The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - The Eclipse is Coming - Are you Ready?

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

Circle April 8th for the chance to see something you may never see again during your lifetime.  A total solar eclipse will be witnessed in a specific path through Canada on that day, and in almost all of the rest of the country, a partial eclipse will be experienced. So what to do, where to be and how to safely watch the eclipse are all good questions and today Science Sam, Dr Samantha Yammine, joins us to answer them.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. It's Tuesday. Today, Science Sam and the Eclipse. We're gonna talk all about it. Coming right up. So unless you've been on another planet, you have probably heard a lot about the upcoming total solar eclipse. But what do you actually know about it? That's what we're going to try and explore today. It's coming up on April 8th, which is getting pretty close. So if you take this stuff seriously in terms of your interest in it, you're going to want to know as much as you can before

we get to April 8th, you know, like where to look, how to look, and why this is something special, unlikely to happen at any other time in your life, perhaps in your kids' lives. This doesn't happen often. It's rare. And it's pretty neat. So, who better to talk to than Science Sam? I'll tell you a little bit about Science Sam in a moment. But first of all, just as we like to say, a little housekeeping.

We announced yesterday the question of the week, and it's pretty straightforward. It's, you know, if you could name one place outside of your own province that you'd recommend for a holiday in Canada, what would that place be? And so we mentioned this yesterday, and boom, that started like literally within minutes, people started sending in their ideas. Some of them are kind of predictable, but many others are not. And we're looking for anything you may have an idea on,

what you would recommend, what you tell your friends. Hey, we went last summer to such and such a place. Well, what is that place? And why is it that you are so fascinated by it? So, as I said, we've already had a lot of entries to this week's contest, but we're looking for lots more. So don't be shy. Write in.

Here are the conditions. Write in to themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. Include your name. Include the location you are writing from. Remember, it's got to be somewhere in a province other than the one you live in. Okay? So we're looking to help out people who want to explore our country.

The spring, the summer, this fall. Where would you point them to? Because of your own experiences, what have you found? The most interesting, the most fascinating, the most wonderful, the whatever place outside of your own province. What is the one it is that you would suggest as your choice. As I said, try to keep it short, paragraph or less. Deadline for the entries is 6 p.m. tomorrow night at 6 p.m. Wednesday. All right. After that, it's too late to go through the vetting process and get everything organized. Now, if it's anything

like last week, last week we did the books, two weeks of books, favorite Canadian author, favorite Canadian book. And there were so many in a wide variety that we printed up a list. We put together a list of suggestions of name of the book, name of the author, and put it up on my website, thepetermansbridge.com. We may end up doing the same thing again here this time, because there are already, as I said, so many entries already.

But looking forward to many more today and tomorrow, up until 6 p.m. Eastern Time tomorrow night. Okay? And once again, the address for that is themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. So send in your cards and letters and your entries, and we'll see what we can do. All right.

Time for today's major topic. The eclipse coming up on April 8th. So that's, you know, less than two weeks away now. And if you've been, you know, wherever you live, you've probably noticed in some of the stores, confectionaries, you know, various books on the eclipse and various suggestions of how to watch it and what to use to watch it. These are all important things to know. And there's, you know, there's some garbage out there,

as there often is on a time like this of people trying to make a few bucks. So you've got to be careful what it is you're buying. But you've also got to be fully aware that this is a major moment in terms of eclipses. Sure, I'm like you. I go, you know, there was, I remember there was some kind of an eclipse last year or the year before. What's so special about this one? Well, what is special about this one?

That's what we're going to talk about. And who do we talk to? Well, Dr. Samantha Yamin. She's a PhD. She's a neuroscientist. She's a science communicator and a digital media producer. Graduated from the University of Toronto. You've probably no doubt seen her on various different TV programs.

She always seems to have a smile on her face, no matter what she's talking about. She helped guide us at the bridge through the pandemic, but she knows so much more than just vaccines. She knows it all, and she loves science, and she loves to get other people to enjoy the possibilities of science as well. Known as Science Sam, that's the handle she goes by on her social media and in this interview. So let's get underway. Let's get started with Science Sam on the eclipse. Here's our conversation. So Sam, I know a little bit about this, but treat me like I know nothing, which isn't hard with me

on a lot of different subjects. We'll call this kind of a, you know, a primer or eclipse 101 or something. A lot of people are very excited about what's going to happen on April 8th. Why are they so excited? What's all the fuss about? On Monday, April 8th, we have an incredible cosmic treat of a total solar eclipse passing over the eastern part of Canada. It's actually starting in Mexico, heading across the U.S. and into the eastern part of Canada.

And this is when the moon gets in between the earth and the sun. Now, what's really cool here is there's going to be a few minutes in the middle of the day, broad daylight, where it's going to be bright. And then the moon is going to cover the sun completely. And it's going to go dark for minutes at a time, depending where you are, completely dark as night. And that's going to be during the total solar eclipse. This is something that happens on average, let's say in the same location once every about 375 years. So if you're anywhere close to this path, this is your chance. This is it.

Okay. So let me back you up a minute. It's when the moon passes between the earth and the sun. Now it does that every month, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. But the fun thing about space is that the moon's not perfectly in lined with the sun all the time. Its orbit is a little bit off. So for all of the geometry to work out that the sun and the moon are lined up and they're also lined shadow onto our part of the earth. It would be, that shadow would be about the size of a sesame seed on a big basketball. So the chances for it to line up that sesame seed to be where we are and for the moon and sun to line up perfectly, it just doesn't happen often. Now, everybody's not going to be in the perfect location to witness this in its totality. Yes.

And as you said, it kind of starts on the North American continent anyway. It kind of starts in the southwest around Mexico, heads on a pathway like a wide highway leading straight up to, well, the northeast part of North America, which is, you know, Canadian Maritimes on the east coast. Where's the, not everywhere's the perfect spot, but if you're on that path, is it all a perfect spot or does it change? Depending how close you are to that center line of the shadow, you'll just get the total eclipse for longer. And just to, again,

to make this make it a little more tangible, the path of the shadow is about two hours across. It's about, in Canada, 180 kilometers across. That's like the distance from Toronto to London, Ontario, give or take. Okay. So that means it's so precise that even where I am in Toronto, we're only going to get 99% coverage. And you may think that's pretty close to a hundred. I'd be happy if that was my grade in school. Good enough, right? No, you want to experience a hundred percent. So you got to leave Toronto. You got to leave Mississauga. But as soon as you cross into like Burlington, for example, Niagara Falls, et cetera, in Newfoundland, St. John's just misses it. So you got to go into the central part of the province. In Quebec, Laval misses it, but Montreal and Sherbrooke, they're right in that central portion where they could get anywhere from one minute to up to about three and a half minutes

of that magical total eclipse time. So that's where you want to be. You want to get as much time with the full eclipse at a hundred percent as possible. So tell me, why is it so exciting to see that magic? I mean, we get darkness every day. Yeah. What's different about this darkness? I've never experienced one, but the reason why I'm going to get through the traffic to be there is because one, you're getting that darkness in the middle of the day. So you'll even start to notice like the temperature drop, animal behaviors can change. But two, it's not just darkness. You see what's called a 360-degree sunrise everywhere all across the horizon. The coolest thing is that during totality, only when the moon is 100% covering the sun, because the sun's actual brightness gets blocked, you can see its crown or corona.

This is the sun's atmosphere. When you're a, you know, when you're a kid and you sometimes draw the sun with these spikes, you'll get to see those spikes. And this is a really active time for the sun, which is also a great cosmic coincidence. The sun's very active right now. So we're expecting you're going to see lots of, you know, prominences, we call it, things extending from the sun, this beautiful halo. And that's something you can't see on a regular day because the sun is just too bright. I'm intrigued by your line about the animals, some animals might be doing crazy things during an eclipse.

I know the Toronto Zoo is asking people to watch animals and report to them what they see. I mean, does history tell us something, that animals are spooked out or something by this? Yeah, because they're really kind of programmed to follow the daylight cycles, right? Think of animals that are nocturnal and come out at night or vice versa. So when it's, it'll slowly, the eclipse kind of starts and that starting point lasts for about an hour or so. Again, depending where you are, that's when the moon first eats the sun. And so gradually as more and more of the moon covers the sun, it gets darker. So you get this slow period of it getting darker

and the animals will start to think, wait, it's already night. So they might become more active or even just making noises because they're scurrying around, figuring out what to do. And then in the 15 minutes right before totality, that's where it gets quite dramatic. You'll notice it might get a bit colder, and that's where you might expect to see some fun behaviors. Now, parts of Canada, Westerners are going to be saying this is the classic, you know, Eastern Canada or Ontario and Quebec are, you know, are taking all the exciting stuff away from us here. If you're in, say, Vancouver or Victoria or Edmonton, Calgary, you name it, are you going to see anything?

Are you going to notice anything? Yes, this is what's exciting is that almost all of Canada, except for a slither of the Yukon and the very northwestern tip of the Northwest Territories, otherwise, Canada-wide, you'll be treated to a partial solar eclipse. So you'll see part of the sun being covered, but only look at that using proper solar filters, not directly with your eyes.

It won't be safe to look at it without protection. So almost everywhere in Canada, you'll see partial solar eclipse. You'll see the moon kind of eating part of the sun like Pac-Man throughout that two to three hour period. One of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today was because I saw for sale in a, it was like a legit, you know, like a telescope store. So I'm assuming they're the real deal, but they don't look like much. It's like a piece of cardboard with a couple of eyes in it, but that you have to wear them. Yeah. Talk to us about that, about the safety of this. And like, if you got to start wearing special stuff, why don't you just sort of watch it on television?

Yeah. I mean, you could. NASA's going to do an awesome live stream. They're going to have the best view on Earth and even not from Earth as well. So, you know, that's a good place. You could watch it safely on television. But if you want to experience it in person for yourself, you do need to use special solar filters. So even if you get your best pair of regular everyday sunglasses, those are not enough. So you can't just use regular sunglasses. You need

a solar filter or solar viewer, often called eclipse glasses. I'm going to make it easy for everyone listening. There's a lot of fakes and counterfeits out there. So when you're shopping, you can just look up the American Astronomical Society Eclipse Safety or AAS Eclipse Safety. They have this incredible list of places that they have vetted. They have an expert task force that has vetted. These suppliers and manufacturers are up to code. And you want the filters that will be ISO 12312-2 standard for international safety. But people can fake that.

So just go off the expert vetted list. And just a note, even with the special eclipse viewers, you can't put those on and then look through a telescope. Telescopes, binoculars, and even your smartphone, your camera lens, they have separate types of filters that they need. So really, to play it safe, shop for good solar eclipse glasses or viewers off the American Astronomical Society list, vetted list, and then use those on your eyeballs. And during totality, if you're in the path and you get 100%, then and only then when the sun's completely covered, you can take them off and look directly. But otherwise for partial, you need those viewers. And explain to me why, like what is the damage that can happen and why is it like, how is that caused? Why can things be, why can your eyes or whatever be damaged as a result of this? The thing is, it's never safe to look directly at the sun. You only hear about it come

eclipse time, because that's the only time we think about looking directly at the sun. But if you've ever tried to, it's a horrible thing, but I remember as a kid, like we used to take magnifying glasses and you'd burn an ant or something, right? Well, using the sun. I think I never did it with a real ant. I think I just tried to burn a leaf or something. Maybe also not safe. Point is, you can picture what happened. The sun is really hot. It burns your skin. And especially with the lens, it could burn a hole.

Well, your eye has a lens in it. And so if you stare at the sun, even for a few seconds, it could burn a hole right into the back of the eye, the retina, which has all your photoreceptors, the things that help you to see. And there's no pain receptors there. So you might try to do it and be like, oh, Sam lied. It's fine. I'm not hurting. But it's usually about the next day when people start to notice vision damage. You can also damage your cornea, the front part of the eye. That tends to be, it recovers over time. But either way, don't risk it. It's not worth it. And you won't know until the next day if you've had any temporary or even permanent damage. Okay. It is April and it is Canada. And, you know, we can't guarantee there's going to be a blue sky that day.

I know. How much of a factor is weather on a day like this? It's what I'm most worried about. and being canadian we always worry about weather um we are crossing our fingers for clear skies so this is also why it's helpful to be as close to the center of the path as possible because where i'm headed it's it'll be a totality for three minutes so if there is a cloud hopefully it'll move in that three minute period so i can see you know we're trying to maximize our chances, but even if it is cloudy, I would still say participate because you'll still be able to experience it getting dark. You might still see some funny things happening to shadows.

So yeah, we want a clear sky day, but regardless, I'm going to be outside. Funny things happening to shadows. Yeah. Why? During the partial phases, so Canada-wide, you'll see if you even find a leafy tree or something, or even just use your hands to make like a waffle pattern, use your fingers crisscrossing them, instead of the regular shape that you would see, you'll see a crescent sun, like shadows instead. You'll see all of the tiny holes will become crescent shaped, just like the shape of the sun being eclipsed. And shadows start to get more clear as you get closer to totality. So you definitely want to be looking up, but there's also some things that are neat on the ground as well, indirectly not looking at the sun. So if you can't get your hands on eclipse glasses, you can make what's called a pinhole viewer using just a cereal box. You can look up,

there's lots of fun, easy ways to do it. And that'll help you see, have some fun with shadows and indirect viewing. I seem to recall that, you know, when I was a kid, there was some kind of eclipse, some, you know, a partial eclipse, I guess um but there are all kinds of eclipses right it's not just the eclipses of the the sun partial eclipses they're all it seems like and i guess that's the reason why some people are surprised it just seems like there's some kind of an eclipse every year yeah i was i was dying to make a joke about a total eclipse of the heart sorry um yeah we and and there's oh wait whenever there's a total solar eclipse, there's always a lunar eclipse right before it too. We just missed it about a week ago. But again, it won't happen.

There's about two every three years on average somewhere on earth. But the chance of it being over a landmass, like often it's just over the ocean and no one can see it, but the chance of it being over a landmass, like often it's just over the ocean and no one can see it or it's, um, and the chance of it being close to us, like within a driving distance, again, for the GTA, for example, and this part of Ontario, it's not happening for us again in the next 200 years. I checked for Quebec, it'll happen again in 2106 so again so basically what we're saying here is if you live within the past yeah this year and you never plan on moving again in your life this is it this is your chance this is your moment so it will never be as convenient to experience this incredible cosmic event again sold okay let me um let me ask you a couple more i i remember there was some kind of eclipse in the 70s

and somebody chartered or organized um a flight and i think it was the Concorde, you know, supersonic, to go up above any possible weather issues and watch from there. Yep. Clear shot. You know, no concern about clouds. Is anything like that happening this time? Have you heard anything like that? I've heard about that in general, but I haven't heard about it for this time around.

I'm sure someone's got to be doing it, but I haven't heard about it for this time around. I'm sure someone's got to be doing it, but I haven't, I haven't seen it. It's great because then you don't have to worry about your brief three minutes. You could just keep moving with the moon's shadow and have a really long eclipse. So, I mean, would be a great view, but I haven't heard of anyone doing it yet. I'm sure someone is. You, you truly are excited. I mean, you're, you're always so much fun to talk to because you're always excited about whatever the topic, even when we're talking on COVID, you were excited, but you truly are excited about this moment. I'm incredibly giddy about this. I got to experience the one in 2017, which was just partial. I was in Toronto for it. I think we were something like 76%.

And it was incredible. It was so cool. You could see sunspots on the sun. And it was, I had never experienced something like that. And the fact that this time, there's even a slim chance to see totality and see that moment. I could like cry just thinking about it. I know in the moment, it's going to be overwhelming because it's just, you know, something that we're just lucky to be able to have a chance to experience. So it's exciting. Plus, it's emotional. There's something emotional about it? I got some advice from friends who in 2017 when it was across the U.S., they got to see Totality.

And a lot of them cried because it's just so stunning. And it's something like we look at our sky all the time, right? We take it for granted. And to see something so unique happening, to see the sky quickly change within a few minutes, and it darkens in a kind of eerie way. It's not the regular type of dusk darkness. And I think just to see something so unique people often say like you understand why in ancient times they made up all of these wild superstitions or today we must take over the king like because it's just such this alien type of event so i mean i'm sure i'll cry where are you going to go to see it and and what do you, do you go with family, friends? Like what do you do? I've dragged my family and we made plans in Niagara.

That's where we can get about three minutes, 10 seconds. We're going to be on a winery and hopefully that being a very flat location will give us great views. They weren't going to even take the day off work. And I was like, are you kidding me? You have to. What about kids? What's your advice with kids? I mean, kids are, you know, we're hearing all the buzz and they, so they want to see it. They want to be there. They want to wear the funny glasses or whatever. Yeah. What do you say? So I'm bringing my niece and nephew who are four and about a year and a half respectively. I think for the really young ones, they might not really know what's going on and they'll

just have fun being there. But for those who can participate, you can get smaller sized solar eclipse glasses. I think that's easiest for them so they can just put them on and kind of keep them on. You want them to fit them well. And I'm also going to talk through with my niece again, who's four, just what to expect, because I think there'll be a bit of tension as we're all waiting and just the moment could be kind of intense. And for us, we're excited, but I'm going to walk her through in advance, like what to expect. And I'm going to make a little pinhole viewer,

pinhole projector for her. So she doesn't have to, you know, if she doesn't want to keep straining her neck, looking up, she can just use that and point it to the ground and still experience it. You know, when I was, when I started in this business, I was living in Churchill, Manitoba. And in those days in the 1960s, Churchill, and a lot of people don't realize this now, Churchill was home to the Churchill rocket range, which was a legitimate, real-deal rocket range. It was a smaller version of Cape Canaveral and all that. And we used to fire Black Brant rockets into the atmosphere and usually into the northern lights, into the Aurora Borealis. Because there was a time back in the 60s when both the Americans

and the Canadians, and the Americans were very much a part of the rocket range there, wanted to understand more about the Aurora Borealis. And so that's why they fired these rockets in there, and they recovered the payload and, excuse me, to do whatever they did with the results. Does science involve itself in something like this? You know, are scientists going to be looking for something during these three minutes

or whatever it happens to be where they are? Yeah, there's certainly going to be, we're going to have our best telescopes and viewers pointed at it. And it's always interesting, you know, right now the sun is very active. And so there are a lot of, there's a lot of science happening right now to try to predict what the solar flares and the prominences in the Corona are going to look like on that day.

It's actually, usually we're pretty good at predicting things in space, but because of the level of activity and all the variables, it's a little tricky. So we'll definitely be taking recordings and trying to see, did things match up with our predictions? What was different? This will give us a really neat time to, it'll give us a really good view of the sun. Again, you get like some cool contrast when the moon's blocking it out. But of course, we have some really awesome robots flying through space that can capture stunning images of the sun too. So this is an extra data point to add to that research. But I think the biggest win for science here is people getting excited about it and learning a bit more about the cosmos, because that then leads to so much more interest in

science and support for this type of research. And then there's the snowball effect of discovery. Last question. Does climate change have any impact on this story? Not that I can think of. of besides the more pollution we have and the less clear our skies in the future, the worse off it's going to be to be able to see things like this. Not too much more, at least that I know, but I mean, I'm sure there's something that I haven't thought of because climate affects everything.

But yeah, as far as I know, mostly just the clarity of the skies. Finally, after all these years, I found something that Science Sam wasn't 100% sure of her answer on. It's not so hard to do. Great to talk to you again. I hope you have a clear view on April 8th, and I hope everybody else does too. But it'll be interesting to see what you say after it's all done. Oh, if I even have words for once. I'll be talking a lot less. Thanks again.

We'll talk again sometime. Thank you. Dr. Samantha Yamin, Science Sam, with us here on the bridge once again after we've missed her over the last year or so. But this was a great one to come back to and get her sense and her knowledge and her suggestions for all of us about what we should do and how we should act on April 8th if we're in any way interested. And I'm sure even if you're sitting there right

now saying, oh, you know, I don't care. On April 8th, you'll care. And you'll be looking out the window or you'll be out on the front porch or you'll be standing in a field somewhere going, this is wild. Here it is, the early afternoon, and it's pitch black. Okay, so that's all coming up on April 8th. A total eclipse of the sun. Solar eclipse. All right, thanks to Science Sam, of course, for joining us on this day. We take a quick break, and we'll come back with an end bit of note.

All right, that's right after this. And welcome back. You're listening to The Bridge for this Tuesday. I'm Peter Mansbridge in Toronto. You're listening on SiriusXM, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. Okay, promised an end bit. Some of you have probably heard me talk in, I don't know, it's come up a number of times over the last couple of years,

how I'm facing and fighting a weight issue. You know, trying constantly through different ways and fighting a weight issue. You know, trying constantly through different ways to make sure that I'm, you know, not creating problems I don't need by too much weight, too much around my waist. Not doing too well on that front, but still fighting the good fight.

So I found this interesting. It's certainly not heartwarming in any way. But it was in the Telegraph. It was a couple of weeks ago now. Michael Searles wrote this piece. The headline is, Obesity Now Greater Risk to Global Health Than Hunger Study Finds. You know, we talk about that.

Every day there's a study somewhere that comes out and gets a certain play, so you always hear the claim comma study finds. And that's what we did with this one. So this was based on a Lancet study. So, you know, a credible source of medical information. So let me read a little bit of this because it's troubling.

Let's face it, it's not good news. More than one in eight people in the world are clinically obese. That's the number past one billion for the first time, right? Population of the world now over eight billion. A billion of those people obese. It's now leading, it's the leading form of malnutrition. The number of people considered underweight falling to below 550 million. Being obese or underweight are both forms of malnutrition,

because in both cases people are not getting the right nutrients, vitamins, and types of calories that are needed to be healthy. Experts warn that children were paying the price for inaction on obesity by global leaders with under-18s accounting for 159 million of those who are now obese. A further 879 million adults were considered obese, bringing the total to 1.04 billion out of the world's 8 billion people in 2022. This is the largest study of its kind. In Britain, National Health Service leaders called the study's findings alarming and said obesity rates were a ticking health time bomb.

The analysis by a global team of experts, led by Imperial College in London and the World Health Organization, revealed that the proportion of women who are obese has doubled since 1990. Doubled to almost one in five, and tripled among men to around one in seven. Number of women doubled, number of men tripled since 1990. In the UK, which ranks 78th out of 200 countries, analysis for adult obesity levels, almost 3 in 10 adults were obese, with women slightly more likely to be overweight than men.

The researchers compared obesity and underweight levels around the world in 1990, when only 226 million people or fewer than 1 in 20 were obese, including just 31 million children. Final stat here. Meanwhile, the number of underweight people has come down over the same period from 440 million to 347 million adults, 219 million to 185 million children. I don't know. Those are shocking figures. They really are.

And the change, the rapid change in the numbers of those who are obese going up so quickly. We all know what to do about this. You just have to be a lot more, first of all, when you have the opportunity to be aware of what you're eating, make the healthy choices. And for the millions of people around the world who don't have choice, then the onus is on those who are providing food or attempting to provide food to ensure it's the right kind of food. We've talked to Sam Nutt about this from Warchild, Canada,

the challenges of aid production and delivery around the world. All right. You know, I hate to leave it on a low like that, but those are shocking numbers. And we've got to do something about that. All right. Time to wrap things up, but I do want to remind you once again of this week's question of the week which is if you could name one place outside of your own province that you

would recommend for fellow listeners as a potential holiday summer summer holiday venture, vacation spot, this is your opportunity to do that. Send that place and the reason why you think it's so good to themansbridgepodcast.gmail.com. themansbridgepodcast.gmail.com. Remember your name, your location. Keep it short, paragraph or so. Get it in by before tomorrow, 6 p.m. Eastern time, tomorrow evening. All right?

Look forward to getting your letters today. As I said, we already had a lot coming in yesterday. And as we say every week on this contest, be innovative. Don't be obvious. And there's some of you have. You've mentioned places and spots in the country that I haven't heard of, and I've been pretty lucky. I've traveled most parts of the country.

So looking forward to your ideas on that one. Tomorrow is Encore Wednesdays. We'll have one of the great shows on the bridge from the past. And Thursday, it's your turn. So we'll have your letters on the question of the week. And also the random ranter. Friday, of course, is Good Talk with Chantelle Hebert and Bruce Anderson. And this Friday's Good Talk is actually last Tuesday's Good Talk

that we recorded in the Chateau Laurier in Ottawa with students and post-grad students and alumni, professors from the Carleton University Program of Political Management. And so it was an interesting hour we spent with them, and their questions were great. And it was a different kind of good talk, but it was a fun evening. And we're looking forward to it airing this Friday, Good Friday. So it's a holiday.

And I hope you enjoy it. And, you know, it's the first of a number of attempts that we're going to make to take good talk out on the road. It's tricky to do that, given everybody's schedules and the cost of moving around the country, all of that. But we'd like to do it more often. So, yeah, last week was an experiment, and you get to hear the results of that experiment this Friday.

Okay, that's going to wrap it up for this day. I'm Peter Mansbridge. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you again in, you ready? 24 hours.