The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - The Random Ranter -- Advice for Pierre Poilievre

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

Another on-the-road edition of The Bridge, this time from Calgary. And this week the Random Ranter finishes his three-part series on his advice for each of the three main national political leaders. His focus this week is Conservative Party leader Pierre Poilievre. 

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. It's Thursday. That means, among other things, the Random Renter. Today, on Pierre Poliev. That's coming right up. And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here in Calgary for today. After a week of travels, it's been quite something. Enjoyed every moment of it. As I've mentioned more than a few times, I'm on a book tour. The new book, How Canada Works, that I've written with my good friend Mark Bullgutch, was released just last week. And as a result,

in these post-pandemic days, the publishers get you on the road to get out there and talk about the book with people who might be interested in purchasing it or at least hearing about it. And so that's what's been happening. It was, well, it was a week ago today that I started the tour by hitting a number of media organizations in Toronto, a number of appearances, appearing at the Hot Dogs Theatre last Thursday night. Great fun, great audience, lots of good questions,

lots of good back and forth, and lots of book signings. That's all part of the equation as well. Last Friday, it was on the road through the kind of messy conditions that exist in Canada in December. It's winter, eh? Eh? And so I was off to Sarnia last Friday night. Another great audience, great questions, a nice long book signing. That was fun. Saturday was a busy day. London, Ontario, Burlington, and Oakville. Sunday of last week, it was on the plane to Halifax and an appearance at one of the bookstores in Halifax

on Sunday afternoon. Monday was supposed to be in Ottawa. But once again, it's December. Things don't go according to plan the winter in our country. And they sure didn't on Monday of this week. Sat in the Halifax airport for seven hours, waiting for our flight to go to Ottawa. It never went.

It was a combination of the weather, aircraft maintenance issues, what have you. They took the safe route, and the safe route was to cancel the flight. So unfortunately, missed our stop in Ottawa, and a good crowd that had been waiting to have a chance to talk about the new book. But that didn't happen. Hopefully, I'm going to get to Ottawa at some point in the next couple of weeks, either before the holidays or after them. And we'll let you know if that happens.

Instead, we flew on to Winnipeg. we had a terrific evening in the Knox United Church in downtown Winnipeg. And last night, it was here at the fabulous Calgary Library. Beautiful spot. I think it opened five or six years ago. It's quite beautiful. And we had a wonderful evening in conjunction with Calgary's WordFest, where they bring in authors different times of the year to talk about their books and meet the public and answer questions. So that was my turn last night doing just that.

And it was thoroughly enjoyable and a wonderful crowd and great questions. And then a lengthy book signing. So it's been quite the last seven days. I'm heading back to Toronto today, a couple of events this weekend in Southern Ontario, in the Kitchener, Cambridge, Waterloo area, and also in Orangeville. So we're looking forward to those stops and meeting people as well. The beauty of the book tour, the kind of bonus for me in the book tour, is the opportunity once again to see the country

and to talk to its people. I mean, we've had the luxury, both Mark Bulgich and I, over our careers, over the last, well, pretty much half century, one of the things journalists get to do is talk to people, is to meet people, is to hear their concerns about the issues of the day. And because I've had the opportunity to anchor a major network newscast, I've also had the opportunity to travel. It was one of the things that I was adamant about when I became the chief correspondent of The National is that we take the show on the road as often as possible. It's expensive.

It was very expensive in the early days to do that. In a way, less so now because of technology and the things you can do, the places you can go, the places you can broadcast from, literally anywhere in the world, and at times on a phone. You know, I saw a piece by Katie Simpson the other day on the CBC where she did it all herself. She had her phone.

She interviewed one of the officials in Washington about their visit to Washington and what was at stake, but she did, she's kind of, she didn't trap this guy, but she did sort of stake him out and whipped out her phone and did the interview, and moments later it was on the air across Canada. So it's a lot simpler today than it used to be. But the demands on journalists to get to those important interviews and to explain issues for people is just the same. But the point I was trying to make before I started rambling is that this opportunity to travel the country that I've had over the last 50 years

has been a wonderful opportunity to meet people, to hear their concerns. And people aren't shy. Once they get over the saying, hey, I've watched you on TV, enjoy your program, or I don't enjoy your program. But then you get into the more detailed feelings about issues, about governments, about inflation, you name it. You hear it all when

you're on the road. And you also hear about what these people do. And that's what we wanted to accomplish through our book, How Canada Works. We wanted to try to understand how the kind of everyday jobs and the so-called ordinary people really make the country work. There is this debate that goes on at times about whether or not the country is broken, and I understand that debate and that

discussion. It's worthy to have. But that's kind of a political argument. That's not what we were interested in. We didn't want to talk to the big time leaders in the country. We wanted to talk to the people about what was on their minds, how they did their jobs, how their jobs impact not only their lives but our lives, how we're all in many ways connected. So that's what we were hoping to accomplish, and it seems to have had a connection to readers. We're lucky in this country because we are kind of a nation of readers. And every time I do one of these book tours or these opportunities to talk to people who are reading

the books, I'm always amazed at how many. I mean, last night here in Calgary at the library. It was sold out. It was, you know, 300 plus people. The room was packed. To hear little old me talk about our little old book, How Canada Works. And, you know, explain stuff, answer questions.

A lot of the questions, as I guess not surprisingly, turn to the media and how the media does its job and how things have changed. Because they have changed. The whole landscape of the way journalism is seen by people, the debate around misinformation and disinformation, the debate around bias, the debate around the changing technology, how especially in television we've moved from kind of, or we're moving from linear television,

the way we've watched television all our lives, to a much different digital operation, how traditional channels just aren't watched the way they used to be watched. Streaming services are watched in huge numbers. Anyway, listening to all this, I mean, it's a wonderful opportunity. I've had this opportunity all my life to travel, to listen to people, and to let my feelings about issues and concerns be shaped many times by the people I listen to. Now, at times you get trapped. You know, I agree with the theory that at times the kind of legacy media,

the big media organizations that are in our country are mostly centered, not exclusively, but mostly centered in southern Ontario and in Toronto in particular, just like in the States, they're mostly centered in New York City. You can get trapped by that kind of inside, in this case, Toronto, kind of a Toronto-centric attitude towards events around the country. That happens. It's only natural if you don't get out, if you don't talk to people in different parts of the country. That's always been the case.

And so I've always tried to get out as much as I can, even if it's just to simply get out to give a speech or do a big interview in a different location. Even if it's just talking to cab drivers, talking to hotel staff, talking to restaurant staff. When you have those opportunities, it has an impact. It has an impact on you. By now you've figured out this is a different kind of your turn

in the Random Ranter program for Thursdays. One of the things about being on the road living out of a suitcase is it's a little hard to keep track of the mail that's been coming in. I still read as much as I can, but there are going to be a few letters on today's program. I will go through them all when I get back, and we'll try to organize something before the end of the year for sure, certainly by next Thursday, for a traditional your turn.

Those are a few letters in here today. But they're of a different strain, if you wish. And I've got a few other comments. Let me make one last comment about last night in Calgary because it helps underline one of the big problems we have in cities right across the country. The impact that inflation has had, the impact that high food prices have had

on those who are less fortunate. Drive up to the library last night, Calgary's beautiful public library. Relatively new, as I said, I think it's five or six years old. It was in an area of downtown Calgary that's been, what's that term, gentrified. But it's still a mix, right? So we had a situation last night where you've got this beautiful building,

the flowing, spectacular kind of staircase up to the entrance areas. And you've got some of Calgary's finest arriving to listen to a nice evening talking about a book. While still in areas immediately outside the library are those who were living in a situation that's far less fortunate. You know, people pushing shopping carts

filled with all their worldly belongings, whose survival depends on, among other things, food banks. But food banks do answer that question of how Canada works. Out of the goodwill of those who work in food banks, out of the goodwill of those who contribute to food banks, we're able to have an impact. And you could see that last night, that kind of clash of where we stand

at a time of difficulty in our society. You know, I saw a story when I was flipping through the news today, and it was online at the CBC, which is the online service at CBC is number one in Canada. It's fantastic, and it has more people logging on to it for information and news than any other online site in Canada, Canadian online site. Anyway, the headline is, expect some food prices to get cheaper next year,

but typical grocery bills may still go up by $700 a year. So you go, wait a minute, if they're getting cheaper, why is it going up? Well, the push on food prices has been successful. Let me read a little bit of this, because when I was reading this this morning, I was thinking of those people who are not as well off as many of the rest of us. But Pete Evans, who's a writer for CBC, wrote this. Savvy shoppers should be able to find a few bargains at the grocery store next year, but even with prices for some essentials falling,

the typical Canadian family's overall grocery bill is set to increase by about $700 next year. That's the main takeaway from a closely watched annual report on the food industry, the 14th version, released by Dehousie University, the University of Guelph, the University of British Columbia, and the University of Saskatchewan. Last year, as inflation was only beginning to rear its ugly head, the report predicted food prices would increase by between 5% and 7% in 2023. As it turned out, that was remarkably accurate. A stat scan shows the food component of the Consumer Price Index has risen by 5.9% in the last 12 months.

Every year, the report tabulates what an annual healthy grocery basket would be for a family of four, an adult man and a woman, a teenage boy and a preteen girl. Last year, lead researcher Sylvain Charlebois and his team forecasted that a typical family would end up paying $1,065 more for food in 2023, bringing the annual family tally to over $16,000. Here's one of the things they found out. Consumers have cut back on what they eat. I guess that's not surprising. We've decided, man, these prices are going up so fast,

I can't deal with it. My budget won't allow it. So what am I not going to eat? What am I not going to have? And in some cases, those things are kind of key to your health. But that's what's been going on. We've changed our diet in some cases, and it's had an impact. So looking forward to the next year, well, we're going to see some prices falling,

others going up. And overall, we're going to end up paying a little more. This becomes the issue again for so many Canadians, and it has an impact on everything, including our politics, as you know. Quick snapshot of where things are going. Here's where you're going to be paying more. Meat up as much as 7%. Vegetables, 7%. Bakery, 7%. Restaurant costs up 5%.

Cost to us, seafood up 5%. Dairy, 3%. Fruits, 3%. Well, there you go. All right. Here's my last plug on how Canada works. Our book. The book by Mark Boguch and myself. What we try to accomplish here is talk to Canadians about their jobs.

Most Canadians love their jobs. They love the impact they can have. They love how it impacts their community, their country. And what we were trying to get at is, how'd they end up in that job? They get little attention from anybody, including the media, but they are part of the instrument we call Canada. They are part of the way our country works. And so we try to get at that. And in every one of these stories, there are 28 of them in the book, 28 profiles of jobs and the people in them.

In every one, you're going to learn things about a job that perhaps you knew existed, but you never really thought about it. You never really thought about how that job operates and how it impacts you, how we're all connected. So if you get an opportunity to read it, I hope you do, because I think it'll tell you something about your country. The good, the bad, and all that category in the middle. All right, here's the first letter for this week. Here's where you're wondering, where are the letters?

When you read a letter, here's a letter that I love reading. I got it yesterday. I read it while I was still on the plane. I had just landed in Calgary, and I turned my phone on, and I was going through my emails, and this one popped up. It says, hey, Peter, welcome to Calgary. I was going to say that I hope all is well, but I know all is well because I listen to your podcast. Yep, I'm one of the 10 million downloads. Retirement is treating me well,

but I still feel a tug when big events happen. It can't be helped. And I keep reading this. You try and guess who this person might be. Retirement is treating me well, but I still feel a tug when big events happen. It can't be helped. But that is not why I'm writing. I'm using your podcast email only because it's the only one I have. I listened to your interview with Ken McGugan. That was two days ago. And I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed it. It brought back a flood of memories of the travels that we shared wandering the North. People often ask, what was my favorite shoot or trip? And even though I have been fortunate to travel the world with work,

it is without hesitation that I say my trips to the north, I blame you for that. Your conversation with Ken reminded me of that. My daughters have now graduated, one's a nurse and another's in environmental science. And because of my travels up north and my stories I shared with my family about those trips, both are now exploring the possibility of working up there. I hope they do, even if it's only for a short time. Anyway, I'm enjoying your podcast, but wanted to let you know the impact our trips to the north had on me, and perhaps my daughters as well.

Take care and watch where you step. I think that's a reference to me doing a face plant off the stage the other night in Winnipeg. P.S. I'll pick up Ken's book and, yes, I'll even get a copy of your latest one as well. It's signed by Dave Ray, who, and yes, I'll even get a copy of your latest one as well. It's signed by Dave Ray, who, you know, you've probably never heard of before, Dave, unless you read my last book, Off the Record. I talked about Dave more than a few times in there. Dave Ray was, and still is, a photographer, a cameraman,

video cameraman, a news cameraman. And Dave and I traveled, you know, literally all over the world together. And he was a fabulous companion on the road. You know, we traveled, as he says, to the Arctic, going through the Northwest Passage, different places in the Arctic, telling the story of the changing nature of the Arctic because of climate change. We traveled to, well, we traveled to all the regular places, you know, Britain, France, Italy, for different events of different kinds.

To the States and into war zones. Others in the Middle East, Afghanistan. And I can remember on those nights in Afghanistan where Dave would talk about his daughters. They were young then, and the first time we went to Afghanistan was like in the early 2000s, and there was war going on, and you sit around and you talk about things

that make you comfortable, and for Dave, one of the things he talked about often was his two beautiful daughters. And it's so great to realize how time flies. They're both in university now. I'm thinking about where they might want to work and the impact the North had on Dave. I'll tell you one story when we were in Afghanistan.

This is why I love the guy so much. This was, I think, about 2006. So Afghanistan had been so-called liberated by then. But you know what? It was a mess. It was run by a corrupt guy Hamad Karzai was the prime minister

the president he got all the you know handshakes in the White House and in Ottawa and various capitals around the world but

things weren't changing like had been the intention of the coalition forces after 9-11 when they got in and kicked out the Taliban. They were going to change things. They were going to make things right.

They were going to make it a democracy. Everybody was going to be served properly. The people would be the important factor. Well, we were leaving Afghanistan one day, and we were in the airport in Kabul. And it was a nightmare in there. And we weren't going to make it out because of, you know, lineups and disorganization. There was only one way we made it out.

And that was Dave standing at the counter with me beside him wondering what was going to happen whether we'd ever get out and Dave reached into his pocket and he pulled out some cash that's how we got out

the system was corrupt. You had to buy your way out of town. I knew then this was not going to work. This experiment on democratizing supposedly Afghanistan was not going to work. And sure enough, as we all know, it didn't. And guess who's back in the saddle? The Taliban. Anyway, it was great to hear in this letter from Dave. And, you know, he's retired now too. It's hard for both of us to imagine, I think.

But those memories, and it's true for me as well, of all the places I've been in the world, and I've been to many, so has Dave. The place we cherish the most, the trips we cherish the most, for the excitement, the history. It's Canada's Arctic. And I know we were lucky to get there because it's incredibly expensive to travel in Canada's North. And we were lucky because it was part of our job.

If you want to go to the Arctic, to see the Arctic, which I really hope those of you who want to get that opportunity, you're going to have to start saving up because it costs a lot to travel in Canada's Arctic. All right. I am going to read a couple of other letters, but we're going to take our break. And when we come back, we're going to hear the ranter. The ranter is the final part of his three-part series. That's coming up right after this. And welcome back. Peter Mansbridge here in Calgary, Alberta today.

You're listening to The Bridge, the Thursday episode right here on Sirius XM, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. Glad you're with us. Okay, the random ranter a couple of weeks ago started a three-part series. He wanted to do, he appealed to me, he said, look, I've got some ideas, I want to talk about our political leaders, the three main national party leaders. So, you know, Justin Trudeau, Pierre Poliev, Jagmeet Singh.

So the first two weeks he did Trudeau, and he did Singh, and he didn't hold back on either one. So why would we expect him to hold back on Pierre Polyev? That's who he is going to talk about today. The random ranter on Pierre Polyev. Here we go. And this is his advice Pierre Polyev. Here we go. And this is his advice to Polyev, right? This isn't just his take on Polyev.

It's his advice. What the ranter thinks each of these three leaders should do. So if you haven't heard the other two, you should dial back and listen to them as well. But here he is on the conservative leader, Pierre Polyev. In my opinion, Pierre Polyev has some real strengths. He's a plain speaker. He's great at simplifying issues, and he's got a knack for scoring points on the government. Those are all great attributes when you're in opposition. But at a certain point, his brand of grievance politics isn't going to cut it anymore. He's going to need to put forward some actual policies, and those policies will need to be fact-backed, which may be a problem for him. Now, I'm not saying he makes things up, but he has no problem with presenting out-of-context

extreme cases as norms. Just watch his housing advertorial. Great production value, but beyond the surface, the underlying support for the arguments is pretty cherry-picked. And I'm not even sure from which orchard, because I saw a lot of numbers, but what I didn't see was any reference to their sources. But that's kind of Polyev in a nutshell. Some would call him a spin master and others would call him a troll. But what I see is a guy more concerned with scoring points than with truth, who's got no problem venturing into the boy who cried wolf territory if it means he comes out the winner. Now, you don't need to read between the lines to figure out I'm not a Polyev fan. But I'll set that aside and offer him up some free advice.

So here we go. Bring back the glasses and cut back on the airbrushing. Because the first thing I'd do if I were making a liberal attack ad is put a picture of the new you next to a picture of the old you, and the caption would read, if he can't be true to himself, how can he be true to you? Look, you don't need to be someone else. Just be yourself. Or better yet, be 80% of yourself. Just dial the worst parts back a bit. The lead is yours to lose, so there's no need to overstate everything to the extremes. And on the topic of extremes, let's talk about your base. They're important, no doubt. But at this point, you need to rein them in. Don't let the lead in the polls go to their heads. Keep them quiet.

Your base is going to vote for you no matter what, but give them too much of a voice now and they'll scare away the centrist voters you need. And make no mistake, you're going to need them. Because while it looks pretty rosy right now, don't go overestimating the strength of your support. I mean, how much of that is actual support for you versus just wanting a change from Trudeau? Remember the old adage, defense wins championships. Well, you're in the lead now. The other parties will be gunning for you. That big blue grievance machine of yours is going to be tested and holes will be poked in everything you say. So you're going to need to build a support team. And that could be a problem for you

because I went online today and perused the list of Conservative MPs. And outside of Ottawa, I'd challenge any Canadian to name three that aren't you or Andrew Scheer. Which brings me to my last point. In perusing your MPs, I couldn't help but notice that while diversity might be a strength, it's certainly not your strength. You might want to work on that for the next election. Because all Canadians deserve to see themselves represented in government. All right. There you got it. The random rander,

his advice to each of the three main national party leaders. Interesting thoughts. And there they were today on Pierre Poliev. Okay, I promised you a couple of letters for this week, and I'm going to get to them now. There were a lot of comments on our program yesterday about the CBC. I think most Canadians have strong opinions about the CBC and about how they feel the corporation does as a national public broadcaster. And not only that, whether they meet the ideas, the aspirations, the sort of original mandate of the CBC to reflect the country to itself and to work as a kind of bulwark against the influence of american media that was the goal that's why it existed that's why you spent 1.3 billion dollars last year supporting the national public broadcaster

now it goes without saying that I'm a CBC person. I believe in the CBC, the reason for the CBC. I haven't worked there for the last seven years, but I still believe that. I have problems and troubles with the way the organization makes decisions at times, and always have had, and haven't been shy about expressing my opinions internally,

and now I can do it from outside as well. All right, a couple of letters. One from either side here. Grant Dachuk. Grant writes, I heard the last part of your discussion today about how disconnected the CBC seems to be with their employees, Grant writes, experience. Not that long ago, I would go straight to the CBC to get my news. I trusted it wholeheartedly. And today, I desperately want that back. But what happened the other day is just another example of why I absolutely despise the CBC now, and don't trust it even a little bit.

Again, this is just the latest example. It didn't just happen over this one incident. It's been brewing for a while as I keep trying to watch and read their articles, but lately it's been turning into just watching and reading for entertainment rather than facts about what's going on. They had the comment section open for a while on a story about the announcement of the CBC budget cuts. I thought my comment was benign enough for the CBC,

but it was instead, and it was, instead of laying off a bunch of CBC employees, hire them to tell the other side of the story, the side of the story the main CBC chooses not to tell. Okay, so we know Grant's bias here. He's convinced the CBC only ever tells one side of the story. Anyway, he says, that comment that I was making was deactivated.

This moderation has been going on for a few years now, and when comments as benign as that get deactivated, it's very frustrating. I'm sure I'm not alone in my frustration in their moderation. And the end result is you lose faith or trust that our national broadcaster isn't picking sides and therefore they're losing viewers by the boatload. They have to grow thicker skin if they want to be in the game these days.

I realize it's an almost impossible task to allow one comment and deactivate another, but when you can scroll through and see far more nasty comments, but somewhat supportive of not being deactivated, one can't help but conclude the fix is in, and they're no longer a trustworthy source. They have plenty more issues than just their comment section, but if they're no longer a trustworthy source. They have plenty more issues than just their comments section, but if they're sitting around their board meeting discussing media trust issues, it's as simple as the example above

for a once-upon-a-time guy that never gave it a second thought. There, I vented. Keep up the good work, even when I don't agree. In these parts, you'd be considered a keeper. Well, thanks, Grant. And, you know, thanks for venting. You know, I'd be careful about some of your rushes to judgment. I mean, losing viewers by the boatload.

Viewers are disappearing from legacy television, from linear television. That's happening. They're going elsewhere. And they have been going to different digital operations that CBC operates. And there's no question about that. The numbers are there. They do quite well on the digital side. Does it make up for all the losses that have happened as a result of the changing nature of broadcasting, Canada? Absolutely not. You're right about that.

But you've got to look around. It's, you know, television, for example, is not just your old traditional cable TV. That's not it anymore. And it's a struggle and a change and a hardship for a lot of people as those changes take place. The moderation issue on comments,

I mean, you've latched on to something there that is an issue. People feel strongly about it. I mean, I look at our YouTube channel, and it is manipulated by trolls in terms of comments. We get a lot of honest, good, constructive comments both ways, criticizing and praising the kind of programming we do, but we also get a lot of garbage. And it's just mean-spirited, ugly stuff that nobody signs off on.

It's just a number or some supposedly interesting nickname to the writer, but it's mostly trolls and bots. So that's an issue. So what do you do? Do you shut it all down just to get rid of the garbage? Or do you let it play? I don't know. Maybe you have a view on that. Okay, here's the last letter. This one comes from Tobias Frank Anth-Weinhardt in Hamilton. I think it's really sad that we've reached a point where so many people think it

would be okay to get rid of the CBC. First, let me say how important I believe it is that we have a public broadcaster. With the news landscape becoming less and less trustworthy, it becomes more and more important to have a trustworthy source. Unfortunately, the CBC has lost the trust of a good-sized segment of the Canadian population. I wonder, however, how many of these people actually ever listened to the CBC. I, too, was of the opinion that the CBC was too progressive. Then I actually decided to listen to several CBC political podcasts. It's clear that most, if not all, of the pundits on those shows

are mainstream progressives at heart. For the most part, they keep their personal feelings under wraps and present themselves as professionally balanced commentators. We have to remember these people are human beings with personal beliefs. All we can ask is that they do their jobs professionally. We can't expect them to not have personal beliefs. It would be nice, however, if some of them had conservative personal beliefs. It's probably true that there are next to no conservative voices inside the CBC. That's not true. I can see lots of programming that might appeal to progressives.

I don't see much that would appeal to your average conservative. That's a bit of a problem. We need the CBC, but the CBC needs to maintain our trust. It's up to the CBC to work overtime to regain and maintain our trust. It can do this by doing a better job at programming. Or maybe it should just focus on raw, unbiased news gathering without commentary or editorial. But that seems pretty boring. I have a sneaking suspicion that if we got rid of the CBC, we would find out too late that we've jettisoned a crucial support for our democracy. Maybe conservatives need to think about being more conservative with one of our most important institutions.

Eliminating it is radical, not conservative. Toby Reinhart, Hamilton. Those are the kind of letters I love, right? Lay it all out there in a constructive way. Clearly, you know, we disagree on a couple of points, but overall, I've got a lot of time for what Toby's written there. That's the kind of discussion we need to have. And the CBC needs to have at its highest levels

instead of worrying about whether or not they're going to get their bonuses. All right. I was going to say other stuff today, because we've got some changes coming up on the bridge, but we've got two weeks until the holidays, and I'll explain them then, but I'm just finishing a three-year contract with SiriusXM.

It's been terrific. I've enjoyed working with the people at Sirius, and I will continue to work with them. But we are going to see a few little changes in our programming schedule. You know, I'm getting old. Got to figure out a way to do this and maintain my health.

The easiest way for me to maintain my health is to listen to you and to exchange our views with you. We don't always agree, and that's okay. I probably got, I don't know, 25 letters on the CBC in the last 24 hours. And there are ones on both sides. I just read two, one from kind of each side of the divide about the CBC. But the fact that you're thinking about it, I love that, and that we've helped inspire you to think about the direction you want to take.

Shut her down, defund it, or improve it. Lots of different feelings out there. Okay, going to wrap it up. Tomorrow, it's Good Talk. Bruce and Chantel will be here, and as we always do, we'll certainly find things to talk about. And that broadcast will be also available

on our YouTube channel. So I'm Peter Mansbridge. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you again in 24 hours.