The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - SMT - Have Throne Speeches Passed Their Best Before Date?

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

Bruce calls them the worst TV on-air, so is it time Parliament got with the times and revamp things?  That's the optics of yesterday, and then we focus on the content and the politics.  And what would SMT be with an update on radish farming?

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And we love smoke mirrors and the truth. That's what you tell us. That's what you tell us when you write. The Mansbridge Podcast podcast gmail.com bruce is in ottawa today i'm in uh stratford ontario and i've got something i need to talk to you about first of all before we get into today all right i'm looking forward to it i've been saving up truth for a whole week so i've been looking forward okay today well we need the truth on on this subject first of all because i've had a number of letters and you when you hear that phrase a number of something you

know a number one is a number it could be just one letter usually means more than one though if you say number right it usually means more than a dozen it doesn't really mean dozens four or five let's say four or five okay well it you know that's kind of in the ballpark It usually means more than dozens. It doesn't really mean dozens. Not necessarily. Four or five. Let's say four or five. Okay. Well, that's kind of in the ballpark. All right.

Around four or five letters in the last couple of weeks of people who are very disappointed in you. And you know why? Because. Wait, can I guess? Okay. Because I sound like, I don't know, a lefty, a communist. Is it anything in that zone? Because I do hear that sometimes, a little bit too progressive for some people's taste.

But maybe because I, you know, no, I give up. Okay, you tell me why. Well, it wasn't that. That was not the reason why, because that's so commonplace. Those letters come in every day people you know i'm just saying i am what i am you're just a woke guy i don't use that term no i i don't think you should either if i'm too old to use it so are you i'm definitely too old to use it but i can spell it that's what that's the one thing i've always liked about that word is i can spell it all right well look if you're about to break my heart with no i'm not let's hear the

four or five and here it is here it is this is the issue why does the radish farmer never tell us any more about the radish farm like he was so big and excited about this all summer and then suddenly disappeared it's seasonal i'm not saying that my interest in farming was strictly a product of the pandemic but there was certainly some relationship between the pandemic and not very much to do, not very much you could do. And spring was arriving and needed to get outside. So it's a good question. It's a good question. And as you know, next spring, I'm hoping to spend a little bit of time in Scotland and you probably are as well. Absolutely. And so I'm just now starting to think about what does farming next year want to feel like? So I've got all the equipment that I organized for this year. And I it as an invocation to come back with more farming stories at some point, at the right time.

Okay. But I guess the question is, like, what has happened to the radish farm? Like, if I went out there today, what would I see? Has it all been, like, did you do all the kind of stuff that farmers do at the end of the year to get ready for the next year? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's all prepared for it's

gonna you know it's gonna have a quiet winter uh the soil is going to be properly um supported and uh you know i just you're looking for the terminology you're looking for that farming terminology you know it's a little bit like any big you know hobby that people get deeply involved in although for farmers it's obviously not a hobby it's their lives but there's a lot of technical terms and i don't know them it's like if i talk to people who are sailors and they have all these terms for uh sailing i don't understand all the terms and so i'm still learning on farming and i don't have all the right words, but I have all the good intentions. All right. So you haven't given up on radishes.

No. You'll be back at it again next year. No. And I do find it interesting that radishes are what kind of sparked a lot of the imagination of people as they reacted to it. If I'd said, you know, which I did plant a lot of tomatoes, I don't know if people would have reacted as much. Radishes, though, something about it. I think it's a good word. It is a good word, and they embraced it.

They embraced the fact that the bridge has shown its diversity in terms of the people who appear on the program and range in professions from epidemiologists to radish farmers. Radish farmers. And everything in between. Very good. All right. I want to talk a little bit about yesterday, about the speech from the throne.

Before we get to the content, such as it was, I want to talk about the optics. First of all, the whole, and it I want to talk about the optics. First of all, the whole, and it's more than optics for Mary Simon, it was such a moment for Canada to see the Governor General, an Indigenous person, sitting in the throne chair reading the speech from the throne in three different languages and I thought she was fantastic and I thought it was such an important moment for Canada and such an important moment

for the Inuit to see one of their own in that role. And obviously because of many of the things she was talking about in that throne speech related directly to her experiences and her concerns and her desires for the future for um this country so on the one hand to me that was the headline and no matter what else you look at in terms of that day i thought that was like really really important here's what i didn't like about the day i thought uh in terms of the optics of the moment and having covered these myself for like 40 years uh you got caught up in the past with the pomp and pageantry of it all um and we'd spent a lot of time you know talking about what it all meant and what the traditions were and why they do certain things and the you

know black rod and the knocking on the door and all of that stuff. But yesterday, for a number of reasons, it looked so out of place with today's world and today's concerns. I mean, I think partly due to so much construction going on on Parliament Hill and renovation, that everything was changed and we spent know we spent like you know what it would seem like endless minutes watching these little white trucks that look like ice cream trucks carrying mps going going around parliament hill moving from you know the the parliament buildings over to the old conference center where they had set up the uh the area um it's set up for the uh for the speech on the throne um because the main chamber uh that's used on speech on the throne days the senate is is under renovation so yeah it to me it just looks so out of place cut to the quick

let's see the and hear the speech on the throne and hear what the various politicians have to say i think a day like yesterday was wasted in terms of uh the attempt to try and show pomp and padry everybody was freezing because of covid the restrictions on crowds you had this kind of pathetic little ceremony going on outside um I just, I thought it was all. Jesus, tell us what you really think. Well, you know, I was really disappointed. I just thought, such a waste. It used to be a learning experience about our past and our traditions.

I think, you know, some of that time is gone. It's always going to be important to understand uh where we came from and and certain parliamentary traditions but i thought yesterday was was a waste and then we get to the content but i why don't i let you um well you know i think that it's all a question of expectations in a way i mean i i've i've been watching the tv show that is the house of commons or parliament since 1978 and for i would say the last 30 of those years it's been the worst tv show on offer and the throne speech is the worst episode of the worst TV show on offer all the time. Always has been.

You know, maybe you can recall a day when you liked people showing up in a horse drawn carriage. But I didn't like it as a TV show. And I thought it was kind of silly. Better than gas powered. You know what? I don't know. I don't't know i can't really judge it i just think it's a garbage tv show and really you know the the best news is that most people didn't do what you did yesterday which is try to watch the worst episode of the worst tv show they just consumed if they consumed anything uh just a little bit about what the what the

government said and uh i kind of felt like first of all i was wrong let me just uh let me get this out of the gate here let me record this let me just push the record button on this one to make sure that we last week when we talked you were wrong do you want to start back at that again yeah i should let's take two i was wrong and where i was wrong was last week when you and i and chantal i think we're talking maybe it was the time that you and i were talking on wednesday i said well i'm looking forward to what the surprise will be in the throne speech and what a goof i was to say that because I thought, okay, they're being kind of quiet and understated about what's to come in the throne speech. And usually when politicians do that,

it's because they've got a trick up their sleeve, something that they're going to bring forward and everybody's going to go, wow, today was newsworthy. I'm really interested in that. I didn't see that coming. And they did exactly the opposite of that. They basically gave a throne speech that the worst criticism of which I think is, well, they said they were going to do what they campaigned, saying that they were going to do. And I think that while that may be disappointing for people who are looking for drama in a throne speech, first of all, I can think of almost anything else I would have done yesterday that would have given me more drama than a throne

speech, even without the fact that this was a low drama throne speech. i think it reflects the fact that the government knows a little bit where canadians heads are at which is just do the work just get your head down do the work tell us what the priorities are again if you must but the throne speech isn't like we're going to go in and build a boat and then by the end of the throne speech we we're going to float the boat. It's a speech that says, welcome back. Here's what we're going to do in terms of the legislation that we're going to try and get done over the coming months. And in that sense, I kind of putting aside the idea of let's find language that sounds even more epic and therefore less believable for a lot of people. But just kind of let's get our heads down and do the work. So that's my take. I found it funny because what's odd for me is i watch it through a whole different lens having sat there for all those years doing doing the thing and thinking oh this is really relevant

this this is like really important and then seeing it the way i saw it yesterday which was through a very different lens but one of the things that happens on Throne Speech Day, when the networks sign on, whether it's TV or radio, they spend a lot of time saying, this is just an outline of the government's agenda. There won't be any real details in this. And then it comes out and they start hammering away, well, there's no details. Where were the details?

Right, right. I've been there. I've seen that movie. I've been part of that movie before. But it is crazy. Well, I read another criticism of it, or at least one part of a piece that included this as a kind of a criticism. Well, now it just remains to be seen if they'll, if they'll simply talk about what they're going to do or they will actually do some of it. And

I don't know what, you know, how the speech could have done more than just talk about what they're going to do. That's, that's what it is. I also think though that um you know this government can be criticized for for a good many things no shortage of legitimate criticisms but the idea that they haven't done anything i don't think is a reasonable criticism i think that it's been a fairly activist government i think that the people who say they've done too much of some things maybe have a stronger case than people who say that they've done almost nothing. But that's maybe for another day. I think that the priorities that they described were conditioned by a couple of things, both of which were unstated. But I think we're in the margins.

One is the question of, yes, it's a minority government. And so you don't want it to sound as though you can do everything that you could possibly ever imagine wanting to do, because you do need the support of one or the other of the opposition parties in order to get your agenda through. And so if you end up with a throne speech that sounds sort of aggressively ambitious, it's easier for opposition parties to kind of grab hold of things and start to stake out areas where they're going to criticize you or marshal support against what you want to do. And so in that sense, a kind of a more modest tone and language makes sense. Second thing is that I remain really unconvinced that Justin Trudeau is going to run as the liberal leader in the next election. And I think that if we think about the throne speeches that he's been responsible for, this doesn't look like the throne speech of somebody who's starting to think about

how he's going to win that majority again in a few years. It's more of a head down, get the work done, take the drama out kind of thrown speech. And, you know, I guess somebody could make the case that that's the way that he should comport himself or sound as a leader if he wants to win a majority next time. But I think it's a little bit more like I'm going to take some time here and we're going to get some things done that I promise to do that I think are important for the country. And that maybe if I get them done, then people will reflect well on my time in office. But I'm not sure that that's the whole motivation. And I think the last thing is that it's a product of the times. We're still in the pandemic.

The economy is still uncertain. And I think the government is sort of recognizing that there are these two big imponderables that are going to condition the choices that they have to make in the months ahead. And so pretending that those don't exist and that you could just kind of draw a picture of the future that you want without those impeding it in any way or affecting it in any way would be dishonest too so um that's you know it's a it's an unusual time for sure okay gonna take a um a quick break and then we kind of come back and talk about the politics of yesterday because there was a lot of it on display and i don't just mean by the liberals i mean that some of the dancing that was going on

in front of those microphones uh i thought was quite something to watch. Anyway, we'll do that right after this. Our Black Product Sponsor is The Economist. If you don't already know, its expertise lies in making sense of the world's most important developments. It offers completely independent opinion and analysis, giving you a balanced global view of an issue instead of a biased or politically motivated opinion. And don't be fooled by the name. It covers pretty much everything from culture to science and technology, from politics to finance and business. It's Black Friday. Get 50% off the annual digital subscription to The Economist.

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It can impact many parts of your body, and that includes your heart. In fact, one in two people with type 2 diabetes die due to heart disease. Thanks for watching. your doctor today and visit myheartmatters.ca to learn more. Brought to you by two of Canada's leading pharmaceutical research-based companies. Looking to cook smarter and faster at home? Chef's Plate dinner boxes give you back the time spent on meal planning and grocery shopping by delivering everything you need to cook delicious meals right to your door. Each Chef's Plate box also comes with pre-portioned ingredients measured out perfectly for your meals. Say goodbye to wasted produce and hello to saving money. Go to chefsplate.com, click the sign-up button, and apply the code THEBRIDGE. That's one word, THEBRIDGE, to get 50% off your first two boxes. And welcome back. I'm Peter Mansbridge in Stratford, Ontario.

Bruce Anderson is in Ottawa. We're talking about the throne speech yesterday and the impact whatever was said yesterday is going to have on the next few weeks and months and the early life of this new parliament. You're listening on Sirius XM Canada, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. And as we always say, wherever you're listening from,

we appreciate your interest in what we have to say. And I always am interested in what you have to say. So as I said earlier, if you have any thoughts on any of this or anything else, drop me a line at themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com Also, if you want one of those

signed book plates for off the record, same address. Just drop me a line. You've got to do it in the next week or two. Not only will we run out of book plates, but we'll run out of time because I will likely be out of the country in a couple of weeks. Is it the same address for hats and the beer koozies and everything else? Beer koozies?

Is that what they're called? Yeah. The things that you put your beer in to keep the beer cold. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think you need

a whole merch line because I think you're really good at pitching these Mansbridge branded products on the podcast. And I'm sure

people just want more. Well, the letters are pouring in for book plates. I mean, I'm telling you, I'm signing lots of them every day. I had my booster yesterday, by the way. I'm getting mine tomorrow.

I was, you know, I was wondering because on my first shot and my second shot, I had no no side effects zero zip right so i was a little off today is that the booster what do you mean i seem a little off uh no i feel a little fevered i felt that little fever as you were talking about your disappointment in the in the throne speech and the pump the pump level was low and i thought oh maybe he's had that booster and he's just or or could it be the intermittent fasting that i've started in the last few days it could be yeah which are hangry you're a little hangry well i'm i am starving this morning not so much the last couple of days but i am i'm hungry today think that's maybe the combination of the intermittent fasting and the booster. And the booster, yeah.

Two things. No side effects from the booster other than a tiny little bit of soreness in my arm where I got the shot. But nothing, you know, didn't keep me up awake at night or anything like that. Did you get some nice Moderna or did you get the Pfizer? I got the Pfizer. I don't know. Apparently, my pharmacist said that unless you're AstraZeneca and you've got to go now to an mRNA vaccine.

That's me. You can pick whichever one you want or whichever one the pharmacy or whoever you're getting it from has. But if you were already on an mRNA, you should probably stick with it. The pharmacist suggested that he was being told you should stick with the one you had last. So I was AstraZeneca first, go around Pfizer second, and then so Pfizer again, the third. And that's where we're at. And the other thing about these boosters, apparently, you know, before it would take two weeks for the vaccine to take hold.

This takes 48 hours. And then you're home free to such an extent that you are with any vaccine. I mean, you go out dancing. You can do all the things you like to do. That's right. I'll be like in the throne speech the next time I'll be, I'll be driving the ice cream truck with the MPs in it. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

Anyway, let's get back to substantive discussion. And here's what I found interesting. I'm looking forward to having your take. Anyway, let's get back to substantive discussion. And here's what I found interesting. I'm looking forward to having your take. It is, as we've said many times, a minority government. And for the government to survive, they need the support of at least one of the opposition parties. Basically, either the NDP or the Bloc Québécois. And, you know, on occasion, I'm sure they're going to have the support of the Conservatives as well,

depending on what the legislation is. But out of the gate, there's a vote of confidence on the throne speech. And if they lose that vote, that's it. And, you know, the government falls, we go to another election. So there was a lot of brave talk yesterday based on a speech that they all knew was going to be the way it was. And they don't have the details until they start bringing in legislation.

But the NDP leader, who for the last month we've been hearing all this talk about, they're in secret negotiations with the government about how to keep the government propped up and what that cost will be well yesterday jagmeet singh sounded like when he got to the microphone like the last thing he would ever do was support the government that he just ripped into this uh throne speech said it was vacuous there was nothing in it and on and on he went but of course when asked are you going to support it he said well i gotta wait until we have a caucus meeting i don't know how

he could support anything after the words he said but it seemed to it seemed to me anyway as the story unfolded that in his back pocket there were two things one he wanted to look tough uh for his own party and his own supporters across the country that they would take on the liberals no matter what and second the bloc was probably going to support the government. And so he didn't need to at this stage anyway. And, of course, then the bloc came up and Yves Blanchet did his thing at the microphone. He crapped all over the phone speech too. But at the end of the day, he said, but, you know, we're going to support it. So crisis over.

And, you know, whatever it was, half an hour, an hour of, you know, politics played out in front of the cameras. Everybody had their moment and off they went. And tomorrow will be another normal day. Yeah. Yeah. All of the leaders probably would be better off having started yesterday, the opposition leaders saying we're going to end up supporting the government on some matters. Not because we support the policies, but because we know that Canadians don't want an election and we're not going to put ourselves in a situation where every vote is really a question of whether or not we're going to force an election. They didn't do that. They never do that. It would probably be better if they did do that. The bloc came the closest, basically, to saying, we're going to look at our votes,

not as a question in every case of, are we perfectly aligned with the policy of the government or do we believe in the values of the government? But because the reality is, is Canadians just had an election and this is the government that they ended up with. And we don't want another election and neither do they in the near term. So they didn't do that. So what do they do? They do the kind of things that are sort of learned behavior, rote behavior in keeping with the tradition, if you like, part of why it's the worst TV show, because the pattern is so predictable and so kind of meaningless, really. I mean, the bloc said it was boring. The conservatives said the liberals are horrible people. The NDP say liberals don't care enough or don't do enough. But you could have written each of those, and probably they were written before the throne speech in terms of this is what we're going to say and then the only thing that happens is throne speech happens and everybody kind of behind the scenes in each party looks at the throne speech and says is there something in there that we didn't anticipate that we need to add a response to

or something so dramatic that we need to kind of reorganize our our, our attack lines. And in yesterday's throne speech, there was nothing like that. And so it was easy enough, I think, for Aaron O'Toole to say, the Liberals don't care about inflation. The Liberals don't care about the economy. The Liberals are trying to use vaccinations to divide Canadians, and we should stop doing that. The things that they were saying before the throne speech essentially are the things that they're saying after i do think that the um that the ndp have a particular challenge which is different from

the conservative leaders challenge the ndp challenge is if the government does persist in climate action in action for reconciliation in ten dollar a day child care in those kind of progressive policies they can say that the liberals aren't going far enough but the public opinion doesn't really kind of support it in the sense of people not saying, well, I know our target is 40 to 45 percent emissions reduction, and it should really be 50 to 55 percent. This is one of the things I think the NDP learned the hard way in the last election is just saying that you think the Liberals should go farther is one thing. People might agree with you, but it doesn't mean that they're going to vote that way because they don't really consume the details of policy as much as the general kind of thrust and direction of the government.

So that's the challenge for the NDP is how to sound like question of can this leader use whatever platform he's given, throne speech or any other event in the political calendar, to command the enthusiasm of his supporters and weaken the enthusiasm of those who want him out. And I didn't really see him having a great day yesterday. And I definitely don't think that he needs any more days when they have to talk about vaccinations. I don't understand why they're continuing to pursue an argument with the speaker about vaccination. I don't understand why Aaron O'Toole hasn't said something more clear in response to the questions about how many MPs are unvaccinated. I get that they hate those questions, but I also know that in everyday life,

there's a lot of people who are kind of wondering, well, why don't they fess up about where they're at on that? And he'd be better off just finding a permanent answer to that, whatever it is, a permanent answer is better than facing those questions all the time. I got to say, it's unclear to me as to why he just doesn't say, okay, we have six MPs, you know, who have chosen not to be vaccinated. Here they are, here are their names, go and ask them.

You know, something like that. And they will have to live within the rules that the House of Commons has set and just leave it. I mean, six out of 100, roughly, you know, is what it is at 6%. And, you know, that's about what the national average is. That is the national average. That's right. Now, I'm not saying there are six. I don't know.

Maybe there's more than six. Maybe there's less than less than six but whatever it's not going to be a huge number right right and also this whole idea that they've got some medical exemption you know i know they got really mad at mark holland who's a liberal which i think maybe the House leader for saying it was statistically highly improbable to have, you know, a number of people back to your what is a number point um and it really just goes to the the transparency of the conservative position on this and if it was a kind of a marginal issue vaccinations and the pandemic nobody would care about the lack of transparency or very few people would care let me put it that way but it's a little bit like if you want to be on a high horse every day criticizing the other people for their kind of moral failings and their untrustworthiness. I don't know how you square that circle. I just feel like he would be so much better off saying, here are the names.

Go and talk to them. I've talked to them. They won't do it. They say they've got medical exemptions. Ask them for the evidence of it rather than defending them all. Because to your point of their caucus, I assume almost all of them are vaccinated. And probably almost all of those MPs in the conservative caucus who are vaccinated are mad as hell at the others because every day their work is dogged by this question and they can't answer it. They walk away from the microphone when it's asked.

It's nuts to be still talking about that. Before we wrap this up and, you know, obey the rules here. What's the one. Are there here. What's the one... Are there rules? What's the one piece of legislation, when it eventually comes down, that you're going to be looking at that could, you know, tip the balance one way or another in this House? What's the critical piece?

What's the critical issue just you mean to to cause an election well or to cause a disruption there where we were where we would at least be talking about the possibility this could bring the government down or if you don't see one then you don't see one it depends if i know you you want to establish rules that you haven't laid out and so i'm going to probably break one of the rules and you're going to tell me well that's not within the rules it'll be one of these 16 issues of sus bruce no no it's not it's really a question of who's the conservative leader, because I don't think this conservative leader will look at child care or capping of emissions or gun policy, which would be the three things where you'd say, well, even there, I think the makeup of the house means the liberals will always get one of the other parties uh to support them on those policies so it it feels to me like the only thing

will be some sort of unforeseen scandal um and maybe it'll be a real scandal maybe it'll be a kind of a a bit of a confection but the policy landscape as the liberals described it in the throne speech doesn't include any of those walls where you can see all of the opposition parties saying we can't get over that wall and so i i can't answer uh the question with a single policy i don't think it will be that that was a very good answer though thank you thank you that makes a lot of sense i'll just say one thing that if if i was you know and this may change as as events change. But in this moment, when I look at the Aaron O'Toole situation, I say, the only way this guy can survive

into the next election is to force that election now, as soon as he can. And so we at least have another run. I mean, let's not forget the last election, he looked toast before it started, and within a week he looked like he was a contender so things can change rapidly once you get into a campaign

but i just don't see what the issue is that's going to force an election but if i'm him i'm thinking i gotta force an election if i'm going to survive if it's not scandal and i think you're you know i think it's the state of the economy, and in particular, if inflation. You and I remember when inflation was running at 10% and interest rates were 20, and that was a long time ago. But it was a pretty transfixing thing. And you remember that Justin Trudeau's father ran famously against wage and price controls that were proposed by his opponent. And then he turned around and implemented wage and price controls because inflation was so rampant. Now, most experts seem to say we're up seeing 10% inflation and that feeling of the economy is out of control, that is a scenario where all opposition parties might say, we can make a meal out of this.

And, you know, from different perspectives on the spectrum. And certainly Aaron O'Toole, if he's talking about anything more than all other topics right now, I hear him say inflation, inflation, inflation. And it's a bet. Is it a bet that can go really wrong for him? Not really, in the sense that if inflation tames, people won't say, well, why did you spend so many months talking about inflation? They'll just forget that he talked about inflation and you'll have to find some new way of being relevant. Well, here's all I'll say on inflation is that for the last year, I've been raising the specter of the potential of inflation becoming an issue long back when it was still at 2%.

And the experts didn't think I had anything going there. And they still think, many of them, that this is only a temporary thing and it'll be gone literally within months, if not. I liked how you used air quotes around experts. But the experts out there, you should know that Peter used the air quotes because you can't see it in the podcast, but he did the experts air quotes well i didn't want to mention you directly so also you didn't start with i was right even though that's really the point of what you just said and you could we don't know it we don't know whether i was right yet well all i know is that for the last year

the big names in the economy whether we call them experts or not we're saying this is not going to be as big an issue as some people are suggesting and they're not saying that quite as loudly now as they were a year ago right but every every month that number keeps creeping up and it keeps getting higher so we'll see where that ends. And I totally agree with you. If it continues up, then the opposition parties will make a meal of it. No question. Not just in this country. In others as well.

It'll be a Biden killer in the States. Yeah. With that, there's no doubt. Okay, we're going to wrap it up. I did want to compliment you on the tremendous sound coming out of the worldwide headquarters of uh anderson um smoke mirrors and the truth studios in in ottawa just like excellent thank you thank you you know i i want to um acknowledge that people have from time to time had to be patient as we tried to figure out a better sound solution and for anybody who thought we weren't really working at it we

were really working at it peter and i spent a lot of time uh on zoom calls with technicians trying to figure out why uh the sound wasn't quite what it uh should be and i and i hope it it is today, and I hope with the solutions that we put in place this week, it'll stay that way. Yep. Sounds great. All right. Take a 48-hour break, and you'll be back with Good Talk with Chantel on Friday. Look forward to that. Bruce Anderson in Ottawa. I'm Peter Mansbridge in Stratford, Ontario.

You've been listening to The Bridge, Smoke Mirrors and the Truth. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you again in 24 hours.