The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - The Best Update On Where We Are On Covid In Canada

Episode Date: June 21, 2021

This is another keeper.  Mark his words!  Dr. Isaac Bogoch takes us through, point by point, variant by variant, vaccine by vaccines, where we are on Covid 19. It's pretty good.Plus in another segment, how anti-vaxers are trying to undermine and destroy the customer base of restaurants and bars asking for vaccine confirmation from its customers.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here, and welcome to the summer of 2021. You're just moments away from the best summary of where we are right now on COVID-19. A can of pet food, where every ingredient matters. Some companies like to brag about their first ingredient, but the A Can of Pet Food team is proud of their entire bag. That's because every recipe has been thoughtfully sourced and carefully crafted with the highest quality ingredients, starting with quality animal ingredients, balanced with whole fruits and vegetables. Akana pet foods are rich in the protein and nutrients your dog or cat needs to feel and look their best.

Available in grain-free, healthy grains, and singles for sensitive dogs. Akana. Go beyond the first ingredient. And hello there, Peter Vansbridge here. This is the Monday of weeks, whatever it is, 66 of the bridge since we started going daily with COVID-19. And this week leads to a hiatus. We're actually going to take a break. Well, it's not 100% break. We're still going to do shows on Wednesdays. Smoke Mirrors and the Truth, we'll do it every Wednesday through the summer. But we're going to take a break for probably four or five weeks on the daily show

um first break as i said in a long time and uh we're looking forward to it as i hope you get a chance to take a break as well from whatever you've been doing for the last 65 66 weeks uh wednesdays as i said bruce anderson will be by. We'll do Smoke Mirrors and the Truth from wherever either one of us happen to be. But the rest of the show, the regular bridge will be on hiatus until such time as it's clear that we're going to be having an election this summer. And if it is this summer, then we'll be back. You won't miss a day. We'll have special election coverage throughout the campaign. I'm really looking forward to making the bridge kind of a place

that you have to check into on a daily basis to really understand what's happening on the campaign. We'll be following it closely, obviously. We'll have Bruce will be around, Chantelle Hebert will be around. There'll be a number of other journalists and friends of mine who I have relied on over the years who are going to give us a sense every day of where we are on the campaign. So you don't want to miss that. We'll also obviously keep track in terms of what the polls are saying. You know, I always have trouble with polls,

but they're also a good barometer of kind of where we are on the campaign. So we'll keep an eye on those as well. And obviously Bruce does some with Abacus Data, so having an expert in-house will be certainly helpful for us. So that's a sense of where we are and what we're doing. What about today? Well, today I want to talk to one of our infectious disease specialists who's been with us all through this and they've been great you know them in

halifax edmonton toronto and hamilton and we've kind of circulated around got a different sense from i mean they're all infectious disease specialists but they don't all necessarily think the same way but they've all been great and we're indebted to them giving us time. Today it's Dr. Isaac Bogoch again, and what I wanted to do with the good doctor was really get a sense of exactly where we are on the big picture. There's also a number of questions, some of which you sent in over the last few days, and they're all good ones. So we're going to have that and listen to Dr. Isaac Bogoch.

And enough rambling, Peter. Enough already. Let's get things started. Here he is. All right, well, let's start with a general question. Where are we in this saga? Where are we on this whole story right now? We're very, very far along the path to what we remember before COVID-19 or BC, as some call it. Obviously, the vaccines are rolling out and, you know, we've reached a major milestone, right?

75% of eligible Canadians have had at least a first dose. 20% of eligible Canadians have had their second dose. Cases are crumbling in the vast majority of the country, minus a couple of hotspots that, of course, still need attention. Hospital capacity is improving and the hospitals are decompressing. All the arrows are pointing in the right direction. It's not time to get complacent. It's not time to celebrate. It's just helpful to know that we're well on the right path. And then you've got different provinces who have slightly, well, maybe not so slightly different reopening plans. Some are going gangbusters. Alberta, July 1 is basically open. Ontario is probably on the other end of the spectrum, taking a very methodical and slower approach to reopening. And you've got a

bunch of provinces in between. I still think at the end of the day, as a country, we're doing rather well now. But, you know, we've got to be careful. We've still got to watch this closely. We don't want to turn sideways, carry on this path. We're doing okay. Part of the fear of turning sideways is the Delta variant. And there's much, you know talk about about it sometimes i sort of

think that all that talk does help get people to their second doses uh you know inspires them to get in there and stop waiting around let's get in there and get it over with um are we are we overstating the delta variant we We're not. We're not. We're definitely not. I think we just have to be honest and transparent. Simple as that. It is more transmissible, very clearly more transmissible. And it may, there's early evidence demonstrating that it may cause more significant illness.

Sometimes people say, oh, it's hard to predict the future. We're not quite sure what's going to happen. But the answer is you do know what's going to happen. You just have to look at the United Kingdom. They're a couple of months ahead and you're watching it play out there. You're watching it unfold there. What's going to happen here? Same thing. It's going to take over. It's going to be the dominant variant if it already isn't the dominant variant in whichever part it's circulating in. It will be the dominant variant soon and it's more transmissible it will find unvaccinated people it will find under vaccinated communities it's just a matter of

time it is going to find us if we're not vaccinated the other beautiful thing that came out of the uk recently is basically demonstrated you know great data demonstrating that the vaccines that we have work like great we're in good shape. We know the mRNA vaccines provide significant protection against this variant. We know the AstraZeneca vaccine actually provides very good protection as well. So we're in good shape with this variant as long as we stay ahead of it. And what does that mean? It means we've got to vaccinate quickly by getting a first dose in as many people as possible.

And the job isn't done. Even though we've got 75% eligible, we've got to continue to lower any possible barrier to vaccine as possible, any barrier at all. I mean, you can see the different regions doing various, having taken various strategies to do that. But we really got to get that number higher and really got to get into the, I don't mean any disrespect by this, but we've got to get into the sort of harder to reach communities, people that may have language barriers, mobility barriers, technology barriers, any possible barrier to vaccination. We've got to reach those communities. And of course, we've got to follow up very quickly with a second dose. We're going to have the vaccine available to us to do this. Tons of it are pouring into the country and it really is our ticket out of this. And the more people

we vaccinate, obviously the better. We're getting there. We're getting there. Now, the Delta variant obviously is not the first variant to come along. We had a couple before that as well. And I assume there are going to be more coming. That is the way of a situation like this. There will be more coming that it's just that that is the way uh of a situation like this there will be more variants and they may be not as bad as delta may be worse than delta right i think the only question to ask from a canadian perspective is do the vaccines work that's really the only important question because we have access to the vaccines we have the

capability to vaccinate our population rapidly and you know if the vaccines work as canadians we're going to be okay obviously taking a more global look at things they're not okay the world is not okay right delta variant we just saw it rip through india and nepal and other places in south asia and even in the uk where they have very significant vaccine coverage it it finds Delta variant, we just saw it rip through India and Nepal and other places in South Asia. And even in the UK, where they have very significant vaccine coverage, it finds unvaccinated people in under-vaccinated communities and will rip through them as well. And this is going to cause a lot of deaths globally. It is that transmissible and it probably does cause more significant illness. Now, luckily, we live in Canada. Luckily, we have a tremendous access to vaccines and we have a robust health care system to keep us safe and protect us. And we have public health infrastructure working game busters to get everyone vaccinated.

You know, you look around the world, obviously, it's pretty clear most places aren't as fortunate as we are. And sadly, they're going to they're going to get walled by this. Well, as you say i mean it will find a way if it can get in it'll find a way which is part of the other question about getting in i mean there's a lot of pressure to reopen the borders how do you feel about that i know i know it's not true i know it's not your job about all the other things you have to worry about. We wrote the guidance, the playbook that's on the federal government website. So, yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, where we're at now is we're in a period of rapid transition, right? It doesn't. So we need a plan

that really accounts for, you know, the ground, the risk on the ground and the plan. It's okay for this plan and for policy to evolve as risk changes. But currently I think it's really fair and reasonable to say say if you're fully vaccinated, you can travel a lot more freely. You can't, you know, you don't pose as significant risk to bringing in COVID-19 and spreading it throughout the community. Of course, the risk isn't zero, but it's really, really low if you're fully vaccinated. So I think we should start to approve and afford fully vaccinated individuals all the privileges that come with that, including much freer travel. And I think it's also fair to say that if, you know,

you are a resident of the country of Canada and you want to get vaccinated, you pretty much in the next six weeks, we'll have every opportunity for a first dose and a second dose, you know, at some point by late July or mid August, at some point in that timeframe, any Canadian who's eligible will have had access to a vaccine. Yes. There's barriers. Yes. Yes. I get it. But like by and large, we're, we're swimming in vaccines and you know,

we can't vaccinate fast enough. They're actually, one of the rate limiting steps is actually delivery, not supply. At least that's starting now. So like in the next six weeks, you know, we watched that 20% of fully vaccinated people. That's just going to set, that's going to skyrocket. So yeah, I think the borders are obviously an issue, but it's time to start seriously reconsidering our current border policy, which we're going to have announcements for, and who might have more free travel across the border should still get a swab when you come in.

Even a random sample of them should get a swab. We've got to know what variants of concern are circulating globally and, of course, within the country. So I think we will start to see a softening of the border, as we should. It just has to be done in a careful and methodical manner. Let me just ask you one question on the vaccine percentages, because we had Minister Anand on this program last week, and she was great, actually, at explaining just what the process had been in terms of purchasing. But she made a prediction that said by the end of July,

so in other words, in five or six weeks, we'll be at 80% of those who are eligible on fully vaccinated. You think that's reasonable? We're about to find out. Got a little talk commercial. Yeah, I mean, it's one thing. Remember, though, it's one thing to have the vaccines in the country. It's another thing to have them allocated to the province.

It's another thing to have them allocated to the various public health units within the province. And then it's another thing to actually put the needles in the arms. So while there may be enough vaccines by the tail end of July to have 80% of eligible individuals fully vaccinated, you know, maybe it'll take a week or two longer than that, but I'm based on all the numbers and everything coming in. Yeah. It's pretty reasonable. Mid-August, you know, maybe this isn't an entirely true statement, but by mid-August, if you're not vaccinated, it's more about choice than about access. Still, of course,

there's the cabinets, right? There are populations that don't have the same degree of access, there's barriers, and there's significant programs to reduce those barriers, but by and large, it's going to be more and more choice than access by mid-August. And, you know, obviously the policy has to keep up, right? If you've got a fully vaccinated population and we don't have variants of concern that exist yet that evade vaccination, it's really time to start thinking about shifting farther toward normalcy than you are. And I think we're going to be in a period of tremendous transition, tremendous transition throughout the summer and the early fall. When we look at the number of people allowed to gather in outdoor settings, the number of people allowed to gather in indoor settings, people going back to work, kids going back to school, travel across the border, conferences.

It might not be normal, normal, but it's probably going to shift really close. I mean, it's amazing, not to compare us to the United States, but let me compare us to the United States for a second. If you look at the hockey, I'm watching hockey these days. I'm watching these games in Vegas or New York. 20,000 people screaming in a stadium. It's amazing to see that. And we'll get there.

We really will get there soon. I don't get there like we really will get there soon i don't know when but we will get there soon it's pretty exciting when you've got a huge segment of your population vaccinated you can do that all right you mentioned um you mentioned kids so i want to ask you a kid's question because i get i'm sure you get this a lot and i've been getting it a lot in the in the kind of listener mail, which is 12 and under, not happening yet, maybe happening soon, I don't know, but it's not happening yet, and they want to know how they navigate the summer as we head into it now.

How do they navigate the summer with their kids who are not vaccinated in a world that's starting to look very open? Yeah, you've got to be careful. I think it's fair to say a few points. One is kids, of course, can get infected. Two is kids, of course, can transmit the infection to others, despite I don't know why some people say something's contrary to that. Third is that kids generally don't get as sick as adults,

but of course they still can get sick and line in hospital. It's just much less common. But I think the other thing too, is when you look at countries that are more advanced than we are on the vaccine front, and you vaccinate the, for example, eligible populations 12 and up, or in other places, 18 and up, it just brings the community burden of COVID-19 down dramatically, which makes it a lot safer for those who are unvaccinated, which of course includes the kids. Great. So that's probably the best strategy for now. But we're not living in a zero risk era, right? Even if things do start to open up, there's still going to be COVID around, just a lot less of it. Kids can still get it and can still transmit. Israel is a great example. Israel has had very high levels of vaccination in eligible

populations, and they just had a big outbreak of the Delta variant in the school setting, where there weren't really any measures being taken to mitigate the virus because they had so few cases of the virus in the country. But here we have a big school outbreak. So I think when we sort of look in the crystal ball ahead, what the fall is going to look like, it's unlikely that kids will be vaccinated at that point, but maybe later on in 2021, but probably not by September. And schools will be a bit safer because the 12 plus crowd, many of them will have had at least a single dose or probably a double dose, depending on what we deal with, with this myocarditis business, that's inflammation of the heart. But we'll still need to really focus on safe indoor environments, especially schools, which

means hopefully smaller class sizes, better ventilation in the classrooms. Wouldn't be surprised if we still see masks in the schools to some extent. I think that's important. If they're not vaccinated, there're still at risk. And you just don't want to see this rip through a school setting. What is your advice on masks? I'm getting that from, as I'm sure you are once again, from people who are double vaccinated. And a feeling that, you know, perhaps I should keep wearing a mask.

I mean, some places you have to, like in airplanes or what have you, but generally. Right. It's like, you know, when you ask your mom and you don't like the answer, so you go ask your dad. That's like asking the U.S. CDC and then asking public health in Canada. So the U.S. CDC, I thought, had very practical interim guidance. And they basically said, listen, this was a while ago.

They said, there's more and more Americans that are fully vaccinated. You still have to public, you know, adhere to the public health guidance in your area. But hey, listen, if you're a fully vaccinated person, you can get together with other fully vaccinated people, have a small gathering in your house. You don't need a mask. You don't need to physically distance, you know?

And I thought that was very practical advice. They said, you know, go hug your grandkids if you're fully vaccinated. Great. Like these are questions that people had that were very pragmatic. We haven't heard that from public health authorities at the provincial or federal level in Canada. We don't have guidance. And I appreciate that many people know technology that's afforded to them by full vaccination and are just quietly doing this on their own. Great. But many people don't know this or are shell-shocked

from the last 15 months, who wouldn't be, and are really looking for a playbook of what is acceptable behavior. And we don't have one yet. And now that we have 20% of the population that's fully vaxxed and that percentage is going to skyrocket over the next month, that guidance is long overdue. And again, it's not for everybody. Some people sort of have this comfort level and risk perception and understanding of the data, that's the protection that's afforded them. And they're just doing this on their own. And Mazel Tov, we're all proud of you for that. But there's a lot of people that don't know that. And I think that's what the guidance guidance who the guidance would really be for um next question um a woman who's a psw who got

both her shots in like in january february early march she was done is now worrying should i be thinking of a booster somehow should there should there be be a situation where I'm in this kind of booster line? Yeah. When I think of boosters, I divide them into two parts. One is there's the booster that everyone's going to get. Probably later in 2020, actually more likely sometime in 2022, and that's a booster that's going to really help protect us against variants of concern. Canada's purchased 30 something million doses from Pfizer for this. We'll probably all

get a booster in 2022. Beyond that, I don't know. Maybe we'll need one. Maybe we won't. But I think it's fair to say that expect a booster in 2022. So that's one arm. The second booster that we should talk about is, will there be some people who just need a bit more oomph as an immune response to protect them from COVID-19 now? or people with certain medical conditions like organ transplantation or chemotherapy or other immunosuppressive medications, where we know they're not going to mount the same degree of an immune response with two doses of COVID-19 vaccine, you still got to be careful. You can still get infected, especially those groups. And do those people need a third dose or a booster? The answer to that is, I don't know. I don't know. There's only, there's some emerging evidence that's, you know, doesn't really come to anyone's surprise that those individuals don't know. I don't know. There's only, there's some emerging evidence that's, you know, doesn't really come to anyone's surprise that those individuals don't mount the same degree of an immune response. We don't know what to do with that just yet, but stay tuned because I think

there'll be a little more clarity over the coming month or two when we start to look at who is getting infected that's fully vaccinated. And, you know, are there signals amongst the noise demonstrating that those people are disproportionately getting infected and perhaps having worse outcomes so maybe that's in the on the horizon but i really don't know it at this point is there a danger of taking too much vaccine yeah i mean maybe i don't know i i mean i i just don't know i truly don't know. I mean, I just don't know. I truly don't know. It's like usually you want data to drive the policy and we call these DFZs, data free zones. So, you know, I'm not entirely sure. I'd love to speak with some vaccine friends who are like they're titled they're vaccinologists.

And, you know, could you do that with vaccinologists and you know could you do that with a viral vector vaccine could you do that with an mRNA vaccine what would be the repercussions of that what are the potential side effects of that would you see more for example myocarditis with that would you see other adverse effects like I really don't know I had a friend ask me the other day who who like me and I think like you had started on astrazeneca um but had decided unlike me and you i think not to go to pfizer but to have a second astrazeneca which is fine a lot of people have done that but now he's going gee maybe i should have taken the pfizer instead so can i do two astZeneca's on one Pfizer?

No, that's what I said. Again, we've got to timestamp everything, right? If we're talking today, the answer to that is no, but like policy is rapidly keeping up with the emerging data and the pace of scientific discovery is rapid. It is rapid. And like, Hey, we might be doing that. Like, don't be surprised. We don't, this isn't really a Canadian issue, but if you look at the States,

there was a lot of Johnson & Johnson that was given single dose viral vector vaccine. No one would be surprised if people who received the first dose of J&J are going to get a second dose of fill in the blank, either J&J or an mRNA vaccine. Like that would come to no one's surprise if that happens. are going to get a second dose of fill in the blank, either J&J or an mRNA vaccine. Like that would come to no one's surprise if that happens.

With AstraZeneca, though, currently, I doubt it. I mean, it's kind of nice to look at the effectiveness studies out of the UK. One dose of AstraZeneca, 71% effective in keeping people out of hospital with the Delta variant. Great data. percent effective in keeping people out of hospital with the delta variant great data two doses of astrazeneca 91 effective at keeping people out of hospital with the delta variant like great data so you know you gotta ask yourself like is there really a need for that if if that if that data holds up and stands the test of time the answer probably is probably no but again data changes and we gotta have the uh the uh the policy step today with the data. Okay you've been great with your time one quick last question if the minister's right or even close to being right that we're going to hit 80% fully vaccinated by end of July or middle of

August or even end of August does that put us in the sort of herd immunity range? And if it does, what does that really mean? So not to rain on the parade, but it probably doesn't. And the reason it doesn't is because the Delta variant is more transmissible. And when you go into the herd immunity calculations and go beep, beep, boop, you realize that the threshold for reaching herd immunity is probably closer to 90%, probably closer to 90%. Having said that, people get pretty uppity when they hear, oh, we're not going to reach herd immunity. But

the answer is, it's okay. Herd immunity is a concept and it's a very helpful concept. But what are we looking for? We're looking to have this virus not impact us as it did over the last 15, 16 months. We're looking to get back to some sense of normalcy or some sense of the pre-COVID-19 era. If you have 80% of your eligible population or 80% of your population vaccinated, you are afforded significant community level protection. There will be outbreaks. There will be periodic flare ups in under vaccinated areas and unvaccinated individuals. But if 80 percent of the people are fully vaccinated, like you are not going to overwhelm your health care system. You are not going to have to lock down. You are not going to have to go regress back to what we were dealing with over the last year and a half.

You know, you'll still see COVID. It still will bring people to hospital. You'll still see cases. You'll still see breakthrough cases. But the vast majority of people that are vaccinated that get it are going to do just fine. The vast majority of them won't land in hospital. Yeah, sometimes they will. And sometimes they'll die. It'll just be a much, much, much rarer event. And we will be well on our way to the 2019 lifestyle that we remember. Having said that, that really rests on the assumption that we don't have a variant of

concern that evades vaccination. And currently, we don't. Currently, we don't. So I think it's fair to say that if we, short story long, if we do achieve those levels of vaccination, we're in very, very good shape. Even if we don't achieve herd immunity, we'll have such good levels of community level protection that we'll be doing things that we did before with ease. Wow. Let's hope you're right. You've been pretty right so far every time we've talked to you.

And we really appreciate all these conversations. So, I mean, this podcast is heading off for a brief summer hiatus, so if I end up talking with you in the next couple of weeks, that's not a good sign. We want to make sure that that doesn't need to happen. But we do, you know, obviously, once again, we thank you for all your time you spent with us, and we thank you for all the good work that you're doing. And I'm sure there will be a time at some point in the future when we talk again. So, Dr. Bogoch, thanks so much. Have a good one.

Take care. Bye. Dr. Isaac Bogoch, University of Toronto, University Health Network who's involved in many of the different hospitals in downtown Toronto and is a key player on a variety of different areas that relate to COVID-19 in terms of his advice and suggestions

on everything from the science of all this to the use of the vaccines. He's been deeply involved. But in spite of being deeply involved, he's always found time for us and many other media organizations. And for that, we're all grateful. As I said before, all of our infectious disease specialists who have been a part of this podcast over the last however number of weeks

it's been, 65, 66 weeks uh we appreciate their time tomorrow uh we're going to talk to dr lenora saxinger one of uh the other infectious disease specialists who we've relied on greatly she's in edmonton um and we want to talk about the alberta story because it is it's really interesting, right? Two weeks ago, they were the biggest problem in the country. Now they're on the verge of being the first to fully reopen. So what has happened in Alberta? We'll talk to Dr. Saxinger about that tomorrow.

Meanwhile, today, it's not something completely different, but it's a little different. And it'll come to you right after this. Okay, you're listening to The Bridge. I'm Peter Mansbridge. I'm in Stratford, Ontario today. And you are listening either on Sirius XM Canada, Channel 167 Canada Talks, or you've downloaded our podcast, The Bridge,

on any number of the different podcast platforms where it is available. Our last segment today deals with a touchy issue as it relates to vaccines. As you know, the debate is on in many parts of the country and in many different businesses as to what they can demand from their customers, their clients, in terms of proof of vaccine. So I'm going to read you this little story. You've heard of the Ryerson Journalism Review and the Columbia Journalism Review, the Washington Journalism Review there are a number of these magazines and another one is the

Massachusetts Institute of Technology Review and it's in that the MIT Review that I found this one here's how it starts on the first hot weekend of the summer, Richard Knapp put up a sign outside Mother's Ruin.

It's a bar tucked in Manhattan's Soho neighborhood. It had two arrows, one pointing vaccinated people indoors, another pointing unvaccinated people outdoors. Now, I think many people would find that reasonable, but clearly not everybody. The Instagram post showing the sign quickly went viral among European anti-vaxxers on Reddit.

We started receiving hate mail through the Google portal, says Richard Knapp, estimating he'd received about a few dozen emails. I've been called a Nazi and a communist in the same sentence. People trying to impact his bar, his restaurant, trying to shut it out of new customers because of those signs. Now, doing this through using the portals to produce negative ratings, and it's not a new phenomenon. using the portals to produce negative ratings.

And it's not a new phenomenon. Throughout the pandemic, says the MIT review, the tactic has also been employed to attack bars and restaurants that enforced mask wearing for safety. As pandemic restrictions have lifted, businesses like Mother's Ruin have sought to ensure that safety by requiring proof of vaccination using state-sponsored apps like New York's Excelsior Pass. It's kind of a vaccine passport, and we seem to be heading in that direction, folks, in Canada. Or simply flashing vaccine cards at the door, practices that have instigated a second surge of spam reviews.

And if you're wondering whether these spam reviews have an impact, they do. Because the spam reviews can determine a place that that restaurant's listed on, whether it's Google or whatever it happens to be. So the more negative the reviews, the further down the line you drop. Here's another one. In April, Marshall Smith instituted what may have been the United States' first policy requiring patrons to prove they were fully vaccinated against coronavirus at Bar Max in Denver, Colorado. He didn't think it would be a big deal to ask customers

to show their vaccination cards at the door. I didn't consider the politics, and perhaps that was naive on my part, he says. Within days, his bar was slammed with one-star reviews on Google that took his average rating from 4.6 out of 5 to 4. We were in the top 10 best-reviewed craft cocktail bars in Denver. It might not sound significant, but if you drop out of the first page of results, it's a big deal. You're out of top ten lists.

We don't do a lot of advertising because people look at our reviews. We've built six years of good reviews that's been chiseled away over a matter of months. Now, the article goes on, and I direct you to it if you're interested. The MIT Technology Review. And you can find it at technologyreview.com. Simple as that. But, you know, are we in store for that? Is that already happening in Canadaada may well do i'm not

sure but we with those numbers that you heard dr bogoch talking about and rapidly increasing numbers of those who are double vaccinated and are going to have some form of card or passport or call it whatever you want to prove that will bars, restaurants, concert halls, movie theaters, you name it. Are they going to be asking for some proof of vaccination?

And if they do, is there going to be a backlash on them? Something to consider. We'll see. All right. As I said, tomorrow we'll Something to consider. We'll see. All right, as I said, tomorrow we'll talk to Dr. Lenore Saxinger in Edmonton about the situation in Alberta, and we'll have a few more interesting

things to talk about as well tomorrow. Wednesday, Smoke Bears and the Truth. Bruce Anderson will be by. See how that pump made out on the radishes. Thursday's potpourri Thursday. Friday is, of course, the weekend special. We're here all week.

And I won't be able to say that for a few more weeks after that. But we're here all this week. And looking forward to talking to you right here on the bridge. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you again in 24 hours.