The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - The Reopening Debate Is Underway -- But Don't Forget Your Mask!

Episode Date: May 6, 2020

After two days of special podcasts on topics other than COVID-19 it's back to that matter at hand.

and hello there Peter Mansbridge here with the latest episode of the bridge daily here we are in the middle of week eight of the special Bridge Daily podcast. Week eight already. Man, time sure flies when you're having fun. Now, I know, this isn't fun and time's not flying. But there you go. Let me start today by thanking so many of you who've written over the last couple of days to talk about the first two podcasts of this week. Monday night was about the liberation of the Netherlands and Canada's role in that.

And last night was a kind of look back at great leadership, leadership of FDR in 1933, as he began his run of presidencies in the middle of the Great Depression. And I think what that has told me is that a lot of you like history, especially if you can draw some kind of link to today. And that's obviously what we've been trying to do in our special podcast this weekend in the past where we've tried to sort of reach back a bit, look for something, and bring it forward. And I really appreciate your comments and your letters about these two last podcasts.

And I'll be using some of that mail on the weekend special coming up on the end of this week. And I realized, actually, that I had forgotten to give out the email address for those of you who are either new listeners or who may not have remembered it from before. So if you want to write, don't be shy, themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com, themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. And as you know, on the weekends, we do have some fun with your mail. And it's one of the most popular podcasts each week,

what we call the weekend special. All right, we're not at the weekend yet, so we do have things to do, and we've got a bit of catch-up to play over these last couple of days of special podcasts. So let me do that. I want to touch a couple of bases here on some things that are relevant. After being told, remember, initially, we were told you didn't need to worry about masks, masks weren't something that was really that important. And it became masks are important. You should wear a mask. And lately, even it's sort of, you should wear a mask all the time.

We want you to get out. We want you to enjoy the, you know, the spring weather. But wherever you are, even if you're out in the park and you seem to be fairly alone, you should wear a mask. Okay. Now, initially, even if they told you that, you couldn't find a mask anywhere. Now masks are kind of available. Not the N95, the really good ones, those very protective ones that are for frontline healthcare workers, but the non-surgical masks. You can, you know, you do a little hunting around, you can get those, you can find them and so finally in the last week or so i've managed to get my hands on some and uh i think it was yesterday or the day before i was walking down to the community mailbox that we have here in stratford to pick up the mail. And when I got back, Cynthia said,

hey, you didn't wear a mask. You're supposed to wear a mask. And I said, I was just going down to the mailbox. And she said, well, you're supposed to wear a mask when you go out walking. You never know. You should wear one. So I said, okay, I will.

And this morning when I got up, I hadn't checked the mail in a couple of days, so I headed down to the old community mailbox, and I was wearing my mask. Walked down there. It's cool this morning. Sunny but cool, so I was wearing a toque. I was listening to something on the headphones.

And I was wearing a mask. So I went down, got the mail, brought it back, wiped it down with a disinfectant towel. And then I thought, well, you know, I'm feeling good here. I'm going to keep doing some steps. So I'll go into the backyard and do steps. So I went into the backyard and I was marching around the backyard doing my steps, listening to my headphones, and all of a sudden I see Cynthia come running out the back door.

She was clear that she wasn't yelling, but she wanted me to hear something, so I pulled the headphones out. I said, what's the problem? She said, take the mask off. You're in the backyard. You're going to have everybody worried about what kind of shape you're in. You may be looking into the backyard.

And I suddenly realized I still have my mask on, walking in the backyard. So I figured, okay, she's got a point. It probably looks pretty silly walking in the backyard. It's not like there's anybody else there, but other people, you know, neighbors can kind of look in, and they see, and there's Mansbridge walking around the backyard in a mask. Really? However, anyway, I took the mask off, but however,

I've been doing a little reading, a little reading on things I've missed in the last couple of days, and I pick up the Washington Post from yesterday. Headline, masks are here to stay, and they're quickly becoming a way to express ourselves. Boy, it wasn't going to take long before this became a fashion statement, right? So let me read a couple of lines out of the story. Fashion always finds a way. Human beings are undaunted in their search for ways to stand out, to communicate, to thrive in a

treacherous environment. And so the face mask, once purely functional, once perceived as an exotic accessory, has evolved at breakneck speed into something more. It's now essential. And the article continues. As the country moves towards reopening, masks are assuredly part of our future. And in some ways, their evolution is the perfect encapsulation of how much life has changed in the blink of an eye. Now challenging both intellectually and emotionally, it will be for us to go forward.

This is a long article. It's like 10 pages long when you print it up. I'll just read one other part. The fashion industry fully committed to the effort. If a shopper goes to Etsy, I don't know what Etsy is, but I assume it's something special in Washington, there are, at last count, 250 pages of colorful pattern non-medical masks to click through. There are masks for every taste

and budget. Some are printed with Edward Munch-like open mouth screams. Goth masks mimic skeletal jaws. Disney is offering a pre-order on four packs of masks featuring its signature characters. High-end versions are constructed from fine Italian fabrics that really should be hand-washed rather than thrown into the Maytag. Others are covered in sequins. Some masks look to be so dense that they'd impede breathing. Nonetheless, they are stunning. Masks for fashionistas. Now, I shouldn't make fun because I've just ordered

from Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment the Toronto Maple Leafs mask. I can just see us all sitting there in the Scotiabank arena when and if hockey ever comes back. And we'll be wearing our face masks because they are going to become a part of what we wear. Like gloves and scarves and, hey, don't forget your face mask. All the better if you have your Leafs face mask on when you go to a Leafs

game, right? Okay, moving on. I think we've all noticed that things are starting to happen in different parts of the world in terms of reopening. You've got to keep in mind there's kind of a wave. This wave started in Asia, of course, right? It started in China, and then there was South Korea and Japan. And then it went into Europe, Italy, Spain, other European countries, UK, and then into North America. And there's kind of been a couple of weeks between each one of those blocks, Asia, Europe, North America.

So we're kind of a couple of weeks behind Europe in terms of the severity of this, or at least that's generally the way it's being looked at. But I don't know, you wouldn't know it because everybody in all three of those areas is now talking about reopening. The Asian side, they're into it now. They're reopening. It's happened in China. It's happening in South Korea. It's happening in Europe. Now, there are those, though, that are being very cautious about reopening.

The speed of reopening, the extent of reopening. So you have to look for where to learn. And Europe says it's been learning from Asia. North America says it's learning from Europe. And even in North America, the area that seemed to be hit first, not just seemed to be, but was hit first, was the Western United States and Western Canada,

B.C. and the state of Washington in particular. Washington recorded the first case of COVID-19. It recorded the first death of COVID-19. It moved very quickly. Both the governor and the mayor of Seattle moved quickly on measures to lock things down. And it definitely seemed to work. They had problems. They had issues.

They had long-term care issues. But they flattened the curve fairly quickly. And so they're coming out, but they're coming out slowly. There was a piece in the New Yorker this week that talks about the situation in the state of Washington. And once again, I'll read you just a couple of sentences from it because I think we can all learn from this and we should all keep these in mind.

The mayor of Seattle relishes the day when we can roll back all the restrictions. But we're not there yet, she told last month. She just signed a one-time order closing 15 of the city's largest parks for the upcoming weekend. Defying the social distancing orders, some people had been showing up at beaches and on tennis and basketball courts. The mayor needed the civically dutiful ones, the unfriendly and chilly ones, and especially rebellious ones to know this. We can't go and have our social gatherings and barbecues and picnics. For now, we stay at home and wait. And this is the article's author talking now. We watch other regions that are in the position we were in weeks before. The wave of casualties and economic destruction that first hit Seattle has

long since rolled across the country. Every city a replica of our empty boarded up home. But here in the first U.S. state with a confirmed case, the first to log a death, there is cause however modest for optimism. We showed that there's a way to slow the spread, that it could, in fact, be done. At the beginning of all this, at the start of March, as the death count climbed, and we stopped shaking hands and sitting in the same rooms together,

I thought of Seattle as living in the laboratory of the nation's future. I hoped I was wrong. Now I hope I'm right. James Ross Gardner's piece in The New Yorker this week from Seattle. Talking about how they fought and were cautious and remain cautious about how to reopen, that it's showing itself as a laboratory of the future. That's what he's hoping he's right. But clearly he's worried that other places haven't learned the lesson, that you can't come out of this fast.

Now, I've talked in the past about Angela Merkel and her leadership in Germany, a country of what? About 80 million? I think a little more than 80 million. A little more than double our population. Germany. She's been a strong leader and one that a lot of people have admired on how she's handled the situation, how she moved on a lockdown, how she restricted movements and enforced social distancing.

Well, Germany, Angela Merkel, today, held a summit, a video summit, of other leaders of the different states within that country, like the premiers, like provinces. And the whole idea of the summit was to move to a wider reopening of society.

Now, I haven't publicly announced details yet, at least I haven't seen them, but there's a leaked draft of the deal going around, and according to it, shops and schools and the Bundesliga Football League will all be a part of an extensive plan to emerge from the coronavirus lockdown. And apparently the states, the provinces, have reportedly agreed to take control of the timing of this opening. We've seen this argument in other countries, especially south of the border,

who's really responsible, the states, or is it the federal government? And depending on Trump's mood of the day, it goes back and forth. If he thinks he's in trouble, it's the state's problem. If he thinks it's looking good, it's his problem. So Germany has seen fewer than 7,000 deaths in the coronavirus pandemic. That's a much lower figure than seen in other Western European countries,

including, you know, the United Kingdom, including France and Spain and Italy. Germany's count is, you know, it's still a lot of people. But its count is low compared with everybody else's. And the credit seems to go to the measures that were put in place and the commitment on the part of the German people, to follow those measures. So tell me more about that reopening plan, you say, because if Germany's doing it, maybe there's a hint here as to what's going to happen with us,

although we're already seeing things happen, and you saw the latest announcement from Ontario about how it's going to start opening things up this weekend, slowly. But they are. Germany, schools have already begun opening for older children. The plan is now for all pupils to return to school gradually during the summer term. Germany, in common with other countries, is wary of a second surge in infections if new infections rise to above 50 people in every 100,000 over a seven-day period. Get that? 50 people in every 100,000 over a seven-day period. Then in the affected areas,

the reopening will be reversed. That's the idea coming out of this leaked document from today's summit. Shops of all sizes will be allowed to reopen under the draft deal. Restaurants, hotels, and gyms too. That's way ahead of us. Is it two weeks ahead of us, given that sort of gap? We'll see.

But as a number of the 16 states, those different states within Germany, have been less affected by the crisis than others, some are more eager to reopen than others. Reopening restaurants and hotels is seen as a particular risk because it will heighten the number of people traveling across Germany and raising infection rates.

We've got to keep that in mind. That will certainly be an issue in Canada. You start reopening restaurants and the hotels, people start to move, they start to travel. And that becomes an infection risk. And finally on football, because we're all looking to try and understand what's going to happen on baseball and hockey

and basketball and football on this continent. The indication is the German Football League, the Bundesliga, is also likely to get the green light to resume. So-called ghost games without spectators could start again as early as 15 or 21 of May. As long as a two-week quarantine period is put in place for the players in the form of a type of training camp. It would be the first big European football league to resume after the pandemic. However, it's not without risk. Ten positive cases were revealed just this week by the German football league

out of more than 1,700 tests across the top two divisions. So there's your sense of the situation in Germany. I don't know whether you can hear that in the background, but that's my dog. Nova Scotia duck tolling retriever. 12 years old, but still got a bark. She clearly wants to be part of the podcast. And if you hear her, then she has become one.

All right. Final, well, almost the final point for this day. Contact tracing. Have you heard about it? It's probably worthy of a whole show because there are real issues surrounding contact tracing. And you've heard perhaps that Google and Apple have teamed together to try and come up with a contact tracing app.

Well, there are a couple of test cases going on. I think they've tested it in, is it Korea? I think Korea has done some testing. Hong Kong, Singapore, Germany. But one of the biggest test areas started today on the Isle of Wight. I don't know how well you know your map of Great Britain and the UK, but the Isle of Wight is an island just off the southern coast of England, not far from Portsmouth.

About 150,000 people live there. And the British government has started a contact tracing kind of test case on the Isle of Wight where everyone who has a smartphone is asked to download an app on contact tracing. And basically the way it'll work is it automatically, once you've downloaded the app and you've got your Bluetooth on and other people have done the same thing, it will keep track of every other phone, in other words, every other person you're in contact with

that you either talk to, bump into, see on the street, whatever. And if the situation becomes where you test positive and you're recorded as having done so by the National Health Service in Britain, they will go to your contact data and inform everybody who it shows you have had some contact with that they need to be tested. That's one of the ways the experts feel we can immediately recognize the risks and how this is spread. Now, the question becomes, are you okay with that?

Are you okay with somebody having all that data on you, whether it's the app manufacturer, whether it's the government, whoever it may be who has access to that data. Are you okay with that? That's going to become a debate. It already is a debate, but it's going to become even more so of a debate over this next little while.

Final thought for today. next little while. Final thought for today. And it's a result of the editorial in the Globe and Mail yesterday, which I thought was something that's worthy of discussion. It also surrounds

this whole issue of the future and how are we going to change or are we going to change and how is our life going to change. So let me read a little bit of this. A couple of sentences. In Vancouver, in response to the need for physical distancing, an idea is growing to allow restaurants to expand their patios onto sidewalks and streets. In Oakland, California, more than 100 kilometers of roads have been turned over to pedestrians.

And in Toronto, barricades surround High Park. That's one of the great, beautiful parks inside Toronto. Flocking to the city's largest park during these days when cherry blossoms burst into bloom is a rite of spring for many in Toronto. This year, civic officials feared there would be too many visitors to allow for adequate physical distancing. It wasn't an unreasonable worry, but rather than limiting the number of visitors or fencing off some areas, the entire park was shuttered. Emergency fences and patrolling police arrived late last week. Through the pandemic, Toronto has been an outlier in its steadfast refusal to open up more space for people to safely spend time outdoors. Physically distancing on young streets, narrow sidewalks is impossible.

Yet the city refuses to take away space from cars, even when we're not using cars, certainly like we were two months ago, refuses to take away space from cars and hand it over even temporarily to pedestrians. Barricading High Park is emblematic of this way of thinking. That has to change, and fast, says the Globe. We've seen it changing in other places in our country. Remember, we had a letter just on the weekend, in the weekend special,

talking about Victoria. It's James Bay, where they closed down a chunk of the road, giving it off to pedestrians. Some have suggested in Toronto, like when you close down, say, Yonge Street, open it up. University Avenue, open it up. You've got to understand that cars aren't being used like they were. And people want to get outside. They want to walk. And they're, for the most part, obeying the guidelines and the rules about distancing. Some are ignoring them. Some are being a problem.

Some are being yahoos, as Doug Ford, the Premier of Ontario, has suggested. But for the most part, overwhelmingly, people are going along with the rules. So, whether it's temporary or whether it's long-term, looking at new ways, it's an important discussion and good for the globe week or so. And here I invite you to put on your thinking caps and, again, don't be shy about sending in some ideas. I'm looking for big ideas, like big ideas, not closing down a street, but big ideas.

How we can take advantage of this situation as we move forward as a country, as a province, as a city. And one of the ways is in big projects. We have one we're going to talk about in the next week that I got sent in to me. It's actually been around for a while, but it's being refined to be put forward now. You know, governments are looking for big projects, big ideas, and they're going to need them to employ people when this really starts to cool

down. Big ideas which make a difference to the country as a whole or to your part of the country. I've got one we're going to talk about and use it as an example probably next week. I got a wonderful email from Ralph Goodale, former Deputy Prime Minister, Cabinet Minister from Saskatchewan. I've known Ralph for a long time from when I lived in Saskatchewan in the early 1970s when he was just a young guy, as was I, and he ran for political office.

Ralph's got an idea, and we'll talk about it. But other parts of the country that have big ideas, something new, something different, something that hasn't been tried before, this is an opportunity to come up with the big project. What could it be? I have some ideas. I want to hear your ideas first.

So if you've got them, think about them. Construct them in some form. Send them in. And we'll talk about them. Okay? The Mansbridge Podcast at gmail.com. The Mansbridge Podcast at gmail.com. Thanks for listening on this day.

I'm Peter Mansbridge. This has been The Bridge Daily. And you know what? We will be back in 24 hours. Thank you.