The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Scheer Disarray

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

and hello there I'm Peter Mansbridge this is the bridge for another weekend. We're in mid-December now. Getting close. Getting close to a break. Might even take a week off from the bridge. But it won't be this week and it won't be next week. So we'll worry about that in a while. This has been another one of those kind of

bizarre weeks. Think about it. You know who Richard Haas is? Richard Haas is a great foreign policy expert. He's an American. Deals mainly with American foreign policy and how it impacts the world. But he talks

about everything. In the last couple of weeks, he's been all over the world. And he's been writing about the things he's been finding out, this, that, and the other thing. You see him on television quite often offering his thoughts. He's in Canada every once in a while. I bumped into him in the makeup room at the CBC a couple of months ago.

Anyway, his most recent book was written about a year ago now, but it's still very popular among the sort of wonks in the foreign policy area, and it's called A World in Disarray. And while it's mainly about the kind of foreign policy issues that he deals with, everything from China to America's place in Europe, A World in Disarray kind of describes the kind of craziness we've witnessed in the last few days in our world, in sort of the world that we watch. We saw it here in Canada with Andrew Scheer's resignation, and we'll talk about that in a minute.

Don't say I didn't warn you. And, you know, obviously what's gone on in the States and the impeachment hearings, we'll talk about that in a moment. And in the British election, like, you know, I don't know if you watched it last night. It was available in Canada on BBC World and BBC America and the BBC coverage of the election night. I love watching those programs

because it's good to see how other countries do it. And the British elections are strange as opposed to ours because we get progressive results not so in Britain. They wait until everything's counted, then they announce it, and that's why things drag on so late into the night, and they have this little ceremony in each kind of riding area. But nevertheless, it went on. And so what happens?

Boris Johnson, the Conservative Party, wins this huge majority government. Right? Big. Biggest since Margaret Thatcher. Labour does worse than it's done in whatever it was, 60, 70, 80 years. So you think, okay, well, that settles everything, right? Actually, it doesn't settle everything. They've still got this disarray in terms of Brexit.

You know, the country's kind of split 50-50 on Brexit. But you look at an election where the party that's in favor of Brexit wins overwhelmingly, like it's not even close. Bet they leave pockets of issues around. They got problems in Northern Ireland. You got big problems in Scotland. Conservatives got blown out in Scotland. Now the Scottish Nationalist Party is saying, we're out of here.

We want another referendum. It's just like crazy. Talk about disarray. I love Jerry Butts' tweet today. Remember Jerry Butts used to be principal secretary to Justin Trudeau, the prime minister, left in the middle of that whole mess earlier this year. You know, I'm not even going to go back into it, but you remember. But he tweeted today,

the United Kingdom of England, Wales, and the Falkland Islands is going to be a great country. Because that could be what's left after this disarray. Hopefully not, but... You know, Scotland... You know, think about it if Scotland pulled out. You know what that means. You can't call the if Scotland pulled out. You know what that means. You can't call the United Kingdom any more.

You can't say the UK anymore. You can't fly the Union Jack because the Scottish flag is part of the Union Jack. Like, everything changes. Anyway, that's that story. Then the impeachment hearings, like, I was was, I know I was watching them all last week, last couple of weeks, you know, I've talked about it. I've talked about the great public servants, talked about the debates that we witnessed last week a little bit. But this week, you know, I finally, I just said, I've had enough. I can't take watching this anymore.

Nobody's draping themselves in any kind of glory. The Republicans look like they're draped in their sort of politics of the lie. They lie, lie, lie. Just like their leader. And they don't even make any bones about it. They just lie. But, you know, the Democrats aren't much better. They're hardly speaking the truth in a lot of cases when they're making their arguments.

And between the two, it's so partisan, so divided, that it's just, like, impossible to watch. And here we go. There'll be a little more in the House of Representatives next week. And here we go. There'll be a little more in the House of Representatives next week. Then I'll go to the Senate, you know, Lindsey Graham. Really? Really, Lindsey Graham? Do you ever watch yourself back again, see what you said a year ago,

two years ago, three years ago when you were talking about Donald Trump? Do you ever actually watch what you said and what you're saying now? But I don't know. Maybe he's no different than the rest of them. Anyway, that's that. So let's bring it home to her. There's never any disarray here, right?

Everything makes sense in Canada. We never have any issues. So said Andrew Scheer until he quit. He finally gave up. He was targeted from day one, night one, election night, October 21st. As soon as it was clear he was going to lose, the knives were out. And they were very, very effective. How did they do it? Well, you have to remember to start with, this is a guy who when he ran for leader of the Conservative Party of Canada,

on the first ballot, I think he had 20% of the vote on the first ballot. 20%. So like one out of five Conservatives who had the ability to vote in that election thought he should be the leader. One out of five. That's it. That's all. I don't even know if he had that after the election this year. Because as we said and we mentioned a couple of weeks ago,

all you heard was silence when you started looking for conservatives of any prominence standing up to defend Andrew Scheer. Well, it all fell apart. And isn't it interesting? It really is interesting when you look at the results of that election. Trudeau loses his majority and loses a whole bunch of seats. But at least he was still a prime minister.

Jagmeet Singh loses almost half his seats. Half. And he's dancing and happy and he's demanding this, that, and the other thing after the speech from the throne. It's like, hey, man, it's like he won. But he didn't win. He got hammered. They're the fourth place party in the House of Commons.

Who won seats? Who won votes? Andrew Scheer. But it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough for those who had the knives out. And they brought him down. Well, he's not completely down yet, because he's still actually the leader.

And I think they won't stop going after him until they get him totally down. They want an interim leader. And I think they won't stop going after him until they get him totally down. They want an interim leader. They don't want him having any control whatsoever of how this unfolds over the next months before the leadership convention, whenever's a one-sided fight. Those against him are facing nothing. There's no other side to this. As hard as he tried over these last couple of weeks to put up people, beg for people to stand up in his defence. It didn't happen. He got a couple of sort of low-level conservatives to say nice things about him, but overall there was nothing there.

And some of the stuff about him has not been pretty. And it's been kind of ugly, actually. And that just may continue until he totally gives up the reins. But what happens? What happens in the post-Shear era? Who's it going to be? I think you'll find a lot of people are going to be making their decisions over these few weeks of holidays that we're entering now.

And to me, they're kind of split into about three groups. There's the obvious frontrunners, that if they went in, they would be considered right away, the frontrunners. Peter McKay. But it's hardly a slam dunk. That will raise issues about where does the party sit. Peter McKay, originally a progressive conservative, stood back and let Stephen Harper win the leadership back in the early 2000s,

would he still split the party as a progressive? So that would be an issue. However, on the plus side, he's a known factor, and he's very well liked by a lot of people. Ronna Ambrose, the former interim leader of the Conservative Party. Remember, she took over the leadership of the party after Stephen Harper stepped down before Andrew Scheer was elected. And she was extremely popular in that role.

But interim leaders cannot run for the leadership. And she did not. Some people felt she should have stepped down from the interim leadership and gone into the race. But she didn't. What will she do now? Well, I'll tell you what I remember. The night Andrew Scheer won

the leadership of the Conservative Party, and I was part of that broadcast for the CBC. After it was over, standing outside the convention hall, as people were packing up

and leaving, she came by. And she came over to say hello. We'd known each other for a few years. And shake hands, gave each other a hug. And the most relieved person in that parking lot was Ronna Ambrose. She said, I'm so looking forward to not having to do this anymore. I'm out of politics.

Now, I don't know whether she now wants to get back in or not, but I can tell you, looking at her that day, that was the last thing she wanted to do. And I really thought, there'll never be another time. The liberals worry about Ronna Ambrose. You know, they said that she was offered the U.S. Embassy job, Ambassador to the United States, which is one of the top diplomatic posts we have.

Washington and London. By the way, if London ever comes open, I'm available. Born in London. That's the only qualification I have, but nevertheless. Anyway, she turned it down. And that's interesting that she turned it down and that's interesting that she turned it down does that sort of keep her in the in the game

in terms of possible leadership role watch Ronna Ambrose and it's Ronna by the way it's not Ronna it's Ronna

so whenever you hear somebody say Rona, they're wrong. Okay. That's kind of like the top edge, I think. Then you run into what I call the kind of premier's block, any of whom, if they went in, would be given a serious look. But they're all sort of saying they're not interested. Jason Kenney, you know, as I've said before on this podcast, on the bridge, I think Jason Kenney would love to be a federal leader

and potentially the prime minister of Canada. But I don't know how you leave Alberta, given the situation it's in right now, with the job undone. I don't think you can do that. I think you'd take a lot of heat for that. But the Premier of Alberta is a big, big Premier, big position. So is the premier of Ontario. But I'm told that Doug Ford is not the slightest bit interested in running federally. Not at all.

It would be tough anyway, but that he's not interested. But those two have clout, premiers of Ontario and Alberta, and you think back through history. There are other premiers, former premiers, but apparently from everything I'm hearing, including Brad Wall from Saskatchewan,

former premier now, but very popular in his province and has a lot of admirers around the country. I'm told he's just not into it, doesn't want to do it. Spent some time trying to learn French over the last few years, but was one of those, and I understand it because I tried the same myself, was just never able to grasp it. So we'll see.

And then finally, the third block is the sort of what you consider, in some ways, you know, the also-rans. They're not that well-known. But surprising things can happen in a convention. I mean, who knew who Albert Andrew Scheer was? Who knew who Joe Clark was? You know, these things can happen. So there could be any number of different people,

and you've seen some of the names. Aaron O'Toole, who ran the last time, heck of a nice guy from Manitoba. Pierre Poliev, tough guy. Tough guy in the House of Commons when he was in opposition and when he was in government, the way he used to go after the Liberals.

So there are any number of people like that. There could be a lot. And then there are those who are not in politics at all right now, but could be persuaded and may be interested. I'll throw out one name for you to watch. I'm not saying this person can win, but I think they're very interesting and could be somebody to watch in a campaign. Familiar last name, Mulrooney.

Okay, I know what you're saying. A Mulrooney could never win on the federal stage again. There was one two-time majority government prime minister, including one that was the biggest majority in the history of the country. So who am I talking about? Am I talking about Caroline Mulroney? Brian Mulroney's daughter? Currently in the cabinet of the government of Ontario? No, I'm not talking about Caroline Mulroney.

Ben Mulroney? Am I talking about Ben Mulroney? No, I'm not talking about Ben Mulroney. Ben is an established figure in the Canadian media and has cut a path for himself, is very well regarded, friend of mine, you know, not a close friend, but a friend, we know each other. And I'm a fan of his work.

Morning show, entertainment. Smart guy. So, you know, you want to keep your eyes on yet another member of that family. Ben's brother. One of Ben's brothers, one of Caroline's brothers. His name's Mark Mulroney. He's a vice chair at one of the major banks in Canada. Lives in Toronto. Great family.

I think five kids. Dashing figure in the financial world in Toronto. Very well known by a lot of the people around Bay Street. Great sports fan. Saw him at the Raptors game the other night. Anyway, keep that name in mind. I'm not the first person or the only person to have mentioned Mark Mulroney, but I mention him here because I think it would be interesting to watch.

So anyway, listen, there's lots of names. The bigger the convention, the crazier it can get. It'd be nice to one day just have a convention where there are three or five, but these ones with eight, 10, 12, 16 candidates, it can get nuts. Plus, anything can happen. So that's my snapshot of our world in disarray this week. Lots to look at. All right.

Time for a quick mailbag. You like the mailbag? You want the mailbag? The mailbag is next. Okay. Okay. I like that music. Every week I play just a little bit longer. That part. Maybe I'll play it all, the whole thing one day. All right, on the mailbag, I mentioned last week, and there was a lot of reaction, I had a lot

of letters about it, people who said, or this one person who said, that their wife who's British was listening to the podcast and said, what is that? It's like so slow. And the reason, said her husband, was that Mansbridge is a Canadian. We talk slow. Well, we don't all talk slow. Some of us talk very fast.

Not Jim Jordan fast. WrestleMania man on the impeachment hearings for the Republicans. But I like to kind of stretch it out. I've always talked sort of slowly. Anyway, that fellow said that, you know, he at times would listen to the bridge at one and a half speed. I didn't even know you could do that.

You can like speed it up. Smart. Anyway, I got a lot you could do that. You can, like, speed it up. Smart. Anyway, I got a lot of letters about that. People apparently do speed it up, including this one from Stephen Cooper in Ottawa. I just chuckled when I heard that the letter writer's wife asked if he was listening to you at half speed. Yes, you do speak slowly, which is fine,

because I listen to your podcast at two times speed, and I understand everything. For your information, I listen to CBC and NPR current affairs podcasts at two times as well, and even 2.5 times for NPR news bulletins. Thanks for being part of my podcast mix, and thank you, Steve, for mentioning that. Let me see. There was another one here.

And where is it? Charlie and Flory. Dear Peter, I laughed out loud while driving down the road and I'm sure my fellow commuters wondered what was going on. I was listening to your comments about the Canadian expat living in the UK who had written in reflecting on your speaking speed. It was so funny to me because I've fallen into the habit of listening to you at one and a half speed on my app.

Thanks for your weekly thoughts. So, thank you for listening at whatever speed you listen to things at. Lots to react and reflect on this week in our world in disarray. Maybe you disagree with disarray. Maybe you think there's a better word. Let me know.

You can always reach me at themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. That's themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. All right. That's it for this week. Thanks for listening to The Bridge. We'll talk to you again in seven days. Thank you.