The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - Your Turn -- Your Thoughts on Ukraine

Episode Date: March 24, 2022

The mailbag was full again this week with your thoughts mainly on Ukraine.  Some of what you had to say, highlights this week's episode.

And hello there, Peter Mansbridge here. You are just moments away from the latest episode of The Bridge. It's Thursday, that means your turn, your letters, your thoughts, your comments, your ideas, coming right up. And before we start this week, I should mention, kind of follow up to what I'd said at the end of yesterday's program with Bruce on Smoke Mirrors and the Truth. I was talking about the Leafs game, that I was going to a Leafs game last night, and I was wondering what it was going to be like mask-wise, because the rules have changed. You no longer have to wear a mask in the arena. That's all part of the lessening of restrictions here in the province of Ontario. So I went to the game expecting, well, you know, I imagine a lot of people will take advantage of that and not wear a mask.

I was going to wear a mask. And my son, Will, was going to wear a mask. So we get there, get to the game, and it's like 1994. It's like, hey, what pandemic? I'm telling you, there was hardly a sight of a mask anywhere. And it was disarming, I got to tell you. I know they were following the rules. They were allowed not to wear a mask, and that's fine.

But Will and I were wearing a mask, and my pal Derek and his wife, who were sitting beside us, they were wearing masks. But I got to tell you, you had to look long and hard to see anyone else in the whole arena wearing a mask. That's yesterday's problem, they think. And perhaps they're right. I hope they're right. We all a very strange feeling. But hey, the Leafs won.

That's got to be the upside. And their goalie turned up. After all the cheap shots taken by a number of people, including myself, the goalie was there. Played a good game. Not a great game, but a good game. And you know what? Right now, that's absolutely adequate.

So we'll take that. All right. The Thursday episode, it's your turn here on the bridge. and your turn basically means exactly what it says, your turn, to give your ideas or your thoughts or comments or questions on various issues of the day. And not surprisingly, for the most part, the letters on this day are about Ukraine, about Canada's actions, about the world's actions, about the Russian actions

on Ukraine. As always, I always mention this for first-time listeners, we get a lot of letters here at the Bridge. A lot of them come in on email at the Mansbridge podcast at gmail.com. And I read every letter that comes in. You know, I look for new listeners and there's a lot this week. And I pick out some of the letters, not all of them. We'd never have time for all of them.

And I usually pick just a part of each letter. Sometimes I'll read a whole letter, especially at the end, the last one of the day. So that's basically the ground rules of how this works on Thursdays. And it seems to be a popular episode of the podcast that people like to hear what others have to say. Other than just me or Chantel or Bruce or whoever the guests are on the week. And we've had a great week for guests this week.

And you think about it. Former Prime Minister of Australia, the great Margaret Macmillan, Brian Stewart. Now we're Jason Kendrachuk, the doctor from Winnipeg, on masking, amongst other things. All right, let's get to it.

Start off from Spaniards Bay, Newfoundland, Labrador. I love the names of, you know, my two favorite provinces, well, three really, I think, for names, are Newfoundland, Labrador, Saskatchewan, some great names in Saskatchewan, and British Columbia. I love some of those names. Well, I love the sound of Spaniards Bay in Newfoundland, Labrador. You know, it sounds swashbuckling.

Anyway, Glenn Roach writes, Putin plus nuclear weapons is probably not a good combination. However, I feel another threat to the world. Is Russia getting control of Ukraine's nuclear power stations? I do not think it's a matter of if, but when NATO enters Ukraine to confront Russian troops. Does anyone really think that they will leave willingly from these facilities? It's frightening to think of the damage that could be done. Example, radiated farmland in Ukraine and around the world.

You know, Glenn, I'm glad you pointed this out. I mean, most of Ukraine is farmland, right? It's the breadbasket of the world. That's where a lot of the world's wheat comes from, Ukraine. When I was growing up in Canada in the 50s and 60s, we were taught that Saskatchewan was the breadbasket of North America. And it was and is. So there's going to be enormous pressure on the prairies, our prairies, to produce wheat if there's a shortfall from Ukraine for the world.

The world's food. This is part of the story that hasn't yet been really told. That the potential for terrible situations in terms of food across the world could be one of the byproducts of this war. And can Saskatchewan and the Canadian prairies fulfill the need? Don't think so. First of all, they don't produce anywhere near what Ukraine produces. And second, you know, if I recall correctly, there was a drought last year on the prairies,

and that's impacted and will impact this year's crop, and especially what's in the elevators and bins and storage areas from what was last year. So this is part of the story we've got to get to in some detail. Because it's a huge, I mean, I know we're focused on the war right now, and the damage being done by it, but this is the second shoe to drop, how to feed the world if Ukraine's wheat production is severely hampered. And Glenn's point about the nuclear power stations is a part of that story too.

Jim Herchak from St. Albert, Alberta I've heard that China doesn't like what's happening Yet during the UN vote to condemn it They abstained What does China like and not like about what's happening? What is China hoping for? Good questions, Jim Go back and listen to Monday's podcast podcast kevin rudd the former prime

minister of australia was our guest and this was the very subject we were talking about china it was part of a much longer conversation i had with him at the university of toronto's monk school for global policy Munk School for Global Policy, which had been done a couple of days before. It's an hour-long discussion. You want to talk about China. Kevin Rudd's the guy to talk to. He's a China expert. He grew up in Taiwan, speaks fluent Mandarin,

is constantly in contact with various officials in China. He's the global president of the global, or the global president of the Asia Society. So he knows what he's talking about. Fascinating conversation. You can find it on the Munk School website. The China story is fascinating. Sean Mooney,

who lives in Tokyo, but listens to The Bridge, because, hey, if you're in Tokyo, of course you'd listen to The Bridge, right? You can download the podcast anywhere in the world. And, man, we've had a lot of listeners from all over the place. Sean writes about something he heard on on the on the bridge a few weeks ago you talked about churchill traveling to paris a time or two on the eve of france being overrun by the nazis as a historical precedent for the polish czech and slovenian leaders visit to kiev i can think of one more it It's not really the same, but it's kind of neat. I was fascinated to learn in a biography of Queen Mary

that more than once, King George V visited British soldiers at the front in France in World War I. This anecdote about one such visit in October of 1916, the king was 51 at the time, is something I shall never forget. After viewing the third and last parade, the flying corps, the king paused in the saddle long enough to exchange a few words with the commanding officer. At that moment, another officer, thinking this is a good time, called for three cheers to the king from his company.

The king's horse, startled by the sudden outburst, quivered in terror and crouched down on its haunches. The king held fast to the reins. Then suddenly the animal sprang up, reared straight into the air, and its hind legs, slipping in the slush and mud underfoot, fell backward right on top of the king. His aide jumped off his horse. He was by the king's inert body in brief moments. By the time within two or three minutes that the king opened his eyes, David, his eldest son, a soldier, the future Edward VIII, had reached him and was kneeling by his side.

The king turned his head slowly toward the hushed and frightened parade of men still standing in formation and whispered to his aide to fetch him his military cap, which had rolled several feet away. When his aide returned, the king insisted that David help him to his feet and support him on each side. After an effort to walk proved to be too painful, he allowed his son and his aide to carry him in a sitting position to his motor, where he was propped up in the rear seat. David got in with him, and they returned to the nearby chateau where they were staying. That's the story. Edward goes on to explain that the king fractured his pelvis, had a long pain rack convalescence, and never fully recovered from the accident. Man, that must have been a heck of a visit

all right steven low see what steven has to say he writes from maitland nova scotia good selection of different places in the country and outside the country once again about ukraine perhaps one of of the questions Canada needs to ask itself when considering what to do to help Ukraine is this. If Putin were to take Ukraine and all that happened was that Russia was sanctioned, and if Trump got re-elected with a Republican majority, which then dropped the U.S. sanctions on Russia, and instituted an authoritarian system before deciding to invade Canada

using the same threat that Putin used of nuclear strikes against countries that interfered, would NATO countries do anything more than level sanctions against Trump and his government members and or the United States? And would Canada find itself fighting a war against the U.S. in the same way that Ukraine has had to fight against Russia? Would we find ourselves pleading for NATO to institute a no-fly zone over Canada and wishing we'd done more to help the Ukrainians? Well, well, well. That's a big question gareth wilson where's gareth bowmanville ontario

i just wonder are we on the verge of a historic inflection point on how western liberal democracies will go forward i believe we are inking the pages of history books each and every day. So as Ukraine defends itself against this authoritarian state's aggression, I would argue that they are not just fighting for their freedom, but ours as well. This is an inflection point for democratic principles and how the world responds will carry us forward. Make no mistakes, a war fought on Ukrainian soil will impact what grows in the soil of nations globally. Adam Dufour in Ottawa. I'm uneasy about the posturing of NATO in response to the war. I feel that their publicly stated red line of attacking a NATO ally is too restrictive.

I understand that, in pure numbers, 40 million people is less than the hundreds of millions, if not billions, that would perish in a nuclear war. However, I cannot overlook the moral inconsistency of going to war over a country like Estonia, for example, and not Ukraine. Would NATO still want to engage if Putin has a finger on the nuclear button? Remember, Estonia is a NATO country. In my mind, the only thing different about the two is that Estonia was admitted to the club and Ukraine was not. Estonians are no more or less worthy of protection than Ukrainians. Kay Teschke.

Kay is in... I'm not sure where she is from because she doesn't say I enjoy your show very much listening mainly on walks through the forest near home in Vancouver and it doesn't that sound idyllic listening to the bridge

while walking through the forest in Vancouver. The mountains are just over there. The ocean's just over here. But the bridge is right there on my ears. I love hearing the different ways

that you listen to the bridge. I mean, some people listen on Sirius XM, on the satellite radio, while they're in their cars or trucks. I've heard lots from truckers over the last few months who listen to the bridge while they're riding the highway. But whether you're in a vehicle or whether you're on your treadmill or whether you're on a bike or whether you're walking in the forest in vancouver i love hearing about that

all right back to Kay's letter. I've often thought of writing, but for some reason, this is the issue that has finally made me do so. Every time I hear someone say, on your show and so many others, the war in Ukraine, I shout to myself, no, no, no. It's the Russian invasion of Ukraine. War in Ukraine makes it sound like the conflict is Ukraine's fault. Whereas Russian invasion of Ukraine is the truth.

And it lays the responsibility squarely where it belongs. Thanks to you and all your commentators on this and so many other issues. You know, Kay, you're not alone. A number of people have written about that. They kind of objected when I called it a conflict. They objected when I called it a battle. And they wanted me to make sure I called it a war. Now, you don't have anything against the word war, but you do want whatever phrase is used to make sure that people understand

it's Russia's fault that this is happening. And I get that. I hear you on that. But, you know, quite frankly, I do think that all these terms can apply at different times. The fact is, people are killing each other. And if you believe the latest estimate, more than 15,000 Russian troops have been killed in this war.

In this war between a state that aggressively walks into another country ignoring its sovereign rights and attacking it for the purpose of taking over that land. So is a Russian invasion of Ukraine? Absolutely.

It certainly is. It's also a war. It's a conflict. It's a battle between, at this point, two nations on the ground and the world trying to influence the outcome. And, you know, those who wonder aloud, as I have to, about whether this is an inflection point in the history of the world. Sure it is. Absolutely it is. No matter what happens here, it's going to have a huge impact on the way we move forward as a community of nations. All right. It's time for a pause because we're going to shift topics here. There were a lot more letters on the war, the conflict, the battle,

the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Those are the highlights. All right. As I said, time for for a pause then we get right back at it and welcome back i'm peter Mansbridge in Toronto on This Morning. This is The Bridge, the Your Turn episode of this Thursday. And you're listening on Sirius XM, Channel 167, Canada Talks, or on your favorite podcast platform. And wherever you're listening from, we're really very happy to have you with us okay so there are some other this is kind of like the potpourri section of the

thursday your turn episode because there's some different topics being covered here as well and we'll end with one last letter on ukraine which I'll read in its entirety. But this one is from Welland, Ontario. John Torres writes, I'm writing today and I apologize if this has been discussed already about these so-called freedom truckers and anyone who is in support of them using my Canadian flag as a symbol of their protest. As a first-generation Canadian, I take great pride in the Canadian flag and all that stands for. And now when I see it being used as a sign of protest, I cringe. I take great pride in waving

my flag in front of my home. But because of these protests, I feel that it has been tarnished in a way, and it saddens me. As a symbol for all Canadians, the flag shouldn't be used in this way, and I hope that there are more people who speak up against this. You know, John, I've had a lot of trouble with this too. You know, I found it extremely frustrating at the height of that protest of watching people basically take over the flag.

But you know what? They were expressing their right. You know, and Canada is different than the States. In the States, you can't burn that flag or you're going to jail. In Canada, I think it's been determined that you can basically do whatever you want with the flag. But it is our flag. And when we say our flag, it's everybody who's Canadian has a right to wave that flag, to, I guess,

support whatever they believe they can support. I find it equally frustrating, John, I did, as I said, through the height of that protest, but deep down, I think what we decided in Canada is that you can wave that flag in support of whatever you want to wave that flag in support of. And that's why I think that there were a couple of times during the Ottawa protests when the people of the city of Ottawa had finally had enough. They heard there was a new convoy coming into town.

And they went out and they stood and blocked the road and they waved their flags. And they wouldn't let them in. You know, there were issues around that. Did the police, you know, did the police get involved and say, hey, you got to let the truckers through. They have a right to do what they do.

They've got a permit or whatever. But I loved that moment because there was the Canadian flag being used in defense of the city, of their rights as members of the community, against others' rights to protest. When they do that, or did that, legally as opposed to illegally. Anyway, it's an interesting topic, and I know it generates,

the flag generates a lot of emotions. Pat Wharton from Vernon, B.C. I'm sure you're getting a slew of letters about the agreement between the Liberals and the NDP. I find all the noise about this subject curious. In Europe, governments of this kind have functioned for years. As Canadians, we elected a second Liberal minority, and I believe that meant we wanted government by consensus and cooperation between parties. I think this agreement was formed in the best interest of governmental stability

for the next three years. Many of the items on the agenda are ones that have been proposed and not completed forever over many governments. I'm hopeful this could be the start of true democracy, where work is done across parties to achieve great things for all Canadians. We talked about this yesterday, obviously, on Smoke Mirrors and the Truth with Bruce, and we'll talk about it again tomorrow. And Chantel joins us for Good Talk. You can be sure that's going to be an interesting one. As Pat says, I'm sure Friday will be a lively discussion

and I think it will be but you're right as I headlined yesterday's episode do the critics actually understand our own political history some of them who are in politics today saying things when this agreement was announced.

You can like the agreement or you can dislike the agreement. That's fine. But saying it's unprecedented, it's a version of democracy and all that, that's crap. It just is. It's happened before it'll happen again it's a part of the parliamentary process if you choose to go that route

and you know eventually the public will decide you know it's not you can argue about whether it's in the best interest of the NDP to as the saying goes go to bed with the Liberals. Because it hasn't worked out so well for them in past times. It didn't work out for the NDP in the 60s.

It led to a majority Liberal government. It didn't work out so well for the Liberals in the 1970s. It led to a Liberal-majority government. What'll happen this time? We don't know. Okay, here's one from Bob Smith in Mitchell, Ontario. Mitchell's just down the road from Stratford. Okay.

What does Robert Smith have to say? He's been watching what's going on in the Conservative Party's leadership race. He's a Conservative, all right, and he's been watching this race unfold and has different feelings about the different participants in it. But at the bottom line for him is, to contribute to this process, my family and I have just signed up to be members of the CPC, Conservative Party of Canada, thus participating in the leadership election in September. My 14-year-old daughter is ecstatic. I would encourage you to sign up and vote. Help choose a leader that will best beat the Liberals

if you feel the Liberals should be replaced. Now, I'm reading that letter because I'm glad Robert wrote it. It reminds me of what John Turner used to say, the late former Prime Minister, former leader of the Liberal Party, that if you believe in democracy, you have to take part in democracy you have to take part in the process you can run for public office or you can determine who achieves public office help determine it and that's what robert's saying's saying, I want to be part of the process. So does my family. And good for you, because that's what makes the democratic process strong, no matter what party you support. If that support is also based on you getting yourself involved at some level. So I like that. Here's the last letter of the day.

And I'm going to read it all. It comes from London, Ontario. Wendy Holmes. I was born in October of 1962, during the October Missile Crisis. My mother was preparing for my delivery while also stockpiling canned food under the basement stairs. I remember those cans throughout my childhood, gathering dust, but always there. I remember the air raid siren tests in our neighborhood. I remember writing letters to Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and to President Reagan imploring them to work for peace

and get rid of nuclear arms in the 1970s and 80s. I remember being gripped in terror during a grade 11 physics class in the 70s when a low-flying plane flew over and I thought it was a cruise missile carrying a nuke. I lost a great-grandfather in the First World War, a great-uncle in the Second, and my grandfather was on a disability pension for the rest of his life from injuries sustained in World War II. Yet I have been in utter shock to what we are witnessing in Ukraine. I believed we had learned as a world, having barely escaped nuclear annihilation once and having lived through two horrendous world wars. But we seem to be here again, on the brink. I thought this type of war was behind us. Unthinkable. Margaret Macmillan's words hit me like a ton of bricks.

Am I part of this problem? Has my optimism for humanity and disgust in spending on military weapons helped to put us in a position where naivety and weakness has allowed Putin the latitude to do these monstrous things? Our family is preparing for a delivery again, this time of our first granddaughter, in six weeks. And now I'm asking myself a lot of questions regarding what each of us in our country may need to prepare to do.

I'm afraid. Yet deep down inside, still have optimism for humanity. However, my eyes are suddenly wide open. Your podcasts and informative guests have certainly been instrumental in this. I hope that war will not be required by NATO, but I am now very willing to listen to what we need to do to protect the West and our ideals. I pray that when our new granddaughter arrives, that it will be her generation that never again sees a war. Thank you, Wendy.

Glad you mentioned Margaret MacMillan. It was an honor for us to have Margaret Macmillan on the program on Tuesday of this week and it's certainly well worth

listening to if you didn't on Tuesday you should go back and listen to that the Tuesday podcast so that's that's it for this week.

A lot of interesting mail, as I said at the beginning of this podcast. And it's great to hear from you, all of you, when you write each week. So looking ahead, tomorrow. Good talk. Bruce Anderson, Chantelle Hebert. Lots to say on Ukraine. Lots to say on the new political deal. Lots to say on the conservative leadership.

They're all possible. We haven't worked out what we're going to talk about tomorrow. And usually what happens is, you know, we send each other an email on Thursdays agreeing to what time we're going to do the podcast and a rough idea of what we're going to talk about but usually by the time we push the record button it just kind of tumbles out and that's the beauty of it and the other beauty of it is we've got time we're not squeezing it into like 10 or 11 minutes like we used to a lot on the old days um but now we got an hour thanks to the good people at sirius and uh away we go and people like seem to like that format

seem to like it a lot actually okay Away we go. And people seem to like that format. Seem to like it a lot, actually. Okay. You've had it, Peter. You can wrap it up now. This has been the fridge. This has been the fridge. The Elliot Friedman Show.

Now, this has been the bridge. The Thursday episode of your turn, your comments and thoughts. I'm Peter Mansbridge. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you again with good talk in 24 hours. Thank you.