The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Your Turn - For and Against Bike Lanes

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

The Random Ranter sure started something last week with his rant on bike lanes and you certainly responded both for and against what he had to say.   If his job is to provoke, it worked!  Also your comments on the Erin O'Toole exit interview.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. Bike lanes. The random renter went on bike lanes last week and you sure have had a response. That's coming up. You know, one of the elements of the bridge that I'm most proud of in this past year has been the introduction. Last fall, last September, on kind of a test basis, we did it for, the idea was to do it for a couple of weeks and see how you reacted to it. And that was our friend, the Random Renter.

From Western Canada. We've never located where or identified who exactly he is. I know, of course, need to know that. But he lives somewhere between, as we've always said, Thunder Bay and Victoria. So he considers himself a Westerner, and he is. He's always lived in Western Canada. He doesn't have particular political acts to grind. He's no member of a party. He doesn't work for any of the parties. He's just a guy with a, I was going to say a normal job,

but it's not really normal. It's an everyday job, all right? It's one of those jobs that makes the country work. And, uh, he has lots to say about all kinds of different issues. So I had known him for a while, probably, I don't know, 25, 30 years. And I said, why don't you try this? He'd never done anything like this. Not a journalist, not a commentator. He's just somebody with, uh, you know, pretty strong views and he researches his views. And I appreciated that. So I said, well, let's try it. So we did a few things and it kind of took off. People either liked what he had to say or didn't like what he had to say, but almost everyone appreciated the fact he got them thinking on a particular topic.

And so throughout the year, I mean, we kept extending the idea and he kept wanting to do them. And so we've been doing them. And this is the last one before our summer break, today's rant. But last week's rant was on bike lanes he's got problems with bike lanes very specifically he talked about his own area mainly the prairie provinces manitoba saskatchewan alberta he had concerns about how bike lane he's a biker, he likes biking, all of that, but he doesn't like the way they've done bike lanes. Anyway, it was like turning on a tap.

Man, we got lots of reaction. So we're starting the program with that today in terms of your turn for this week. And once again, I read all the letters that come in. I don't read all of them on the air. And of the ones I do read, I usually only read a sentence or two or three, maybe four. But often you guys love writing. You like write long letters.

So I just isolate a little bit of each letter. So let's get started. Topic of cycling. And these are just, this is just a random pile. It's not organized in any specific way. Robert McKenzie writes from Toronto. Now, Toronto is not Winnipeg or Saskatoon or Regina or Calgary or Edmonton. It's Toronto. Okay.g or Saskatoon or Regina or Calgary or Edmonton. It's Toronto.

Okay? But Robert writes from Toronto. I've been a Toronto commuter cyclist for 15 years, and I don't own a car. I love hitting play on a new episode of The Bridge just as I'm setting out somewhere. And yes, I can safely hear everything around me with earbuds on. The ranter said people on bikes don't shop or eat or do anything the same way people in cars do. I'm not kidding. As I was listening to this, I just locked my bike and was walking into a midtown restaurant. I was in the area to shop. Rather than jump to conclusions on this topic, Toronto City Council did a trial run,

or pilot project, of bike lanes on Bloor Street, a major corridor. Here's just a sampling of the findings. Following the bike lane installation, there are more customers on Bloor. The number of reported customers served by merchants increased on Bloor Street during the pilot. Customers are spending more on Bloor. Colleen Trim. What's she got on her own? Oh, this is in the wrong section. We'll get to Colleens uh comments later but they're uh later in the broadcast uh back to biking nicole brandon in london ontario

thank you random ranter for raising an important topic still it would be helpful to get some facts straight the issue of street parking yes cycle lanes often replace street parking, but let's be honest about what we're talking about when we say street parking. This is code for free parking. People get their knickers in a twist when a handful of street parking spots disappear, when there are parking lots galore. A recent study of downtown parking in my city, London, Ontario, found a total of 29 acres of surface parking lot in the core. That's a lot of spaces and doesn't include the underground lots. The real issue isn't car parking because there's plenty of it. The issue is our collective feeling of entitlement to free parking. For a night out, we're willing to spend money

for a meal, drinks, and entertainment. This might add up to a couple of hundred dollars, but we aren't willing to spend five or ten dollars to park the car. Lise Demere in Quebec City. I listen religiously to your podcast from Quebec City about bike paths in cities. I see sidewalks on both sides of the road, but not as many pedestrians on them. To me, it doesn't make any sense.

I prefer one side with a sidewalk and one side with a bike path. That would make more sense to me. And when they would open new roads and new neighborhoods, I would plan to get a path that would suit everyone. I don't know if that would work. You'd have bikes going in different directions on one path, and that could lead to a problem, but I hear you. Interesting. Minnie Boshma. And Minnie is writing from Edmonton.

I've been thinking about investing in a good bike. I've been riding transit with an eye to accessing the city. And I found myself outraged by the way my city managers, my and others, need to get around. In North America, we just haven't thought about humaneness. A few years ago, I gave up my car and have felt a second-class traveler ever since. Every voyage into the world is more difficult, takes more time. There are places I no longer get to except by cab or borrowed car. Cycling would allow me to go further in areas underserved by transit, but the idea of

sharing road space with traffic is more than a little terrifying. This is Alberta, so we have more than our fair share of jumped-up pickups driven with attitude or crankiness. And here I agree with the random ranter. At the present time, changes to the transportation infrastructure to accommodate bicycles are being made, it seems, by people that ride fast on road race bikes, or that road. But in my experience, even pedestrians and transit riders get short shrift from the planning department, and that's a whole other rant. Minnie's letter, by the way, is one of those really long ones, so I'll just excerpt a small part of it.

Sheila Kinzel from Calgary. A lot of Alberta riders on this issue of bikes, and both pro and con, to what the random ranter had to say. Sheila writes, second time riding, and once again, I agree with what the ranter is saying on bike lanes. They have been putting more and more bike lanes in and around Calgary, and taking out revenue generating parking fees and in winter causes more traffic issues. Since I'm retired, I do not go

downtown much anymore, so the signs and traffic lights for bikes and cars have been confusing because there is zero advertising on what they mean. Laura Travosi Laura writes, I usually am on board with about 90% of the random renter,

but we aren't Europe. He does know that many European nations have winter, the same as we do, right? I mean, Finland, Sweden, Germany, Poland, Netherlands are just some examples of European countries that have winter. Finland is the same latitude as the Northwest Territories, and even they have bike lanes and paths. Even places like Northern Italy, France, and yes, in some parts of Spain, get snow. So yes, if Europe figured out bike lanes, which in most European countries are also the bus, taxi, and deliveries lane,

then why can't we look to their example? They make so many things work that we as Canadians think is impossible and is just a part of their normal day-to-day lives. Darcy Raynard, Edmonton. He's got a PhD in urban planning, so he must know what he's talking about, right? I'm finally writing because I have a comment on the ranter's take on bike lanes. He's correct that we need more of them and they need to be better. The reason so many are so poorly constructed is that they are actually car infrastructure.

Most cities in North America won't inconvenience drivers at all, so bike lanes are shoehorned into cities. It's been shown that good quality bike lanes increase riding, even in the winter in Canada. However, the best winter biking city is Ulu, Finland. See Pekka Tahokkola's YouTube channel for more information. All right. Still more letters on bike lanes.

Keep them coming.ry sims in victoria love the podcast and its scant of characters true canadian news media icons i'm glad the ranter had to go with the bike lane foolishness here in canada the cyclists want to be considered same as a vehicle and even get their own lanes, kind of. They don't follow the same rules and are hit all the time in traffic sometimes with very bad outcomes. We get winter. If it's below zero, stay off the bike. Seriously. We had snow last year for three days in Victoria, and all the rant was how the bike lanes didn't get cleared of snow for the cyclists. It's Canada, buddy. Sometimes maybe ask yourself, should I take my bike out in the snow? Brodie Otway, Prince George, BC. Contrary to popular belief, Canada does not have a monopoly on winter,

and Amsterdam was not always a cycling haven. The city of Ulu in Finland lies at 65 degrees north latitude. That's much farther north than Whitehorse or Yellowknife, and they have a tremendous population of cyclists. 12% of all trips in winter are made by bicycle in Ulu. That is not niche. Ulu is not some tiny eccentric village either. It's a bustling city of 200,000 people with plenty of car-centric urban sprawl. They build extensive cycling infrastructure and they maintain it very well in all conditions to people so people use it. Amazing, eh?

I never heard of Ulu, Finland until today's program. And Brody's last point, the one thing that the ranter gets right is that cycling infrastructure must be thoughtfully planned and built. A stripe painted down the side of an existing road or a random bike lane to nowhere doesn't do anything to help everyone. Well, well thought out cycling infrastructure is good for both motorists and cyclists.

It just takes a bit of planning and effort to make it happen. Ian Hebblethwaite from Moncton. The random rander. I think his focus was too narrow and should have been to urban planning in general. Here in Moncton, we recently had driving lanes that went nowhere and have intentionally missing landmarkings. Let me try this again. Here in Moncton, we recently had driving lanes that went nowhere and have intentionally missing lane markings, meaning each lane can go into either exit and another intersection that forces 90% of vehicles to change lanes rather than lanes going the way the majority of cars drive.

I don't know, Ian, I'm having trouble reading that sentence, but I think I understand what you're trying to get at. Poor urban planning is very much an aggravation. God, I've still got a couple more. Lawrence Brawl from Calgary. We all have thresholds, and suddenly what seemed like a neat idea is a dumb idea. But not bike lanes. Not in Calgary, at least.

Our pathway system has grown to over 1,000 kilometers, and dedicated bike lanes are now common in the inner city. Commuting has become safer and quicker, and with a 30% office vacancy rate, the traffic still moves well into downtown in the inner city commuting has become safer and quicker and with a 30 office vacancy rate the traffic still moves well into downtown in the morning in 2024 the winter cycling congress will be in edmonton the random ranters should attend and be inspired by intercyclists from finland norway and all of europe i will be there wearing a balaclava and lawrence added a picture for us in his balaclava james mills also from calgary let's be serious livable cities and communities should be for everyone cycling infrastructure costs a small fraction

of vehicle infrastructure the argument of never having seen a cyclist use it is just plain silly. If the same argument is applied to sidewalks, not to mention side streets that are used infrequently, well, you get the point. The upkeep for road infrastructure comes from municipal taxes, not licensing or fuel. So cyclists, who also own property in many cases, deserve representation in the funding discussion. There are benefits derived from exercise that directly reduce health care costs. The environment benefits.

Our communities benefit from less vehicle traffic. And our final letter on bike lanes comes from Pamela McDermott in Burlington, Ontario. I understand the ranter's point that some planning is needed for bike lanes, but sometimes it's best not to be too Canadian, i.e. conservative, small c, about it all. I've seen bike lanes on the freeways in Sydney, Australia, and felt wonder when standing in the metropolis of Beijing, decades ago now,

and listening to the quiet, broken-by bike bells and clickety-clack of wheels and brakes. Unfortunately, that is no more, but it was something to see. It sure was, Pamela. I mean, I was in China in the mid-1970s, and I was there for three weeks, saw a lot of the country by train and in some of the big cities, Beijing, Peking then it was called,

Shanghai, and Canton as it was called then. And you rarely saw a car. You hardly ever saw a car, but you saw millions of bicycles. And I mean millions of bicycles. And somehow that kind of river of bikes through the cities, especially Beijing, was something to behold. That's how people got along. But they didn't have bike lanes.

They had streets for bikes. And the very odd time that, you know, some Mao Zedong or Chou Enlai or somebody like that would go by in a motorcade of half a dozen cars or so and then disappear, swallowed up by the Great Hall of the People or whatever in downtown Beijing in the core of the city. And then the next thing you'd see were these bikes, hundreds of thousands of bikes coming down the street. Okay, those are our comments.

And just as we have so many times with the Random Ranter, he's provoked discussion and opinion on a um on an issue so i was wondering you know what's he going to talk about to close out the season before we take our summer break what's he got in his mind is he going to throw some softball at us so everybody says oh that was a nice comment and no i don't have to say anything else about it. But, oh, no, that's not the random renter. He likes to get at people's thoughts, provoke them into feeling that they need to comment as well. Even if it's just comment across the table to their families about something they heard on this program. Well, this is an issue that I know that every family in Canada

has talked about at least once in the last year or two, probably more than once. Want to guess what it is? It's something that affects every family. We're all supposed to do it. Okay, I'm not going to hint anymore. all supposed to do it. Okay. I'm not going to hint anymore. Let's get at it.

The random ranter for this week. Here he goes. Majority of people. Oh, excuse me, Mr. Random ranter. I think I started the rant a little late. Let's try starting it on time now, Peter. Okay, three, two, one, cue.

I think recycling as we know it is broken. And the majority of people, they seem pretty comfortable with it. Or at the very least, blissfully ignorant to it. Because frankly, our recycling levels are a catastrophe. 85% of our e-waste ends up in a landfill. Only 9% of the plastic we use ends up recycled. And lithium batteries? They're at a measly 5%. Simply put, the way we recycle, it sucks. And it sucks because the only incentive to do it right is that it's the right thing to do. But hey, I'm not saying recycling can't work. I'm saying it isn't working.

And industry talking it up, all those tips on how to recycle properly, the government encouraging us, well, that's just window dressing for the fairy tale. Because even when we do everything right, tons of the material we send to the recycler ends up as garbage anyways. Sure, part of that is our fault for contaminating our recyclables, but I think a huge part of it is that a lot of the recyclable material is not economically viable to actually recycle. But I don't want to get bogged down in the minutiae

because I don't care about the whged down in the minutiae because I don't care about the whys or the hows of recycling. I only care about the is, as in, is it being recycled or not? And when you look at the numbers, the answer is almost always not. Consider this. Aluminum beverage cans are recycling's best case scenario. They're one of the easiest products to recycle, and aluminum has actual value, yet only 50% of beverage cans actually make it to the other side. And that's our fault.

So throw all the excuses out the window. It's not that recycling sucks, it's that we suck at recycling. But you know, once upon a time, before plastic ruled the world, there was glass, and you paid a deposit on every glass bottle, and that deposit was not insubstantial. I remember it being 25 cents on a bottle of coke that was probably a dollar. This system still exists for beer and alcohol containers, even if the deposit seems stuck at 1975 levels. I mean, 60 cents on a six-pack that cost $2.50?

That was substantial, but 60 cents on a $15 six-pack these days? I'm not so sure. But I do think there is something to deposits, because back in the day, people didn't throw out their bottles. They often hoarded them, but they did not throw them out. I'm sure that was a pain for the grocers who sold them and the suppliers who had to collect them and the industry that had to keep track of the deposits and the bottlers that had to clean them and so on and so on. But at the end of the day, we weren't throwing out bottles. We recycled them, not for the greater good, not because it was the right thing to do. We returned them because we wanted our money back. And I don't know why we can't do the same thing with

plastics and electronics. We need to shift the burden of recycling onto industry. They need to be accountable for the entire life cycle of their products. Because if you're going to sell something, then part of the responsibility should fall on you to ensure that it can be recycled and that it actually gets recycled. If you want to see change, put deposits on plastic water bottles or make me front up some serious cash on my next TV. Guess what? For $100, I'll be happy to haul my TV to wherever I need to when I'm done with it. And at 50 cents a water bottle, I'll pack those suckers up and take them to the grocer every Sunday. This isn't a solution, but it's a start, because things are critically out of hand.

We need to put pressure on industry to ensure that sustainability becomes a defining parameter in the way everything is designed, built, packaged, and consumed. Because it's not just the product, it's the packaging too. I mean, when you order an SD card for a camera the size of a fingernail and it comes in a big box stuffed with packing peanuts and plastic bubble wrap, it's got to make you sick. But industry isn't concerned about that and that's why I think they need to be held accountable for the impact of all their actions. They need to start spending as much time thinking about the end of life for their products and their packaging

as they do trying to figure out how to convince us to buy them in the first place. Because most of the crap we buy will be lurking and leeching on this earth long after we've gone to dust. Well, there you go. The Random Ranters. Last rant before the summer break. Now, we don't have a Your Turn next week or over the next few weeks, but if you have something you'd like to say about the rant on recycling, don't

be shy. Drop me a line. The Mansbridge Podcast at gmail.com The Mansbridge Podcast at gmail.com I'll certainly read it and keep it in mind. But thanks to the Random Ranter. A great first year on the program. We'll see where things take us when we get back at it after the Labor Day weekend. And a reminder, we will be having a couple of new shows

on the Good Talk front during the summer, one in late July, one in late August. So Chantal and Bruce will be back for that. Other than that, it's a, what do we call them, encore shows on Mondays through the summer months. Some of the best of the bridge from the past year. All right. There are more letters to come for your turn,

not just about the random ranter. And we'll get to them right after this. And welcome back. Peter Mansbridge here with the Thursday episode of The Bridge. It is your turn and the random ranter. And it's something you're listening to on Sirius XM, channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. Let's get back at it with some more letters from you,

from our listeners. I'm kind of partial to this one it's from colleen trim i tried to read a little earlier but i had it in the wrong pile here it's in the right pile it's all by itself at the top of block two of your turn today it is impossible to listen to the mainstream media anymore when your podcast outshines them all. You know, it's nice to hear from relatives here at the bridge, but Aunt Colleen has written a nice letter here. Your podcast with your guests, regular and random, is beyond excellent.

You are an Olympian interviewer. Your listening and probing skills are incomparable. Thank you, Colleen. Trust me, not everyone says that. Well, especially Miss Bruce, Chantel, and Brian, along with Janice and the Random Ranter. You are models of the highest excellence in your fields. I hope journalism students are listening and learning.

We are truly fortunate that you took on this project. Zero complaints, only kudos. Wishing you all the best. Looking forward to your return. We'll be listening to the older episodes. Can't get to sleep without you all in bed with me. That's too much information, Colleen. Happy summer. Well, happy summer to you as well, and thanks for all those nice thoughts that's very kind of you um john dunn writes from scarabray ranch in coley alberta uh and he's got things to say about aaron o'toole

and we had the feature interview with Aaron O'Toole, the exit interview, just the other day, on Monday of this week. Worth listening to, if you have a chance. If you missed it, go back to the Monday show. I suspect that many of your listeners welcome Mr. O'Toole's very Canadian call for collegiality in politics and perhaps wished that he had managed to stay as leader of the Progressive Conservatives. Actually, they're not Progressive Conservatives. They're the Conservative Party of Canada.

I am not one of those listeners, says John. As a slightly right-of-centre Canadian, I have watched the Justin Trudeau Liberals take their party and this country well left of the largely sensible centrist policies that preceding governments, Liberal and Conservative, generally gravitated to. I do not, like Mr O'Toole, diminish the damage that the current PM and his government has inflicted upon Canada, whether it be our stratospheric debt, our woeful productivity, languishing military, naive foreign policy, regional divisiveness, broken civil service, ethical lapses, and a prostrating of Canada's history and culture to one of identity, politics, and woke victimhood.

Drew Hubley from Lakelands, Nova Scotia. I quite enjoyed the interview with Aaron O'Toole. He's a gifted communicator with well-reasoned stances on many issues facing our country. I, however, found myself frustrated throughout if that Aaron O'Toole had led the Conservative Party in the last election, he very well could have won. Well, actually, he did lead the party in the last election,

and they didn't win. I certainly would have voted for him as a dead center voter. Maybe he meant the next election. I'm not sure. Dan O'Connor from Calgary. I enjoyed the interview with Aaron. I found him to have quite a lot of poise and dignity as he was exiting his position and he spoke about his time and power quite well. I

liked the way you tried to prod him about being bitter and so on and he seemed to rise above it, so kudos to him. I was a little disappointed that you didn't ask a little more about his new view on the carbon tax, because it was my impression he campaigned for the leadership of the party as anti-carbon tax. You're right. And then when he became leader and running in the election, he then developed a carbon tax without consulting his caucus, which I believe really annoyed his base and is probably why he was shown the door. I'm not sure if that's

correct or not probably a good part of it is perhaps an evil excuse me perhaps an exit interview isn't the right venue to give him the gears over his performance but that was something that always bugged me that's a fair point dan i. I hear you on that one. Yvonne Robertson. This is an interesting letter. If you listen to the Aaron O'Toole interview, one of the parts that I found the most revealing, instead of sort of going over old ground, one of the points I found the most revealing is I said,

look, the job of a leader is to get good candidates to run for you in an election campaign. And they usually target a number of candidates they want. And I asked him, how hard was it to get good people to run? And he said he targeted, he and his top officials targeted 20 people they wanted to run for the party in the last election. They talked to them, they tried to encourage them. There seemed to be some interest, but at the end of the day, only two of the 20 agreed to run, which says something about our politics today.

Mr. O'Toole said when he probed the reasons why, a lot of it had to do with they just weren't willing to put their families through the kind of stuff that we all see on social media. So Yvonne Robertson writes this. She was the candidate in Don Valley West. That's one of the greater Toronto ridings for the Conservatives. I ran in 2019 and 2021 in federal elections and the negative effects on my family,

children, my business, and social media repercussions are negative and impactful. Just last week, a prominent private school in Toronto cancelled their year-end parent volunteer gifts from my little cookie shop because I was the conservative candidate in 2021, and a parent was not comfortable. That's disappointing. I'm a qualified candidate with degrees in political science and law.

I've run my own businesses for 25 plus years and the toxic environment is fanned especially in Toronto I've seen the worst of things carried out by MPs and it is definitely not for the faint of heart there you go alright there's kind of a potpourri of letters to close out today's show. Dan Klein.

I'm a listener from the Orlando, Florida area. I'm not sure I should be proud of this, but over the past several years, I've become very disenchanted with the state of American politics and turned to Canada Now as my channel of choice on XM Radio. I do some long-distance running, marathons and half-marathons. I download your podcasts to my phone and listen to them during my training runs. I can't say I totally understand the Canadian political system. Don't worry.

Some of us don't either. But enjoy the insight and commentary on your shows. Thanks again for your podcast. David Conley, also in the U.S. I live in the USA in Lexington, Kentucky and I've really enjoyed your weekly podcast, The Bridge. To be honest, it's actually daily. To be honest, we Americans don't get much of our news

outside of the U.S. borders. However, to each their own. For me, the more diverse, the better. Ree Brian Stewart and his weekly Tuesday Ukrainian information on the bridge. I hope you can keep that going if situations warrant it in Ukraine over your upcoming summer holidays. Yes, we've said if there is some major development on the Ukraine story, we'll probably find a way for Brian and I to get back on the air.

Where's this one from? It's Pierre Roy in Ottawa. I just listened yesterday to the More Butts No. 9 podcast. As is usual for your podcast, this one was both interesting and illuminating. I couldn't agree more with Mr. Moore's comments near the end of the podcast. I've felt the same now for some 20 years, increasingly so. As a society, we have become almost purely short-sighted,

and I believe this to be true throughout the Western world. Very few citizens are interested in anything long-term. Mr. Moore used the word tactical to describe our collective interests. Polls are a reflection of this. Personal economics are always the top concern of the voter. Anything else is secondary, and that seems to be regardless of disposable income. The message from the voter is you can't do whatever you want for the infrastructure improvements,

the environment, national defense, science, social support, civil security, but don't you dare increase my taxes. It's selfishness to the extreme. Trevor Seyfried in Calgary. Listen to your podcast where you compare the Republicans and conservatives in the UK. You reference how they handle leaders that are known liars. I did. Perhaps for me you can include the Liberal Party of Canada in that comparison.

They also seem to tolerate the known liar leader they currently have. While maybe not at the Trump level, Mr. Trudeau definitely has a complicated relationship with the truth, in addition to known loose ethics. Doesn't seem to have any consequences for him. All politicians lie, but they seem to do it more now than ever, I think. But maybe we just have more eyes and sources to catch them on it. I can't think of a resignation or firing of any politician

for lying in recent history. Well, that's pretty much why Boris Johnson got thrown out when you delve down into the depths of the issues

that were confronting him it all came down to a lie for Donald Trump he's just a liar he can't utter a sentence

as they say you always know when Donald Trump is lying because his lips are moving. James Duffy writes, For the record, I'm not a fan of Trudeau, and that is his own doing. When he first emerged onto the scene, I was apolitical, but thought he's young and maybe will bring some new energy to the job.

I also thought Mr. Singh sounded the smartest and perhaps the most well-spoken of the leaders back several years ago. I'm hugely disappointed with both of them. I do hope the majority of the riding voters come to the same conclusion next election. I can't even wish the majority of Canadians could come to the same conclusion because that happened last election,

but that isn't how our system works. That's a reference to the fact you can end up with the most votes, but not the most seats. Kevin Balmer from Moncton, New Brunswick. I've become a loyal listener over the past number of months, not because I agree with everything you say, but because you and your pundits always help me challenge my own biases and beliefs, and for that I thank you. I listened intently to the latest Brian Stewart episode and have to say how confusing this whole thing has become. When I search Western media, I hear endless stories about how stoic the Ukrainians are,

how aligned they are in their goal to defeat Russia, and how supportive they are of Vladimir Zelensky. If, on the other hand, I listen to overseas media, I get a very different story. I think Brian is telling us what he believes to be the truth. But I worry we're being fed a sanitized version of the facts. There's always spin in war information, and it's trying to cut through that spin that Brian is so good at.

Ed Hauser Black from London, Ontario. You mentioned you were asked the difference between Republicans and Conservatives in the UK. Republicans in the States, Conservatives in the UK. In my opinion, the difference is Conservatives in the UK can be shamed. Good answer. Frank Hedrickson gets our last letter of the day. He's writing from Nepean, Ontario.

And it's the nice kind of letter you'd like to read before the summer break. Many people have voted for their favorite bridge day, with Friday's good talk often coming out on top. Chantal is unequaled in her razor-sharp analysis. Man, I've been hearing that for 30 years. This season, you're making it really hard to pick a favorite. With the Moore-Butts conversations, Janice Stein, and surprise guests Mondays, Brian Stewart Tuesdays,

Brian is incredible, in brackets, and Random Ranter Thursdays. He never fails to make you think. That's the idea, right? you don't have to agree with them just think about the issue but for me smoke mirrors and the truth on wednesdays that's the one i look forward to most the easy flow of conversation between you and bruce lands it lends such a comfortable atmosphere to the program that you almost forget that you're listening to a podcast. I envision myself eavesdropping on a conversation between two friends over a couple of pints in the local pub.

I'm there and often interrupt the discussion with my own observations. That's the way we like it. Frank, that's the whole idea of SMT on Wednesdays, is to just try and have a conversation. Once again, you don't have to agree with it. You just have to listen and go, you know, that's actually not how I think. I think this and that or what have you. It's a discussion generator, if you wish.

All right, that's going to wrap it up for this day. For this, your turn, the last one of the season before the summer break. Hope you've enjoyed it. I've certainly enjoyed bringing your thoughts to you on your turn on Thursdays. Tomorrow, it's good talk. Chantel and Bruce will be here. We'll also be up on our YouTube channel for that program. Last of the season.

Hope you join us. It's been great talking with you. I'm Peter Mansbridge. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you again in 24 hours. Thank you.