The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - The W.H.O. Has Lost Credibility At The Time It Was Needed Most.

Episode Date: June 9, 2020

The WHO needs help. It needs reform. And that hurts me to have to admit.Plus, when do infectious disease control experts think we will once again be able to do what we used to take for granted. This is a pretty interesting study.

Hello there, Peter Mansbridge here with yet another edition, another episode of the Bridge Daily. Here we are in week 13. It's a Tuesday. And I got to tell you, I am losing patience with the WHO. You know, I've gone out of my way through these 13 weeks to defend the WHO in the difficult position they're in. In trying to manage this COVID-19 crisis. Have they made mistakes? Absolutely, they've made mistakes, and they're the first to kind of admit it. But then other times they make kind of boneheaded moves that make you wonder about everything. You know, there's a debate around the WHO and who should pay for it.

You know, the Americans through the president, Donald Trump, have said they're not going to spend any more money with the WHO. They're mad for different reasons. But there are some legitimate questions being asked to the WHO from countries around the world. And doing things like what they've done in the last 24 hours, does not help their situation. On this podcast yesterday, we talked about their announcement yesterday

that basically suggested that if you're asymptomatic, it's rare that you would pass on the disease, the virus. Well, today they were kind of backtracking on that because there was a lot of kerfuffle and a lot of other researchers and scientists around the world said, hey, you're nuts. That doesn't make sense. We don't have the evidence to support that yet. And today the WHO said, you know, we're going to kind of walk that back a little bit. This just puts their whole credibility even more into question.

And I got to tell you, you know, that I'm losing patients. I've lost patients with the WHO. I have not lost patients with a lot of other medical authorities, including the ones in this country. I have a lot of confidence in them at both the federal and provincial levels. And I've talked about some of them in the past. But on the WHO, this hurts also on a personal basis. I mean, my dad was in there at the WHO in the early 1970s.

He was in the Canadian Health Department at a senior level, assistant deputy minister, and he was sent over to the WHO in the early 70s when they were still kind of getting organized and to help on that front. And he was very proud of his time. He was there in Geneva, I think for a year, a little more than a year.

He liked the people he worked with. He was proud of the operation. He thought it was good and solid. If he was alive today, he would not be a happy person, given the way things have unfolded in the last while. So that's unfortunate, without question. And one hopes that we're going to see some indication from the WHO that it is going to move into a major area of reform

and that it's going to try to explain itself on the way it's reacted over the last six months. Because clearly there have been issues and continue to be so. All right, that's my shtick on the WHO. Great piece in the New York Times that is giving us lots to think about. I don't know whether you've heard about it today. I haven't seen a lot of people pick it up, but I think it's a great story. The New York Times wanted to get a sense of what to expect in this year ahead on things that we all do and that we all commonly do. Everything from, you know, picking up the mail to get a sense of not what we, the average person, figures it will

take to get involved in doing those things again, but instead what they did, they went to 511 epidemiologists. Can't believe I got that word on the first try this time. They went to 511 epidemiologists. Can't believe I got that word on the first try this time. They went to 511 of them. These are like infectious disease experts, people who work in this field. They went to 511 of them in different parts of the U.S., North America, the world. And they wanted to know from each of them when they expected to start doing things that we used to take for granted.

So one assumes that these people know what they're talking about, right? These are the people that are having an impact on the way we're living right now. So surely, gosh, they must know what's going to happen on a number of these fronts. So I'm not going to read it all, but there's a lot of really good stuff in here and a lot of interesting stuff. And this may give you a sense too of when you're going to be able to do certain things in the next few weeks, few months, few years. That only three or four months ago, we didn't think twice about.

Now we don't even do them anymore. Okay, so let me get started on this. And the first is kind of the ones most likely to be impacted in the short term, right? So the question to them was, when do they, these infectious disease experts, when do they expect to do the following activities in their personal lives, assuming that the pandemic and the response to the pandemic continues to unfold in a way that they expect? All right?

So here's a simple one. Bring in the mail without precautions. You still wiping down the mail? You still wearing gloves when you pick up your mail? I go down to the community mailbox in our area. I wear gloves. I wear a mask. I open the little door, pick up the mail.

I bring it back. I wipe it down. I open the little door, pick up the mail, I bring it back. I wipe it down before I open it. I don't wipe down what's inside the letter, like inside the envelope. But I'm still wiping down everything else. So here's the question. Bring in the mail without precautions. 64% of these epidemiologists who were surveyed said this summer they would bring it in without precautions. 64%.

16% said it'll take another 3 to 12 months. 17% said it'll be a year before they do that. And 3%, 3 of those epidemiologists, 3% of them, so that's whatever, 15 or so, said they'll never again bring in the mail without precautions. Never, ever. Next question, see a doctor for a non-urgent appointment. Would you do that this summer?

They say, 60% of them say, yes, I would. Another 29% said they'll definitely do it within the next three to 12 months. So like an overwhelming number are cool with going to see their doctor for a non-urgent appointment. Vacation overnight within driving distance. That could be to a cottage. Could be to, you know, a city close by. Could be to a hotel.

56%. Close by? Could be to a hotel. 56% say this summer. They're cool to doing an overnight vacation. Okay, here's one we all need, and I know I need, even though I've only got, like, hair on the sides, but I've got a lot of hair on the sides. Get a haircut at a salon or barber shop what do you think the figure is there from our disease control people for this summer 41 only say they get a haircut at a salon or a barber shophop. 39% say in the next 3 to 12 months.

So in the next year then, rounding it all off, 80% say within the next year they'll be comfortable with going for a haircut. Okay, later in the next year, this section, attend a small dinner party. 32% say, okay, this summer. 46% say, it's more likely over the next year. Hike or picnic outdoors with friends. 31% say this summer.

Another 41% say over the next year. Send kids to school, camp, or daycare. This is a tough one. My gosh, I'm sure glad all my kids are grown up. My grandkids, not so much. High school, university, and grade school. The three of them, they all go to those. It's a tough call.

30% of epidemiologists say they would send this summer their kids to camp or daycare or school if it's called for the summer. 55%, another 55%, say over the next year. So 85% figure that over the next year, it's okay to send their kids to school, camp, or daycare. Work in a shared office. 27% say okay this summer. 54% say it's going to take longer into the next year. Send children on play dates.

Very cautious still, 23% this summer only. 47% over the next year. Ride a subway or a bus, 20% this summer. I can, you know, I can see that people are really gun-shy about getting on a bus or a subway. Visit elderly relative or friend in their home. Only 20% say they'd do that this summer. Travel by airplane. Only 20% say they'd do that this summer. Remember, this is a fairly big-sized survey of epidemiologists only.

511 of them. Eat at a dine-in restaurant, 16%. Not a rush to the restaurants for inside. Now there's going to be starting up this weekend in parts of Ontario, including in this area, patio service at restaurants. It's going to be really interesting to see how that works out. I won't be rushing down. I do takeout.

I've been doing takeout for whatever, six weeks now? Not every day. Once a week I do takeout. Always a little nervous about it, but I do it to support our restaurant workers. Exercise at a gym or fitness studio, 14%. That's the lowest number for later in the next year. Nobody's in a rush to go to the fitness studios.

They may need it. I know I need it, but I'm doing it at home as best I can. Okay, in terms of what it's going to take, maybe a year or more. So in other words, on this thing, the answers, the highest numbers are in the year or more before they're comfortable with doing this. Attend a wedding or a funeral. 42% say it's going to take at least a year before they're willing to do that. Man, that's a, I was going to say that's a killer for the funeral business. Doesn't sound right. Certainly is for the wedding business, and it doesn't help the funeral business.

Hug or shake hands when greeting a friend. 42%. Say it'll be more than a year before they do that. Strangely enough, 14% say they're good this summer with hugging or shaking hands. Go out with somebody you don't know well. 42% said that'll be next year before that happens. Attend a church or other religious service. 43% say it'll be another year. Stop routinely wearing a face covering. 52% say it won't be until more than a year

before they stop routinely wearing a face covering. I encourage you to wear a face covering. Attend a sporting event, concert, or play. Whoa. 64% say it'll be more than a year before they do that. That's not good news, obviously, for the big professional sports teams who are already planning on opening up without fans, but they obviously want fans eventually.

But 64% say it's going to be more than a year before they would feel comfortable going to a sporting event. And once again, the they here are epidemiologists. These are people who are expert in the field. Okay? So I find a lot of those stats fascinating. I think there's a couple more. Let me see.

Go deeper into the survey and see what it says. Well, it's more on school, but it's pretty much the way we looked at it. On school, camp, and daycare, life and social distancing in those areas, they're not keen on it for this summer, 10% only. For now, summer, sorry, 20%. Fall, 40%. That's the biggest chunk, biggest number. 40% feel that they will be comfortable by the fall. On that sporting events thing, it's just like there's no way anybody's interested in doing that, either now, this summer, this fall, this winter. It won't be until next spring that some people are getting

kind of interested in doing big sporting events, going to big sporting events. But it's more than a year before the vast majority. We did the hugs and handshakes. I find that interesting that there actually are some people who feel very comfortable with doing it this year, like this summer, hugs and handshakes. You know, I don't even think about it anymore. I don't see anybody doing it.

Not even Trump. Airplanes. We didn't mention, well, we did mention that kind of. But most people say it's going to be more than a year before they're interested in going on an airplane. Most of these people, epidemiologists, almost 40% say it'll be a year before they get on a plane or feel comfortable going to get on a plane.

Certainly not now, certainly not this summer, certainly not this fall or this winter. They start to get interested next spring, and then after that, they're getting comfortable. So, these are the people who supposedly have the inside track on understanding all this. So, finally, the masks won again, because I'm, you know, I'm pushing this. I don't see, like, we have very low numbers in this particular region of Ontario, Perth, Huron County, stretching right out to Lake Huron.

The numbers are encouraging. They're not non-existent, but they're encouraging. And with things opening up, people are being very good on the social distancing front, but not so good on the masks front. Seems to me most people wear them in grocery stores, but just the sort of day-to-day operations around town, like today I took my second load of empty wine bottles to the beer store.

And once again, half the beer store workers were wearing masks, especially the ones inside. The ones working outside, half of them. And most of the customers were not, except me. During the time I went. That's not encouraging. It's not hard. And they are available all over the place.

Cloth ones and the kind of non-surgical masks. You can get them. There's lots of places you can get them. So that's not an excuse. The only excuse is this issue about, well, you know, I don't really want to. I don't think they make a difference. I don't look good in them.

We don't really need them. I've been getting confusing advice as to whether or not they're important. I don't have COVID, so why do I need to wear a mask to protect other people? Well, you know, A, you probably don't know whether you really have COVID or not unless you've just been tested in the last hour. And if there's a chance that'll protect you from droplets that might be in the air, why wouldn't you? Like really, why wouldn't you? Anyway, I've lectured on this before. I'll probably lecture on it again. But I think it's worth it. Anyway, so it's kind of after a series of long podcasts.

This one's going to be relatively short. I spent a lot of the day outside today. I encourage you to spend as much time as you can outside if the weather's good. It's a safe place to be, especially if you're not around others. And it's good after a winter of being kind of locked in. Get out there, fill your lungs with real air. Do that breathing through your nose stuff that we talked about last week. All good. It's all good.

All right, if you've got thoughts on any of this or all of this, drop me a line, themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com, themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com, themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. And the website, thepetermansbridge.com. You can find past podcasts there. And, of course, you can flip to the page on the Extraordinary Canadians book.

I took a look at the first draft of the cover today. It's pretty nice. Pretty nice. Simon & Schuster will be unveiling that at some point. Once again, it's not on sale until November. I know this is kind of a long run-up to that. But they're getting all their ducks in a row, and there's been some nice indication

from a number of major stores who want to give extraordinary Canadians a real place within their book operations. And that's encouraging. So with that, we're going to end the podcast for today the bridge daily i'm peter mansbridge it's been a treat as always to talk with you and as always we'll be back in 24 hours Thank you.