The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Three Leaders (Maybe) and a Funeral

Episode Date: January 17, 2020

A week which for me came down to a few hours in St John's Newfoundland and Labrador when the country said goodbye to the late, great John Crosby. Looking at the faces in the crowd was a story in itself. And two important letters in the Mailbag!

And hello there, I'm Peter Mansbridge. This is The Bridge for this week. And we've got a few things to talk about, and we will dip into the mailbag i know some of you were wondering why we didn't last week we kind of ran out of time so i'll have to manage the time a little better this week because i got a actually two little ones so i'm gonna i'm gonna mention this week but that'll be on the mailbag a little later um i don't know about you, but of the things that I watched this week, the one that had the most impact on me was actually watching live from St. John's, Newfoundland, Labrador on Thursday, Thursday afternoon, Ontario time,

the funeral of the late John Crosby, the Honourable John Crosby, former Cabinet Minister, and the governments of Joe Clark and Brian Mulroney. Now, I covered John Crosby. I was a reporter in Ottawa in the late 70s and early 80s. Covered him then, covered him both while he was in opposition and when he was in government. And then

when I moved to Toronto and started anchoring, I covered him and talked with him and interviewed him a number of times. And he was, we loved John Crosby because he was great, he was great TV. And he was always interesting on the topics of the day and loved a good argument. But watching the funeral on Thursday, I spent obviously a lot of time listening to the things that were said about him and the eulogies that were given, beautiful eulogies by his son, by former Prime Minister Mulroney. But I was watching the crowd, looking at the crowd, because in so many ways it was

not the end of an era, but you could see the passing of time happening. And in a way, the passing of a different brand of politics. You know, the thing we used to say back in the 70s and 80s was they really went at it, hammer and tong during question period, during debates in the 70s and 80s was they really went at it. Hammer and tong during question period, during debates in the House of Commons. The liberals versus the conservatives or the NDP.

Social credit at one time. There was a lot of it. A lot of back and forth. But you know when the bell went to end, well there is no bell that ends question period, but when question period ended, and they were in regular sessions at House of Commons, and MPs broke out of the chamber,

there was a different atmosphere. And it wasn't uncommon to see members from different parties going out together, either for a drink or for dinner or whatever. Now, you know, as I said, I watched a lot of good back and forths on the floor of the house. John Crosby was in many of them. Pierre Trudeau used to get into it with John Diefenbaker, of all people. They used to have great fights, and they'd usually end it by crossing the floor and shaking hands. Now, some people look upon that

as that wasn't good politics. It's okay if they can't stand each other and never talk to each other. They're there to debate the issues of the day, and if it gets tough, it gets tough. They don't have to be friends. I don't know, maybe they're right. I enjoyed the old way, when things weren't so polarized

and it allowed a certain kind of camaraderie after the debate over issues had taken place. Didn't mean their feelings were any less. They felt strongly on their beliefs. Anyway, when I was looking in that crowd who'd come to say goodbye to John Crosby, there was some of that, you know, some of those old political foes.

It was interesting to look at how they'd all come there and how Crosby had brought them all together. You know, Crosby had brought them all together. Crosby, who had run for the leadership of the party in 1984, so his foes at the time were Joe Clark and Brian Mulroney. Joe Clark must have had mixed feelings at different times for John Crosby. John Crosby was his finance minister in 1979, introduced the 18-cent-a-gallon fuel tax

that many people felt was the reason the budget was defeated and the reason they lost the election barely nine months after coming into office. Joe Clark and John Crosby, who in 1984, Clark was leading that leadership convention on the first ballot, the second ballot, the third ballot. On, I think, the second ballot, there was a movement afoot to say, Joe, you can't win. You don't have enough votes to win.

As each person drops off, they're going to Mulrooney, and you're going to lose to Mulrooney. The only way you can stop Mulrooney is to throw your support now behind John Crosby, who was running third, which would have been a startling thing to see. A person in first place moving to support the person in third place to stop the person in second place. Now, it didn't happen for any number of reasons.

I'm sure Joe Clark felt he could still win. He also felt strongly that the leader of the party should be fluently bilingual. John Crosby was not. Ryan Mulroney was. Anyway, they were never political foes to the point of arguing within their party structure, but they were on that convention. Bob Ray was there.

Bob Ray, who came to Ottawa in 1978, I believe, in a by-election. Won again in 79. Young guy, sitting in the back benches of the NDP. He put forward the motion of non-confidence in John Crosby's

budget in December of 1979, which the government would fall on. It was Bob Ray's motion. Bob Ray was sitting there at the funeral. Brian Tobin, one of the original members of the Rat Pack of the Liberal Party. Backbench MPs who, between 1984 and 88, caused all kinds of havoc against the Conservative government and against John Crosby, who was the Minister of Justice, I believe, in Mulroney's government. So there was a foe, but he was sitting there.

Sheila Copps, I don't think she was at the funeral. She was out of the country, but she had taken the time to say some wonderful things about John Crosby. We remember all the baby, Sheila baby comments and how the two of them were at each other in the 80s. Anyway, I could go on. But there was... There was a different era.

And over time... Usually over not very much time, they understood that they were also colleagues even when they disagreed. And there they were celebrating the life of a man who added a lot to this country. There's no question about that. Now it was also interesting looking around that room for another reason.

Well let me make one more point about, before I move on, about the eulogies. Chesley Crosby, John Crosby's son, made an incredible, beautiful, beautiful eulogy.

And so did Brian Mulroney. And I know there are strong feelings about Brian Mulroney across the country. But if there's one thing nobody disagrees on, it's that that man can give a eulogy. And he's constantly asked to do so. He reminds me in a way,

and my friend Rob Russo mentioned this to me the other day, reminds me in a way. And my friend Rob Russo mentioned this to me the other day. Reminds me in a way of Ted Kennedy, who was always put in the position of having to give the big eulogy, not just for his family members, but others as well. Celebrating a life usually ended in tragedy.

But Brian Mulroney celebrates lives. And he's done so in some very big funerals. Just to name a couple, Ronald Reagan, George Bush Sr. And this week, John Crosby. He knows how to celebrate a person's life. And he did so with class again. The other thing I was going to point out when you look around that room, you see how many either declared

or potential conservative leadership candidates that were in the room? I'm not taking anything away from them. And their, you know, number one reason for being there to celebrate John Crosby, but they were also there, I'm sure, to be noticed that they were there at one of the great statesmen of the party. So, I mean, the ones I saw,

Peter McKay, who's declared he's in. Aaron O'Toole, the Ontario MP with the Air Force background. I think he was in the Air Force in Winnipeg, actually. He was there. Jean Charest was there. Now, he hasn't declared yet, neither has O'Toole, but people think they'll be in. Charest is an interesting one.

What's he going to do? He certainly got the leadership chops. He was leader of the PC party for, what, three or four years? Then he became leader of the Liberal Party of Quebec. Now, people say, oh, he's a liberal. Well, you can make that argument, but let's not forget why he went to Quebec to be leader of the Liberal Party.

People begged him to do that. It was right after the Quebec referendum. The place was in turmoil, and both liberals and conservatives were behind that move. Now he went and he stayed. He eventually won

the premiership of Quebec, and I think he won three elections. So the issue about him for a lot of conservatives is, well, is he really a liberal or is he a conservative? Is he yesterday's man? He's only 61. He's like a decade younger than I am.

He's not old. But his name is tied to some things that seem to have happened a long time ago. Beach Lake. GST. Free trade. Charlottetown referendum. Anyway, he's there.

Who wasn't there? Ronna Ambrose wasn't there. But if you remember, I've mentioned a number of times in this podcast that at the end I don't think she'll run but she certainly would be most likely the favorite if she decides she does run I guess she's going to say something at some point in the next little while

Pierre Palliev I don't think was there at the Crosby funeral, but his name is constantly in play and in motion, with people wondering about how he would do. He's almost certainly going to run. It's just a matter of when he announces that he's in. You may remember him from the past. He is very aggressive in the House of Commons. Really knows how to go after those of other parties.

We'll see if he's toned down if he runs for the leadership. Whether he goes after his fellow leadership candidates if he's in. So, it was interesting. Looking around, you're seeing the faces of the past, some of the dynamics of the past, and you see the potential players for the future. And in the middle of all that, Justin Trudeau, who may well have just been through, so far,

the best week or two of his prime ministership, of his whole time in Ottawa. Most people seem to agree from different political stripes that he's handled the whole situation around the shoot down of the plane in Tehran carrying so many Canadians who lost their lives. So it was quite something to watch. And, you know, it's sad that we had to lose John Crosby to see something like that.

But I think John Crosby, remembering him, he probably would have been pretty happy that people not only got to hear about him, but they got a view of their country through its political leadership in both the past and the potential for the future. One last thing on that leadership list. If Ronna Ambrose doesn't go in,

I can't believe the Conservative Party will allow there not to be a competition among at least some prominent Conservative women. So her decision is going to influence decisions of others. Alright, I promise that we'll get to a couple of letters, and we will. We won't dwell on them, but I think they're both interesting.

They're coming up at you, well, right after this. Okay, from the mailbag. And we're starting with Mary Claire Massacott. And Mary Claire is from Port Alberni, Port Alberni, B.C. Here's what she had to say. And I had a few letters on this topic, not surprisingly.

A lot of people have been interested in it. I'm a royal watcher and admire the Queen very much. My thinking is that this is the beginning of the end of the British monarchy as we know it under Queen Elizabeth. Prince Charles may very well make a good king, although he does not have the moral

authority of his mum. Okay. I'm curious about your thoughts. You know, when I read this letter, Mary Claire, I thought back to 1997, standing in front of Buckingham Palace on the week Diana died. She died on a Saturday night.

I got there on a Sunday night I think this was around Wednesday or Thursday the crowds had been building tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands flowers ten feet deep outside Kensington Palace where Diana had been living, and outside Buckingham Palace, and looking up on top of Buckingham Palace,

the Royal Standard. I wasn't flying because the Queen was up north, I think at Balmoral Castle. But the flag that was there, the Union Jack, was flying full, right to the top of the mast. It hadn't been lowered. The Queen had not asked for it to be lowered. And that became a scandal.

And it brought the issue of whether or not this was the end of the monarchy. Well, eventually, when the Queen moved down to Buckingham Palace and the royal standard, her Queen's standard, was lowered after much public criticism. The funeral happened. And soon after, they moved in some high-powered, very expensive PR people to advise the royal family on how to turn this situation around

in terms of the way the public was feeling about them. And it eventually worked. But it's all tied to one person. It's tied to the queen. She's not going to live forever. She's well into her 90s now. What happens when she goes?

What happens when everyone starts talking as they have been a little bit because of Harry and Meghan? What happens when they start talking about how much money all this is costing? Who should be paying for it? What do they really do anyway?

It'll start off a whole new round of this issue. And a whole new round about the UK. If Brexit happens, and it certainly seems that way, and if Scotland says, we're out of here, and if Northern Ireland says, we're out of here, and if Northern Ireland says we're out of here, well, you don't have a United Kingdom anymore. You don't even have a Union Jack anymore. You've got to take those flags out of the composite that is the Union Jack.

Things will start to shred around the edges. So, Mary Claire, I don't know what's going to happen. I do know that we've seen this movie before in terms of having this debate. But it may be more serious this time, and we may be just seeing the tip of the iceberg. Here's the other letter. It comes from Jessica Heron.

And I don't need to make much comment on this. It stands on its own. Jessica was listening to the podcast the other day when I was talking about members of the Canadian forces who were serving overseas and how we sometimes tend to forget them and every once in a while something will happen where we remember them, as we did last week

when it was realized by most of Canada, hadn't realized it before, that we actually had people in that base that was fired upon by the Iranian missiles last week. Anyway, Jessica writes, Both of my parents are Canadian Forces vets and are truly the two greatest people I have ever met. I may be a little biased, she says.

My dad retired as a chief warrant officer after serving over 30 years and was well known for his dedication and fairness to those who worked for him. He served a few deployments in his career in Honduras, when my sister and I were just small kids, and more recently in Kuwait. That year I vividly remember spending Christmas Day at my mom's house with the laptop set up so that my dad could participate via Skype from across the globe. I love that story. And I think the image is pretty clear.

And the realization should be clear on the rest of us as Canadians about how some families have to celebrate Christmas when their loved ones serving in the armed forces are on the other side of the world. And in some cases, not just the armed forces. Members of the RCMP who serve overseas, bureaucrats, you name it. But those in the armed forces, I think it's worth remembering that little story, keeping that little image in your mind.

The next day, you're with your family, and you're all celebrating together, whatever it may be, a birthday, a holiday, whatever. But some people to do that have to depend on the laptop and Skype or FaceTime or whatever it may be so they can have their family all together. Thanks for that, Jessica. Thanks for that reminder. All right, that is The Bridge for this week.

It's been good to talk with you. I look forward to talking to you again in seven days. I'm Peter Mansbridge for The Bridge. Thanks for listening.