The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - The Canadian Search For A Vaccine -- You Don't Want To Miss This.

Episode Date: April 16, 2020

Tonight the inside story of a busy research lab in Saskatoon and its part of a world wide race to stop a killer. These people are heroes too.

and hello there i'm peter mansbridge this is the latest episode of the bridge daily well if you've been listening to this for, the duration of the special broadcast we've done for the last five weeks now on COVID-19, you are probably aware who I think is one of, if not the best leaders in the world, especially on this issue. And that is Angela Merkel, leader of Germany. She's stepping down later this year, and we're going to miss her on the world stage. Some people will miss her less than others, but I'll miss her because I think she's been a terrific leader on a lot of fronts.

And the latest example was last night she gave a news conference in Germany on the coronavirus and where the Germans are in terms of combating this terrible virus. They've done not badly. They still have some horrific numbers, but they're doing much better than some of their European neighbors through the actions that have been taken by the German government, led by Angela Merkel. So what was it about last night's news conference that I liked?

Well, you can find it. You can go online. It's news conference that I liked. Well, you can find it. You can go online. It's quite easy to find it. And I'd run a clip of it now, except she speaks German. Go figure. But if you look for it on YouTube or Twitter or whatever, it'll pop up right away. And it's, you know, there's a translation running there as she speaks on the bottom of the screen. But this is what she did. She was asked a question about the impact of social distancing,

physical distancing, and to explain it. Now, Angela Merkel was trained as a research scientist specialized in physics. So she's not going to be stumped by a question on distances or on math,

which is a lot of what physical distancing is all about. So you want to watch it. You want to see how she answered it, because she broke down in a calm and confident fashion, which is the hallmark of a great leader, exactly how physical distancing works and the impact it can have in the spread of this virus. You want to watch it. I'm not going to try and go through it here. It's just the way she did it. And it's received, you know, a lot of attention in different parts of the world

and including for her at home. They're used to her being this way. And there has been, you know, there's been lots of controversy surrounding Angela Merkel over her time as leader of Germany, especially in the last year or two, especially over her handling of the situation in regards to refugees coming into the country. But she's won praise for the way she handled us last night.

So, you know, have a look if you wish. The other thing I want to mention quickly before I get into the main body of our broadcast tonight, which is pretty special. I always say broadcast. It's a podcast. The other thing I wanted to mention was we have talked over the past weeks about the number of companies from the private sector who have stepped forward and said, we're willing to, you know, change what we make to make something that could be of use for personal protection equipment, whether it's face masks or gloves or, you know, whatever. And apparently in Canada, there have been more than 5,000 companies that have offered to do that. 5,000. that have offered to do that. 5,000.

That's pretty impressive. And we had an example just the other day that we talked about on the podcast in terms of the company in Ottawa that's been successful in a new, very portable tester to test for the virus. But today, and that's after months of work at it and a fair number of grants from government to help out, but today comes the story about Mercedes F1, the car racer, right? Formula One racer, Mercedes. And their people had developed, you know, once again, I won't go into the scientific detail, but basically it helps with the oxygen flow in hospital equipment to the point where this little tiny piece of equipment that hooks into a hose and eventually gets to the patient makes the need for a ventilator unnecessary. So that's a big deal.

Here's the interesting part about the story. It took them, wait for it, one week to come up with the solution to the problem and to design and manufacture this little piece of equipment. Small, you know, not much bigger than a fountain pen. Remember those? Anyway, I thought, that's great. And that just once again underlines the innovation on the part of companies and people and the drive that is shown by a lot of different people and companies to try and help here. So good for Mercedes.

And good for Angela Merkel. All right. Here's the main body of our podcast tonight. I mentioned the other day the number of researchers and scientists at universities around the world, and including in Canada, a number of them, more than a few, who are working on trying to either come up with an antiviral that will work to stop this disease in its tracks,

or a vaccine that will prevent anybody from getting it in the first place. Well, one of the places that's often highlighted is the University of Saskatchewan. In Saskatoon, they've got an area called Vito Intervac. It's basically an international vaccine center. And it's got between 100 and 200 people working at it. It's got a level three facility. In other words, they actually deal with the virus in there

under very tight conditions. And if you look at the cover art for today's podcast, that's a picture from Saskatoon. Well, I wanted to get a better sense of what exactly is happening there and where it fits in the big picture, the global picture, of the race for, the search for a vaccine, Canada's role in all that. And how long could we be looking? How long is this going to take? The normal thing we hear is 12 to 18 months.

We've been hearing that for a while. But we've also been hearing that until they get the vaccine, this threat isn't over. So who better to talk to than Volker Goertz? He's the director of Vito Intervac, which is the vaccine center at the University of Saskatchewan at Saskatoon. These people are working day and night, have been all through this, continue to do so.

So I wanted Volker to talk about not only what's going on there, but how it fits in the big picture. So I think you're going to find this a fascinating 10 minutes. I know I certainly did in talking to him. So here he is, Volker Gerz, in discussion just this morning. So Mr. Gerz, give me a sense in the big picture, if you will, of where we are in the global search for a vaccine. Obviously, University of Saskatchewan is one of the leading vaccine centers in the world, is plugged in with a lot of the other researchers around the world.

So why don't we start with a kind of a global picture? Where would you say we are in this search for a vaccine for COVID-19? So we're in the early phase of vaccine development. There is about, I would say at the moment, about 40 to 50 organizations around the world that are working on vaccine candidates. And several of those have been already tested in animals and are now on their path to be tested in humans. So when you talk in general how to develop a vaccine, there's always the preclinical phase, so that's the lab phase, and then the proof of concept in animals, and then comes the development where you look into manufacturing, into safety of the vaccine, and then comes the clinical testing in humans.

Now, from what I gather, unlike past searches for vaccines, there is a great deal of international cooperation by these different centers looking for the answer? That's correct. So that's all organized through the World Health Organization. Weekly, there are phone calls. They have established a number of different expert groups who openly share their results, who have signed confidentiality agreements and are now openly sharing the newest findings. Now, the Vaccine Center at the University of Saskatchewan is considered a world leader, among the best in the world. So where are you in that big picture that you outlined at the beginning? Where would you say University of Saskatchewan is in terms of its search?

So we're just completing the proof of concept in animals. We have already made a vaccine. We have already produced it at small scale. And then we are now testing concept in animals. We have already made a vaccine. We have already produced it at small scale. And then we are now testing it in animals. And we already lined up the next steps to it. So the manufacturing, the safety testing, and the human testing to go as quickly forward as possible. So we're just amongst, you know, I would say we're at the forefront with another maybe 10 candidates globally that are at that stage already. When you say you're testing it in animals, what are we talking about, like hamsters? Yeah, so there's two models that seem to be working quite well.

One is the ferret, and that is what we're testing in right now. And then we also have the hamster model, also another good model. And then a few institutions in the world are also looking at non-human primates. And can you tell at this point, you know, just how successful this vaccine is? I will be able to tell that in two weeks. It's a little too early right now. So we immunized them. So we gave these ferrets two shots, if you want, two immunizations, and they have made an immune response. So we know that. We can detect that already. But in two weeks, we will expose them to the virus, and then we will actually know whether the vaccine

works or not. And what you're suggesting is in preparation for that, with the hope that it works, you're already ready or you're already lining up your ducks in a row for what happens after that. That's right. And that has started months ago already. We have partnered with vaccine manufacturers who can produce the material. You need special material. It's called GMP, very clean material for human testing. And so that we lined up months ago already, and they're producing it as we speak. And that will enable us then over the summer to do the safety testing and then start our clinical trials in the fall. Now, everybody has heard the different scientists and researchers and leaders in the health field say, look, vaccine development takes time, kind of 12 to 18 months as a minimum. If we were looking at the 12 to 18 months, where are we at this point? Have we started the 12 to 18 months, or are we still waiting for that clock to start, if you will?

No, we have started, and I would say we're in the first quarter right now. So we're probably around month three to four at the moment. And is that the globally you're speaking or you're speaking in particular for you, for University of Saskatchewan? Both. Both, okay. Now, there's also this feeling that this feeling that the world is desperate for a solution here. And if things start to look very good for one particular vaccine or more than one, that that 12 to 18 months can be condensed, can be shortened. Is that something we should think about or not? So I think there's two elements to this. So number one, you can fast track the development, and that is what is currently being done for a number of these technologies by giving them

the authorization under emergency use. And so then you can make the vaccine available to people that really need it, including, for example, healthcare workers. And so I think those would be the first ones that for sure need to have access to this vaccine. I think what you're really referring to is ethically the question, who is getting access to the vaccine first, which country and so on. And so this is why I think it's a very good thing that we have these multiple companies coming forward right now with different technologies so that there will be more than one vaccine available. We don't have the capacity to immediately produce billions of doses that we would need

to vaccinate everybody on this planet. So the more technologies we have going forward, the more capacity we use, the better it is for all of us. The last question I want to ask you is in a way to kind of personalize this story about the research that's going on and in particular what's going on there in Saskatoon. And it's about the people involved. I know that at your centre there's more than between 100 and 200 people who are actually involved in different forms of research.

But there are these, I would regard as pretty special people, who are working in the, what do you call it? A level three facility where they're actually dealing, you know, with the virus itself. Tell me about those people. Like, you know, if I was, if I was there inside that facility, talk to me about the kind of people, you know, I'm not looking for names or anything, but the kind of people that would insert themselves into that kind of a situation

in the love of research and science. Well, so I think the answer to this is here at Vito Intervac, we have some of the best scientists in the world. And they all chose a career in science because they're driven by passion and, you know, I guess the motivation to help others. And so many of our scientists right now are stepping up, coming forward, are saying we want to help in this. And even if their normal research is on another virus or another bacteria, they all want to be part of this because this is why we're here. This is why we have Vito Entevac. It's an organization that is specifically designed and built for the purpose of dealing with these problems, these global emerging diseases, both in the human as well on the animal side. And when they arise, then really people are stepping up and saying,

this is where we can help. This is where we can contribute. Nurses are helping in the hospital. We can make a vaccine. So everybody can play a role in this. And, you know, you would find people here that are well-established scientists and they're in their mid-stage careers. You find some young students who are part of this. You find some people from other countries. You find Canadians, a big mix of different people. You know, the organization overall has 25 nations currently represented. And, you know, everybody plays a role. Our animal care team is truly one of the best teams in the

world. And they're stepping up, working overtime right now to run as many studies in parallel as we can. Our scientists, as I mentioned, putting in long hours during the day and, you know, extending their shifts and making sure that all the work really gets done. So everybody's stepping up right now. And so if you were here, I think you would get a sense of the passion and the motivation that our people have. And I think we all got that just now in the answer you gave to that question. They all sound like pretty remarkable people, and we thank them for the work they're doing. Listen, I know you're a busy guy,

and I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you. Thanks so much. Thank you. See, I told you. Fascinating, right? Volker Gerz is the director of that vaccine center in Saskatoon at the University of Saskatchewan. And I certainly appreciate the opportunity to talk to him today and to share that discussion with you. There are more than a few things in there that certainly I didn't know and I think are, for all of us, worth knowing.

Not the least of which are those people who are working so hard for all of us right now. So we wish them luck. Okay, so that's the Thursday podcast done. And you know what Friday brings. Friday brings the mailbag and your thoughts and questions and comments on any number of things that relate to this story. I've had a lot, once again, a lot in the mailbag already, uh, over the past few days.

And tonight's your last chance tonight and tomorrow, your last chance to get your thoughts, questions, or comments in, and I'd love to hear them. So you know where to write the Mansbridge podcast at gmail.com. The Mansbridge podcast at gmail.com. Don't be shy. Looking forward to hearing from you. So drop me a line. And we'll be back in 24 hours. Thank you.