The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - The EV Empire Strikes Back -- And the Random Ranter

Episode Date: October 6, 2022

Last week the RR had his say on the issue of electric vehicles, EVs, and this week we hear the fallout, both good and bad, on Your Turn. But the Ranter isn't done either as he has "take two".  Plus lots of your other comments on everything from freedom to Trump to Trudeau and surfing.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. It's Thursday, that means Random Renter Day, and it means your turn. And well, well, well, do you know how to pile on? And hello there, Peter Mansbridge in Stratford, Ontario. Yes, it's Thursday, which is your letters, your comments, your ideas, your questions, and it's the Random Ranter. Well, the Random Ranter's been with us for, well, a little over a month now, and very popular. Until last week.

Last week, the Ranter ranted on electric vehicles. And a lot of mixed reaction, but boy, some of it's harsh. Some of you really know how to condescend. Take cheap shots. That's okay. Doesn't mean I have to read them. But I'll certainly read enough different comments from you on the EV rant by the ranter.

And to the point where the ranter loved all your mail. Good and bad. He loved it, so much so that he's doing a second one on EVs, and that'll come up a little later in today's program. But the main thing is your letters and your comments, some of your questions. Most of them this week, and I'm talking about a lot, were about the ranter and the EV commentary. So let me get right to it.

Once again, some of you, especially the EV evangelicals, as they're being called, wrote really long, long letters. They read like a university paper. And, you know, good for you, but I'm not going to read them all. I'm reading segments from the ones we picked for this week. So let's get at it. There's some familiar names in here, some of our dedicated loyal listeners, but lots of new ones this week. But start off with perhaps our most loyal listener, David Oliver, out in Oak Bay, British Columbia on Vancouver Island. I love seeing David's stuff.

I don't agree with him most of the time. But I love seeing it just because I can imagine Oak Bay. I mean, my parents used to live on Vancouver Island in Victoria, and we used to drive out there. It's spectacular. It's just such a great place. All right, David writes, I love the random ranter's rhetoric.

I'll use some of these clever phrases when I get the chance. But when it comes to a coherent argument, he's fallen into the same trap he accuses others of, the logic evaporating in the face of emotion and ego. He starts with what he calls the most basic of arguments. EVs are only as clean as the electricity that charges them. Wrong! The most basic of arguments is a climate-changing world is how to limit the CO2 going into the atmosphere, not by continuing to drive gasoline-powered SUVs hybrid or not. The answer is to stop burning fossil fuels

and obtain the energy we need through alternative means. Once again, I'm just reading segments from each of these letters. Nelson Oypiks. Nelson's in Winnipeg. EVs will overload the grid. That's what the random ranter says. Well, he really got my goat. Here are some facts to help correct his inaccuracies on that one evs will overload the grid the average amount of energy used by someone in southern ontario to charge their ev at home is about eight

dollars a month which is about the same as an electric water heater. Swapping out that water heater to one that uses a heat pump will offset that usage, or even use the clothes dryer a little less. To give you an idea, last year it cost me just over $100 to charge my EV car at home in Winnipeg. Okay. Dave McPhail from Guelph, Ontario. The greenest car is the one already built.

Why hasn't this country done more to convert the current gas-powered vehicles to electric ones, swap the motors, and exchange the gas tank for a battery bank? Sure, there are going to be hurdles, but it makes far more sense than expecting all of us to buy new cars. Kurt Christie, also from Guelph, Ontario. I'm not going to refute the ranter's points point by point. Let me just say that we must stop global warming as soon as possible. That means we must cease coughing carbon dioxide into our atmosphere. On balance, data shows that electric vehicles do this.

Driving a hybrid vehicle is good, but driving a battery-operated car is much, much better. Carolyn Black from Waterloo. We have a real pocket of southwestern Ontario here. A couple from Guelph, Black from Waterloo. We have a real pocket of Southwestern Ontario here. A couple from Guelph, one from Waterloo. I want to applaud the random ranter for his rant on EVs. Not necessarily because of the stand he took, but because he offered an alternative to EVs. One of the best managers I had in my career, who's now my husband,

used to say, don't come to me with a problem unless you have a solution. I'm so tired of people complaining and not offering solid solutions to what they don't like. I was in Tanzania earlier this month and had limited Wi-Fi access. When I did have decent access, the first priority after looking at critical emails was downloading your podcast so they could keep me somewhat informed with what was happening back at home. Well, isn't that nice? So our Tanzania audience went up 100% right there. Kathy Ricketts-Monser, or Moncour. Went up 100% right there. Kathy Ricketts-Monser, or Moncour.

And I don't see that Kathy has told us where she's running from, but that's okay. This past week, we listened to the random ranter and his rant about e-vehicles and hybrids. Ironically, we were in very slow-moving traffic on the Gardner Expressway in Toronto. Okay. I thought that the rant was very thought-provoking. Our next vehicle may be a hybrid.

So his message was relevant. I like this concept. The anonymity of name, place, politics is a nice change from all the divisive, unintelligible rants that surround us day in and day out. One question, have you given any thought to having a female random ranter, in addition to the one already present on the podcast? You know, when we started this about five weeks ago,

it was an experiment. It's still kind of an experiment um it's going really well i mean there's lots of reaction and uh the thursday episode has has become very very popular since we brought the random ranter into the mix of your comments um so i've i thought about it? I'm still thinking about the idea behind the random ranter And if it proves out, I'll probably think of expanding We'll see We're at the early stages of that yet But it's a good idea, Kathy, thank you

Scott Corley from Saskatoon but it's a good idea, Kathy. Thank you. Scott Corley from Saskatoon. The Random Ranter makes good points, some good points, about electric vehicles, including the burden they place on the electric grid, with much of the electricity on the grid coming from high carbon sources. It is important to consider, however, that EVs are much more efficient

than internal combustion engine vehicles. According to Motor Trend, internal combustion engines waste about 80% of fuel, mostly by generating a lot of heat. EVs, on the other hand, waste only 31-35%. Motor Trend says that even if the grid were entirely fueled by coal, 31% less energy would be needed to charge EVs than to fuel gasoline cars. If EVs were charged by natural gas, the total energy demand for highway transportation would fall by nearly half. Don Robertson writes from Edmonton.

I'd like to offer a two thumbs up for the random ranter. I've agreed with everything he's said so far. He voices a realistic, reasonable point of view that has been silent and silenced for too many years. We sure need more of this kind of sensible thought in the world today. I hope he continues with this for a long time to come. There's so much to rant about. I agree with what he said about electric vehicles last week.

The whole issue about them is full of problems. Until the day they come out with cheap, self-rechargeable ones that don't freeze up in the winter, I would not buy one aed el fata from ottawa i normally agree with the random renter but he's not correct in his assertion that electric vehicles produce similar levels of carbon emissions as vehicles powered by internal combustion engines. Not sure he said exactly that. The vast majority of Canadians live in provinces where electric grids produce very low levels of emissions. Only Canadians living in Alberta, Nova Scotia, and Saskatchewan, less than 20% of the population, have electric grids that create enough carbon emissions

to make overall emissions similar between the two types of vehicles. Emissions in most other provinces from electricity are close to zero. And then he sports that with a number of graphs. Mike Gerritsen from Kitchener, Ontario. His letter was headlined, Random Ranter is way off base this week. So I'm no dummy. I knew right away he didn't like this.

Here's a bit of what he had to say. I'm not sure if the ranter has fallen victim to exactly what he warned of lying to himself to justify his decisions or if he has just fallen victim to some bad information but his conclusions on evs are poorly informed at best here's one of the ones he talks about the suggestion that evs will require massive investment in the electrical grid is off base. Cheaper overnight off-peak hydro costs will ensure that the majority of EVs are charged overnight when there's already excess generating capacity available. Yeah, what if there isn't when they all plug in, when there are 25 million EVs? Anyway, separate point.

A home charger can fully charge an EV overnight, 400 to 500 M's of range, while drawing a load not much different than a clothes dryer. Among the innovative solutions to the charging issue in Great Britain, I like this. As an example, they have started putting charging outlets into street lamps at a very reasonable cost of $1,500 per lamppost, while taking advantage of the existing electrical infrastructure that already exists. This is one of the great things about innovation. You keep looking at ways to improve it, right?

That's interesting. John Cordyback from North Saanich, British Columbia. Like many of your listeners, I enjoy the random ranter and his recent revilement of electric vehicles, and in his view, the people who drive them. He made a good point that hybrids are an excellent choice, they are a proven technology, and give you bang for the buck. Do you remember our friend Robert Lockhart?

Robert's been a fan of the bridge since we started, I don't know, almost two years ago. And Robert is a big EV guy. And he was our first guest on this topic. We devoted a whole show to Robert. And we had a great discussion about EVs and he sort of put the bridge onto the EV map in terms of talking about it. We've had other guests since then who have also highlighted the benefits of EVs.

So the ranters rant the other day, last week, was the first time we've had sort of like a counter view. And boy, have we heard from you on that. Anyway, Robert, who's a pretty reasonable guy, he's a very reasonable guy. He thought I better, I better write. Because as he starts off his letter, well, you were right, Peter, last week's rant about electric vehicles got my attention. I was sure it was going to. He writes, as he always does, his thesis on TVs.

It's a long letter. I'm just going to read one short paragraph. This is what Robert says. The ranter missed the most critical point. It's not about whether you like electric vehicles, if we'll have enough electricity, how green the grid is, or about the batteries. It's about the fact that in

industrialized nations, transportation of all types accounts for about 40% of greenhouse gas emissions and tailpipe emissions and dangerous to our health. We have to move faster to curb emissions and reduce our dependence on fossil fuels to slow down the warming of the planet. Driving a hybrid vehicle will do almost nothing to accomplish those goals. It's just another fuel-efficient gas vehicle. A better choice would be a plug-in hybrid vehicle that runs pollution-free for 20 to 70 clicks and then transitions to gas electric

mode and carries on for hundreds more clicks. The best choice for the environment is a fully electric vehicle. Sarah McDonald, she writes from Toronto. I say where Robert was, just for those who are wondering. He's just north of Peterborough,

in Selwyn, Ontario. Anyway, Sarah McDonald in Toronto writes this about the random ranter. She also has a letter that's full of all kinds of different topics. I picked the random ranter one, she has to say. I have to say I was not too keen on the random ranter for the first couple of weeks. I thought, who is this guy? What does he have to say that's so important?

But after the EV rant, most of which I agreed with, and even after the Canada flag rant, I was more inclined to give him a chance. And I realized that Peter would only give this space to a trusted individual. And then she goes on to try and guess who it is. She's not the first person to do that already. Over the last four or five weeks, I've had all kinds of letters of people trying to guess who it is. She's not the first person to do that already. Over the last four or five weeks, I've had all

kinds of letters of people trying to guess who it is. I don't play that game. I'm not going to play that game. I'm not going to react to anybody's guesses, no matter what those guesses are. And I'm not going to respond to Saro's either. I'm not even going to mention it because all it does is encourage others to try and play this game. The fact is, it's not important in my view. The ranter's anonymity is part of the character of this moment. And I know who it is.

I know it's not a partisan on any level. It's not a partisan in politics. It's not a partisan in business. It's not a partisan on EVs beyond what he's had to say in his commentaries. All right? And as he describes himself, I'm just a guy. And I know that he, in fact, is from and lives in Western Canada. And how have I defined Western Canada?

I know all of you don't agree with this, but this is my definition of Western Canada based on the time I've spent living in Western Canada. I define Western Canada as anywhere from Thunder Bay to Victoria. To me, that's the West. I know others say, no, no, no, it's Winnipeg to Victoria. Winnipeg's the gateway to the West. And it is.

I remember the first time, I was just in Winnipeg a couple days ago, and I always drive by the train station because I remember the day, the first time I traveled West, and I was on a train. And when we stopped in Winnipeg, I got out of the train, and I went through those doors of the railway station, out onto Portage Avenue, and there it was, the gateway to the west. But when I started working in the West and I spent a considerable amount of time

in Northwestern Ontario, to me it became Thunder Bay West. And that's the way I kind of look at it. I'm going to get going here. We're going to run out of time. And we're not, gosh, we're barely halfway through the ranter section. And the ranters coming up,

we'll close out the ranter section with the ranter. Spencer Stinson from Blenheim, Ontario. The random ranter was on point again. EV evangelicals fail to realize many gaps we still have to overcome to support a world where EVs are the dominating choice one thing I always ask people is do you think your electricity will still have low off-peak rates when you and all your neighbors are plugging in your vehicles in overnight this is the point I was making the obvious answer is, and our grid cannot handle this capacity right now as is.

I too think hybrids are a great answer for many people in Canada until we get our grid updated to handle the capacity and EVs overall come down in cost. and he sends data to back this claim up. I would also point out that the average Tesla owner is a white male with no children who makes over $140,000 a year, while the mean Canadian household total income is only approximately $75,000 for 2022. So our current EV driver is not an average person struggling with rising costs of living already very present in our current economy.

Julie Smith Allen from Lethbridge, Alberta. We had an exchange back and forth this week. Here's kind of the nub of it. Her feeling is that the ranter is basically biased in favor of hybrids. So here's what she writes. I listened to the ranter again, and strictly based on what he said, and regardless of who he is or his background, it's clear that he is recommending against EVs. Their electricity mostly comes from coal or gas.

The lack of electricity, these are the reasons she says the renter is against it, and cost to supply electricity. The expense of the vehicle. The fact that they are more performance-oriented than environmentally conscious. The water and mining required for lithium batteries and is recommending hybrid vehicles instead. Well, Julie will let him answer that in his rant this week. Tomek Nyat in Scarborough.

The random ranter is growing on me. My initial reaction was if I wanted to listen to any Random Ranter, I would look for a Random Ranter podcast. But now I'm starting to wonder, why only one? Thank you for changing Random Ranter music. It's so much easier on my ears. We're still having people who miss the old music, don't like the new music

um i also drive a hybrid and i agree with the ranter's point of view in general i also feel strongly about using factually correct arguments when comparing gas and electrical cars random ranter omitted the fact the factor of efficiency the-powered cars have efficiency well below 20%, meaning only about 16% of the energy from burned gasoline is used to move it, and the rest is wasted. To compare the efficiency of electric cars is in the mid-70s percent. Electric cars need less energy to produce the same results, to perform the same work, and the efficiency of fossil fuel hydro plants is still much higher than any gas-powered car. So as a whole, an electric car energy consumption is still easier on the environment, even when this energy is generated by traditional hydro plants. Glenn Gary in Victoria.

The Random Rancher talks about the grid not being able to support EVs and how disasters and air conditioners will ensure there is never enough power. If he knew about the grid, he'd know that it grows every year by about 1.5%. The grid of 1992 was 40% smaller than it is today. He could have also noted that there isn't a grid operator anywhere saying they can't expand to meet the needs coming on fast, including EVs. The renter could also have looked at Canada's current grid, which is 85% fossil fuel and GHG-free,g free not coal powered as he thinks in fact alberta will

retire its last coal generation in 2023 seven years ahead of the national 2030 coal ban and that alberta is leading the country in the installation of wind and solar to their grid is the rr really even from Western Canada? Hey, you're right about the wind and solar. People don't realize that, that Alberta is the Canadian leader. I remember spending time in, it would be southwestern Alberta, in some of those big wind farms, doing that very story. And that's 10 years ago, maybe more than that.

That's a great story. Let's see, where are we here? This one comes from Jason Craig in Conqueror Mills, Nova Scotia, who writes another doctorate on all kinds of different things, but I'm just isolating the sentence he has on the ranter for the purposes of this program today. Not everyone interested in an EV wants to use lithium-ion batteries, nor do they need to buy one from Tesla.

I'm a gearhead with plans to distill alcohol fuel for internal combustion engines, as well as do-it-yourself electric vehicle plans based around lead-acid batteries, off-the-shelf motors and components, while charging at home from a solar array. Now, not everyone's like me, but there are cooperatives and enthusiastic communities out there around both. The EV movement has more nuance than perhaps visible at first glance. Coming up. Two more letters and then we're into the ranter's reply. First, congratulations to into the ranter's reply first congratulations to

the random ranter this is from Steve Schleicher from Quadra Island BC congratulations to the random ranter for driving an electric car just not a very climate friendly one he's taking a knock at the hybrids here Here's his main point. 80% of Canadians have access to very clean electricity, so I feel it is incumbent on those who can afford to buy an electric car to do so.

Anything less is condemning someone in the developing world to less of a life than they should have. The less carbon we consume here will free up some to be admitted in the developing world. That's a good point, Steve. One we obviously frequently forget. Here's the last one on the rant. We've got a whole bunch more letters to go after we hear from the ranter.

Brian Boyd from Washago, Ontario. Coal is powering your EV, okay, but so what? That coal-burning power plant is running and producing energy, whether we use it for an EV or a toaster. A coal-burning power plant can be controlled with scrubbers and other cleaning options while they charge thousands of EVs that don't emit anything. The hurricane showed weaknesses in the power grid. Again, so what? You can't pump gas if there's no power either. EVs are like regular cars. They're all in various states of charge at people's homes, some full, some empty.

How are we going to power all these cars with the current grid? We have always expanded the grid in the past to meet needs, and as the technology has improved with off-the-grid living and the lowering costs of those systems, I suspect more people will opt to set up a system at home to recharge their cars. That is just a selection of some of the letters that came in over the last seven days about the random ranters rant last week on EVs. So he hasn't been hiding he's been listening he's been reading and as a result he's got a response here's this week's random renter there was lots of pushback on my EV rant. And first off, I want to agree 100% with everyone who said we need to stop spewing greenhouse gases.

Because we do. I'm also not going to take issue with all the folks who wrote in sharing their individual EV stories. Because I'm not arguing that an EV can't be great for you individually. I'm arguing that it's not the best way to reduce overall emissions. Both things can be true, but if you own an EV, I can see how you could be uncomfortable with that. To be clear, I'm not against EVs in the future. I'm against EVs as the situation stands right now. Currently, 95% of the vehicles on the road are internal combustion and we have limited resources for producing EVs. I think we can reduce emissions more by

pouring those limited resources into hybrids rather than EVs and I think I have some simple math on my side. Apples to apples comparisons are really hard but Toyota does make a RAV4 in and gas hybrid and a similarly sized EV The hybrid spews about 25% less carbon dioxide than the gas version best case scenario the EV spews nothing So follow me on this for every EV version on the road You'd be displacing the emissions of one gas rav4 for every four hybrid ravs You'd be displacing the emissions of one gas RAV4. But here's the thing. The EV has a battery that is 44 times larger than the hybrid RAVs.

So math being simple, you can choose the EV and take all those rare minerals, stick them in one battery and displace the emissions of one vehicle. Or you could use those minerals and build 44 hybrids to reduce the overall emissions by the equivalent of 11. 11 to 1. Argue my math all you want, but the ratio is always going to favor the hybrids. Mass hybridization with lower emissions more in the short-medium term, and it's actually doable and not dependent on any new infrastructure. Which brings me to my second point, the future of electricity. The news this week was rife with concerns for the grid, including from Ontario, where they're talking about having to extend the life of the Pickering

nuclear plant just to meet the current demand. But it's easy to dismiss the demand question when you own an EV, because at 5% of the market, the impact right now is minimal, and it must feel so great to be immune from gas prices. But what happens when the other 25 million vehicles plug in? What happens when global warming drives up our demand for air conditioning? What happens when we start electrifying our heating? And what happens when government subsidies go away? We're approaching an electrical precipice, and I'm not hearing a plan. I'm hearing conjecture, we can's and maybe's, but I'm reading about potential brownouts and hand-wringing by electrical utilities. I think we've put the EV cart before the horse and we

need to figure out the E before the V or we're just asking for trouble. I'm sorry EV people, you're passionate and you mean really well but we don't currently have the generating capacity or the resources that an ev future requires to go all baseball on you i think going all in now on ev is really just swinging for the fences and i think we're going Well, there you go. The ranter for this week. And I know that's... I'm not sure how many minds may have been changed as a result of that riot. Maybe some. Maybe none.

Whatever. This has been... This has been quite informative and to a degree entertaining over these last few days as we've gone back and forth on the whole issue of electric vehicles and I'm glad we've done it. I'm sure I might hear from some of you this week but that's basically the ranter has other rants that he wants to make and so he's going to be moving on next week to those. All right. We're going to take a quick break. Then we come back with more of your letters on more of a general nature right after this. And welcome back. You're listening to The Bridge, the Thursday edition,

the Your Turn edition, and the Random Ranter edition, right here on The Bridge on SiriusXM, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. And as we always say, no matter where you're listening, we're glad you're with us. Okay, more letters now of a more general nature. There's a lot of them here, so I'm going to get by them as quickly as possible.

Once again, I'm only lifting, you know, a sentence or two from each letter. So if you're listening and you hear your name called, don't expect to hear the whole thing. Daniel Rao from Calgary. The other day I was talking to a co-worker who's a trump supporter it wasn't a debate or a heated argument she had she said trump did some good things and i

agreed but at what cost clinton was remembered for his affair not the reforms he brought i do not believe people will remember trump for starting the COVID-19 vaccination program. Well, I'm not sure he started it, but he certainly agreed to fund the work that was going on. However, listen, I'm not a Trump fan. I haven't been all along, and I'm absolutely not one now. But I don't deny that there were some things that he did on the kind of trade front, I think is one of them, that you could argue were good for his country. But he's done so much to damage, you know, everything about politics in the United States that it's, you know, it's kind of, well, it's more than sad. Moving on, Mike Baranek from Belleville, Ontario. Recently,

I heard Pierre Polyev say something to the effect of being against woke political correctness. Can you tell me in lay terms what this means? What woke means? Well, the simplest way to define woke is what the actual definition is. The meaning of woke is aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues, especially issues of racial and social justice. It's pretty straightforward. It's pretty simple. It's become a political football because the right, especially the far right, likes to attack those who go for those principles of what being woke means. Kevin Harlow from Winnipegg so let me get this straight the people who have chosen successfully to get zero shots of covid vaccine are the largest group who think there

isn't enough freedom in canada some statistics speak for themselves. So says Kevin. Zach Shalala from Moncton, New Brunswick. I was in a coffee shop the other day and picked up a copy of my local newspaper, The Times and Transcript. I found it jarring to see the front page was dedicated 100% to an advertisement for a local car dealership.

Can you imagine this is what print journalism has become? I don't blame the newspaper. They're doing what they have to do to survive. But wouldn't you say at this point it's time to throw in the towel and go digital only? How many years of actual newspaper printing do we have left? Every time I think the actual printed copy is dead, something happens.

Like the New York Times, the publisher of the New York Times said about 10 years ago there wouldn't be a printed edition of the paper within five years. Turns out he was wrong. Turns out Trump sold him a lot of papers. And, you know, the print business, I wouldn't say it's thriving for the New York Times, but it's certainly doing better and it's on the plus side.

Dave Kellett from Lakefield, Ontario. I was listening to Good Talk last Friday, and for the first time, I kind of got rubbed the wrong way. Rob put forward the idea that Canadians are going to need to pay for climate change. I do not deny climate change at all, but I can't help but wonder, where are we expected to come up with this money?

Two years ago, I was living my best life. Bills were paid, making modest contribution to retirement fund, bought a house. Life was good. I haven't done anything wrong. I haven't lost my job or even any hours, but now it's not enough, not enough to get by with my humble lifestyle. I cannot afford to replace my vehicles at all. There's no way I could afford to go electric, not to mention there isn't an electric vehicle with tradesmen in mind. They are building electric trucks, but they cost like $100,000 plus.

You know, pickup trucks. Alan Adams from Dickey Road, population 6 in Pointe-la-Nim, New Brunswick. Can you kind of expand to a daily two-hour podcast so you can inform me and entertain me while I get my daily quota of 15,000 steps in? You're walking too much, Alan. 10,000 is enough. And, you know, 50 minutes max is enough on the podcast.

And the other day I used the expression in a conversation when there used to be a 24 Sussex. And Tom Smith writes, what did you mean by that? Well, what I meant was it's been about eight years since 24 Sussex Drive, the traditional home of the Prime Minister of Canada, has been used because it's in such a mess and because it would cost millions to fix it up and because nobody can agree on whether or not they should spend that kind of money. So it's been sitting empty. So that's what I meant. Robert McPherson in Vancouver. While listening to the, again, excellent Moore-Butts conversation and your brief discussion about Liz Truss and her admiration of Margaret

Thatcher, I wondered if you'd heard her French nickname, Joette de Verre, or the Iron Weathervane. Still, rigid, unyielding, and always pointing in whichever direction the wind's blowing. rigid unyielding and always pointing in whichever direction the wind's blowing um yes well listen the moore butts conversation ran on monday of this week and it was very popular and it you know it's a great non-partisan look at various elements of the canadian political scene and so if you haven't heard it yet you should listen to it there was number four it was the fourth conversation that uh james moore the former conservative cabinet minister and jerry butts the former liberal principal secretary to the prime minister

and quite enjoyed doing those mike donnelly from tecumseh ontario in government who actually sets policy direction So much is focused on the leader, but how much does he or she actually control? How much does caucus play a role, and how much does the PMO office play a role? And what, if any consequences, does a backbencher contribute? And this is as a result of the Mark Abbott's conversation the other day. You know, in a nutshell,

that's a topic for a full range of discussion, but you know, the prime minister is the prime minister. He's the first minister. He sits at the head of the cabinet table. He or she makes decisions. Cabinet has a lot to say in the decisions that are made, but eventually,

you know, the PM has got to decide. The backbenchers, you just talk to them. They'll tell you they have very little to say about anything. I mean, they have lots to say, but in terms of say in making things happen, they don't have much. The bureaucrats are there to deliver what the government of the day decides. They can give advice and suggestions,

but at the end, it's those around that cabinet table that make the big decisions. Mike McKinney from Kelowna, BC. I'd like to hear your opinion on what happened to Canada. I was born in 1971. I grew up in a country with abundant doctors and nurses, no waiting months for medical procedures, classrooms with 20 students, well-paid teachers, access to public transit. Many people living in northern areas now have no way to travel with greyhounds shutting down operations in Canada, affordable housing, safe neighborhoods did our population grow too quickly and outpace public services are taxes too low are not enough people paying taxes where does it all go i surely haven't felt any tax relief in the past couple of decades yet our government can't afford to maintain levels of health care we had 20 years ago mike i i couldn't put the case better than you just did.

And I don't know the answer. Maybe that's the basis of a good more butts conversation. Doug Clark from Castlegar, BC. With all our modern technology and social media, can we not reach the Russian citizens directly? Somehow Putin's lies must be corrected. Not sure how we do that. Although I see the Russian media is seemingly trying to do more of it.

Don Mitchell from Regina. We also have to stop developers and municipal provincial authorities approving developments from building on floodplains or draining wetlands for development. This is all part of the climate change discussion. We also need to entice landowners and farmers to set aside acres of their land for water retention. There is a lot we can do to mitigate the destruction from climate events just by not building infrastructure on vulnerable areas. Thinking that humans can out-engineer Mother Nature is a fool's errand.

Sean Tomachak from Sundry, Alberta. I'm a born and raised Albertan. For generations, my family have worked the lands of Western Canada and extracted the oil beneath our feet. I strongly value Western culture and heritage and love the West dearly. Western Canada has provided my family with everything in our lives. But I want out. The West is quickly falling behind.

Outdated beliefs are coming back into fashion. Tribalism is rampant. The Conservative government is catering to a minority group that would elect Trump if he moved here. Public sectors are getting reduced left and right, and education is getting censored. Our quality of life is falling. I don't want my family living in a place like that. I want my children to have an open mind free of judgment,

and I don't think Alberta can provide that anymore. You know, I'm in Alberta this week. I got a speech in Alberta. And, you know, I love Alberta. My parents lived in Alberta, spent a lot of time in that province. And I hear from a lot of Albertans. They don't all feel that way, Sean, but I respect your right to feel exactly as you do.

Jim Sellers writes from Edmonton. I'm confused and would appreciate if you could comment on the contradiction of conservative politicians and right-wing social media complaining about the media being liberal and too far to the left, when most of Canada's major media, excluding the CBC, are controlled by right-leaning ownership who push pro-conservative opinions. You're right about that. Case in point, most of Canada's newspapers are owned by post-media,

who regularly support conservative policies and politicians in their editorials and news coverage. Global TV, chorus radio are owned by a family that also doesn't hide its conservative bias with their AM talk radio shows firmly on the right. How then can we square this contradiction? Well, it's just a popular thing that the, the right is always maintained,

that the media is full of a liberal bias. And many Canadians feel that same way, in spite of the facts you just put on the table. Jamie Holmes from Aurora, Ontario. This is a result of the Mooer Butts conversation. I'm quite certain if we ask the people in glace bay in pei in the snow belt areas what their immediate pressures and crises are they will in fact say climate change somehow we need to pivot from thinking that all of the things that

are not related each disaster ends up with millions and perhaps billions being spent on recovery and yet the conversations always return to exactly how Mr. Butts presented it. Politicians being told that citizens do not feel it's oppressing an immediate concern. I believe we are seeing that it is. Christine McDonald from LaSalle, Ontario. Really enjoying Brian Stewart. He talks Tuesdays about Ukraine. The historical context helps to put the current situations in place

that we can understand as laypeople. Although I wish this wasn't happening, I do appreciate having this weekly unpacking and insight. As we get older, there's always more to learn, and I consider your podcast educational as well as entertaining. Thank you for that, Christine. Robert Bjarnason writes about Hockey Canada, and I don't even know where to start on this issue. We're going to have to address it.

Maybe I'll bring it up tomorrow on Good Talk. I see they've lost another sponsor, Tim Hortons, yesterday, and it was a Telus today. Robert Bjarnason writes from carberry manitoba hockey canada has inflated its own importance and its leadership smacks of entitlement and superiority the rink lights aren't going to turn off if hockey canada replaces its leadership hockey canada doesn't seem to realize that parents along with provincial and local hockey organizations, control the lights. David Forma. Love the show.

David writes somewhere in Alberta. Love the show as a counter to you and Bruce's Trump bashing and opposition. Here's some balance for you from his 2018 speech on energy and what has come true. That's the point I was making earlier. You can find something, I'm sure, that you can hold up and say, hey, he was right about this. Maybe. All I know is he was wrong about so much. I still think he's a con man and a fraud.

But, hey, that's just my opinion. Alan Mendez from Vancouver. Hey, I've got to hurry here. I'm never going to get through these. So listening to your September 30th good talk, both Rob and Chantel made a comment about Prime Minister Trudeau and what he did last year in Tofino that I think is misleading and incorrect. Rob made reference to Trudeau and his surfboard in Tofino.

I can't find any evidence that he ever was on a surfboard. I don't think you've looked hard enough, Alan. There's pictures online. Just Google Trudeau Tofino surfing. He did surf. He was surfing, and he's basically admitted to that, and he's admitted that that trip was badly timed. Nobody's denying the need for politicians to spend time with their kids

and their families, and I don't think they get enough of that. It was the question of timing on his part, especially seeing as he was the leading force to create that day of reflection. And it was the day that he hit the beach. Ian Gorman, the fact that this is on the Quebec election, the Legault won 70% of the seats from 41% of the vote. The Liberals got 21 seats seats from 41 of the vote the liberals got 21 seats from 14 of the vote the conservatives got no seats for 14 of the vote does not indicate that the voting

system needs reform voting supports democracy not by electing the best candidates or by electing candidates in proportion to popular support from their party but instead protects us by not allowing our rulers to choose the candidates for us. Last two quick letters. Annette Duvall from Barrie, Ontario. I just finished listening to the Tuesday edition of The Bridge with Brian Stewart. Every week I continue to be in awe of the breadth of military knowledge and understanding that Brian holds. I would love to hear him speak about the historical evolution of the Canadian military and where he thinks we go from here, both domestically and on the world stage. And Aaron Consor from Sherwood Park, Alberta.

Aaron writes, Hope you've convinced Brian Stewart to write a book. Does he need more convincing? I don't read a lot of nonfiction, but I'm eagerly waiting for Stewart to write a book. Does he need more convincing? I don't read a lot of nonfiction, but I'm eagerly waiting for him to write one. I'm serious. Can we ask him again, please? I will. I'll ask him again.

I've told him for years he should write a book, either about history or about his experiences on the road. I mean, I'm lucky. I get to hear his stories all the time, and they are fantastic stories. He has great stories to tell. And you can tell simply by listening to him on Tuesdays. He is such a wealth of knowledge and understanding, and he spends time researching. He doesn't sort of blurt out stuff like I do.

He actually knows what he's talking about. And that's what I've loved about the guy ever since I met him in the early 1970s. Okay, that's going to wrap it up for this day. Quite the day here on the bridge, the Your Turn Thursday edition, along with the random ranter. Boy, he knows how to get people talking. And I'm sure there are people scribbling away right now,

one way or the other, about what he had to say today. So next Thursday, your letters, The Mansbridge Podcast at gmail.com, The Mansbridge Podcast at gmail.com, and The Random Ranter. Tomorrow, it's good talk, Chantelle Hebert, Bruce Anderson. I don't know what we're going to talk about, but I'm sure we'll find something because you know what?

We always do. So thanks for listening on this day. We'll be back, as we like to say, in 24 hours. Thank you.