The Bryce Crawford Podcast - Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)

Episode Date: December 30, 2024

In this episode, Bryce talks with Carl Lentz about redemption from Sin.

What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Bryce Crawford podcast. I'm Bryce. And today, a very special guest. I'm super excited about this episode. Got Pastor Carl Lentz with us today. How are you doing? So excited to be here, bro.

Let's go. You're awesome. It's so cool just to even be around. People that are as genuine and faith-filled as you, because unfortunately, it feels like it's kind of rare. So just to be able to see you from far and meet you, man. It's already really encouraging. Can you cover up your tattoos?

before we finish because I don't feel like God can move in an environment with visible tattoos. Really? No, I'm joking. Even the dog knew I was joking. He was barking. You looked at me so sincerely like, oh my gosh, no. You have amazing, amazing work. I love it.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm glad you're here. I'm super excited. I want to talk about your story, but I don't want that to be the highlight of the podcast because I feel like, and I just want to hear from your perspective because there's so much stuff out there, but I don't want that to be the main point, because I feel like it's everything that people always ask you, and there's more to you than that, you know?

Like, yeah, like, it's like, I don't know, when I look in today's society, I feel like, just with anything in general, when Jesus says, like, love your neighbor as yourself, nowadays, across the board, I feel like I'm always asking, where's our neighbor? Like, we just never care about our neighbor. We never love them. We just can't look past the things that people have done. And then, like, even before that, like, I'm reading scripture this morning and Luke 6, and he's like, he's talking like, yeah, like, you know, you guys want to return evil for evil. You guys want to judge people. And with that, when you got a log in your own eye and I'm just like, man, what are we doing? Like, there's more to us than just the faults we've done. Like, if people

looked at me for everything I'd done wrong, then I don't know. Like, I wouldn't be sitting here, you know. But I think there's a lot of cool. I've been so incredible. heard by you for years. I've been listening to you for a long time. I became a Christian when I was 17. When I was 17, I was listening to a lot of you. I was listening to, I read this book. I remember when I first became a Christian, I read this book called Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudom. I became a Christian on Christmas Day. And then I listened to some sermons that you preach at Hill Song, and I listened to, I'm forgetting last name right now. I'm blanking right now. Who was I listening to?

throw out some names TD Jakes TD Jakes No I wasn't listening Francis Chan Francis Chan I was gonna go like With the spectrum

So there's like so many different John Piper But I was listening to you Francis Chan And reading the same books The Sematic Theology I was super encouraged But I want to go back to like

When you were I heard a little bit of your story But where did you grow up Yeah Did you grow up in the church How long have you been a Christian following the Lord? Yeah, I feel like I've been a Christian as long as I can remember in that my family is amazing. So my mom and dad live in Virginia Beach where I kind of born and raised.

And Virginia Beach, Virginia, shout out to everybody on the East Coast. And my parents, they really love Jesus. So over the years, you know, my journey looked like trying to figure out my place in church. We went to a church when I was in high school that I didn't connect with. and that kind of began my journey of trying to figure it out for myself. And so high school wasn't really a time where I was, I think, following Jesus like I know is possible. And I always knew that, too. I always was conflicted. And then I ended up going to college at North Carolina State in Raleigh, North Carolina,

played basketball there. And I loved it. I had achieved and realized a dream that was way out of my depth. Like, I was not good enough to be there, but I worked really hard, and teams always can use that. So I was able to find myself in a position where, you know, my eyes opened. And in that moment in college, it was like a really rough night. I was my sophomore year and I was at a party and some really bad things were going down at this party.

And I remember distinctly feeling if I participate in this, I might lose my soul. Like I might, I don't know if I can ever, because at this point I'm still kind of like, I'm trying to do the right thing and, you know, and falling on my face all the time and just kind of just, had God adjacent views. And I just remember going, I can't do this. And I left that party, went home, and my parents took me to a church in Virginia Beach, Virginia. And a guy named Steve Kelly was preaching, who's still there. And I'd never heard the gospel presented in that way at the end.

And I've heard the gospel a lot. But the way that he did it just compelled me to go, I want to make a decision to change my life and do this. And I did. I raised my hand, walk up to that altar. and it began significant changes. And I went back to NC State and realized I can't be here. Like, I'm not going to make it if I stay. I want to begin this new journey.

Went home and then ended up going to my dad, hey, I want to go study the Bible because I'm like you, I'm a theology nerd. And I was like, I want to figure this out for myself because if I'm going to commit my life to this Bible that I don't really believe is necessarily at this point all true, I want to see this for myself. And that began my discovery journey.

of just trying to figure out what this faith is for me. Come out here to California to church on the way, which at the time had a really cool seminary. It might still be gone called King's College and started my little Bible college journey and got a job here in L.A., worked at Gucci. Rodeo Drive. I lived in the house in Van Nu-I's and took my little Honda Shadow motorcycle

through Laurel Canyon to Rodeo Drive every day. And so my first real experience as a Christian was working with all gay people. I didn't even know that, you know, most Christians don't have access or contact with people that don't believe like them at this point. I'm 20. I'm like, if you're breathing and moving, you're a candidate for this good news. Yeah. I loved it. So that's why I learned quickly on my feet how to explain what I believe to people that were already like, oh, here's this young Christian dude. I'm like, hey, I don't know why you feel

like that, but this is what I know. And so all of my initial relationships were people really far from God in their mind. And then I heard about Hillsong and ended up going over there to go to a conference and check. check it out, loved it, and then went back and stayed for four years. And met my best friends there, met my wife there, kind of felt compelled to continue to look at ministry as something that could be from my life. And Left Hill Song went back to Virginia Beach. We did young adult ministry for like, you know, seven, eight years there took a little tiny little thing to something that became really awesome. And that's when we started realizing, you know, there's something special about all of us. You have a special call.

Everybody listening has a special call. And once you give that to God, it's amazing what can happen with it. We realize that about us. Like we have, you know, we're not like supernaturally gifted or anointed, but we're like everybody. If we plant our feet, God will bless us. You know, use us. And so we started seeing that in Virginia.

And then at that time, Joel Houston, who's a phenomenal songwriter, he said, meet me in New York. I'm up here doing some stuff. And I met him up there. And he was like, my dad wants to do a church in America. And I'm like, where? He's like, let's do it here in New York. And I was like, well, nobody else should do that but me and you, because we know so much.

You know, both like, you know, early 30s. But we were genuinely like, man, that's a once in a lifetime shot. Let's go to the city of church graveyards where apparently nobody wants any piece of this. And let's give it a shot. And so we took our little family. We moved to Brooklyn, New York, and started pastor in Hillsong, New York City. And as it grew, you know, our life changed a lot as it does with kids. And I loved it all.

I loved being a part of it. I love what God was doing. We saw hundreds of thousands of people get saved. Hundreds of thousands every year. Like it was, it's a real move of God. And throughout that time, I had some stuff that was broken in me. And I didn't know what I know today, which is if there is a crack in your arm, If there is a hidden habit or struggle that you face and you don't bring it out for somebody to help you wade through, it's not going to go anywhere.

So I got, you know, saved and I had a crazy past. Not crazy. I think I just, I live like a lot of young guys do who don't know Jesus. You like girls. You have sex when you can and you party. And what that does, what you don't realize is as you step into a new phase of life, Jesus forgives you, saves you, cleanses you, empowers you. and the consequence of your sin, eternity is off the table, but you still have to pay for what you did to a degree. So, for instance, if you had a lot of sex, you're going to have to fix some of your wiring. You're going to have to retrain your mind. You're going to have to get specific help for that. In that time, you know, decades ago, we weren't looking at stuff like that. And so I just kind of trucked through.

And, you know, when I found myself in New York at the end of our time there, you know, it just was, I was in trouble. You know, I was broken and I was hurting. and I was really, really, really scared. And God graciously saved my life again. Wow. And some people can call it, you know, an explosion, a scandal, a fall from grace, whatever they want to do. Nobody matters when it comes to your story except for you. Right.

That's one thing I've learned in this. Like I get to frame my own story. So you can call it what you want, but you don't live my life. Right. So my story about my life is that God saved me again. And had he not done that, I did. definitely wouldn't be sitting in Van Eyes with you today. Right.

You know, with a smile on my face and a family at home that is together and health in my mind. So it's been a journey, bro. And I, some of the pain I didn't have to go through, but I did. And what you find is that God can use it all. Absolutely. So to spend any time looking back in regret, it's the most fruitless human emotion we have is regret. So I don't look back. There are times I look back and I can feel sad.

but I'm able to frame it correctly again, which is, you know, thank God I learned. And there's going to be stuff that's always going to be sad. That's the thing about decisions. But overall, I look at the collective story that God's helping me write about my life. And, you know, it's been an exciting journey. Wow. Well, I think you hit something nail on the head. I feel like a lot of people are more tolerant with their own sin than other people.

You know, it's like, yeah. It's like where people go through the same. things like Satan's got no new tricks there's so many people that deal with yeah all all across the board the same stuff and it's like we want to throw shame and condemnation on people when like behind closed doors we're like hurting in ourselves and so like what you're saying how people frame you they're like I can call it a scandal explosion or whatever like and at my perspective like I'm like that's my brother and like I love I love him like that's my brother like and I love him and where's our neighbor when we need him but like oftentimes people are just

just more worried about their perception of themselves. And I'm, I'm even more encouraged by just, I mean, I mean, today, your family, even stronger than before. Yeah. And you guys are just, oh, I can't even imagine. I want to dive into that, what that looks like. But, but for a second, I mean, you guys, when you guys started Hillsong in New York, I mean, when I think about, like, making, like, a digital mark of ministry, I mean, you guys were some of the first. I mean, putting the worship sets on online on YouTube, putting the sermons on there. Like there's like a select few churches that I could say, wow, you guys really had a digital impact.

But you guys were really reaching hundreds of thousands of lives. Yeah, we at that time, man, like Instagram, it just kind of started being Instagram. And we didn't have a whole lot of money to market anything. So we're just like, we're just going to do this superhood style. We're going to use Instagram and we're going to get the word out, you know, on the streets. And so it was a cool time to just use what we had at hand. But yeah, it ended up becoming a lot of stuff that we were doing. A lot of people kind of followed and copied and used as a mold.

And in some ways, it was great because you don't need. You're a great example of that too. If you have the right stuff here, you know, God will find a way to amplify it. And, but yeah, I mean, it was a, it was a cool time. I think you're really kind and mature for how old are you? 21. So, yeah, to look at somebody and say, I see you as my brother, I think what you find is you get older on this journey. A couple things.

One, you know, people's response to your story says more about them than you sometimes. So if you have a story and your reaction is horror, it's like interesting. So if I'm settled in my soul and I'm filled with grace and, you know, I'm steady on my own two feet, you can tell me something today. Hopefully my reaction would show where I'm at, which is, man, I'm here for you. You're not going to scare me. not going to run from you it's not going to but for me to be you know appalled and to shun and to judge we've learned that often those people are a hiding very similar stuff they're pointing out in your life and then two they just haven't dealt with it and and why would my story create this in you it's a question for that person so I think it's a it's a very interesting thing you find for me it does

need to be said because I'm a pastor the standard is higher right and there is there is healthy accountability that when somebody who has my platform for me to make the mistakes I did, yeah, I need to be held accountable when I was. That's not what we're referring to. We're kind of looking at the underbelly of what can become judgment. But if you have a big stage and profile, it comes with it. So I wasn't surprised. You know, as our platform grew, I knew, you know, the people who are around and the people that love you, it can turn on a dime. And yeah, that happened in some regard. So I went from being somebody who a lot of people loved to somebody who was really easy to throw stones at. And I put myself in that position. And that's the way it works.

But did you feel like a lot of pressure, I guess? Like, I'm not necessarily saying like, oh, I have a platform so I've got to, you know, stay like I got to, what you're saying, a lot of people do, like hide it. I mean, more so just in general from people like to deliver to people, like as Hillsong's growing. You guys are like accessing Instagram, YouTube at a very, like no one's really doing it. Everything's growing. Did you feel like a pressure from people to like be there for them? Because I feel like whenever you're in a position of authority, people are always grabbing at you. They're always grabbing at you. And it's just like what how do you navigate, how did you navigate the pressure to stay in your lane and still have intimacy with Jesus despite people grabbing you on a on a rise?

I mean, it's a journey. You learn. how to you learn how to manage it I think I mean what we know now about mental health is so huge for ministers for pastors it's part of my passion moving forward so make sure that you know guys who are behind me even age wise and even not even guys who are my age and beyond there's still some of these principles but learning how to create boundaries learning how to protect yourself learning how to not be a codependent Christian leader because codependency can be a real weakness It's when you try to manage other people's expectations and control their emotions, it's really close to empathy and kindness. So empathy and kindness, if you don't know how to regulate it, turns into major codependence where you end up trying to please everybody all the time.

And I really struggle with that. I think when you're a young pastor, you just want everybody to relax and chill. It's like, and in a church that gets bigger, the number of people who are unhappy gets bigger. And if you don't have your mindset on what that means, it can throw you. And for me, that was an area I didn't really prepare for. So I felt often like I was not doing a good enough job for somebody every day. So you have a great Sunday and there'd be one person. Hey, I had a bad experience with this volunteer.

Okay. And there'd be another person. Hey, we don't have anything for young moms in the Bronx. Yeah, we don't. That sucks. Hey, we need to have a youth ministry that meets in every borough. The list goes on. And if you don't know how to frame it right, that stuff will eat away at you.

because that's also part of the job is managing that. So I didn't, pressure is the wrong word. I think pressure comes from when you kind of don't understand where the power comes from. I've never mistaken that. It's like I, I mean, as a minister, you know quickly, oh my gosh, this is all God using broken people. I do not have the ability to communicate a perfect sermon about a perfect God and a perfect gospel being imperfect. I don't have the goods. and then you watch God show up time and time again

and you start realizing well thank God that one off this ain't on me because I'm not good enough so pressure I never felt I started to feel pressure to manage things and I started to do it internally and that was kind of the beginning

of the end of that chapter for me and just didn't share that pressure and that burden wow well I feel like I can relate to that because I feel like whenever I try to white knuckle my life like everything crumbles like 10 times fast And then there were even times like where, um, for me, like, I felt like as, because I, I kind of was like you, like I got set on fire for Jesus and I immediately jumped into like

telling everybody about Jesus. Like I was like right in there. And I felt like as I was growing, like I was seeing so many things, great things that are amazing, you know, people coming to know Jesus or reaching people and it was great. Um, but then having family struggles of my own at home, it felt like that the one cookie I didn't want to crumble was crumbling. And then I would go and I would try to white knuckle it and fix it myself. And I would make it 10 times worse because I was like trying to do it out of my own strength. And kind of what you were saying, micromanaging in my heart. So when you talk about the end of the period at Hill Song, what, like I don't want to like highlight it too much.

You can talk about any which way you want, my brother. It's whatever helps. What happened exactly? And then I want to know what it was like for your wife and your kids and just understanding what it looked like the healing process for you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Bryce, you're a great question to asker. Also, do you take a moment to just talk about how great your shirt is?

Oh, thanks. Thank you. Thank you. I got to get you one. I mean, if I summed up what happened, I think when I got caught, um, in a life and pattern that became really clear quickly, it began a domino effect. And meaning if you get caught lying,

it's fair to go, what else is this guy lying about? And then you start looking around and say, who is this guy no? And are they guilty of the same? And then this ripple effect goes, and everybody starts running for cover. So you find out that some Christians love to preach and talk about the hard times,

but we don't love to live in them. You find that out. Hopefully you don't, you'll never find that out from the wrong angle. But by and large, man, people, they run. They run from problems. They run from things that are ugly. And my situation was very, very ugly.

So it just began a slow breakdown. I mean, people weren't know what happened. I, you know, there was infidelity in my marriage. And I got caught. And it was a chance for me to really get cleaning and get honest. So it's like, yeah. And even though parts of what were told were very false to fight. some of those details would be so stupid.

Like who wants to be the guy who's like, no, no, no, it wasn't on Tuesday. It was Wednesday. It's like, dude, we're talking about robbing a bank. Who cares what day it's on, right? That's what it was like for me to have to learn how to accept the decisions that I made, put me in a position to have a lot of things be said. But if people want to know what really happened at Hillsong, New York City, human leaders, and are there aspects of the way that church is done that needs to be assessed in

changed for sure that that should happen anyway but it wasn't as complicated and spectacular as some people tried to make it out it just wasn't and it was too juicy of the story for people to not just let it be what it is which is I had some serious issues in my life and when you're a leader they're going to come get you at some point and that's what happened to me and and then yeah it exposed more about the greater hill song movement in in a bunch of different ways and and just started a ripple effect but that's you know the effect on my family was the hardest part of all this because they had nothing to do with my sin and my choices. And that's what you find with sin, bro.

It's less about you and more about the impact it has on other people across the board. Yeah, it affects you. But what we fail to realize sometimes is we're so selfish when it comes to the stuff we're dealing, I'm sinning and it's making me feel like this and God's mad. It's like, yeah, yeah. And your sin impacts other people. So for me to have to see that living color with my own kids, man, it was not easy.

It was not easy. It's something that, you know, for a while I didn't think I could get through. But my wife gave me a chance to figure out if I could fix some of the things that we now knew were broken. It's one thing to know you're not well. It's another thing to go to a doctor and say, here's what you have. Now, have you ever had one of those moments where you just feel kind of sick? You're like, I don't know what it is, but I feel something coming on. It's kind of unsettling because you're like, I don't know if it's a doctor.

it's pneumonia, could be a cold. I don't know. That's kind of what it feels like when you get real good help. Like when you go, I went to a rehab and I went to a counseling place. And to be able to have someone dial this in, I was able to tell Laura, like, you know, the rest of my life, I'll earn her trust back. It's everyday thing. But if you'll give me a chance, I'd like to show him proof. My words mean nothing. They still matter. I still need to say, I'm sorry. I still need to say that these five things. And I realize my words have no weight, none.

my decisions took the weight out of my words. And if you'll give me a chance to give them depth and meaning again, I will prove to you that God can change anybody's life. And so she gave me a chance to do that. And she graded me in segments. It was like people get a wrong idea about what that can look like. And my wife was never like, it's okay, I forgive you. She didn't forgive me really verbally for two and a half years.

But we had a plan and there would be some check marks and some road marks about how she felt about my life and and over time you string those together and you have um what we have now which is like the best second marriage i could ever want you know we just stopped trying to make the first one work it did not go well it ended and we started a second marriage and you know we're doing it different this time and it feels really good so it's uh the impact on them highlighted some tough things about the church culture you know we for my wife to be you know abandoned like she was and for my kids to, you know, have to go through the hurt they did. Probably didn't have to happen like that.

There are some churches that do it different now because of that, and that's cool. But, yeah, we have a Christian community sometimes that can run from people who need you the most, when you need them the most. And I'm grateful that it wasn't totally the case with me. You know, we had some people that did stick around and help us out, and that's why I'm sitting here today. Wow. That's so encouraging. I was so encouraged when you said that you said when I got caught, it was a chance for me.

to get honest. And I know like when I reflect on my own life, like there are so many times that I'm like where I feel like if I get caught, I'm in too deep. Right. Like I got to keep digging and digging and digging. And I feel like that's just the honest train of thought. And I'm so encouraged that that's your first reaction. Like it's just the chance for me to cut like get the clean slate.

And I'm also so encouraged by you not even trying to fix the tiny details. Like you're just letting people throw shots. It's at you and your family. And you're just like, yeah, I did it. Now it's time for me to heal and time for me and my family to heal. Well, you can't defend and heal at the same time. It doesn't work. So if you ever find yourself in a position where it's like, what's the bigger priority?

Is it me coming out and doing an interview right away to make sure everybody knows who else was wrong and everybody who's lying about me? Let me make sure everybody knows about them. Or is the priority to fix my life? What matters more? My healing or my reputation? Well, my reputation was gone, and I did that. And I wasn't going to fix it by, like, pointing out a liar.

And so I just, by the grace of God, Bryce, was able to just freaking harness that. I am shutting it down. I am shutting all. This whole world is done to me. They can write movies. They can make documentaries. People can do their weird little bloggy things that they do. They can make, do your thing.

I've got business to handle. And it's my life. It's my relationship with Jesus, and it is to save my family, and everything else can burn. And that's exactly the approach we took. And some days were easier than others to do that. It wasn't like this easy road, but by and large, we were really able to really able to hold on to that frame. And it, you know, it helped us heal. Wow.

I want to talk about, like, just redemption, like the just redemption from sin, because I feel like if when people are in that place of it's come to light and they I even do this with myself like I beat myself up so much

and I can't get out of my own head sometimes like I'm my own worst enemy and I show myself no grace yeah why do you think that is I think I put a pressure on myself. Like I'm,

I feel like sometimes like if I, like I'm 21, you know, like I'm just a kid. But I feel like so many people are looking at me and there's like swords pointing at me. And I'm like, I'm just 21. I'm just trying to learn. You know what I mean? Yeah.

How do you learn to sit in God's grace when when something comes to light like that how are you able to sit in that and not let shame and condemnation creep in because I think that's such a hard I feel like so I mean I struggle with that so much

I'll go to my brothers my friends my roommates and be like hey you know I messed up here I messed up here and this area of my life and even after I tell them and they come around me and show me that love and grace I'll be alone in my room and I can't show myself the same grace that they're extending me. And it's like I can't get,

I can't get past that sometimes, you know? Yeah. Unfortunately, and sometimes it's good to remember as Christians, like, don't forget the guy that we serve was murdered for being perfect. It's like, it's always a good perspective piece. Like, oh yeah, because we have this vision. Like we're preaching the good news. We're helping people.

We're doing good. Serving God. Why do some people hate us? Oh, yeah. Jesus was murdered without. cause that's our call so it's going to happen and when it comes to grace the way that you just set up how you feel about yourself i think i relate to all of it bro i was so good at giving grace to other people and teaching other people about grace but it was just me and myself and my sin and my

weakness and my life in jesus i was bad at making that connection and i think a lot of people struggle with this so it's probably why god has a spotlight on you because you can help people find a better way. Like I think, when you think about grace, why would it be, why would it be hard for somebody to forgive themselves and move on? So let's just say you had a bad night last night and you hate it. And you've prayed, you've asked God to forgive you, and you get up and try to live, why would it be hard?

What are you kicking around? Just genuinely asking, and I'll be able to maybe point to some of it, but like walk me through what the hang-ups are. right so you have a bad night you go through that thing again you fall on your face you've repented you've changed your mind about it done what god said to do and you still struggle with that hangs over your head i think a lot of people um feel like that so for you what do you think it might be yeah i think like the one of the main things i struggle with is like the people like particularly my family like my parents man my parents and my brother they know how to push my buttons like you know

what I mean. They know how to push my buttons. And people always say like, oh, I, you know, I love how gracious you are to people when you talk to them in the street. You're so kind. You're so awesome to them. And that's what people will say. And then I'll go home and they just push that button. You know, they push it. And I get frustrated or angry, upset, or I feel like that they're not listening to me. And this, this, and that, blah, blah. And something that God has been using me to do lately is be the bridge for my family and and men my and like just be like a like a stronghold for my family and I feel like when I do that I'm not that person for them and then and then on the back side of that from the perspective of other people they say oh look at how awesome and kind you are to people yeah

and I'm like I can't even be gracious to my own family right now right and I'm not going to put the excuse that they know how to push my butt it's like I'm not going to label that and so I'll go home and even it could be to like I just I just got back it's been maybe five days from being home and the night before I left like my mom and I got frustrated at my mom yeah because I felt like she wasn't listening to me and I still think about it yeah man thank you for being vulnerable I think all I'm hearing a very human story right now so all I heard you say was your human being like if you look at it from a one person perspective, it's like, so let me get this straight. Even the way you framed it, like, and I can't

even give grace to like, what if that's not true? What if you're learning how to give grace? And sometimes when it comes to families, it's the hardest thing to navigate out of everything and you're doing a really good job as you learn. Is that equally true? I would agree. Yeah. One of those thoughts is resourceful. I can't even give grace to my family. I'm crappy. Or I'm learning as I go and I'm aware that family can be really tricky and I cannot wait to watch God leave me through this and figure it out. Both these things are true. You've got to choose which one is going to be true for you today. And I think when it comes to grace right off the bat, I always know where somebody's at quickly with how they respond to their own sin. I've been a pastor for a long time. So you see it all.

And I can always tell people who really have a different revelation of Jesus because they're very cognizant of what they do right and wrong, but it's the posture. The posture is I'm already in. I like using the words for and from. Like, do you pray for God's approval or do you pray from it? Are you doing good so that God will love you more? Or are you doing good because he already loves you so much you can't change it? Are you going to reach people so that God will be happy with you? Or are you going to reach people because God already reached you?

The posture is so different. So even with grace, it's like, okay, I've fallen on my face. What would be the fear? Like, did God change his mind about you? because of your sin? Yeah, I think that would be the number one fear, almost like he would be tired of me, like I just keep screwing up.

Right. And so for someone who has theological depth at a young age, your brain will be fighting you on that right away because you know that can't be true because that wouldn't be the same God that saved you. So the very same grace that accepts you as the broken messes that we are,

does this suddenly shift now that we're on this side of salvation? This would make any sense. but that's the way you think with the way Christians live. So we are so ready to come to Jesus with all of our baggage at first. Oh, God loves me as I am. It's almost like when we get saved, now we're on a tryout. Why are we trying to get it together now? It's like, man, God saved me, but man, I've been a Christian for three years.

Shouldn't I be over some of this stuff? Oh, okay, let me get this straight. So God accepted you as you were at the cross. But now that you're in, hey, time to shape up. Come on, man. Like clock is ticking. You got about two more fails before you are off the cross. Christian team. That's not from heaven. And that's the furthest thing from Jesus. That's not how he led. That's

not how he lived. And that's not what we have evidence of. So how could a whole generation be stricken with bad grace theology that makes you feel worse every day? That's how you know it's not from heaven. Like when it's a godly conviction to get right, there isn't condemnation in it. It's a conviction to say, thank God I'm going to change. Like I had a disagreement with my wife. and we've learned how to frame it. This is this morning, like a couple hours ago. Let's frame this correctly. What a great opportunity to get to know you better.

I don't love my response earlier this morning, so I'm sorry for what I said. I could use a different phrase. Man, thank God we're here. It's a frame. It's completely different rather than we're going backwards. We're never going to get this right. Now God gave me all this second opportunity,

and I'm messing it up. but like people really think like that. I have been blessed with correct teaching early about what grace is. I've never, there are days, yeah, we all struggle with feeling condemned. But for you or anybody watching that constantly feels that there's a fundamental thing that you get to go look at and explore and find freedom in. Because if you are saved and God has forgiven you and called you and equipped you, if you're spending a lot of time feeling bad about yourself, something's wrong and you are in line

for some beautiful freedom. Because the first thing the gospel should do is change your life. Yours, mine. So that means everything I'm trying to get other people to do, I have to do it here first. So if I'm going to speak kindly, hey, man, you should speak kindly to yourself. Well, it's got to start here first. We forget about us a lot and we think that's noble. Christianity is not about you.

It's absolutely about you. Are you kidding me? God saved you. So it's about you. So what are you doing here first? So for me, it's like, I want to wake up in the morning and say, hey, good to see you, man. of God you are saved equipped forgiven positive healthy healing hopeful you're going to have a great day god is with you you're doing better than you think you are Ephesians 320 matters for you Carl in the

mirror every day is a new day his mercies are new every morning how on earth am i going to go tell somebody else that if i skip me well it doesn't make any sense it weakens what i'm actually saying So I've had to relearn that in this chapter of my life, and I will never unlearn it because that's everything. So when you feel unkind to yourself, you immediately know this is not from heaven. And you can hear some weird preacher online right now if you want telling you should feel like that. They don't know God's grace. They don't know it. So you've just got to be careful on this day and age that you don't plug into the wrong matrix.

Because before you know it, you've watched an algorithm fill with people who don't know what they're talking about. And now you've inherited that. man, maybe I should feel harder and harsher on myself. If I was really a Christian, I'd feel the condom, like, what are we talking about? It's the good news for a reason. So I like the idea of you handling your struggles with more grace first. Yeah. It's not like God's like, hey, guys, you see Bryce down there?

He's doing it again. I thought we had like a legion of angels that were supposed to surround him. How could he be doing? It's, I think the posture of heaven when we struggle is one of, this is going to be a beautiful thing to grow through. And we have biblical evidence of that. That's how God operates. So you will never see anybody go through a trial, you know,

and not have an opportunity for God to redeem it. So what does healthy, what does like healthy grace and accountability look like then, I guess, when you're navigating through problems? Like, how do you have a healthy, like, okay, there's a problem. Yeah. I need to hit this on the head. Yes. But also, be kind to yourself.

Yeah. Exactly that. That's the process. So I have an issue. Let's say I have, let's take something that's common. Someone has a pornography habit and addiction. So the first thing you do is say, thank God, I'm equipped to get through this and not let this steal any of my joy or any of my peace. I immediately need to involve somebody else.

And accountability is wildly overrated if the person lies to themselves. Accountability is only as good as I'm honest. So I can meet with you every morning, Like I'm accountable. I had pure thoughts last night. Haven't looked at my computer. But I'm lying to myself. This is a waste of time. Right.

I've already been honest with myself. I've already been honest with God. So now I can sit across from you and say, all right, Bryce, here's the truth. You know, this week had some huge misses in this area. And here's what I'm going to do about it. What do you see? How can you help me? Let's go with this plan.

It's a plan of attack. It's not a plan of surrender. And I think there's a lot to that. So for me, if you find something in your life, I immediately flip it. So if someone's like, I really struggle with negative thoughts, okay, cool. From this second on, let's think about how beautiful our mind is and how much power God's given us to renew our mind.

Let's never think of it like that again. I struggle with bad thoughts. Okay, well, that entire strain of thinking will be defeated just like that. You'll be defeated. You'll be, you know, somebody's kind of down a lot, but if you immediately switch it and go, I have the power, Bryce, to think clear. And that's what I'm going to fight for.

Here's how I'm going to do it. Negative thoughts. even get in a sentence. They didn't even get in your paragraph. So it's a lot of, I think, real, the essence of our faith is here. We look at kind of the actions of it and kind of what happens outside, and that's important. But Jesus was always looking at people's brains. Yeah. Always. And that's even the essence of salvation is a brain move. Whoa. Repent. That's a brain, that's a brain decision. Romans 12, renew your mind. That's a brain decision. This is before helping people. This is before helping the needies before evangelism.

Renew your mind. Do not be conformed to the patterns of this world. Renew your mind. There's no action here. This is all thinking correctly. So there's so much power in that and so much freedom that if you can think right, you can be right. And when you're

being right, you do right. There's a lot of people try to fix the doing and they never get around to the being. And that's why it's hollow Christian work if it's not really who you are. Right. Well, that's super encouraging me. Thank you. You should be encouraged, bro, because you are doing an amazing job.

Like, to be able to infiltrate this world, this TikTok insanity that I don't even fully get. And to be somebody who's bold about your faith, bro, I hope you're proud of your. Oh, my gosh. Oh, man. That's a demon. Demon. Well, not for nothing. What was the part of this conversation that was interrupted by that blower?

Is it like? Yeah. Wow. Straight encouragement to you. That's not by chance. I'll bet you there's a feat. So that's how you know. Okay, there's like a, there's an avenue of your heart that needs encouragement from heaven and from the right people.

And if you get that right, you're going to be a problem. So even in this offhand moment, just taking one second just to put the spotlight on you and how great you. doing and a random lawnblower invade your house and your dog has a spats like yeah sometimes i mean i'm not super spooky but i'm always looking around going was that uh no i think that uh that is a failed attempt and we're going to flip it and make it a actually that confirms part of your calling is to be encouraged and to encourage other people wow yeah dang thank you that's that is encouraging um Thank you. This question means a lot to me that I'm about to ask.

We can close with this one. And I don't take dating advice from anyone that isn't married. I'm really encouraged by your marriage. And I just want to learn how to be a better boyfriend. I'm 21. I've been dating an amazing girl for almost a year. She challenges me, encourages me, helps me grow. How can I?

continue to lead her well how can I be a better leader any any advice across the board about dating because I feel like the Bible does it it's like you're either single or married and I'm like this awful advice being like a young young adult like trying to navigate yeah yeah though I like I mean there is a strain of thought that says basically if the Bible's not super clear on something it's probably because there's ample evidence around it so it's almost like the implication is like you should be able to date effectively if you're doing these seven things that God's already pointed out. And yeah, it's confusing. So one suggestion or submission I would make to you is to maybe rethink I can only take advice from a certain type of person,

period. Just maybe kick that around a little bit because the older you get, and this is funny, bro, about life. When you're younger, you do have particular people that you listen to. But the older you get, it's like, are you winning at all? Can I steal your idea? It's like that old adage where when you're younger, you see somebody that has the same outfit on. It's like, man, I hate that guy. But when you're older, you're like, hey, friends for life. What a great choice? You know, like, what changed?

It's your age. So I would say, keep your mind open for any truth that impacts your life in a positive way. So if it's somebody who, because if that's, if you have like a gatekeeping mentality of like, if you're not married, I can't listen to you. Although I think it's super wise to listen to married people the most. I also find really high value sometimes in messages that come from messengers I might not get it. And sometimes that's more about me than them. So just as a principle in life, I like to maybe put a common set of a period there because I mainly take advice from people who are married for these seven reasons.

But I'm so open and humble that, hey, this freaking random dude over here on this alleyway in Van Nuys has one good thought. I'm so desperate to grow. I'll take it. So I think when it comes to dating, I'll give you what I think is the most important advice for any young man. How much work are you spending? How much time are you spending on making yourself better? Because if you're healthy, your relationship will always reflect it. So sometimes we'll skip over ourselves again.

I've got to make my relationship better. I've got to be a better boyfriend. Sure, maybe. And you tell me what kind of Bryce is a dangerous problem to have. the guy who is really secure, overflowing with joy, disciplined, filled with grace, and that guy walks out of his house. What kind of boyfriend would he be? Probably the best boyfriend of the plane.

Of all time. Conversely, you wake up, brush your teeth, you take a shower, you go outside, you go buy flowers for her, and you go work on the seven things that you're not great at, and you're trying to read her love languages, trying to make sure you understand her, and who's that guy? Well, okay, probably a good guy, but the first one sounds very appealing to me.

So even with my daughters, when they're dating, I'm always having them check that guy's self-care routine. I don't care about the other stuff. I don't care about it. He's being handsome. I don't care if he's funny. I don't care if he's cool. Is he open to therapy?

Does he have someone he confides in? Is he vulnerable with his weaknesses? And although that can seem a little bit, mature. I understand everybody's age is different, but I do believe the call that I see God doing is trying to get people to mature faster. So it's not shocking to me. I'm sitting across from a 21-year-old guy who has depth beyond your years. But I think with your girlfriend, anybody you're dating, first question to ask is, am I helping myself? Because if I can't lead myself, how on earth am I going to try to help lead another person? So once you get that rhythm, then you can just, you know, the overflow of who you are,

going to make you a really compelling person to date. And if it doesn't go the distance, you walk away with two healthy people. That's how you know somebody was working on themselves. And when you see people have relational breakdowns and they're shattered for months after, it's typically because they've had sex, firstly, and they haven't understood the deep consequences of what that can mean physically. And then somebody wasn't healthy. So now the breakup was just hard. Like the most beautiful testament to a Christian relationship is when people have deep love, deep feelings. They don't decide to go on a future chapter together, but they both look at each other and say, you made me better. Yes, there was some heartbreak and I'm sad, but the impact you had

on me was I became a better person. And I think if that's your goal as a boyfriend, you're either going to find the woman of your dreams and get married, or you're going to help somebody down the road that you don't know invest in this beautiful person that God did not entrust to you. That's a beautiful place to be. And I think I so I look at you and just go bad for you to spend a lot of time watering your own soul. I think it makes relationships better. And there's some cool things you can do in a relationship. But the first foundational block is how are you? If you love yourself, very, very easy to love somebody else. But when I talk to young men that are very insecure and they hate themselves and they have hidden habits and I see him date, I'm like, what do you think you're going to produce for

this girl? You don't even love yourself. You don't even know that. that God's forgiven you, but yet you're gonna, you know, they become controlling, mean, manipulative, abusive at times, domineering, and that's all the projection of who they are. So anytime, like I just tell my daughter is like, we just stay away from guys like that because we know right away they haven't got the memo that how they treat themselves is how they're going to treat you. So if you see a guy who sleeps in all the time and he has no discipline and he's cool, but he doesn't go to class, okay, cool, what does that say about him? Don't make a judgment. make an observation. And that's how you start to see who's who. And you see this other guy,

he might not be, have the coolest outfit on, but he's early to every class. He's always kind of got that bouncy, weird joy. And he always does what he says. And I'll take my chances with the guy doesn't have cool pants over the guy who looks so cool, but he's kind of not all there when it comes to the mental awareness lights. Yeah, I think that's what I'm looking for. So you keep watering your soul, my brother. and you're going to be an unstoppable force. Thank you. That's the best advice I'll probably receive from anyone across the board.

Give me dating advice. That's super encouraging. Thanks for coming on. It is my honor. It is my absolute honor. And I'm going to keep praying that God light your way up. It makes it so bright that you will never fear missing it because that's what's in your future, bro.

You're going to do things that even shock you. and I'll be able to say, yeah, I sat down on that guy's couch in Van Nuys. I knew them before you knew them. You know, you're going to have that kind of life where people are going to want to be around you, but it's an honor, man. So keep doing what you're doing. And you've got friends in Tulsa, Oklahoma, if you need them. Thank you.

Yeah. So thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Guys, go check out Carl's podcast, Lights on. It has been encouraging me. I've been listening to quite a few episodes, and I've been so encouraged. I mean, it's him and his wife, and they are just, just breaking down everything across the board,

their life inviting you into vulnerability. And I believe that being invited into like vulnerability shows, is able to help transform other people's lives. So I've been super encouraged by lights on. And guys, go watch lights on. And January 19th, we've got our first live podcast here in Los Angeles. Go to Jesus in the street.org slash tickets and get your tickets. Love you guys.

See you on the next episode.