The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - What if they held an election and nobody ran?

Episode Date: October 7, 2021

A footnote to low election turnouts.  And then, when will Alberta recover from its COVID disaster?  Can Jason Kenney survive the pandemic?  No province has escaped the COVID challenge but Alberta has had a worse time than anywhere.   Today we try to answer the question: What the heck is happening to Alberta?Guiding us through the story from Calgary is a friend of The Bridge and fellow podcaster, the CBC's Kathleen Petty of "West of Centre". 

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Well, here we go. We've been off for a couple of days, and I've got to tell you, it's been an exciting couple of days because I've been launching a new book, Off the Record, launched on Tuesday. I've been doing all kinds of interviews in different parts of the country. It's funny, you know, book promotional tours are a big deal for book publishers, and they're extremely tiring for book authors. In fact, there's, you know, stages of the book business.

There's, you know, thinking of what book you want to write, then it's writing the book, and then there's editing the book, and then there's selling the book. And most authors will tell you that the hardest part of all those is the selling that the you know you're doing literally dozens of interviews if you're lucky if you're lucky and there's a good you know circuit of publicity around your book if you're lucky you get to do interviews to promote your book. But man, it's tiring. Especially when a lot of the interviews, the questions are the same, and yet you're trying to make the answers sound like it's the first time you've ever given them.

That can be a challenge. But the bottom line is it's fun. And it's especially fun when you're doing promotional visits that include the audience. So yesterday I actually had a speech, first non-virtual speech I've given in, well, in quite a while, a month or two. Done a lot of virtual speeches. But this one was down in Niagara-on-the-Lake. And it was great. Great group of people.

They wanted to hear about the book. And then there was a book signing. I signed all kinds of books there under real COVID rules in terms of, you know, everybody was masked for the signing and people were, you know, distant. It was, but nevertheless, you got a chance to hear from people who were excited about your book. But most of these, well, just about everything that I've done in the last couple of days, with that exception, have been virtual appearances. So I'm in Toronto this week and I, week, and I operate out of my little office in our little condominium in downtown Toronto,

and I do all these virtual interviews. Pop up on one network and then the next network, and do radio interviews, TV interviews, newspaper interviews, online interviews, podcasts. Done them all. And as I said, it's tiring. It can be exhausting. But it's, you know, as an author, you're extremely grateful because you're getting some publicity around your book.

The book, by the way, is called Off the Record. You can find it at any of your independent bookstores. I don't know, they have such a great, you know, Canadian publishers have such a great ability to market their books and target a day. So, you know, Tuesday, October 6th was launch day. And it appears magically in every bookstore in the country, every independent bookstore in the country, because I've had emails from across the country already from people who went to their local bookseller and got the book.

And, of course, you can buy it online. If you can't get out or you're feeling uncomfortable getting out, you can get it at Amazon. can't get out or you're feeling uncomfortable getting out you can get it at amazon you can get it at indigo indigo is a big promoter of off the record and we're extremely grateful for their help and if you go to costco costco is a is a big promoter of the book as well so it's out there so that's my plug for today off the record if you get a chance grab a copy you'll if you're wondering hey what's it about mansbridge you told us enough about how to buy it but what's it about it's it's the stories behind the stories all right it's not a you know there's been some publicity around a few things I've said this week in terms of

the CBC. That's not what the book's about. The book is about, you know, various things that happened to me during my 50 years as a journalist. And I call them the stories behind the stories because they're the kind of things you never talked about on the air because they weren't the story of the moment. But I found over the years telling friends about various things that the stories they wanted to hear were the stories behind the stories. You know, what was it really like to interview so-and-so, or what happened in the room when you talked to this person or that person? And those are the kind of things you may find interesting. I think you will.

Some of them are funny. Some of them are emotional. Some of them talk about the country. Some of them talk about journalism. It's all in there. All right. Enough with the plug. What about the tease?

If you held an election and nobody ran, we just spent a federal election campaign, and there were a lot of reminders spent a federal election campaign, and there were a lot of reminders from a lot of people, including the candidates and journalists and opinion leaders, about turnout. You know, you want to participate, you've got to vote. Once again, the turnout rate was low.

62%, I think, was the final number that I've seen tossed around. You know, six out of ten Canadians bothering to vote in a national election. That's not great. But it is kind of where we're settling in at in the high 50s was the low point. The high 60s was the high point so far this century. So sitting around 62 is kind of in the middle there. That's where we're at. That leaves a lot of people not voting but what about this what if the turnout rate was zero because nobody was running you know municipal elections are coming up in many parts of the country and i I see in Quebec, for the municipal elections, which I believe are the beginning of December,

in 11 communities, there's no one at all running for mayor. No one. There's not a single candidate who's put their name forward. And in 572 communities, let me say that again, 572 communities, the mayor is going to be announced the winner by acclamation because there's only one person running. Nobody ran against the mayor. Now, there could be lots of different reasons for that.

But still, the headline, hundreds of Quebec mayors elected unopposed as nomination period ends. It's pretty remarkable, really. Now, maybe it says good things about those incumbent mayors. They're great. Nobody wants to knock them out. There are a number of potential reasons. I'm going to bring it up tomorrow on Good Talk with Chantel and Bruce.

Because, you know, everybody worries about has coverage of elected officials been so rough and tough and the game, if you want to call it that, has become so rough and tough that people just don't want to enter politics at any level anymore? Does that speak to that? Do these numbers speak to that? Do these numbers speak to that issue? I don't know. I'll raise it

tomorrow and see what Bruce and Chantal think. As well as our regular go-round on affairs national. Okay. Here's the main topic for today. And boy, have I got the guests to do it. The main topic's about Alberta. You know, a number of people and friends and colleagues

who've looked at me and said, what the heck is going on in Alberta? Well, it's a legitimate question, and it's even more legitimate to ask somebody who's in Alberta to answer it for us. So a great friend of mine, somebody I respect enormously as a journalist and as a person is Kathleen Petty, who hosts the podcast West of Centre. She's also a well-known CBC personality, executive producer of the Calgary CBC show. And you see her popping up in different parts of the country because everybody wants a piece of Kathleen.

She's on Power and Politics, I think, a couple of weeks ago in Ottawa. She comes into Toronto all the time. But the place she loves is Alberta. And she's got a pretty good grasp, I think, of what's happening there. So we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, it'll be Kathleen Petty and what is going on in Alberta so Kathleen I've been trying to figure out how to start this conversation. And so I'm going to try them a number of different ways.

Okay. For starters, you know, I mean, there's so much to love about Alberta, right? And, you know, people look at the great mountains and the hockey teams and the people and the beef. I mean, you name it. As I said, there's so much to love about Alberta, but right now you mentioned the word Alberta and people go, ooh, yikes. Does it feel that way there as well? Oh, yeah, it does. I mean, first of all, I'll just say I've been traveling a little bit, Peter, because I was in Ottawa, as I think you know, hosting Power and Politics. I was in Toronto for the network radio coverage of the election.

And that's what I got constantly, people going, what the heck is going on in your province? And me trying to explain it. And I can tell you, it's a bit of a struggle, because if you talk to the people who live here, if I talk to my friends and my colleagues and in my circle, many of whom are not in media, by the way, they're as perplexed as anyone. I think people are feeling genuinely lost a little bit in despair, lost in despair, I would suggest. People feel,

you know, I think generally they believe in the province and what the province is capable of. And I think they even have confidence in the future. I mean, we've done recent polling that shows us that, that there is this still general optimism. But as people sort of confront what's right in front of them right now. And obviously, COVID is a huge factor in influencing so much of that. But it's sort of everything, isn't it? Because, you know, our main industry, right, the spine of our economy is still oil and gas. And it's in everyone's sights right now as a problem to fix, not an industry to count on and an industry to even publicly support. And so I think Albertans feel, I think they feel that they're a target of so much of the

conversations that go on. You know, one point that was made to me, and I thought it was exactly right. Alberta, because of its size in terms of the electorate, only has so much influence in terms of politics, but it has a huge influence in terms of the conversations that go on across the country. And I do think to an extent, Albertans feel very much talked about, as opposed to being talked to or talked with. And I think that's part of it, too. They really feel here under the microscope and at the same time, are kind of overwhelmed by where we find ourselves right now in terms of COVID and the impact that's having on people in a very real way. So on one hand, you can talk about politics, and obviously we do, because you and I do podcasts that focus on politics,

but ultimately it's about people's lives, isn't it? And that's what matters more, and I think people feel a certain level of despair and, you know, in other ways, a sense of resignation. Let me talk about the, I mean, not surprisingly, in other ways, a sense of resignation. Let me talk about the, I mean, not surprisingly, when things go bad, and they've certainly gone bad on COVID in Alberta, the focus tends to be on leadership and the Premier in particular. And these are bad, difficult, ugly days for Jason Kenney.

You know, I've watched him, as you have, for a long time, you know, before Alberta and obviously in Ottawa and his Ottawa days. And yet when I watched his statement two days ago, I don't think I've ever seen him like that. I mean, he looked like he was really carrying the weight of everything on his shoulders. He was perspiring. He was kind of shaky out of the gate on that thing. And that's not the Jason Kenney we had come to know.

You know, like him or not like his policies, he was a pretty confident guy. And then suddenly you're looking at a guy who really does seem like everybody's focused on him, not just the opposition, not just the people, but his own party. I mean, he seems alone in the moment. He does. I mean, a lot of people would argue that he's got a weak caucus. And that has, in a sense, allowed him to carry on perhaps longer than another premier might have. The comparison is often Alison Redford. And I'll hasten to point out their situations in terms of what's going on are radically different.

So you can't compare it in that sense. But in terms of where he's polling, you certainly can. You know, he's polling slightly above where she was polling when basically caucus punted her. But this caucus, I think, is at a loss about what to do. I think they're genuinely worried about their own political survival in the next election. And they seem to be very focused on him as the problem.

But they're also afraid to go on, I think, without him. Because let's not forget, this party that he leads, that has formed government, is his creation, right? I mean, you know him well. And anyone who sort of has watched his career, you can't help but marvel at how skillfully he's conducted his political life. So then if you take a look at the situation we have now and those skills seem to have failed him. And I know just from talking to a number of different people, you know, there are very many theories out there. But, you know, one thing is he doesn't first of and put in $1.5 billion, and that's going to

do the trick. He's going to change the school curriculum. And then there's this huge pushback, you know, the coal development, where there was a huge pushback from the population. I mean, it was political, but it was also very grassroots. And I could go on. And then over top of all of that, then we have COVID, where he says, I'm not going to do this. For example, when he was announcing opening the province up for summer, someone said, well, what if there's a fourth wave and hospitals are overrun again? And well, he said that was not a scenario he saw happening. And so then that what he ends up doing and what he seems to be doing over and over again is saying, no, never. And then a couple of weeks later, well, OK, you know, vaccine passports is another one.

So he's done a lot of no and then sort of a half-hearted yes and then more no's and more half-hearted yeses what he was apologizing for, he spent most of the rest of that news conference explaining why he didn't have anything to apologize for. And so he doesn't seem to have that instinct. And in addition, the other thing that I think people wonder about him is the extent to which he actually understands the province that he's leading. Because although he was an MP for Calgary, for sure, most of his time was spent in Ottawa. And I'm not sure that he knows the province that he's leading because he seemed to have an idea of what it was. You know, he had his big blue truck and his early news conferences were all at the Blackfoot Diner. And and he was going to have an anti-oil inquiry, which, of course, has been rife with problems. He was going to have his energy war room rife with more problems. So it feels like everything he came to fix in the province has not gone as advertised.

And then you add COVID, where he seems so determined. He said he was trying to find a balance. I think everyone can appreciate that it's been tough for a lot of premiers, not just him. But clearly the conclusion of the people of this province, because it has been poll after poll after poll after poll, he's been in the basement to the point of almost being subterranean when it comes to how people in this province assess his performance and handling, you know, a once in a lifetime, we hope, pandemic. And of course, you know, every day people are dying. Just today, 26 deaths reported in the last 24 hours.

And this is happening every day. Let me ask you about the leadership on COVID because, you know, he's the premier and you got to accept responsibility. You got to be accountable. But it's not like he wasn't getting advice from medical experts, bureaucrats, public health officials. Is there any shared blame here?

And is anybody calling for the head of the chief medical health officer or whatever the case may be and if they are why isn't he doing why isn't he taking that why isn't he saying you know i'm responsible but you know we need a shake up here yeah well because uh the way he has consistently justified the decisions that he's been making, especially the ones that have been criticized, like reopening too early, he attributes to Dina Hinshaw. This was her advice, right? That's the chief medical health officer, right? Yes, exactly. And I took that advice. Now, she has consistently said, and she's not incorrect

in this, that she offers advice, but it's ultimately a political decision that gets made. She doesn't make these decisions independently because her decisions are connected to things that only a cabinet and a premier can actually make happen. So ultimately, hers is an advisory role. But I will say that he makes a big point of saying that he is following her advice. She's been asked repeatedly, is this path the only path you offered him? Did you offer him a range of options and this is the one he chose? And she's not prepared to answer those questions.

I mean, she's very much become a politician herself is what i would say but even the open for summer and the and remember like maybe you don't but you know there was a point at which we weren't going to do uh we weren't going to have testing centers anymore here like no testing centers so i remember this is before you know the cases exploded we literally would have been in the dark. In addition to ending contact tracing and any number of things, not to mention sort of all the restrictions. But we were told that if you thought you might have COVID, go to your doctor or go to the hospital. But no testing centers. So that was part of what they and then she did interviews and she seldom does interviews. And she did a whole series of interviews with people because everyone was just scratching their head trying to figure out what is the thinking behind this.

And they since explained that the thinking was based on an experience in the UK. And they were using that sort of as the basis for the theory here. And we don't want to do a deep dive into sort of epidemiology and the science and all of that. But that turned out to be the wrong model to follow. And she has acknowledged that as has Jason Kenney. But many people suggested that it was also not the comparator that we should have been using because the situations were so different. And the argument being that, you know, they were looking for a way forward that would more fully open the economy and that Jason Kenney wanted, he wanted to be the first out of the gate to say,

we're done. It's an endemic, it's no longer a pandemic. And of course, when she was questioned by all these people questioning sort of the wisdom of this. And then, of course, we saw what happened with the it because we're not testing. I mean, it is a bit jaw dropping to think that we may have been in that position where COVID would be spreading and we would have no idea. Other than, obviously, by hospital admissions and overrun ERs where they keep adding surge beds to increase ICU capacity. And then there was great reporting today. I think it was Kerry Tate, but it was the Globe and Mail saying that 80% of hospitalized COVID patients, 80% return to the ER within a month of discharge. So, you know, it's more than just sort of the daily cases and the initial burden on hospitals. It's this ongoing burden. And now we have the Red Cross and the Canadian Armed Forces and some folks from Newfoundland coming in to help. And there's another example.

Jason Kenney was told, it was publicly acknowledged that Newfoundland was offering help. He said, we don't need it. And I think it was two, maybe three days later where he said yeah we need it and that's what i mean like he gets he's very definitive about something and then in this case a few days later or it might be a couple of weeks later or three weeks later uh he changes his mind but he never seems to be able to acknowledge that he made a wrong decision, like some kind of show of humility. And I think that's part of what's missing in the way he's communicating. Let me just ask one last question about Jason Kenney.

And that is, I'm not going to ask you whether he can survive. Enough people are weighing in on that already. Yeah, and I wouldn't be able to answer it anyway no i don't know yeah but i guess what i was also asking is does one have to be careful about calling trying to predict what this guy what jason kennedy will do anyway i mean is is is there any indication that he's lost his resolve? I guess is what I'm getting to. I mean, he looked shaken the other day.

Like he really looked shaky. He looked like the kind of guy who was just being told something and yet can't actually say it. But it's on his mind as he's trying to say something else. I mean, is it dangerous to try counting him out as a person, Jason Kenney? Oh, for sure. Because you just have, you know, you've been observing him as long as I have. No one should ever count Jason Kenney out. And I've made that point because people have sort of wondered about that.

And, you know, he's had a remarkable political career. You know, he's had some missteps for sure. We know that there's now going to be an early leadership review. In no way would I predict what is going to ultimately happen there. He, in my experience with him, he's always been a fighter. And I think he's always sort of exceeded expectations. But I would say that he's not been exceeding expectations recently. So then you have to wonder whether he's actually off his game in a way that the Jason Kenney that we've come to know is maybe not sort of fully enabled to fight back the way he once did. And you're right, he looked really tired and exhausted. And why wouldn't you be?

One would expect that. I mean, I always tell people never count Jason Kenney out. I never would. I don't think it's sort of his instinct to not fight through. But I'll tell you what I'll be watching for is fundraising numbers. have out-fundraised the UCP by a huge margin. And we'll be getting fresh numbers later on this month. The NDP has already said what theirs are. I think they were 1.3 million. And we'll see. Because that's really the key.

As you and I both know, in politics, money talks. And there's not a lot of money talking for the UCP. So these things tend to sort of have a domino effect. You know, you've got a grumpy caucus, some of whom, you know, the argument goes maybe Wild Rose and the PCs together is not a match made in heaven. After all, maybe they can't sort of be kept together. And that's, you know, was a big accomplishment of him, of his putting them together. But if you can't sort of keep that caucus, United people are obviously concerned about their own political futures, and they're ultimately going to do probably what's best for them. So there's the caucus, and then there's the

public fundraising numbers, and then there's the public with the polls. I mean, it seems like, you know, and I've talked to different people sort of off the record who are insiders who like have very honestly expressed their, you know, they never count them out. But they they do have serious doubts about his ability to survive this. He may survive as leader. But does he win the next election? And we all know that that's in politics, right? A week is a long time. Who knows? It's a long way away, but I think it's entirely fair to say that he's in for the fight of his life. And I've also pointed out, as much as Jason Kenney is a huge story

and is handling his leadership of the province and his leadership on COVID is a huge story, if he manages to be a phoenix from the ashes at the end of all of this, that too will be a heck of a story. Yeah, wouldn't it be? Yeah. Listen, Kathleen, as always, I always learn something listening to you and I've learned lots here today. thanks for so much for doing this and uh continued good luck with

west of center great pod thank you okay you take care as it is yours always happy to talk to you thanks all right Kathleen bye-bye bye Kathleen Petty in Calgary. And as I said, always wonderful to hear from her and get her take on what's happening on her home turf. And man, that's quite a story that continues to unfold there. Before we go today, got a little story I want to read. Something completely different. This was in the New York Times a couple of days ago. The dateline is Liverpool, England.

On Wednesday morning, as a new semester began, students eagerly headed into the University of Liverpool's lecture theatres to begin courses in archaeology, languages, and international relations. But in lecture room number five of the university's concrete Rendall building, a less traditional program was getting underway. A master's degree devoted entirely to the Beatles. How does one start a Beatles MA? Asked Holly Tesler, an American academic who founded the course, looking out at 11 eager students.

One wore a Yoko Ono t-shirt. Another had a yellow submarine tattooed on his arm. I thought the only way to do it, really, is with some music, she said. So what did she play? Penny Lane. Penny Lane, the real Penny Lane, and there's lots of argument over what that lane was actually named after, but nevertheless, Penny Lane is just a few blocks from the University of Liverpool. So who are these kids getting their MA? Those 11 students, who are they? Well, there are three women and eight men.

Their ages range from 21 to 67. All said they were long-term Beatles obsessives. Two had named their sons Jude, after one of the band's most famous songs, you know it. Another had a son called George, after George Harrison. Anyway, the article goes on a lot more, and the kind of things that they're going to try and teach to get these 11 students their MA, their Masters, in Beatles. You know, as somebody who grew up in the 60s

and loved the Beatles, who would have thought it would come to this? None of us did, I can tell you that. But there seems to be a trend in this. You may have noticed in the last couple of weeks that Ryerson, Ryerson University here in downtown Toronto, announced it was giving a course, not an MA, but a course in the music of Drake and The Weeknd.

So I guess that's where we're going. That's where we're heading. And you know, perhaps there's nothing wrong with that. music defines our times and whatever times those are in and look at all the differences in in our lifetimes especially those of us my age the kind of differences in music my lifetime it went from you know kind of sinatra to elvis to the Beatles, to punk, to what's happening today with the music of Drake and The Weeknd and others. Drake and The Weeknd, two of the biggest sellers of music anywhere in the world. Their music and how it defines their age, their times. So is that worthy to study? Well, I guess so.

I certainly think so at Ryerson. Okay, pointing ahead, usually Thursdays, as you know, are your turn. But we've missed a couple of Thursdays of your turns. Not that you haven't been writing in. You have been writing in. But I wanted to deal with this Alberta story and tomorrow's good talk. So we're going to punt it into next week,

probably next Thursday, your turn. And, you know, we'll get a collection of the letters of the last few weeks. And there have been, you know, any number of different topics from the election to COVID. I'm sure there'll be a few about Alberta now. To the book. Did I tell you I'm writing a new book?

There's a new book out there. Yeah. Anyway, in fact, I'm going to be on a couple of SiriusXM programs next week talking about the book, so we'll leave it at that. Tomorrow, good talk. Chantelle Hebert, Bruce Anderson. It's the most popular podcast of the Bridges Week, and in terms of political podcasts in Canada, it is the most popular.

It certainly has been for the last few weeks. Since we shifted to Friday, people love good talk on Friday because they can listen to it Friday or Saturday or Sunday or all three days because it's fun to listen to, right? All right, that wraps her up for this day. I'm Peter Mansbridge. This has been The Bridge. Thanks so much for listening.

And we'll talk to you again. Good to be back. Talk to you again in 24 hours. Thank you.