The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Your Turn - So How Do You Really Feel About The Convoy?

Episode Date: February 3, 2022

A busy week in the Your Turn department, dozens and dozens of letters, mostly to do with the so-called "freedom" convoy and listeners haven't been shy. But also comments about electric vehicles and the pandemic make the list.  

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. It's Thursday, your turn, and let me tell Ontario, with your turn for this week on the bridge. And before we get there, and there were a lot of letters this week, before we get there, a couple of things. First of all, yesterday, as you know, was quite the day in Ottawa in terms of politics. Aaron O'Toole, gone at high noon in the nation's capital, voted out by his own party in a very significant, overwhelming vote. I mean, there was no ifs, ands, or buts on this one. He was gone when that vote count was announced. We're going to talk about that and all the fallout from it and what happens next tomorrow on Good Talk with Chantal Hebera and Bruce Anderson. The fallout is still continuing today.

A lot of things are going to change in the next hours of this day. And so that's why we're going to wait till tomorrow to do the big substantive discussion on what happens next for the conservative party and how it affects, well, how it affects everyone, all the parties and the people. So that's tomorrow on Good Talk. But I'll tell you, the overwhelming majority of letters this week, they weren't about Aaron O'Toole. They were about the protest in Ottawa, and they came from across the country.

And we'll get to those in a few moments. The other thing that happens in the next, well, in the next 24 hours is the Olympics opens in Beijing. Now, it's been a very controversial Olympics. A number of countries, including Canada, have a diplomatic boycott. In other words, not sending any diplomats to the games. The athletes are going. They're under incredible COVID protocols and many of them are not happy about the way that's playing out. But at some point, the games will begin and they will be the games.

And as long as they're not totally destroyed by issues surrounding the pandemic, people will watch. It's the Winter Olympics, as we used to call them. And I guess still do in some ways, but it's not going to be the kind of hockey we expected with NHL players. But hey, they're Canadians. And Canadians turn up big in hockey tournaments,

as we've witnessed over the last year. So it'll be interesting to watch how this team of almost NHLers or former NHLers plays at the Olympics. This is a tough job for journalists to cover the Olympics this year because, one, COVID, two, China. So I want to give you a sense of some of the, not rules, but some of the guidelines that journalists are using going into Beijing to cover these games.

I was at the 2008 Games, the Summer Olympics in Beijing. It was a different time, different era, but it was still China. So some of these rules applied then, guidelines, but they certainly do today. Journalists are looking at these. Leave your devices at home, your current ones. Instead, wipe an old phone. We all have old phones. And an old laptop, and many of us have old laptops.

Or purchase new ones just for the trip. Create a work email specifically for the trip. Create a work email specifically for the trip. Assume your hotel room is under surveillance. There was nothing new about that in China. I remember the first time I went to China was 1976, so long ago that Mao was still alive. But he was in his final days, and there was an enormous power struggle going on in the background, most of which we didn't know about, some of which we did, and the parts that we did involved Deng Xiaoping, who was at that point being re-educated. In other words, he was in jail,

because he was seen as a threat, not to Mao directly, but to Mao's successors who were his wife. At least that's what she was planning, the Gang of Four. She wanted to succeed Mao when he died. Deng Xiaoping was in jail. But nobody really knew where he was or what was happening. And so one of the reasons I was in China as a correspondent was to try and get some details on that.

So I remember the night we flew into Beijing, right there in the middle of the night. There'd been a dust storm. We get down to the hotel, and we'd been warned, you know, assume that anything that goes on in your hotel room, the Chinese are going to know about it. There's surveillance. Audio, and one assumes video surveillance as well

in your hotel room. And so you sort of say, okay, fine. But, you know, I've still got a job to do. And one of the things I had to do was report. At that point, I was working for CBC Radio. And I reported that night over the telephone, you know, voice report, on what little I'd been able to find out

on arrival in Beijing with various, you know, Canadian diplomats and others that I talked to about the status of Deng Xiaoping. So I did a report. I wrote a report in my room. I put it on the phone, and I sent it into The World at Six or The World at Eight, whichever show was running that piece. So then I went to bed, and I got like three or four hours sleep, got up, came down to have breakfast.

And our minder, in other words, the Chinese government official who'd been assigned to be with us anytime we stepped outside of the hotel, he sits down beside me, looks at me, and he says, it's Deng Xiaoping. You pronounced it Teng Xiaoping, which was a not-so-subtle way way of saying we're listening to everything you say. So that hasn't changed in the many years since 1976. Assume your hotel room is under surveillance.

Keep your devices with you and avoid leaving them unattended anywhere. These are more of these guidelines. Wipe all devices on your return. Some people go to the extra mile. You know, if you've got a microwave in your room, they put the device in the microwave. Don't turn it on. Just put it in there. Close the door. Or put it in the freezer of a fridge if you have a fridge in your room. A couple of other ones.

Back up everything you might need first before you leave. Delete all inessential apps and services. Install or update essential apps and services immediately before travel to make sure you have the latest software check your phone and mobile internet service to make sure that it's going to work in china there's no guarantees on that so you want to make sure of that before you go anyway i thought you'd find that interesting because suddenly tomorrow we're going to be inundated with stuff from Beijing. And you can keep that in mind when you're watching reports, whatever network you follow, whatever newspaper you read or internet service you subscribe to. Keep in mind that those are some of the conditions

journalists who are writing all those stories are under. So it's the next two weeks, the Olympics. Who knows how that story will unfold. Okay, let's get to your mail. And as usual, there is so much this week, I'm just literally lifting sentences, paragraphs out of different letters. Let's take a run at all the so-called freedom

convoy stuff. I can tell you that more than 90%, 95% of the mail I got this week were people who were upset, not happy, of what was happening in Ottawa in terms of the so-called freedom convoy. And they don't understand, you know, some people who were at these rallies who clearly don't have a mean bone in their body.

They just believe on the vaccine issue and the vaccine mandate issue. They're against it. What many of the letter writers can't understand is how, once they got there and saw who they were surrounded by, and when there were flags with swastikas on them and other Nazi symbolism, when there were people chanting obscene slogans, and not just chanting them, writing them on their trucks, how they allowed themselves to get caught up in that. But I can tell you any sympathy that at least the letter writers to this podcast and broadcast have had at the very beginning of this protest has evaporated since, because I don't get any letters like that anymore.

Anyway, here we go. Ron Fisher writes from Barry. I'm not really one to share this sort of thing, but as the son of two Dutch immigrants that survived occupied Holland during World War II, I found this poignant given some of the comments and images used at the truckers rally. These great Canadians risked their lives and bodies to free people they didn't even know an ocean away, and some never came home. Those greatest Canadians

gave their all for freedom, and these people at the Truckers Rally won't even get a little shot for their friends and neighbors to help keep us all safe and take the strain off of our overburdened hospital system and heroic health care workers. To make it even worse, they have the audacity to co-op words like freedom, holocaust, and oppression to describe their demonstration while glorifying the Spostika flag and SS symbolism. Then, if that was not enough, they literally urinated and danced on the graves of all those that died to give them their right to do so. Yes, all those things happened, and they happened, one assumes, by a small minority of those who were there, but that small minority became the majority in terms of the image and the vision of what was going on in that rally

and what continues to go on in that rally. Neil Douglas Fraser in Edmonton. I don't want to sound like I'm sewing all conservatives in the same cloth because I'm aware there is differing opinions throughout the party, but if the conservative governments in power do not denounce this fascistic neo-Nazi rhetoric displayed during the protests, that makes them no different than the Republican Party in the United States ignoring the truth of January 6, 2021. Cale Nicholson, I think, is somewhere in the southern Ontario region, based on his cell phone.

Regardless of one's politics, I think this weekend's events have further illustrated, talking about last weekend in Ottawa and continuing on, I think the events in Ottawa have further illustrated how divided a country we have become over the last decade. A question I'm hoping you can pose to your experts is how to overcome this at the parliamentary level in ottawa and kale has some ideas on that and uh you know maybe i'll throw them at bruce and chantelle tomorrow on good talk

spencer stinson in blenheim ontario can you ask bruce how he really feels? I think that's based on yesterday. Bruce got quite hot. Bruce lives in Ottawa. He has family in Ottawa. He has children in Ottawa. And he was upset. However, Spencer Simpson says, I couldn't agree with him more. They've made their point in Ottawa, even though the grounds are ludicrous. 250 people remain that are protesting measures

put in place to protect them and their fellow citizens. Doesn't make any sense to me. That 250 figure was last night, so I don't know what it's like, what the count is today. Phil Weiner from Hamilton. The Ottawa protests and the way the police there are responding on the front line reminds me very quickly of the Caledonia conflicts

that have been happening over the last 10 years or so. That's in southwestern Ontario, and it's around a First Nations issue. The OPP took a very hands-off position in all of those years, and it was always very perplexing to me why they took that position. Stood by on many occasions to let the events play out with no arrests

and obviously to avoid any violence or conflict on the front line. In Ottawa, $800,000 a day out of the public purses for security, for police protection, or whatever it's being called, is just totally unbelievable. But no doubt the money is being spent. And with no ongoing positive results, if I consider a positive result to be respect and orderly conduct by the protesters.

Nancy Shipman writes, and she lives in Ottawa, it would be interesting to know what medical professionals have to say about the impacts of blaring horns 18 hours a day. And these are those air horns that the trucks have. And it's non-stop. I'm telling you, it's non-stop for 18 hours a day in that core area, which is not just offices. There's condos, there's residences in that area.

What do medical professionals have to say about that? Because it's something that can't be escaped. Together with the stress that has been endured by residents in Centretown, many have not left their homes since last Friday. Who knows how this will end, but it sure begs a lot of questions. Maybe we should start with the definition of a protest. This is not what we're seeing. This is more like an occupation or a siege. How protests can be carried out needs defining too, to ensure that right is honored while ensuring the rights of the rest of us are safeguarded. Shauna Bertram writes from Climax, Saskatchewan.

The one issue I'm hoping that you, Chantelle and Bruce, can comment on is the image of the press. I'm from southern Saskatchewan and the opinions surrounding the media, at least in this area, are toxic to say the least. The network that seems to be getting the worst of it is CBC. Their coverage of the 2022 truck convoy appears to have struck some chords. The opinion that appears prevalent here is that the CBC makes up all these bad issues surrounding the truckers and other protesters in this rally in order to make them look bad to the rest of Canada, and that CBC refuses to report the actual truth.

CTV and Global are also included in this circle. However, CBC seems to get the worst of it. I'm certain that this isn't a new issue for news networks, but it does make it very difficult to trust what is being reported, regardless of the source. I would appreciate it if you could share your thoughts and experiences with this issue. Sure, Shauna, I can. First of all, as somebody who lived in Saskatchewan

And Manitoba And British Columbia I know how intense the feelings get around some things Especially about the media and central Canadian bias As is seen by some And about the CBC And I don't have a problem with you focusing on the CBC. CBC is a national broadcaster.

National public broadcaster. And you spend more than a billion dollars a year in tax on the CBC. So you have every right to raise questions. And I have every right, as a former employee of the CBC for half a century to tell you that the CBC does focus on the truth. And I'm sorry if some people in southern Saskatchewan, and I assume elsewhere, feel that the media has torqued this story against the tracking protest. I'm sorry if that's the way you feel. The fact is the media has been reporting what's been going on in Ottawa. In some areas of the media where opinion is allowed, whether it's in newspapers or

commentary on television or radio programs you'll hear strong opinions and you may challenge some of those opinions and the facts that are used in some of those opinions but on the news i believe and still believe that coverage is based on the truth. This is what happened. They didn't make up the story about somebody dancing on the tomb of the unknown soldier. They didn't make up the story about people urinating on the National War Memorial. They didn't make up the story about protesters demanding free food from shelters.

They didn't make up the story about some protesters swarming inside the hotels without masks and demanding service. Those things happened. And so did, you just have to look at the pictures, the way the trucks have been decorated with slogans, some obscene, where flags, some flags, not the majority of flags, but some flags that were dominant in the images,

that were surrounding areas where officials, officials, where organizers were talking, that had racist slogans on them, that had swastikas and Nazi symbolism. Those happened. That wasn't made up. Now, did they focus enough on the attempts by some protesters in the days following those initial incidents to try and make up for it by doing some of the cleanup by helping out in food banks maybe not maybe they didn't focus enough on that. But what they did focus on happened.

It was the truth. And it cost these protesters a lot of support for the right to protest. Not necessarily the causes they were arguing for, but the right to have that ability to argue. Karen Boshy. See, I told you there were a lot of letters on this protest, right? Karen Boshy from Edmonton.

Watching what's happened in this country over the past week with disappointment and disillusionment, I'm realizing that these alternative non-conformist beliefs and views are much stronger and closer to home than I want them to be. The irrational, vile, and threatening behaviors have been quite shocking. I can't help thinking, what is all of this teaching our children? This has been such a hard time for children and youth. What are they learning from and about our society? The saying, the flowers of tomorrow are in the seeds of today, comes to mind. What will these seeds grow into? And here's the last one on the protest rally before we move on to other topics that you wanted to raise. Dawn Stone from Edmonton writes,

I'm over the top disgusted and angered with how this crisis in our capital is being handled and dealt with by politicians and police. People are being held prisoners in their homes and fearful having to go out. We watch on our TVs and listen on our radios to what is happening to them

and their neighborhood. If the police are incapable of doing their jobs, it's time to call in the Army and not allow another weekend for this to continue. Okay. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, more of your thoughts and letters and questions and comments

on the Your Turn edition of The Bridge. And welcome back. Peter Mansbridge here in Stratford, Ontario. You're listening to The Bridge on Sirius XM Canada, Channel 167, Canada Talks, and on your favorite podcast platform. And wherever you're listening from, we're glad you're with us. More of your letters. Okay, let's see what this one's about.

Kurt Christie from Guelph, Ontario. I have a question that perhaps you or one of your expert guests could answer or discuss why does the U.S. and Russia not agree to have Ukraine become a neutral nation like Switzerland thereby eliminating the Russian fear that Ukraine might join NATO perhaps then Switzerland Ukraine and others could form a federation of neutral nations further promoting world peace. Might work for Taiwan, too, as the U.S. and China slowly drift towards war over that situation.

Well, it's an interesting thought, Kurt. I mean, first of all, it's not the U.S. and Russia's decision whether Ukraine wants to declare neutrality. It's Ukraine's decision, right? Have they thought about this? I'm not sure. Maybe they don't want to be neutral. Maybe they want to take a stand about their own independence and they're willing to defend that stand.

But as you suggest, I may very well ask one of our experts on that. Benjamin Pakalik, St. Albert, Alberta. In your recent episodes of Good Talk, you all often refer to Stockwell Day and the Canadian Alliance Reform Party days when analyzing the state of the Conservative Party

with Aaron O'Toole, the former leader. I'm only 21, but the political scene was always a talking point around my house. However, I've never heard mention of Stockwell Day or the Reform Party. I also did not find quite enough information online to clearly understand the details. I was wondering if you could give a brief explanation for all of us younger listeners about Stockwell Day and how the situation resembles that of Mr. O'Toole's. I understand, however, that you are very busy. Listen, I'm shocked.

I'm stunned that as a resident of Alberta, you've never heard of the Reform Party or Stockwell Day? Here's the, you know, the mini, mini version of history. The Conservative Party used to be called the Progressive, at the federal level, used to be called the Progressive Conservative Party. However, some members of that party felt it was too, it was too close to an image of the Liberal Party. And that it wasn't far enough right of the center on the political spectrum.

And they tried to push for that to happen within the old PC party. It didn't happen, so it split. That birthed the Reform Party in the late 80s, early 90s, under Preston Manning. And they won a lot of seats, mainly in Western Canada. And it split the Conservatives. And that Conservative Party was done like dinner through the 90s. Remember Brian Mulroney's party?

After he resigned, Kim Campbell took over, and in the 93 election, they came back from a majority position of over 180 seats. They only won two seats. The Reform won, I can't remember the exact number, but a lot. They weren't the opposition. The Bloc Québécois was the opposition, but the Reform Party was close

and eventually became the opposition. But they realized that through the Chrétien years that they were always going to be in opposition at best. They would never form government because the two center or center-right parties had split. And the last leader of that alliance on the reform side was Stockwell Day

under a party called the Canadian Alliance. It didn't last long. Lost an election. Stephen Harper came along with Peter McKay and united the old conservative brand and eventually they became government so there's your very basic history lesson there but we're witnessing the same kind of thing happening now i mean listen as badly as aaron o'toole lost yesterday,

he still had 35% of the vote in his favor. And you're going to have to look at that and try to determine, and that's what people will be trying to do today, so I'll be looking forward to talking about it tomorrow, about how much of that was kind of a right-left within the Conservative Party split. And what does it mean for the future? Marty Zylstra in Maple Ridge, BC. I'm sorry, Marty, if I got that pronunciation wrong. This is on electric vehicles.

We had a big show the other day on this, and there's a lot of mail on that program. Although I'm a big supporter of VVs and climate change initiatives, I feel the best solution to solving the climate change crisis is planting trees. There have been a number of recent studies showing that trees are able to transfer carbon into soil extremely effectively and can store carbon in the soil essentially locking it in forever or until the trees are cut down in other words plant one tree per person per year of life and you solve the crisis electric vehicles are only a very very small part of the equation. That's Marty's view. Bale Building in Halifax.

Some additional info for your recent EV podcast, Tesla is introducing a newer, longer range battery. Batteries are one of the issues here, right? Called a 4680, which may have a range of 700 to 900 kilometers per charge for its vehicles. Tesla and their battery division do have a Canadian connection. Jeff Dawn with Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia has been part of Tesla's battery research program. I'm still trying to find an answer as to how governments are going to replace the lost gas tax revenue to pay for these roads that we drive on good question uh jeff bamford writes i'm glad you brought up the topic of electric vehicles on today's podcast the discussion did hit relevant talking points regarding charging manufacture,

battery life, and grid capacity, which are all interesting. Respectfully, though, the big talking points were not included. The EV can only be considered a green, sustainable, environmentally conscious solution if the source of charging is the same. The majority of our grid is fueled by fossil fuel and nuclear. If everyone goes EV, the grid works overtime and its emissions rise proportionately. This does not achieve the green solution we're being incorrectly informed of.

Recycling of lithium batteries is difficult and scarce. How will that be on the environment? The mining of raw materials for batteries is massively destructive the third world countries and is as unsustainable as fossil fuel i'm all for environmental stewardship i'm certified in sustainable building design and solar pv design although i believe they are putting the carriage in front of the horse as far as EV goes. Here's one from Michael Patton in Edmonton. A lot of mail from Alberta this week, which is great. Hi, Peter.

Is it me or has the Neil Young versus Spotify and Joe Rogan story gotten more attention than it deserves? It's the first time it's been mentioned, I think, on this broadcast. Neil Young has never been shy about taking a stance. He sure hasn't. Joe Rogan has been in the news a number of times related to COVID misinformation over the past couple of years. Nothing about this story should be surprising, yet this story has legs. Do you have any insights why this particular news item is getting so much attention?

Well, stories with celebrities in it do tend to get attention in certain elements of the media. And this is one of those examples. But it's also dealing with a multi-million, multi-billion dollar industry, the streaming of music. And it wasn't just Neil Young, as we've seen other artists like Joni Mitchell and others have kind of got on board this, you know, Spotify do something about disinformation train.

So, you know, I think it's worthy of reporting. And obviously for some it's worthy of discussion. So far, until your letter arrived, Michaelael it hasn't been on this program um when we did our housing show with preet banerjee i guess last week there was a lot of reaction to it last week people loved hearing the story about what's going on in the housing business but like anything you can't touch on every angle but one of the things Preet mentioned was about the story in Berlin. Well, as you know, the bridge has a worldwide audience. And our Berlin listeners were listening.

And Glenn Lee wrote from Berlin. This is a complicated city. It can't be compared to Canadian cities. Almost the entire city is a mass of vast apartment blocks with houses around the outside. People just don't commute here. They want to live within 20 minutes or less from work. So they rent or try to rent. If they were willing to commute,

pressure on apartment rents would be less. If you have 3 million people wanting to live a few stops from work or able to ride their bike to work that creates a pressure cooker on getting a place near downtown so as much as i agreed with your guests and he made some brilliant points that's preet we got our down payment for the bomd Breit called it, the bank of mom and dad, for example, Berlin cannot be compared to Canadian city experience. It's the hipsters at the tech companies, I'm one, says Glenn, that has brought the pressure on housing here, not the big corporate rental companies.

Brenda Davies was not happy with me on the last two Mondays. Hi, Peter. I'm a new listener in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, also enjoying your book since I also lived through most of your stories. One comment, and that book's called Off the Record, on the bestseller list for the last four months. One comment about today's podcast, I have nothing against American football, but did you not think that even a mention of the fact that Canada beat the USA yesterday in soccer would have been a nice positive note after the horrible Ottawa stories we're watching.

Let's celebrate Canada when we can. Go Canada's national soccer team. And that's from Brenda Davies, a retired public health nurse. Now, Brenda, you're right. I probably should have given a nod. I mean, it's still the preliminaries in this attempt for Canada to get to the World Cup in Qatar. And we're all on board in hoping that happens.

And there was more good news last night, right? They beat Honduras 2-0 in this same kind of series of games that will lead to some countries making it to Qatar while others don't. And right now, Canada is in a terrific position. They haven't lost a game in these rounds, and they're on top of the standings. But it's not over yet. So support is something we should give. So, Brenda, you're right about that.

Okay, last two letters. This one's from Glenn Duncan. Where is Glenn from? I'm not sure. Well, I think he's in southern Ontario. I'm asking you how we the majority of canadians can show our support for our federal and provincial governments stand on vaccinations social distancing measures and the concern they have for us versus the continued coverage and support of some political individuals for the small minority who are locking down Ottawa citizens and Albertans blocking the

U.S.-Canadian border. Within my own circle of business associates and friends who during this time are following vaccination policies to protect ourselves, our families, and our local communities and continue to keep our heads down, work hard to keep our careers, and support our economy and families. We support and believe in Canada, and above all, the freedoms that our country continues to offer us. We're all tired of the small minorities infringing our rights to work, live and get on with it, our lives in socially conscious ways, respecting ourselves and the people we interact with.

Well, how can you make your stand? You make your stand by supporting the policies you believe in. And you also make your stand by respecting the rights of the minority position to make their case. Not in the way we saw some do in Ottawa and continue to do in Ottawa today, but the fact that they have the right to make a stand, you should respect that too.

But I think we all understand how frustrating these times are. Here's the last one. It's from New Hamburg, Ontario, which is a little community that's not far from here in Stratford. It's kind of roughly halfway between here and Waterloo, Kitchener, Cambridge. This comes from Mary Lou Algar. And it's in answer to the program we did the other day that was headlined, Are We Losing Our Resolve in the Fight on the Pandemic?

I have not lost my resolve, and I'm ready to go to the next mile. I'm double vaxxed, boosted, and had the flu shot. It's been two and a half years since I've seen my family in person, which includes a young grandchild who heads off to kindergarten next fall in B.C. Visiting them would entail a five-hour flight to Vancouver. Primarily, I was not prepared to put my family at risk. They were doing everything to keep themselves safe, as was I. I've refrained from dining out and in-person visits with friends, especially those with other health issues, worn a mask, kept the two meter distance. I'm weary for certain. I

actually welcome the news that what I was feeling had a name, languishing. I had such good intentions of using this time to expand my knowledge, skills, hobbies, etc. Some of that has happened, but not to the extent it could have. However, I am concerned that those who have lost their resolve will stop wearing masks, gather in large groups, and resume their pre-COVID lives. Well, I think we all hope that there is going to come a point when we can resume our pre-COVID lives, but we're not there yet. And I think Mary Lou certainly understands that, and she's hoping her fellow Canadians will as well. All right.

As I said, lots of letters this week, and it's great to have lots of letters, and it's great to hear from so many new people as we did this week. So keep that in mind in the weeks that follow, and keep in mind tomorrow. Good talk. Chantelle Hebert in Montreal, Bruce Anderson in Ottawa, that in mind in the weeks that follow and keep in mind tomorrow yeah good talk shantelli bear in montreal bruce anderson in ottawa and there's lots to talk about tomorrow and we will i'm peter mansbridge this has been the bridge for this thursday thanks so much for listening we'll talk

to you again in 24 hours.