The Bryce Crawford Podcast - Christian Dating ft. Jonathan Pokluda (EP 94)

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

In this episode, Bryce interviews Pastor Jonathan Pokluda on Dating as a Christian.

I have a huge announcement before you guys continue to watch this episode of the podcast. Guys, May 18th, we are doing our second live podcast show in my home state, Atlanta, Georgia. We're going to be at the Cobb Energy Center, May 18th for worship and a powerful word. Guys, I am so excited to be back in the same city that God took me from death to life. If you guys want to come out to the hometown live podcast show, May 18th, go to Ticketmaster and search up Bryce Crawford and get your tickets today. Guys, I'm looking forward to seeing you guys on May 18th. Go to Ticketmaster, search Bryce Crawford.

Get your tickets to the live podcast show May 18th. Love you guys. Now enjoy the episode. What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Bryce Crawford podcast. I'm Bryson today. I'm with an awesome guest, pastor, father. I would call you mentor mine, Jonathan Picluda.

How are you doing? Dude, pumped to be here, man. Thanks for having me over. Yeah, thanks for coming. and thanks for making the flight down. Dude, love it. Absolutely. Thanks for introducing me to Moses.

Yeah, he's the best. He likes licking your ears. Yeah, man, I just got attacked by a miniature golden doodle. He loves you. That's rare. He loves people, but he really loved you. Maybe like I have like syrup in my ears or something. He was going to town.

He likes that. Yeah, man. Well, I'm excited about today's episode. I mean, I've never done an episode. on the topic of dating and what it means to be a Christian and finding a significant other spouse, things like that. And so I'm super pumped to just pick your brand. I'm gonna try to ask as many questions

across the spectrum of dating as possible. Yeah. Whatever the general public would say about it, Christianity, what Christianity says about it, how to go about it. I think one of the first questions on my heart is, so many people always wonder what it means to be equally yoked. Yeah. What does it mean to be equally yoked in a relationship that's romantic?

Yeah, so 2 Corinthians 614 is where that comes from. It says, do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. And so sometimes people are like, do we have to be the same level of spiritual maturity? Do we have to both be Calvinist or do we have to both be reformed? Do we have to both be Armenian or do we have to both be Baptist or Methodist or Catholic? What is that? Is that what that means? and the context of the scripture is really that a believer would marry a believer, the context,

or even do business with the believer. I can tell you one time pre-ministry I had went into business with somebody who was not a Christian. They were a good person. They were a moral person, but they were not a Christian. And it was going well until it wasn't. And all of a sudden he stopped answering my phone calls and ran off with a bunch of of money and I never heard from him again and I thought about that scripture and then Bryce I would just say some of the most difficult situations I'm in pastorally so I'm a I'm a pastor

so much of what I do is pastoral care or you would say biblical counseling and some of the most difficult situations I'm in are someone in a marriage where they were a Christian but they married someone who wasn't a Christian and they they either didn't see that as important or they hope that they would change post-marriage. You do not want to marry potential, meaning you don't want to marry someone hoping that they become someone else. That's a recipe for disaster. You want to marry them understanding their flaws, understanding their fallen nature, understanding their wiring and their personality, and say, hey, they would be a great match for me. We complement each other well, and we're going to do ministry together for the rest of our

life. We're going to have children and raise those children to know God. We're going to disciple our community, disciple in our home. And so we would make great partners. So really, what a Christian marriage is, it's a strengthening of ministry. You're like looking for a ministry partner. And so if you marry a non-believer, so much of the ministry that you're doing is going to be to them. And it's a really hard life. And the scripture speaks specifically to this in 1st Peter 3, it says, you know, if your husband is not a believer to try to win him over with your good deeds in the way that you love him and care for him and serve him, that's a tough life, man. Yeah.

That's really challenging, that they would see grace through your acts of service toward them. That's really challenging. And so, you know, I would say that you should be someone who's radically pursuing Jesus and find someone who is radically pursuing Jesus. I did a podcast recently and they were like, yeah, but that doesn't give, you know, people who aren't radically pursuing Jesus a lot of hope. I'm like, Jesus is our hope. The good news is the difference of someone who's not radically pursuing Jesus and someone

who is is a decision. It's like right now you can be hearing this and saying, okay, you know what, I want to turn my life around. I want to start running hard after God. I believe there's a God. I believe 2,025 years ago. there was a carpenter born in Bethlehem, a town that you would have never heard of except he was born there. He lived in Nazareth, a city that you would have never known about except he lived there.

And every atheist you know acknowledges him by the date on their iPhones because this carpenter born in Bethlehem reset time. And you say, if that's true, if he died and he showed back up, then what else am I going to do with my life? But chase hard after him and know him and make him known. Yeah. So I guess when I think of like dating relationships, like in high school, I know people would date. people if they were physically attracted them. Is it wrong to be physically attracted to someone as a Christian trying to

pursue dating? I feel like if in the world we live in, right? If you were going to, if you see a girl or you see a guy across the room, right? I feel like my first thought is you're not going, oh snap, man, their heart's awesome. You can't really see their heart and you also don't

really know them personally, but also too, you get old and wrinkly and my tattoos are not going to look the same in 30 years and I'm going to look really old. Like ink blotches on your arms. Yeah, just like a Chipotle bag over here. But I like a Chipotle bag.

But I feel sometimes when I think about it, like with my girlfriend, I'm like, man, I love her heart. I love her character. But I also think she's so beautiful. Is it wrong for me to feel that way? No, of course not. And so God, you know, God's a creative God. One of the first things that he does or the first thing that he does is create.

The first thing that we see in the scriptures in the beginning. God created the heavens of the earth. So he's creative. He cares about aesthetics. We see that in nature. If you put a leaf under a microscope, you see these bricks of cells stacked on top of each other. If you look into space, I mean, one of the most beautiful things that I've seen are just the creations of God. The ocean, a beautiful river, a stream, a grassy field, a starry night.

I'm a big sunset guy. Like our most beautiful paintings are knockoffs of God's original. So he cares about aesthetics. Yeah. And he made us, he wired us in such a way that we would find different things attractive. We know that when, you know, Jacob saw Rachel that he's just like, whoa, like there's something amazing about this woman. Now here's what I want to say right here. that's descriptive, not prescriptive.

So that's the Bible describing something that's happened, not prescribing it in that, hey, you must be attracted to. Because Proverbs 3130 says, charm is deceitful and beauty is fleeting, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. And so you do not need to feel bad for being attractive, but you do need to understand two things.

One, it's highly overrated, because it's a depreciating asset. And like you said, gravity is going to take its toll. I ask stadiums full of people, hey, how many of you are attracted to an 85-year-old? And almost no one raises their hand. But by the grace of God at some point, hopefully your spouse is going to be 85 years old. And you think, oh, yeah, but I'm married to them. It's like, listen, you're still going to find the 23-year-old attractive.

Yeah. Okay. wrinkles, gravity, you know, all kinds of things happen in our bodies. As I age, I can just tell you, like, it's, I mean, I look at Monica and I's my honeymoon pictures, and I'm just like, wow, we were, we really had it going on. And it's like, you know, now I'm middle-aged man, my hair's turning gray, and I don't, I don't like the gym as much as I once did. And so that happens for everybody.

And we're so naive. We think, no, I'm always going to stay hot. I'm going to get Botox. Like, no, that's weird. That's going to be weird. At some point, we need to make aging a great thing again because the proverb says that we're to esteem it. But the other thing that I would say is it's, we weigh overvalue physical attraction.

And so if you're looking for a spouse, I would say, consider your hand because this is helpful to me. You want to make sure you're going the same direction. Okay. That's the second Corinthians 614 to not be unequally yoked. Okay. So we're going the same direction. We both loving God. We're chasing hard after God. Two, this finger, this is something that you can communicate pretty dramatically with in a gesture in our culture. And so you can think about that as communication. Do we communicate? Do we speak in common language? Do we understand each other? This finger, your ring finger, that's commitment. Are we? We, we? We're, we're, we're we? We're we committed? Are they in and out of relationships? Or are they dating a different girl on Tuesday than a

Wednesday? Or, you know, are they, do they understand what commitment is? This, your opposable thumb, you got to have your thumb to pick something up. Like without your thumb, these fingers aren't, aren't as helpful. So you have to have somebody that compliments you, that they're strong where you're weak, their week where you're strong, you guys together make a great team. That's your thumb. And then your pinky, that's physical attraction. That's pink. that's chemistry. I would say this is the one that we put in first place. I'd say it has a place.

It's just not first place. And in fact, if you've got to lose a finger, like if I said, hey, right now the only way you're going to live is if I get to take off a finger, that'd be weird.

But if I did say that, you're probably going to say, ah, go ahead and take the pinky. You know, that's the one that's the least important of the five. And what we've done is we've taken that one in fifth place and we've put it in first place.

And the reason we've done that is because I think pornography, It's rewired our brains in such a way that guys are trying to find the Mother Teresa missionary, you know, serves at her church, but looks like a porn star. And I don't think we really understand how far porn has carried us and set us up for failure. That guys are discontent. They're afraid to commit. They're fearful. They're not asking girls out. They're hiding behind screens.

and I think it's really created quite a pretty desperate dating landscape today. Dang. I didn't even thought about porn having that much damage on people, but then, you know, I remember when I was in the sixth grade, I got exploited to pornography on a beach. It was like through a meme. But that was my introduction to pornography and then battled an addiction to pornography. And then right when I became a Christian, it was weird,

because there's some things that have stopped cold turkey and some things that haven't. That was actually one of the things that stopped. cold turkey the moment I became a Christian but I didn't realize how much it jacked me up yeah up here because then I had to rewrite my definition of love my pastor told me one time because I think this is this happens a lot today we say love is the feeling yeah like the butterflies oh you give me butterflies and so because I give you but because you give me butterflies then I'm going to show up then I'm going to show up sorry if you give me butterflies then I'm going to choose to be committed to you Yeah. And then after I choose to be committed to you, then I'm going to show up for you.

Which is actually selfish, not selfless. It's like, I'll ask people, what do you love it? Before I do a wedding, sometimes I'll say, what do you love about them? And they'll say, I love the way he makes me feel. Well, that's about you. When biblical love is actually sacrificial love. John 21, Jesus says to Peter, do you love me, do you agape me? And Peter says back, I do file a owe you. I do love you like a brother. And Jesus says, yeah, but do you love me sacrificially? And he says, hey, I do love you like a brother. We're called in marriage to Ephesians 5, lay our lives down for our wives.

Everybody gets hung up on the submission. Yeah. Like wives submit to your husbands, which the Bible says multiple times, 1st Peter 3, Ephesians 5, Colossians 1. Or Colossians 3. So that wives are to submit to their husbands. But it says husbands sacrifice your life for your wife. as Christ did the church. I would argue a bigger deal, you know? Yeah. Like if if a man is like, hey, I'm, I'm going to put your desires first at every turn. And so, yeah, I think what you're

looking for is someone that you can love selflessly and be loved by them selflessly, not so much about what they make you feel. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think feeling, and I think you're communicating this too, I don't think feeling is a bad thing at all. Not at all. But when it's first, because when I look at the gospel, it's Jesus doesn't say, oh, well, you, you're, I don't think feeling, and I think, make me feel awesome. He's like choosing to love us because despite despite the choice, he knows that people are going to reject him even after he offers the greatest love sacrifice of all time. And then that choice, because he chooses to love us, he shows up for us in the highs and the lows because he walks through us through the valley of the shadow of death. We fear no evil. And he's

with us in the highs. And I feel like the moments that I show up for my girlfriend, I make the choice to love Maddie because I do. I show up for in the highs and lows. Even the low moments I show for it stirs my affections for Maddie. It like stirs that feeling. I guess something that I have a hard time understanding. I bet a lot of people are battling this right now about about dating relationships, the charm aspect. You know, you can fake charm, you can't fake character.

Yeah. But how do you discern charm versus someone that has character but has flaws? Yeah. Because I'm broken and every human being is broken and I find myself as a man in a relationship saying sorry a lot. Yeah. and making a lot of mistakes. How do you discern whether you're, oh, they're just faking it or they're just broken?

That's such a great question, brother. So I'm kind of a car guy. Like, I like cars, and I'm a gift guy. Like, that's my love language is gifts. And so one day my, this is before I was in ministry. My wife wanted, like, a suburban. And again, this is. when I was in corporate world.

And I was like, man, I wanna get her something really nice. And I found this Cadillac Escalade. It's black. Peanut Butter interior is beautiful. And I gave it to her in this really creative way. I put it on the side of the road with a wholesale sign. I knew she would see it and be like, oh, what about that? And I'm like, oh, we can't afford that.

And it's hers and all the things. And I had gotten a great price on it. And I got so caught up in the, the, good, good deal like this is such a good deal that I didn't go slow in the terms I didn't have my mechanic look at it or anything I just like man I found a great deal we can afford it she's gonna love it I'm gonna surprise her so I gave her that that escalate and I remember like the first time she was driving it like something started rattling in the dash and then like the dash fell off and then something broke in the engine and then we had to take it in and there was something wrong with the

rear in and all this stuff started going wrong with this car and and it was just like one thing the other. And so this deal all of the sudden was not a good deal. Like it was shiny. It was bright. It looked good. It was escalated. It had the Cadillac symbol on it. It looked sharp. But man, something was really messed up with that car. And what I didn't do, Bryce, is I didn't check Carfax. I didn't check the vehicle history report. I didn't realize that it had been wrecked three times. I didn't realize that it was involved in a flood. I didn't realize that it had seven owners. I didn't know all of these things that happened to this car, right? And so what I would say is when I was, I was, you know, in my day, they'd call it like a player,

I was like such a player. Before I knew Jesus, I found so much identity and what the opposite sex thought of me. And I memorized, this was my, so, it's embarrassing, but it was my game back in the day. It was like, I was like, but softwood light, the yonder window breaks. It is the east, and Juliet is the sun. arise for sun and killing the envious moon is already sick and pale with grief that thou her maid are far more fair than she be not her mason she is invihervest her livers but sick and green and number fools to wear it cast it off it is my lady oh it is my love and i could i could quote shakespeare and that was like that was the game i'd run man and you know how i knew that because i was in a play once upon a time where i learned it and so i'm acting and a guy who really likes you can act and a girl who really likes you can act, but what they cannot do is fake their reputation. So if you check the history report, if you're talking to exes, like if you really want to know if someone's good,

they're like, hey, you should talk to my ex-boyfriend. Like let him tell you about me. You should talk to my ex-girlfriend. Let her tell you. Like if you find that person, then they're like, okay, they're dating in such a way that they're leaving people better than they found them. that's a God honoring character trait. And so here, now I want to be careful because if Monica checked my history report, she's going to see a lot of carnage, a lot of baggage, a lot of brokenness.

Yeah. Like my history was full of brokenness. And so you want to make sure that their repentance is more notorious than their rebellion. That everyone's like, oh man, she's changed. Yeah, she used to be a prostitute. but man she's been following Jesus for a good two and a half years she's discipling girls she's sitting

with him and i use prostitute because it's a biblical word uh he used to be a a pimp or he used to be a drug dealer or he used to be a terrible human being a pornographer um a porn star right he used to be a porn star but he's been following jesus for two and a half years he's being disciples he's discipling guys and so it's like I've bought vehicles to use that metaphor before I bought vehicles with a salvage title I bought vehicles that were involved in big accidents or terrible wrecks or flooding or whatever it is but I only buy them after they've been on the road for a length of time and been running well and so when their repentance is as notorious as their rebellion yeah then I think you know they're datable whoa I like that I've never really thought about it that way um yeah I

Yeah, because I just think about that. How do you do, I guess something that I struggle with is because I know myself, you know yourself better than yourself. I don't know if we're just our biggest enemies and our biggest battle is our brain. Maybe I'm just too hard on myself. But how can I have a good, how can we as people have a good, healthy perspective of us acknowledging and being humble of like when we're wrong? Yeah.

But also not like giving ourselves a hard time. Because then there might be someone on the other side of this listening that's like, dang, I'm the guy with the salvage title, the baggage, and then the self-worth, self-reflection on themselves. Not about how they view the other person. Their self-reflection is, well, I'm not good enough for this. I don't deserve it. How do we have a healthy perspective of ourselves in the midst of our brokenness? Yeah, I think a bigger problem is that people are sitting in their brokenness, meaning I'm not healed from pornography. I'm continuing like a dog just vomit to give in to pornography. And I would say, man, you've got to get well. You've got to find freedom. Now, if you're in this place where you're just struggling to forgive yourself, I would say stop because God has forgiven you. He says in 2 Corinthians 519, he's no longer counting your sins against you.

in Romans 8 1 it says therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. And Malachi says that ye delights to show you mercy. Like what God does for fun is he shows people mercy. It's what God does for fun. It's like what he enjoys doing. And so it seems that God loves, loves, loves to write a story of redemption on people who've made really bad decisions. Genesis 50-20, what the enemies meant for evil God uses for our good.

Romans 828, we know that in all things God is working together for the good of those who love him who've been called according to his purpose. And so God flips the script. He takes the bad and he uses it for good when we bring it to him. We're like, hey, we need help. Like, can you take this?

He'll use your story. He'll take your mess and make it your message and even your ministry if you'll let him. So don't sit in shame because that's, that's that's Satan like Satan will use shame like you know we we talked about this but I've studied been studying in spiritual warfare for the past three years and one of the biggest tools that the enemy uses is shame to keep us in that and so man I would say to guys if you desire marriage listen guys like lean in on this if you're if you're a man right now listening you're of age to be married and you desire marriage

then I would say, ask out the godliest woman you know, and shoot your shot and give it a chance. And ladies, if a God-fearing man asks you out, give him a chance. Because I can't tell you how many marriages I've done, how many weddings I've done, where the wife is telling me, I was not at all attracted to him at first,

but I got to know him and now he's the greatest thing, you know. And I hear that all the time. So if a God-fearing man asks you out, give him a chance and men ask out the godliest woman that you know, even if she doesn't, she's not your epitome of attraction, she's not what you thought. Like, give heart a chance. Because, you know, first Samuel 16, God says, hey, I do not look at the outward appearance. I look at the heart. Ladies ask me, I do a Friday Q&A every Friday. I get answered questions on this.

And ladies are like, hey, this super God-fearing man asks me. me out. He's, he's so great. He's an incredible leader. Everybody loves him and respects him, but I don't find him attractive. And I'm like, you don't find godliness attractive? You don't find leadership capabilities attractive? Like, what do you find attractive? And if it is only, well, six-pack abs, you know, six-figure salary, you know, pre-med, if it's only these things that Hollywood told you to find attractive, I would just make sure that it's the scripture that's informing what we find attractive and not Hollywood, which has the highest divorce rate on planet Earth.

Okay? Like, isn't it ironic that the people who are the worst at marriage get to inform what we should look for in marriage? Isn't that ironic? That's crazy. It's like, we've got to hit reset on this thing, man. We've got to go back to the basics. And people are going to argue with this episode

because I've been having these arguments for over a decade now. And so you're going to argue with me in your head, but just consider what I'm saying prayerfully. Like you're looking for someone. Dating is the job interview. So what's the position? As a wife or a husband, a mother or a father to your children, consider what the position is and then consider what you're looking for.

Because I see people all the time marry someone who's super hot by the world's standards, but they make a miserable spouse and they get stuck in a miserable marriage. Then they become roommates. They married for what they thought was going to be incredible sex. Nobody's having sex. They're not even sleeping in the same room. You know, they're, they are roommates or less than.

Most of the people can choose whoever they want on planet Earth and most people choose incorrectly. And people argue with me and I'm like, hey, what's the divorce rate? We can go really conservative and say 40%. Okay? Now, if 40% of people are getting divorced, so they're undoing their marriage,

marriage. There's this other large percentage of people who are staying married, but they don't, they're not intimate. They're, they're just roommates. So most people choose poorly. And I would say be somebody who chooses correctly. That's encouraging. So in order to choose correctly, right, the ladies got to know what to look for in a man. Yeah. The men have to know what to look for in a woman. That's right. So for the women first, what does it mean to be a man according to the Bible? Yeah, I mean in two words that people will say are outdated. That's why I called the book outdated because I was like there's so much confusion around this. I think of biblical masculinity is God in the Garden of Eden saying, hey, I want you to bring order to this.

You know, there's chaos here. I want you to begin to name the animals and I want you to care for them. I want you to be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and subdue it. Cultivate the land. make beautiful things. And so this is a picture of biblical masculinity right there out of the gate. Two words that I don't think are outdated is kind of protector and provider.

Now that we can over index on these, like, you know, can the wife be the breadwinner? Sure. I mean, like, is that possible? Sure. You're going to have, if you marry Taylor Swift, you're going to have a really hard time outdoing her income. I imagine, right? Yeah.

And, but, and, you know, as the protector, is there exceptions to that? if you marry, I don't know, Ronda Rousey, like, she may play the protector. I don't know, but. Yeah, she'd kill me with a filmmaker. Yeah, but I'm just saying for most relationships, like if somebody kicks in the door at 3 a.m., you know, and I'm like, hey, Monica, go see who that is. Like, people are going to say, you're a terrible human being. Like, you need to get your butt out of bed and go and see who that is with a baseball bat, right?

And so I think that's something to think through. but the list I like the hand you know the thing that I said yeah but I'll give you a verse I really like this verse and it's it's not a dating verse I'll tell you why it's not a dating verse that's important let's not in the conversation without talking why there's not a dating verse in the scripture that's important but a great verse is 1 Timothy 412 and it says do not let anyone look down on you because you're young it's why that's why I love being here it's like you're 21 yeah yeah like am I and my daughters, like my kids look up to you, their friends look up to you, and I want them to have a role model of someone who wants to give their life to telling other

people about Jesus. Don't let anyone look down on you because you're young. And then he tells us how. But set an example for believers in speech, conduct, love, faith, and purity. And he gives us five things to examine. What comes out of their mouth? what what do they say because Jesus tells us that what comes out of someone's mouth tells you what's in their heart and so why you can't see someone's heart the Bible says you can't see their heart by what comes

out of their mouth so examine their speech conduct not what they do to you because they're interviewing for the job of your spouse and dating but what do they do for someone who can do nothing for them in return what do they do for the server like I've seen this about you Bryce we've had a few meals together like you are so attentive to the person serving as food. You're such a generous tipper. You know, you, you want to leave that person better than you found them. You want to positively impact them for the kingdom of God. That's the kind of person you want to marry, someone who conducts themselves around strangers in a holy and honorable way. Speech, conduct, love, what do they love? How do they love? Faith, that's the second Corinthians

614 that we talked about. And then purity. Are they radically committed to purity? If they say they love you, but their hand is going anywhere other than a ring box, like, do they really love you? Or do they just want to use you? Do they just want something from you? And I think this is, we're hurting each other in the way that we date. So I really like that verse, examine their speech, conduct, love, faith, and purity. Set an example for believers.

Yeah, I mean, even that goes back to that verse in Ephesians, where it literally talks about the husband is going to lay their life down. Yeah. For the significant of it, for their wife. Yeah. And that strikes me. Yeah. There's a weight to that.

Totally. What do you think has caused this resurgence of, I don't know, I feel like it's hard to be a man sometimes, quote-unquote. Why do you think it is hard to be a man? Like are we, are men hardwired to be protectors and providers? or is that something that you have to teach yourself? Because I have moments of fear. I have moments of struggle. I have moments of brokenness.

Does that mean I'm not a protector or provider? Or is that something I have to teach into myself? How do I build that, I don't know, beat that into my head. How do I get that in me? Yeah, yeah. Let me go slow in this turn on this one because I don't want to be misunderstood. and there's a lot of confusion out there on this topic. And so I wrote a book, Your Story Has a Villain,

and that's kind of the reason behind studying spiritual warfare for three years. And I really think there are some strongholds in our days, demonic activity where there's so much confusion around what it means to be a man. I think men feel beat up. I think we haven't had great examples. A lot of us haven't had great examples of Father. us had absent dads. Some of us had bad dads. And so we're looking for those role models to follow. We've coped with pornography. Pornography, it's not just a bad idea because it rewires your

brain. It's not just a bad idea because it causes you to objectify women. It's not just a bad idea because a addiction to pornography is not an addiction to sex. It's a addiction to variety. So to the porn addict, monogamy is very, very difficult. In fact, it's a systematic training, a university for adultery. It's very difficult for the porn addict to go into marriage and only love one person. By the way, I'm speaking from experience as a porn addict for over a decade. And then I got married and I was like, oh, no, what did I do? And I had to go through recovery.

It had to get well. And so I think for all of these reasons, it's just kind of stripped us of drive. It stripped us of ambition, any kind of kingdom, godly, holy ambition. And so we're really just left with, hey, how do we just get through life? Like, how do we drift through life? And I think that the enemy has done that. Then I also think there's a movement right now that it's just riddled with confusion. It's like, hey, it's kind of a modern feminism that says, hey, anything you can do, I can do.

and it speaks out of both sides of its mouth because it's like like I said if somebody kicks in the door at 2 a.m. And I'm like, hey, Monica, go see who that is. Well, then I'm the bad guy. But if I say that I need to be the guy that always goes to see who it is, then I'm also the bad guy. So there's just so much confusion there around roles and what does that look like. And I do. I'm, I am a, I guess like a soft complementarian to put a theological term on it. I do believe God made male and female different to play different roles. Now I'm not saying that a woman can't work outside the home, so that would be like a really hard complimentarian stance. That's not where I'm at at all.

I'm just like look at me and my wife and I look at most men and most women, and I'm like they're different. There are things that my wife is much better at than I am. And those things are necessary and they play a role in the raising of our children that is invaluable. Like there are so many things that she's better at than me. And there are some things where I'm going to excel beyond her capabilities because of how God made me as a male. And so I think that plays a role in marriage that we need to consider. So on the flip side from what women should look for in a man,

what should the man be looking for in a godly woman in today's day and age? Yeah, I think you're looking for someone. If the job is a great wife and a great mother to my kids, then I would consider, okay, what are the qualities that would make someone a great wife and a great mother to my kids. I think you have to think beyond the bedroom. If you have a really healthy sex life, you're having sex 0.6% of the time.

That's if you're doing it a lot. 0.6% of the time, which means you better be really great at a lot of the things you're going to be doing 99.4% of the time. That's a lot of conversations. You know, that's a lot of other things. And I just don't think dudes think about that. I don't think dudes think about how her body's going to change through pregnancy

and giving birth to three children. I don't think a lot of dudes are thinking about how there's parts of her bodies that are going to be off limits for long periods of time. And this is how porn has just really messed us up. And so you're thinking through the character qualities of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control, Galatians 5. this is a great list to look for in a wife i wrote another book called outdated i mentioned earlier and there's actually i have a list in there of what to look for in a guy and what to look for in a girl to try to

just you know spell that out but first peter three is a great scripture ephesians five you mentioned earlier it's a great scripture colossians three proverbs 31 i know there's a lot of big iro roll moment for people yeah it's like oh proverbs 31 but it's it is it's great king lemuel uh there's a a good, you know, list of qualities that actually come from his mom, you know, there to consider. So why is there no verse in the Bible about dating? Great question. Because dating's about 120 years old. Okay. Be ready to argue with me, listener. Prior to 120 years ago, no one in the history of the world ever went on a date. okay you don't have a single biblical example of a date it was arranged marriage um song of solomon chapter

one verse four says that their friends and family praised their love more than wine which is to say they appreciated uh that god brought them together more than the party more than the open bar more than the the food that was served that they they came together and said hey this makes sense uh jesus says what God is brought together, let man not separate. There was this bringing together in that culture, in a biblical culture. There were times that you would meet your spouse at the altar. Like, where does physical attraction fit into that narrative? Like meeting your spouse at the altar.

Yeah. Right? And so I think that's, you can see how far we've come in 2025, where we hold physical attraction and, you know, to the highest standard. You know, we put it in the first place. But dating, you ready for this? Dating entered the English language as a euphemism for prostitution. A guy was talking on a radio show, and he was talking about his girlfriend, and he said,

she started taking dates with other guys, meaning she was sleeping with other men, and that's where the word entered the English language, dating. Okay, as a euphemism for prostitution to go on a date meant to exchange sex. sexual favors for an experience. Now consider how we date in 2025, the world. They exchange sexual experience, sexual favors for an experience. Like, show me a good time, take me to a great dinner. Let's go on an incredible vacation, and then let's get a great hotel room,

and I'll show you a good time. That's really how a lot of the world thinks about dating. And so I'm not trying to kiss it goodbye, but I do think we need to redeem it. and what dating needs to be for believers is a pathway to a promise. And so I would say, you know, you have a girlfriend. Yeah. I would say, what do you need to find out about her

to determine if she would be a great wife? I don't know. I don't even know. Like the times I spend with her are amazing. Yeah. And I love seeing her heart and I love seeing her character. And I also love the downtime moments where it's just like we're laughing about stupid stuff. Yeah.

Or like it's silly and things like that. I guess for me personally, not that we haven't had these conversations, but like what, what, kind of almost like what you proposed earlier is like, I feel like the biggest thing for me is what, what are you attracted to about me the most? Yeah. And what am I attracted to you about the most? Yeah. I think that's a really healthy conversation to have.

I think it's a very good question to consider for people who are dating is what do I need to find out about them to determine if they would be a suitable spouse. What is the gap? And then how do I intentionally find that out quickly and effectively? Because I'll be honest with you. As someone who's been single, as someone who's dated, and someone who's been married, dating is the worst of the three. Singleness, awesome. You can go places, do things. You can leverage it for the kingdom. First Corinthians seven. You know, you're concerned about the fairs of the kingdom. Paul writes that he's plagiarizing Matthew 19 he says Jesus says in Matthew 19 there are some who are celibate for the sake of the kingdom not everyone who can accept it but those who can should

like singleness is awesome marriage amazing you get you can sleep in the same bed you can snuggle you can have sex you can be intimate you can literally create life and children and raise those children to know God and sit at the breakfast table and make memories on family vacation. It's awesome. Singleness awesome. Marriage awesome. Dating. Dating. Not so awesome. It's like I got to be around someone that I'm really attracted to, but I can't really touch them in a way that that causes their body to begin to prepare for sex because that wouldn't be loving. And so I'm trying to restrain this constantly and I'm and I, but I have these strong feelings for them, but there's all these baked in insecurities because I don't know if they feel the same way about me all the time.

And we just kind of go through these emotional highs and lows. So I would try to get out of the dating phase as quickly and effectively as possible to say what do I need to know about this person to understand if they would be a suitable spouse so that we can get this show on the road or stop wasting each other's time because again this dating thing totally manmade didn't exist prior to 120 years ago totally our invention that is now a cultural phenomenon in America at least of how we we try to find a spouse what about courting like is that not the same thing basically? You're like, where did that come from? Yeah, I think it is about the same thing. So courting was when you would really pursue a woman through her father. And so you would talk to her

dad. You would spend time together in the living room. So a lot of times I think we play some word games as Christians like courting dating, you know, we just put some parameters around it. But really with the invention of the automobile, like the car, because when you couldn't drive, It was just like if you wanted to see, you know, pursue a woman, you'd have to go to her house. You'd have to talk to her parents. And then you'd really spend time together there. It wasn't really in the backseat of the movies. I mean, a lot of times you're sitting on the front porch where everyone could look in on that relationship.

There was an authenticity and a transparency to it. But that's all gone away because now we're, you know, and then with the birth of technology, even, a lot of dating happens through FaceTime and, you know, Tinder and whatnot. So I know a lot of people that, I want to get your thoughts on this, say they see Paul say it's better to get married than to burn with passion, right? Yeah. And something that I kind of try to understand, is it wrong to date for a long time or no? Because to the people that say, oh, well, we got married because we were burning with a lot of passion. My question, not like trying to be like a butthole, but it's like, do you just not have self-control?

Yeah. Because self-control is the fruit of the spirit? Sure. So is it bad today for a long time if that fruit is bearing fruit in your life of self-control? And like to say that dating is this job application, like what is the time limit on it? I know people that I've gotten married in less than three months and they are so happy. And then I know other people that I've gotten married in two years and they are incredibly happy. I'm using that as a broad label on it.

I also know people that I got married quickly and screwed up. And then I also know people that have dated long and gotten married and they screwed up. So I mean, is there like really a formula or can you just be like different? It's all made up. You can't determine obedience by the outcome. So I don't always like as Christians to go to use others as examples. I just, I think about the biblical text and how does the scripture inform our behavior here. And so Monica and I dated for three years.

We got married. It was great for a year. It was really hard year two. We almost got divorced. and then community came in our lives and we have an amazing marriage we're over over 20 years now three kids and and I would say we dated too long I don't think that our by a lot our biology was made and in and designed to spend time with someone that we really really like and we're physically attracted to I mean we're basically like just restraining our bodies in ways that we we weren't

meant to and then you get married and you stand in front of your friends and family and you're like you know for rich or poor sickness and health till death there's part i do and now you're like you have to tell your body but hey all that stuff i've been telling you no no no no no now it's okay and some people really struggle with the flipping of that switch and so i'm just i'm just not like the biggest fan of the way that we date today um i'm much i'm a much bigger fan of like short dating but the problem with that is a lot of people don't have the maturity that is required for marriage. And so I literally didn't have this thought till right now. But I'm so passionate about this that I've invested in a matchmaking site,

qualified date.com. And so shout out. I didn't come on here to talk about that. It didn't even cross my mind until right now. No, no. We were at your house and you literally imagined like seven people on there. We were there a few weeks ago. Yeah.

So. So it's, it's, um, It's like, and people are like, oh, you know, you're a pastor, you're trying to get rich. Listen, I've made zero dollars on this, zero and won't for a very, very long time possibly ever. It is a passion project because I look at the landscape of the world and I'm just like, man, we are doing this so wrong. And people are so unhappy. And I think if we prioritize the things that God prioritized, that we would be set up for much more success. and they say, well, how do you know?

Listen, I've done lots of marriages. I served in, and I mean this with humility, but the largest young adult ministry in America at least, and what that meant is maybe I've done more weddings as anyone my age or as many have. I've done a lot of weddings. I don't know how to say that. And so I've seen the ones that work.

I've seen the relationships that work. I've seen the ones that don't. I see what people are doing. So that's the experience I'm bringing to the table. I don't have a dog in the fight. I'm not trying to rock your world or mess you up. I want anyone listening to be healthy and happy and have a thriving relationship with Jesus first.

And then if they desire marriage, a thriving marriage. And if you don't want marriage, a thriving single life. Like you can be an amazing follower of Jesus and single. It's not lesser than. It's not JV. It's awesome. Jesus was single. Paul was single.

But if you desire marriage, I want you to find marriage. in a way that's that's God honoring. And that's why we did that website. So I hear sometimes people on TikTok say, man, they were my missing rib. You're my missing rib. Like you were my soulmate.

Yeah, yeah, soulmate. Do you think God makes a person specifically for each person? Or do you think it's just kind of like free game, I guess? It's fascinating. Soulmate comes from Greek mythology. And it was this belief that Zeus had cut people and half and that literally like half your soul is around there and you have to find them. And it's a rather hopeless idea because you're like trying to find the needle in the haystack

amongst 8 billion people in the world. Like you've got to find that one person. And I would say that a biblical perspective on this is that you could be really happy with hundreds of thousands of people of the opposite sex that were born. you know, in some window around when you were. And they love Jesus and they love Jesus. And together, y'all could be a great ministry partner, you know, and really learn to enjoy each other and really learn to serve each other and really learn to sacrifice for each other.

And it's such an unpopular perspective because we so idolize feelings, emotions, and physical attraction. But watch, there's a lot of people that put the feelings, emotions, physical attraction and chemistry in first place. And they marry and it's really hot and heavy and then they divorce. Like The Bachelor and The Bachelor at the TV show has done such a great service here because we can see that they have created chemistry. They've put beautiful people in a room and you get to choose from lots of them.

And we have very few weddings from that show. Okay. so my friend Sean Lowe and Catherine, who are believers, and I think it's the Holy Spirit that holds them together, not the show. And I know that there's been at least one other and maybe a couple more. But for the most part, it's an epic failure in creating a marriage. Epic, hear me, quote me, epic failure in creating a marriage. Because they prioritize the wrong things.

They prioritize the things that the world prioritized, and that's why. It's not working out. Yeah. So do you think it's wrong, though, to have like a perspective of like, oh, this person kind of like completes me? Yeah. Or like maybe not complete. Like, oh, like they're my missing rib.

Yeah, yeah. I do. I think it's a, I think it's this type of person goes really well with me. And the argument against that theologically would be the sovereignty of God. What's like, but God, if God knows everything, then God knows who I'm going to end up with, which means God created somebody for me to find. And I would say, God has zero expectations that you. would be God and that you would know what God knows.

And so God gives you parameters to look for. And for the most of history, people determined that for you on your behalf. Like you did not get to speak into who you married for most of history. And especially when the Bible was written, that was true. And so for me to think, like, listen, I'm six foot seven. I'm weird tall. Like LeBron James. Like, I'm weird tall.

My wife is first. vibe two. I've got dark hair. She has blonde hair. I like guns, motorcycles in the UFC. She likes babies and puppies. You know, like we couldn't be more different, man. I'm an extrovert. Go, go, go. She's an introvert. You know, I love vacation. I love, I love big dates at nice restaurants. She loves simple food and game nights in the living room. Like, we are opposites in so many ways. And that has been a force to be reckoned with. because we compliment each other so well. Now, if we shared a lot of interest, that could be great too.

Yeah. But I don't think, having been married 20 years, that God made her and me at the same time so that we would only be each other's match. I'll say it like this, Bryce. Is there someone that Monica could be happier with out there? And the answer is absolutely yes. Is there someone I could be happier with out there? The answer is absolutely yes, but it doesn't matter because we said I do to each other.

So we are in a covenant relationship together before God, the creator of the heavens of the earth. So we will love each other until we both die regardless of what happens. And outdated, I wrote about this couple that they got married and four days in on the honeymoon. She gets a wave crashes her up against a rock and she's now a quadriplegic. now that dude's lot in life is changing her diaper for the rest of the like that's like he he he is that what he signed up for because the world's going to say oh you can you can let him you know you can get out of that you know you should be happy get her a good nurse whatever no man for the rest of his life he's taking care of her because four days into the honeymoon she was crashed against

a rock and she's now a quadriplegic and i think it's a beautiful example of christ Dang, that's powerful. That's kind of like Josea Gomer. Straight up. Like literally, like... You got a whole book of the Bible on that. Hey, I want you to love this woman who's paying other dudes to have sex with her. What? Crazy.

That's how God loves us. How do we create healthy dating boundaries in relationships? Is that kind of like a Christian liberty kind of thing in a sense of what I mean? I label that as in, do boundaries in dating? is it like if my list of boundaries is different than so-and-so's boundaries from like a broad perspective does that make mine better or worse than theirs or how do you create that that set of boundaries you mean physical boundaries and any sort of boundaries physical spiritual cause like sometimes people are like oh man you shouldn't pray together when you're dating and some people are like oh well you

should pray together when you're dating and like to me I'm like oh I don't even know like I to me I when I hear that like something like that like you shouldn't pray together when you're dating, to me, I don't understand the wrong, why that's wrong. Yeah, I don't either. Yeah, I don't know. It has to be a... Is that legalistic? Not necessarily about the prayer thing, but like...

Here's why I think it is legalistic is because I cannot think of a verse. So it's a wisdom principle, potentially for some. And so I don't, like, if you said, hey, I don't pray with Maddie because it just, it does something to my heart, doesn't guard her heart, Proverbs 423. I'd say, man, that's amazing wisdom principle for you. But if you said no one should, I would say that's legalism because the Bible doesn't say that. Yeah. What the Bible says is flee sexual immorality.

All other sin a person commits are outside the body. Whoever sin sexually sins against their own body, do not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. Who's in you, whom you've received from God, you're not your own. You've been bought by price. Therefore, honor God with your body. This is 1st Corinthians 6, 18 through 20. and so what I would say what I believe the scripture's teaching is that when we when our bodies begin to prepare for sex we've gone too far and so we were like hey can I can we kiss I'm like what depends on how you kiss like are you are you like tongue kiss

you're French kissing like laying down rubbing petting it's like because that's unloving man you are revving up that engine and then you're pulling the brake and then you're leaving and like that's going it's it's painful yeah it's it's unloving it's not kind it's not a kindness to them and you say you love them you say you like them but then you hurt them like what kind of person does that you know and so i don't say that to shame you i'm just like i'm asking i'm genuinely asking the question i was that kind of person by the way so um it's not judgment it's like man just think about how unwise that is and so if i apply first Corinthians 6, then I'm just thinking, hey, if when, when my biology begins to say, okay, hey, it's like the way that God made me is brilliant design, you know, the way that God made us to

literally create life. It's like when my body begins to prepare to create life, like I've gone too far, likewise with, with a female. Why do you think that society idolizes romantic relationships today so much? Because we idolize pleasure and sex feels good in most cases and it's the highest high we can get apart

from drugs and so the dopamine levels and the endorphins that are released during orgasm are among the highest that you can realize naturally. You can have your body can release endorphins on a run. You call a runner's high

or during a workout or When you get really great news, you know, that kind of things. But the serotonal levels, the endorphin levels that are released during intimacy are the highest that you can naturally experience. And we're constantly, it's the same reason. It's like, why does anybody do crystal meth? Like, have you seen? It seems like people get really stuck doing crystal meth must feel really good because then they can't not do it. Well, it's the same is true with sex outside of marriage.

on an erotic scale of one to ten sex outside of marriage isn't 11 now people who are saved themselves are like well wait what am I missing out on and I'm like you're missing out on something really addictive um you know what else would be a high erotic scale sex with your neighbor or spouse you know it's because like there's a danger factor yeah so like life isn't about let me go and try to experience the most amount of pleasure I can't I can life is really about restraint learning to enjoy the pursuit of holiness, a nearness to God. Like that's what's lost, I think, in our culture today. God, he says, be holy because I am holy.

And so what does it look like for me to be sanctified? First Thessalonians for, this is God will for you that you would be sanctified, that you would avoid sexual immorality. He says, you want to know the will of God, that you would grow in godly, and that you would avoid sexual morality. That's what he says. Dang. This is God's will for you.

Whoa. So, dang, I had such a random thought, and then I lost it for a second. It'll come back to me. I'm going to shift over to marriage really quick. Sure. Not necessarily about marriage. This is more so on the sexual side of things in marriage,

which I think a lot of people, these are the top two questions that I think a lot of people ask. about anything sexual. Number one, in regards to marriage and sex, what leads to a healthy sex life in marriage, if it's not about sex, right? Because dating is not about sex. Relationships are not about sex. But sex being a gift from God, what leads to that? Yeah, man. So it's like the Hebrew word dode, this mingling of souls. Matt Chandler writes about this. It's so different. It's so different. different than what you think is a single person.

I'll just say speak first person, very different than what I thought of as a single person. Selfless service. So as a, like we often, when we think about intimacy, we think what can I get, what pleasure can I experience, but it's really an act of giving. You know, how can I, how can I serve my lover and make sure that she has cared for and she feels safe

and protected? and and you know I'm gentle and I'm not trying to be weird now I know that people are going to take that out of context and make a meme about me but I wasn't trying to be weird either asking it but I know I know people at people genuinely are like yeah giving like like selflessness I always tell like single friends I'm like don't live alone like if you desire marriage don't live alone because idiosyncrasies grow in isolation and and marriage is really a long action and marriage is really a long act of selflessly serving somebody for the rest of your life. And it's beautiful and it's great and it's awesome. But it's hard and it's work. And there's some real challenges there. And so one of the best ways to prepare for marriages have roommates, dysfunctional roommates that don't do the dishes, you know.

Those kind of roommates that will prepare you for marriage. In marriage, can the bedroom become sinful? Sure. And how? Yeah. I think when you're, when you have no regard, for your partner's your spouse's safety when you try to bring in images outside the marriage and so some people are like oh well we'll look at porn together it's like that that is that is so

sinful and evil and Satan receives it as worship uh pornotic Satan receives pornography is worship you can quote me on that um yeah I don't I don't mean to be prideful when I say that I'm just I've been so personally hurt by pornography. I brought so much pain on myself and others with that, that I think the enemy is glorified in it. If you push your spouse to do something that they're not comfortable doing, it's not a sales pitch. Like it's a time of serving them and caring for them.

And that's really what I mean. I think so often there's so many husbands that want to live out all their pornographic fantasies in marriage and that's that's not what it's about it's about serving your spouse yeah that that danger factor that you brought up with of like oh erotic experience could be you know sleeping with your neighbor's significant other or outside of marriage it remind me i think like proverbs four or five or six when it's like writing about the adulterous woman like prepping the bed like fine linen and the and the scent and and don't worry my husband's gone like this is going to be an elaborate experience that's literally what my

brain thinks about yeah how how can men or women love their significant other without giving their significant other power over them if that makes sense what do you mean by power over when I say power I mean like when they start to matter more than what matters most yeah because that that does sound like really intense but I know there's it's it's easy in a relationship yeah I believe because of It's a form of love. To label that person or that thing as, oh, yep, this is my everything. And then you kind of lose side of yourself who you are.

Maybe you even lose your hobbies. Like one of the struggles I had, my relationship right now is like my first real, like, long relationship. And I lost, I didn't know what hobbies I enjoyed after a little bit because I was so thought Maddie was just amazing, which she is. She's absolutely amazing. but I like didn't even know what I wanted to do. Yeah.

I lost myself for a second. Yeah, I would just say like if you, if you're not a follower of Jesus, I'm not here to give you dating lessons like, you know, find Jesus and pursue him, figure out if he's true. I'm not looking to change your behavior, but to influence your belief. If you are a follower of Jesus, I think what dating looks like is really a sweet friendship. of a guy and a man and a woman saying, hey, let's pursue Christ together.

Tommy Nelson talks about it like you're running a race. And it's like, man, I'm just pursuing Jesus. I'm running hard after Jesus. I'm running toward Jesus. I'm going on this mission trip. I'm serving at my church. I'm going to church on Sundays. I'm going to recovery night, discipleship night.

I'm serving. I'm doing these things. And as I'm running this race, I look beside me. And I notice that, man, there's this woman beside me often as I'm running this race. race she's running hard after Jesus too and and at some point and I'm like hey do you want to do you want to continue to run with me you want to keep running this race together for the rest of our lives you do okay great and I think that's dating into marriage what it looks like is you're just you're the greatest lover of your soul is Jesus Christ you're pursuing him and you guys are pursuing him

together and when you realize like hey I I like pursuing this guy you like pursuing this guy let's pursue this guy together that that's that's what dating looks like and so if we learn from Hollywood. It's like, oh my gosh, you're amazing. You're hot. You're so attractive. I can't stop thinking about you. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. And it's all of that. And you just give your heart away. And then you break up. And then you're, like, the average breakup is like going through divorce today. It's like the way that we date. We're like so emotionally invested. And then we have to undo that and rip a heart away from them. You know? And it's like our hearts weren't made for that, man. Yeah. Like no wonder.

Anxiety is so high. No wonder. so high. Our hearts weren't made to like our hearts were really made to be given away once. And then and then maybe we experienced grief through death and then maybe remarriage, but our hearts were not made to be given away over and over and over again. So we have to consider our biological makeup, like how God, the creator of the heavens in the earth, designed us and literally like how he made us. And so that's why I'm just not a big fan of dating. like you're married, I'm a fan of dating to get married quickly and efficiently and effectively

as possible. Yeah, I like that. One thing I wanted to close with is about your new book. I wanted to talk about it because I love you. It's about spiritual warfare. And I think the enemy attacks relationships, the same way he attacks our mind, the same thing, he attacks everything. You said you researched three years on spiritual warfare.

We just love for you to talk a little about your story has a villain and kind of the heart behind it and where people can find it. Yeah, I was raised Catholic. I didn't go to church in college and I would say I became a Christian 22 years ago when I was at a club and someone invited me to church and I went hungover and smelled like smoke from the night before and surrendered my life to Jesus. That's the short version. But I began to explore world religions. I looked at the Hindu faith, the Buddhist faith, the Jewish faith, the Islamic faith, Mormons, Jova's Witness, Church of Christian Science, Scientology, and I kept tripping over Jesus and I when I realized that the Christian narrative was true that Jesus died for my sins

and God raised him from the dead and I placed my faith in that I didn't give enough thought to this idea of the enemy and it's like when I was in L.A. not long ago there were these fires you know the L.A. fires it was so weird to me that there were these firemen like giving their lives to fight these fires and trying to like save people and houses and animals and horse all the things And meanwhile, like so much of LA was just going on like normal. Like, I mean, they were like, I saw a dude on Venice Beach getting a massage, you know. Other people were skateboarding. I'm like, dude, there's a fire right there.

And I think we think about spiritual warfare like that. Like, oh, yeah, there's angels and demons fighting all around us. But until it impacts me, until it impacts my house, I'm not even concerned about it. Until I have to step into the war. But the reality is you're in the war right now, whether you realize it or not. The enemy is, is fighting you. You have demons around you. Like one third of the angelic realm fell with Satan.

And those fallen angels, they're trying to keep you out of right relationship with God. This is why your quiet time is hard. This is why the Bible doesn't make sense when you read it. This is why when you pray, you feel like you're just talking to the air and that God feels far. It's all a part of the spiritual war. This is why you're so tempted in dating to go farther than you should. You know, it's like dating without the intentions of marriage or like shopping without money. You either take something that doesn't belong to you or you leave frustrated.

You either leave frustrated or you take something that doesn't belong to you. Dang. And that's why I'm like, that's where the enemy works. And so your story has a villain is just really about that. Your story, your narrative here on earth, you have an enemy. He hates you and he's not afraid of you. but he's terrified of Jesus. So you want to be close to Jesus.

Psalm 23, you know, the Lord is my shepherd. The pronouns change in that Psalm. I don't know if you've ever noticed that. But he says, the Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. He makes me lie down in your pastures. He leads me beside quiet waters. He restores my soul.

He guides me a path of righteousness for his name's sake, for his name's sake. For even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will not fear for you are with me. Your rod and your staff. They come from me. In the valley of the shadow of death, the sheep draw near to the shepherd because the shepherd is their protection. And so that's the solution.

Satan's not afraid of you. Satan's never been anywhere near you, by the way. He's not omnipresent. He can only be in one place at one time. Demons have been around you, but Satan doesn't even know who we are. He's in somewhere with kings and rulers and genocide and wars and whatnot. But so. if I'm being attacked spiritually, I need to move close to Jesus because they're terrified of Jesus.

Yeah. Where can people find this book? Everywhere books are sold, man. Amazon. Yeah, Amazon, all the things, Barnes & Noble's. You can go to jonathanathapucluta.com, which is obnoxious, but just something that the publisher wants you to do when you write a book. And so it's all there. Well, I'm excited to read it.

Thank you for getting it to me. Thanks for dropping some wisdom on us about dating relationships. Thanks for giving me that Waffle shirt and the double XL. Yeah. Hey, you know, you already know. Come on. Thanks for coming on, guys.

Thank you so much for watching. Guys, if you appreciated the wisdom we received from Pastor Jonathan, go check him out on social media. Love you guys. And see you guys in the next episode. Yeah, love you guys. Guys, thank you so much for watching and tuning into these episodes.

Guys, if you love watching and listening to these episodes, aside from following us along on Instagram, TikTok, Spotify, YouTube, I want to ask you guys, would you guys consider partnering with our ministry financially? Your guys' radical generosity is actually what continues to fuel and produce these podcast episodes and our evangelism videos. So if you guys feel a burden to support this ministry, reach lost souls with the gospel through digital and in-person ministry, go to Jesus and the street.org, pray and ask God,

how should I partner with Bryce and their ministry and Jesus in the street ministry? Should I partner with them in prayer? Should I partner with them in finances? Should I partner with them in support? whatever it may be, pray and ask God, how should I support Jesus in the street ministry? Love you guys. See you guys next week for the next episode.