is a story that's almost a throwback story.

They had all the stands, all five. of them, we're at the White House. You know, there's Kazakhstan who's in the news for other reasons. There's Kyrgyzstan, there's Uzbekistan, there's Turkmenistan, and Tajikistan, I think, is the fifth. All former members of the Soviet Union, first time ever in history. That's why I kind of sat up. All five of them met in the White House this past week with Donald Trump. And by the way, Vladimir Putin must just hate that is the only way to describe it.

He must absolutely hate it. What did they do? They signed agreements on critical minerals. These Central Asian republics are so rich in critical minerals. That is now probably a single most important commodity in the global economy. economy. Pulling them out of the ground is one thing. Processing them is another. It's among the dirtiest activities there is. It pollutes. It is really difficult and it's polluting. And that's probably why China controls 90% of it. Because other countries like Canada, for example, despite all

the rhetoric, it is hard to get social license. for processing critical minerals that would be that polluting. Well, it's not a problem in former Soviet republics. The public doesn't get a say, first of all, and it's just not a problem. Well, Donald Trump signed agreements are already, I think, something like $12 billion worth of deals, as he describes them, with his newfound friends. And this meeting was to deepen that partnership, that critical minerals that are important, you know, for manufacturing jet fighters, for making microwaves. So they're not, and I use those too, because one's at the top of the value chain, the other is something most of us use every day. You can't make them if you don't have access to these critical minerals.

Central Asia is front and center for the United States now as a partner. So these deals are done deals now? These deals, I think there were some $12 billion worth of deals that were done already. What this trip to the White House was, thank you. You get a visit to the White House and you meet Donald Trump. And oh, by the way, let's do more. So the $12 billion is already what has been signed. And the next round is now forthcoming.

You know, at the front of the line is Kazakhstan. And you may have noticed how Donald Trump sometimes threads the needle and connects to stories. Kazakhstan is the newest member of the Abraham Accords. he made that announcement at the White House, too. The Abraham Accords are the Accords that Donald Trump engineered in his first term. These are Arab and Muslim countries that are willing to work with Israel. Now, what he didn't say was that Kazakhstan has longstanding diplomatic relations with Israel that preceded this. But in his comments, this was one more example of how Donald Trump magically is pushing this agenda forward and broadening the Abraham Accords.

Well, the one country that he really wants to get involved in the Abraham Accords is Saudi Arabia. Yes. And guess who's coming to town in the next little while from Saudi Arabia? Yes. I mean, so Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. is making a visit to Washington and to the United States. Again, just to look back a little bit, you know, a brief flush of enthusiasm for bin Salman as a modern prince was going to modernize Saudi economy until he thought that the way to deal with a journalist who reports on some of what was going on in Saudi economy. until he thought that the way to deal with a journalist who reports on some of what was going on in Saudi Arabia, Jamal Khashoggi, was to kill him and to dismember the body and put the pieces of his body in suitcases.

Well, Jamal Khashoggi was a reporter for the Washington Post as well as others, and there was a deep freeze on relations with Saudi Arabia. What does this visit mean, Peter? And it was one thing for Joe Biden to go to Riyadh and, you know, do a fist bump with bin Salman. And Donald Trump was just in Saudi Arabia in May for a royal welcome of the kind that would put the Windsors to shame, frankly, in terms of the higrantry. that there was, you know, in the desert for that one. I just happened to be in Saudi Arabia the same day. It was something to behold, I can tell you, to watch that.

But now he's being invited to the United States, which really means we're turning a page. That's over. And the partnership is two ways. It's on all the assets that Saudi Arabia. which are energy assets. It's also on AI, which is a really stunning story.

Just to take a minute to tell you what it is, and that's why I was there to look at what Saudi Arabia was doing on AI. They've been able to assemble the whole package and control. It's a sovereign capability on AI. We're going to hear that language in Canada. So what does that mean in Saudi Arabia? First of all, they're going to educate their kids from grade three right up to university on using AI in a coherent strategy. Just think about that one in Canada, how we would do that with 12 provincial governments and 13 territories and all the jurisdictions.

The second thing they're doing is they're building data. data centers, which have these unbelievable demands for energy, which few countries can actually meet, and certainly not Europe or Canada, even Canada or the United States. I can't remember one data center would consume the electricity of a medium-sized city in the United States. That's the order of magnitude we're talking. And the final piece, they have a very highly trained workforce in which, by the way, women are really prominently represented. As leaders, that's a big change in Saudi Arabia.

But the fourth thing is, they need access to chips, to these advanced computer chips. And when Donald Trump wasn't Saudi Arabia, he promised that that they would get. access to the latest Nvidia chips, which very few allies get hasn't happened yet. There's a bit of a lag from May

until November, and I think that is a big reason why Mohammed bin Salman is in the United States. We'll be coming to the United States. Wow. Okay. So you see who matters to the United States right now.

Yeah, no, and everything you've said to us so far in this program, for different reasons and in different ways, all these other countries matter, big time. Yeah. And it's perhaps not so surprising that he can be so dismissive of Canada at a time we're trying to make deals. Okay. I'm going to take a break, and we come back.

We've spent a lot of time on this, so we don't have a long time. to go here, but there's something more directly about Canada. We'll do that right after this. And welcome back. You're listening to The Bridge, the Monday episode with Dr. Janice Stein from the Monk School, the University of Toronto. This is a kind of what are we missing program this week because we were catching up

on a lot of stuff and bringing some new stuff onto the forefront of your thoughts for the days and weeks ahead. Okay, something that happened, Janice, well, I'm supposed to remind everybody what they're listening to. They're listening to Sirius XM Channel 167 Canada Talks or you're listening to us on your favorite podcast platform.

Last week was Budget Week in Canada and there was a lot of things going on. Most of it was the intrigue that happens on Parliament Hill between parties, but in the budget, among a lot of other things, was this huge amount of money that's going to be used for defense spending in the next short time to meet NATO commitments, to meet the desire to improve Canada's forces, to do Arctic sovereignty, to do a lot of different stuff, new ships, new planes, new tanks, or new armaments for the army of me. How are they going to do all this?

Yeah, I think that's a big story. Peter, this huge infusion of cash, and they haven't been able to spend the money that they were given in the last budget, right? So nobody's writing about that. No, you're absolutely right. It's so strange. There was all this money set aside for defense spending,

and it wasn't used, not all of it was used. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that's a big, big. So what's going to happen? You know, they're going to put the money in envelopes, but it's not going to move out the door at anything like the pace that Canadians would expect because of the lack of capacity inside. So two other things to watch for, okay, by Canadians.

First of all, there's a new defense procurement agency that actually got funded in this trosh. They are standing it up now, and why is that? And who is it going to be headed by? It's going to be headed by somebody who is a great reputation, that goes from RBC. So they pulled somebody in from the private sector to run this in an effort to unlock all the blockages that have stopped us for years from buying what we know. need in a timely play in a timely way. And when we have an off week sometimes, we should talk about why this happens, right?

Because it's a fascinating story. But it's just being stood up now. You know Ottawa. This is not lightning speed, but they are in the right place that they're going to bring all the players together under one roof to fight it out at the table. in order to get procurement moving.

There's one other piece to watch for it, Peter, which we haven't had before, which is coming in the next week, month or so, and it's called reviving Canada's defense industrial base. And why does that matter? Because that's an economic strategy, as well as the defense strategy. So this is really different for Canada.

The jobs creation strategy and the growth strategy for the Canadian economy is a story about what we do with defense. Which is amazing. Yeah. Who's setting the priorities here? How do you set priorities? In terms of defense spending, you know, some of the bright, shiny objects that immediately come to mind are submarines. Not in this budget. Not in this budget.

That's not what this is. No, next year, future years, but not in this budget. I thought there was a rush for submarines. Yeah, well, not this year, not this year, not in the $9 billion that were allocated for this year. Not even a start on it. I mean, they've been trotting around the world, Carney and his defense minister. and his energy minister, and a number of different people

have been trotting around the world looking at submarines. Yeah. That doesn't mean they can't sign contracts, but there's no expenditure attached to it in this budget, okay? But here's to me the bigger story that we're going to talk about it 20 times over the next two years. There's a jobs creation strategy.

I mean, so two ministries. are involved. Industry science and economic development, which Melanesha Lee runs, and defense, which David McGinty runs, who sets priorities? You have to get at least these two ministers to agree.

In order, you know, defense bristles and says, we set priorities for Canada's defense forces. We know what we need. And the minister was responsible for job creation and economic Growth says, yeah, but these priorities have to create opportunities. Any point?

I'm getting a headache listening to this. I thought this was all going to change. We're going to mainstream, you know, fast track a lot of this stuff. What's the job creation opportunities in summary? What's the job creation opportunities when we buy new aircraft? That's one part of the story. That's the job stories. There's a second story.

How much should Canadian companies be in the front of this? Because that's the growth story, right? That's the growth story. Every Canadian tech company I know who understands the story. and is now repositioning themselves to make dual-use technology. In other words, technology that can be used in the civilian and the military sector. We're going to see a big change in the Canadian economy, Peter. You're going to have to know something about defense to understand the Canadian economy,

and you're going to have to understand the Canadian economy to understand what happens on the defense side. That's the new world. are we going to start to see that new world? I mean, you see it on paper now, but when are you going to actually see it? Yeah, wow. That soon, eh?

You know what? The end of, here's a safe bet, okay? You know, the end of the fiscal year in Ottawa is the end of March, March 31st. It's different from the year that most of us. I don't think we'll see before then.

That's a very short time. December's a right off as we all know in any large organization in Canada. So we really, frankly, have three and a half months. We're not going to see it. What we may see are one or two big announcements about what we intend to buy in the following years. That is not going to produce the economic benefits at pace. in real time that Canadians are expecting from this government.

So there's a misalignment of expectations here, but how fast this can go. You're so polite, a misalignment of expectations. Okay. All that guarantees us we're going to have an opportunity to talk about this lots more in the coming days and months. We're going to leave it at that for this week, Janice. Lots to ponder, as always, and thanks for your time.

We'll talk to you again in a week. Be in a week. Dr. Janice Stein, Monk School, University of Toronto. And as always, great to talk to Dr. Stein. We feel so much more informed every Monday. And I guess it's not just more informed. It's she makes us think, right? She often says, don't have to agree with me.

But if I get you thinking, I've accomplished what I hope to do. So there we go. Reminder that tomorrow is Remembrance Day. Please, if you have an opportunity, go to a Remembrance Day service. Or watch one. As always, the CBC. is front and center on Remembrance Day with coverage from the nation's capital of the National Remembrance Day Service at the National War Memorial.

Adrian Arsenal will be there covering that story. And other networks do their thing. On Tuesday morning, I'll be in Hamilton at the Canadian War Heritage Museum, Aircraft War War Plane Heritage Museum at Mount Hope in Hamilton. That's where the Lancaster is based. I've been there many times.

It's always a special moment for me. My father was one of those many who flew in Lancaster's during the Second World War. And so I look forward to that Remembrance Day service and I'll be speaking for a few moments there as well. That's tomorrow. We're here on this program. We will repeat last Thursday's your turn,

which was a special Remembrance Day, your turn, with your memories of Remembrance Day. What you think of on Remembrance Day. Wednesday, for this week only on a Wednesday, it will be the Moore-Buds conversation number 28 and it's a good one will be a very good one I'm sure as it always is

Thursday is your turn a new your turn and you heard the question what do you think of when you hear about a politician crossing the floor to another party what goes through your mind when you hear that random rancher on Thursday as well and then good talk of course on Friday

that's going to do it for today. Hope you enjoyed the launch of yet another week right here on the bridge. I'm Peter Mansbridge. Thanks so much for listening and we will talk to you again in less than 24 hours.