The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Your Turn -- From Stratford to Buffalo to Ukraine, Your Thoughts on The Issues of the Day.

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

Not sure I've ever seen quite the same amount of reaction to a Bridge episode, as was seen by the combination of the Buffalo shootings and the story of one woman's fight against hate in Stratford, Ontario. Your thoughts on those topics dominate Your Turn this week.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. It's Thursday. Your turn is next. And hello there. Welcome to Thursday. I'm Peter Mansbridge in Toronto for this day. And that was a bit of a shocker last night, right? I guess some of you will say, oh yeah, it was obvious that was going to happen. Jason Kenney couldn't hold on to power in Alberta much longer. Personal power as premier, that is. Well, if that's what you were thinking you were right

because jason kenney has announced he's leaving after receiving a bare majority in the kind of leadership review vote that members of his party took in alberta he could have hung on but it would have been tough it would have been very difficult at whatever it was, 51%, 52%. But he said, no, he's leaving. So now the process of picking a new leader will take place, and it seems like he is going to remain as premier until that process unfolds, which could be interesting. Obviously, we'll talk about this tomorrow on Good talk with uh chantelle hebera and bruce anderson

but it is um you know it was a bit of a shocker everyone knew kenny was in trouble but was he in that much trouble well apparently he was okay this is as we said, this is Thursday. That means it's an opportunity to hear what you have to say about some of the pressing issues of the day, and there are lots of them. But I'll tell you, this week, I think more so than any other issue we've had, that includes COVID. There has been a flood of mail as a result, really of two things that sort of came together. One was the tragic story in Buffalo last weekend, Buffalo, New York.

But also on Monday on the bridge, there was a special show with a woman by the name of Carrie Weiford from Stratford, from where I live, where her kids go, that dealt with anti-Semitism, racism. And the fact that she took the initiative. for every kid in those particular grades, grades seven and eight in her school, to go to the local museum for an hour where there was an Anne Frank exhibit. And she arranged for that. The school teachers were all in on it. The local bus service was all in on it. Local government was all in on it. The local bus service was all in on it. Local government was all in on it.

And obviously the museum was all in on it. And her telling of the story has prompted a lot of reaction from different parts of our country. And in fact, outside of Canada. So I'm going to, as I said, there is a lot of mail on this subject. I read all the letters that come in. I don't run all of them on the air, but I run some of them to get a kind of reflection of what's being said. And there are varying opinions on these topics.

I don't read all of the letters. Some are quite lengthy, and I mean quite lengthy, but I'll tend to pick out a few sentences or maybe a paragraph from each and move on. So today there's a lot, and what I'm going to do is I'm basically just going to read them. In some cases, I may add a comment or two, but for the most part, I just want to let your words settle in terms of your feelings towards these two stories, because they are, as I said, in a way, kind of intermeshed.

They deal with hate, right? That's what both stories come down to. So let's get started. And once again, these are in no particular order. Malcolm Campbell writes from Minnesota, Manitoba. The latest mass killing in the U.S. is a sickening tragedy.

Downplaying the mental health aspect, when it blatantly looms so large in these circumstances, while blaming the trafficking of dangerous ideas, is in itself dangerous.

I myself have come across fringe writings and videos online and never have been compelled to commit atrocities. Freedom of speech is paramount in a democracy. Louis Martinez. Louis writes from Vancouver. And once again, these are just excerpts from these letters. Louis writes, We live with over 7.9 billion people on this planet, and we would have to be naive to think

we will have no human problems and incidences ever. So why are we so surprised when we hear a story that is shocking? Why are we all so shocked? In my 53 years on this planet, I've witnessed hate in books, magazines, movies, news, environment, video games. I agree it's getting worse, but we are all a product of our environment, and everyone is accountable. Robert Bjarnason from Carberry, Manitoba. Call me defeatist or realist, but after the slaughter of kindergarten students, gay nightclub patrons, Hispanic Walmart customers, a Bible study group in Philadelphia, music fans in Las Vegas, to mention a few,

there is no plausible solution or collective will to address the litany of mass shootings in America. The repetitious mass shootings and other hate crimes are tied together by fear, greed, and power. It's a vicious cycle of political inaction and societal weakness. Elected officials do nothing in an effort to maintain power and not upset the economic upside of social media platforms and the gun registry. Individuals who perceive their way of life, their power, and their privilege threatened resort to hate speech and hateful acts. This is further exasperated by some politicians stoking the flames of personal and political bias.

As I said, I'm just going to read these today for the most part. I'm not going to comment on them, but it's interesting. The theme that's run through some of these letters so far. Kevin Harlow from Winnipeg. This isn't a case of different or unpopular viewpoints on policy or social issues that deserve to be given due consideration, rather. They're rants with little to no basis in reality. What Kevin is talking about here

is some of the people who've been out demonstrating and protesting some with conspiracy theories. In particular, he points out the whole Jagmeet Singh episode in Peterborough, Ontario last week when he was harassed. And that's using a soft word to describe what happened, by a crowd of shouting protesters, ranking. So that's the context to Kevin saying, this isn't a case of different or unpopular viewpoints on policy or social issues that deserve to be given due consideration. Rather, they're rants with little to no basis in reality.

Our political discourse is only dragged down by this kind of talk and, in my view, can quite safely be set aside for, I don't know, maybe a best or the worst episode on April 1st each year. Kevin's suggesting that we don't give this discussion any oxygen. And I hear where he's coming from, and he's not alone in that feeling. I still think it's important to expose what's happening within our community and our society. Here's one directly on, and there were quite a few, on Carrie Reiford's story out of Stratford, Ontario.

And the attempt to kind of blunt issues of hate in her community. And it comes from Ian Hebblethwaite in Moncton, New Brunswick. You've heard from Ian before, but this is the first time I had a sense of what it is that Ian does. Thank you and your guests for today's episode on hate. I'm the chair of New Brunswick's Provincial Curriculum and Evaluation Advisory Council. And although I wish this had been seven days ago before our meeting last week, I'll be bringing up the issue, and the issue is the place on the curriculum for history on the Holocaust, among other things. I'll be bringing up this issue for discussion on its

place in New Brunswick secondary schools. Our next meeting is in the fall. Good luck with that, Ian. Gary and Cheryl Burchat in Wilno, Ontario. I was appalled how the small minority group from Peterborough addressed the leader of the NDP, Jagmeet Singh, as well as the people of the trucker convoy in Ottawa displaying flags with F Trudeau, as well as other flags bearing swastikas, etc. Social media is radicalizing the

younger generation of today. They feel that it is easy to humiliate or chastise someone, providing they are not looking them in the face. Zach Shalala from Moncton, New Brunswick. I'd like your opinion on the term woke, which some use to degrade people with progressive values. Oxford, the dictionary, added the word in 2017 with the definition alert to injustice in society, especially racism. So why is this a bad thing? It seems like name calling is the new norm in political discourse.

You know, Zach, that's only a bad thing. If you think it's a bad thing, right? As you say, the definition. I mean, woke is just some, you know, is a word that doesn't sound like one we've used before. And so it comes at you and, you know, you sort of either latch onto it. It's a good thing or it's a good thing or is a bad thing and certain critics on the

political spectrum have chosen to make it a bad thing and even though it simply means being alert to injustice in society especially racism that's on that sounds like something that you might want to embrace. Not trash. But Zach, we live in a strange world these days. Where sometimes black is white and white is black. Nathan Rollman writes, I'm a Stratfordite, born and raised. The Confederate flag flying, hateful people of this community

have truly taken on a bigger role than they deserve. And they are, let me just add, they are very much a minority, right? But they're present. They make us look bad, says Nathan, and have no place in this city. I respect what your guest is doing as my family came from Holland in the 50s after being part of the underground hiding jewish people it sickens me that people don't believe in the holocaust and what that did to so many once again it's a minority that don't believe but the issue is is that minority

growing because of a lack of understanding of what happened? Ian Hutchinson writes from Grey County, Ontario. Your guest from Stratford this week was excellent, and I agree completely with her. Free discourse on the subject and education is how we solve the problem. I fear that censorship will become involved, which will drive this conversation to a place where hateful ideas are not countered because there are no opposing viewpoints in the room when they are uttered. Peter and Margaret Coughlin from Kingston, Ontario. We moved here 29 years ago for career options and to raise our young family in a smaller community. We've become regular listeners to the bridge and have mastered the skill of downloading to our phone and then listening via Bluetooth while traveling together we were recently visiting our family on vancouver island and enjoyed several episodes as we moved from victoria to parksville and then tofino bc and what a what a great drive that is i've you know done it a couple of times. It's spectacular. If you ever get to Vancouver Island,

if you don't already live there, but if you ever get there, take a few days and make that drive. If you have to go to Victoria on business, Nanaimo, take the drive out to Tofino and Yuclulet on the west coast of Vancouver Island. It's gorgeous. These nationally focused podcasts are affirming as we travel about our country.

Like many people, we wonder how the public discourse has become so toxic and offensive and filled with deliberate misinformation. In recent podcasts, these changes were explored, and clearly there are many factors. However, like many, we think this is one of the most significant challenges in the coming months and years. How do we move forward in a way that can be inclusive and respectful for all Canadians? My spouse, as a retired teacher, wonders if an educational and learning approach will help. I'm less hopeful, and as noted, the balance of individual speech and censorship are complex. Completely abandoning the discussion seems like retreat and perhaps concession to those who shout most aggressively.

I'm writing only to suggest that continuing to find any reasonable path forward would likely be a welcome discussion for many. Peter and Margaret Coughlin. Coughlin or Coughlin? It's probably Coughlin. Here's a fellow who's written a few times before, Grand Bend, Ontario, Bill Chichart. And he writes a lengthy letter, as Bill often does. But I'm just going to read two lines near the end. I was stunned when you mentioned that for virtually all the provinces in Canada,

the Holocaust is not on the curriculum. But going back to my high school days, we studied Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice, where we learned the lesson that my high school friend illustrated in that WMHA basketball tournament. That was from earlier in his letter. We are all the same. We are all the same. Brian Dussault from Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta. I found it rather surprising to hear Kerry, that's Kerry Reifert from Stratford,

and she was the lady who we highlighted. If you haven't heard that Monday podcast, you really should tune into it. It's quite something. I found it rather surprising to hear Kerry say that Canada-wide, there is no mandated teaching about the Holocaust. But I think that is due to it not being explicitly stated in many curricula, rather than not being taught at all. I can speak for the Alberta curriculum that it is explicitly taught about in grade 11 social studies as a part of a focal point on ultra-nationalism. It's also often taught in English as well in that same year to connect the curricular outcomes using well-known

novels such as Night by Elie Wiesel and Mouse by Art Spiegelman, as well as a number of films and short stories. I suspect that it is a very similar case in other provinces and territories around Canada too. Okay, Brian and earlier Bill from Grand Bend. I guess the point that was being made is there is no mandated provincial-wide course in any province in the country on because of local school boards, there is, in certain districts, an obligation to teach the history of the Holocaust. So it's kind of a checkerboard Canada, in a sense, there. Some places, yes. Some places, no.

And the argument is, until it's uniform across the country, there are always going to be these issues. The same thing happens in the states. I think we discovered earlier this week that there are 22 states where it's mandated to be part of the curriculum, which means more than half the states don't have it. But in Canada, none of the provinces have it, although there are some provinces

that have made significant headway on this issue. But as a province-wide mandate, no. So a lot comes down to local school boards, and a lot comes down, as it always does, to teachers. And, you know, we're lucky in a country where we have so many dedicated teachers and nothing has shown that more than the last couple of years through COVID. but individual teachers can make decisions on what's in their file for teaching. And in many cases, that includes discussion about the Holocaust. Here's the last letter in this continuing vein of both the stratford story and the buffalo story and it comes from tc sang in vancouver bc

i noticed the difference in media coverage of shootings in buffalo and Orange County, California. While the media has no issue characterizing Buffalo, the Buffalo shooting, a white person shooting black people as a hate crime, the Orange County shooting, a Chinese American shooting a Taiwanese American, doesn't get the same treatment. Now, TC throws that out as a challenge in many ways to the media. And a challenge to the media on fair and equitable coverage is absolutely the correct thing to be doing on many different situations. I'm not sure I agree with you on this one, TC. I'll tell you why. The enormity of the Buffalo situation and everything from the horror

of it to the numbers of people involved and to the manifesto of the clearly disturbed person who was involved in this, deranged, disturbed, versus the incident in Orange County.

Now, here's where I disagree with you. It got coverage. It got a lot of coverage in the responsible media, partly because of Buffalo. There was a lot of attention given to it in the 24 hours immediately after it happened. Did it continue on through the week like the Buffalo story, the President of the United States visiting Buffalo, speaking, talking to the families? No, it didn't. Should it have?

That's debatable. And I'm sure you clearly have your opinions but to say it wasn't covered or to suggest it wasn't covered that would be inaccurate because it was um and i you know saw lots of stuff last sund morning and Monday morning on CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC. CBC mentioned it, didn't have a reporter there, but certainly talked about it. But the American channels gave it a lot of coverage on the immediate day after it had happened. But, you know, I think TC's point, and it can be brought up at times, the inequity of coverage on certain issues where it looks like, you know, this is pretty much the same kind of thing.

Why is one getting much more attention than the other? That's always a good discussion to have. Okay, we're going to take a break. Come back with letters on other topics, and there's a bunch of them. But thank you for what we've heard so far. Back in a moment and welcome back peter mansbridge in toronto you're listening to the bridge the thursday edition the kind of your turn mailbag edition your thoughts ideas comments on some of the stories of the day you're listening on on Sirius XM, Channel 167, Canada Talks,

or on your favorite podcast platform. Back to your letters. And these are on a variety of different topics, okay? So I'm just going to whip through them here. Cindy Beattie writes, people have commented that your guests lean more to the left. I have a family member who is very conservative, and I have come to the realization that she sees anybody to the left of her political outlook as left-leaning.

From her perspective, way over there on the right, even someone who would see themselves as a centrist is a lefty liberal socialist. It's a good point, Cindy. That is the case. It's also, the reverse is true also, right? Those on the kind of far left often see anybody to the right of them, even centrists, as right-wingers.

Good point. Xavi Couser from Montreal. Peter, I'm curious about how Ukraine has used media to address and influence the world outside its borders and how our governments have interacted with this strategy. Can you ask Brian Stewart to pull back the curtain, give some insight on their strategy? For example, Zelensky's humble videos,

Bono and Angelina Jolie visiting Ukraine, all the memes about Ukrainian farmers and their tractors. It can't all be spontaneous and disconnected, can it? Well, of course it hasn't been, and we've kind of pointed this out many times since the beginning of this conflict that they have the ukrainians and the zelensky group that surrounds him have got excellent pr smarts they've influenced the way the world has looked at this conflict from the beginning and they've encouraged journalists from around the world to come, celebrities from around

the world to come, politicians and political leaders from around the world to come, knowing that every time one of them comes, it's another bump for them on their side of the story. So they're no fools, and whoever may or may not be advising them on their PR strategy deserves whatever they're making. Chris Harding writes from Ellerhaus, Nova Scotia. I've been listening to The Bridge for about 18 months now, usually on the drive into work. I'm loving it and all the knowledgeable, insightful guests you have on.

One in particular is Brian Stewart which brings me to the point of my email I received your book off the record for Christmas thoroughly enjoyed it and I have a question that you could perhaps pass along to Brian when can we expect an off the record style book from him he must have so many interesting stories to tell. From all his years in the field. It could possibly even rival your book on the bestsellers list. Oh, just a minute. Let's not get carried away.

Just kidding. I have been trying to convince Brian for years, if not decades, to write his story. I'm party to knowing a lot of his anecdotes from the field, and they are fantastic. And his argument is, oh, you know, like, who cares about what happened to me? And I say, they care. They love listening to you, and they would love reading your story. So I keep pushing him. We'll see if it ever is successful.

Maybe I'll just start telling his stories anyway. Maybe I'll write a book about Brian. I tell you this. He has had an amazing life so far. Dr. Jennifer Ingram writes in. man, she's passionate about this. I'm a geriatric medicine specialist, one of about 350 in Canada, providing care to seniors with complex health and memory problems is our focus. When multiple medical illnesses or memory loss onsets,

our patients and families repeatedly request help to stay at home, surrounded by those they know and trust. Avoidance of long-term care or nursing home admission is always the plea, but the isolation of staying home is a constant challenge. Our home care system has become irrelevant for those with chronic illness or daily needs. Modifying our system of health care in the community requires overhaul of our priorities without changing all the good parts of hospital-based acute care. As a senior, as a physician, as an Alzheimer's specialist, and as a community leader, I hope the bridge will be able to discuss the future of health care

impacted by the coming of advanced age of the baby boomers. Dr. Ingram in Peterborough, Ontario. Dr. Ingram, I hear you. We have touched on this about a year and a half ago. I was part of a panel, moderated a panel in downtown Toronto with a number of experts and advocates on the aging care issue. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't revisit. And let me give that some thought about how we might do that. Trevor Seyfried in Calgary, Alberta.

I'm not here to tell you that climate change is not a serious issue. Further, I believe your opinions that Alberta politicians don't take it seriously are off base. I'm not sure we were that general in our description of Alberta politicians, but certainly some don't take it seriously, just as some don't take it seriously in other parts of the country. The issue here is not if, but how the issue is dealt with. Alberta's beef is that the current solutions proposed are not congruent with the Constitution. There is a path forward. It's just not the top-down approach these liberals like to employ on so many things.

They should respect jurisdiction and come to an equitable solution via consultation with the provinces. If not, why have confederation? Alberta is fiercely protective of jurisdiction and its economy and always has been. And if the feds want to wade into these areas, they must do so above board. And it matters. Like Bill C-69, they may need to give something up, likely giving Alberta some of the money we send to Ottawa back. Okay, Trevor. I hear you. It's a familiar refrain that I've heard for years, including

from my father, who was Chief Deputy Minister of Health in Peter Lougheed's government in Alberta. I remember almost the phrasing is almost exact from what you've said to what he used to say to me. Deborah Zaks in Ottawa. Lots of good points raised in the discussion on Ukraine and Russia you had earlier this week with Brian Seward. But I cringed each time I heard the conversation gravitate to who might win and who might lose. I think by now we all know that war never produces winners and losers. It's only a question of who lost the least. Even if Ukraine eventually drives back the Russians, and I don't have a crystal ball to predict this, but Ukraine has already lost. They have lost lives, families, industries, cities, transportation networks, economies, and talented citizens who have fled the country and may never return because they have nothing to return to.

Joe Henschel. Peter, you congratulated, this is history, believe me. You congratulated the hockey fans in Edmonton for the win the Oilers had in game six of round one, forcing a seventh game. Well, I'm sure hockey fans in Edmonton thank you. What about the many Oilers fans outside the city of Edmonton? We're everywhere. Joe's in Calgary.

That must make life tough. Great first game in round two of Calgary-Edmonton last night. That was a shootout. We don't see that kind of a shootout very often in the Stanley Cup. That was amazing. Joe ended his letter, as I said.

This is history. Wouldn't a Leafs-Oilers-Stanley Cup final be amazing? Yeah, maybe. Good luck waiting for that. Two letters left. Terry Ruth Icefeld. Port McNeil, BC. Soon to be

Onaway, Alberta. I really enjoyed all the discussions including today's on the topic of the monarchy. I don't see the relevance past Her Majesty. This was just yesterday. I have a couple of questions. How many tax dollars per year are used to sustain

our connection to the Crown, and what would it look like without it? Well, in terms of money, probably not as much as you think, but every time there's a visit, Canada kicks in on the coverage of that visit, in flights, in security. So, you know, Charles is roaming around Canada right now. You're paying for part of that. What would things look like without the monarchy?

Well, that's going to be the discussion and the debate the country may have when the time is right. And we all know what that's called for. But it would look different than it looks today. Here's your last letter. And it circles us back to the beginning of today's program. And the story surrounding Carrie Reifert's appearance on the bridge on Monday and her stories of the issues in the school system on the teaching of the Holocaust. Derek Dillabo.

Derek writes from Ottawa. I'm going to read the whole letter. It's not that long. But I sometimes do this with the last letter of the podcast on Thursdays. Derek writes, I believe the episode with Kerry, he says Kerry Bradshaw, it's actually Kerry Reifert,

who runs a store called Bradshaw's. I believe the episode with Carrie will strike a chord with many people who listen to your podcast. Everyone's spirit needs uplifting with so many things to despair. And that story proves that there is hope when you plant the seeds of kindness. Hate is born and propagated through ignorance, and she's so right to recognize that education and understanding is the antidote to hate in all forms. Everyone can take Carrie's example in their everyday lives

and spread their own seeds of kindness because it is so infectious when it starts to spread. Holding a door for someone, a smile in an elevator, letting someone in a lane in traffic, asking a server how their day is going. A hundred seeds can be spread in one day in many ways. A friend told me a story a few days ago how he missed a bus after running to catch it

and a stranger stopped and offered a ride. He could barely contain himself explaining it to me, and he will never forget that small favor. You can be sure he will pass that on to someone else somewhere in some way many times over. And so will I. Carrie is planting seeds like so many other good people in this country, and I encourage all your listeners to do so as well. It makes your life richer, your days happier, and crowds out feelings of hate. Your podcast is successful because of its sincerity and fairness, and the seeds it is planting.

Thanks, Derek. Very kind letter. Derek Dillabo from Ottawa. All right, that wraps it up for this week's Your Turn. As I've said many times before, I always enjoy hearing from you and it's always great to get such a reflection of different moods and feelings around the issues of the day from across the country.

So thanks for the time many of you spent this week in writing in. As I said, there were two or three times more than that, but we only have room for so much.

Thanks for your thoughts. All right'm peter mansbridge this has been the bridge for thursday your turn thanks so much for listening we'll be back tomorrow with good talk chantilly bear in montreal and bruce anderson uh who i think has at least one more week if if not two, in Scotland, but connected into the stories of the day. And as I mentioned at the top of the program, we'll certainly be talking a little bit about the Jason Kenney shocker from Alberta last night.

All right, that's it for today. I'm Peter Mansbridge. Thanks again for listening. Talk to you again in 24 hours.