The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - What Are We Missing?

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

Dr Janice Stein is with us again on our regular spin around the world to note the stories we are missing when our focus is consumed only by the major stories of the day.  On today's list, among others, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Poland, Israel and Haiti.   And then if you are a frequent flier, an "endbit" worth keeping in mind for your next flight.

And hello there, Peter Vansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. What are we missing? Janice Stein is here, and we'll be back with that right after this. And hello there, welcome to Monday, welcome to another new week, and welcome to another episode of What Are We Missing? with Janice Stein. Before I get to it, a couple of remarks about the weekend. You know, I arrived in Canada, my family arrived, I was like, I don't know, five or six years old. My family arrived. I was like, I don't know, five or six years old. My family arrived in 1954. Now, sure, I know what you're thinking. Peter, that was a long time ago. It was a

long time ago. You know what else happened in 1954? It was the last time a Canadian won the Canadian Open. That's how long ago that was. Well, Nick Taylor changed everything yesterday with a spectacular win at the Canadian Open in Toronto. And, you know, has updated the history books. We've waited a long time to see this. We've been close a couple of times. Mike Weir was close about 15 years ago.

Went to, I think, three playoff holes against Vijay Singh and then unfortunately lost out on that. But not yesterday. Nick Taylor went to extra holes but then sank an

incredible, unbelievable 70, 71, 72-foot putt for an eagle on the fourth extra playoff hole and grabbed the trophy. And so the Canadian Open is back in Canadian hands for the first time since 1954. The other memory I'll take away from this weekend was, it actually happened, I think, last week sometime, but it went viral by the weekend.

And those were the images and the sound of the South African firefighters arriving in Edmonton to begin their volunteer work on helping fight the Canadian forest fires in northern Alberta. And they did their thing in the airport. When they arrived, they sang and danced. And it was a showstopper. And it's gone viral. As as i said it's been seen around the world and it shows that you know at times like this people unite from different parts of

the world canada does this canada's done this a lot in other countries that are suffering from you know some kind of natural disaster could be uh could be a fire, it could be a mudslide, it could be an earthquake, it could be a tsunami. Canadians respond. And here the South Africans responded, and they responded in their special way. Before they went to fight the fires, they did their dancing. And it's pretty impressive. If you haven't seen it yet, you yet, just Google South African firefighters in Alberta,

and you'll see it. It's pretty good. All right, what are we missing? We started this in, I think, January. Janice and I, we've known each other for, I don't know, 35, 40 years, and she's been a terrific resource for me in understanding various world events. She is, if you didn't know already, the Professor of Conflict Management

in the Department of Political Science and the founding director of the Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy at the University of Toronto. She's a fellow of the Royal director of the Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy at the University of Toronto. She's a fellow of the Royal Society of Canada, a member of the Order of Canada, a member of the Order of Ontario. She was the Massey Lecturer in 2001, a Trudeau Fellow. She was awarded the Molson Prize by the Canada Council for an outstanding contribution by social scientists to public debate and has received honorary doctorates of laws from universities in Canada and abroad.

She's also an honorary foreign member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and a senior fellow of the Kissinger Center at Johns Hopkins University. So, let's face it, she's got the credentials. And she's never shy about praising or criticizing current members of government, both at home and abroad, when she feels it's warranted. And that's good to see.

She's her own person, and she has her own views and sticks with them based on the research that she does. All right, enough of talking about Dr. Stein. Let's bring Dr. Stein into the conversation. As we begin, we do this, I guess, I don't know, every five or six weeks. And the idea is, what are parts of the world that aren't getting the attention perhaps they deserve? Or parts of the world that are getting attention but not the attention we think should be the focus? So there's a combination of things.

And we do kind of like a quick tour around the world, touching on as many countries as we can. I think today there's like eight or nine, maybe 10 countries that we hope to get to. So let's bring in Dr. Stein and this month's episode of What Are We Missing? So Janice, I want to start with something that will probably surprise a few people because I want to start with the United States.

It's not like we don't talk about the U.S. enough, and it's not like we don't talk about Trump enough. But I've got to ask, you're thinking on this particular issue here. The decision to indict president former president trump um how does that gonna play with the with the rest of the world what what does this say to the rest of the world about the u.s no peter i think if you we start in europe um and people are scratching their heads right and this is the place where it should play best, because this one says, he's not above the law, that's the core of democracy, nobody's above the

law. And it is, in some sense, the core of democracy. And they did it, by the way, in France, to after President Sarkozy. So this is not unheard of, although it is in the United States. But what you get met with is a kind of cynical pragmatism, I would call it. Why would you inflame the politics at this moment by doing something like this? And when you're hearing that from friends in Europe, you really say to yourself, boy, the United States and Europe are living in two wholly different worlds right now, despite the fact that we're all democracies and we have some things in common. You go to the Middle East, they're shaking their heads in amazement. They cannot believe that a former president would be indicted. Although, to take a break out for a moment, Israel sent three, four prime ministers to jail for offenses that you can argue are in one case comparable, others less. Asia, again, a real worry in countries like Japan, Korea,

who are dependent on the United States for security. How is this going to play into what they already get is an unpredictable election. So worries about stability and concern. The argument inside the United States that half the population is making that's all, that this is the right thing to do and is an ultimate guarantor of stability, I don't think really plays in the world, Peter. So how does it play out then over the next couple of years because this is going to go on for a while oh wow i mean that is that is the big question a lot's going to depend on timing um there's a judge in this case um already we know who has been skeptical of these kinds of claims before. We're going to politicize the, that's inevitable.

We're going to politicize this trial. Big rush to get this done in 24. I can imagine Trump's lawyers are going to do everything they can to slow this down because this is a criminal charge. If he's convicted, he goes to jail. So just imagine the spectacle of somebody who may well get the nomination. I don't think anyone would write that off who's convicted between the nomination and the election. And you have the nominee of one of the two big parties in jail. That's why the risks in this are just enormous.

I will say this in politic thing, lawyers are lawyers, but they provide great legal advice, but they don't always provide political advice that transcends the legal issues. And this may be one of these cases, Peter. The best thing about the lawyers on this case is being that the lawyers are having to get lawyers to defend themselves about the actions some of them have taken. Exactly, yeah. Okay, let's move from the U.S.

We're going to move to Saudi Arabia, but still the kind of specter of the U.S. hangs over it, whether it's Trump and his relations with the Saudis, whether it's golf and the Americans' relations with the Saudis on golf, or whether it's football and Europe's relations with the Saudis on golf, or whether it's football and Europe's relations with the Saudis on football. It all comes down to money and millions, if not billions, of dollars. Talk to me about Saudi Arabia. Yeah, this is a great story, of course, of golf in the Gulf, as we would say, and golfers around the world are exercised about this.

This is a hot topic of discussion. The background story here is two leagues of golfers. Saudi Arabia got in the game with billions of dollars to enrich the pot. And the golfers who were willing to play in that league were told they were rights violators and hypocrites. And lo and behold, the head of the PGH tour shows up in Riyadh. They make a deal. And the new chair of this combined tour, Peter, is Abu Mayan, who is the governor of the Saudi Wealth Fund. That tells you the whole story. We probably don't need to say more. But what it also tells you is Saudi Arabia is back in a big

way. People are turning the page on the human rights violations on the murder of Al-Khashoggi. Saudi Arabia is back in the Middle East in a big way. Tony Blinken was in Saudi Arabia this week, smiling. New page, cementing relations and talking about the role that Saudi Arabia will play in the future. Discussions about normalization of relations with Israel. And here's the price tag. A peaceful nuclear reactor for the Saudis from the United States. Let's not worry about proliferation.

Security guarantees. Security guarantees. Security guarantees. Obviously still worries about Iran. So Zelensky can't get those. But MBS may. Well, Saudi Arabia is back. Are they back because of the money are they back because they've got billions to support any any move they make including as it turns out to the trump family

right through uh yeah uh through uh jared kushner so this order of money really matters uh and it really matters because you know we are talking, as you say, Peter, there are hundreds of... The Saudi wealth fund has $500 billion in it, just to get a sense of scale here. It is huge. They're back because China is Saudi Arabia's biggest customer for oil. And as a result of that, has put its toes in the Middle East and repaired the relationship between Iran and Saudi Arabia. That got a lot of attention in Washington. So it's not only the money. And Saudi Arabia, and we're going to talk about this later, is one of these countries now, Peter, that is newly important because of the growing rivalries between China, the United States and Russia. And the big guys are giving the smaller states benefit. And Saudi Arabia is only one example of these. But MBS, Mohammed bin Salman, played his cards well.

He is investing around the world to diversify the Saudi economy. He knows the days of oil are limited. He's back. He sure is. It's a remarkable story when you consider where we were four or five years ago. But did you expect any different? Well, I thought the Khashoggi story would have an impact, at least on the relationship with MBS.

But it hasn't. No. on the relationship with MBS. But it hasn't. No, and the reason it hasn't, MBS, I mean, it's consolidated power. He's there. He's young. He is there for decades. All right. Not too far away, we have Turkey.

Erdogan wins another election, but he's got a mess on his hands oh boy and he's another one by the way let's let's let's put him in in in the class with uh mbs this is an agile player right and really an astonishing performance He has a huge mess on his hands. Inflation, 70% last year. 70. You know, we in Canada are worried about whether it's six and whether it's gone down at four and a half fast enough. 70%, which erodes wealth of the middle class that should naturally be his supporters. He's ruthless in his willingness to jail opponents of his regime,

to put the opposition in prison. But this one, he should have lost. And why should he have lost? There was an earthquake, which was massive. This was the most bumbling response by a government. They couldn't deliver services. So you have to ask yourself if you're a middle class or lower middle class voter in Turkey, my savings are gone. I can't afford to buy food with inflation at 70%. And when I need help, I can't get it from the government. That shows you how tough, resilient,

and how committed his base is to him, Peter. And I have to say, when I look at him, and people ask, how could the Trump base in the United States say loyal? Spend a little time looking at Turkey and that base. He's back in it again. He's negotiating with Russia. Renewed grain deal. Got excellent relationships with Ukraine.

Like MBS, he's playing the rivalries between the great powers, and everybody needs them. He's interesting in the sense that he's kind of like a couple of other significant middle powers, Brazil, India. India is probably, we're going to have to move India up into being more than a middle power, I mean, with that population and that economic clout. But the three of those countries are all facing significant economic challenges.

Yep, you're exactly right. And yet they're punching in a way, way above their economic weight in the kind of attention that they're getting. Modi, Erdogan, Lula from Brazil, and Mohammed bin Salman. These are the new players that are being courted by the United States, by China, and by Russia, all at the same time. And they're being courted for their influence in their part of the world? Is that the idea? For their influence in their, well, Turkey's clearly a player on the borders between Asia and Europe.

A member of NATO can block the expansion of NATO. Brazil, the biggest economy in all of South America, the largest population. Clearly, if you're interested in that part of the world at all, you're going to make your bet on Brazil. You have to, right? India, as you just said, Peter, the youngest country in the world, will be larger than China probably in the next 30 or 40 years with huge economic potential if the government can unlock it. So these are all critical. And yes, you know, probably now the surpassed Egypt,

the most important state in the Gulf. These are the players for the next 25 years in their regions. It's interesting because the world has really changed, hasn't it? Yeah, it really has. In a relatively short period of time, almost without us noticing it, suddenly we're looking at a very different world. That's right. And that's what great power rivalries really do.

They restructure the world. The rivalry between China and the United States gotten much worse over the last five years. And so that just shines the spotlight. And here's the positive, you might say, creates new opportunities for smaller states who have a lot more options than they did five years ago. Well, let's talk about a smaller state. I'm not sure what options they've got because it, too, seems to be a continuing story of, you know, basically horror. And when we watch what unfolds in Sudan, and it's not getting any better,

there had been some hopes that it might, the truce, but it's not working out that way. You know, you're talking about Sudan, Peter, and it is just, frankly, you know, it is a nightmare story. There were two generals here, one in command of the army in Sudan and the other in command of what we would call a militia, a paramilitary, supposed to merge his forces into the army when the fighting ended last time. Never did it. They're called the rapid support forces. So let's just take a minute to go back. The rapid support forces grew out of the Janjaweed, which committed those

genocidal atrocities in Darfur. Where were they over the last three or four weeks committing the same kinds of atrocities again under a different name in Darfur with the same kind of consequences. It's absolutely horrific to watch 350,000 refugees cross the border out of Darfur as they, frankly, are fleeing this kind of murderous violence. And the Sudanese army is arming civilians on the other side. And here's a story, again, about how impotent, frankly, the big powers can be. United States been working hard on a ceasefire, threatening sanctions. Peace talks where, by the way? In Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia, tells you again where the new geography is. Broke down. No prospect, Peter you again where the new geography is, broke down.

No prospect, Peter, to end the fighting. And the kind of things, you know, that Canadians were leaders in, responsibility to protect, a faint echo of where the world was when these genocidal strategies broke out in Darfur a last time. The world is really shrugging its shoulders. Yeah, you don't hear this being discussed very much in the question period in the House of Commons, do you?

No, no. They've got so many much more important things to talk about, apparently. Okay, listen, this is great. We're halfway through our list. We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll march on to a number of other key spots in the world. Back in a moment. And welcome back.

You're listening to the Monday episode of The Bridge. I'm Peter Mansbridge. Janice Stein is with us. And we're going through our list of, you know, what are we missing in terms of things that are happening in different parts of the world? And every time we do this, every, you know, five or six weeks, it's kind of mind-boggling, the stories we talk about, and you wonder, why haven't we been talking about these more often? Let's get started, Janice, with the first in our list for our second half of the program today. And it's a combined, it's a twofer. It's two countries, Poland and Israel. How are we connecting those two on an issue right now? Not the way we usually

might, Peter. And let's start with something that happened in Poland. The biggest demonstrations in the streets of Warsaw since Solidarity. So that is a long, long, since that was a trade union movement that was crucial in starting a wave of revolutionary activities throughout Eastern Europe. Now, why did Poles take to the streets? And boy, this is a hard one, you might think, to wave the flag over. The president appointed a special commission, so obscure to investigate Russian influence on Polish security, but it had one provision in the bill. You could arrest somebody, put them in jail if they were suspected of engaging in this kind of activity. Into the streets, poured the political opposition, and framed the discussion really as

about rights and limiting the power of the courts in the normal way to enforce procedure. And that's how this story joins up with Israel's. We have this unprecedented story in Israel. It really is. We are into almost six months of demonstrations, some weeks, 150,000, some weeks, depending on what's going on, half a million. Big street parties. They're like huge street parties every Saturday evening, also in the name of judicial reform. Now, if you think about this, you say to yourself, wow, people really care about an, but bubbling underneath is a deep struggle for the future of both of these countries. What are they going to be like? In Israel, it's all up for grabs.

It is a polarized society between secular and religious in Poland? Are we going to continue to deepen our engagement with Europe, follow the same kinds of standards that the European Union expects? Or are we going to look more like our neighbor Viktor Orban in Hungary, who's put all kinds of limits on the courts? And we should be watching Poland carefully because Poland has clearly become a major power in Europe. So perhaps the major power, you know, if not more so than Germany, very close to Germany. So important, Peter. And you're, you're absolutely right. It is,

it has led the NATO discussion on Ukraine. It is out front. It's partnering with the Baltic states. People looking at NATO saying NATO's moved east. NATO, the real fulcrum of power and energy in NATO is coming from Poland and the Baltic states. So look at the two faces of Poland on the one hand, right? Critical ally, couldn't have, in fact, the kind of alliance that NATO has been able to put together

under Biden on Ukraine. And at the same time, the bad boy of the European Union, because it's violating the norms on courts and on rights so schizophrenic country let me ask you a quick question on israel and taking a bit of a divergence here from uh from our focus today but you know we used to the west used to spend so much time reporting on israel you know i can remember in you know in my kind of heavy days as a correspondent and as an anchor, I'd end up in Israel a couple times a year. It could be because of intifada.

It could be because of an election campaign. It could be for any number of different reasons. All the Western news organizations had bureaus in jerusalem um the the story was a a major part of the west's kind of eyes on the world not so anymore now what are we missing as a result of that i mean some of that was because news organizations said, you know, checked in, you know, said we've got focus elsewhere. Money was a major factor. It costs a lot of money to run a bureau in Israel. But what are we missing or are we missing anything, about a country that is so polarized, fighting literally for its soul, between religious and nationalist parties that have come together for the first time against, and they're evenly split. That's really the issue. A secular, technologically sophisticated Israel that is one of the three or four technological hubs around the world that sees that if it doesn't make the fight now, it will probably lose because of changing demographics. Interesting that you should talk about the media today.

This week, rather, there was a long piece by Tom Friedman, the journalist who can't, you know, who goes back. Sure. Oh, and he had a piece and it was Riyadh Tel Aviv. And really interesting one in which he said those two countries are going, we just talked about Saudi Arabia, going in the opposite direction. In Saudi Arabia, women are gaining rights. In Israel, under some of this legislation that might well get through if the opposition lose, women will lose rights. Saudi Arabia is moving to modernize its education system to teach math, science, technology, and all its schools. Israel,

if this legislation passes, will move in the other direction because the orthodox school system, no math, no science. And these kids, in about 20 years, will constitute half the elementary school age kids in the country. Not to cover this story, and I'll tell you, Canadian media are not doing a great job of getting beneath the surface. Not to cover this story is to miss out, I think, on one of the key stories in which we look at countries and say, how do they see their future? And how do they resolve these bitter, bitter, bitter divides, this bitter polarization that is coming to be so much a part of the world. I'm glad you mentioned Tom Friedman because, I mean, he's been one of the defining writers of that part of the world for about the last 30 or 40 years.

You know, one of his first books, what was it called? Beirut to Jerusalem. Beirut, from Beirut to Jerusalem. From Beirut to Jerusalem. It's still, you know, you want to understand the Middle East? Start with that book. It's still today. You know, Peter, it's a really interesting piece.

It's in the Sunday Times in the opinion section for any listeners who might want to go check it out. Because it is this story. Who would expect? I mean, you can hear the astonishment in my voice, right? Who would expect Saudi Arabia to be on a modernization track and Israel to be locked in a struggle which could, in fact, change its trajectory? Okay. We'll never get through our list if I keep detouring here. So let's get back on the list.

Oh, a detour is a great thing. Yeah. here so let's get back on the list oh a detour is a great thing yeah uh next up is iran um which we you know we talked about worried about you know focused on many times in the last number of years uh and the issue still comes up to whether or not there can be a reinstatement of a nuclear agreement um the West and Iran. Where are we on that? So it is really interesting. I think there are whispers coming out of two capitals, one Washington, the other Riyadh.

And by the way, interestingly enough, not Jerusalem, where you would have thought this would be. They would be raising bloody murder. That, in fact, the United States and Iran are very close to reviving that nuclear deal. That deal was signed by the Obama administration. It did two things. It froze uranium enrichment and Iran exported its surplus uranium to Russia. Well, Donald Trump, in his wisdom, just walked away unilaterally from that deal. It wasn't that the Iranians violated. He just thought it was a bad deal, to quote him. And Iran now has enriched enough uranium to close to nuclear grade where it could easily manufacture

a bomb. It's weeks away. That doesn't mean we'd have a nuclear weapon. You need missiles or you need delivery vehicles for that, but it's a threshold nuclear power. So literally at this last minute, the deal is in fact close in which Iran would freeze the level of enrichment. That's all. Clearly would not export any enriched uranium to Russia in this world. And why aren't we hearing howls of outrage from Israel? Because there's a division there. The military in Israel believe this is in

everybody's interest. All you can get with a threshold nuclear power is a freeze. And a freeze ain't nothing in the world in which we're living. That is not the view of the prime minister of Israel, but he's beleaguered right now. He's got other things to talk about. And this is in Iran, which in its way, Peter, is back to, okay, brutal repression of women. Women take to the streets for months and months and months. Those demonstrations are quieter. China helped Iran repair its relationship with Saudi Arabia. Iran is building a drone factory in Russia so that Russia will have an autonomous capacity to manufacture drones. In return, it's allegedly getting very sophisticated equipment from the Russians that itself cannot build. This is a country that might

have been marginalized four years ago, and Donald Trump had fantasies of isolation. It's back. It's back in a big way. It's interesting you mentioned Netanyahu. You know, I've sat across from him a number of times uh in interview situations and if there's a four-letter word you want to use to get him going it's iran yeah you've seen that too um yeah and that he's remaining relatively quiet on this right now is uh is something to keep in uh keep in mind and notice um okay moving on um haiti and we've dealt with this a couple of times in the last little while and we keep saying this is an ugly story but surely we can turn the corner on this but no it keeps getting uglier and it's even uglier now some some story um peter as you're saying, two weeks ago, a community got together, armed some of the young men in the community.

They had given up on the police in Haiti, which I understand. Just a detour here for one second. We're supplying armored vehicles, reinforced vehicles to the Haitian police. That must be about the most naive thing, frankly, one could imagine. These police are just transferring

the vehicles to the gangs because they are, they have no power to resist and to stand up against these gangs. They're blackmail. Well, these young guys in a community got together, armed themselves, captured eight gang members and burned them alive. Burned them alive in front of everybody in that neighborhood

that was watching. I can't find words, really. Now, what happened afterwards is really interesting. The gang members cleared out of that community. So you have community enforced order right now. The police are not back in that community because Haitians rightly don't trust the police anymore. But this is the most extreme example that you can imagine of a community literally at its wits end lost all hope in any authority in Haiti, just taking justice into its own

hand and doing it in the most, it was on purpose that they did this, right? They wanted it to be as cruel and as violent as possible to send a message to the gangs. We're prepared to do it too. And we're still saying no to the requests from the Americans that we go in there and sort this thing out. And the Americans are saying, no, we're not the right ones to do it. We've been there too many times before.

They ate us, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera. So nothing's happening. I understand why we're saying no, Peter. I support the no, right? I do not believe that a Canadian police force, and you know how stretched the RCMP is, frankly, but that a Canadian police force would be welcomed by Haitians. They've had it. They've had it with UN intervention. It's got to come from communities, but not this way. You know, Canadians have an

incredible Haitian community in Montreal, very well connected in to Haitian. And so there's got to be investment of some kind. There's got to be a capacity to help communities, but we can't do it by helping communities burn gang members alive. You can imagine what the Canadian public would think about that if that's what we were doing, right? So we can't jump. Because it's so awful, the tendency is to jump in. We can't do that because we could make it worse. Okay. We don't have to go we could make it worse. Okay.

We don't have to go very far for our last country on the list because it's us. And, you know, it's been quite something to witness this week when you see, you know, American newspapers with, you know, blame Canada or it's all Canada's fault. And it's not just, you know, it's just not American pace. I'm over in Europe again right now and in the British Isles, actually. And papers around here are doing the same thing because it's starting to float this way. You know, it's impacted in Norway, the smoky skies.

What's your take on this? I mean, it's not like we haven't had forest fires before and that they're a traditional thing and they go back centuries. Yeah, thank you. This is different and the combination with climate change, et cetera, et cetera, and the debate surrounding it has made this whole issue much more powerful, much bigger than we've ever witnessed before.

You're absolutely right. I'm a fellow of the Kissinger Center in Washington, so I spend a certain amount of time. Oh, wow. All of a sudden, and you know better than anybody else, Peter, how hard it is to get anybody in the United States to pay attention to Canada. Everybody, everybody was paying attention to Canada. And I got comments like, you nice guys up there, you don't do stuff like this.

And somebody said, can we please have less Canada in the United States? And we all get the jokes. But boy, did this bring the story States. And we all get the jokes. But boy, did this bring the story home. You know, the air in Toronto was terrible, but it was nothing like that smoky, orange, almost post-apocalyptic scenes in New York and Washington last week. So what do we take from this? And I think there's a really sober story here. Now, if we did everything that we're supposed to do under the Paris Accords, and we're not, because as you know, our emissions are higher, despite everything we've done, not lower. But if we did everything,

the world would still keep getting hotter for the next 20 to 30 years. We have to think much harder about adaptation or what we saw just last week. It's just going to get worse and worse and worse. I think in ways that probably none of us can really imagine. What do we do in our forests when you have a dry spring? Are there any preventive measures? Do you, in fact, bomb rain from the air on the forest floors? And that's one of many many ideas we have to invest um in adaptation because we're already at a precipice here people die from the kind of air from the particular matter if you've got asthma if you're old um it's kill it kills you you know remember um people

laughed at him when he said it, and maybe they were right to laugh at him. I'm not sure now. But remember when Trump, in the early going of his first administration, said they got to get out there with rakes and rake the forest, you know, rake the forest floor of all the, you know. Dry, dried up branches and timber. Yeah.

And, you know, maybe it's a version of that. It is a version of that, Peter. We're going to have to do something because, look, we have we are one of the largest forested countries in the world. We didn't worry much because we're up north. It's not we're not we weren't supposed to get hot enough this fast enough and it's really dry enough. That's really what's the issue here. It's very dry and lightning strikes set off fires. Now, just for the record, we have a premier in Alberta who said it was arson.

So I did, I don't know if you asked yourself, I kind of did. Boy, that arsonist must have been busy because they were in Alberta and they must have traveled really quickly to Nova Scotia and after that they got to Quebec. We don't always have the most rational discussion about this in our country we laugh at others but well hopefully this week we'll have made some of those discussions more rational because it's pretty clear yeah that it's uh not only it's serious but it's getting more serious with each

passing month and year we got a we got a long summer ahead of us yet, Peter. We do. I mean, it's early. Yeah, it's very early. Okay. We're going to call this one a day and actually call it a season because this will be the last one before our summer break. So it's been a good one, Janice. We really appreciate your time as we always do.

And we hope you have a great summer. Same to you, Peter. And see you in the fall. You definitely will. Take care. Take care. Dr. Janice Stein from the Munk School of Global Affairs at the University of Toronto. And it's always great to have Janice with us and gives us lots to think about. And, you know, a number of various spots around the world. And today was no exception.

I look forward to seeing and talking with Janice again after the summer break, which comes up in just another week and a half. And then we'll be taking most of the summer off. There'll be a couple of special editions of Good Talk, and there will be a number of encore editions through the summer. Some of the biggest programs and the ones you seem to enjoy the most over the past year will be slotted for this summer. I got a couple of minutes left. It's NBIT time, NBIT alert, NBIT.

This is from the New York Times. I got a kick out of this because obviously, you know, to get here into British Isles, I took a flight. I didn't swim, didn't take a boat, didn't take a ship. And there's a piece in the New York Times last week that is a conversation with a 21-year veteran flight attendant about their 12 rules of etiquette for airline flying. I'm not going to read all 12. I'll read just the ones that struck

me as interesting. Overhead bins. Okay, you know, you get on a plane, you finally get to your seat, and you look up, and it's full already. Here's what she says about overhead bins. The bins are first-come, first-served in economy class. You don't own the spot directly above your seat, and it's not acceptable to take

out someone else's bag to make yours fit. Sliding bags to maximize space, that's fine, but save the complex puzzle solving for the flight attendant. And remember, small bags belong at your feet, keeping room for large bags in the overhead bins. Okay, you get on a plane and the people in front of you who are moving up the aisle are talking on the phone. Or, and they've got their speaker on, right? Or they're on FaceTime. And you can hear and see the other end of the conversation. Here's her advice on that.

Excuse me. We don't want to hear both sides of that conversation. Plus, boarding an airplane is not the time for your goodbyes. It's time for you to concentrate on finding your seat and showing your bags as fast as possible so the people behind you can do the same thing. While we're on the topic, no one wants to hear your movies, video games or TikTok, so bring headphones, even for children.

This one I did not know, but I'm glad to hear it. Have you ever been stuck in the middle seat on a flight? And you know, you're trying to find somewhere to put your arms, and either side of you is an armrest, right? And you go, geez, I wonder which one is mine. Guess what? They're both yours. The middle seat gets both armrests.

It's the consolation prize for being squished between two people with nowhere to lean. Case closed. Okay, so you might want to clip that and take it with you. Keep your socks on. If it's a long flight, by all means, relax, take off your shoes, but there's never a reason to take off your socks foot smell is inescapable also keep your feet to yourself it's not acceptable to rest your feet on the armrest of the person in front god i can't believe people would do that and i highly recommend putting your footwear back on to use the lavatory it. You see people walking up the aisle barefoot

or just in their socks? No. That floor is full of disease. And if you think the floor is full, wait till you get into the lav. Here's the last one I'm going to read. You don't have to switch seats if someone asks you. Have you ever been put in that uncomfortable situation? Someone comes up and says, oh, you know, this is my wife you're

sitting next to and we couldn't get our seat and, you know, I'm back there six rows back. I'm in the middle seat, but really it'd be so nice of you to give me your seat. So the flight attendant's advice, I'm going to be unpopular here no you do not have to switch with someone who asks you if you paid extra for your seat or even if it is just an inconvenience you can kindly say no if it's advantageous like trading a middle seat for a window seat or you're happy to help please go ahead and swap there you go. You know I love airline stories, so there's a few to keep in mind.

Okay, we're out of time. Been a great day. Another Monday launch. Tomorrow, Brian Stewart will be by. It's getting very interesting in Ukraine. Prime Minister was just there. The offensive has started on the part of the Ukrainians, but what is really happening? Brian will be by to tell us. Wednesday, Smoke, Mirrors, and the Truth with Bruce. Thursday, it's your turn. So if you've got thoughts on anything you've heard already, drop me a line, themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com, themansbridgepodcast

at gmail.com. Friday, of course of course good talk Chantelle a bear and Bruce Anderson the other thing on Thursday is the random ranter don't be shy listen to the random ranter he's never shy all right I'm Peter Mansbridge thanks so much for listening today we'll talk to you again in a mere 24 hours.