The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Putin Owns Trump -- Again

Episode Date: October 19, 2026

This could become a weekly series. Dr. Janice Stein again this week talks about how Russian leader Vladimir Putin somehow convinces Donald Trump to waive sanctions against his country. We'll deal with that, plus what's behind the widespread riots in France. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You're just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. It's Monday. Dr. Janice Stein is here. We're going to talk Putin again. Putin owns Trump. Yeah, no kidding, eh? Especially after the last week.

We'll talk about that and more right after this. Welcome to another week. Peter Mansprich here with the Bridge. I'm back in Scotland. Crazy last month of back and forth across the ocean a number of times. various work-related things that I've been involved with, got them all done. So probably this is going to be the last week in Scotland for a while and back to Canada. Hopefully for, well, for the rest of the fall and the winter.

And looking forward to that. But a bit of jet lag. of the last little while. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. We got Dr. Janice Stein coming up in a couple of minutes time. I wanted to go over a couple of things with you. As I mentioned last week, we're only a couple of weeks away now from the launch of my latest book,

along with my co-author, Mark Bulguch. It's called Noble Profession. It's all about teachers. And we're very proud of it. And we hope that you will be too when you read our stories of Canadian teachers, what they go through, what their challenges are, and what their successes are. Now, what would society be without teachers? We've all got teacher stories.

All of us do. All of us are shaped in some fashion by our teachers. Think about that. Anyway, next week, Mark will be on the program. We'll do a special show just kind of launching our book. And then we'll let Simon and Schuster, our publisher, take over the big launch and sending us various places around the country

to talk about a noble profession. And we look forward to that. Our question of the week this week is a kind of, well, in some ways it's kind of related. because it's about books. It's not about teachers. It's about books. So here's the question.

Well, you go, pick what you want out of these questions. How many books do you read in a month? How many books do you read in a year? And, you know, we'll include, you know, audio books, because I know a lot of people now use audiobooks, especially when they're driving around. They use audio books and good for them. So that's still going to,

that's still going to classify as a book. Well, of course, it's a book. That still classifies for these questions. What kind of books do you read or listen to? Is reading important to you? Or, you know, how about this? Do you use a library? So they're all kind of book-related questions.

It's about the question is about books and your association with books. So think about that, all right? no more than 75 words. Have your answer in by 3 p.m. Eastern time on Wednesday. That's this Wednesday. So you've got two days. Include your name and the location you're writing from.

Those are the conditions you've got to meet them. Please check your letter before you push send. Right? Because there's still a lot of you forget like one of those things. It's not hard. Location. Name. No more than 75 words.

Have it in by 3 p.m. Eastern Time on Wednesday. Got it? I know you do. So look forward to hearing from you on that. Okay, we have three topics in our conversation today with Dr. Janice Stein from the long school to the University of Toronto. And you've probably guessed what the first one is. So let's get a question.

right to it. Here we go. On a day when there's, you know, lots of happening in Canada. Terrible situation at CFB. Wainwright over the weekend. We're still putting the pieces together of what exactly happened, why it happened, and how it happened. But we know there were fatalities, and it's a terribly sad story as a result of that. Albertans go to the polls today with their big questions

that relate to referendum and provincial power. I think it's going to be a while before we know the answers from that vote. It won't be tonight. Almost certainly won't be tonight. Could be well into tomorrow or even later. So as we always do on Mondays with Dr. Stein, we're talking about our changing world, the nature of it.

And there's certainly stuff on this one today. Here we go, our conversation with Dr. Janice Stein. So Janice, last week we talked about Putin and Trump and what Putin must have on Trump to get him to dance the way he wants to all the time. And, you know, there was a lot of reaction to that. I got a lot of me, a lot of people still talking about it. And even more now, you know, after another week of this,

it reminds me I go back to that 2616 debate with Trump and Hillary Clinton remember there was that moment where she said you're Putin's puppet and he

he looked a little rocked by it but immediately came back with no you're Putin's puppet and then they kind of moved on but when you think about that now in relation to everything that's happened since in his first term and in his second term

especially in this past, you know, two weeks. She was right. He's Putin's public. She was absolutely right, Peter. You know, I think it was Tom Friedman in an opinion column in the New York Times this week. That called Donald Trump Neville Chamberlain. You know, and he's not wrong. He has, Donald Trump has totally betrayed an ally.

For what, right? On the surface of it, for access to diesel fuel that is not going to get there in time to shift voters in the Midwest. Because that's what this comes down to. And that's what he talks about all the time. But it's mind-boggling. It's mind-boggling, frankly, that he could do this. This is not just some dispute.

He has cut off an ally from the defenses that it needs as the country is being bombarded. I think Hillary Clinton was too mild. She was too mild because it doesn't begin to capture really what a betrayal this is. And then how does anybody trust them? Anybody, anybody in Europe and Canada, you know, in the Middle East, how do you trust this man that when he is, what he thinks is his self-interest, right? Because it's all about an election right now at home. How do you trust him that he's not going to throw you overboard?

Who would believe him? Yeah, listen, we could have said that too, right, on the trade negotiations. He signed a deal in his first term, which he's, basically reneging on and saying was a terrible deal at the time he said it was the greatest deal in history of deals um yeah so you know how how do we trust him on on something as simple as trade you said the you know this diesel situation's not going to get there in time even if it got there in time it's nothing it sounds like a lot it's a you know 300 to 800 000 tons of Russian deal. That sounds like, wow, that's a lot of diesel. But when you consider, they use 30 million

barrels a day globally of diesel. That's nothing. It isn't, it isn't, and he must know that. You know, his energy secretary must have told him that. And look, if you actually look at what he's doing, Peter, he's only visiting red states largely. Now, He's going to rallies where he, you know, the crowd is still there for him. So he's in the heart of MAGA country, Trump. He's fundamentally encircled in a defensive posture. That's really where he is when you look at where how many days out now from the U.S. election? Very short.

Yeah. And so he. He must have said to himself, because who knows how he thinks, but he must have said to himself, oh, this will matter it. It's tiny. It's not what you said. So doing all this and betraying an ally and make, you know, and Carney got a right. He said, the agreement is written in pencil.

Who signs agreements written in pencil? That was a phrase that he used the morning after. But that's the feeling everywhere in the world. It's the feeling in Europe. It's the feeling in Canada. Who wants to sign an agreement written in pencil? What does that tell us about the United States now? Well, it certainly tells us a lot about Trump himself personally.

Yeah. But you're quite right. What does it tell us about the United States? For the length of this second term of Trump, the world has been waiting to see whether Republicans were going to stand up. Yeah. And do something. Yeah.

They seem to be, well, at least getting. Stirring. Yeah, stirring. They seem to be at least lifting their knees off the ground a little bit. They haven't quite stood up yet, but they have, there has been movement. Yeah. You know, that's, I think, the biggest question. Everybody's focused on these midterm elections, which are.

next week. And there's any Canada, you know, overwhelmingly because there's so much at stake for us. And I think, you know, Canadians as a whole will be very happy to see a stinking defeat for Trump in the House. And, you know, a lot of people are saying,

well, he's going to lose control of the Senate when they count the six seats that are in contention there. I have to tell you, I'm more reserved here. I look at this man, you know, this is all ego all the way down, all narcissism, all the way down. He's going to come out of this a loser. And he hates a loser more than anything else, and he hates to be a loser.

That's the worst insult for Donald Trump. You're a loser. He's going to be a loser. He's going to, there's no more constraint around him after this, really. He doesn't have to worry about any more elections. He's done. There is a real possibility that we're going to get completely unconstrained, Donald Trump, for an eternity of 27 months.

That's on a short time. Yes, you know, the, the consulate, Congress will act much more like the Congress normally does, and they'll be able to constrain. But not all that much, Peter. You have to tell Congress, you have to get authorization from Congress after you declare war, unless you call it a military operation, like Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, we're not at war.

But it's 60 days. Presidents are just not that constrained. and an angry, humiliated Donald Trump who just wants to score points on anybody who thinks betrayed him, we could be in for very, very tough two and a half years, two and a quarter years. I have the same reservations you do, but I also have reservations about the vote in a couple of weeks. you know, some of these raises are very close. You know, the Democrats are ahead, if you believe, the polls. But in some of those key states, only by a couple of points.

You know, basically within the margin of error. Right. So things can happen. And what we've, what history has taught us in these last few elections is that the pollsters tend to underestimate the Republican vote. Yes. And, you know, some Republicans voters may be saying they're not going to vote or they're not going to vote for him, but who knows what will happen when they walk in that ballot box, you know, into the ballot bowl of the voting area,

especially with, for some of them, we are thinking one thing only, $5,000 if he wins. That's what he's promising us. Now, even if they win, I'd be shocked if he actually figured out a way to give them $5,000 because he's made these similar kind of promises before not delivered. But we're not talking about him. We're talking about them. Some of the people who are going to go vote are going to vote for that reason and that reason. Yes.

Yeah. And you know, you're so right that particularly the Trump vote gets underestimated. For a Republican vote, it's the Trump vote. Because people, you know, they're the people that are convinced the system is rigged, as he says. They're the people that say, oh, don't trust the elite, don't trust these institutions. So when pollsters come around, they're suspicious. Who are you? I don't know you.

I'm not going to talk to you and tell you what I think. And these are the voters that more tend to be angry. two weeks I was a very short time to turn around the polls that if you believe them even if there's a margin of error he should still lose the house

frankly but boy I think on November the 5th when we all wake up that Wednesday morning after there'll be people who are partying night, but I think they're going to wake up to a very sober morning because this man,

there are no, you know, it's absolutely stunning. There were no limits. There are no limits. And that's what the rest of us run up against again and again. Oh, he can't do that. No president would do that. He does. You know, you talked in, in many, others have talked as well, the diesel dual. Diesel deal. The diesel jewel for him, which is no jewel at all. I'm so zonked out by time zones in Jetlag.

I can't talk. The diesel deal is not only a bad deal, but it's a betrayal of an ally. So it's a betrayal of Ukraine. That's right. It is. Now, what does that mean?

Is it, you know, is a betrayal of Ukraine at this point in this war? Is that a death blow? Well, is it a death blow? Let me just say this. The Ukrainians weren't under pressure even before he did this, because in this constant race between Russia and Ukraine to innovate. And, you know, it is astonishing, Peter, just as a sidebar for one minute. It is astonishing the way the Russian military has been able to keep pace in the innovation race.

Who would think that a clunky sclerotic country run from the top, you know, like Russia is, would be able to compete and at times stay ahead of Ukraine at each cycle of the innovation. But they have. So anybody who underestimates the Russian military is making a mistake is all I can say. We can't tell ourselves that comforting story that it's a declining power and it has an old-fashioned military and it can't keep up. what the game changer is in this cycle is when Russia, and this time Russia was ahead, attach these jet engines to drones.

And it is manufacturing, Russia is manufacturing thousands of ballistic missiles every month. And Ukraine has no defenses against that. So it's not so much on the ground. It is truly a question of. how much pain in the cities Ukrainians are willing to endure, and for how long. And to me, this is the great irony

that Donald Trump says, don't attack Russian refineries because I want their diesel fuel at the same time as Russia is bombarding the broad spectrum of Ukraine's energy infrastructure, electricity, you know, oil, the only thing he stayed away from thus far are nuclear plants. The winter is coming in Ukraine. The Ukrainian winter is a lot like the Canadian winter.

It is freezing. And if there's no electricity and there's no heat, and you're getting three or four hours of light a day, and there's no defenses against this constant bombardment of missiles. You know, the Blitz in London will look like a picnic, frankly. And that's why you're hearing that desperation from Solensky. In the last two days, he has used a fighter aircraft to knock down missiles because he has no interceptors.

Well, so I return to my question. Is this a game changer in the sense that it could be a war-ender? I'm going to say no, only because every time we've tried, any country has tried to bomb another country into submission. It's failed. Right? People dig in. They rally around their leader. You know, there are real political divisions in Ukraine.

Ukrainian politics are just as bare-knuckled as anybody else's politics. But every time they're back as to the country. the wall they dig in. I think the Europeans, Peter, are going to go all out. You know, Europe understands, and

literally across the board, with the exception of the far right, all across Europe, which doesn't. But Europe understands, they're already in a hybrid war with Russia. They're just below the threshold, but

they're in a hybrid war with Russia. drones are straying across borders. There's all kinds of Russian interference. There are incidents. And these are not random. You could say that in the beginning, but there's no way you can say that. So they are already in a hybrid war with Russia.

For Europe, for France, for the United Kingdom, for Germany, this is no longer, we need to help Ukraine. Ukraine is the front lines. if the Russians breached those front lines we're next and I think they're going to go all out

everything they can do financially what Ukraine is really going to need is fuel and generators to get them through the winter I don't think we're

given everything I hear from Ukrainians I don't think we're at this. is the end. You know, you're certainly right about the Europeans. I mean, more and more. We've talked about this a couple of times in the last month. And I've been running articles on it in my weekly newsletter as well.

But this kind of talk about prepare, you know, WW3 could be right around the corner. And it, you know, the, you know, a year ago it was kind of like crazy analysts who were this stuff. Now it's the front line of analysts. Yes. It's everybody. It's everybody. Yeah. So there's cause to be concerned there, obviously. So this is going to be a test, really, Peter, right, of the Europeans. And, you know, we'll come to France later. But boy, some of Europe is in disarray. So it's going to be a real test.

of how much Europe can organize itself to get these emergencies supplies to Ukraine at a time when it needs them because they've lost confidence in the United States. And Zelensky, Zelensky, he literally's had it. Yeah. He's not even trying to preserve the relationship. No, and he doesn't look or sound like that anymore for sure. No. You know, when you look at the broad kind of picture of alliances in the world, world.

And you look at how that picture has changed in the last, well, over the last few years, but certainly in the last year. You've got, and these are in no particular order other than this is a Canadian podcast. You know, Canada, U.S. split. Yep. You've got United States, Ukraine, opposite sides of the issue now. The United States and Western Europe. you know, the Western European appearance have gone beyond sort of saying Trump's nuts.

Did they basically laugh at him now? Yeah, and no confidence. With fear, no confidence and fearful of what it all could be. But they just sort of brush him off when you consider how things have changed in a rapidly short period of time from, you know, bowing down to the guy to laughing at him and ignoring. and assuming we have to move on our own now. Yeah.

And, you know, even in the UK, where prime ministers felt they could manage him, you know, because we're very good at that. They've given up. Let's take your argument to Saudi Arabia. Right. Which counted. You know, has a count,

he promised that he would come to the assistance of Saudi Arabia. Where are they? Saudi Arabia is under attack now. It's an airport. It's closed on and off. There's civilian deaths. Where are they? Where are they for the Emirates who made a big bet on Donald Trump?

You know, the Japanese have to be asking themselves. Where's the United States? I think it's not only Europe. This last episode is frankly, in plain English, so disgrace. Peter and make so little sense. You disgrace yourself for no good reason, literally. There's not even a calculation that we can make, as you said, when you count the diesel fuel.

There's no deal there that's going to matter to him. It's so disgraceful. It's so shameful that I think, if anything, this is the defining two weeks in the way the world looks at Donald Trump. Okay. You mentioned France, to go and I want to talk about what we witnessed over the weekend because, you know, there are a few kind of signature dates in the history of France.

You know, it goes back a couple of hundred years. But in more modern times, you know, 1968 in Paris, the riots, people still talk about that. In some ways, they were nothing compared with what we just witnessed over this past weekend. It was horrible. So I want to talk about that, but we got to take a break, first of all. So we'll collect your thoughts on that. We'll be right back with Dr. Janice Stein right after this.

And welcome back. You're listening to the Monday Bridge episode. That means Dr. Janice Stein from the Monk School, the University of Toronto. You're listening on Sirius XM, Channel 160, Canada Talks. We're on your favorite podcast platform. Glad to have you with us. All right, Janice, France. There was a remarkable weekend, what we witnessed there. And, you know, it seems like years now that we keep talking about how. much trouble Macron is in, yet he's still there, and he's still there after this weekend. But it was a brutal, ugly weekend, not in just one place, not just in Paris. It was like pretty much all over the country with some horrible scenes of destruction and violence, fires, buildings destroyed. What do you make of it? Like, I mean...

It's a, this is a huge... story, Peter, right? It's about way more than France, but let's talk about France for a minute because, you know, I watched that video of the spire on the Limoges Cathedral, you know, come toppling down after it was set on fire. Limoges is not the epicenter of protest in France. you know, it makes that famously moor's China but it is hardly where you expect this. This was literally throughout France with, it starts with students,

it always starts with students in France, almost always. And it usually starts with barricades and cobblestones, and that's where it stops. And it goes to workers, Les Gilles-Jéjean, the yellow vesters, who are complaining, it starts with students who are telling, who are complaining about cockroaches in their schools, which there are,

and crumbling walls, which there are, because the French, like a lot of European countries, have not invested in maintaining their infrastructure, right? And then it goes to workers who are saying the cost of gas. There we are, again, with diesel fuel, the cost of gas is out of sight, and that's partly a function of the war with Iran that has constricted supplies like that.

But when you saw those pictures of people dressed in black, clad, you know, with masked faces, these are not students and workers who are doing it. There is an element in France, like there are in many other countries. It's organized. It's violent. It lutes. who they are is difficult to pin down

because they can come from the extreme right as well as the extreme left. You'll remember, Peter, when we had the G20 in the city of Toronto, we had an element like that that took to the streets at the end, and that's when we had the violent rioting. Now, for France, this is a defining moment

because who's going to benefit here? Macron, who's spending his time abroad as president and prime ministers do when they're done at home. So he's busy. He's almost never at home. Hasn't quite got the message that he's done and that he speaks for no one anymore. So he, on television in France last night, blames the left. but who's the big beneficiary here?

It's going to be the Rassant Blancel Nacional, the Marine Le Pen party. Because French are shocked by the violence. That's what you heard. You know, in the 48 hours that follows, they're shocked. They're absolutely shocked. They're looting in Paris.

I mean, but all over the country. And when thugs take to the street in the wake of completely legitimate protest, especially in France, but when the thugs take over, it's the right that benefits. And the reason this matters so much, Peter, there's no center.

Right. His party has collapsed. It hasn't managed yet to rename itself, the coalition of the center. So you have the Rassemble Lassano, and on the other side, you'll have Melancho the France submies.

This is the nightmare for Europe when the extremes are the beneficiary. Now, if this stopped in France, that would be bad enough because France is such an important part of Europe. It spread to seven countries, which hasn't caught the media attention. Albania.

In each country, there's local reasons, but there are common to all of them, high price of gas, high cost of living, and students who are complaining, not about cockroaches, but although that's not true in India, where they've taken to the streets, where they've named themselves the cockroach party because the prime minister dismissed them and called them cockroaches. So some really imagine an Indian named the party eat the cockroach party, and they're in the streets too. but in Albania, the demonstrations are continuing. They're calling for the resignation of a prime minister.

Spain run again by a left-wing prime minister who, with these demonstrations and riots, it will again, and there's an election, which he called, it's going to benefit the right. Portugal, Germany, there are stirrings, right? So this is far bigger than France, frankly. And what are the threads here? High cost of living.

High cost of gas. Younger people feeling that they're not going to get jobs, frankly, that they're blocked from getting into the system. And that's a whole bunch of stuff, you know, coming together. But two are really big. one huge levels of debt. And you know, the bond markets, as Mark Carney says, sooner or later those bond markets catch up with you.

And France is the highest indebted country in Europe. And that's when you can't respond to these protesters. You can't invest. You can't improve social programs. You can't improve opportunities for young people. So we have two things going on here at the same time. We have a debt crisis. And, you know, I've learned to take economists and their predictions with a grain of salt always,

because there's always one who gets it right. The trouble is you don't know which one it is before the fact, right? But, you know, there's a debt crisis in Europe. You have high inflation, you have huge levels of debt, and you have bond markets waking up. Something's going to give. And it's not just in Europe. You know, I mean, you could make the same argument in the United States right now.

There's a lot of nervous twitching going on about the bond markets and about the AI bubble bursting and all of that stuff. and plus they've got, you know, inflation and the diesel and the oil and you name it, and an extremely unpopular president. So you've got to, you know, it's a toxic stew. Toxic stew. And you've got to, you've got to assume, you've got to assume that Putin, in spite of all the trouble he's in himself, has got to be sitting back looking at this and going,

this is the best has ever been for us. Yes. This is the best it's ever been. And, you know, in the United Kingdom, you know, Farage. Yeah. Where billionaires, crypto billionaires, are stepping up to make unprecedented donations, you know, in British history, because they actually have some rules there unlike the United States. But he's got wind behind him, frankly.

And it's the same set of issues, right? Crumbling infrastructure. a fear of AI, especially by young people who worry there won't be a job when I get out of university. And university is costing me so much money. I won't get a job. That's what a big part of this is. That's why young people are on the streets. But governments don't have levers, Peter. So you have a strengthening for a right in the United Kingdom. In France, there's no question. This is the greatest gift to Marine LePen because they're law and order parties

and they're anti-immigrant parties. And that's what they do. They blame the looting. And Donald Trump did that. They blame the looting unfairly on immigrants. That's true in Germany. That's going to be true in Spain in the election that they're in right now.

We could find ourselves, you know, in a year two with far right, far right governments. I'm not talking tories here. Far right governments in every important European country. At a time of economic crisis. Well, as you say, a toxic stew. And it's, boy, it's almost everywhere you look, you see it. Let me, I've been wanting to raise this with you for the last.

couple weeks. I'm not quite sure how to go about it. So let me just kind of throw it out there. And that's the situation that's been happening with Israeli settlers on the West Bank. Now, the West Bank, especially those lands around Ramallah, are, you know, that's Palestinian farmland, basically. But over time, Israeli settlers, hard-core settlers, tough people, have moved in and basically just stake their claim. and there's been, you know, some attempt, not by them, but for the Palestinians, it's kind of accept some of this, but every once in a while it breaks out.

And it's certainly broken out in the last little while where we've had some, you know, some pretty ugly incidents where the Palestinian farmers go out on the land to bring in their olive crop. They basically shake the trees and pick up the olives as they came down. But in a number of instances, over the last couple of weeks, Israeli settlers have come out of their settlements

and have attacked the Palestinians doing their farming. There has been, you know, there have been media personnel attacked. There have been diplomats who went with the farmers, and they were attacked. This is not a good scene at all, and the Israeli government is doing, well, you know, we're looking at it, we're investigating.

Yeah. What should we make of this situation? So I think your language is too mild, Peter. Okay. Well, I'm always careful. Yeah. You know, this is a fundamental crisis for the state of Israel and for democratic government. Why is it, you know, you might say why is it flamed?

up now. Well, there's two reasons. One is seasonal. It's the olive harvest when this goes on, but not at this level, nothing like this level before. And secondly, it is because there is an election coming. And to go back, the last government was formed, and I use these words and I get mail and I'm not going to back off, which included for the first time two extremist parties. one of them the minister is ben-gvir who controls the police and what's happened is he has allowed the extreme right wing of the settler movement because they're not a single movement and the older settlers

you know who've been there 20 years are have no use for what are called the hilltop youth the younger, more radical, more violent element, not because they have any empathy for the Palestinians, but because they think these younger, more violent ones are putting a whole enterprise at risk, which they are, frankly. So you have a, when the police are infiltrated, and they're representatives of this more violent wing,

which there are in the army, you have a deep crisis of the state. And that, I think, you know, one of the candidates in the Israeli election, the one that is the leader of the opposition, among all the splintered oppositions, Gadda Eisencott, who is now the front runner to, he's neck and neck with Netanyahu, but he was a former chief of staff of the Israeli army. He's running a big plank in his platform. This is a mortal threat to the state of Israel. You have a failure of state institutions to enforce their authority against a violent wing. So the most horrifying pictures are pictures of Israeli soldiers standing by while this goes on and not interfering. Or police standing by, and it was an incident this last weekend,

with an American journalist from the Washington Post who was beaten up, frankly, and people, you know, authority stood by. The Palestinians call the army or call the police. They come and they stand by. When you have that, you have the organized, you know, people who are responsible for the organized use of force elements of the army or the police who are defying state authority. and they're doing it because there's a nod and a wink

from these extremist parties that protect them, frankly. Why is it taken off? And it's reached an all-time high right now. There's a good, one extremist party is out for sure. They're not going to cross the threshold. They're not going to have enough seats to get in to the Israeli parliament after the election. Because the way this works, you've got to get 5% of the vote to get in.

And one is not going to make it. but there is a sense time is running out. We've got until the 27th of October. So this is the last gasp. But that idea that this is the last gasp, it makes no sense when you have infiltrated police and an infiltrated army. So Eisencott, this is the highest priority that he's running on.

We have to stop this. Let me ask. you this is the last question. And I basically take... It's appalling. Yeah. It's appalling. It's...

It basically goes back to a question you asked when we were discussing the situation in France, which was who benefits most from this. So who benefits most from this in Israel right now? You know, you know what I mean, Peter, when you're looking, when you're inside and you're looking at, right? Versus when you're outside and you're looking at... the local community that supports these two parties because together they got about 8% or 10% of the vote,

I can't remember in the last election, they're dug in and they see this, you know, they're trying to stake their claims on the ground. That's what it's all about, in the event that this government falls. and that Netanyahu doesn't come back. And this is a deeply polarized country. It's a lot like the United States in some ways

where if you talk to a Republican right now, a mega-Republican, they'll tell you the whole future of the United States is at stake if they lose and the enemy's going to take over. And Democrats feel exactly the same way. So it's so deeply polarized. So they think they benefit among their own base and they get their own base to go out and vote for them.

And this is critical for these marginal parties that need to get 5% of the vote in order to get into the Knesset. And that's partly their calculation about why they're doing it. The bigger argument is that it actually, I think in this case, benefits the opposition. because Israelis, with the exception of the extremes, but they respect their army.

That is the most respected institution. It has failures, but they respect their army. And these pictures of soldiers standing by. And not, let me put it bluntly, not following orders, Peter. That's what you have. That, in a sense, is probably I will go, and I know, I could just imagine the reaction in the mail you're going to get when I say this sentence. That is a bigger threat to the state than Saudi Arabia and the Emirates and Iran and Syria and Jordan combined.

This is the fundamentals. You will get mail. I will get mail. mail on that and so why. If you undermine the existing, you know, the institutions of the state, and that's what's going on here, leave aside

the catastrophe it is for Palestinian families who've lived on this land. You know, you go talk to the Palestinian families. This is a grandfather's land. And it's the grandfathers who planted these olive trees that are being wrecked. So this is a catastrophe

for them, but it's a catastrophe. as well for the state of Israel to allow this lawless thuggery, lawless violence to go on unchecked. Okay, we're going to leave it at that. You know, one thing that's amazing, this fall, more than any fall that I can remember, there are so many votes in so many different places. We have our own. We just have one in Quebec.

We got one tonight in Alberta. We got one coming up in B.C. The Americans have their big one in a couple of weeks. One in Israel before the Americans. Yeah. I mean, there's, you know, the power of the vote is a wonderful thing. And we'll see how it's used over these next few weeks by people in different parts of the world. And, you know, one story, we skipped Peter because we don't have time about it.

Let's just say, Palestinian elections. They were supposed to hold elections next spring. Right. And we remember when Macron and our own prime minister recognized to Palestine. Stinian State. They said contingent on their holding elections, those elections are postponed. Yeah, you're right. We haven't talked about that. We don't have time this week, but I'm sure we'll get at it in the next few weeks because there's lots more room to talk about. Okay, we're going to leave it at that for this week. Janice,

thanks so much as always, and we'll talk to you again in seven days. Thank you, Peter, and see you soon. Dr. Janice Stein, Munk School, University of Toronto. Another Monday conversation on the changing nature of our world. My gosh, it's changing. There is no doubt about that. Okay, that's going to wrap it up for today. Tomorrow, it's Raj and Rousseau.

Althea Raj, Rob Rousseau. I'm not sure we're, I'm pretty sure we're not going to have anywhere near the final results the Alberta referendum vote, but that won't stop us from talking about what we witnessed tonight. It should be interesting and hope you get a chance to follow it as well. So we'll talk to Althea and Rob about that and well, about whatever other things we choose to talk about. So we'll see you on that, the Raj Russo conversation. Reporter's Notebook, that's tomorrow. Wednesday,

I'm not sure what we'll do on Wednesday, but I'm sure we'll think of something. And it'll probably be an NBit special of some kind. Thursday, it's your turn. You've heard the question. It's all about books and how many you read and what you think about reading in terms of books and the value they bring to you. So we'll talk about that on Thursday's your turn along with, of course, the random ranter Friday.

It's a good talk with Bruce and Chantel. We'll definitely have results from Alberta by Friday. We'll talk about that and other things with those two. Okay, I'm Peter Mansbridge. Thanks so much for listening. It's been a good one. Talk to you again in less than 24 hours.