The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - "The Sounds of Silence"

Episode Date: November 29, 2019

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And hello there, I'm Peter Mansbridge. This is the bridge for this first weekend in December. Wow, December already. And when you think of it, you know, we started the bridge in late August, just before the election campaign started. And then during the campaign, we ran it every night. Since, because many of you said you wanted it, we've been doing it weekly ever since. And we're giving it to you on a late Friday night, so you have an opportunity during the weekend to sit back and listen to something from me. Now, that's something I call the last few weeks ramblings, which I thought was fair. But some of you didn't like that. You said, it doesn't sound right.

Ramblings? Just do your thing. Just say what you want. Don't call it ramblings. So I'm going to try not't call it ramblings. So I'm going to try not to call it ramblings. I'll just call it my thing. And we'll see what we can come up with. So this week, I want to start off by asking you to listen to something. And I want you to listen very closely.

Here we go. You like that? What did you think of that? I mean, really? You didn't? You weren't think of that? I mean, really? You didn't? You weren't sure what that was? Okay, I'll do it one more time. Listen to this.

All right, so you must have figured it out by now. You know what that is? You know what that was? What you listened to? That was the sound of prominent conservatives in Canada speaking up for Mr. Scheer. Recognize any of those voices? If you were the conservative leader, would you be saying, hey, listen to all those people who are standing up,

prominent conservatives we're talking about here, prominent conservatives who are standing up for me to continue as leader. It's painful what's going on. You know, when you look back at the election, it wasn't that long ago, right? October 21st. So a little more than a month. People have had time to think about those results. Make some decisions.

You know, the Liberals, minority government, you know what they say, 157 seats, that's a strong minority. Well, no, it isn't. You know, a minority is a minority is a minority it's like saying a weak majority there's no such thing a majority is a majority is a majority

and a minority is just that it's a minority government could fall at any time depending on what the other parties choose to do but the liberals at 157 seats could fall at any time, depending on what the other parties choose to do. But the liberals at 157 seats, they lost 20 seats. The NDP, the third party of the three traditional national parties, they lost 15 seats.

They're sitting at 24. Of the traditional national parties, there was only one that won seats, the Conservatives. They won 26 more seats than they had the last time around. So they're sitting at 121. Now, if you just went by the numbers, you'd say, well, boy, the leader of that party, which also had more votes total than any other party, must be sitting pretty. He's not a good situation. In spite of those numbers, the drumbeat gets louder. It started on the night of the election. You could feel the knives starting to go in on the night of the election. And it hasn't really stopped ever since. It's kind of been a daily drumbeat.

So for the forces of sheer, not a good position to be in. And who is going to stand up for the leader? At the moment, it seems no one. So let's try to put this in its historical context. Because, you know, other party leaders have been in trouble once an election is held and they didn't deliver the kind of outcome that their membership wanted. And it's led to discomfort and often being tossed from the position.

But what is the best comparison to this one? Well, you've heard me mention it before. I'll mention it again, but I'll do it in a little more detail because it's interesting to see how it unfolded. And that, of course, was the Joe Clark situation. Joe Clark wins the leadership in 1976 of the Progressive Conservative Party. In the 1979 election, he defeats Pierre Trudeau. Still, up to this day, the only person in politics

who's ever defeated a Trudeau is Joe Clark. So he does that in 1979, May of 79. It takes him forever to meet Parliament. I think it was like October of that year before he met Parliament. Longest any government had had to wait. Well, they didn't have to wait. He could have called it earlier, but he calls Parliament in October. The government was trying to decide what to do about a bad deficit situation that had been handed to them by the previous government and an economic situation that didn't look good.

So they had a very tough budget introduced by the then finance minister, John Crosby, in December. And it included, among other things, an 18 cent a gallon tax on gasoline. And that's probably the only thing most people remember from that budget. But they took a gamble.

They believed they had a strong minority, and they were going to govern as if they had a majority. Big mistake. They thought the opposition, the main opposition party, the liberals, were in disarray because their leader, Pierre Trudeau, had announced he was resigning, And they should call a leadership convention. And people were already, you know, positioning themselves for that. There'd been much talk around Donald McDonald, the former finance minister for the Liberals, but he decided that he did not want to run. John Turner, the prince in waiting.

What was he going to do? And other contenders. Anyway, there was a lot going on inside the Liberal Party. So the Conservatives thought, hey, we can take a chance here. We'll ram this budget through, get our economic house in order. Well, the wily old fox, Alan McKechn, who was the liberals' house leader, decided, we're going to bring this government down.

And they set up an array of forces, including their own. They knew there were a couple of conservatives who were away on international assignments. Another one was in hospital. The Social Credit Party, which had, I think, five or six seats, could have propped up the government. They made a condition. They said the only way we'll support that government is if they kill the 18-cent gasoline tax.

Well, Crosby wouldn't do it, and neither would Clark. And so on the fateful night, December 13, 1979, we're coming up on the, what, 40th anniversary of that night in another couple of weeks. On that night, late at night, the vote was around 10.30 in the evening, Ottawa time. I can remember, I was a reporter on Parliament night, late at night, the vote was around 10.30 in the evening, Ottawa time. I can remember, I was a reporter on Parliament Hill, and along with other members of my bureau, we pleaded with the big pooh-baws in Toronto,

you've got to go on live with this, the government's going to fall, it's a historic night. They said, no, no, no, it'll never happen. Never happen. We said, it's going to happen. I don't think they got on on time, but they got on very soon after the vote was tabulated and bingo. The government was defeated. And we were into an election campaign

just months after the last one. These things can happen. And they did. And the election campaign was a disaster for Joe Clark and the Conservatives. And they lost power. After just getting it, they lost it. And guess who was back?

Pierre Trudeau. Okay, I'll run again. Majority government. And that night, it was February of 1980, it was the election night, when Trudeau walked into the ballroom of the Shadow Laurier for liberals who were celebrating their win and announced what they were going to do,

started his speech with, Welcome to the 1980s. Well, starting that very night, the knives were out for Joe Clark. There'd always been questions about his leadership from within, but now those who wanted to bring him down had reasons to bring him down. He'd blown government. He'd had this great opportunity, and he'd lost it.

In some ways, that's what some conservatives are saying now about Mr. Scheer, that he blew his opportunity. You'll never get a better chance. And so the nibbling away at Joe Clark's leadership started right away. But his was a two-step process. His party met in convention in January of 81.

And they voted like the vote was about whether or not they should have a leadership convention. It was two-thirds in favor of Joe Clark and only one-third saying we've got to have a leadership convention. So it didn't happen. And he tried very hard, Clark, in the couple of years that followed to try and draw in his party, draw in dissidents, bring new members into the party, to beef up that number for what he knew would eventually be another vote

on whether or not there should be a leadership convention. Well, that vote happened in January of 1983, and the numbers were almost identical to the 1981 numbers. Two-thirds in favor of Clark's continued leadership, one-third against. And he decided that night, and I think he was right, because it was a brutal time for him. There was constantly stories about those who were trying to bring him down.

He decided, okay, we'll have a convention, and I'm going to run. And we'll put this issue to rest one last time. Big mistake. Big mistake. He went into the situation, that leadership race, in some ways, like what we're witnessing now.

Nobody of any prominence within the party was standing up for Joe Clark. There were a few, but there weren't many. You didn't hear the premiers talking about it, the conservative premiers, and there were a lot of them in that day. In fact, what you did hear was a lot of talk about the two major premiers

on the stage, Peter Lougheed in Alberta, Bill Davis in Ontario, that they may run themselves for the national leadership. Neither one chose to in the end, but there was talk about it. And a lot of Clark's own cabinet ministers from that short-term in office ran against him. John Crosby, Michael Wilson, David Crombie. They all ran against him. And, of course, Brian Mulroney ran against him.

And you got into the actual convention in July, and those were the old conventions where there was lots of movement on the floor and there were delegates to the convention that were voted riding by riding as well as ex officio delegates, you know, official members of the party, provincial MPPs, all that kind of stuff.

So you go four ballots where there's movement. After, you know, somebody drops off, or at least one person drops off with each ballot. And they can move and say, I'm going to go support so-and-so. So what happened on this day in June of 1983? Not a single person moved to Joe Clark. Not one. You know, if I remember correctly,

the bottom two candidates are kind of nameless. They endorsed John Crosby. Peter Pocklington endorsed Brian Mulroney. David Crombie endorsed John Crosby. Michael Wilson endorsed Brian Mulroney. David Crombie endorsed John Crosby. Michael Wilson endorsed Brian Mulroney. John Crosby chose not to endorse anybody. So that left on the fourth and final ballot Joe Clark, who'd led on the first, second, and third ballots,

and Brian Mulroney. Winner take all. Final ballot. Mulroney wins 55-45, roughly, in percentage terms. And that was it. Joe Clark's leadership was over. He had a distinguished career when the Conservatives won as Foreign Affairs Minister.

And then, after a long period sort of out of politics, he got back in in the late 1990s. Got back in as leader of the Conservative Party. But it was a party that was in a shambles then. Reform was dominating the standings with the sort of right-of-center conservative vote. The progressive side stayed with Clark,

but they didn't do well, finishing fourth or fifth, I think, in the election where he ran as leader. He eventually stepped down for a final time in 2002. Joe Clark steps down as leader of the then-progressive Conservative Party. Now here's your trivia question. Okay? Here it's coming at you.

So you tell me the answer to this question. Who took over from Joe Clark in 2002 as the PC leader? Don't look it up. Who was it? I'm waiting. I'm waiting. Peter McKay. Peter McKay took over from Joe Clark in 2002

as leader of the Progressive Conservative Party, which eventually amalgamated with the Canadian Alliance under Stephen Harper, and they had Stephen Harper become leader. But interesting, eh? Peter McKay takes over from Joe Clark in 2002, and who's lined up, maybe ready to take over from Andrew Scheer if something happens here? Peter McKay takes over from Joe Clark in 2002, and who's lined up maybe ready to take over from Andrew Scheer if something happens here? Peter McKay.

Wouldn't that be the full circle? Anyway, so there you have it. My thoughts on this situation within the Conservative Party of Canada, Andrew Scheer's leadership. He's determined that he's going to stay on as leader, but many of those within his party seem just as determined to figure out a way to bring him down, and to bring him down now, even before they meet in April, where

there would be a vote scheduled. So we'll see what happens. And we'll see whether anyone stands up for Andrew Scheer. Yeah, good start with the premiers, right? There are six conservative premiers in Canada. And oddly enough, somewhat similar to those early 80s days, the talk about those six isn't about who's standing up for Andrew Scheer, it's who might run if there's an opening on the national stage. You know, could Jason Kenney run? There's no doubt he's thought of being national leader at different times over these last few years. Doug Ford has supposedly thought about it. Wouldn't that be something? The Peter Lawheed and Bill Davis of their day.

Of their day. I'm not saying Jason Kenney's a Peter Lawheed or Doug Ford's a Bill Davis. I'm not saying that. Other than they just happen to occupy the same positions. Anyway, something to think about. A story that we will keep watching. Because it's not going away.

It is not going away. And neither is the mailbag. We have our Letter of the Week coming up right after this. All right. A little trouble with the volume there. We've got to figure it out. Anyway, quickly, as I said last week, we're going to sort of do one letter of the week,

one that sort of strikes me, because for the most part, you're not sending questions in anymore to themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. But you're sending great letters about things, and I've got a great one to read today. But first of all, very quickly, Denise Kaczynski asked a question, which I think we'll probably get back to in a later edition of The Bridge, but it's worth a quick answer. Here's her question.

I'd be really interested in your thoughts on the impact of losing local media presence in Canadian communities outside the bigger centres like Toronto. What do you think the ramifications are for these communities? That's from Denise Kaczynski, and I didn't see where Denise was writing from. Listen, as some of you know, I live in Stratford, is where our main home is.

We also spend a lot of time in Toronto. But Stratford has run into this very problem that Denise points out. We have, you know, we've had a small newspaper that did extremely well over serving the community for many, many years, but because of this whole issue about small-town papers and the corporate ownerships cutting back, Stratford's not getting served like it used to. And that has ramifications, not only on the state of journalism,

but on the state of community affairs. You know, I talked to the mayor, Dan Matheson, in Stratford about this a few months ago, and he said, you know, ever since the paper cut back and isn't covering City Hall like it used to, rarely is there anyone there. I've seen interest within the city about community affairs drop as well. That's not good.

You know, it's great if you're an administration that wants to breeze things through without any debate within the community. But that's not this guy. That's not Matheson. And it's not for many mayors across the country. They encourage debate. They want debate. They want to reflect their community in the decisions they make.

So ramifications, absolutely. There certainly are. But Denise, as I said, I think it's worthy of more of a discussion than just that. And let me think about that and maybe bring in a guest or two to talk about that. So here's your letter of the week. I breezed through this. I like this one. No questions here, just something kind of interesting.

Hello, Peter. Jamie Mack here. I'm originally from St. John's, Newfoundland. Through all the jigs and the reels, I find myself here performing at the Stratford Festival. You and I have crossed paths a few times in the festival theater audience, the Porter Airport Lounge, Market Square, when you introduced your Disney character, Peter Moosebridge.

Those were the days. Academy Award winner. And most notably during Ron and Tara's hometown hockey a few years ago, as I'm sure you remember yourself, and Cynthia joined them for the broadcast. That's right, we did. The fun part of the story of that night from my side, which you won't know, is this. I was sitting at home by myself that night feeling quite down after the chaos of a Stratford season and during the ever-looming post-show low. So I get a phone call telling me, Jamie, they're talking about you on TV right now. Apparently Ron, Ron McLean, had heard the story about me at the local gift shop.

How, in that year's Macbeth production, both the lead and his understudy, through injury and sickness, had to step away from the show, giving me, the third stringer, a chance to go on as the Scottish king. Because I learned the part in less than 72 hours, I subsequently realized why the story caught Ron's attention. He himself has an incredible memory. He paralleled my story with a third string goalie who was going on for the Leafs that night. I was always impressed with the universal serendipity of that and also with his ability to find the connections between the local events and the game. Naturally, when the call came, I jumped up out of my morose and ran in my moccasins

to the market square. Through the slush, I could hear my name spoken over the loudspeaker. Then Cynthia told a story about one of her first years at Stratford falling off the stage, perhaps only humorous in hindsight. Only humorous in hindsight is right. It wasn't funny the night off, apparently. But it was true. There's a hilarious few details to this story, I'll admit for now, but suffice to say, Tara eventually saw me waving like a madman

outside the glass window and invited me in to chat with Ron. Great letter, Jamie Mack. Great memories. So, keep those letters coming. TheMansbridgePodcast at gmail.com. You can write about anything you want, and of course you can write in questions as well, so don't be shy.

And with that, we'll sign off for another week of The Bridge as we begin the march through December. It's been great talking with you and thanks so much for listening. Thank you.