The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - You Voted -- On Open Bars and In House Dining

Episode Date: July 22, 2020

Some interesting thoughts from many of you about the recent spike in COVID numbers and what if anything should be done about it. Plus, imagining the winter ahead.

and hello there Peter Mansbridge here with the latest episode of the bridge daily let me begin with an apology to those of you who were upset last night when the old metronome popped back into the podcast. And listen, that's totally my fault. There is a little switch in the production procedure to ensure that that metronome does not appear, and I forgot to turn it off. I think that's the second time over the last, whatever it is now, 19 weeks where I've forgotten to turn it off. And it is very distracting.

There's no doubt about it. A number of you wrote right away last night, emailed me about it. And it was fixed by, well, mid-evening last night. But it did mean that you have to download the podcast one more time to get the clean version. I know some of you managed to do that. Others said, tough luck, Mansbridge. You lost me tonight with the metronome.

Well, hopefully we got you back on this night, because a lot of you must have suffered through the metronome last night because you wrote in with your votes on this question about in-restaurant dining and in-bar bars and whether or not they should be closed. Because we have seen an uptick in the numbers in different parts of the country. Quebec West, pretty much.

Atlantic's still looking pretty good, like very good, actually. Today, the number, as I mentioned yesterday, the numbers come in at different points during the day. The early results on today were encouraging in the sense that Ontario came down after three or four days of going up. It came down a bit, still well above where it was a week ago, but did come down. And they've isolated the cause for them to mainly private parties that were going on in the Ottawa area by young people. And some issues surrounding restaurants and bars.

But the main issue was private parties. So they are pleading with people, young people, that that is not a good thing. Anyway, you wrote in, people are not patient on this front. You know, they've been very patient for the last four or five months. They've followed the rules and the restrictions as laid down. And they saw, for the most part, pretty good results because of that. They're not willing, at least in the ones who've written into me in the last 24 hours, they're not willing to give that up just to be able to have a bar open that they can go and drink

at. Or that restaurants beyond patio dining, when there have been some very unique ways of doing that. I just look at my town and the way things have opened up with this city, you know, going along with the process of allowing more areas outside of restaurants to create patio areas, closing down some streets, widening sidewalk areas. That's all been good. So it seems to me that most of you who have been writing in, I would say it's around 70-30 in taking a hard stand on this and pulling back based on the early numbers we've seen. And they are early. I'll give that to those who've written in and said, hey, you're overreacting. It is early, but most of you are saying, close them down.

Most people who wrote in just gave the yes or no answer. But some of you actually went a little further than that. So I'm going to read a few of these because I think there's some good comments here on both sides of this issue. So let me go through them here. We'll start with Cameron Somerville in Vancouver, BC. I think the phase two felt a lot safer than phase three. I do worry about the impact on small local

businesses, but with so many on the streets around me doing takeout, it's been easy to still support local business while staying safe. We've been getting takeout from a local business every Friday for dinner. That's more than we usually would eat out. In an effort to ensure our favorite places can survive this downturn, I think it's very possible for us to protect the economy and our health. This isn't a completely black and white issue, though. It's not an either-or issue. That's Cameron Somerville from Vancouver. Vicki Hall from Toronto.

I hate to say that indoor seating at restaurants and bars should be closed down because I fear many restaurants will not survive further closures. Well, you know, I can tell you, Vicki, that the numbers I've seen from various associations representing dining and bars suggest that two out of three restaurants will close by the end of this year if they're not supported. Two out of three. That's a lot. Anyway, back to Vicki's letter.

Alas, the health and safety of our communities and getting our kids back in schools first should be our priority. Thanks so much for your daily podcast. Missed listening while you were out on your well-deserved vacation. Thank you. I don't know how deserved it was

but it sure was nice to get away from everything for a few days. Annette Duvall writes, I'm not sure where Annette is writing from, but here's what she says. My opinion regarding bars and indoor restaurants. One, no indoor dining until at least late autumn, depending on the effect of school reopening plans and probable second wave. No bars until we have a vaccine. That's number two.

No bars open until we have a vaccine. Karen Argento from Calgary, Alberta. First, may I thank you for taking time and energy to produce your daily podcast. I look forward to listening every evening. Thank you. As for the debate about should the provinces close the bars and inside dining and restaurants, that's a difficult one to call

because we have no firm data yet to confirm that the opening of those sites are the actual cause of the spikes in positive COVID cases. That's true to a point. As I mentioned earlier, there are some where they are convinced they know what caused the spikes. For us, we have only visited one outdoor patio for dinner since the lockdown began. Normally, we do takeaway because I want to support our local restaurants. I think the spike in positive cases could be the result of large indoor private gatherings.

You can check that off as a yes in the Ottawa area. And private parties where those involved did not social distance, which is almost impossible to do when alcohol is taken. So no, I do not think indoor dining should be closed, but I do think bars should be closed. Okay, Karen Argento from Calgary, Alberta. Randy Shantz from Toronto. I think the priority is to open schools first. I live in Toronto and I see people in patio bars closer than two meters. Alcohol is a depressant and so that is why we become less inhibited when we drink.

So people will more likely forget or ignore oppressive rules, social distancing. Also, young people under 25 are much more risk tolerant. I think this is contributing to the increase in new cases. Maybe right there, that seems to be the issue in the spike in Ottawa over the weekend. Dan Carr, once again, Dan doesn't mention where he's writing from. I remind you to try and mention that when you do write in. It's helpful.

Dan writes, I think they opened early, so let's close for a few weeks and then see the numbers. Bad for the business owners, but so would a spike in cases that would shut it all down again, or worse, let the virus run wild david oliver from victoria he writes about a number of things but as we get to this issue as for closing or keeping open the bars i'm not sure it's the only way to tackle the pandemic.

Okay, we kind of know, David, in some areas on these spikes, and it's been made clear by different provincial health authorities. But overall, I hear what you're saying, and this issue of keeping trust in public health authorities is a really important one. Okay, here's the last one I'm going to read for this. As I said, most of you who wrote in said yes or no to this. Overall, I'd say it's around 70-30, 65-35 maybe, but it's pretty obvious that most of you feel they shouldn't hold

back if these numbers in any way continue as they have in these last few days. All right, Lane Robson. Lane's in Calgary. And this is a little longer, but it's really interesting. Where do you hear Lane's perspective? Listening to yesterday's show, my reply to your question about whether restaurants and bars should be required to shut down is an absolute yes. If not fully shut down, it should be required that they either reduce capacity or move toward outside-only

seating. I do food delivery, driving part-time in the evenings, so I'm required to frequent bars and restaurants, but not as a patron. It's been genuinely shocking to see how many customers at restaurants and bars, especially, seem to have no regard whatsoever for the fact that we are still in the midst of a pandemic. It's particularly sad for me to see the restaurant workers who are following all the required guidelines, wearing masks and gloves, sanitizing everything in sight, only to be serving customers who don't seem to care at all. As an Albertan who is seeing our cases rise, and specifically a Calgarian who is seeing our cases rise alarmingly fast, I can't help but conclude that bars and restaurants are a contributing, if not leading, factor.

When doing delivery shifts, if it's a busy night, as I will purposefully reject orders from bars in favor of fast food restaurants, where most pickups are made through a drive-through window, even though those orders generally pay less. Thanks for helping. Keep us all sane with your daily shows throughout the process. I would never know what day or week of quarantine we're in without your updates. All right, that's an interesting perspective, you know, from somebody who's in the delivery business, who's going in and out of restaurants and bars all the time, picking up meals and witnessing what's going on,

at least in the ones he goes to. So I like that, and I appreciate it. Anyway, if you have thoughts on this issue, don't be shy. Keep them coming. I've also been tracking what has been said on our Twitter posts and our Instagram posts. So choose whatever method you want, but if you want to write to the podcast directly,

it's themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. I want to read a little bit of a really interesting article that Bloomberg had out. I think it was yesterday or the day before, but I've been saving it up for a bit. I watch for, I'm not sure for what reason. I mean, I was born in England.

I spent a lot of time in Scotland. So I try to keep in tune with what's going on there, and I've watched with interest the ups and downs of the Boris Johnson government. Anyway, Bloomberg has an interesting piece on Bojo, as they call him, and what kind of winter may lie ahead for him. Remember, Boris Johnson had COVID, and people were very worried. He ended up in the hospital, ended up in the intensive care unit. He was never put on a ventilator, but he was in the ICU.

But he appears to have made a full recovery and he's certainly back on the job. So let me read a little bit of this from Bloomberg, because in a way it's particular to Boris Johnson and to England, but it's also something we might be wanting to think about as well. Here we go. Winter is coming, but which one? UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson acknowledged last week that there are two possible scenarios, a mild season on the coronavirus front or a viral blizzard. He'd like

Britain to start investing, spending and moving around as if the end of 2020 will be benign. He's promised that the government will, however, be ready for the other eventuality, too. Politically, it's an appealing stance. It allows Johnson to claim he's helping to reopen the economy and save jobs, while also prioritizing public health. It's a difficult one for businesses and individuals, however. It offers little concrete guidance on what to do and raises the question of whether Johnson has learned

from his previous pandemic mistakes. And which scenario emerges matters a lot. And this is where the Bloomberg article is interesting because it paints the scenario for us of what a good winter might look like and what a bad winter might look like. This is in Britain. So here's the good winter might look like and what a bad winter might look like. This is in Britain. So here's the good winter scenario.

It's February 2021, and life has become more colorful again. The Genesis reunion tour was great. You occasionally work from home, but you're back to the office quite a lot. Nothing beats the synaptic surges of workplace banter. Her feet are remembering what it's like to wear shoes not designed for running. His colored shirts no longer look pointless in their dry cleaner's plastic. Restaurants require bookings weeks in advance. You've started to say crazy busy again when friends ask how it's going. The virus hasn't been banished, but you know the drill. Mask up on transport, squirt the hand gel, respect private space, open the windows even if it's cold.

It's not perfect. One sniffle and your entire household goes into isolation until a test is done. But compared to the mayhem in the U.S., now Joe Biden's problem, or the dire events in Bolsonaro's Brazil, Britons have it good. If the good winter is what's in store, Johnson will have won big. People will be relieved to have normalcy restored. Business confidence will grow, setting aside for now the question of Britain's departure from the European Union's single market at the end of the year. Okay, that's the good winter.

It's only when you consider what a bad winter looks like that the stakes become clearer. Here we go again. British schools have closed once more in what has been an exasperating stop-start year. Europe has said no thank you to flights from the UK. Every sniffle feels like a death sentence. Johnson's promised 500,000 daily tests were delivered,

but they're not covering everyone who needs to test a seasonal symptom. Some people don't bother anyhow, convinced they only have the regular flu. You went back to the office, but it wasn't the same. Those purposeful blocks of glass and steel that make up the city's landscape look forlorn. Riding the London Underground, once a grim contact sport played by people in pinstripes, is the most pleasant part of the day, though it's unnerving how few staff are around. Just as the expert advisory group of the Academy of Medical Sciences warned back in their July report,

the change in season proved friendly to COVID as people started spending less time outdoors and more time cohabiting smaller spaces with less ventilation. What's worse, the National Health Service isn't coping. The focus on COVID created a backlog of millions of non-critical cases. Cancers aren't being diagnosed and treatments have fallen behind. But it's the combination of the regular flu season and the COVID flu season that's the literal killer. The flu vaccination program was expanded to reduce the number of other flu-stricken patients, but there wasn't enough capacity to cover all age groups. Mental health was also frayed because of months of

lockdown, job insecurity, and income loss. British winters are always dark and this one feels interminable. Far from uniting the country, the virus has contributed to divisions. After Scots noticed that their government did a better job of handling the virus, support for Scottish independence went up and that has happened anyway. And while much of the poorer north of England remains shut down, there are more COVID-free zones in the wealthier south, breeding resentment and forcing the government to pile on more spending commitments. All right. That one really is depressing, isn't it?

So you saw the good winter, the bad winter. Johnson can't say which scenario is going to prevail and Britain may get a combination of both. The problem is that the hope for the best prepare for the worst policy doesn't provide much clarity for business or for people, right?

And I guess in some ways that's where we all are. What's this winter going to be like? Well, we're still in the middle of summer. Let's hope the summer gives us some memories that summer's past have done as well. Part of that will be determined how we deal with this kind of situation we're in now. Is it just a kind of blip on the road to recovery or is there something more to it than that? I take your comments very carefully. I could tell what those of you who wrote more than a yes or a no, that this really does concern you,

but you also are concerned about the impact shutting down would have on people you care about, on businesses you care about, that you want to do the right thing. And also more than a few of you said, can we not fix schools first before we're worrying about bars? Interesting point, right? How much time is being talked about in terms of schools versus all the other different issues?

And schools are critical not just to our present but to our future. And so they should be getting as much discussion as anything else, if not more than anything else. All right. Your thoughts on all of this are always welcome at themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com, themansbridgepodcast at gmail.com. I promise, I promise I will be careful and make sure that the metronome switch is turned off when this podcast goes out to you by the magic of, I still don't know how any of this

stuff works. People get a kick out of showing me this. Sending me the link to, I think it was 1992 or 93, a piece that we had on the National one night, and I'm introducing it, and it's an explanation of the Internet. But it's so funny to watch it to me, Senator. We're going to tell you tonight about something that's happening, and it's called the Internet.

It's clearly the first time that's ever rolled off my lips in terms of being on air. And it shows, I was thinking about it again last night. You know, that was, well, it was less than 30 years ago. And how has our world changed since then? Man, it has changed a lot. Some of it for the good. I mean, we've got information at our fingertips.

So easy to find. So easy to get. So challenging to trust in some cases. But it's all there. And it's all happened in less than 30 years. It is remarkable. Anyway, somehow the internet's involved in making me sitting here in my little office, in my little house in Stratford, Ontario,

pop into your house, wherever you happen to be, across this country or around the world. Remember, we've got people in more than 130 countries listening to The Bridge Daily. That's quite something. I'm proud of that fact, and I'm greatly thankful to all of you who bother to tune in. All right, that's enough for this day.

I'm Peter Mansbridge. This has been The Bridge Daily, and we will be back for Thursday's edition of The Bridge Daily in 24 hours. Thank you.