The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Your Turn On The Politics of The Lie

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

Lots of letters this week reacting to The Moore Butts Conversation #8 which focused on the power in politics of the lie.  You have some pretty strong feelings on this issue and also on the passport issue that surfaced last week.  And then there's our regular Thursday feature, the Random Ranter.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. Thursday, your turn, and your turn on the politics of the lie. Coming right up. And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here in Stratford, Ontario, and always look forward to Thursdays. Thursdays is my opportunity to hear what you have to say on some of the issues we've been discussing through the week, and sometimes on issues we haven't been discussing through the week. Also, Thursday means the Random Renter. And he has an interesting take today on something, well, something that affects us all. So we'll get to that in just a little while.

But let's get started with your turn, your letters, your mail, your thoughts, your ideas, your questions about, often they are about the week gone by. So we get started with Garth Wilson. And here's what he has to say. More and Butts did it again, a cerebral conversation that not only led to quiet introspection but prompted me to speak out again. The idea that the public square is

filling with toxic sludge, albeit at a lesser rate than our southern neighbor, is still concerning, as the bottom line is sludge. It's sludge. My worry is that Trump's playbook is real around the world and has given rise to bad political actors that utilize a highly motivated and discontented fringe to build a base that will indeed cast votes. This, coupled with the apathy to politics in general, means we live in a very dangerous time where results could come down to which slim fraction casts a ballot, and that might ultimately put a wolf at the head of the table more and more. When a president twice impeached, indicted on fraud charges,

and convicted of sexual assault still has traction, we should all worry. Albert Versteeg writes, and this is, once again, there's a lot of letters here about the Moorbutts conversation. It was on Monday, conversation number eight, and this one was on the politics of the lie, spurred on by that town hall that Trump did last week in the U.S. Albert Versteeg writes, as usual, this edition of the Moore-Butts talks was excellent. One observation I have about lying and fact-checking that, in my opinion, the media sometimes practices, lying by omission.

During this talk, both the Globe and Mail and the CBC were mentioned. Both organizations are pushing the Chinese interference story relentlessly, an almost daily push for a national inquiry. However, one would be hard-pressed to find a story on the need to stop the leaks in our security apparatus. Well, we've talked about that on the bridge, as you well know. Last week on Good Talk, we talked a bit about it. Deb Broomfield from Owen Sound, Ontario. Deb writes, I very much enjoyed the Moor Butts podcast over the past months.

As you pointed out, the one this week took the conversation to another level. It's interesting and heartening to hear two people from different political backgrounds discuss topics in an intelligent and interesting manner. Our current politicians could learn so much from these discourses. I think people would be less negative about the politics in this country if they presented the way Moore and Butts do. By the way, if you didn't hear it, it was a really good conversation. It was on the Monday podcast.

You can go back and get it. It's titled More Butts, Number 8, The Politics of the Lie. Not everybody liked it. Arlene O'Connell writes, I really enjoyed the More Butts conversation, Number 8, but when I heard the topic, I was expecting a discussion around the russian collusion hoax after the final durham report was released was not the biggest lie

of all that well first of all the moor butts conversation came before the durham report came out and i'm sorry arlene i would arlene and i have been back and forth on this in mail, but the Durham report was a total bust. If you were a Trump supporter and hoping for some kind of vindication from Durham, you didn't get it. He said nothing illegal took place. He was a special prosecutor. He could have charged people. He's already charged two people before and lost both cases convincingly. But he didn't charge anybody here out of his report. He spent four years, 300 pages, I'm sure millions of dollars, and came to the conclusion that nothing illegal had happened.

And not only that, he concluded that the Clinton campaign hadn't done anything illegal back in the 2016 campaign. So I don't know what you wanted out of the Durham report, but if you were hoping that you were going to get a whitewash for Trump, you didn't get it. Anyway, other points that Arlene makes. Didn't most of the media empires spread the lie? She feels the lie was the Russian collusion with the Trump campaign. If it was a lie, why did people

plead guilty and go to jail over it? Including the campaign manager for Trump. Anyway, obviously we agreed to disagree. But nevertheless, Arlene does like the Moribuds conversation. B.R. Ravishankar in Ottawa the first half of More Butts was fascinating an assessment of the American political scene that I hadn't heard before that people voted for Trump despite his shenanigans

because they knew that it is all theatre that's quite worrisome here's another aspect that is worrisome in Canada. What if those supporters of Pierre Palliev in Canada also know that his behavior is just theater? What is the likelihood of enough people in Canada believing that and voting for him, his party, leading to Pierre Palliev as prime minister?

Does the Canadian political system foster such a phenomenon? Good questions. Sandra Thomas from Peterborough, Ontario. I was interested in the discussion of Trump's blatant lies and how they lead in the distrust of public institutions that hold our society together. I totally agree. Once we stop trusting in anything,

how do we move forward together? Can institutions be improved and should they be held accountable? Absolutely. I wonder what the answers would have been had you asked about the Canadian current political climate. I see one particular party leader

constantly denigrating and casting doubt on our institutions. Fire the Bank of Canada governor. Defund the CBC. I find this approach dangerous. Ask questions. Seek improvement. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

John Moreland from Port Wade, Nova Scotia. This is what John has to say. I'm just reading part, in all these letters, I usually just read a couple of sentences from them. It's rare that I'd read the whole letter. John Moreland from Port Wade, Nova Scotia writes, a couple of things struck me during this enlightening and forthright discussion. First, and this is the part I'm going to read,

despite CNN apologists' defense that viewers need to be reminded of who Trump is, wasn't there a way that didn't result in hosting a Trump rally? Also, how could anybody forget Trump? When a news model depends on ratings, this disaster is inevitable. It was a disaster. You know, CNN had a, you know, not bad audience that night. It wasn't overwhelming. So like 3 million in cable news numbers, that's usually enough to win the night, but it's not like some 20 million.

It was20 million. It was $3 million. Translate that to Canadian, you know, 10 times roughly, that's $300,000. It's not a big deal. T.C. Sang in Vancouver. In respect to the most recent Moore-Butts conversation, I thought it was a great insight into the art of the lie. But I think you and the two guests didn't really get into two things.

One, the moderates of both political parties in the U.S. have over 20 years to deal with the problems with everyday Americans, and neither did a good job in solving them. Two, which is related to the previous point, Donald Trump's the symptom, not the cause of today's problem in American politics. Marty Robinson is in Red Deer, Alberta. This week they spoke extensively,

we're talking more about extensively on the presence of continuous lying in today's politics, especially as it pertains to Donald Trump. I felt their hopeful solutions to prevent similar lying behavior to infiltrate Canadian politics were well-reasoned. But I would like to know if anyone has mentioned this solution to you. If a politician lies, I mean knowingly lies, about anything during their term as a representative for during a campaign, why can't this be against the law? Freedom of speech is very important and I support it to a degree more than most, but my feeling is if a politician lies to get elected or to stay elected, this is tant town amount to fraud. They are benefiting from their lies and may in turn be hurting others. Just a thought,

and I was wondering if anyone has mentioned it before, I would hold media members responsible in a similar manner if they are lying to get better ratings. Okay. Will Robertson. I'm not sure, Will. I think Will is writing from New Brunswick, isn't it? Area code 506. Is that New Brunswick? I'm not sure. Love the Moorbutts conversation this week. Some really good food for thought there. I'm a younger politico and

wrote my honors thesis on social media's impact on truth and politics in 2022. I wrote my thesis focused on the work of Hannah Arendt, who spent a great deal of time in the mid-20th century on the question of truth and politics. I really recommend reading her essay on lying in politics, written in reaction to the Pentagon Papers. That was 60s, right? 60s, early 70s. Reading her thinking 50 years later now, in the context of Trump and the degradation of fact in Western democracies, is rather terrifying. But having the dialogue about it is key. So I greatly appreciate the conversation on the podcast this week.

Thank you. Please do carry on this dialogue in the future, and I'm sure we will. I don't think lying seems to be going away anytime soon. Mark Seaton from Lakeside, Ontario. On this lovely spring day, I just finished listening to the latest podcast where the politics of the lie was discussed. As a retired school principal, I was heart warmed and cheered loudly when Mr. Butts raised our Canadian public education sector. our way of allowing all Canadians the opportunity to critically think and rationally allow good debate and thought to flourish as a check and balance to what is happening south of the border. Thank you for this excellent podcast. Well, thank you, Mark. And I encourage you,

if you haven't listened to it, it's a really good discussion. It was Monday on the bridge. It was called the Politics of the Lie. The More Butts Conversation, number eight. Here's the last letter on this. Oh no, it's not the last. There's a couple left. David Prime in Ottawa. I found the Oh no. wait a minute. This one's on artificial intelligence. And we had a couple on that.

So let me read them. I found the discussion, this was yesterday, remember, on Smoke, Mirrors, and the Truth. We talked a little bit about AI, and some of the feelings that it's time to, you know, put a pause on AI development, discuss regulation. David Prime in Ottawa writes, It's hard to predict where this will all lead, other than it will be more and more difficult to discern fact from misinformation.

In terms of our politics, what I'm confident in predicting is that when compromising audio or video services, such as has been the case recently with Danielle Smith or further back with Trudeau's blackface pictures, we can expect the response to be, it's not real, it's been doctored, and the partisan sides will become even further entrenched. Although I don't think in either of those two examples you gave us, that either side suggested that.

But I hear what you're saying. Doug Clark from Castlegar, BC. Good discussion with Bruce on AI I perked up my ears when he said AI should be programmed with a bias towards good Isaac Asimov was prescient when he wrote the three laws of robotics 70 years ago They should be programmed into all AI development.

I'll have to reread that, the three laws of robotics. I suggest we all do. The other big topic of the week was kind of a throwaway we did in Good Talk last Friday. We started off on it because it was, you know, and I'll concede, it was a bit of clickbait on the passport issue. But we all, you know, we had our feelings about it, but we all kind of dismissed it as a one-day wonder,

and it's kind of proven to be that, a one-day wonder, though, that will linger for certain people. And it will kind of be out there, and it'll be used in campaigns. We know that. So did we all, I don't know, some of you were mad that we even discussed it. I don't know. I don't have a problem discussing it. I think it is one of those things that provokes discussion.

And it certainly did to many of you who wrote in, so let me read a few of those letters. Ian Chikio from Calgary. I can't help but wonder why this government did not take the opportunity to move forward with reconciliation. Why did they not fill the new passport with images from and about the First Nations of Canada? The buffalo hunt, trading with settlers, treaties, heroes.

This would not only be a history lesson for most Canadians, but would be also fascinating for our neighbors abroad. I don't know how many of your neighbors abroad look at your passport. I mean, the guys do at the, and the women do at the passport control in various countries, but beyond that, who looks at it?

Sheila Four from Ottawa. Even if you like one set of designs over another, it's an irrelevant issue. The designs are there for passport security, not to teach Canadians history. Don't our political leaders have more important things to talk about? Anne-Marie Klein. I have never looked at the inside pages of my passport except to remember various trips by the stamps that filled them.

I've kept all my passports since 1987 and couldn't have told you a thing about the differences in design features over the years until I pulled them all out after listening to your show tonight. Surprise! Every issued passport from 1987 until 2017 has nothing but two variations on a maple leaf design. How did I ever know my history before then, you might ask?

I love that. You know, as I've often said, the bridge is here to provoke you to think about stuff, to study stuff, to perhaps even go to your vault of old passports and open them up and see what was inside them and bring back memories quite apart from the designs inside. I do this. I have the same thing. I have every passport I've ever had back from, you know, when I was a kid.

And I do occasionally, rarely, maybe once every couple of years, I'll see the pile, I'll go through them, I'll look through them and it will bring back past memories, past stories past places, past acquaintances it's a great thing to do, I strongly recommend especially for young people with their first or second passport that they keep them doesn't really enter the discussion on this debate about passports, but I think it's something to keep in mind.

Gareth Rurak from Ottawa. A quick story from my last trip to Germany. I arrived on a flight from Edinburgh to Berlin, and the border guard stopped and looked at my passport and told me he always loved seeing a Canadian passport because of how beautiful the security features are and seeing all the maple leaves shining under the black light. It made me appreciate the little things that can make a difference for an otherwise mundane travel document. Sure, Garth.

Actually, what he was doing was he was punching up in his computer going through your past to see who you really were, what you were really up to. I don't know. Just kidding. I'm sure what he told you was the truth. Colleen Linus from North Grenville, Ontario. I might have expected a brief reference to the so-called controversy that has erupted over the new Canadian passport design, but the weight given Pierre Palliev's comments

were frankly surprising and disappointing. What about all those kids whose parents can't afford international travel? However, do those poor children learn Canadian history? Or what about the people who have the current passport yet can't name a single picture found within its pages, myself included? Thank goodness I'm old enough to have learned the old-fashioned way through attending the public school system, visiting museums, and reading books. Heather Surs from Richmond Hill, Ontario. My thoughts on the passport change are short and sweet

It's ridiculous One, I had to go look at my passport to see what the outrage was all about Two, I walked away outraged at the outrage I didn't know there were pictures Okay I didn't know there were pictures. Okay. Okay. I like the line about, aren't there real issues to discuss? Well, sure there are.

And we all know what they are. They all involve us in some level. The passport story is what it is and it is what it was when we talked about it a week ago. We didn't dwell on it. It was a one hour program of good talk and I think, I don't know, what did we spend, seven or eight minutes on it? It was a provocation to get you to think.

And it's nice to know so many of you did, even if many of you thought, what the heck are you doing that for? It's a non-issue. It's a nothing burger. It's whatever phrase you want to use. Although some of you also had some thoughts on it that went beyond that. All right. You know what Thursday is, aside from your letters,

and we've got many more of them to go. It's also time for the Random Ranter. So let's hear what he has to say on this Thursday edition of Your Turn. Here he comes, our friend, the random renter. We're all familiar with bubbles, and I'm not talking suds. I'm talking market bubbles. Think real estate or the dot-com crash. Now think bigger,

much bigger, because I think civilization could be living in a giant bubble of our own consumption. And it's a huge problem. We use too much. And if you're wondering what I mean by too much, I mean too much of everything. Food, water, land, resources, you name it, and we use too much of it. And we've got a solid track record of using it until it's pretty much done. And then we react all shocked like we never saw it coming. But using it all? Pushing the limit? That's the whole point of it, right? Fishermen don't want lower limits. Farmers aren't looking for lower yields. Nobody makes a product and then hopes to sell less of it. Everybody wants more because we've all got bills to pay. Let's face it, all our consumption? Well, it doesn't come cheap. We need to sell more to buy more. It's a vicious circle of more and more and more and more. And that's what makes

our world go round. I mean, it's not enough that a corporation makes a billion dollars. Next year, they need to make more or they're a failure. But all that more, it takes resources. And that's a problem because our demand for resources is expanding faster than the Earth's ability to replenish them. Hence the bubble we're living in. But if you don't believe me, then look up July 27th. That's this year's Earth Overshoot Day. The day that we use up all the resources the Earth is able to generate for the whole year.

Every day after that, we'll pucker up and blow. Because you're in the bubble now now and it's not getting any better. The first Earth Overshoot Day was Christmas 1971, and it's been downhill ever since. But you know, it's not just the resources we're using up. It's the way we're using them. Agricultural biodiversity is on the decline, leaving our food chain at risk. We use copious amounts of freshwater for everything from irrigation to the estimated 2,600 gallons it takes to produce a single pair of blue jeans. We do ourselves no favor. At every turn, we pollute the air, we pollute the water, we pollute the ocean, and we pollute the land. And there are some disturbing patterns to it that don't give me a lot of hope.

I mean, we've been arguing about climate change for at least 30 years, but there are still deniers not only out there, but getting elected to government. And it doesn't stop at that, because when we finally do something about our consumption of, say, oil, we look to replace it with something even less sustainable, like lithium. We seem to like to trade one problem for another. Think about it. When we finally wised up to plastic being a problem, someone came up with the idea of recycling it. I'm guessing that was the plastic manufacturers, because recycling, we do a terrible job with it. Don't believe me? Well, here's some facts. Only 9% of our plastic gets recycled. And in Canada, we throw away over 3 million tons of it every year. Meanwhile, plastic consumption, it's quadrupled in the last 30 years.

You heard me right. Quadrupled. Now, I don't want to be all dark on this bubble talk, because the one thing I always keep in mind is that every generation, at some point, thinks the world's going to end on their watch. We seem to live with the sword of Damocles hanging over our heads, even at the best of times, yet humanity always seems to find some way past it. I don't know if that makes us like cockroaches or Timexes, but our constant consumption of everything and anything, it needs to stop.

Because if we keep consuming like there's no tomorrow, we just might be right. Hear that noise in the background? I hear it. It's the sound of a keyboard. Many keyboards. As some of you start writing right away. I just heard the ranter.

And I think, boom. You know what? I love it when that happens. Because that is the ranter's purpose. It's to get you to think. And to get you to think and to get you to respond and react as he throws out his little tidbits on various subjects. That's the thing about the ranter. It doesn't, whatever the week brings,

he's bound to bring something in you hadn't even thought about. Well, there he is today. Okay, we have more letters from you on various topics, and we're going to get to them. But first, it's time for one of those little breaks. So we'll be back right after this. And welcome back. You're listening to Your Turn on the Bridge. It's our Thursday episode that included the random ranter who we just heard.

You're listening on Sirius XM, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. However you're listening, we're glad you're with us. I'm Peter Mansbridge. I'm in Stratford, Ontario today and enjoying reading your letters. So let's get to some more of them. This one comes from Albert Lynch in Suris, Manitoba. I'm 69, but it's not so long ago I remember the Liberals giving the cities a good amount of money. That was guaranteed into the future, so their plans wouldn't get messed up by changing provincial or federal governments. The housing solutions do have to come from city councils that understand what the problems really are,

and then they can work on fixes for the future, while the symptoms can be handled separately. Renee Switzer from Roberts Creek, B.C. Your end bit about the amount of stuff floating around in space made me think about the mess we humans have made of the environment here on Earth. I didn't think about what might be happening to the solar system. We don't learn. Instead of spending gazillions of dollars on space exploration

and sending satellites to the priority for all scientists, we should be putting the Earth back to a healthy condition. Instead, it seems like we are messing up the solar system as well. What a sad state of affairs. Don Mitchell in Ottawa. The way Parliament is supposed to work, and this section of your turn is really a potpourri of letters. It could be about any topic.

Back to Don's note, the way Parliament is supposed to work is that the Prime Minister and his or her Cabinet is where solidarity is to be enforced, and if a Cabinet member doesn't like a decision, they can shut up or resign. Backbench MPs should not be held to that standard, and the only times they should be whipped is for money or confidence motions

Backbench MPs, no matter what their political stripe should have the freedom to question cabinet publicly and hold them to account If cabinet has done their homework and are sure of their position they should be able to defend it publicly I agree with that, Don and are sure of their position, they should be able to defend it publicly. I agree with that, Don.

Unfortunately, that's not the way our system currently works. It doesn't mean it shouldn't, but it just isn't working that way at the moment, no matter which party's in power. Scott Young writes from Yellowknife. Like many places around the country, especially Alberta, we are presently experiencing forest fires and floods. There is currently a forest fire burning out of control in the town of Hay River, Northwest Territories. Or sorry, Hay River, is that in Nunavut?

I'm not sure. And the town has been evacuated. There's flooding in Fort McPherson, and that community is under a state of emergency. Both communities are at risk or losing their livelihoods. CBC North's morning shows, The Trailbreaker and The No noon hour show, Northwind, are using their platforms to get information out to the residents and the public.

Telling people where to go for shelter, where to go for food and clothing, where to get financial assistance, providing phone numbers and addresses. It's a means of communications in an emergency. The elders in these communities do not own cell phones, computers, or tablets. They listen to local radio programs, sometimes in their own language. Don't take that away from them.

It's their lifeline. Daniel Deschamps. We mentioned a study by the Pew Research Company, I think it was just yesterday, and we talked about how, you know, parts of the Far East, countries in the Far East, are much more likely to embrace change than countries in North America or Europe. And it was interesting, we listed it, and Singapore was one of them. So Daniel writes, I've traveled to Singapore and China in the past. Singapore, though, is not what I would call forward thinking.

They just hung someone for possession of cannabis. I know when you visit Singapore, they include a stern warning page that if you get caught with drugs, you'll be up for the death penalty. This, I would think, is more of a backwards way of life. They copied the Ontario education curriculum a few years back. I wonder how they feel about Canadians and our legalizing of cannabis. Yeah, I wonder. James Gone. James is in Toronto. Your end bit about the four-day work week for teachers in parts of the States

grabbed my attention and you hypothesized that it might be in the works in Canada somewhere. Well, I'm here to tell you it's already here, sort of. My girlfriend is a licensed teacher in Ontario. Currently, she works for a private tutoring company, which just last year implemented a four-day work week. They added an hour to the other four days of the week to accommodate all the students coming for tutoring. She hates working late, but she really loves her three-day weekends. Gives her an extra day to

run errands and then relax for two days straight. Ian Hamburg in Brandon, Manitoba. On your NBIT Tuesday, you reported that American public schools are proposing a four-day week. This begs the question, does this include private schools? I think not. For further erosion of public school education in the U.S. does not bode well for the future.

Did I not hear Jerry Butts on Monday's podcast, and I paraphrase, that Canada's public education system is a bulwark against division and threats against democracy. Let's not go down that road of shortening instruction time. Kirsten Apple, or Kirsten Appel. I live in West Kootenay. That's in BC. Although our local district did not adopt the four-day school week,

a neighboring one did, Grand Forks, and has had it for at least 10 years. I believe, although I don't remember the specifics, that it means an increase of about 20 minutes to the other days, Monday to Thursday. You might contact them for stats of how successful it has been, although I've heard no news of them having weaker scores. From a parent perspective, there's one advantage that I wish my

children had had this four-day week, and that is for high-end sports or the arts, like music. My children probably miss two out of four Fridays to get to competition. Always a chore keeping up with school, particularly at the senior levels. I hear that students in the neighboring district love that advantage. Jerry McDonald writes from Grand Prairie, Alberta, and I plead guilty on this even before I start reading it, but now I'll start reading it. Twice this week, you've referred to the incumbent governing party in Alberta as progressive conservatives. Nothing could be further from the truth. The United Conservative Party, or UCP,

is a far more doctrinaire, ideologically right-wing conservative party than the old Alberta PC's. It was formed in a merger that was similar in concept to the Federal Reform Alliance and PCs merger in the early 2000s to form the modern Conservative Party of Canada, and it is even more right-wing than the Polyev-led CPC federally. Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking, Jerry. I was like in a mind warp or something. But of course, it's the UCP and has been for a couple of years now.

Not the PCs. Now PCs, you go back, it was Peter Lougheed and Ralph Klein and others. It is not that old PC party anymore. David Garofsky in London, Ontario. Here's what David has to say to me. I'm just a couple of years younger than you, Peter, but unfortunately, some people would refer to us as seniors. I don't know if nightmares are a common thing with seniors. It's been a long time since I've had one. But the other night, I guess I was moaning and groaning and tossing and turning,

so much so that my wife woke me up and asked me what was wrong. And all I could say was, Mansbridge is going to throw his support behind the Blue Jays now. I guess this is a shot at how the Leafs bombed in the second round. And that I'd be searching around for something to do, seeing as the Leafs weren't around to watch. You know, I mean, I could watch those four teams from Southern United States who are playing for the hockey championship of the world. I mean, what would our foremothers and forefathers have thought to know that Las Vegas and Dallas and Florida and Carolina

were in the Stanley Cup finals, or the quarterfinals or the semifinals or whatever it is now. I mean, who cares? Because the Leafs aren't there. Oilers aren't there. But, David, you're right. I was watching the Blue Jays last night. What a comeback victory.

What a victory. Well, it wasn't a comeback, but it was a greatly pitched game by both sides until the 10th inning when the Blue Jays got a three-run homer to win it all on a walk-off win. Okay, here's the final letter. It's a nice one. Valerie Gibo.

Or G-bot. Or G-bot. Valerie's from Waterloo, Ontario. The other day you were talking about truckers listening to you and how they see this vast country on their drives. My son, who's 54, is rollerblading across Canada to raise funds

and awareness of people with mental health. He has bipolar disorder. I am his 82-year-old mother and have been driving him for the past three weeks, starting in Whistler on May the 1st, this being Mental Health Month. Finished line is Newfoundland. Talk about seeing the country. While I can't compare myself to the truck drivers, I am getting a whole new perspective of our beautiful country, meeting some fascinating people.

A lot of them are immigrants, of course. Generally, we find that people are friendly and generous, giving cash to us sometimes. I download your podcast each evening, and it definitely helps me get through the days of driving between 15 to 20 kilometers a day following my son Thank you Peter for continuing to contribute to the enjoyment of so many Canadians

Hope to hear you read this while I'm driving There you go Valerie. Keep your eyes on the road. But that was your letter. And it was great to read it. And the images you gave us of your cross-country tour already were quite something. Drive safe. Best to your son. Take care. And I hope you continue to meet Canadians who care, which seems to be what you're meeting along the highway. Okay.

Let me just check one thing, because it came up a few moments ago, and I didn't have the answer to it, right? And that was, because I know if I don't do this now, you will, I'll be getting letters. And that is Hay River, right? And is it in Northwest Territoriesories or is it in Nunavut? So, of course, I start to pull up stories on Hay River. It's in Northwest Territories, I think.

Yes. I think. Yes. I should have known that. That was on my initial instinct, but I got kind of, I got kind of fooled by the, the way it was written in that CBC story. But we have fixed that now have we not?

all these stories that I'm reading say Northwest Territories okay that's going to wrap it up for this day tomorrow it's good talk Chantel will be by Bruce will be by.

You can listen, obviously, on SiriusXM, channel 167, or you can download us as a podcast, or you can watch us on our YouTube channel.

And once again, there are lots of comments on the YouTube site. They're just not a part of your turn. If you want to be included in your turn you should write to themanswitchpodcasts at gmail.com and you need to include your name

your full name and where you're writing from because it gives that sense of the country right that's what you've just heard over the last you know 40 minutes or so a sense of the country at least a sense on the part of the listeners who listen to our program and what they're thinking about some of the subjects.

So I love to include where they're running from. People say, well, you don't make the random renter say who he is. Well, I know who he is, and that's what's important to me. And it is, okay, it's kind of a little bit of a gimmick, but I've said he's from Western Canada. He's just a guy. He's just a guy with a good job, happy family, likes to travel, is not affiliated in any way with any party.

He just speaks from the heart, speaks from the soul, tells us what he thinks, as he did today. All right, that's it. Enough mumbling, Peter. Get out of town, man. We'll see you tomorrow for Good Talk. I'm Peter Mansbridge. Thanks for listening.

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