The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Smoke Mirrors and The Truth -- An Inspired Choice (Re-Published)

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

**Note:  This episode was originally published Wednesday, July 7.  Republishing episode due to technical issues.**Mary Simon becomes GG and there's reason to be inspired and celebrate.   Also, lots more with Bruce Anderson on polls, politics and vaccines.  And of course, radishes.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. It's Wednesday, it's the Bridge Day. Once a week bridge, and what better way to celebrate bridge than have its favorite little topic, which is smoke mirrors and the truth, with Bruce Anderson coming your way in just a few moments. A can of pet food, where every ingredient matters. Some companies like to brag about their first ingredient, but the A Can of Pet Food team is proud of their entire bag. That's because every recipe has been thoughtfully sourced and carefully crafted with the highest quality ingredients, starting with quality animal ingredients balanced with whole fruits and vegetables.

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The crop report. I was thinking, you know, what it used to be like when I lived on the prairies in the late 60s, early 70s. The most popular show on CBC Radio was the Noon Hour Crop Report. First of all, it was with Lionel Moore Sr., who was one of the great announced voices of the CBC in its earlier day. There was a Lionel Moore Jr. who was my buddy. I was just talking to him again yesterday. We both worked together when I worked at CBW in Winnipeg. But anyway, Lionel Moore Sr. was a great guy,

and he'd announce all the crop stuff, like what all the different kinds of wheat were selling for on the various different markets uh and he was a bit of a legend himself not only had been around for a long time but he'd survived some awful plane crash i think it was an air canada or trans canada airlines in the in that day crash um where he was sitting in his seat and they had to crash land at the at an airport and he watched the whole floor come up just like basically disappear and he was looking at the ground so that was you know like quite a story which impressed all us young guys. Yeah. Especially one who is fascinated with airlines, as I am. Anyway, then it was taken over by Jim Ray,

and he did great crop reports. And the thing about them then, Bruce, was that in those days, because farmers would come to basically a standstill in the fields on their tractors or whatever vehicle they were riding to listen to the crop report because that's how they determine when they take stuff to the grain elevator and et cetera, et cetera. And there was no other way of getting that information. They didn't have, you know, smartphones.

They didn't have radios in their tractors and stuff like everybody does now. So this was the thing. So the Lionel Morris seniors and the Jim Rays, they were the rock stars of that era in terms of getting the farm report, which leads me to say, what's the farm report today? Well, you know, Peter, I love that story. I love that intro because it kind of reveals the, you you know the kind of fundamental difference between us we're we're similar in some ways but here you are you want to talk about the farm but really what

you wanted to talk about is the broadcasting heroes of farm weather and i'm like a foodie like i like to eat and i'm thinking, those beets are coming along really good. And pretty soon I'm going to be able to pull them out of the ground. And it's not such an abundant crop looking right now, but I'm going to be able to share with the world or even sell that many. But there's going to be some. You have a little roadside stand. Are you going to be out there by the highway with your little table

and little packages of radishes and beets? You know what? I kind of feel like I want to do it. There's like a farmer's market down not very far from where I live in the west end of Ottawa. And I think I could go down there with a small basket of things one day before the end of the summer and just see what the market will bear per charity. But right now, I'm just looking at my hands,

and I got to tell you, the heroes of broadcasting about farm reports, they didn't get dirt under their fingers. They didn't get Bax's source mine. This is hard work, and it's teaching me something really valuable that way, Peter. And that broadcasting part, I'm sure. Next thing you'll be doing is you'll be curling in the winter. You'll be curling in the winter. That's what you'll be doing next.

You'll be curling because the farmers, of course, some of them have time off in the winter, right? So they curl. Hurry hard. Hurry hard. I used to curl when I lived over. That was a great sport valley field curling and drinking that was kind of the sport that went together curling i shouldn't say that for all

the curling people out there i'm sorry i take it back maybe we'll cut the tape out and we'll do that again but otherwise i'm sorry we know we don't cut here. This is a no-cut zone in terms of our little podcast. All right. So I'm assuming then that things are going well and you've survived the various weather, you know, with a big heat, a lot of rain. Heat, sun. We got lots of rain now.

Feeling really good, actually. Good. It's been looking great the last couple of times I've been there. I go in today. Let's check off a few boxes here in terms of talking about broadcasting heroes. As some people know, I started with the CBC Northern Service. I was in Churchill, Manitoba. And at that time, in the late 60s, early 70s,

Mary Simon was in Inuvik as part of the CBC Northern Service. She was a producer and host. And that's where she kind of got her start as a name in the North. And then she quickly progressed into many other different areas in terms of representation for the North and arguing for the North. And of course, now she's our Governor General, our 30th Governor General. And it is a fantastic honour for Mary, of course, the Right Honourable Mary Simon now. But it's also a fabulous recognition for Indigenous peoples in this country. And I think it's an inspired choice i've lots of time that i have criticisms for this government and this prime minister

but i'm glad to see this one happening i know she'd been on a short list before and this is a great recognition not only of her, but of the place for Indigenous peoples in this country. And I think it's just terrific. Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. And I was surprised at, like, I'd heard the suggestion that there might be an Indigenous person appointed to that role. And it was sort of in the back of my mind. I wasn't really thinking about it because I don't really think very much about the role of the governor general, because when I do, I tend to get kind of frustrated with it. I think it's this I have thought for some time that it's lifestyle story of the monarchy, but I hate the institutional role that it plays in our democratic systems.

It doesn't make any sense to me that the child of these two people, the Duke and the Duchess, is going to maybe one day be our king. I don't get it. But having said that, it's a symbolic role in Canada, the Governor General role, but one I thought of as being kind of a slightly annoying, occasionally more relevant or less relevant. Some of the people who handled the job handled it with aplomb and

dignity and kind of made you feel that was the right way to conduct themselves in this symbolic role, and others really kind of disappointed. But having said all of that, yesterday didn't feel to me like the next page in the story about the governor general. It felt to me like a symbolically important step to take in the conversation that the country's having about Indigenous relationships and reconciliation. So obviously, none of us can know how this conversation is going to go forward. But I just felt so much of a sense of, well, I'm glad that we're doing this. I'm glad that this was the appointment was made. I hope that this works out really well and continues this incredibly important conversation.

I totally agree. I just think it's a great appointment. And I think it helps in some ways turn that page, as you say, from the way we've looked at that role and the people in it. Not all of them, but most of them, I must say, sort of, you know, to be crude, kind of political hacks who ended up in the job because they'd lost their seat or whatever. This is different.

And I think it's going to be really interesting to see. Mary Simon has never sat idly by. She's been taking on challenges all her life. I mean, you know, she took on Pierre Trudeau back in the 70s on constitutional matters, and she didn't flinch. She went right for the jugular and so you know don't expect her to shy away from stuff and she's supported by a great guy her you know her spouse whit fraser when i was in churchill and mary was in a new vick whit was in

yellow knife and uh whit and i especially started off a kind of an exchange of news items between northern stations which was kind of the basis in a in a way of kind of the northern news network at that time we talked every week at least every week sometimes every day um about what was going on in our areas and we'd exchange items on it and it was the way people in yellowknife heard what was going on in the central arctic the kuwaitian region and we'd find out what was going on in yellowknife but i can remember some of those conversations like they were yesterday i can remember one day sitting there in my little office in the cbc and churchill looking out the window talking to wit when a polar bear came like right by, like right by in front of the window. And he was recording it all and, you know, and did something with it.

I can't remember what, but anyway, Witt's a great guy. He went on, we both ended up going to television, joining the National. Witt was a fantastic reporter based in Ottawa, based in Alberta. And he will be a strong presence in this new Rideau Hall operation run by the Governor General. So anyway, I think it's great, and I look forward to watching how it proceeds over time. I want to talk about, you'll be happy to know, I want to talk about polls, as much as I hate polls.

I want to talk about polls, and we're going to do that right after this. Okay, you're back with us. This is Smoke, Mirrors and the Truth, the Wednesday summer edition of The Bridge. It's the only one you hear during the week during the summer, and it'll remain that way until we seem to launch into an election campaign, and then we'll go back to daily at that point, which could be as early as another month or so uh bruce anderson's in ottawa i'm peter mansbridge and i'm here in

toronto you're listening on either uh sirius xm channel 167 canada talks or you're listening on wherever you download your podcast all right uh polls and you know, as you know, I've always been a little hesitant about polls, even though I talk about them all the time. All right. I'm a little hesitant about journalists. Okay. I don't think it personally. may have forgotten bruce is a chair of abacus data one of the leading polling companies in the country abacus has been out this week with a a poll that shows what is it like a 12 point gap yeah that's right between the liberals in first place the conservatives in second 12 points back and the ndp nipping at the heels of the Conservatives for third place, just a couple of points back from them, I think five points back from them. But if that sounded difficult enough for the Conservatives,

then drops the next day or two days later the Nanos poll, which shows a 15-point gap between the Liberals and the Conservatives, which I've got to tell you, I can't remember a time that I've seen a gap like that. You go back to maybe the 93 election, which was a different case. There was all kinds of stuff happening there. But this is a gap. Conventionally, you used to say you can't make up more than 10 points

in a campaign no matter what and that was in an eight-week campaign these are five-week campaigns i think that old you know saying is probably not true anymore because things happen very quickly now and things can change almost overnight uh depending on how big an issue is confronting people. But nevertheless, 15 points in one poll, 12 points in another. That's one story. The other story is the NDP up in the 20s, you know, low 20s, but in the 20s, which is pretty significant. It's more than significant. It's really an interesting reflection of the dynamics that are at play as we seem to be about to go into an election campaign. So having said all that, tell me what it means. You're the least hatey of poll haters of anybody

I know. There's lots of people that are skeptical about polls. Over our 30-year friendship, I don't know how many times you've talked with me about polls and how many of those times you started it by saying, I hate what you do. Anyway, why don't you tell me what I need to know? Here we go again. Look, Peter, I think that our listeners probably know this by now, that it's a good idea to look at a range of polls, not just one, to see if the pattern is consistent. Because the more consistent the pattern in different polls, maybe four, counting the Nanos one that you mentioned, that all show a pretty substantial 10 point or maybe even a little bit better lead for the Liberals. And there was one yesterday from Leger that showed, I think, a three point lead for the Liberals. You know, so in my experience, I don't just look at our polls, although I have a lot of confidence in them. I look at the others and I see what the shape and the pattern is.

And it does look like a very substantial advantage for the liberals right now. And I see really three or four things that are interesting to me, Peter. One is that I think that when I think about the spectrum in Canada, not everybody self-identifies as left, center or right of the spectrum. But a lot of people know what those terms generally mean and they know where to put themselves on that. About 20% of Canadians describe themselves as right of center. About 30% say they're left of center and everybody else is kind of in the middle, the other half of the population. The Conservatives have 64% of the vote of the people on the right.

So that's the lion's share of a small slice of the population. But they only have 20% of the vote currently among those on the centre. And that's the lowest number that I remember seeing for a Conservative Party. To go back to that 64% of the voters on the right thing, that's not a great number for the Conservative Party. The proportion that they have on the centre is a devastatingly bad number. They can't win an election unless they grow that very substantially. which is they become an uncompetitive brand for self-defined centrist voters, let alone left voters. And they're not really doing much, as I can see it right now, to address that problem. But they've also got this problem on the right, which is that 64% share of right of center voters isn't a great number for them. And it's almost as though we're now in a situation where there are three reform parties, and there's no progressive conservative party. It's almost as though we're now in a situation where there are three reform parties

and there's no progressive conservative party. There's the People's Party, the Maverick Party, and the Harper, Scheer, O'Toole party, which is still a party that has struggled with this idea of melding with the old progressive conservative party. It still kind of looks most days to many people like a vestige of the reform party, maybe with less interesting leadership. So that's one really important thing or two, the fight on the center that the conservatives are not really getting anywhere on the fight on the right, which is a big distraction that they don't usually have to they haven't had to worry about since the days of Stephen Harper, particularly, but they do have to worry about it now. We see those advantages that have been massive in Alberta and Saskatchewan for the federal conservatives aren't massive right now. And we're seeing candidates come forward, like the former

interim CEO of the Calgary Chamber of Commerce announcing yesterday that he's going to run for the Liberals. So there's an interesting dynamic on the right and in the prairies, and it's not great for Aaron O'Toole's Conservative Party. There's a fight on the centre that the Conservatives have kind of abandoned under this latest incarnation a little bit. I would say the same thing under Andrew Scheer. And that brings me to the last thing, which is that if we look at the trajectory of attitudes towards Jagmeet Singh

and towards Aaron O'Toole, these are two very different stories. Jagmeet Singh is arguably the most popular political leader in Canada right now, and his numbers have improved. Aaron O'Toole is the least popular political leader in Canada right now, and his numbers have deteriorated sharply during the pandemic. And I do think that that's partly because people who've been watching the way that opposition leaders have conducted themselves in the pandemic see on the one hand, Jagmeet Singh, who they may not agree with on everything, who they may think

leads a party that they don't want to have form a government, but they at least hear him talking about things that sound like they're in their interest, the public's interest, Canada's interest. And we talked about this data point that we started picking up a few months ago, Peter, you and I, about does this leader look like they care more about their party or about the country? And you may remember that I said we saw Aaron O'Toole have a 15 point disadvantage on that where people were saying, well, I think he cares more about his party than the country. And I think that as people watched the way that he spoke about the pandemic, they kind of came away feeling like he was more of a partisan than a patriot or somebody who was really public spirited. And so I think the Conservatives are in real trouble. I think there's a real opportunity for the NDP here. But I also think the Liberals, you know, have strengthened their situation.

And there's no question that the arrival of vaccines and the general kind of sense that things are moving in a better direction is helping them. Helping them to the point of they must be awfully tempted with the kind of numbers they're looking at this week is not to wait at all. It feels like they're past the point of temptation. It sort of feels like the planning is underway, I think, and it's underway for all the parties right now. And this would be for a kind of mid to late August call for a late September election. I think that's right. No chance of that even shortening you know coming sooner

i don't think i don't think anybody wants to ruin their summer with an election campaign but these are the kind of numbers that can make people say you know it's crazy to wait here yeah i i don't i i don't see it i think that there's a general kind of feeling when this is going to happen it's going to be in the latter part of september and um in that there's work for all the parties to do to get ready to have a successful campaign and that not every aspect of our lives is back to normal in terms of people being able to go places. And we're in a bit of a tentative phase, I think, when it comes to the, you know, is the vaccine demand going to continue to be strong? Are we going to finish the job with vaccines?

Are we going to be able to reopen all these public places and do activities the way that we've done before? So there are very good reasons not to have an election. Sooner than that, I'm sure there are a lot of people who are listening to us who think there are good reasons not to have an election at all this year. But I do think it's going to happen, and I do think that's when it's going to happen. So tell me what, you know, based on your experience having been there working for different parties over time, at this point in the kind of schedule, what's the agenda?

Generally, what are parties doing at this point a month or six weeks away from an election call? Well, some things will be the same for every party and some things will be unique to each party's circumstance. For every party, they need to get candidates nominated in all the ridings. And so in some parts of the country, every party will have no problem getting candidates and in other parts, they'll have a heck of a time finding somebody who decides to upend their life and kind of run for office. And so that takes a lot of energy. And it also is, you know, one of my favorite kind of preseason storylines in politics is to see who in society is willing to kind of step off the, I don't even want to call it

the sidelines, but step out of their regular lives and put themselves into this situation as political candidates, which I got to say, I admire them. Doesn't matter what party to do it is a, is a sacrifice. And you're putting yourself into a situation where people are going to criticize you just for deciding to do something that we need people to decide to do. So candidate recruitment for sure. Have we got enough money to run a campaign? So there's fundraising, but there's also securing your lines of credit so you don't have to worry about money during the course of the campaign. That's a thing. And building the campaign teams and imagining what kind of a tour

you want. And with each of the last several elections, campaign teams have been increasingly oriented towards digital. What do we need to do? How can we find things out that are useful to us? How can we online, how can we use the Internet to deliver messages that otherwise we couldn't have delivered before. So there's that whole digital aspect of it. And then we've also seen in the last few elections, planning a tour is complicated. It's complicated because a lot of media organizations don't have money and don't want to go on a tour. It's complicated because when you set up a tour, you're basically committing yourself to doing a series of events. And so you need a crowd at those events. You need something to say at those events. You know, otherwise the media who go on these tours get crabby if you only do like two events

a day rather than three or four. And so there's a whole dynamic around it where the cost-benefit analysis politically is changing. You got to have a plane. I guess the Liberals had two planes because they had to move equipment last time. So there's going to be some touring, but I think it's not going to be what it has been. And that's even setting aside the aspect of the pandemic. So all those things are kind of the same for each party, differences of degree. But then the things that are different than that, I think the liberals need to challenge themselves to talk about why people should vote for them without sounding like they're just so proud of the work that they've done and they want to be rewarded. And that's always a challenge for every incumbent government. You just sort of settle into this mode of saying, well, did you see all the things that I did for

you? And forgetting that people never really reward, they only decide what's next. And for the conservatives, I think there's a very serious challenge here. They've got to decide, do we really think that this five-point platform that Erin O'Toole laid out is going to catch fire, or do we need something else? Do we really feel like talking about greatly increasing our military budget so that we can take on China is going to become an issue that Canadians are going to go, I haven't thought about that, but now that it's coming up in this election campaign, maybe that's a good idea. I'm asking the question that way because, obviously, I don't think they have the right platform. I don't think they've focused on issues that allow many centrist Canadians to look at them and say, okay, it's time for the Conservatives. And I think for the NDP, they've got this very unique

challenge, which is, are they asking for more seats or are they asking to run a government? And there are a lot of more people who will say, I'll vote for them to have more influence because there's a lot of progressive voters out there and who sometimes look at the liberals and say they're not as progressive in action as they sound in rhetoric. And that dilemma for the NDP becomes, if we say elect us, people might turn away from that message. If we say give us a lot more influence on Justin Trudeau in the next parliament, people might be drawn to that argument. So each party has a different kind of chemistry to solve for that's unique to its own situation too. I like your example of a party needing to find that one or two things in their platform that can

attract a wide base of support. I think back to Harper's first campaign that he won. He was up against a government that wasn't popular, that had, you know, the sponsorship scandal, et cetera, et cetera, behind the Martin Kraytchen years. But he kind of clinched the deal with the sales tax thing, right, the GST, which everybody could understand. You vote for me, I'll cut a point or two points off the GST. People got that.

They understood that. It wasn't like, you know, we got to get ready to go to war with China. That kind of doesn't ring right, I think, to a lot of people. It just sounds like, really? We're going to take on the biggest population in the world? Anyway, whatever. I see your point in that. And I think, as you say, all the parties have a challenge in front of them

in terms of how they're going to put their positions forward. I also like, I remember the only campaign that I was actually on day-to-day on the plane was the 79 campaign. And, you know, those were longer campaigns, 60 days. So kind of eight weeks based on the old train schedule from 100 years before that parties needed eight weeks to campaign across the country. So it was still existing and we were flying from town to town. And, you know, there would be three or four, sometimes five speeches in a day, but it was all the same speech, you know, with the exception of maybe one line that was inserted to impact that particular region.

And it got so monotonous, so boring, that the media would sit there and they'd recount to each other the next sentence that was coming up of whoever the leader was, whether it was Trudeau or clark or broadbent and you know you know this kind of media campaign relationship is always a tricky one and it can has its rough edges and sometimes it's all very pleasant and happy other times it can get really ugly and it's happened to all parties at different times over the course of history. Those tours, though, Peter, what you're saying reminded me of something.

I remember in 95, maybe? Anyway, it was a Jean Charest campaign. He had taken over from Kim Campbell as leader of the Progressive Conservative Party. 97. There was not much happening for the party, but Jean Charest was popular. And so here we were. He had these candidates everywhere, and we had him on tour. And everywhere he went, we could see, because what we did is we tracked key ridings that we thought were ridings where we had a chance.

And he did increase the seat count for the Conservatives in his time in that job. But everywhere he went, we could see within the two or three days after a little bump up in support, three, four points in the area where he had been. And I was always really amazed at that because you kind of think, well, you know, these buses show up, they go to a certain spot, they get out, they stand up, they say a few things, and then they go somewhere else. And sometimes there's a little bit more of an event, there's 100 or 200 people, that sort of thing. But I was surprised at how much we could register that kind of reverberation effect. But then in the case of the Conservative Party then, there was no ground game to back it up. And so within four or five days, it was gone.

And so that was kind of the story of that campaign. And you can see the potential value of the tour, but if you didn't have a bigger infrastructure around it to capitalize on any momentum and visibility that you were getting, you would lose it. And then fast forward to, I think it was the last campaign for Trudeau when he kind of finished near the end of the campaign, a big event in the northern part of Toronto. I don't know if you remember this. And it was and I think it was like 10,000 people in an arena. And it became a centerpiece ad to finish the campaign where he was in kind of fighting form. And so there's a lot of clips of his speeches of his speech at that event.

And there's no doubt in my mind that when people see that there are a large number of people reacting enthusiastically to a message. That can turn into powerful advertising where people kind of get that sense of excitement and energy out of it. And not very many events on a campaign can actually do that. But when it works, it really works like a charm. Yeah. That was an old trick that the Keith Davey, Jim Coots clan used to use around Pierre Trudeau. Maple Leaf Gardens.

I remember that. There was always an event there and it would, you know, it wasn't that the. Better than the hockey. The gunslinger. Don't go there. The gunslinger pose. Yeah. Pierre Tr The gunslinger pose, Pierre Trudeau was one of those big rallies.

But you're right. It was always a huge, huge crowd. And those huge crowds can make a difference in terms of television advertising and the impression that they leave on, especially undecided people. Anyway, listen, we've only got a couple of minutes left, but there is one other thing I wanted to talk briefly about. Maybe we'll get into it in more detail next week. When I was talking to Anita Anand a couple of weeks ago,

we raised this, she raised it, in fact, about how we could be heading towards the kind of country where there were kind of two camps. You know, there was the unvaccinated and the vaccinated. And, you know, the vaccinated were going to have certain rights the unvaccinated didn't have. And, you know, we didn't talk about the potential for tension as a result of that. But that seems to be starting to happen in other countries. I see in the U.S., Fauci was talking about it this week, saying we're heading towards a two-nation situation around vaccines.

And the polarization that's going to be taking place in this country isn't going to be about politics, it's going to be about vaccines. And you're going to have this camp over here, a minority, but a camp of those who are unvaccinated and a much bigger camp of vaccinated who are going to be looking at the unvaccinated and say, you're getting in my way. You pose a threat to me. You're a danger to me.

And you're a danger to the health care system because you're the ones who are having trouble. And the stats prove that out right now, that it's the unvaccinated who are the sickest in terms of those who are getting sick. They're the ones who are the sickest, and they're the ones who are dying. And it seems to be happening in other places as well.

UK, same thing. This has real potential for real problems if that kind of takes hold. Now, our numbers continue. We're up around 80% right now. First vaccination for 12 and older, I think it's 78% or something. And we're over 40% for 12 and older double vaccinated so those are all impressive but there is going to be this group in both camps of unvaccinated and there and the potential for tension between the two yeah yeah i i think that potential is there i mean a

couple of thoughts come to mind for me i am struck by a number I saw the other day that in the United States, 20% of Americans say that they've lost a friend because of a disagreement about Donald Trump. And it's a reminder of just when you get something that is so polarizing where people just they can't understand why somebody that they thought they knew and shared something with is support something that they hate so much, that they detest, that they can't get their heads around. Maybe we're seeing a greater potential for that kind of cleavage than we've seen before. It hasn't happened that much in Canada yet, but watching the United States is

clearly a signal that we need to be careful if we don't want our society to polarize like that. Second thing for me is, is vaccine causing the polarization or is the polarization finding a new conversation to express itself in. And in the United States, to me, it's the latter. The polarization was there, and vaccination isn't really what's driving that. And here, it's not doing that yet. And so far, it looks to me like we might get to about an 85% vaccination rate, at least first dose. And, you know, to me, I want everybody to get that second dose.

But if somebody gets the first dose, they're not really an anti-vaxxer, right? They've accepted, you know, the idea that this is a good thing. They're probably, if they're not getting that second dose, simply saying, I don't think I'd get that sick if I get it. Or maybe it's not really necessary because the first dose gives you lots of protection. Those are wrong conclusions, but they're not anti-vax polarizing conclusions. You could have a conversation with somebody who expresses that and say, that's dumb. But you don't have to look at that person and say, you're dumb, which is kind of the way that a lot of people feel if they're pro-vax and they're talking with somebody who's anti-vax,

right? So I think that's a thing. But the last thing that I find is that I would like to see public figures like Max Bernier be held to account for not encouraging people to get a vaccination. If we look at our political data and we say, well, where are the spikes of anti-vax sentiment? It's the Green Party and the People's Party. There's some in the Conservative Party, too. I mean, there's some in every party, but those are where we see these little spikes. And so that's where the role of public figures, if you aspire to office, and if you believe in science, and if you believe in public health, and if you don't use your platform, your bully pulpit

to say something that is helpful to public health and good public policy, you know, I'm going to judge you a little bit on that. I'm going to decide that that's not the right way to use your influence. And so we need more of those conservative voices to be more on the front lines of finishing this job on vaccination, not to be a little bit quiet because they think they don't want to offend somebody who's part of their base and who has this kind of anti-vax i'm not taking it because i don't believe in the system or the establishment so i don't think we're going to end up in a lot of polarization but i think we could have less if we had a little bit more effort from some of those folks um it's a good conversation and i'm sure we're going to have it again, especially if it develops more in this country than it has so far.

So we'll keep our eye on that one. We'll monitor that one. As we will everything else as we move forward with the summer of 21. I hope, and we both hope, that you're able to have some enjoyment out of this summer with some of the relaxed positions that are being taken by different governments across the country. But we're all monitoring carefully. Are you Peter,

before you go, are you excited for the game tonight? I got a bottle of gin. It's a Gila Fleur gin. Cause I saw him the other night on TV and i just feel so excited about it i'm going to send you a picture i'll post it on twitter is that as well is that the gin that he used to like rub on his head remember like because i watched that very closely watching he you know watching my hair disappear and gila fleur was desperate to to keep his hair he's got a nice

head of hair like i don't think you should take any hair shots at him. I'm not taking a hair shot. I want to know what his reason for success is. I used to watch Bobby Hill with that little thing that he used to take around. You're coming to town, and I'm going to bring some of that Gila Flourge in when we get together and win or lose tonight, although I'm pulling for a victory. Of course.

Listen, as I said from day one, although I'm pulling for a victory. Well, of course. I'm going to pour you a drink to that. You know, listen, as I said from day one, and I'd run the tape again if I had time, but we're out of time. As I said from day one, the difference in the Stanley Cup is all about goalies. And the best goalie in the world is Carey Price. And if Carey Price turns up and it plays like Carey Price, they're going to win, as they did the other night, where he had the best game of the series. He's been fantastic through the other three rounds.

If he keeps that going, anything's possible. He's the greatest goalie in the world, and he's my good friend. You know, we're close. You're close. I've met him twice. So we're really close. All right. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing you in Ottawa and I'll try to bring some vegetables

and some we are we're going to go to our restaurant tomorrow night Gia Cantina on Bank Street in Ottawa so we're looking forward to doing that and thanks for this good luck with the crops.

Get your crop report ready for next week. We'll talk to you then. Thanks, everybody, for listening. This has been Smoke Mirrors and the Truth on the Bridge for this week. We'll be back in seven days. Thank you.