The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Your Turn -- The Great Fake Christmas Tree Debate

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

Hard to believe at a time with so many issues facing Canadians that the number one topic in your letters this week was the claim that 77 percent of Xmas trees sold in the USA this year are artificial trees. Your thoughts on that seem to indicate you agree with the direction of tree purchases, plus lots of comments about the latest Moore Butts conversation which we aired on Tuesday. And of course the random Ranter -- this week again on housing and specifically, affordable land.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. The hottest topic in your letters this week for your turn? Fake Christmas trees. Really? Go figure. That's coming right up. And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here in Toronto. You know, I love your turn. I've told you this many times before. I love Thursdays because I get to hear what your feelings are about certain issues. What's on your mind?

Well, I've got to tell you, I'm surprised after a week of some pretty heavy-duty stuff, whether it was the Middle East, whether it was the Moore-Butts conversation on Tuesday about polling, whether it was Bruce yesterday on Smoke Mirrors and the Truth and our discussions about a variety of different things. No, what caught your attention, at least in terms of the most letters that came in this week, was an end bit from, was it Monday? I think it was Monday. Where I had an end bit on fake Christmas trees,

a piece in the New York Times. They'd done a big, huge survey on American attitudes towards Christmas trees. And they found that in 77% of homes where there was at least one tree, it was a fake Christmas tree. And I thought, you know, how sad is that? And hearkened back to the days when the only thing around was real Christmas trees. Didn't have fake Christmas trees back in the 50s. You had real ones and it was a real family deal. And you'd go out and find a tree. And there used to be lots about every block or every couple of blocks that sell Christmas trees.

And they would be like, you know, under a buck. And now we live in an era where there are, you know, the Christmas trees in a box that come, you know, you put them up in about two minutes and they already have the lights and abs and baubles on them but you know a lot of people saying that's the way to go it's a lot less messy you don't have all those needles all over the floor i can't believe i'm talking about this but this is what you wanted to talk about you wanted to talk about. You wanted to talk about Christmas cheese. Here we are, the number one

political podcast in Canada, according to the Apple rankings. And our issue is fake Christmas trees. Today, anyway. Mind you, we are, what, 10 days from Christmas? 11 days? I guess it's on our minds. And, you know, going around the country in the last 10 days, here comes the plug for the book, going around the country for the last 10 days, talking about how Canada works, new book by myself, Mark Bulgich,

number four on the bestseller list, three weeks in a row, so that's great. Up against some real stiff competition, like my pal Rick Mercer, Geddy Lee, the late Matthew Perry. But we're in there, we're in the game. Anyway, going around the country and seeing

how the country was getting ready for Christmas. You know, there's a lot of issues out there, inflation, high food costs, and climate change, polarization of the political parties, all of that. But people were getting ready for a little holiday. And some fantastic light displays in communities right across the country that I saw. Which brings me to the letters. Jeff Ford writes from Waterloo, Ontario.

I listened to your comments today about fake Christmas trees. My wife and I bought our fake tree in 2007. The attached picture, a lot of people sent in pictures, the attached picture shows that it has stood up remarkably well. And we receive many comments on how nice and real it looks. It would seem that our purchase was well worth it. I guess you could say we are now ahead of the game. Thank you for your excellent show. We have been listening to it from the beginning, and we're always better informed about the issues of the day for having listened. Well, thank you, Jeff.

Shannon Bradley Green in Cochrane, Alberta. My husband, Brian, and I enjoyed your book talk in Calgary last week. That's great. Thank you. We're constant podcast listeners. Absolutely, a real Christmas tree, with all the traditions that go with it is a big part of our Christmas. We have a grandson who will turn two this weekend and watching him gently touch the ornaments and be thrilled by the train going around beneath is my best Christmas memory already. Look at that, how you can in in one sentence, create a picture.

We can all imagine, Shannon, that what your tree must look like and how your two-year-old is under it, looking at the train, the ornaments, all of that. Laura. Laura. Laura Travosi in Blue Mountains, Ontario. I wonder if the New York Times could maybe have included the negative impact of the artificial trees that don't get sold. Each year there are new trees with new lights,

new types of shapes, colors, and needles. Each year I hear people say, I want a new fake tree because of upgrades and design. But what about those that don't get sold? Where do they go? Must have thousands across North America alone that end up in the dump. Not to mention the energy it would take to make the trees that just end up in the trash. What are the numbers of people who actually keep their trees long enough for this all to be environmentally beneficial? I switched to a real tree years ago because of the environmental benefits and

supporting local farmers. I, like your family, will only ever have a real tree from now on. Christmas has become at least a month-long experience. The tree chopping starts our season off just right, and a fun day of family, sometimes friends, bonding. I would recommend Drysdale Tree Farm, best experience, and our most beautiful tree we've had yet. I always love your podcast. Sad to hear about Ukraine and the Middle East.

It's definitely a difficult time for many, but this information really upsets me. Keep up the good work, guiding us daily with positive, well-educated, informed guests. Thank you for your work. Thank you, Laura. Barry Hoffman.

So sorry, Laura. Barry Hoffman. So sorry, Cynthia. This is a reference to my wife, who will have nothing to do with artificial trees. Sorry, Cynthia, but artificial tree here. As a former paper maker, the real ones are for pulping, but only after they've contributed to air quality. Another nice picture. Barb Demaree in Vancouver.

I loved your little end bit on Christmas trees. I'm the apparent 77% of people who have an artificial tree and have had one for 30 plus years. The last real tree we had dropped so many needles by the time we took it down, there were needles everywhere, and I seem to recall picking them up for weeks after. The first artificial tree we bought lasted 20 years, so I was relieved to learn that after eight years, we broke even with real trees with respect to the environmental factor. I recently moved into an apartment and bought a little mini artificial tree, which I hope to have for at least eight years. I love that. I can safely keep it up throughout the whole Christmas season. Don Dufour from Ottawa.

Your Christmas tree end bit made me chuckle. I'm a transition person. Die hard, only a real tree person back in my single days in Toronto. And then once a mom of two small children here in Ottawa some 25 years ago, a hardcore fake-all-the-way person. Don't get me wrong, I loved the adventure of the hunt, decoration, gorgeous smell, and ambiance in the Toronto townhouse every year when my schedule was comprised of career, the gym, and my social life. Of course, only a real tree would do.

However, once parenthood settled in, my early 40s with two lovely kids aged 20 months apart, the thrill of the fake tree overtook my sensibilities, and we've had the same $200 tree from the old White Rose Nursery on Bank Street, Sonata, for 25 years. I think we've helped the environment. Our cost basis is less than $10 a year, and when we put it up 10 days ago, my lovely husband uttered the words, it's just like a real tree, still dropping its needles after all these years. It's by no means a poor, thin Charlie Brown tree,

nor is it a pre-lit Costco special. It can be put up and fully decorated within one hour, and we still love it to this day. Necessity, indeed, was the mother of this transition for our family. All the best, this lovely season to you, your family, and the bridge staff. And she goes, LOL, I know it's a one-man show. You got it. And our resident comedian here at the bridge,

Gus Livingston in Dunville, Ontario. Here's what he has to say. The other day you were mentioning fake Christmas trees and their growing popularity. Well, I have nothing against fake Christmas trees, as long as I can pay for them all with counterfeit money. Oh, Gus. You're such a... such a joker.

And yes, that was a sip of my coffee for those who have very sensitive headphones. All right, that's enough on the Christmas trees. You know who hasn't on the Christmas trees. You know who hasn't talked about Christmas trees? The ranter. The ranter hasn't talked about Christmas trees, and he's not going to talk about them today. But we are going to get to him in just a moment after we hear from Karen Boshy, a retired teacher in Edmonton.

Karen's written a few times over the last couple of years. It's always great to hear from Karen. Here's what she has to say, and it's in relation to, well, we talked about it yesterday, the latest of the various housing plans that the government is putting forward. And this one is a back-to-the-future idea. It's going back and looking at the post-war housing boom in Canada and how the government pushed the whole idea of smaller houses,

and we've been over this a couple of times. The ranter was the first to mention it back in September as an idea that they should consider, and clearly they have. But Karen writes, and this is just part of her letter, yes, affordable, modest, but adequate family housing can be mass-produced in a relatively short time. It was already done decades ago, post-war. Finally, the voice of housing reason that many of us have shared has been spoken.

The old adage is, hindsight is 20-20, you don't need to reinvent the wheel, and don't fix what ain't broke comes to mind. Perhaps the different levels of government can work together and run with this lightbulb moment idea. Well, we can hope. Which brings me to the ranter for this week. Remember, it was the ranter who in September, and I think it was September 7th, go back and listen to the edition, where he first brought up this idea of the post-war housing, how it was so important to what became the baby boom age.

Smaller houses, etc., etc. So now the government is saying, offering up the blueprints from that era. But the ranter says, you know, there's something we've got to consider here in terms of this plan. So let's bring him on. Let's bring him on stage, the random ranter.

Remember, for those of you who are new listeners, and I've noticed that there are a lot of actual new listeners in these, well, last couple of months, really. And it's great to have you on board with the bridge. The Ranter, we don't name him. We've given him anonymity, partly as, you know, an incentive. It's partly not for him, but for us. It's kind of, it's okay. It's a bit of a gimmick. But the whole idea is, I know who it is, but you don't. I've given certain clues. He's from Western Canada. We kind of narrowed it down to he's from the prairies.

And he has those prairie sensibilities. He's a straight shooter. He's not a political type. He doesn't belong to any of the parties. He doesn't work for any of the parties. He follows politics, as you will know, having listened to him over time, those of you who have. And he always has lots of thoughts and ideas about the current situation

and current issues. As he does today, here he is, the Random Renter. I gotta say, it's pretty brilliant of the government to offer a catalog of pre-approved housing plans and blueprints for free to fast-track house building. It allows the government to influence the size and efficiency of new homes without having to legislate a single thing. Done right, it could even lead to more use of prefabricated components. Maybe it could even lead to something like a modern version of the mail-order homes the Sears cataloged offered once upon a time. I know this is possible as I'm speaking from experience. My first job was actually delivering pre-fabbed cottages. All the trusses, joists, and walls were

built in a factory and I delivered them to the site with all the rest of the materials. And I gotta say they were fantastic. They were easy to build and they went up fast. Now as much as I love the government's approach I have to say that sadly it does fall short. Because houses are just one part of the equation when it comes to housing. The other component is land. Now, it's funny to think that in this country, we'd have issues with available land. But we do. Our cities are sprawled. And they're sprawled for a reason. I call it the Canadian dream. The single-dwelling, detached family home. I think it's what most Canadians attain to. It's what we want for ourselves, and more importantly, it's what we

want for our kids. Unfortunately, it's not the best use of space. More detached homes mean more roads, sidewalks, and sewers to build and maintain. It means more police, more fire, more ambulances, more garbage trucks, and more public transport. Then there's the environmental impact of all those extra services, all that extra infrastructure, all the extra cars, and all the extra kilometers required to go anywhere. Lastly, there's the tax implications of having sprawled out bedroom communities whose populations use city services but don't pay for them. I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but in a nutshell, that's why cities don't like

sprawl. They like density. It's efficient and cheaper to maintain, but at the same time, it drives property costs up as more dollars compete for limited space. So yeah, it's not just the house that's making housing unaffordable, it's the land itself that's putting that Canadian dream out of reach for many. So with apologies to Mr. Polyev's housing video opus, this is not a simple crisis to solve. The blueprint catalog is a great step, but it's going to take a lot more than that, and the feds can't do it on their own. We're going to need civic governments to get creative with their zoning on infills by either insisting on multi-unit dwellings

or restricting the size of any new builds to try and maintain a stock of somewhat affordable housing. We're going to need provincial governments to figure out a way for cities to access the tax base of all the sprawled bedroom communities that leach off them. And then we're going to need the federal government to fill in all the holes, backstop, and underwrite everything along the way. The first step should really be a comprehensive audit of all the government land available at every level. I'm talking old schools, disused buildings, derelict parks, even public golf courses. Because if you want to build affordable houses, you're going to need some affordable land. Public golf courses? Ranter, you may have ranted one block too far. I don't know. I know golf courses in major cities of the country

take up a good chunk of land, land that is worth considerable amounts of money now. And could they be put to better use than recreational places like golf courses? That's going to be an interesting debate. And I know the ranter is a golfer too, so that's quite something coming from him. Okay, it's time to get back to letters, but before we do, it's time to get back to letters. But before we do, it's time to take a quick break. We'll take this one, and then we'll be right back.

And welcome back. You're listening to The Bridge, the Thursday episode. It's your turn on The Random Ranter. Great to have you with us. You're listening on Sirius XM, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. All right, back to letters. And some of the other ones that came in this weekend,

they're on a variety of different topics, so we're just going to hop around here. Nan Taylor from Denfield, Ontario. Just heard that Bruce is taking a small step back from your podcast. Fair enough, he needs to prioritize his time and is wise to do so. I'll miss listening to him on Smoke, Mirrors, and the Truth, but look forward to still hearing his voice and opinions on Fridays with you and Chantal. Please ask him to keep us abreast of his radish farming again next summer.

He started a little radish farm in the COVID days. We haven't had an update on that for some time. I'll have to ask him about that. It's nice to hear nice things about Bruce and we appreciate that and so does Bruce. Nola Marion. You've been exploring current concepts around party politics, power dynamics, and parliamentary dysfunction. I'd like to see more exploration of democracy and how to effectively engage the body politic, the citizens. A couple of my thoughts are the

current party political system shuts citizens out in many ways, but most importantly, citizens have no input into a potential leader unless they join a political party. This does not encourage democracy. The definition of what makes a leader needs some exploration and perhaps redefining. Leadership is helping people get to where they need to go for the good of all. So we're not seeing this type of leadership. What we do see are leaders of political parties creating narratives that exploit the opposition and create, in many cases, false narratives from which citizens are left to choose. Typically, the narratives created by political parties serve the party and their base,

and this too goes against true leadership, which requires the leader to do what's best for all the people they serve. There's a saying that the greatest leader is the greatest servant, and this too seems sadly lacking in today's discourse, wherein there seems to be a notion that the greatest leader is the loudest, and there's no mention of being a servant to the public. What is with that? Good letter, Nolan. Nola Marion, thank you for that. Diane Sabaran in Winnipeg. This is about the Moore-Butts conversation on Tuesday. If you haven't heard it, you should.

It is a terrific conversation, number 12. Diane writes, Indeed, the 12th conversation was probably one of the best, although they've all been great. Diane writes, politicians. These conversations are a gift to democracy. I certainly hope they make their way to schools, universities, or any setting for that matter, as examples of conversations that matter, that inspire. Well, you'll be happy to know, Diane, that I've received contact from a number of different professors in different parts of the country who've said they have introduced or at least suggested to their students listening to these Moorabud's conversations.

Because, you know, they attempt to, you know, check their partisanship nature at the door. Occasionally it shows through, but for the most part, not. It's a pretty good reflection from their point of view of what happens on the inside in politics. And I've been so lucky to basically be a bystander listening to these two talk. It's terrific.

Gareth Wilson from Bowmanville, Ontario. Also about more butts. They never stop providing the airways with fascinating takes Gareth Wilson from Bowmanville, Ontario. Also Bowmore Butts. They never stopped providing the airways with fascinating takes on public life. And this past Tuesday was no different. However, I thought it was quite interesting that both James and Jerry referenced the temporary nature of public life in spite of our reality. They both thought it important to know when it was your time. Jerry actually said five to seven years, and James mentioned the fact knowing that you'll know when to go from realizing you've moved from doing to being, as losing touch with the electorate was dangerous. And here we sit nearing the end of 2023 with Pierre Polyev,

who has known nothing but being a career politician, no real world experience, and Trudeau, who has been in the position of power for 10 years and has lost sense of his own popularity. God help us. We need our leaders to stop feeding the anger and division, to recognize the fact that people are struggling. We need our leaders to bring us together and lift us up. If our world has learned anything, division and individual self-interest has led to devastating consequences.

So this is why I love these letters. You know, it's funny because we broadcast some of our podcasts on YouTube. You know, Smoke, Mirrors and Truth has been on YouTube for a few months. And Good Talk on Friday have been on YouTube. I look at the comments section, or I used to. I don't bother anymore. Because, you know, 80% of it is just garbage, you know, from people who don't include their names. They're just usually a number, they're the likelihood of bots and

created comments and all that and clearly those who who do have some kind of name attached to it and have an extremely negative almost hateful attitude towards certain opinions, haven't even listened to the show. Haven't even listened to the show. And it's obvious they haven't, right? And then there are a few that come through that are thoughtful. Like the overwhelming majority, I'd say 95% of those who bother to write to your turn, they're really thoughtful like the last

well like all the letters i've read here so far today even the ones on the christmas tree debate but you know what i mean i love reading these letters they certainly don't always agree with things we say, but they're constructive in their challenging to what is our, at times, conventional wisdom. So that's great. Here's another one. Mike Wan in Toronto, also talking about the more buts conversation. So again, a second, I got a cough. Turn the mic down.

I mentioned again, Tuesday, this past week, a couple of days ago, More Butts Conversation number 12. It's really worth listening to if you haven't listened to it. And, you know, for some of you, you might want to listen to it again because there's a lot of good stuff in there anyway mike wan writes every more butts conversation is a master class in political discourse it's so cool that these two giants in canadian politics they may argue with that term but they're certainly significant players in Canadian politics, are willing to put

down their partisan flags and pull down the curtain to give us a peek behind the scenes. The latest conversation raises a question. If the bar to enter politics is so high and the personal costs so great, how do we get highly qualified, reasonable people to run for office? There seems to be much grumbling about the toxicity of our current politics and the people in it. I'd love to hear more butts discuss this issue of how to get the best people into politics to maintain the health of our democracy. Happy holidays. Best wishes.

For your book tour. Have I mentioned the book tour? How Canada Works? Simon & Schuster. Co-authored by myself and Mark Bulgich. Available at bookstores everywhere. Or online. Go for it. You'll enjoy it. It's a lot less academic than the title sounds. Let's put it that way. There are some fabulous stories in there about Canadians who do their job every day, who love their job, who know that it impacts others, including us,

and we may not realize it. So listen to their, read their stories. They're great. Loved meeting and talking to all of those I talked to in that project. Mary Newcomb in Cumberland. I'm halfway through Ken McGugan's fascinating book, Searching for Franklin. I found your interview with McGugan was excellent.

That interview, as well as the images and references in the book, inspired me to find additional images in Google. My great-grandfather worked for the Hudson's Bay Company and apparently was involved with Franklin's first expedition. This led me to read Sir John Franklin's Journals and Correspondence, the first Arctic land expedition, 1819 to 1822. MacGugan's book is far more interesting, as was Erebus, a story of a ship by Michael Palin. It was not just a ship. Erebus, well, Erebus was one of the two Franklin ships, right? The Erebus and the Terror.

And Michael Palin, Michael Palin was part of the Monty Python. But he loves history, and he loves stories of Arctic exploration. And his book, Erebus, I agree with Mary. It's a really good book and a fascinating read. A few years ago, I listened to a CBC broadcast of you being interviewed about your trip through the Northwest Passage. At the end, Stan Rogers, the great Canadian folk singer, Stan Rogers' song about the Northwest Passage was played. I stood in my kitchen and cried. Mary, I totally know that

feeling. You know, I remember going through the Northwest Passage on the Louis S. Saint Laurent, Canada's biggest icebreaker. And at one point, over the loudspeakers, going through one stretch of the Northwest Passage, they played Stan Rogers. You could hear a pin drop. And there were more than a few tears. It's a great piece of music by a great musician who we lost in a plane crash in Cincinnati.

But, you know, I know exactly how you feel listening to that song and being aware, at least of some of the story, of the Franklin Expedition. So those of you who are unfamiliar with the Stan Rogers, easy to find. You can find it. And Mary's eyes thought a passing thought when Franklin was eating his footwear. I wonder if he thought of the starving denny.

He did not help. That's part of the Franklin story as well. Known as the man who ate his boots. Because on his second expedition, which was a disaster, I think about a dozen of his, you know, part of his team died of starvation on that trip, and he almost did. He literally ate his boots to stay alive. Well, no such luck on the next expedition

where everybody was lost, all 130 of the men died. I've actually received a number of letters over the last little while about Ken McGuigan's new book, Searching for Franklin. I love Ken McGuigan's writing, and I love his books. There is some debate around's new book, Searching for Franklin. I love Ken McGuigan's writing and I love his books. There is some debate around his latest book, which suggests that the real reason Franklin and his men died was because they ate polar bear meat and got trichinosis. And there's conflicting views about that.

Let's just say that in terms of the studies that are being done into polar bear meat. Carolyn Rose writes, I really enjoyed the podcast about disinformation. This was a couple of weeks ago with Lee McIntyre, a professor at Boston University who's written a lot of books. They're all bestsellers, and the latest one is on disinformation. Carolyn writes, I've grown up with the CBC and was sad when you retired.

I wasn't sad. I'd been there 50 years. I'd benefited greatly from the CBC. I have strong feelings about the CBC, as many of you know, both for its importance to the country, but also I'm not shy when I think they're doing things wrong. Anyway, I've grown up with the CBC. When everything feels so unsettled today,

it is so great to find a familiar voice that you can trust. I like your way of getting to the heart of a story or an issue in what feels like a sea of disinformation and untruths. It's reassuring to still have you. That's very kind of you, Carolyn. I really appreciate it. There are a lot of good journalists out there, and many of them are at the CBC. And I've never questioned that.

I've questioned the way some decisions are made at the CBC, but I haven't questioned the quality of the journalism. Richard Swindells from Mono, Ontario. I became a landed immigrant in April of 1967 as the only passenger on a freighter anchored in the St. Lawrence off Montreal. I did not have the opportunity to compare notes with other immigrants who were in the same boat. They were on different boats.

The boat had no cargo to discharge, so we proceeded to Toronto, where I disembarked. I remember going to some government office at Queen's Park, to a room jammed with people just like me. I was alone, had no job, nowhere to stay, and I can still imperfectly recall my emotions, loneliness, worry, and a great uncertainty of what lay ahead. Now I can reveal that I am white, with an English background, and well-educated. I cannot imagine what it must be like to land on

these shores as I did, but without language and possibly limited skills. But many do, and in time they contribute to this great country of ours. My wife came to Canada as a young child with her parents, and they contribute to this great country. She had three siblings born in Finland who came to find a better life. She spoke no English and kindergarten was tough, but she and her whole family have thrived. From these seven immigrants, including me, an extended family of 28 has emerged, the several parts of which contribute to how Canada works.

I think the population of Canada in 1967 was about 20 millions, and it is now about 40. I firmly believe that Canada now is a better country than it was in 1967, and that immigrants in part have played a huge role in this achievement. We must continue to embrace new Canadians and accept that some may come with baggage, but trust that in time they will embrace our values as I hope I have. I am immensely grateful for the good life I have enjoyed in Canada. It's my home, and I am content. Thanks, Richard. Great letter. Okay, here's the last letter. It's kind of a trip down CBC memory lane. It comes from Olga Eisner Favreau.

She's a professor of psychology, or was. She's retired now. Lives in Montreal. And I read her her old letter as our last letter of the day. I'm writing about two different but related topics that have come up on the podcast, Pierre Polyev and CBC. I have a great many concerns about Polyev becoming our Prime Minister, but for me personally, the main one is his intention to defund CBC Radio Canada. Now a retired academic, I spend much of each day painting or drawing, accompanied by radio, podcasts, or audiobooks.

I also listen while doing various household tasks. But it is mostly radio that keeps me feeling connected to Canada and to the rest of the world. I live alone, but I'm not lonely due to a combination of family, friends, and radio. CBC Radio has been an important part of my life for as long as I can remember. I'll be revealing my age, 84, this week. When I say that I tried to never miss an episode of Maggie Muggins. The 6 o'clock news has been a staple in my life since listening to war news with my parents as we ate our dinner. We called it supper back then. Even today, listening to it reminds me of my mother's pot roast and potatoes.

I remember my mother ironing while she listened to the Procter & Gamble radio hour, four 15-minute soap operas that were the ancestors of the TV soaps. Until it ended, the happy gang was a delight whenever possible. I happily remember seeing them in person in Massey Hall when I was nine years old. As an adult, I tried to arrange my workday so that I could listen to Peter Zosky, one of our country's treasures. As It Happens has, as much as possible, been a daily event from its very beginnings, and more recently the current. Day 6 is another favorite, and more. These days, I don't listen to the CBC as much as I used to, but that is mostly because I've discovered Roger Canada.

I began listening in order to improve my French when I started teaching at Université de Montréal in 1974, and have since much increased my listening when I started teaching at Université de Montréal in 1974, and have since much increased my listening, because they are so amazingly excellent. I am far from alone in feeling this. A recent numerous poll found that a substantial number of RADCAN programs were the most listened to in Quebec, far behind English CBC in the rest of the country.

They excel in current events, local, national, and international, as well as cultural programming. By the way, Chantal Hébert can be heard on Raja Canada every weekday, Monday to Thursday mornings, and in the Friday noon hour. Unfortunately, as others have complained, I don't find CBC Radio as good as it used to be. The glory days of Zosky, Bill Richardson, etc. are gone. Even Eleanor Wachtell, another of my favorites, has retired. But maybe it's that I'm just not in the demographic that they are trying to attract.

There's not much future in appealing to 84-year-olds, although that's clearly not an issue with Raja Canada, who attract a broad audience. To sum up, for me personally, the loss of CBC Raja Canada would drastically reduce my quality of life. But far more importantly, for our entire country, it would, I believe, create irreparable damage. I can't think of anything else that ties us together in the way our national radio network does. But probably that's what Polyev wants, so that his lies will not have competition from the truth that we can rely on CBC RATCAN to deliver. I haven't mentioned television because I mostly just don't watch it. Although I used to when some other guy was doing the news.

Yeah, right. I want to thank you for your great podcast. As soon as I hit send, I'm going to listen to today's edition. Professor Favreau. Thank you so much. I mean, there really was a trip down memory lane. And, you know, for many of our listeners, they're not going to remember some of those names. Maggie Muggins, the Happy Gang, all that.

I do. I remember those names. I may not be 84, but I'm rushing to catch up to you. And we share a lot of opinions. We have a great admiration for the idea of the CBC and the need of the CBC. We have some questions about the way things are run. And that's okay.

You know, it's a public broadcaster, and the public should have a say. Right? And whatever that say may be, I mean, clearly, Pierre Polyev is touching a nerve for some people. He is reading the room and you've seen it in data and polls about the future of public broadcasting. I mean, some people are upset. Some aren't.

Some agree with what he's saying. It's a time for leadership. Real leadership. If we're going to save the CBC. All right. That's going to wrap it up for this day. Tomorrow, I know I promised earlier in the week that I would get around to this story about

the headline is almost half the men surveyed think they could land a passenger plane. I love this story. And we will get to it. It may not be until next week. But we'll get to it at some point. All right. I'm Peter Mansbridge. This has been The Bridge for Thursday.

Tomorrow, it's Good Talk with Chantel and Bruce. And we look forward to bringing that to you. That's it for today. Thanks for listening. We will talk again in the old 24-hour time block. See you then. Thank you.