The Brilliant Idiots - Its Never My Fault (Feat. Terrell Owens & Matthew Hatchette)

Episode Date: February 13, 2020

This Week former NFL players Terrell Owens and Matthew Hatchette join Charlamange and Andrew and discuss what its like to play in the NFL, T.O. addresses some of the controversy he has been through, and lots more!!! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's so stupid. It's positively brilliant. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Announcing a plane. Are we going? And then with Romo, I say, stop. Because people are about slide over a little bit more?

T.O. Thanks, man. If Romo was as good as a commentator's... No, a football player, he is a commentator. He'd be awesome. Yeah. But it's a difference when you got people chasing you, then you're sitting there articulating or calling a game and telling people,

okay, this is what about to happen. And then it happens. I would have done this at the other when you're not under pressure. Are we recording this? Okay, good. I'm glad we got all of that. We're going to start it just like that.

This is the brilliant of this podcast. Shalameenegh. Andrew Sheltz. We have two special guests in the building, host of the Get Your Popcorn Ready podcast. Yes, sir. I'm going to say Matthew Hatchettett first, just out of respect.

As well, you should, young man. Okay. Terrell Owens. Terrell. Terrell. Terrell. Terrell. Terrell. Yes.

Terrell, T.O. It's get your popcorn ready with Hatch and T.O. Have you, today it'll be there. We're talking about the Romo situation, because I asked Tio earlier, it was Romo a better quarterback or announcer. Because, you know, when you're sitting there, you're like, if he can see what the,

if he knows what's going on, why didn't he know that when he was a player? And you just explained it perfectly. Yeah. Do I need to explain to you? Yeah, go ahead, why not? Well, what I said is like, okay, if he, like I said,

for him to be the quarterback that he was. Yeah. And so to sit now where he sits in the seat of announcing games, you know, dissecting, you know, plays before they happen. Again, he doesn't have any pressure coming after him, you know, in a booth as he does on the football field. Right. So you don't have those innate abilities to escape, you know what I mean, in a booth like you do on the field. Right. You get what I'm saying?

So most quarterbacks, what you're saying, or a lot of quarterbacks know what's going to happen, but it's different when you got a guy 20060 pounds running. at you. And you have two seconds to do it. Absolutely. Right, right, right. So he's not so elite, maybe a call in the game. Like, if you brought another quarterback who had played the position for just as long, he could probably predict those same place. I think, well, I don't know, Troy Eggman don't do that. No, 99% of the players... I don't even know if he's there still. Like, he doesn't know where he is, Troy Eichman and Tony Romo. Yeah. Troy Aikman has won Super Bowl. Right. Tony hasn't really won anything. And that's, that was a knock on him.

that he couldn't win the big game. Right. I have a question. Okay. Can we, can we, I have a question. I have a theory. Let me clear. There's not me hating on it.

No, just saying facts. You just sign it like a hitter. Right. But people are saying, but people are hearing it and they're like, oh, he's hating this and that and the other. No, I'm not hating this and that.

I cried for the guy. Like, you know, in the locker room, like saying, we're in the locker room, you're in a brotherhood. And that's, I ride it, I died, you know, cried for my dude. You know what I thought the questions at that time

was unfair. And if to clear, So bringing everybody up to speed is we got into the playoffs. He was dating Jessica Simpson at the time. We had a week before a playoffs started, and they went to like Cancun or Cobo or something of him and Jason Whitten and everybody else. And then everybody's like, oh, well, he's not focused, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, then we came back and we lost the game.

So we got, we got press press conference, you know, and they tried to blame it on. That was, his trip was the why we lost the game. What did you do that week? That has nothing to do with me. Yeah. I think I had a high ankle sprain, so I was getting treatment. Damn, you always hurt. Yeah, bro.

To be such a physical specimen, you sure always hurt. That's kind of a point to you. You are hurting the big moments. But to your credit, as you did play. But I came through in a big moments, too. You know, whereas you asked me about the McNabb situation. You know, when I was in the hyperbaric chamber, getting treatment around the clock,

little that I know, he's out the night before the game, getting boozed up, this and that, yeah. Then all of a sudden, we're in the game, and then he gets sick. We end up losing. You're saying they're getting sick was from the booze? He was hung over. 23, 24 or 21, we end up losing a Super Bowl.

But everybody was like, but I never, the thing is, I was so, I was so, I had two screws and a plate in my, in my ankle. So my focus was honestly. You weren't even put the plate. Right. Yeah. So my focus was so. Yeah, I was unreal. Getting ready and being prepared for the game.

So I had no idea till a week later that he had three. thrown up in the huddle. Hank Fraley, who was our center at the time, and Freddie Mitchell, they're the ones, I think, kind of acknowledged or, you know, there was the first ones to mention that he had gotten sick in the huddle. I did an interview. I was in Miami, some reporter, what have you, and so he asked me about the incident. And I said, and my response was, I said, if anybody should have been out of shape, it should have been me, because I hadn't played in like about a month and a half. So I never said anything about him being sick in the huddle or him throwing up in the huddle. But with my response,

It came out next week. Oh, Terrell was criticizing Donovan. He said he threw up in the huddle. He was out of shape. This, I never said. You actually just said Donald McNab got drunk the night before the Super Bowl. I said, that's what I heard. Yeah, he was boozed up.

Yeah, he was boozed up. But I said, I didn't know. This is what I heard. Where was the soup? What was the soup? Soup cures are. I don't know. I mean, all these years, bro, like I said, everybody has criticized me and said that I

broke up the team. He just recently come on. said, oh, I prevented them from getting to the Super Bowl or making a Super Bowl run the following year. When the year of the Super Bowl, two weeks prior to the Super Bowl, they were asking him about my availability for the Super Bowl. He was basically saying that he didn't need me. They didn't need me. We got to the Super Bowl without Tio because they played those two playoff games without me. So why would you now come out and say, oh, I prevented you from getting to the Super Bowl the next year?

When you just said, you didn't really need me. I brought a lot of swag, a lot of energy, a lot of professionalism, a lot of big plays to Philadelphia when I came over from San Francisco. And I think that kind of energized and that kind of stuck with the team and that kind of flowed through the season. They wrote that energy that I brought. Question. For both of y'all, because both of y'all played football, the night before a big game, shouldn't players protect each other from like going out and getting drunk or getting high or being with women? But you would think, especially the. how he's regarded to be a consummate pro professional,

you know, he's a quarterback captain of the team. You would think that he would be the guy to make sure that those things, you know. And good locker rooms usually they do, right? Good locker room, all the veterans are making sure the younger guys are in by a certain time where, like I said, there's no reason to go out because we're here for one goal.

When you have like a younger team or like younger leaders, then they think that's what it's about. But most of the time, most good teams do have, a good lock room and they kind of, you know, kind of police themselves. What if it was nerves, though? Like the night before a big game, do you got to go out and try to do something to take the edge off? You do the exact

same thing. You should do the exact same thing you've been doing all years, especially as you're a veteran. But if you win, no one cares, right? Like, you know, Michael Jordan's out gambling until like 4 a.m. in the morning. But he was the freak of nature. Jordan could do that. You can't put Michael Jordan and Donovan in the same. I know. I know what I'm saying

is winning. I'm doing the same thing. You can't, you can't. No, you can't, you can't be in that conversation. What are you mean? You're, no. Wait, did you just put you with M.J. and Kobe? That's what I'm saying. You're here.

With me? There's M.J. and Kobe not here? Bro, come on. I'm here because they're not here. Okay. Let's talk about. No, I've been trying to tell him the same thing.

He's not on that level. MJ and Kobe, well, obviously, Kobe rest in peace. But like, MJ and Kobe, they're doing different things because they transcended the sport. Right? So I didn't transcend what I did as a receiver, a big receiver. I'll give you, I'll give you that, but you're still not on their level. I will say this about receivers. I think that receivers are the most dynamic position possibly.

Give what you say. I'm going to get that. Come on. Can I build? Can I butter up? Can I butter up? No, don't butter up. No, you're going to eat it. I think it's the most dynamic, probably the most dynamic athletes in sports.

I also think it's the least effective position in helping your team win. I would never pay a wide receiver. I think a word you said is useless. I think it's the most useless position in terms of helping. helping your team win. Yep. I get what you're saying. Okay, so I just don't know an elite receiver that's won a Super Bowl in the last decade.

Both of them are receiving. I know. Okay, so. I was an elite receiver. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let me get them.

Let me get them. Let me get them. No, no. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. So I would say that I'm an elite receiver. You are no doubt. An elite receiver. So if Donovan wasn't getting, getting sick in the Super Bowl, we would have won. If he wasn't drunk. Hung.

Hang over. So to your point, to discount your point that you didn't see, you've never seen an elite receiver win a Super Bowl. No, no, in the last decade. I don't know. Okay, okay. The last one I can remember is Marvin Harrison. And do you guys remember the- He wasn't, that's not-

If he's not elite then. That's not the top ten ever to play. And again, so they're making my point. I see what you're saying. Let me finish the point, though. The point is because the game is not in your control. Right. Okay.

So you guys can be as great as you want to be. Exactly. But you catch the ball eight times a game, that's an amazing game. Only eight possessions you affect the game. You're not really blocking. You are blocking on every single play, so don't say that ever again, but go ahead. You know what I mean? No, not true.

You're not blocking a linebacker, two-fifty. You're blacking a quarterback five-legged. Sometimes we are, but go ahead. Okay. So you're not truly affecting the outcome of the game as much as other position play. For example, offensive defensive line, like those are the only people I would pay. Offensive defensive line. Quarterback maybe.

I don't even think you got to be that good. So who are you going to pay them? You pay the A, defensive line. I'm all for them. They're underpaid. They're grossly underpaid. And it's their fault. But you guys are exciting.

You guys sell the tickets. And the people who sell the tickets get money. Don't get me wrong. The one-handed catches OBJ. I don't know if OBJ ever going to win a Super Bowl. Probably not. Okay. So what you're saying is, right?

There's 11 players on the field, right? You take those two or three receivers, top three receivers. If you take them out and just put in regular dudes, What do you do when it's third and seven? What do you do when it's third and 11? What are you doing in the last two minutes of a game? Because if those receivers are not getting open You don't have one, right?

Because he's not as good as a receiver. Let's just say he's blocking. And you never mentioned tight ends up. Titans block every position. Hold on, hold on. Exactly. So they're an offensive linemen and a receiver. So how is the tight end going to be factored into this equation,

which he's trying to explain to you? But no, let's just say he's not in this equation, right? He's blocking because you have to be blocked up. We need max protection because our quarterback's getting beat up, let's say, right? So you only have three receivers. We can go four receivers, right? If those guys aren't catching the ball, how are you advancing the ball down the field? I throw a screen.

That doesn't work. Come on now. Come on. You can only. You're not going to do anything. I thought you can. I don't. Okay.

My receivers are useless, bro. It's just a useless position. Not in that moment that Hatchett just explained. And that match you just explained, they are the most important person. That one moment. It's not one. How many third downs in the game? There's 15 to 20 third downs in the game.

Right? You're going to have two, two-minute situations in every game. So you're talking about out of all of those plays, you take out the receivers. You cannot advance the ball. And how many times have you seen... No, no, no. You can have receivers. They just don't have to be that good.

They could be a guy who's a bouncer in one oak. But what if they don't catch it? Because you want to know what guys who are average that play receivers? They don't catch the ball. Number one. Why can't they catch the ball? Hold on the end of the end of the NFL receivers. Wait, no.

Can you catch that? Let me see that. Let me see that ball over there. Let's talk about Tom Brady. Get that ball. No, no, no, no. Let's talk about. Let me see it.

This is easy to catch. 100%. You just dropped it. You see it on my elbow. So I would have, I would have... I would have... What are you talking about? You're saying you...

You're saying... You see that? You see that? That was horrible. Not with the chest. Catch with the hands. Only horse catch with the chest. But to your point,

Do you see why... Do you see why the new... Do you see that? You see that? You see that here straight, bro? the New England Patriots suffered just for the... How many rings they suffer with?

Dude, we're talking to stay on the course. Look at their wide receivers. Wes Welker is 5-2. But he was a player. He should be working to keep their health house. That's not a true statement. That's a dude. Why did the Patriots suffer this year?

Because they didn't have a receiver or a tight end to get open. That was his frustration. Now, you know what? To your point. You make a good point. I'm just telling you. Now that one year when the Patriots had

arguably the greatest wide receiver in history, What do they end up doing at the end of the season? They lost in the Super Bowl. They lost in the Super Bowl. Because these elite wide receivers don't help you win. They do help you win when they use in the right way. To help them, why didn't they win the Super Bowl?

So you think it's Randy Moss fault? No, no, no. I'm not saying it's Randy Moss his fault. I'm not saying that. But to his point, you're going to need some dynamic receivers. No, to his point, it was a very not smart conversation. you're having because if you take linemen out, it's the same thing.

You take receivers out, it's the same thing. You take the quarter. It's all the same. You need 11 people. Football is the best, right? Team sport. It's an amazing team sport. It's an amazing sport because 99% of people watch it

have no fucking clue what's going on. They're still entertained by it. I am ignorant to what happens. I can't describe what a nickel defense. I can't do all this kind of stuff. I don't understand what's going out. So you shouldn't be having the conversation. All I can go off is data.

He thinks he could come a bowl for you all right now. Oh, I could definitely. I could definitely. I could lie well down. Shultz's, he can do heart surgery. And then... He played one-on-one with Jay Williams.

He challenged Jay Williams. Jay Williams spotted him six points. That's buckets, though. That's bucket. Can you move? Can you hoop? Can you? I was a seven-point game.

Oh, no, you don't want to smoke. I don't want to see me. Because I want to see you try to cover T. Dude, I first want to see that. I'm the best athlete in this room. No, you're not. You're the second best athlete in the... I can't say who's better.

I just know that. If you got analytics, then you would know. Okay, smart guy. I don't know his analytics. You don't know my analytics. I'm a dude. Okay. You're a dude.

There we come. What's it? I know. We say, we got to say that. So we say dude and sports, that means he's an elite guy. Elite guy. That's what I mean. That being said, I can definitely, there are elite receivers and there are game changers.

Yeah. Playmakers. What are you? I'm one of those two that I mentioned. I'm a playmaker and I'm a game changer. I'm saying, what do you think is higher? Because me, elite is higher. Well, I think an elite receiver is a game change.

Yes, I'm saying. But do you think that you could catch a pass if I was defending you now? That's not even a... Why are you even answering the question? What? That's not even a question. Have you ever seen Pros v. Joe's? Listen, of course.

You're just like, Winnett, when we played... I beat everyone. First of all, this is equivalent... I'm undefeated. I'm undefeated against pros. This is equivalent when we played, when I was with the Niners, and we played the New York Giants. I won't even touch.

And they had Jason Seahorn. I'm not about to let a white boy check me. Hey. He just called you. I love when it turns the race, man. This is a white man. Jason Seahor's a white boy. You got a white man right here.

You kind of look like him. You look like Seahorn, actually. Here's a thing. You look like. None of us look alike. Andrew Shultz is also a comedian. Yeah. Okay.

But with the first conversation, right now, nothing's funny. No, I get it. I would have never know. Here's a thing. Here's a thing. would have never know. I don't. Never know.

So look, at the line, here's the thing. I won't even check you at the line. What is checked? That's a problem. That's the problem. I play football on the streets, bro. I didn't do this bougie thing. That's a problem.

I don't know. Professional shit y'all do here. I'm out here in the hood playing football. We say check at the line. That's where it stayed. I won't even do the thing why push you back and you fall. You know what I mean? Look at the size of these motherfuckers.

It's a misposition. You know what they said? This is interception. That's what that is right there. What does that mean about you when you still get his hands? The way he would, because to us he's saying press, and if a DB comes up and presses like this, it's a rat. Like, you better get down here and maybe have one out like this,

extend your elbow. He's old. He's 59. And I was hilarious. There's no way, bro. What? Like this. Look, look.

Like this. I give you one little, one inch punch, Bruce Lee style, one little one inch punch. And you're going to go like this. You go, oh, God. Let's do it right now. And you can do button hook. How much? How many y'all did this?

Let's do it right now Let's do it right now Quick moving Let's go in the hall Hold on Let's go Let's go Go go good good

But listen Here's it Do you want me To press you at the line or no That's on you What you want But here's the thing Make it light on yourself

Light on myself Is honestly Light on myself Is I just shadow you Because you can't beat me With speed So there's no way I like that

I have new sneak New balance What's your thing Matthew I got new balance Bro, it's got balance in the world. We should do it right now. I'm supposed to...

Just a little throw. Just a little throw, let's do it. First of all, he's already beat. He's already beat. He's already beat. I don't have speed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't known for speed anyway.

I know that. That's why I said it. Okay, I'm gonna leave this guy. Google me and see if I've ever been caught from behind. Listen, that's your personal life, bro. I don't want to get into that. What's that? You know what?

What's that word? What language is that? Hey. He just called you to Michael Sam of Wari-Teevichers. You didn't even catch it. Yeah, he's Michael Samgy. He's Michael Samson. I like this guy.

Where's Michael? He's not in the XFL? No. You know what I wanted to ask you? We didn't get a chance to talk during the interview. How did you feel about Andy Reed winning the Super Bowl? I was, honestly, I was happy for him. And for me, like I said, playing in Philly and obviously the way the things went down,

you know, me not being able to, you know, continue on. I got suspended my second year. And then just the way our first year went, like, I like, that's what they brought me to Philadelphia to do to help get them beyond the four NFC championships that they had been to prior. And as I mentioned to you earlier, earlier, some of the guys they can attach to, Brian Westbrook has said it. Brian Dawkins, those guys know I brought an energy over there. I brought swag over there. And that, and that took them through the playoffs.

When I had gotten hurt, you know, being dragged down for the horse collar and I was injured, that energy that I brought. throughout the course of the season that propelled throughout the playoffs. So for me, like I felt like I let the city down, you know, because that's what I wanted. You know what I mean? I wanted to get to the Super Bowl. We played in the Super Bowl. I played with two screws and a plate in my ankle. I thought they said you had a broke leg, which you didn't.

I did. I had a broken ankle. Wow. No, I had two screws and a plate in my ankle. And one in your head. A severely sprained ankle and my fibler was broken. And so that, the only thing that bothered me was the break. So when I went out pregame or what have you, they tried to tape my ankle up.

That was the worst thing to do because it hurt really bad. So I went back inside, talked to Rick Berker, who's still with Andy, won a Super Bowl. He's a head trainer for the Chiefs as well. And so I went in and I told him, I said, dude, I said, up by my knee. I said, the break is hurting really bad. So what he did was he basically just took some tape because when you walk and you distribute your weight distribution, your bones naturally spread. And so that's what was bothering me. So they basically just put some tape around it that kind of eliminated it, eliminated some of the pain.

And so I was good to go. And so, again, I tried to do everything within my power. I knew that I wasn't 100%, but I gave it all that I had, knowing that prior to getting to Philly, when I got to Philly, how the fans embraced me, going to Lehigh University, having 10,000 plus people that I practice every day, that's what really made me want to really play in that Super Bowl. even though, like said, I even had to sign a waiver just to play in the Super Bowl. So the team... What did the waivers say? So they wouldn't be liable because the doctor that performed my surgery, he didn't medically clear me. Wow.

So I couldn't just be on the football field. Otherwise, somebody was going to be liable. So I had to sign that waiver in order to play in the Super Bowl. Why was it that important to you, though? Because you had a future after that game. So why was that so important? If you realize that was the only Super Bowl I ever played in. Yeah.

You know, so again, you know, everybody, if you're unlike the Patriots, you're not going to going to get to the Super Bowl very, very often. And so for me, I just felt like within my power, everything that I had done throughout the course of my career, like I'm a man, I'm a God-fearing man. I was raised in the church. My grandmother always told me just put faith in him and you can do anything that, you know, you put your mind to. And that was pretty much the premise of why I wanted to get back on the field.

It wasn't trying to outshine or anybody. I knew that if God gave me that ability and the trainers put everything that they did behind me to get on that football field and I could play. then that's what I was going to do. Matthew, let me ask you because I want an objective opinion on this. Does that help or hurt a team, right? Theo hasn't played in a while. It comes back.

He's not 100%. They might have established a different type of chemistry. Yep, yep. Does that help for her? At that time, it helps because that's your superstar. And when Kevin Durant came back, right, for that game, that energy that's in the building, that's in the city, it definitely helps.

It helps every player, especially the role players. Because, again, don't forget, they won two playoff games. So the role player is like, I've done my portion. I've raised my level up, but I might not be able to do it this third game. I'm glad I got my big brother back. You know what I'm saying? So it definitely helps in all those scenarios. And I would have thought that was the approach that Donovan would have taken with me being out, you know, those two playoff games.

You know, he's been politically correct all his life. You know what I mean? But when it came to me for some odd reason. Maybe he don't like you, dog. Like I said, that's what I took from it. What is it against me that you just like? I think it was. I don't know. If you're going to get mad at anybody, why not get mad at the media for asking you that question? But you've been politically correct. Every other answer, why not be politically correct when it came to me about, you know, whether I was going to play or not? He could have found a number of ways to answer about me not, you know, not being, you know, not being available to play in the Super Bowl. Why do you think he started taking shots at you now? That was like last month.

It was last year, a couple of weeks ago. I honestly, I don't know. And so for me, like I said, I thought it was dead. I thought it was done. I had. I've seen him a few times after that. We've played in Larry Fitzgerald softball game on the team, whatever. I thought everything was cool. But at the end of the day, like I said, you know, when you're trying to stay relevant for whatever reason, and as I mentioned to you earlier, I've never been in the off-the-field,

had any off-to-field problems, any issues. For somebody, for him, the league, the team, guys have put him in such high regard. Who's had the most off-the-field issues? How many DUIs have he had? How many meat sexual, soft situations? That's what I'm saying. He called me dues?

Yeah, he's on that list, bro. So again. Really? I always like I said, bro, hero. Yeah, I appreciate their question about accountability. Bro, I've always been accountable for what I've done. And even when people have accused me of things that I haven't done, I'm always going to defend my character.

The reputation is what people think of you. And like, for me and my character, I'm proud of who I am. I'm proud of who my grandma. the race. And so after all of that, if I'm such the bad person that the media has portrayed me to be all the years, you would think that it would translate a transfer to post football. So you and Donovan never had a meal together? Y'all never had any type of relationship. After he cursing me out in the huddle, bro, I canceled all of that. Really? It would be like I said, you don't know, we teammates or whatever. I'm in the huddle.

And I don't throw you. I'm, you're me. I'm, I'm, I'm Donovan. You come to me, I'm like, T, I was open on this play. I don't want no fucking suit. So I'm going to give you this scenario. So we don't work on this play. I think it was the Browns or the John. I can't remember who it was. But we ran this particular play.

I'm number one in the progression. The play worked to a T in practice. We didn't even have to tell that sometimes they'll scheme and tell the defense what to do. But we didn't even have to do that just because the play was so potent. Did it in practice number of times. Did it in the game. It worked to a T.

Everybody knew the play was coming up. I ran the route, ran to the sideline, the defender bit, I'm up to sideline, I'm wide open. He doesn't even throw the ball. So before I even, before I even just judge anything, I come back to the huddle, because I didn't see what was going on. So I'm thinking, okay, maybe he got flushed out of the pocket or whatever the case may be. I just, I said, dude, I was wide open.

Because when I came out of my route. What was your tone when you said that? No, no, no. I don't think you said, do not, no, no, no. That's the question. No, first, exactly. And I'm glad you asked that. My tone wasn't demonstrative.

It was no different than any other time. I was like, dude, I said, I was wide up. It was just me talking to him. No profanity, no nothing. No. Dude, he looked at me and told me, shut the fuck up. After that, bro, so I could have, I chose it. I could have addressed it in the hotel, but we were during the game.

I said, no, I'm going to chill out. We came out on that series. I even asked my position coach. I'm like, yo, I'm like, what happened on that? My coach looked at me with kind of like just bewilder. He's like, I don't know. I said, was he flushed out of pocket? he's like nothing.

So after the game, I went to my locker, we're in the locker room. I waited, like I said, at this time, like I said, I know the perception. So I know people thinking,

oh, he's going, you know, he's destroying the locker room. There's always something. So I waited to the locker room, cleared out. It was a couple of people

in the area while we were getting dressed. And before he left out of the area, I just addressed him. And I said, look, I said, dude, at the end of the day,

I said, I'm a man, you, man, I said I didn't come at you sideways or what have you. All I said was I was open. I said, don't ever dress me like that again. And so from that point on... Did he say something back to you right there, though?

You believe that? Did he respond to him? Like, when you said that, did he respond back? I can't remember what his response was, but he looked at me, addressed it or whatever. But at that point, I was like, girl, I just couldn't take the disrespect. Because if you look at it from a quarterback position, right, when that happened, if he would address it, he should have been like, well, look, something happened on that play, which He was frustrated and he took out his frustration on you during the moment.

Right. But you took that as an apology, but you're saying that never happened. That never happened. And the thing is, I already asked the coaches what had a bird's eye view. Yeah. I mean, something could have happened though. Right. Exactly.

But they're watching again. My coach is not going to lie to me. I ask him, I said, well, what happened on the ride? He's like, I don't know. I said, well, he flushed out of the pocket. No, there was no reason for him not to throw the ball. And I was number one in progression. Maybe it weren't open.

That's what I'm trying. I'm not talking to you. Maybe I'm not talking to. Because I'm saying from the quarterback position. I think you were locked up like I would lock your ass up on that same play. Probably. You thought you thought. Security.

Can we get the heckler? And then I come. You sound ridiculous. Dude, I also want to say to. I'm just saying, I'm right there. Because you're raped. When we talk about Donovan McNabb, we said to me too, I want to be clear about that. It was sexually harassing a colleague.

He sent a colleague a lewd text message. I don't want people to think that he was... Okay, because it's levels to it, right? That's why this I said it was something sexual... Some sexual misconduct. Yeah, it's not saying that's wrong, but I mean, you know... There's levels. You guys have sent little text messages before, I'm sure.

You know, why is that a bad? Oh, in the workplace, it's bad. Right, in the workplace, and he's married. Oh, I didn't know that. Huh? Huh? I never... Teach.

Huh? You can't do it. They're gonna... What's you mean? You can't... But he said he didn't... When Teelto's... He throws out of a bus.

He says I did a bus. He says, I didn't... You're like, he's, that ain't under the butt. You don't just get into that. What is his wife? How is that under the butt? That's just the real. He is.

I'm just saying he's married. Come on. Why can't I say he's married? He let somebody else say that. We're guys. At the end of the end of the time. Yeah, that's bro code, right? It's bro code.

Bro code too, cussing me out. No, bro code is you got to, you know, curse somebody out. It is what it is. On the football field, shut the fuck up. Yeah. I'm sure you told somebody shut the fuck up. I'm not. No, no, I would never.

No, I was a great teammate. I've never done that. That's the thing. Your perception is, again, because of me to portrayal, you would think that I would say something like that. I would definitely think you would say something like that. But I've never, but you know it. But you know what?

No, no, no. No, no. No, but no. You're saying throw me the effing ball would be the same thing as him saying shut the up. How are they going to throw you the ball if I'm here? But I never told him. I'm just, I'm just, it's impossible.

But just being real, like you, yeah, perception-wise, yeah, yeah, you would think that. But you know me. And you've been around me and I'm not going to say anything like that. That's the thing. You seem like you got a different level of discipline though. I mean, I can tell just by the way you work out. That's just how, bro, I've never been giving anything.

Yeah. Like, growing up in Alexander City, Alabama, seeing guys that were better than I was, not playing, sitting on the bench. That's football, basketball. Not, you know, I was running track just to get myself better. Knowing that I didn't have me speed, I wouldn't run in any sprint.

I wouldn't run no hunters. I wouldn't run any 200. that wasn't me. What was your 40 time? Coming out of college, coming out of college, I ran a 4-6-3. Oh, you get locked up.

Right. But that's me, Doc. Exactly. No, no. Wait, who clocked you as a 4-3 off the block? Who clocked you as a 4-3?

You're on? I got a guy, man. A guy? I got a guy. When you see this, this is wrong again. But tell me, how many track people have to be 5-7 and got size

14-2. You cannot be a 4-3. I'm a dude. There's a lot of people. The game is pretty can't have me. But you can have speed. Look at I like the feet are, dog. Look at I like the feet are, dog.

I hear you. So that ain't like that. That was heavy. That was heavy. The whole building's shaking when you're right. The building goes shake. The building goes shake to you. What's your 40 time, man?

Other four three coming out. That's right. That's four three. But there's, there's track. Yeah. He got faster as he. And there's game speed. I wasn't track speed.

Just so you can don't throw that in there. No, no. I'm not saying that you're going fast. I say that. You can't say that. you can't say after there's track speed because it sounds like you were saying. No, no, it had nothing to do with you.

No, you're making sure. There was a number of guys that was faster than me coming out, coming out of high school college. Most of them. Most of them. As I said, you've never seen me get caught from behind him. And when I've caught the ball,

and when I caught the ball, and when I got horse-caller if you didn't get caught from my heart, and when I caught the ball. That's a good question. How you got a horse-colled if you didn't get caught from my arm? It was a game called angles. It's a game of angles. I don't know what angles are.

I just go straight and I lock people down. which you're not. You're going to be called for them angels when I'm playing defense. That's what happened. There's game speed and then there's track speed. If that's the case,

there'd be a lot of track guys that are going out for football. You know what I mean? But like said, there's the game encompasses more than just speed. There's a lot of skill set that you have to have

in order to play the game, especially receiver. Like a check. He wouldn't even get... That's horrible. He can't even get into XFL right now. He can't get in high school. He can't play high school ball right now.

I can't play high school ball because that's illegal. You can't even show your way. I got to a team. I got it. He's a comedian. He's a comedian. I'm a comedian.

But when we get on the field, when we're on the grid iron. You're still funny. Do you know what I mean? I'm going to be funny, but honestly, the joke's on you, bro. No. The joke's on you, T. No. Does he remind you with Skip Bayless?

Does this guy? No, I'm not even going to give him that much credibility. That hurt. Skip. That hurt. That was deep, bro. You hit too deep on that one. You treat me like Donovan.

Skip pay less. who you'd be. Skip, pay less. What do y'all do, like, I guess, like when you missed the game? Like, what do y'all do to fill that ball? I never was a, I'm a basketball fan. Like, he's, he, you know, like,

no, we're joking around, but he knows. I very seldom watch football. He doesn't watch ball. I'll watch it sometimes, like, just to talk about it and certain, bro, I never thought I was going to play, bro. I became very competitive, and I was a late broom, and then I started to realize my skill set.

And like said, going to the Niners, I saw what the best receiver was, the greatest receiver was at that time. And so, again, when I say I'm grateful and thankful for the coaches that helped me and saw my potential, then I truly mean that because they saw what I was capable of and I believed them. When I didn't, sometimes probably didn't even believe in myself

when I got drafted. I didn't think that I was going to end up two, three, whatever, behind Jerry Rice or being conversations with- Yeah, number one. Who's the greatest receiver of all times? time. Jerry. Jerry.

What about Chris Ogan? No. And then you think about Randy Mark. What about Chris though, dude? To be in the conversation with those guys, bro, trust me. Edelman?

It's mind-boggling because I never thought it. Do you think you're better than Edelman? Wait a minute. Who's number one, man? If it's not Jerry Wright. I play with both of them. Randy's number one. Randy's number one, dude.

And the reason is because. So, Randy don't matter in football then. Rings don't matter. No, because of the number of people, right, the number of people that are involved, right? If you take the, if you take two players, you have to put two players on one, which that's what, again, that's why, yeah. But I play with Jerry too. Jerry couldn't do the things Randy could do, period. He cannot run like Randy.

No, no, I couldn't either. And he couldn't do anything else that Randy could do. Now, when you talk about a complete receiver, what could Randy do? I'm a, he barely went over the middle. That's, okay, okay, stop. That was one. When you talk about complete, you got one. You got one.

Now, if I have film and I show him running slants and taking it for 60, but consistently, that he, nobody did it consistently. He's no, yeah, I did. He's known for catching a deep, going over the top of people. That's not a true statement. That's what people, that's what they know him from. Just because they know him, that's not what, that's not all he was doing, right? When you think of Randy Maltz, what do you think of?

I mean, those are the highlight, really? There's a highlight real. Right. Snatching it out to highlight. I have a touchdown. That's always highlights. I get it's never a highlight. Unless you take it 60, right?

So the best run after catch guy in the last 30 years is, right? Honestly, he was. The best run after catch. Right? That's T. Okay. That's the best run after catch. Okay.

All the other skills, nobody had a better skill than Randy. Catching, running, nobody had a better skill than Randy. Now, if you take. You're trying to say that, Jared, that's disrespectful. What could Jerry physically do better than Randy? You can't name one. What do you mean? Physically, he was the only guy that I ever seen catch up to a ball.

Right? You've never seen me. I've caught up to some balls. I've seen you. Wow. Pause. Pause the balls. That's not like a lewd text message.

Go ahead. You want to catch up? You want to catch up on some balls? I'm about to catch your balls. He said a catch up to a ball. I thought the same thing. You didn't sound the same. You didn't sound to say.

You have to make it plural. But no, because the thing about, the thing about you, I can take 50 of your touchdowns, right? Here's one thing. You take 50 of T's touchdowns. I can show you 50 of his and there'll be nobody in the screen. Right? Because he out-randed them, let's say.

Right? That's a compliment the T. Yeah, I appreciate it. I can take 50 of Randy's touchdowns and there's three to four people in the scene, which means Randy went up and caught the ball over three or four people. or he outduled them for that ball. That was a skill that Randy had that nobody else could do because of that six.

Well, because that's what I'm saying. To us as a receiver, making a play is going up and jumping over. Go get the ball, dude. It's going to get the ball. Go get it. You see what I'm saying? Yes, 100%. I agree with you on everything.

Run after catch. Now he would have eight people he would run through and stiff arm and go score. So he had that skill. He was the number one in the last 30 years to do that, hands down. Who? T.O. T. What it was?

Run after. the catch. What does he rank to you then? T? He's number two. Whoa. Hold on. So you think it's Moss?

Yes. T. O. Yeah. Then Jerry. You're really trying to stay on this podcast, huh? You know what this to break up? That's very admirable of him.

It's very admirable of him. What do you rank yourself as? I thought if you want to, if he wants to put Randy at number two, Jerry one and T.O.1A. See, I just don't put Jerry in there. Because Jerry had. everything for him. The quarterback, the quarterback number one. That's not a discredit. No, I'm not discredit.

I'm just saying he had more help. No, no, no, he's right. No, no, he's right. You had a, you had a Joe Montana to Steve Young. He didn't have a, he didn't have a drop off. So how do we define greatness? Is it numbers or rings? No, rings have nothing to do it. Rings have nothing to do it. When you talk about everybody. Because there are a number of great players that didn't have a ring. Barry Sanders didn't have a ring.

The very guy that you're talking about. Dan Marino didn't have a ring. That's right. Randy Moss. Alex. Alex, what about, what about, Randy Moss is great. He doesn't have a ring. Right.

There's a number of guys that are great that doesn't have a ring. So it doesn't define you. Sometimes guys are just getting lucky. To be on the right team. There's a number of guys that you don't even know of. They got Super Bowl rings. So you think they're better than me? Yeah.

You're saying, yeah, I'm agreeing with you, yeah. Oh, okay. That's the first. That's a good. We got there. We're making progress. No, we are. So the green jacket means more than the ring.

But do you think. Absolutely. What the players say, if the players were to do the top one, which they should have the players do it and not some writers, that list would be totally different. There's a corner. It's probably the top three corners that ever played his game, and he'll never be in the hall.

And his name is Dale Carter. If you talk to any receiver or DB in the last 30 years, they will put Del Card in the top three ever as a corner. But he'll never be in the hall. He's a dog, though. He was a dude. Why won't he be in the hall? Because he media, you know, was a Doug compared to what the media thought he was.

But he doesn't fit the. the criteria. He wasn't a great teammate to everybody. What all that stuff that they want to see now, he wasn't that dude. But when to go out and go out and take away your number one receiver and do it every game all game. All right, let's take a break from Schultz

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Now let's get back to the show. What is your opinion on, excuse me, there was a little beef recently between, oh my God, I can't believe I'm blanking on his name, but the, Richard Sherman? Yeah, Sherman and Dereil Revis. Dereil Revis. What is your take on Sherman, first of all? You guys, he's a good, he's a good, solid corner. And so was Dorel Revis. But again, if you take those two corners, and you put them from 2005 to 2015 or 2008 to 2018, they're still not going up against number one receivers and taking them away. So neither one can talk. Not even Dorel?

I thought Dorel just shut down. Did you see what Moss did that boy? When he made him pull up? There was no way. He was never going to go up against T, Moss, Julio Jones, one-on-one with no safety over the top. Neither one would do it. So I'm not putting them in those lockdown. So back in the day, that used to be the case where it would be.

be one guy. Del Carter, Dion Sanders, James Hastie, those type of players. Safety was in the middle of the field and the corner was one-on-one, that's a true one-on-one. What Dorell is saying, there's a safety over the top whenever Richard Sermon's going one-on-one, so that's help. Because he's in the cover two. A cover two, like a two-shell. Right. Right. And he also doesn't travel, right? He just plays one side of the ball. Yeah, that doesn't mean anything. Right. And then again, if a guy doesn't, if a guy doesn't travel, maybe that's just a defense philosophy or their scheme. Right, right.

Yeah, if a guy wants to say, oh, let me travel with this guy, then yeah, kudos for him. But if that doesn't fit the scheme of a defense, then you can't discredit a guy for what what the team is requiring of him. Right, right, right. That's fair. It's like blaming you for not running the ball. Exactly. That's not your position.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, fine. But again, I just thought that was, it was kind of a petty argument. But, again, Sherman is on his way, you know, he's trending down as far as physically, his He just can't keep up with some of the guys and for him to kind of take that one play out where the dude ran right by him. Like that's going to happen because, again,

no corners out there can cover a receiver one-on-one all game right now. Just receivers are too good. How do you know when enough is enough? Your body will tell you, my personal opinion. Your body starts to just, getting up is just different at the age of 28 and 32. Like you just, you're hurting, you're sore,

it's like you can't recover. You could fall down or you can get hurt in on a Sunday and be back on, Wednesday. But when you start, okay, I got to skip Wednesday's practice. And then Thursday, I'm kind of back. And then Friday, I'm barely back. Like your body kind of tells you. And I, and I didn't realize it either because when you're playing, you're always going to think, okay, you can play. You can continue to play on and on and on. But I started to listen. No, you try to listen to your body, but even the coaches, they noticed, too, like when I had a day of rest,

this was later on in my career, especially when I was with Buffalo. And so they saw, like, if I had a day day of rest, the next day my energy was, they saw I was just flying. It was a noticeable difference of a day of rest versus just practicing back to back to back. So that's how you know, like, okay, obviously, you know, father time catches up, but it's all about how you take care of your body too. So nutrition, everything that I did, you know, leading up throughout the course of my career, that's what factored in and enabled me to play the number of years that I did.

And eating healthy, like I said, the nutrition part, it allowed me to bounce back from injuries as well and recover from injuries. Yeah, I was a bubble guy. I could never take a day off. I don't know. I could get cut at any time. Like, you know how you said take a day off? If I were to take a day off, no, that wasn't happening. I had to go out there and practice.

Did y'all fuck a lot? Like, you know how I'm fighting, like, when you box? That's hilarious. You boxed kids, like, just came out like a regular question. You all like. Training camp, I didn't have sex. I didn't have sex during training. Wait, don't you have a crazy.

story. I never, I never even thought about it. To be honest. Because there are times like this, you've had, sometimes like, I'm sure, I don't know, boxers say they abstain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I've, I've, it's just like sleep. Like, I've had some of my best games and not even sleep that well versus sleep in eight hours feeling like, okay, you need the, the maximize your rest time. Gotcha.

But sometimes sleep deprivation, that has been sometimes, like, been the best thing that happened to me. Sometimes a lack of sleep or not sleeping enough, short on sleep, best games. as far as like having sex, you know, night before, whatever. If you can do it, if it happens then, yeah. I mean, it's no different. I'm sure guys jack off. What's the difference?

Fun? Well, I mean, it's a little bit more physically demanding. Right, but you're still exerting a lot of energy. You're still, you know. Yeah. You're getting the come out of your balls. I hear you. Wasn't there a story where, like, you wanted to, you, like, you dated your neighbor?

And then it turned out it was like You were related or something like that? No, that was, no, no, that's how I found out who my dad was. Okay. Like, I'm a preteen. I'm like 11, 12. Yeah.

I live with my grandmother. It's a neighborhood full of kids. Right across the street, there were a house full of girls. Four girls. And I didn't know at that point, that time, that playing, playing, you know, what are we playing?

Kickball or whatever. Females in the neighborhood. I'm a preteen. I started liking girls. I started liking one of the girls in the neighborhood. They happened to live right across the street. I used to go across street, watch TV, hang out with everybody. Come to find out.

One of the girls that I ended up liking was my sister. I didn't know that my dad, that was my dad at that point of time. So at the end of the day, that's the gist of that story. Y'all don't have any physical attributes like? No, no. No, I mean, at that time, like I said, you don't know. Yeah, you don't really. Like an avatar.

You don't really think of that. And for me, like I said, being a preteen, that wasn't the furthest thing, you know, in my mind. Like, okay, it's female. You like a girl. So how did it come to your attention? Did your dad say it? No, because, again, like I said, they started saying that I was questioning one of my sisters. So the one that I was liking was Lisa.

So everybody was like, oh, Terrell likes Lisa, you know. And so I got back to my dad. So we had that conversation. Like, yo, you can't like Lisa, blah, blah, blah. And why, whatever. Lisa is your sister. So that was pretty much the gist. How are you and your father not?

Because I saw y'all on fix my life back in the day. I mean, we're cool. I mean, I think he kind of made some efforts after that show. There was even some incidents where he agreed to do the show. And then he kind of backed out of it. Then Yala, you know, kind of talked to him and, you know, encouraged him to be on the show. But, I mean, the show didn't really fix your life. It didn't.

It didn't fix your relationship. I mean, but other than that, like I said, it was good for me to. Fix it for a little bit, though. I think acknowledge, you know, kind of, you know, and even get some questions answered, you know, that I never really asked, you know, as I grew up. Because I never asked my mom like, okay, well, what happened and why this, why that. So being on the show, like I said, that was the first time I ever saw my mom and dad sit in the same room, you know, for more than five minutes. So, you know, again, I young obviously being sure who she is and hosted a show like she encouraged, you know, me to ask those hard. questions and even them. So for me, it was fulfilling. I think it opened a lot of people's eyes

and exposed them to kind of like how I grew up, who I am, what I'm about. And then again, there are a number of relationships that are broken that were similar to mine. And so I mean, I even after the show ran into people, you know, on the streets that said that it gave them courage to reach out to their mom or their dad that they didn't ever really had a relationship with or try to fix, you know, their strange relationship. Did it make you feel like a better man? Did you feel like he was missing something? I mean, I think...

Closer to the wholeness? Well, the way that I am with my kids, I think, you know, I'm a better father to my kids than my dad was to me. And I think that was kind of a way to look at it, you know, as far as how I would like my relationship to be with my kids. You know, I think now it's something I never really got to experience, you know. And so now with my kids. you know, just sharing that time, being around them.

And then, you know, it's quality over quantity. You know, although I'm not in the same household, I try to make the time that I do spend with them quality time and make it count. What do you learn that from, though? Like, what do you learn how to be a good father when you didn't have an example of one? You know, through life. Yeah, just life. And I think you just, you just, you kind of know what you miss.

You know what I mean? And I know how I felt when I didn't have a father. And I didn't really have any uncles or big brothers to lean on. So again, when I talk about, you know, my coach is being, you know, father figures to me. And I can look at other people's relationships and see how they are with their family or what have you. And just that absence of a father and that father figure in my household. And I know how I felt, you know, I know what now to offer my kids. So and then like I said, life is precious.

I mean, think about what just happened with Kobe. You see the pictures. Lord of mercy. Yeah. Those things right there, it would make you want to have a relationship with your kids. But for whatever reason, we asked my dad, you know, those hard questions as to why he didn't do certain things or what have you. He gave us our answer. And I gave it the answer and I can only respect that and then move on from it.

So now, like I said, to be in a position, to be a dad, be a father to my kids, I think I'm doing a good job. Kobe was a big Philly fan. Did y'all have a relationship? Yep, yep. met Kobe in 99 when I was with the Niners, went down with a teammate

Merton Hanks. That was my first NBA game. It was a Laker game. Got to meet Kobe afterwards. Took a picture. It took a picture. It's on my social media. And then I didn't learn

that he was a Philly fan until I was actually playing with the Eagles. And so I got a chance to, you know, talk to him, like went to several Laker games while in L.A.

You know, talk to him, you know, after games. got to meet his wife, his kids at that time. He didn't have the last two. I met him early on, but again, so I saw him last season was with his oldest daughter, Natalia. She played at Seychelles High School, and my daughter plays at volleyball at Culver City High School. And so they played each other.

So, you know, I didn't know he was at the gym. I didn't know who they were playing. I just walked in the gym. He was up in the stand. And so he saw me. We ended up just conversing. chatting it up and, you know, again, he was talking about business, talking about being a father, supporting his kids. And that's what I was doing too, being there supporting my daughter.

That's something, again, I never experienced, you know, with my dad. So just now to be present in my kids' life, you know, I think that's, that's the most remarkable thing. Because these are things that make lasting impressions on your kids. And so for me, like I said, you know, it hurt me deeply. Like I said, I almost get choked up talking about it because he was an inspiration to me, just as Michael Jordan. Like I said, I didn't know anything about football. But when you think about some of the greatest to ever play the game and you see people that make impacts in people's lives and be a barometer for success, Michael Jordan was that guy for me. And then I witnessed and I watched Kobe, you know what I mean, watching him and just having, like I said, not an extensive conversation, but I watched how he worked. you know, everybody talk about that mama mentality.

I had that sort of same approach with just not to the empty degree that he did because that was his passion. That was his dream. He wanted to be the greatest basketball player to ever live, like behind Michael Jordan. He wanted to be the closest thing to Michael Jordan that we've ever seen. And I think he is, that was the best clone we've ever saw, you know, to Michael Jordan. And so for me, that's what I, once I'm. I saw and realized my abilities and the coaches made me know that the potential that I had,

that was something that I strived for. And I feel like I did it with my dedication, my desire, my dedication, my discipline. I got to be the best receiver that I could be for myself, knowing that Jerry Rice was the greatest of all time. And y'all say, y'all know each other 20 years, right? Yeah, yeah. And we joke about it. We joke about, like I said, we always talk about, you know, he feels like, you know,

you know, Minnesota had the first big three before they had these big three. We did. We changed. Ideally, he wasn't even a part of the big three. Wow. That was, he doesn't seem like he's part of this podcast. Hey.

Hey. So then we have it, ladies and gentlemen, the T.O. T.O. We gave him a lot of love. Okay. We gave him, I, you see, I doubt. Oh, you got to talk too much. That's what you said.

Oh, that's what you said. I doubt it. You know what? I doubt it down a bit. CDG, I doubt it down because I know you got a lot of viewers. Now people know who hatchies. I'm trying to get this guy.

Who is this guy? That's what I want to know. Who's the new guy? Who's the new guy? I'm just saying. Oh, my goodness. You're the worst ever. When teams game planned us,

that was three receivers that you had to look out for. And for us, it was four. Jerry, JJ and myself. Not when you were young. They didn't look out for you. They did not. You are not in the game plan. You are not in the game plan.

No. It wasn't the T.O. that became a heart fan, but it was a young Tio. It was one of those guys guys. It was one of those guys. It was one of those guys to go 80 on y'all. Didn't I know about Matthew? Didn't I go 80 on y'all? Didn't I go 80 on y'all? That was one of his six touchdowns that he had. Gosh dang right. You didn't go 80. Eight year illustrious career. You had an 80 y'all touchdown? Against these bums. Wow. Yeah. And he over there. Well, let me guess. You were hurt that game. No, I wasn't. I didn't even recognize it. I didn't even know you had it until you just told me. This guy. Okay. Now, how would they scheme? for you early on in your career. They didn't scheme for him. Nobody schemes for a number three receiver. They scheme for the same to throw at you? But let him beat us. We already knew Jerry was our number one.

Right. So to go through those progression, you have a two, three, and a four. Right. And that's usually the tight end. Like I said, I'm being honest, I wasn't that guy. Yeah, the first three years, right.

But I was making my mark. I was emerging as an emerging. I was that guy becoming a star before everybody's eyes. but he can't sit up and say he was part of the big three what was the big three what was the big three okay so I'm gonna I'm gonna go where did he factor into this big three he ain't even 3.5

I'm about 3.5 so look the 98 Vikings team changed the way the whole NFL is seen right now okay because right you had Chris Carter 6 2-220 guy Jake Reed 6 322 guy Maul's 6-4-2-10 And then myself at 6-3-2-215, right?

4-3. Right, we set every single offensive record known demand that year. Right. The 98 draft, you saw all the defensive coordinators draft big, long corners because of what we were doing. And since that year, all you've seen were big receivers being drafted. We were 6-2 and 6-3 above. But y'all didn't set the record.

It doesn't about it. No, no, no. I'm talking about the record. It's different. offense to ever hit the league was not y'all. It was us. It was us. That means that was us. Okay, Gurdos, you can't be in this conversation.

Okay, kudos. You guys set the record. Thank you. I'm, I've got a good point. And since 98, all you've seen, that's called Julio. That's all you see. That's all you see now. Big receivers. All big. It's for those guys that he just mentioned, who was on the forefront of that. Except the Patriots.

Me. The teams that win. The Patriots. That's Tom Brady. Yeah. Tom Brady. Tom Brady. Since you been doing this podcast. Yeah, wreck, Terrell. Terrell.

What's T.O's favorite subject to talk about other than himself? That's it. First of all, I hear. There is no show without that. Tell. Do you have a...

Get your popcorn ready with T.O. and Hatch. Officially, here's his favorite. It'll come to talk about me. His favorite is his disappointment of him not making the top one... I'm sorry, of us not making the top 100.

There's no us in this. Because we both... didn't make the top 100. Top 100? Football players of all time. That was a big thing. That's his sore spot right now. But that's my thing.

How do you not make the top 100 if you're the 1A receiver? Exactly. Go ask Joe Horrigan, the guys that Blue Paragon, that 26 panel Blue Ribbon pass his favorite time. I mean, I think that's disrespectful. I think you should be in it. But there was a theory that you had earlier.

I remember listening to you where you said that the best receivers are white guys. did they help you win the Super Bowl the best? What? Can you expound on that? Who won the Oscars? Who won't Oscar? Hey, shout out to our one, Matthew Cherry, who won the Oscar?

Everybody watch a piece. Tune in to get your popcorn ready with T.O. and Hatch. Hashtack. On a Himalaya app or wherever you get your pie. Matt does movies. You did a few movies, right? I do. I do.

I did. I produced a few films. Yeah, produced crew with Keith Robinson and Richard T. Jones. and we swept the ABFF that year. So it was a critically acclaimed movie. The movie called Takers. The Tate. Brad Furman directed that with John Legazamo, Tyrese.

Rosie Perez. Rosie Perez was a beast in it. Bobby Kana Valle. So yeah, I like to be on the other side of the camera. I've done some on-camera stuff, but I like to kind of put the whole project together. I love Roli Perez. And I say this in the most respectful way possible.

The reason I love her is because she was like the first titty. Side titty. That people saw it. No, not the side. do the right thing when Spike Lee was rubbing the ice on. White men can't jump. And you just the first titty you ever saw it.

White man can't jump in the, when she was wearing the tautom. And you saw that side titty. But as a young boy, as an eight-year-old, you're like, that's the fun of the first. You were eight when that happened?

I don't know. How old are you? That was 30. That's because, you was 30 when the right thing came out? No, I'm saying you, you're probably 30-something. I'm saying it's probably 30-something.

It was probably 30 years ago. When was white men can't jump? I was when you could not yet I was born to 83 for you for you this morning I will I will jump on you

bro I will junk on you any day at a week No you cannot 92 92 yeah that's a minute to go 30 years you don't understand

my athleticism is deceptive because of the color of my skin okay but I have you know that I will yam it in your face Have you ever seen him play basketball? I saw him play against Jay Williams I seen him play

he puts stuff up on his Come on. Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's light work for me. Are there any white ways as you respect to you? The one of them get all the rings, the wide receivers that get old Chris Hogan.

You know, I respect Edelman. Edelman, Welker. I love Edelman's story. That's it. Just to be, you know, like said, a quarterback at Ken State, free agent, wasn't supposed to make it. And for him to do the things he's done as far as his career.

Yeah. To be one of the greatest wire receivers ever. He's, I wouldn't, you can't say that. I'm just saying the ones that win the rings. That's a whole different. Privilege, I guess. That's a legist. No, the white privilege is when he jumped on the hood of that car after the Super Bowl.

Nobody gave it. Right. Right. But if that would have been AB, they'll still be talking about it. Right now. Yeah, he'd be in jail right now for that. What's going on with AB right now? Don't change the subject.

That's who is white privilege. See? He got hot. But that's what happens. He got hot over here for a second. Right. But that's exactly. Get off the topic.

Dude. Right. But that's exactly what happens in mainstream media. What is the main? What you just tried to do, just tried to sweep it under the rug. He's like he hasn't done anything. Who started the coronavirus, Dio? But you want to highlight A-Map?

Is that why he was throwing up in the huddle? But you want to highlight A-B? What? See what I'm talking about? Because A-B's a loser, dude. He's a loser. Who? Who?

A-B. No, he's not. He's a loser. Yes, he is. You throw away his whole shit. Don't say that, but first of all, sometimes it's not about the money. Criticized Donovan McNabb for boozing before the Super Bowl, but not AB for throwing away his whole career. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Why did he throw it away? He has played like 9, 10 years already. He's had a career. What are you talking about? I think he was arguably the best. It was at least top three wide receiver in the game. I agree with that. And he could have made...

Oh, so you wanted him to go 20 years? You wanted him to play 50? Maybe he was done. He's out there begging Tom Brady to bring him back to miss you, bro. But he's already had his career, though. Miss you? You know what I'm saying? So he's cool.

But he's not cool. He wants back, but he didn't mishandle the last year. I agree with that 100. Yeah, he mishandled the last year. And we can be critical when people mishandle.

Tio, we're going to talk about you in a second, man. Come back. Hey, Tum, it's not about him on his phone, Googling himself.

What am I doing today? What's going on over there? It's a don't call. It's a polyvers. What's on my Instagram? Why don't I just DM? Hey, Tio, pay touch you what's going on.

Yeah, he's disrespectful. Yeah, he's disrespectful. Yeah, he's disrespect. He's disrespecting AB. I mean, this guy... He's disrespect himself, bro. No, I'm not condoning what he... I'm not...

I'm the biggest AB fan before all this nonsense. I'm not condoning what he's done. But again, everybody has made some mistakes. He's made a handsome number of them. Does he probably need to get some help in some way, shape, form of fashion? Absolutely. Has he mishandled some of those things, which we just agreed to? Absolutely.

But he didn't throw his career. say that he threw his career away. If he has, I'm talking about the chance to play again, I think he's thrown that way. I think he's throwing that away too. That's all I'm saying. Not what he's done prior. I think that he still has an opportunity to play. You're looking at 32 teams. He just needs to play for one team. He'd have to be perfect for these next six months. Trust me. And even if he were to get signed, there's going to be a lot of stipulations that goes into that contract. Yeah. You know what I mean? So again, and he knows, but he knows, and he knows

that. I'm an A.B. Like I said, and he knows I've gone to his house. I don't condone the conduct in which he's shown over the last few months. And I've even said that to him to his face. He knows that. I'm a realist. I went to talk to him as a person, as a man, as a friend, regardless of everything that's going on around him because clearly he didn't have

the people around him to steer him in the right direction. You didn't like the language he was using towards his baby mom. That and then in front of your kids. You know what I mean? So again, you got to, at some point like I said, you have to be a grown up. You have to be an adult. You have to be a father. You have to be something that you didn't experience in what you didn't have. And as I mentioned earlier, like said, we both share that same space. We didn't have fathers in our life, but we can make our kids lives better by being something and doing stuff that, you know, our dads didn't.

Let me stay right there on that father piece, right? So how do you know it's right if you've never seen it. That's real. Right? Because as a lot of African-American dads, right, that's the whole, well, how do you know what your dad wasn't around? But I mean, like, some things are just common sense. Oh, I, yeah, of course.

Some things are just common sense. Like you said, even women that have kids for the first time, they may not have had a mom, you know, you know, growing up. But you have to, they understand, they have to be a mother to their kids. They find a way. They figure it out. At the end of the day, you got to be a person, right? Like, at the day, you have, like, a basic set of morality that you should live by.

I don't think it's that hard to just be, like, a decent human being, whether you have... My father had a horrible father. But you got to know what right or wrong is. And sometimes you can learn just as much from right as wrong. Absolutely. So sometimes if you at least have a horrible example, you know what not to do. Absolutely. If you have a great example, you know what to do.

But if you have no example whatsoever, you're kind of like, what do I do? Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Right, you have kids? No, not yet. He's still wearing condoms. No, I don't do that.

You don't, you both. Yeah, T.O. Yeah, T.O. Come on, bro. Come on, bro. Come on, bro. Come on, bro. Don't leave me hanging, bro. Come on. You know what else?

They shouldn't leave hanging. Then passes, I'm about to intercept if I guard you. That's a fact. You leave that shit hanging. That's getting snatched right out the air, dog. Look at this. You see that? You see that?

He can't even look at his direction. You know who else shouldn't look? The quarterback, because that shit getting intercepted. Don't look over here. Is it really a thing that's a thing. You know like the way of condoms? Really? You know, like, fuck that.

I don't want no interception. Really? Hey, you know, I need some doubt. You know, I need some dab, bro. We were trying to get some, we're trying to get some sponsors for the show. I have some peace.

We had a condom sponsor. She's like, no, we don't want it. Get the fuck out here. You don't believe in condoms, bro. You listen to this, dude. You're listening to this dude. Look who he's been. friend in this cornball over here.

Listen. They should be doing a podcast. We really should. Y'all do, you know, too. Y'all too do a podcast. Yeah. That's hilarious.

No, I'm going to tell you what's happening right now. He doesn't know what to do with his hand. Black people, we know how we missed the dab, like, you know, like, like, like, we didn't suck it, right. We didn't suck it. No, right. And he got to stay right there.

And he got to stay right there. Come on, dog. That's a straight. That's it, bro. Come on, dog. Thank you. There you go. There you go.

I got you. My man. When you're ready to have some waters open. Like this. Thank you so much. You talk about language, right? A big thing that happened over the weekend. Because you said you didn't like the way Antonio talked about to his baby mom.

Yeah. I mean, especially in front of his kids. Okay. So how did you feel about Snoop talking to gal came like that? Was it appropriate? No. Do I feel like she deserved it? Yes.

Okay. Considering how the interview went. Did you see the whole interview? Nobody's seen the entire interview. They saw like two, like they said, they said it was a five-minute interview and two minutes of it was about about Kobe. I saw the five-minute 33-second. And his transgressions. And the thing is, like, Kobe was never convicted of anything.

Kobe admitted to his wrongdoings. He apologized to her. He apologized to his wife. And that's where it should have lied. And that's where it should have ended. and he's moved on and he's been a better person from that. You haven't heard of Kobe doing the same thing. This wasn't an R. Kelly situation.

Gail knew better than that. She's a journalist. Like, you know going into an interview like that. You know what questions you have. Whether, you know, they were approved by the network producer or whatever the case may be, even if you have some type of more accomplice going to that and you, and Lisa, you're asking Lisa Ledger. Why are you asking Lisa Lesz?

That was close. They were best friends. They were like real close friends. They played ball together, the Sparks and Lakers. But what did she have to do with that interaction? She wasn't there. She wasn't doing anything. Some type of moral comfort.

She was like, okay, I'm not asking that. You know what I mean? My thing is, I'm looking at the interview. I'm thinking initially, okay, it's a reflective piece about, like you said, the relationship, them being Lakers the same time, you know, the bond, his career, things of that nature. She went into it like it was a 30 for 30 or something. some type of documentary piece and you're digging up dirt.

And then the fact that she can't, it almost seemed personal when she was like, well, well, Lisa, you wouldn't know that, would you? Yeah. That from that, that seems another dig, like dig low. Right. That seemed personal to me. So again, when you think about like something, like I said, she deserved a backlash that she's gotten.

And as Bill Bellamy said, number one, she's black. You would think going into a situation like that take care of us because they take care of them, why not take care of us in that situation? I think I can see where the anger, you know, came from. I think the anger was warranted. I don't know about the language. But that's who, and I'm going to come see you. But that's another bit, but she's 65 years old.

Right, right. And you're not going to come see her. But I'm not. She don't know that. Stop acting tough on fucking Instagram. You're 100. It's not him. It's what about some of the younger dudes that respect Snoop.

100%. heard what he just said. Oh, I'm going to try to impress you. You see what I'm saying? Right. So I'm not, right. So I don't, I just think that part of it. Because Matt Bond signed in.

Matt Bond shined. Matt really will come see. Yeah, he's right. Yeah. Yeah. He's got that same energy. Yeah. But again, like I said, I don't, like said, you don't want anything to escalate to that point to

where somebody is hurt. But that's where, that's where the love for Kobe is right now. Right now. And then just the, like I said, the time. the timing of it. The guy hasn't even been buried yet. Yeah. Just the timing of it. And then just for his wife, for the sake of his wife

and his kids. And then you start digging up stuff. Like I said, he wasn't even convicted. I will say to her two questions weren't bad questions. No, no, I'm not saying. But it was the way she responded. Yeah. It was the pushback. Yeah. It was the original. One was, you know, people say his legacy is complicated.

Because of X, Y, exactly. Exactly. And Lisa was like, it's not complicated for me at all. She answered it. Right. The next one was, should people even be talking about this, you know, should just even be a topic of conversation, which also Lisa knocked out the park with an answer. So those two conversations, those two questions

weren't bad questions. It was just a pushback, though. She kept saying, like I said, I think that's what people are upset about. That's what people are outraged about because of, in which the manner that she, again, the pushback. Lisa gave her every opportunity to button it up when she gave her answers.

And she kind of just left it at that. but then again there was some comeback to it. The case wasn't dismissed because the woman didn't show up. Like it was always some of another but. Right, but there's a reason. As I'm saying, this is not a documentary piece. Just go on to the next. What is what is, what was the nature of the interview about?

Yeah. Like this is like, they want their clicks. It wasn't the, they got their clicks. They're in the click business. And that's what Snoop is saying. If you're doing this for clicks, don't do this off of Kobe's name. Right, exactly. That's reasonable.

I think the, I definitely think the criticism is reasonable. I do think that there's like a, there's like a weird racial component kicked in where, like, you can't, it was like, you're somehow, I don't know, you're somehow like going against your own if you're asking a question about someone's past that is incriminating. And I don't think that's necessarily fair. I mean, because that's, because, but that's context too, Oprah and Gail. So people look at Oprah and Gail and they think Oprah only targets black men to bring them down. But you haven't did that with Harvey. Harvey Ystein, which is also the Jeffrey F. Gail. Gail, Gail, Gail, You work with Charlie Rose. She worked for Lesmore Spence. You don't think that they've tried to get Harvey Weinstein for an interview. I think everybody on the earth has tried. They got somebody.

They got her friend. And that's what I said. Why didn't you get Harvey Weinstein's friends and get on there and talk about Harvard? That's a great question. Well, no, Gayle did interview Harvey's lawyer. Oh, she did. She did interview Harvey's lawyer. And what she said?

I don't remember the interview, but she did interview Harvey's lawyer. I was like in November, October. It was like during the fall of last year. Yeah. But I think there's also, you know, people have seen Gail. Right, was there any, you know, feedback? Feedback. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Exchange like it was with Lisa. I would like to see that. Yeah, exactly. I don't think it would be the same. Yeah, and people, and it's a lawyer, too. Yeah, and this video of Gail, you know, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of, it's the body language. It's right. She didn't do that.

No type of defendant for COVID. That's what I'm saying. She could see the benefit of doubt with those situations. Right. You can't see the benefit of doubt with Kobe. Yeah, yeah. And the fact that, again, like, the thing is. is Kobe hasn't, there was no repeat of his mistakes.

Right. He made it. And he admitted to his wrongdoing. Like his marriage was on the brinks. He apologized to his wife. And since then, he's made good on that. Whatever their talks were to move forward and be a best, to be a best husband and a father, he had done that.

So maybe the criticism is reasonable. I mean, I tend to defend my Nubian queens, but, you know. Well, listen, I'm the first person to tell people you can't. tell somebody how to react, but I can tell somebody if they went too far. You know what I'm saying? Like right now, if Tio was to get up and slap Andrew, I'd be like, oh, Tio, cool out. There's no need.

Like, I get it. You think he's going to be... But you went too far. Yeah, you know what I understand? Why? You went too far. You think there's four, six, one of the ads are going to be able to catch me. I'm on the edge of my seat. So we're going to be on the edge. I'm on the edge. I'm on the edge.

I'm on the edge. If you're sitting deep, I'm gone. You're going to be right on the edge. Hey, you better to be thankful for your new podcast. partner right here and separating us. Listen, that's what you... My dad, is you breaking up another team, bro. Oh, yeah.

Come on, bro. He's going to kick me to the curb over here. You know what I mean? He kicking me to the curb over here. How often does your podcast come up? About a month ago, we just... I'll say how often. Once we go.

Every Tuesday. Every Tuesday, the podcast comes out. Can we get you on there? I'd love to pull up. Yeah, for sure. Come on. If you have in LA, man, for real. We love it.

On Thursdays, the YouTube portion of it comes out. So the video portion of it comes out. So we do it every Tuesday. You can show up on Sunday. We'll do you on Sunday. Perfect. Ain't nobody going to be there. Nobody's going to do it. With T.O. and Matthew

Hatchet. Get your popcorn already. Hashtack G.R. Yeah, yeah. I want to thank y'all for coming, man. Man, my mom, I appreciate you pronouncing my name right. I'm being honest with you. If you hadn't said it this morning, I'd have been saying Terrell right now. I know. Tarr like Cheryl. That will be stuck in my head. I never thought about it. It's T.

T.O. Like, you know what I'm saying. But that's usually the default, you know, when people can't pronounce or they have some questions about what to call me. They just say T.O. All right, hold on. Let's take a break. We've got to pay some bills, all right? Let's talk about Boost Mobile. All right?

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Oh, absolutely. Because as I alluded to earlier, the things that were going on, like I said, it's just like that interview. They kind of were the social media era in a way. But it's just like the, we were just talking about the interview with Gail and Lisa. if you don't see the entirety of the interview, then all you have to go by is the clip. That edit of that whole clip.

And that's what happened when I try to explain or dispute my side of the story. This is interesting. I've done, like I said, hour and a half sit downs of whatever the situation was. But you... You only get that their edit version. Right, but the world doesn't see the entire hour and a half.

They only see like five, ten minutes of what they show in clips from that, that interview. So they did me a disservice. So again, like, yeah, to be in an era now where you have the, to have the social media platforms and have a voice where, again, back then, we were voiceless almost. We were at the, we were at the mercy of what was being. Yeah.

So again, you couldn't control your own narrative back then. And then, like I said, you talk about the skip basis. Bro, they, they liars. Like, bro, like I said, could I have handled some things differently? Absolutely. But I wasn't, and I didn't do the things that they said I did. To be a disruption in a locker room and say that I was that on every team, you would have to really go in that locker room and talk to all 53 guys.

And if there's a large percentage of guys in every locker room, then, okay, I agree with you. I was a distraction. But you can't talk to a coach here behind closed door, getting a little sound bite for your story or a player here that may not have light me or what have you and then say they speak for the locker room. that's what they did for the majority of my career. So, yeah, what I, like I said, I would have flourished, thrived in an era like this, especially with all these social media platforms. What would you have done on social media that year you got suspended from the Eagles?

I would have tried to really explain my side of the story. So again, like I said, Donovan got mad because of a clip that I had done with Graham Ben Singer. I met this dude. He was in high school when I was with the San Francisco Four. 49ers. Met him coming out of the locker room after a game. He was in high school. He said, I'm going to be a journalist one day.

Like, will you give me an interview? Didn't think. I was like, yeah, didn't think too much of it. Fast forward to 04 or whatever was, 0405. He goes to Syracuse or whatever. Now he's working for ESPN. He reaches out. He's like, yo, T, remember you told me in high school I could do an interview?

I did the interview. I granted the guy to interview. They asked me a few questions here and there. One of this question was, you know, our record was like seven, four and three at the time. And so I don't know why he asked the question, but he's like, and we got to talk about Brett Farb and some other quarterback. So he's like, yo, he's like, you know,

what do you think about Brett Farb? I was like, yo, he's a great quarterback. He's like, man, if you had Brett Farve as a quarterback, do you think you guys would be a better team or something right now? So I said, yeah, I would agree with that assessment. You know what I mean, just giving respect, not discounting McNabb, but I was giving kudos to in respect to Brett Farber and what he's done.

So that sound bite created a firestorm the next day. Oh, Terrell says something about Donovan, Bigdav, throws him on the bus, this and that's how, that's where things kind of went downhill. And they didn't see the entirety of the interview because I said it easily, because Donovan had been injured that year. I said easily, if Donovan wasn't hurt, we would easily be sitting here six and one because we got beat by Pittsburgh, like bad that year. So we were four and three. I said we could easily be six and one right now if Donovan wasn't hurt. But they never, nobody ever read or never, heard of none of the good stuff that I was saying.

They just went off the edit, the little bit of the transcript, and that's where things went downhill. Because if it bleeds, it leads. So I got to go into negative. Right. But they suspended you for a whole year for that? Yeah, after seven games, yeah, I had played like seven games, and then things kind of just started.

Yeah, that kind of just, it just kind of unraveled. And then Dunham and, like I said, we had just come off the Super Bowl year. I went in a training camp. That was the year that I did, the sit-ups. You know, Andy, me and Andy had a disagreement at practice. He sent me home. And so the reason I did the whole sit-up thing, because he's like, yo.

That's when you're using your driveway working out. Yeah. So he was like, go home. And he's like, we'll see you when we get back to, get back to Philly. Yeah, make sure you keep yourself in shape or whatever. So I didn't, I got back to Moorstown from Lehigh, this hour and half, two hours, I think. I'm in my house. I wasn't thinking nothing of it, didn't know what to do.

Next thing I know, I hear helicopters going around the house. Then I look out the blinds. I got media trucks. in the yard, and then they started knocking at the door. They went to, so I looked at it, left, they kept knocking. So I just tried to appease the media, tried to have fun to make light of the situation. So again, I remember, Andy said, oh, make sure you work out. So that's why I brought the bench out just to say, okay, Andy, I'm working out.

So you were doing it to be funny. Yeah, I just tried to make light of the situation. So I didn't think too much of it. And then, like said, the rest is history. Is that really the only reason they suspended you, just because you said something about Donovan McNap? Yeah, because Donovan, like said, at that point, it got so bad

and Duned have been wanted me like I made a public apology got through my through my publices wrote something out

read it so the thing was she had sent it via facts sent it to the to the training room

not to train to the equipment room so they got it so they somebody whoever got the facts

they saw what was on there so I went to the team captains one of the guys were Jeremiah Trotta I was like yo I said

got to go do a press conference this is what I got to read, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I gave it, I showed it to, showed it to Trotter. He read it. And it's basically saying, I apologize to the organization. It has some personal thing, you know, pointing out, singling out Donovan, this and that, so Trotter was like, don't do this, don't do that.

So that's what I did. Team captain, he read it. I'm like, all right, cool. So I'm like, okay, I can see why he say take that out because I apologize to the team in the organization. He's part of the team. Why single him out individually? So that's what I did. And so then it got back to the coach or whatever after I had done the press conference

and up top that I didn't read out the entirety of what was sent over. So then talk to Andy Reed. He wanted me now to make another apology in front of the team to Donovan. I'm like, no. That's why they suspended you. So why do I got to specifically point him out? I was like, I apologize to everybody.

But you pointed them out initially in the interview even though the question was asked to you but you still singled them out. The media singled them out. I'd say it wasn't a direct

not just apologize. No, because I already did that. If I apologize, I didn't, I include it. I think you're right, Matthew. At the time. Just apologize.

Who gives the fuck? But at that time, I didn't see a need, what am I apologizing for? Doesn't matter. Because of his feelings. Yes, because of his feelings. That's why we apologize.

So what about? my feelings. Who cares? It doesn't matter. Okay. It doesn't matter. He didn't need me the year before. You don't care about his feelings? No. I care about winning Super Bowls. Okay. Just apologize to the quarterback. The quarterback's a baby. You're not a baby.

You know that the baby needs to be nurtured. So nurture a baby. Give him a titty. Let him get some milk. If it was a white quarterback, I wouldn't have apologized. Being it was a black quarterback. But you, I wouldn't apologize. But I get that. But at this point time, things had gotten so bad. Like I said,

he had already showed his true colors toward me. And even guys, even people in the organization that worked at, they even pointed out things that I was obligious to.

So at this point, I'm like, nah. So it wasn't just that isolated incident to where I'm like, oh, I felt like I couldn't,

I couldn't apologize to him. Maybe on different circumstances that had there been like a one-off, then yeah, I would have been mad enough to do it. But it was things

that led up to the point of like, not. After you challenged him to a fight? Yeah, this was after that. Oh, okay,

okay. So this was, relationship. Right. So at this point, it was after that. And so he was trying to throw his weight around at this point, time, asking Andy, I need a public apology in front of the team. No, I'm not doing that. And then when I didn't do it, Andy, they was going to Washington that following week. He goes, okay, I'm going to sit you out. We'll address it. This and the other. But I all, I, I 100% guarantee Donovan went there. I was like, no, I don't want to play with him. It's either me or him. You think it was jealousy? You think both of y'all had an ego? He was used to be in the guy. There was no ego with me, bro. Like he said earlier, he alluded to, like, I couldn't have done the things that I did on the football field without the quarterback. And no matter what the situation was, I didn't take it onto the field. No matter what. When we in between the lines, that's my guy. But he didn't seem to be that way.

And everybody's not on your team. Everybody's not going to be that way. So again, like I said, I never, bro, I never had any hate toward Donovan. No envy, no nothing. Based on, again, like I said, I'm sure a lot of things. You got to get Donovan on the show. A lot of things. Right, but I guarantee you a lot of things that factored to him being in Philly and way the way they didn't embrace him.

When he came out and they needed it, there was a pick between him and Ricky Williams. They wanted Ricky Riddle him. They ended up getting him and they booed him just and the other. And the way when I came over from San Francisco, they lit up the city. They embraced me. I scored a touchdown. You got the whole stadium chanting my name. That couldn't have set well with him.

But that's not my fault. That's crazy. That's not my problem. And these are things that were brought to my attention. It's his house. Right. But these are things that were brought to my attention that they felt that rubbed him the wrong way. Very weird relationship for a quarterback and Y receiver to have, though, because he's throwing you the touchdown.

Bro, trust me. It's a team game. When I came over there, I already knew what the stigma was for me coming over there. He's disruptive. He's going to be causing problems. It's nothing the other. I didn't come over there with no ego. I even say to my press conference, I said, look, I'm not coming.

here to steal anybody's thunder, anybody's limelight. They brought me over there because of what I've done. They didn't get, they had four chances to get beyond the NFC championship. You sure this wasn't about women? Y'all wasn't fighting over the five or six-tens in the show. Again, women, no.

She was playing, Taylor. It was nothing like that, dude. Trust me, when I saw him met him in the Pro Bowl, the year before, when I was with the Niners. threat then, of course. It's all good. Then you're not a threat. And then when I got over there, it was a different story. Bro, if Donovan was sitting here right now, I would say the exact

same thing that I'm saying right now, bro. Is that true, Donovan? Yeah. Same thing right now, bro. That's on, bro. Maybe y'all need a conversation, you know what I said, no need to go to the grave with stuff like this. When you look at, like, what happened with Kobe, God bless the dead, and you see how, you know, Kendrick Perkins reached out to Kevin Durand. Like, all of this stuff is just like how Shaq goes back and about all the time he waits. Shax crying like, oh, we didn't get a chance

to do this and that. You don't feel it today, but if something were in. But you're still upset, dude. You've been talking about it for like 30 minutes. No, you guys are talking about it. So I'm just giving you. I'm just giving you.

We talked about it already. You brought it back. I think you got a real bonus. No, he's. I don't bail out. I don't bail out. We were wrapping up and he was like, one more thing about Donovan.

Yeah, yeah. You brought who? I think that there's something in here where you guys can't. Hey, man, kill yourself. That's what we do here. That's what we do here. That's what we're saying.

A great podcast episode would you be, you guys talking? I mean that 100%. No, real content. Unreal. Wants to buy cables. Wow. They paid me then, yeah. But other than that, no, I don't see a need to, bro.

Content, baby. No, I don't need no content, bro. He's trying to stay. He's trying to say relevant. I'm not. Let it. He the one did this show with Master Chaz or Master P. Whatever it is.

He did this untold stories. Bro, I don't need to do that. Bro, I thought we had disgusted. I've seen them out. I thought it was cool. And stuff like that just helps the people who already try to paint a narrative of you being a negative teammate. That helps them out when he's tough. Get them on there.

Call them out of his bullshit and then clear your name. They're going to be on there crying. I guarantee. They're going to be crying and hugged each other. I guarantee it. It's going to be brotherhood, man. I don't need to. I don't need to.

I don't need to. I don't need to. Like I said, he had ample opportunities to be, to speak politically correct when he needed to. But when it came to me, that wasn't the case. Even like I said, when my contract came up, Westbrook, he spoke vouched for Westbrook to get his money. But when he came to my money, it was not. He didn't speak that way. You know what I mean?

So, you know, it's just me and you. It's me and you. They can go do their own podcast, y'all. Does Jerry Jones? We can do our podcast. Does Jerry Jones share his women? Does he what? Did he share his women?

Oh, I'm sure. I'm probably sure he does. I don't know. You never passed him to the team? Like, Jerry Jones? Yeah, you never seen the pictures of Jerry Jones? Women? What?

You're right. He's Haiti. It doesn't matter. Let me show you the pictures. You don't remember this? Right, but if he had with somebody black owner doing what he doing, that'd be crucified. Yeah, you're right.

And he's married. Be crucified. He's married. You don't remember these? Him all in pictures, man? Crucified. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Crucified.

Oh, Jerry. I never seen these. I know, because y'all hang out together. Y'all don't never see. Y'all wouldn't see nothing. Y'all won't see nothing. You know, boss? Let's go.

Jerry don't share those with the team? Maybe, maybe, Michael Urban. I wasn't really, I wasn't like in the 90s. I wasn't one of his guys. I wasn't part of the triple threat. Oh, y'all never had a relationship? You didn't say the night at Jerry's house? Like, no.

Really? No, no. It was strictly business. Man, I mean, I thought it was. I mean, if it was strictly business, I mean, he wouldn't have listened to Romo and Witten and Garrett to get me up out of there. Hold on. So Romo, Witten, and Garrett are the reasons that you... Oh, that's part of that.

After you cried? Damn. Trust me. But, hey, it is what it is, bro. But like I said, I'm a bad guy, though. I don't know. I got to hear the whole story. But I'm a bad guy, though.

I got to hit a whole story. I let somebody else. It needs to have some other guys in here to tell the story. So Roma, because if you tell it, I'm going to, I can't tell it. I can't tell it.

It's not going to be, it's not going to be believing. Well, why let someone else tell it? That's the question. It's going to come from a selfish point of view of these tells. It's going to come from another. So what do you think? We want to hear your PO because they can respond later.

Why do you think Roma, Whitney and Garrett went to get you out of Dallas? So after my third year, I had just got an extension. Jerry called me. I remember exactly where I was. High Rise and, on McKinney Street,

McKinnon. And so he called me now, this was right before they opened up in the Jerry's world. Yeah. So he kind of asked me, like, you know, what do we need to get over the hump?

By this time, like I said, this is, I think, Garrett's first or second year coaching. And so he asked me, my honest assessment of what we need to do to get to that next level, try to get to the Super Bowl.

I gave him that, and he was all right, cool. Like, I'm looking forward to, you know, opening it up the big stadium the next year. What was your assessment, though? That we need to kind of get more people involved. You know, I think there are things during the course of that

that final year that I brought to the attention of some other guys and they noticed it too where, you know, Romo was favoring, you know, targeting, winning more so than other guys when other guys were open. And that's the thing. Like you? No, no, but I wasn't.

But that's what I'm about. But before he said that, I was about alluded to, It wasn't even about me getting the ball. He said a number two receiver. It was other guys during courses of the game that were open, but he would throw in the double team coverage. We would point these things out in practice behind closed doors and things that we had in discussion

between myself and Garrett and other guys receivers that we thought would never get out. And then somehow the next day, the media knows what we're talking about. So there are things that I kind of made people aware of. And then I think after that, Jerry took your assessment back to the team. And they was like, no, he's the problem. Let's get him out of here.

So, again, those are, like I said, those guys were part of the reason why I didn't extend. Because I had just signed an extension. So if I was a problem, why did it get me an extension? And to my, what I talked about earlier on the show, when I got released, the NFL, they had to file a paper of why I was released. It didn't have anything to do with conduct detrimental and. Any other things that the boxes that were that were supposed to be checked, they checked performance-based. What was the performance thing?

I have no idea. You said it on the breakfast club. You don't want to say it here because that's a straight alley-up. But my performance, like I said, I was one of the top, like I was the top receiver. What was it? Tell them what it was. Tell them what it was. Like, I performed like I was one of the top receivers in the league.

No, no, no. What was it, Matt? Performing. You get him the ball? Was it? No, you're too slow. It's because you are too slow. Yeah, yeah, because he was too slow.

You were turning down. Gallup, Gallup. You lost a step. You sound like Trump. You were trying to come out of your mouth. You were trying, bro. Just BS. Is it?

Yeah, just BS. Let me tell you something. We didn't need a wall to stop you. Okay, you were stopping you. Just be in a wall. But to my point, like you said, those are some of the things, like I said, you know, that, that happened. So again, like I said, if it was.

All happened after that one conversation. Yeah. So maybe this was after the season. So this was after the season. So I had to be like, December, like January. Right. So there was an owner's meeting. I lived in Miami at the time.

My agent lived in Miami. There was an owner's meeting up in Fort Lauderdale. He called my agent and said, oh, we're going to be in Fort Lauderdale. Let's have a meeting, blah, blah, blah. So my agent called me up. I'm like, oh, we're going to be meeting Jerry and Stephen at this hotel, blah, blah, blah. And it was, we thought more or less about moving in the direction for the next season. We got into the meeting.

We sat down at the table. Jerry was here. I think Stephen was there. I was here and I think Drew and I think my other agent was sitting there. And so he started talking about the organization, you know, kind of just isolating, you know, things within the organization. And then he would put me over here in a category. So after he did all of that, he started writing on the table like Cowboys, T.O. Romo, T. Like, team, T.

organization, everything associated with Cowboys on one side. And you was on the other side. So then he took out a pen that had the pen and then he drew a line in between us. That's Jerry Jones? Yeah, he drew a line in between all that. He said, we're going to have to part ways. That's how I was cut. Okay, so that conversation, right, when it sounds like when you were talking,

he was taking what you were saying as you were putting yourself on that side. No, no, but I never said that I was wanting the ball. When he asked me about the assessment of what we needed to do as an offense, as a team to move forward, I was giving him my honest assessment, but it wasn't about me getting one honest. But that wasn't my, right. But I thought as me being one of the top players on the team, him being the owner, he was coming to me to get some feedback on what we needed to do as a team in an organization. You know a black wide receiver will not have no weight when it comes to a white quarterback,

A white franchise tight-in and a head coach. But if he's calling me and asking me, like I said, I know how he's... He's not calling you for honest answers. Right. But I understand what he had done in the relationship that he had with, like, Charles Haley, the Emmysmiths, the Troy Eggman's. So I felt like, okay, I'm now one of those guys that he can lean on to get an honest assessment of what needed to be done to get to the Super Bowl. That's what they brought me to help to do. So that was really the nature of the conversation, and that's what I took from it.

I wasn't thinking anything outside of that. What did Drew say in that moment? Drew Rosenhouse. You're still friends? No. Not at all? No. You don't fuck with Drew?

No. Really? No. He stood by you in a lot of hard times. I mean, when you're getting paid, yeah, I'm pretty sure if I'm paying you, you're stick by me too. Mm-hmm. So you thought he was a friend? No.

You never thought he was a friend? At one point. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, then. And never had anything bad to say about me, nothing while we were together. As soon as we parted ways, then he starts saying this and that and the other. Oh, I was selfish. I was arrogant.

Where was all of this from the beginning? You were paying them. Money, money, money, money. Do you encourage people to sign with Drew Rosenhouse? Like, if players ask you? Money, money, money. I said no comment. I fucked it up, bro.

I had an amazing grace, dog. Wait, wait a minute. I was just saying no comment. So if a person came to you and said, you all want to sign the Drew Rosenhouse. I would say, so, no comment. Why, no comment? I just can't say anything about it. Really?

Yeah, I just wouldn't say anything about it. I mean, that's interesting. Only because during the NFL, he did stick by you, I guess. Like, yeah, if I'm paying, if I'm paying you, then yeah. Yeah. Then if we never had any issues while we were together, then why when we part ways, then you want to have negative things to say about me. What made y'all part ways?

There's a number of reasons. Give us a few. Here we go. We got some things that happened with my financial advice. There were some things that happened with my financial advice. or things that nature. I can't really go into details or what have you.

He robbed you? But at the end of the day, like I said, when you, for me to have an agent and suppose any, any agent, for that matter,

they're going to approach guys coming out of college and I'm sure Hatch can attest to this too. They're trying to get your services. They're going to tell you, they're going to tell your parents, anybody that you surround,

that those guys have surrounded themselves with, we're going to take care of him, we're going to have his best interest at heart. And so for me, you tell me that, you're telling my mom, or you look at my family, I take that in totality.

So then you go and things happen or right, then outside of when, it's like out of sight, out of mind. Then for me, when you're addressing and you're doing stuff for me, then you essentially, you're helping my family at the same time. I think you have an allegiance

and alliance or something toward my family at the same time. It's just not me that you're taking care of. So I, take my family into account when I make a number of decisions. So when he doesn't take that into consideration, then you just got to move on. How much did he steal from you? I didn't say, I'm not going to say he. I'm not going to say, I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say anything. I can't really say, I can't really speak on it. But again,

like said, if I, if any guys were to ask me about anything about Drew Rosenhaus, I'd just be like, do your due diligence. Wow. That was just, that's what that was. But isn't he on record saying that he made you so much money that he deserved. He deserved what he took. I made myself that money. Right. I worked for it. He negotiated, but he ain't made me nothing. Fair enough. He negotiated. Right. Right. I mean, if he stole from you, that's good information to put out there because then other people can stop being with it. At the end of the day, like I said, I would tell guys to do their due diligence. Right. as far as whom they're, you know, retain it, who they're retaining as, as, as, uh, their representation.

Yeah, because I think he's the reason that, uh, AB really can't get another gig. Only because he parted ways, well, he's no longer, and told him he need to get some help. You know what I'm saying? Well, I mean, and he put that, yeah. He put that out there and Tim is out there. Yeah, but that's cool. But, of course, again, everything was going well when AB was paying him that money.

Like I said, he can't control the actions of AB. So that may have, you know, triggered or prompted him to do what he did as far as parting wave. But that's not on him. That's kind of like on AB too. You had a $6.5 million lawsuit against Drew Rosenhouse. He wouldn't do your homework. I like it. Five years.

The five years in court for five years with him. You accused him of giving you bad financial advice that cost you millions. How much money he cost you? He sued for fraud, breach of fiduciary duty and negligence. Wow. He introduced you to a financial advisor named Jeff Rubin. Recommended you hire him to manage your money. Whoa.

Rubin was later banned from the securities industry after putting several NFL players money into a high-risk investment that lost over $40 million. Whoa. So it's a good chance that Ruben was kicking money. To Drew 100%. On the back end. So I'm not going to say anything bad. So to your point, you asked me if somebody would ask me about it. I said, do your due diligence?

Was that Madoff? Yes. Did you get fucked over in Madoff thing? In the Madoff thing? No. The Bernie Madoff thing? Was it a Ponzi scheme, the money that they were putting? I don't know anything about no made-off.

I don't know if he was associated with that. Or if you're asking if that's something similar. I'm asking if that's where you're... I would not be surprised if that's where they're putting your money. Interesting. Why'd you drop it, though? After five years battling him in court, why did you decide to drop the case? I just had to just, you know, it's not even worth the headache.

You know, it's taking time out of my schedule. Talk to lawyers, go do here. this and it just wasn't worth it. Like I said, I mean, fuck me. That guy's a scumback. That guy's a scumbag. Like I said, I know I'm not a bad person. Like I said, I know what the stigma.

I know what the perception is. Did you make you sign something that you can't speak? Yeah, I can't speak on it. Yeah, because you probably heard his business. I can't speak on it. Yeah. So like I said, that's why, like I said, I'm careful at what I say. Like I said, I knew what you were getting at.

But like I said, I would tell you, do your due diligence. Hatchez even asked me, He's asked me about certain players or whatever, what I thought about, you know, Drew Rosenhouse or whatever, this is that and the other. Like I tell you, do due diligence? Are there other players with similar stories? Oh, of course. I'm sure. Under Drew? I would probably, I'm not sure.

Yeah. But I'm, what I know with Jeff Rubin, that situation, yeah, absolutely. Most of Jeff Rubin's clients were Drew Rosenhouse clients. Do you have anger towards any? of them? Like if you saw Drew in the street right now or Jeff Rubin in the street right now? No, like I said, I just like I said, I kill him with blindness. I just let it. And then... How do you kill him with blindness? Keep your

shades on it? I just, I just, I don't know him. Oh, got you, got you, got you, got you. Got you, got you, got you. Right, yeah. You know what I just act like I don't see him, bro. Like, I said, bro, I know who I am. I'm not a bad person. Yeah. Like I said, at the end of the day, like I said, if I was that type of person that I've been portrayed to be over these years, it would have translated, transferred to to it off the field.

It is my hope for Terrell Owens that you don't go to the grave with that narrative. At some point in time, you get to really tell your story. The real story of T.O. No, no, I'm working on some stuff. Like I said, I got a meeting next week in L.A. About a bigger documentary. I know I've done some stuff with a, we did a mini-dociseries with the Player Tribune. And so with that, you know, successful, the content.

and then even with some of the things that have happened since then transpired, like me not making the top 100, you know, all-time team, things of that nature, this Dunham and stuff, or what have you. Have they done it for 30 on you yet? No, I'm not going to give them free content. I know what your doc should be called. But it's never my fault. Yeah.

But you assume that I feel like that it's not my fault. Like I've taken some account a bit. Like I said, could I have done some things wrong? Yeah, I've said. that. What in the NFL did you do wrong? What did, what? Because I celebrated because I was outspoken. Is that wrong? Sounds like you're defending yourself when

we ask you what you did wrong. Right, but is that wrong? Well, just tell us what you did wrong. Yeah, what do you think? Looking back in hindsight. Just say nothing if you say it. I just, okay, maybe I could have addressed the media a different way if I knew how to play the game to kind of I guess stay ahead or

stay in good graces with the media, but that's not what I was about. But did you do anything wrong? No, I didn't. What did I do wrong? If you're asking me what did I do wrong? There's obviously something that you assume that I can't tell you. What did I do wrong about you? You're a wife receiver. You played in the league. Too honest.

It's just too honest. Is it? But is that? But is that wrong? Some people it's not. People don't want to hear the truth a lot of the time. So in your assessment, in your opinion, is that wrong? No. It's not wrong if that's what the truth is.

Let me ask you one question. Give me one thing that you thought Tio did wrong in his career. Just give me one. one of the 20,000 that you did. I'm not making the argument that he did anything wrong. Not one thing at all. There's not one thing. I'm not making the argument that he did.

I know. I'm asking a total separate question. I just want to know what's one thing that you thought that when you heard of last one. Wrong and different are the one thing that I would have done differently if I was him. I'm not saying that he did anything wrong because I'm not in this, there in the situation to know what it is. So I can't claim what is right and wrong for you. One thing I would have done differently, I would have just apologized to Donovan if he was being a fucking baby. Yeah.

Just apologize. It's like a baby. It's like, you know how powerful an apology is? Like, you basically strip the person who needs it from all their power. You don't apologize for them. You really apologize for you. Yeah, it's like, all right, just throw me the ball. I'm sorry.

You're done, you're done crying? I wouldn't think that somebody of that caliber would need an apology. But now you know, I didn't think at that time. He just asked me. Men have fragile egos. Huh? Men have fragile egos. Yeah.

I totally get it. I think everybody has an ego at some point. You know what I mean? And like said, I'm sure, yeah. Did it surface during the course of my career? Yeah. But at the end of the day, you asked me, did I have I, no, I have not done anything wrong because everything that I've been criticized for and vilified for, they're now embracing.

Being outspoken, they're embracing that. I wouldn't work out in front of me now. I'm not talking to you right now. I know you're not. I'm talking to scoring touchdown and celebrating. I was criticized for that. Guess what they're doing. They're embracing that now.

Right. So, yeah, so yeah, I didn't, I haven't done anything wrong. But in the eyes of many at that time, yeah. They didn't know how to view what I was doing. A lot of what you were doing was marketing, though. Like the whole two popcorn thing. I mean, it's got a whole podcast years later named after. You know what I'm saying?

But I was trying to, like I said, being creative. That was motivation for me to get into the end zone. I knew that I couldn't do all those things if I didn't score. And then, like I said, it became a topic around the league where guys were, you know, mad at me for celebrating or scoring or dancing. To wear some guys on the same team, I was like, bro, if you don't like it, then stop him from getting in the end zone. So is that wrong? No.

But to a lot of people, based on how the narrative was created, yeah, I'm a bad person, I'm a disruptive guy. I did this, I did that. So yeah.

I hated you when you stood on the star in Cowboys. It's not that I'm never, never wrong. Yeah, but I was a cowboy fan. Absolutely. But like my father said,

if you don't like him standing in the star, stop them. Yeah. Don't let him get in the answer. You know what I mean? Yeah. All right. Well, thank you.

Terrell Owens. Matthew Hatchett. Get your popcorn ready. Get your popcorn ready. Podcast. Available wherever you can get podcast. Thank y'all for coming, man. Really appreciate you. Absolutely.

And it's The Brilliant Idiot's Podcast. As always, if you think we're smart, you think we're intelligent, you think we're brilliant. You're absolutely right. If you think we're just a couple idiots who don't know shit, you're right too. Thank you for listening.

Thanks, Andy. That was your cue. That was your cue. For what? When they say, we think we're idiots and you don't know what you're talking about. Oh, no, I'm the idiot. And you don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, that was your cue. Oh, oh, then I say something. I got you. I got you. I messed up. See, he's an idiot. See how I did that? Brilliant, though. I messed up. You see how I did that? I messed up. It was good. It was good. It was a pleasure, bro. It's a pleasure.