The Bryce Crawford Podcast - Howie Mandel Challenges Me on God, Homosexuality & Truth

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

Howie Mandel Challenges Me on God, Homosexuality & Truth

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I can have incredibly dark, violent, horrific thoughts that go into my head. And then it just keeps repeating and keeps repeating. My wife finally. about 30 years ago was about to give up on me after 20 years of marriage. I make everybody's life around me held. I self-medicated with pot and alcohol. Wow. And to virtually try to make myself unconscious as much as possible.

Has anyone ever asked to pray for you? No, people tell me they've prayed for me. Can I pray for you? Uh... Hey, before we dive in, if these videos have meant anything to you, if they've helped your faith or brought you closer to God in any way, make sure you're actually subscribed. A lot of people watch every single week and still haven't hit that button.

It only takes two seconds and it helps us reach more people with the gospel. Also, I have an announcement I've been waiting to make and I'm really excited about this one. Open Heaven. Our biggest live podcast event to date is happening November 8th at the Pavilion at Toyota Music Factory in Irving, Texas. Right outside of Dallas, it's going to be a powerful live podcast experience centered around faith, purpose, real conversations, and connection alongside live worship throughout the night. And I'm pumped to share who's going to be leading worship with us. It's Aaron Tedeschi, an upper room worship. This night is going to be a night that I'm not going to forget,

and you're not going to forget either. Tickets are on sale right now at bricecrawford.org slash tour or click the link in the description below to grab your seats. And please, the only way to buy us through this official site, I recommend not trusting any random resellers. I genuinely believe that this is going to be a night. People care with them for a long time, and I'd love to see you there. All right, let's get into this episode. Do you believe in God?

Well, you know, I'm Jewish, and we, and I'm not, I don't practice. I think I do practice in my own way. I believe in a power greater than us, and I have respect in a power. And different, you know, in Hebrew, it's I don't know, or whatever, in your religion, it's Jesus or you've given it, you know, an image. And I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm wrong or I'm right. I believe that we need, we need as human beings to have something to hang on to, to have a purpose, to have, that gives us a direction.

So I believe, you know, and there are many, many religions in the world. And I respect humanity. And I respect that humanity has a power greater than them. And we all need that path to follow and that purpose for getting up each and every day. And if you want or need or have. or believe in something that is giving you that purpose and millions of others that purpose, then I believe in that. But it doesn't necessarily manifest in the same way as maybe you or other people believe.

But I don't believe this is it, if that's the question. Do you think that there can be multiple paths, right? I know we kind of talked about this that coexist. I believe, I believe, I don't know that there's multiple paths. paths, but I believe that there's multiple interpretations of the same path. So do you think that each religion is a different interpretation of the same path? I believe within the same religion, there's multiple interpretations of the same path. I believe that there are, I know a lot of,

like denominations. Pardon me? Like denominations. Well, I believe that there are people that are Christian that don't believe in everything you believe in and don't act exactly like you do. I believe humanity that we're all like snowflop. lakes, we're all a little bit different and unique in our own. I believe that you could find people, I don't know what church you belong to, or if you even

belong to a church. I believe within your church, words are interpreted differently. And what somebody else feels their need, however you interpret what you're going to do or what you need to do can be interpreted differently because we are not the same. your brain, your hearing, your interpretation is not the same. Yeah, like I think, I think, like the term we would use as hermeneutics. Like, that's the word that we use to describe the way that we interpret the Bible. And so if it was, like, I'll give you two examples of issues.

One is we believe in this thing called the Trinity. So we believe in one God, but three persons that are co-equal, co-earnal among the Trinity. So when you view the Holy Spirit, some people may say, the Holy Spirit doesn't heal people today supernaturally. Whereas I would say, I think people can get healed supernaturally today by Jesus. And so like that distinction right there, in my opinion, doesn't change the game of those two Christians. Like one guy isn't Christian because he believes one or the other. Whereas if we stand back and then we take a moral issue, we take a moral issue, for example, on, you know, morality, good and evil, whatever, maybe sexuality, things like that,

or Jesus core primary values, is Jesus God, is the Trinity real, is the Bible without error, without flaw, things like that. When you start interpreting that, that's where I would say someone might not be a Christian determined on what they say. But I would imagine that I could find a Christian that, you know, that, that you may not believe is a true Christian because of their interpretation, but they say they're a Christian. Yeah, but my level of judgment on someone of Christian, how do I say this? Like, okay, when the Bible says do not judge, that would be like me telling you, hey, stop doing this issue, but I'm doing that issue behind closed doors.

Well, according to your Bible, I'm not supposed to be on America's Got Talent. Wait, why is that? Do not judge. Well, come on. Oh, I just thought. Come on. Sorry. Am I thinking it too?

But you go to what I'm saying, right? Like, I, my standard of judgment isn't going to be, I don't know. But here's the point. The point that I'm making is, even if it's do not judge, just as human beings, your perception, and it's, see, I believe that 99% of dissent. decisions, actions, and whatever life produces is based on perception over reality. And reality being, you know, what did I just do? What did I just do? You just clapped.

Did I? Maybe he doesn't think I clapped because it didn't applaud. Maybe he thinks I just put my hands together really quickly. I mean, that's maybe it's how you perceive it. You perceive it and maybe millions of people perceive that as a clap, but somebody perceives it as, oh, he, I think he killed a fly. I think he, you know, what do you perceive is happening when you, it's it, how are you interpreting what you see, what you hear,

what you read, what somebody has told you, it's really fascinating to me. And as a 70-year-old, it is really, and having gone through life, is I can't tell you how many times people have been in the exact same room. I'm not even talking about religion. I'm talking about just humanity, have been in the exact same room, kind of experiencing the same thing,

and there were five, six different stories about what happened. Yeah, and so I think when it comes, okay, the clapping thing, right? If it was to determine whether you clap, put your hands together or killed a fly, I would look at more than just the moment, right? So if it was literally to kill a fly, then there would be evidence of a bug killed, maybe a stain on your hand. Maybe you'd then grab a, you know what I mean?

So there's going to be more than just a moment to make a judgment on. And I think that's where I think that that scenario differs because as a Christian, when I have a view on, I'll take a polarizing example like homosexuality. Like I think homosexuality is wrong according to my perception of not just scripture. According to your perception. Yes, on scripture. The word is but stop. But hold on, not just scripture, though, because someone's going to read the Bible and they're going to take verses out of context. So how do I know?

Right. So then the question is, how do I know that the context that I'm reading out of is the right way to read the context? It's right for you. And, well, see, that's where I think it differs. Because when it comes to morality issues, right? Because now you're saying perception. Do you think that what, so let's go on this. Do you think that what Hitler did was wrong?

Absolutely. Well, what if I think what Hitler did was right? I think you're wrong. But you can't tell me that I'm. I can't tell you I'm wrong. You can't. I can't. I don't believe you can.

I just did. Because when saying, but that's the point is that when saying that people have different interpretations of scenarios, we're now saying that morality becomes subject. But you know, you're just saying the same thing as me clipping the, there are a lot of people. There are a lot of people, and I don't, I don't respect this view. But there are a lot of people that are living today, sadly, that don't believe that Hitler did something wrong. And I can't get in line with that. And I believe that they should be punished for that. But they believe it.

And that's what's fascinating to me. What's fascinating to me, I used to say, my in-laws are Holocaust survivors. And I'm very strongly pro-Jew, the Holocaust. There are people that deny that there was even a Holocaust. But I should say what's fascinating to me, the most fascinating, Because I do think part of the human condition is, you know, a mental depletion.

Some people have, you know, there was something wrong with Adolf Hitler. In my mind, there's absolutely no denying that there's something wrong with Adolf Hitler. What I find fascinating is the fact that he was able to get millions, millions of people to, to follow him. Not only follow him, think that that was the solution. People who were doctors, people who were educated,

people who are, you know, I'm friends with a lot of German people. I've been, you know, there's no difference between a German person, you and I. There isn't. So what was it about these teachings or this rhetoric that went out there

that was able to capture people so much so much so that an average person who wasn't in the army, who wasn't in the SS, were willing to point out that the neighbor was hiding a child in the basement and, you know, ratting on them so that that child would be taken and murdered. What is it? Why did society follow that? Because that was in the most extreme form a perception for their own. survival. That's how they needed to survive. That was the path they needed to take. He even named it the solution. Calculating route to avoid seeing poverty. Turn left to bypass the unhoused youth sleeping on the street.

Then keep right to skip by the lines of people waiting for food. Steer clear of the crowded shelter turning people away. Then take the next exit. Let's stop looking away and get in the way of rising poverty. Your donations help the United Way fight poverty in thousands of ways, like providing food, shelter, and crisis prevention. Donate today at United WayGT.org. Your first Spotify ad is just a few clicks away. Launch a campaign today in minutes with Spotify Ads Manager.

Yeah, so I believe that what he did was wrong as well. So what I'm getting at is because when you're talking about the perception thing and you're like, well, that's your perception. But when you get down to moral good and evil, if I were to sit here and say, well, I don't think mass murdering people is wrong. And you look at me and say, well, it absolutely is wrong. But then you say, well, there could be, I think my question really comes down to do you believe in absolute truth? Do you believe in murder? Do you believe murder is wrong? Well, do you believe in absolute truth?

Do you believe murder is wrong? Yes, I do. Okay. So do you believe in capital punishment? I do believe in capital punishment. Well, then that's a dichotomy. Why? Because you have a reason to murder them? Well, no, no. Well, the Bible. I don't buy them. I don't. I don't, thou shall not kill. Yeah, so killing is different than murder.

Val shall not kill. Do you believe in that commandment? Yes. Even if that, if that person did something horrible. Killing is different than murder, though. Murder is the intent to kill. Well, you intend to kill somebody that did something horrible. If they, here's what I do believe. If someone ran in here trying to kill us all right now, and I had a gun and I really, and I reached out and I shot him and I stopped him from killing all of us. Do you think that I should be killed?

Do you think that I should be punished for saving our lives? No. Stopping a shooter? Okay, so. But that's not the same thing. That's self-defense. That's a whole different scenario.

What I'm saying is they caught a guy who is a bank robber in the, in the, in the, uh, throws of his bank robbery. The gun went off and somebody died at the bank. And he gets charged with armed robbery and first degree murder.

In some states, he could be given the death penalty. So what we believe is Christians, so the capital punishment issue first, the Bible does talk about capital punishment. It says in scripture that someone was liable of capital punishment if they were caught in adultery. Now, the standard for catching someone in adultery so much so that they could be murdered for it was so high. Like there had to be multiple, multiple witnesses that all told the same story. and in adultery, it's typically just two people, right? So that typically never happened. Well, there's your perception.

But in, but this is what I'm getting at is the absolute truth thing. Like, do you believe in absolute truth? I believe in my truth and your truth. So then that's what I'm saying. If you believe in my truth and your truth, then you can't tell me if I think that what Hitler did was okay, which I don't, but if I did, you can't tell me that that's wrong. I can tell you, and this is how I speak. You asked me if I'm religious.

I believe 100% it was wrong. It's horrific, and it needed to be taken care of, and people need to be punished for it. If you don't, I will not agree with you. With that, if you didn't believe, and I know you do, but if you didn't believe that was bad, I would have less respect. I wouldn't respect you at all, and I wouldn't like you, nor would I want to spend any time with you. That being said, I understand that that's how people think, and I know that that is. is the milieu of humanity.

There are people that believe totally different things. Some of the things that they believe are unfathomable. I can't get on board. I can't respect it. I hate it. But that being said, it's part of humanity. Well, that's why I choose an extreme example like Hitler, because you and I can both sit here and go,

that was awful. Like, no one in their right mind could look at that scenario and go, yeah, it was okay that he did that. But that's what I'm saying, the point of your truth. But people do make a... They do make a case for it, which is wild. But if truth is really relative, and what I mean by that is subjective to the scenario, your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth,

then you can't hypothetically tell the person that believes what Hitler did was okay. You can't tell him that it's wrong because truth then is subjective. But why is that the same thing? Why are using that as an example to... Here's where we are on the exact same path. Different names, maybe even a different personal vision of what it is. But you believe in, you know, in Judaism we don't like to, we use different words for God. Yeah, I would call Jesus Adonai.

Okay. Yeah, because of the Trinity, right, like my view of the Trinity. I would call him. I get it. My point is that we're all in the same path where, and whatever. it takes you to, to, or me, to find my way there, I believe in a power. Maybe I'm using a different name than you. I believe in a power greater than us. Even if that power, it could be. I don't know. I just know it's there. I don't know. It could be science. You know, it could be some,

it could be science. But I believe that when something is greater than you and unexplainable, I believe that we need to respect it. And to know that there is something more or to feel like there's something more, allows you to, when you realize that this is not it, that gives you a purpose to follow a righteous path, you know, like to be, you can't do whatever you want and cross every line and every boundary and every law just because it would almost be easier to do that if you go, this is it, man, I don't give a shit. I'm not, you would use heaven. We don't use heaven, but I just, I believe this existence is much more than this.

Yeah, yeah. I believe that we are here. Our souls are here. This is a learning purpose. And the longer we exist in this realm and even realms above, we are learning and we are getting better. And we are getting closer to the, I'm using terms that I don't necessarily believe, but closer to the light. because I think we need imagery and names and just because of who we are and how we function, it's really hard to describe, understand, and pray to abstract.

Yeah, so I think that saying that I believe that there's a higher power, that there's a light, in my mind, that's like the first step. It's, okay, there's got to be something greater. But to say, I think we should respect it. I think we should respect whatever that power is and walk in a righteous path. I'm like, okay, well, what is righteousness if we don't even know what we're respecting? If it's just a power, because blanket stating a power, I think, is a great first step. But what is righteous?

Well, that's what I mean. It's like if it's just a power, that's why I believe in absolute truth, whereas my... But absolute truth is denying that anything, like, you can't be... Then you close your mind. And we are as human beings so gifted in the fact that we have the ability to learn, to change. You're the perfect example of that. If this is absolutely exactly the way it is, I would pursue saying this is the way I think it is, but you know, you show me another way.

Not that I'm open to it, but I will listen to it. And I will, so the word absolute truth kind of bothers me in the sense that as opposed to saying, this is what I believe is my truth. Because absolute seems like, I don't think there is an absolute truth. I think there is your truth, my truth, the world's truth. And hopefully we can find some compromise where we can all, because these absolute truths, for me are causing delineation and it's becoming very tribal

and you know that most of the negativity in our world and violence in our world is caused by these barriers of this is my truth, not your truth, so let's get rid of what I don't believe is the truth. Yeah, so I can understand what you're saying if we don't have,

it's like this carpet is, blue because somebody who created names for colors and described red as red, blue is blue, they put an absolute definitive that that is blue. Well, I'll argue with you. Well, what color do you think that is? Well, I actually don't know, but the point, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. No, I'm not trying to be funny.

I'm colorblind. Okay. So the way that colorblindness works is, do you know what color is? Do you know why you see that as blue? Why do I see that as blue? Because it's a reflection, or maybe I'm using the wrong word. There are like nine colors in the spectrum. I don't know if blue plays for this, but brown is like, is brown, orange, and green mixed together?

It reflects a refraction. I'm not a scientist. So does that look gray? But whatever my, no, I can see color. But I don't see them exactly the same as you do because of the lilt of, I don't know if it's my retina or. whatever, I don't see the same reflection. I'm not even allowed to get a pilot's license because I sometimes can't see red. It just looks brown or green.

It looks the same to me. So what I'm saying is the majority of people say that that's red, and it is red. But because it doesn't look red to me, am I wrong? Well, that's what I'm saying is you're still calling it red even though it doesn't look red to you. Because I'm communicating. That's my communication. But who has defined that as red? because universally, people excluding your retina issue

and having the colorblindness, people defined, someone defined red as red, blue is blue, orange is orange, brown is brown. And so universally, even for colorblind people, you're like, well, red looks brown to me. Well, how do you define that that red looks brown? Because you have an idea of what brown has maybe been described. I know what you're calling it, but I also know what brown is.

So I can say that when you have this shade of something, it looks different. I can't see purple because I'm, I'm, I'm blue-green colorblind. Gotcha. Okay, so I can't see purple. And that's maybe not the best example, but what I'm saying is through our experiences and through how we interpret it, you know, here's the absolute truth. There is no defining goodness.

Good is good. Good. You can't define my good as bad. Like pure goodness. Yeah. So like, okay, let's not. take colors, for example, that letter B and my name Bryce, like, that's a B. That's absolutely true that that's a B. Yeah. Because someone decided it was a B. And so even saying, like, even saying,

but what about somebody who doesn't speak English and can't read English? Well, that's what I'm saying. And maybe there's, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to know this, but there are languages that don't have sounds that we have. So that means nothing to them. But in, in, like, Hebrew, there's five words for the word love and the English language we have love, right? So there are depth of descriptions of love are different, that is in, that is completely different than saying, but it's not the absolute truth. It's not the absolute truth unless absolutely every human being, everybody in existence identifies it, knows it, sees it, and interprets it the same way. If you don't, it's not absolutely. That is a good majority of Americans, North Americans, English speaking people,

people who know English, people who have learned to read and have seen it, that's the their truth. So then let's take it, let's take it another step further than because even saying my truth is my truth and your truth is your truth, that is an absolute truth claim. When we say, when you say that, you know what I mean? Like you're saying my truth is my truth and your truth is your truth. You're putting... Well, you're saying an absolute truth. You're telling me that there isn't somebody that would say if he says this is his truth and he says this is his truth, that is proving there is no absolute truth. Well, that's what happens in court. That's what happens in court, you have a defendant and you have a prosecutor and they're fighting for what is actually true.

They both can't be true. No. No. They're fighting for without a shadow of a doubt. So when there is a shadow of a doubt and it's just 12 jury members of your peer, it's an interpretation. And how do they interpret the law? And they have to sit there and read the instructions to the jury. It's like, do you think OJ killed his wife? I do believe he killed his wife. Okay. Why was he? Why did it? Why did he get off? Because they didn't convince the jury. But that's what I'm saying. But that was that, but it doesn't matter what they did or didn't in court.

There was a truth behind it, but both of them are fighting for their side. And you think that in the, because there is an absolute truth. He either did or he didn't. Yes. And you don't know the absolute truth. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And I think that's what I'm fighting for right here is because I'm- Okay.

So I'll give you this. There probably is an absolute truth that exists, but you'll never, we will never know with the absolute truth. We will believe we know it. He will never know it. Well, I'm making the case that, like, as human beings, like, because people, there's going to be a Christian that thinks homosexuality is okay, whereas I don't think it's okay, where we differ on views and stuff like that, even though I believe that there is an absolute

truth. Because you have free will, you have the choice to either say Jesus is true or he isn't true or I believe in more than just Jesus or I believe in a lie. So God is being the most loving God he can be from the Christian perspective to give human beings the choice to... Quick pause. Gas, groceries, eating out. Even on the tightest budget, there's just no escaping them. But here's the part you can actually control. Earning cash back every single time you fill up, hit the grocery store, or go out to eat with the upside app. And our

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and I respect your beliefs. I'll tell you one belief that, you know, for you to say that homosexuality is wrong, I find so left field and out there. I really do. Because I think that there are, I really believe that, uh, and, and there might be an exception to the rule. There is no rule. I believe that this is a biological, genetically, I believe that this is not a choice.

And they, he or she or them, or whatever the pronoun is, this is who they are. And you need to respect, we need to respect who they are and make every human being with whatever whoever with whatever he or she is, whatever they believe in, whatever their gender is, whatever their sexuality is, cannot be demeaned and should never be anything less than what you are. Is it demean? Calculating route to avoid seeing poverty. Turn left to bypass the unhoused youth sleeping on the street.

Then keep right to skip by the lines of people waiting for food. steer clear of the crowded shelter turning people away, then take the next exit. Let's stop looking away and get in the way of rising poverty. Your donations help the United Way fight poverty in thousands of ways, like providing food, shelter, and crisis prevention. Donate today at United WayGT.org. Your first Spotify ad is just a few clicks away. Launch a campaign today in minutes with Spotify Ads Manager.

Meaning to tell someone the truth? your truth. I don't think it's wrong for somebody to be heterosexual. Homosexual. So let me ask you this question because you don't believe homosexuality is a choice.

I believe there are people that have made choices to have a same gender sexual experience. But I believe for the most part if somebody is homosexual, I believe you can be born and it's the natural.

I have so many homosexual friends that spent their entire childhood and growing up and even have been lost the relationship with their family. They fought it so hard to not do it. I know for a fact that this is, if they could choose, if they could have at a certain point, I think all the people that I know have accepted it and live with it and live very full, fulfilled, wonderful lives who are great human beings.

but I think if they had their choice, their life is harder because of it. And I don't think anybody would choose a harder path if they had the choice. Do you think someone can be born attracted to their little sister? Can be born attracted to their little sister. They don't have a choice

to be attracted to their little sister. I think that's probably unnatural. So why is that unnatural and not homosexuality? You know, for the same reason, I'll tell you why I feel that because I know that I personally, before I could even explain it, I personally was attracted to girls in my class

when I was a young boy. It wasn't anything. Nobody was talking about, you know, you have to have a girlfriend. I mean, when I was really young, when I was like seven or eight, I just liked the girl. I thought she was pretty.

I wanted to kiss the girl. I wanted to do that. And that came naturally. If somebody's your brother and sister, I don't think it's natural to be attracted to your, I do think there's something wrong with insult. So you think that there could be a choice? An incest?

But why in incest? Because it's a sexuality issue. No, it's not. Because that's a heterosexual choice for a brother to be. You can't, see, the fact that you're even labeling homosexuality and incest, and this is the problem with our society right now, and I'm not knocking. If somebody is homosexual, I believe that they're naturally, they probably are naturally homosexual. I don't think because you're a homosexual, you're incestuous or a pedophile.

No, no, no. I'm not calling homosexuals and incessual. That's not what I'm saying. But that's a different thing. That's not. I was taking a separate scenario because you said that you thought. But you said to your sister, being attracted to your sister is not like being heterosexual. Well, the point I was trying to make was that, you know, and look, here's the thing. Like, I would sit here and say, look, I'm not hardwired that way. Like, I would sit here and say that about myself. Like, I was hardwired to be attracted to women. I just didn't. I don't have that attraction. Man, I've never had that attraction. I've never had that temptation, okay? But if we say people don't have a choice, like they don't have a choice they're born gay or born straight or whatever, then are we going to say the same about someone that's born that's attracted to their sister? No.

So if it, because that then again is a section. I think that that is not. The person that's attracted to their sister is probably a mental health issue. The person that's attracted to a same-sex gender, it's just a genetic acceptable. same way that you don't think incest is natural, which I don't believe it's natural either. I think homosexuality isn't natural. I don't agree with you. But that is because, again, this stems from my biblical perspective that I believe God has an original design for mankind,

and I believe he designed male and female to come together under one covenant for one lifetime. So I think even separate from the Bible, physically, like, why is it that AIDS is more prominent in the homosexual community than it is the heterosexual community? why is that the case? You know, why are these things the case? Why do you think that's the case? Because they're putting things in certain places that it wasn't designed to go.

And if I am a man that is sexually attracted to a man and I'm having gay intercourse with a man, there's going to be a point where I can't hold in my poop 15, 20 years from now. So even from a natural standpoint, right? Like there's a natural side of it where I'm like, okay, I totally disagree with it. What you're saying?

With someone not being able to hold in their poop 15, 20 years from now? No, I just don't, I don't agree with the whole theory that it's, you're, I feel like you're classifying, I believe to feel an attraction to a sibling is a mental health problem. I do not think that being attracted to same-sex gender is a mental health problem. So I think that, well, okay, I didn't call homosexuality a mental health problem. But you're putting them in the same category. No, no, no. You're saying it's a sin to, it's a sin or it's a sin to. Yeah, but that doesn't

mean I think that someone is having a mental health struggle because they're struggling. I think that people are born into sin. And I think that that sin looks different for other people, right? I wasn't born having an attraction to men, but I was born having an attraction to women, and I let lust consume my life for such a long time. So I think that Christians do a poor job in addressing the homosexuality issue by making the gay community feel as lesser than moral value than heterosexual people because there's a whole lot more heterosexual sin that happens within the Christian space that's wrong than homosexual sin like I recognize that I understand that so why is there so much child abuse in the church I don't know because I think it's because there's broken

human beings that are sinful and flawed and it doesn't just you know someone doesn't wake up one day and go I'm going to go abuse a kid or the better example I can say is someone doesn't wake up and go I'm to go cheat on their wife, a pastor. They wake up, they go to the gym, they look at a woman lustfully, they feel guilty about it, but they don't say anything because they didn't do anything. They're like, I didn't do anything wrong. I just looked at someone lustfully. No one knows that I was looking at that woman that way. And they bury it in their heart, and they don't address it. And then it keeps going, going, and then it unfolds one day, and they do something that they didn't want to do. And they wonder how they got in that scenario. And it started out by looking at a woman lustfully. That's why Jesus says,

you never look at another woman lustfully. Well, I'm a human being. I'm sinful, and that's why I have to repent and bring things to the Lord and have self-control. So the days that, like, when I choose... So that's your tool, which is right, and that works for you. So the self-control aspect, right? I'm married, I'm attracted to my wife, I love my wife, so I use self-control as a tool to not look at women in certain things. In the same way, if I believe... Well, I can look at women and think this is like that she looks incredibly hot, and I could look at...

and have even seen, you know, people have shown me. I've seen porn, you know, I've seen. Wait, why are you grinning? Because it's good. But the point is. Wait, I actually want to ask you about that because I saw a video clip. But here, you can ask me about that. Yeah, I know what you're going to ask me.

But I've seen porn and everything. I've been with my wife for 48 years, married for 48 years. I have never cheated. I'm not just saying that because I'm on a podcast. I have never cheated. There's nobody I love more. I'm, you know, she's the best. wife, I feel like we got a real solid marriage and our kids are good human beings. And I think that

that's what people need to do and focus on. And whatever it takes to do that, if you need to, you know, look to the Lord, you know, to give yourself the strength or a lot of people do it because of their fear of being punished for sinful thoughts and we're human, then they could repent. And whatever that takes, whatever that exercises in repentance, they can do whatever they do. I do whatever I do. Go ahead. You were going to ask you about a video clip. Two-part question, you're married. Do you watch porn in your marriage?

No. But I saw a video clip of you talking about, you were talking to some girl, and you were talking about how you get hand jobs at massage parlors. That was a joke. That was a joke. Yeah. Okay. I was going to ask you about that.

Because if you, and even in the headlines, they were going, how he jokes. in most of the headlines. So the joke, the joke, for those that didn't hear the joke, the joke was, I said I went and got those. And after three years of going to the same woman, I said to her, when you're finished,

is there any way I could get a massage? And she looked at me like, get the hell out of here. So the joke is, and the person that I was talking to even said, well, aren't you supposed to, isn't the first part the happy ending? And I said at my age,

the happy ending is loosening up my shoulders and getting the crick out of my back. And, you know, people were appalled that I said that maybe in front of my daughter, who's 42 years old and adult and those, was not allowed to come and see my live stand up until she was 18 years old because I thought it was inappropriate for a young child to see, and especially her father. Now I use language in front of her.

It's in the name of comedy. I believe in free speech. I believe that I can cross a line. And with my speech, I'm a, you know, we are so respectful of each other as father and daughter and anybody. I know the time and the place, but we live in a world right now where maybe, maybe people will take a clip of this. Sure. Episode, take out the part where I said it was a joke and said how he says it was okay to do what he was doing.

And I may get in trouble again. And you know what? That's the, that's the foibles of being in this business and being on media. Yeah, I mean, they could clip me saying that, you know, even though I said I think that what Hiller did was wrong, they could clip that first part. Be like, Bryce said that he thinks what Hiller did was okay, right? So I understand.

I guess, like, and again, I love laughing. I have a good sense of humor. We've been laughing. You make me laugh. I love being around. But what makes you, like, make a joke like that when it comes to your marriage and it's like, you know. Because it's a joke.

But like, what, in my mind, I would, me personally. Uh-huh. And this may be just like my personal conviction on, you know, joking or whatever. Uh-huh. I wouldn't make a joke about that because then it has to deal with my wife. So then don't. And I would. I know my wife's okay with it.

If my wife said to me, that makes me uncomfortable. Then you would stop. I would never do it. And a big part of it is I talk to my wife a lot. My wife's been there from the beginning of my career. I wanted to quit my career. She's the one that made me keep going. But let me tell you something.

I think that 99.9% of humanity has zero sense of humor. And that doesn't mean they can't identify humor. they just don't have a sense of it. And the sense is to find the humor, a joke is finding the humor where there isn't humor. There's no joke unless what you're talking about is sinful, wrong, or hurtful. That's where all comedy comes from. If you look at the two masks of tragedy and comedy,

the smile and the frown, if you go to the circus and you laugh with a kid and you laugh at a clown falling down, what are you laughing at? You're laughing at another. His failure. He fell. He may even hurt himself.

Why are you laughing because he falls down? Yeah. But he falls down. If you tell somebody a joke, if two guys walk into a bar, if they just sit and have a drink, there's no joke. If one of them is humiliated or something bad happens, then it's funny. Funny only has to come from why is the jokes or things that I tell that because it's inappropriate. Because I know it's inappropriate. If I didn't think it was inappropriate, it's not funny.

It's funny because it's inappropriate. But do you think that things can be funny without it being inappropriate? Like, when you say inappropriate, are you- Tell me one funny thing that's funny without being inappropriate, and I'll tell you what the inappropriate is. Well, I guess what I was about to ask is, like, when you say inappropriate, are you encompassing everything from, you know, sexual to a clown falling to- or-

Absolutely. So inappropriate is- If somebody makes a funny face, you're laughing at them because they look ugly. You're laughing at them. So you use that as a blanket term because when I hear the word inappropriate, I think of just like, like, you know, sexual crude. You got your own book of rules. I have different rules. You know, listen, I agree that I didn't, I know, sexual and crude is something that I'm really aware of.

I just told you my child, none of, I have three children, none of the, and my grandkids have not come. They will never come and see a show until they are adult because I am not my, my, My stand-up and my, even what I do on my podcast is not what I do on AGT, deal or no deal or anything else. I'm a responsible broadcaster. I know who the audience is. It just so happens that we now live in an age where everybody has access to everything and every kind of audience. But as a parent, I believe that we need to have more control over what our children are seeing. and, you know, like whether they're allowed to have a phone or be on YouTube or be, I think we have,

I don't know that they could take in that information and process it or if it's even healthy. But for me to be making what people deem as an inappropriate joke in front of my 42-year-old daughter is ridiculous. Well, you know, again, it is, and what I respect about you is you hold to the fact that it's, you know, your truth is your truth, my truth is my truth. So you're, you are living that. You know what I mean? I do live it. There's people that will say that and then they don't, they don't live it. I do a podcast with my daughter. This whole place that we're in is built by my son. My son's here. I have really good relationships with my kids, their kids, the people that they're married to. My wife is my biggest supporter. I can't, I can't go a day without her knowledge and, and, you know, I, I,

I start every morning, like, what should I do and how should I do it? And she gives me that. She's my strength. She's my love. And you know what? We know that. And I take solace like you do in God. I take solace in what feels very godly to me is the people I love and the people who love me who are around me and know the absolute truth.

They know it only matters to me that. Terry, who is my wife, knows that I would, and knows, doesn't think, knows absolutely that I would never cheat, knows that my love is absolute. For my kids who sit beside me, even when you hear those words, know that I absolutely respect them, adore them, and know that what I'm saying is a kind of a meaningless, you know, comedy is art, everything, living is art. I believe that we're all, you're an amazing artist. You really are.

The fact that your art is your creativity and ability to spread. What I believe is goodness and giving somebody strength to even move on. So many people were at the end, at their wits end like you were at the Waffle House, and they want an answer and they want a thought and they want that. But there's so many people that believe what you believe, exactly the way you believe, and can't articulate that. and can't and don't have the charisma, the talent to present that, and to engage somebody else so much so that they're willing to even change their path. So to that end, I believe it's not the same thing.

My art form is comedy. That's at the base of everything, it's comedy. And I believe that, you know, the pendulum swung a couple of years ago where people were getting canceled. I still get real big kickback for what you mentioned. Yeah, I think the cancel culture is so stupid. Well, it is. But especially for in America where we should have freedom of speech, I get that you could be, you know, like insulted by something or, you know, thrown, you know,

you don't want your young kids to hear some of the things that I'm saying or you're offended by something offensive is okay. But by the same token, you could look at a painting and go, I would never put that in a wall in my house. I would never, I don't even, it's ugly. It would ruin my house if I put it in there. But you can't tell that painter not to paint that picture. And you can't tell the painter not to use that color like you're telling me not to use a word or a reference or whatever it is. I did nothing, you know, I don't, I want everybody around me, not only me.

I want to be an example for how I want you. Do on to others as you would have them do unto you. You know, I don't want anybody to be any less than I can be. They don't have to be more, but I don't want to, and then I choose to not be around anybody that I think would do less. You talked about like, you know, your son building the studio, relationship with the wife, family, all that stuff, comedy, you do this, you've done dealer, you know, deal or no deal,

all the stuff you're doing, AGTE, I've also heard you talk about that you think about dying a lot. Yeah. Like, you think about death? Do you still think about death? Still, I don't know if I'm going to survive this whole podcast. Yeah. I'm 70. You know, like, I mean, this is the, you don't know. You don't know.

The only thing that I believe in and the only thing that I try to be the best at and the only thing that I, all my energy is toward, is now. And I don't mean this in the next 10 minutes. I mean this second. What do you think happens when we die? In your perspective. I believe in the scientific explanation that energy cannot be destroyed, it can only change forms. And I had no belief system whatsoever until I had experiences after my father died. I was very close to him.

I believe that our energy is still existing. And if you want to call the place, and I have no problem with this, if you want to call the place where the energy exists heaven, then let's call it heaven. So you go to heaven. But what does it look like? I don't know, but I believe there is an existence beyond this. And I also believe, for those that believe in hell, I believe that that hell already exists in your own world. Do you create your own hell? In this life?

In all for eternity. And I believe if you do, I cannot, in my belief, Adolf Hitler, when he died, is at another, is at a perspective where he is aware or the soul is aware of what he has done, and you can't be comfortable with that. and that is your own private little hell. And you want to, I don't know. I don't know what the answer is, but I believe that this isn't all there is.

Well, I was going to bring up Hitler again because I think you and I. The theme of the podcast is Hitler. And you talk to a Jew, what are you going to talk about? Okay. So, you know, like, I think you and I would both go, we think that dude deserves some justice. I think he's getting it. So when you said, like, I believe that, you know,

Energy not be created or destroyed, you would have a problem with Hitler being in the same final destination as you in the afterlife. See, you're giving it a place. I believe the final destination already exists. Whatever's going on in your own mind, in your head, we're here, buddy. This is it. You're on your path. Nobody's in, nobody's really sharing a room with you.

And he's in help. So he lived in hell. Again, whatever makes it easier for you to, and for many people to kind of describe, I don't have any walls or gates or entrance fees. I don't know what it is. I just believe in humanity and I believe this is such a, you know, and I maybe came to that when I had my first child. I really, instead of the things that I read about and know about and are in the Bible, I watched creation. I watched it.

I watched a soul come in. This soul. There's a human being who seems to be, even though they don't, I think when we're born, we don't speak the language. I think it's like a foreigner who just landed here and doesn't speak a word. But I think they're fully formed. I think that who you are, right, you were you and you were on this path when you were an hour old. You know, that this, this path, this, we're destined.

There is a destiny. And we just got to stay within the confines of whatever this destiny. And we could veer out. We have the power to veer out. And we'll pay for that. And I'm like, where do we get that purpose, that destiny? Because I absolutely as a Christian, I believe that. That's where you get yours.

gives me my purpose and destiny. So, you know, obviously the biblical perspective is heaven and hell. Hell is absence of God. Heaven is presence of God. Right. And there's descriptions of it. Right. Little descriptions about heaven. Little descriptions about hell. But hell, in my opinion from the Christian's perspective, is a justice system and a choice where, you know, God deals with sin. If we put faith and trust in Jesus Christ, our sins are forgiven. If we reject that, We have to pay for our sin with our own life, so it's justice. So Hitler, if he did not make a commitment to Christ, which I don't think you did, he would be in hell. Now, it's hard to believe it.

Here's where I would argue with you. If an hour before he died, he made a commitment to Christ, would he be, should he and would he be forgiven? If he made a sincere heart commitment to Jesus but faith and trust in him, he would be in heaven. He would be redeemed. because that is the beautiful and I understand I understand I'm right there with you on how that is hard to wrap

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It'll be easy for me. I got no hair. I will not wrap my head around that. He is just, he is hell. Well, I have a mop. I have a mopped around. The end earrings. So, you know, it's, but I also think it's a choice because the people that go to hell, they are actively choosing that they don't want Jesus.

They want whatever they want. I don't think they're thinking of Jesus. Not that they don't want it. They're not thinking about Jesus. Well, some people aren't because they don't believe in him. Because their path, their path was absolute, and a lot of people is, is absolute power. They're incredibly short-sighted in thinking, this is it. this is it. So in this moment, I need, and this is not how I think, but in this moment, I need to get

as much power, is much money, as much, I just got to just take over. It's all about me. Yeah. And those are the people that are willing to kill, steal, and take. That sounds like that's the exact description Satan's given in the Bible. Well, again, you've given a name to whatever. I'm saying the same. same things. We got different, it's like we're speaking, we're talking about the same thing in two different languages. But here's, I think that, you know, again, right, I believe in absolute truth. And because I believe in Jesus, I don't believe that God is trying to do mental gymnastics with humanity on who he actually is, a definitive definition of who God is, his character,

scripture, all these things. I don't think he's trying to do mental gymnastics. Well, you're doing more mental gymnastics than I am. Well, I think actually there's more mental gymnastics with you because if you just believe that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it just moves on. And there's no dedicated place that maybe hell is already described. I don't need that dedicated. In my perspective, though, if it's just created or destroyed, there's no definition. Right now, you, Hitler, Mother Teresa, you know, me, from your perspective, we all go into

the fertilizer pit. And the fertilizer pit. Well, you're saying a fertilizer pit. No, we all just continue to exist. and we continue to exist in our hell, we continue to exist in our heaven. But what if for Hitler he had a heaven? What if what he was doing was heaven? Did he come off like a happy guy to you?

Well, that's the thing about deception. He showed up at his own party screaming. That's a happy guy. Oh my goodness. He thought what he was doing is right. He thought what he was doing this right. So he might have been. I know when I'm happy and a bunch of people come to see me, I don't scream at this.

He might have been in his own. own heaven. He might have been in his own heaven. So how do you know that what? I don't think he was his heaven. His heaven was again. He was trying to win, win, win. Control, control, control. Everything that he saw is demonic and wrong. He just wanted to kill and destroy. That's his heaven and that's his truth. And that's what I'm saying is when it comes down to heaven. I think joy, I think joy is pretty recognizable. And I'm not seeing any joy in any picture, any recording, any writing of Hitler. I do see joy. But what if he found joy in that? What if a murderer finds joy in murdering people?

Charles Manson found joy in the crap that he was doing. You know, other people? You think he was joyful? I mean, look at the interviews he was doing. I did look at the interviews. I don't think he was a happy guy. Did you see that new documentary that they just put out? I mean, he literally, first time going into jail,

booked his name as a.k.a. Jesus Christ, aka. God. He's manipulating people. He wanted his own world. Maybe deep down, if he was really honest with himself, we could both recognize that guy wasn't happy. He'll tell you he wasn't happy. But there are some people in this world, the Jeffrey Dahmer's, the Charles Mansons, those kinds of people that find legitimate joy in killing, murder, stuff like that.

I don't think they're finding joy. And that's like absolute truth. I don't think there's joy. I think that they live in this problematic quagmire and they try to solve it by starting a race war, by doing drugs, by self-medicating. he was not a happy guy, and he wasn't finding joy, and there wasn't a moment of joy in Charles Manson's life. There's no joy, but he didn't need, he wasn't trying to obtain joy. We can recognize it, and you and I would both say, well, there's no joy.

The question that I keep posing, and it is all steaming back to kind of like the beginning of it, is every human being, for the most part, for the most part, can universally agree what Hitler did was wrong, Charles Manson did what's wrong, murder's wrong, evil. Pretty standard. There's like a moral code that I would say most of the world has written on their heart. Even though there's language barriers, there's distance barriers, they're all miserable people. Where does that come from?

Because if it is your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth, then we can't tell Hitler if he literally says, I find joy in what I'm doing. If he said that and if he really believed that, we can't tell him that that's wrong for him finding joy if it's his truth. I don't think he was chasing joy. I don't think those people are chasing joy. I think if you did a deep dive into any of those people,

there is social mental health issues, and these people were fighting and living in a dark place from the moment their existence is even recorded. And they didn't have good childhoods. They didn't have good family life. There was no happiness. So a lot of it is revenge and retaliation. And, you know, if you listen to all these guys, including Hitler and Charles Manson, all they did,

I have a friend that sat and smoked pot with Charles Manson. And he used to regale everybody with how this world is... He was literally trying to start a race war. Right, but he wasn't trying to, like, we'll make it a happier place. This is what we need to do. They're all against us. are all, you know, it wasn't, these people weren't chasing joy or goodness. I think we can all agree what's good.

And I think that they don't, they were not going for good. They were trying to combat what they thought was bad, but they weren't going for good. But how can we, right? And I think even if we take your scenario of you saying right now, your life, what you've created for yourself, your career and everything, according to your perspective, you've created your heaven. No, no, there's always more. I'm not, I live in the hell.

I have mental health problems. I live in hell. I just want, I know what good is. But when you die? I want, I want, what I try for, and it kills me every day because we want. What I try for is if anybody spends a moment with me, if you happen to be in the same room with me, I want you to not feel any less than if you didn't spend. And I want, it would be great to, more.

And that's if I can lend a hand and help you. If I can make you smile and make you laugh, if I could walk away and learn something or you learn something or we, it's got to be, we got to build. It just can't be a bad feeling. And to be honest with you, as because of this chosen path that I have of being a comedian, I can't tell you the horror that I live in every single day that maybe I've offended somebody. maybe I've hurt somebody's feelings. Maybe I wasn't fair to somebody because just by virtue of what I do and how many people I come in contact with,

even if they come up and they say hi and they want to take a picture, my wife goes crazy because I walk away and I go, did I walk away too fast? Did I not spend enough time with them? Or a kid came up behind me and said hi. And I think they were holding their phone, but they didn't say they wanted to take a picture. And I didn't want to say, do you want to take a picture

because I didn't want them to say no. I'm in turmoil 24-7. And I do that same stuff, too. Like the whole picture thing, the interactions. Like, I get in my head too. So what I'm saying is, all I'm saying is I'm just trying to be good. And every time I've been around you, every time I've gotten to come here, because I've been here three times in the last two weeks, and it's amazing.

And you make everyone feel loved and seen and you take care of them. Like, you do a magnificent job. Not everybody. I don't love him. This is one of your team. Why are you pointing at the only not white person? in here. There's...

And there's the clip. There's four people in this room. And there's the clip. There's four people in this room and you chose my Asian videographer, Chris Cam. He was wearing a Canadian flag. I thought it was safe. Okay.

Well, he was wearing a Canadian. Who's in a term... You told me you're not even Canadian. But let's say you are creating... Where are you from? What are you? I'm from here. But you said he's Asian.

Cambodian. Yeah. Yeah. And so like you say in your... in your own mind. I like your food. That you... Now you made me feel bad. Now, see, you just added more guilt on to me.

Well, I had to point it out. Yeah. No, I pointed it out. You pointed out what I pointed out. Well, why are you calling him and it? I said, I had to point it out what you did. And you said, no, I pointed it out, and you pointed back to him. That is a man.

His name is Chris Kim. He has a soul. He's real. Sorry, Chris. Yeah, this is going to kill me. Now I'm going to lose. But you see what I'm saying? I think that, like, I think that like...

Restaurant is a Vietnamese restaurant. If you, if you looked at your, he just said he's Cambodian, you just said Vietnamese restaurant. He's Cambodian. Is that different? I don't know. It's different. It's different. Is it Vietnamese food?

Was Cambodian food? Do you know where Vietnamese food comes from? Vietnam. Do you know where Cambodian food comes from? Cambodian. Can we clip this part out? You don't have to. I'm an idiot, so I'm stupid.

And I'll repent. My own way. But you see what I'm saying? But here's the thing. So I feel like I've just done something wrong, unintentionally wrong, but I feel like I need to apologize to you. Are you hurt? Were you offended?

I didn't mean to offend you. See? That's my, that's my path. So right now, but I'm just saying going to your death perspective, right? Now I'm going to die? From a net positive perspective, I think you would look at your life. Okay, if I die, I'm going to ask to be cremated and I want to. my ashes spread all over Cambodia.

Great. Not Vietnam. Cambodia. I'm going to make that clear. We can make that happen. We can make that happen. Just know. All right.

You know why we can make that happen? I don't know why. Because someone in the room with us is from Cambodia and we can make that happen. Oh, so you're assuming because he's got Cambodian ancestors that he has the power to send my ashes to his, he was born here. Where'd you born here? He goes to Cambodia all the time. You go to Cambodia all the time? Went there one time.

You're lying. Why don't you repent? No, he went there once. Hold on. And you assume that if I die, he could. That's horrible of you. Just because a guy has Cambodian parents to assume that he's traveling back. He's commuting to this job is not right.

Chris, I'm sorry. Well, see, we both have to apologize to Chris. Sorry, Chris. I'm good, right? Am I good? He's not good. All right. Where are my ashes going?

Where do you live in this? Do you live here? Why did you? North Hollywood. I want my ashes to be spread all over North Hollywood by a young, lovely Cambodian. I wasn't talking about you. I want you to find a lovely young Cambodian man to spread my ashes all over. Why do you assume it's you?

That's so, so, so, better. Because he is very lovely. He's a lovely man? He's very lovely. Can I just say something? I think you're coming off a little homosexual. All right, all right, all right, all right. You are crazy.

But you see, do you see kind of like the rabbit hole I'm making when it comes to like... Oh, it's a rabbit hole. It's a rabbit hole. If I could pull a bunny out of my ass right now, I would love to. If Hitler really believed what he did was... Stop with Hitler already! We've moved to Cambodia! We have to do it.

We have to do it because if what Hitler believed what he did was joyous, he didn't. That's your words. He wasn't joyous. He was trying to make an empire. He wasn't being joyous. Well, some people might... You're using words, I don't believe. Some people might...

Praise energy. That's for you. A gift. Thank you. You're very welcome. Praise energy. You have your own mug. You have merch.

Yeah, merch. We have merch. We have hats, shirts. We even have a mascot. Click. Click. Everybody. Click.

What? Isn't there a place to click on this thing? Drinkpraise.com is what they say. No, but on this, this is YouTube. Am I on YouTube right now? Yeah. Really? Yeah.

Am I watching? You're watching. And you know what? Hey, I'm talking to me. I'm talking to me. Hi, howie. There's someone behind you, and he looks exactly like you. Really?

Yes. Oh, my God. It's me. Two heads are better than one. Okay, all right. All right. You made it uncomfortable. Well, here's the difference.

I was looking up at... You took the heat away from the Cambodian slur. I was looking up at Walter White. No, that's me. Okay. You're not pulled out. Can you pull out further? There you go.

It's a mannequin of you. It's a mannequin of me with no pants on. Because it usually wears these pants, but I wanted to wear these pants for the interview. When we finish the interview, I take these pants off and I give him back to him. Is that real? Is that serious? Yes. Oh, great.

I have one actual final question for you. That's the final question? You mean there's a question after, when are you going to die? Yeah, there is. Okay. You've mentioned OCD a few times, like, throughout the interview. Can you just, like, let me in on what that's been like for you? The horror show.

People always say, you know, it's become a vernacular because people will come up to you and go, you know, I'm a little OCD too. I like everything in order. I like a neat, I clean my stuff. OCD, obsessive, compulsive disorder is a grossly undiagnosed issue that is really prevalent in our society. And the best way to describe it is it's kind of like a skipping record. So you can have, you know, I'll make it easy. Like if I think that there's something on my hand or I shook a,

hand and one of your hands and it was clammy and I go, hey, I'm going to go wash my hands. Intellectually, I know that I can just wash my hands and then walk away, but I'll go, I didn't get it all, and then I'll go back to the sink and I'll wash it more. And then I go, I didn't really get it. And then I'll scald it and I'll go back. And I could be stuck in that loop of trying to wash the claminess off my hands for hours, hours. Wow.

And the fight against the intellectually aware, being intellectually aware that this is crazy and not being able to stop is hard. Or I can have incredibly dark, violent, horrific thoughts that go into my head. And you might have one of those, but then it goes through or you forget it. And then it just keeps repeating and keeps repeating. And I can't, you just want to, you need to escape. you know, or I'm forced to do something ritualistic, you know, like even if you have to tap something three times before you walk in the room, that's not mine.

But if you had to do it and God forbid you missed it, I mean, the overwhelming sensation that you're going to die because you didn't tap it three times, along with knowing that that's ridiculous and not being able to stop that thought and convention. That's why you're obsessed with that thought. And then you have a compulsion to do something to help. that thought and as strong as i say our marriage was my wife finally about 30 years ago was about to

give up on me after 20 years of marriage and said we can't do this because i you know i i i make everybody's life around me um hell that was hell and uh because it made them wash i i i cordoned off pieces of the house so that i wouldn't if somebody coughed i wouldn't be in the in the airflow. So she finally made me go to a therapist and a psychiatrist and I got diagnosed and lo and behold, I still have it. But I have incredibly good coping skills. So I can be out in public and I can function and be productive. I'm also medicated, you know, and that also helps me. COVID almost killed me, you know, because I sell on top of whatever I was taking professionally or prescribed. I self-medicated with pot and alcohol.

And to virtually try to make myself unconscious as much as possible. Just so you didn't have to think about it. Escape. You can't escape what's going on in your own mind. Can I ask you maybe more personal question about marriage? I'm actually genuinely curious. And I'm asking it's like out of a respectful way. Like when it comes to your relationship, like I know you don't typically shake hands.

Like do you hold hands with your wife? Yeah. So what is the line for you? Like even, because I was even thinking, I've been thinking about this. Well, we have three children. Yes. I've, you know, I've got a good, strong libido. Okay.

What were you asking? Well, just in general. Like, I did, I was thinking. I touch her, and I touch, I'm, I'm comfortable at home and I'm comfortable around her. My fear is, I could probably shake your hand now. I won't. But I'm always afraid of being triggered. And if I'm triggered and go into this, this, you know, there's no out of that, my little hellish rabbit hole.

So, but we have a very, I'm, I like to, I like to have sex with my children's mother. Is that nice to say? Yeah, I mean, not in front of the children. Well, yeah, obviously, sex is a beautiful gift in the confines of marriage. That's right. You want me to call one of my kids in and tell them? I would prefer not to. Then I won't.

Then I won't. Then I won't. Thank you. I was just trying to give you another clip, but it doesn't matter. Okay, you said that you would potentially shake my hand, but you wouldn't because you didn't want to go through the, like, rabbit hole? Like for someone for you that makes it comfortable, is it time, is it trust, is it? If I'm sitting in my house and I, or me and my wife are, you know, we're just together. Like me, me, like a me.

I don't want to go out and hold your hand. I don't want to hold you, are you asking me to hold your hand? I don't want to hold your hand. Okay. I don't, why are you getting? You want to explore, right? No. You're flirting.

I think you are. I think this is taking a weird turn. I think, I just feel like you're flirting. Can I hold your hand? Would you do this? And you know what, Howie? And that's your truth. You're a funny guy.

But like getting to shake my hand, like would that take time, trust? Is it like a thing that was like for your wife? Like you were able to get to that point because you were able to... I live with her. I know where she is. I know if she's sick. Before marriage, like, was it because you trusted her enough to see you in that place of if you had that trigger you would trust.

I feel like holding my wife's hand is like holding my own hand. You know, I don't feel that we're one. That's biblical. The two become one. Right. So you were closer to being a Christian than you think, Howie. Okay. And I also, you know what's weird after this whole thing?

What? I feel like I'm Cambodian. I feel like I've accepted who's the president of Cambodia. You don't know. I think that's crazy of you to assume that he would know because he was born in Boston. But his parents. Do you speak Cambodian?

It's called Kamai. The language over there is Kamai. Oh, big shit. And you can go Cambodian. You don't. The language is Kamai. And you just ask him as him as he speaks Cambodia. I know.

I know. You're assuming I don't know that. I was testing Chris. Testing him. Hey, I want to say this again to you because I genuinely mean it. Wait. I do have one more question for you,

but I do want to say this, and I got one more question for you. You don't have to tell you, you know, if you just do what you do without telling me what you're going to do, that's okay. I feel like this is that

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I genuinely love hanging out with you. Come and hang out all the time, buddy. Thank you. I'm really a fan. I really am a fan. Oh, thank you. I really am. I think you're incredibly smart and inspiring and good for humanity.

Thank you. I really do. Okay, I ask every guess this question. Okay, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being absolutely certain, one being not certain at all, how confident are you that you would go to heaven. Well, one, I don't, I don't believe there's a heaven. I believe there'll, there'll be something after this is broken, but I don't, I don't call it heaven. Okay, let me rephrase the question, add a nuance to it. If the Christian perspective of heaven and hell was real,

I don't, I don't have that same belief system. If it is true. Do I think I'm good? Well, is that how you got? I'll go someplace in the middle. I, I'm not, I feel like I keep getting better. Six or seven? I think I keep getting better and better and better. And I'm so far from, if I had a definition for heaven, it's like perfection, you know, and just pure goodness. And I think I am so far from pure goodness, I don't deserve to be wherever that sends me. But I believe that I'm a lot better than I was last week and a lot better than I was.

last week and a lot better than I was yesterday and a lot better than I am. And I hope to be better and better and better each day until this breaks. And then I don't know. I hope that's, the journey continues. Yeah, I would describe, I would say the Bible describes heaven as perfection as well. Well, then I'm nowhere, then I'm at one because I'm nowhere. If heaven is perfection, I am nowhere near you. I just think no human is near perfection. And me, and me either. No human is perfect. I agree. But as a Christian, we believe that Christians can be a 10, not out of ego, but because it's not about what we can do to get to heaven. It's about what Jesus did for us. That is the difference. Whereas, like, there is no amount of good that I could do to build

the latter. I'm putting more responsibility on me than, but there's nothing wrong with putting you. You are. And, like, so, and I think the, the most encouraging thing to me is, like, I, I've, I've always just been a stickler for rules in general, like even before. I was a Christian. I was always a rule follower. Like if someone tells me to do something, I'll do it. I'm not. I just peed and I left a seat up. Why is that funny? Shame on you. Was it because you were combing your hair in the girls' bathroom before you came back here? And you left to see my hair. My pants were on. You can't comb your hair. Okay. All right. I see what you did there. Took a minute. Yeah, it took a minute. Sorry. I'm not there. This is not a place you want to be. But you,

You want to be where you are. You got your youth. You got a brand new. You're in a perfect place, buddy. Well, you know, like, I, like, we don't think that what we can do can get us to heaven. That's just not. The beauty of the Christian thing is, like, I told you. I live more in the moment than you do.

Well, I live in the moment. Like, this right now means more. No, but you're trying to, you're heading towards something. I don't even have a goal. I don't want a goal. A goal means I'm not there. My goal is this second. my goal, I don't want to think about the future.

And maybe it's because I'm 70, you know, but I don't want to think about anything but this, but this. I even have, like, the people that work here with me, I say, don't tell me what I'm doing tomorrow. I don't even look at the schedule. You call me in the morning, you tell me what's happening and get up,

unless you need me to okay something like, is it okay, you know, can Bryce come in on, I love that kid, I want to talk to him. So yes. And then they schedule it. I don't want to know my schedule. I find that overwhelming. I don't want to know what I'm doing.

I know what I'm doing in a couple hours. I'm going to a result show of AGT. That's it. I don't know what I'm doing tonight. I don't know where I'm having dinner. My wife won't tell me the plan. I don't want to know anything. And I really practice now.

And like I would say for me, my eternity is secure, but I am living in the moment because my perspective is if I believe Jesus is the truth, if I believe he is the only way, and I believe that pure joy, love, satisfaction, security, significance, meaning, purpose, desire,

everything comes from him. And I look at you and I respect you and I love you, but I believe that about Jesus. This moment matters more to me right now because I care about you so much that I want you to hopefully experience that.

with Jesus as well. And so that's where that overflow of like the... The fact that you're caring about me that much, I think, is gay. The little... The little... The little... I was not expecting to say that. I called me off guard.

So you know how you said... That's what they're saying. That's what they... Do you know... You know you're thinking that. You know you're thinking that. And I think that's natural. And I think there's no sin in that.

Do you know that... But you know I'm married and I'm heterosexual. So you got no shot with me, buddy. Do you know that doing, when you said earlier, doing on to others as you would want them to do to you, the love your neighbor as yourself. Yeah. You know what comes right before that in the Bible? Spooning? Love.

Oh. Love God with your whole heart. Okay. I love you as myself. Okay. Because I've experienced God's love for me. Thank you. It's getting uncomfortable.

Thank you for. I love you. And I love Cambodia. Howie, I made an oopsie over here. What? I got to, I got to put that. He made an oopsie. I made an oopsie.

Oopsie. Somebody. I fix it. I fix it. But you know, you can pull it up. No, from it. Angle it up. Yeah.

Thank you. Oh, maybe. There we go. Sorry for, I'm so sorry. I mean, oopsie. You give all these incredibly encouraging words on how to live life, on how to, how to live. You really are. You're brilliant.

And you encourage people. And then the microphone goes a little haywire. And you go, I'm in. Oopsie. Kind of takes a lot of that away. I want to do something for you to close. You've been closing for the last 10 minutes. Well, that's what every pastor does.

They tell you that they're almost done and they're almost done. They're almost done. This is the first podcast I've ever had to take a pee break on. Never. Never. I'm not going to lie. I've had to pee so bad for the last 45 minutes. Don't tell me you did, though, because I like that chair.

You do? I might let a little slip. Oh. Can I ask you this question? That's a question. This is leading... Just do it. Don't tell me what you're going to do.

I don't want to hear any more about what you're going to surprise me. I'm the guy that lives in the now, and every question you ask is telling me what you're going to do later. Has anyone ever asked to pray for you? No. Really? Ask to pray for me? Yeah. People tell me they prayed for me.

But no one's ever asked to pray for you in the moment. Personally asked me to my face? You're about to, right? Yeah. How did I know? How did I know? No. You might be a prophet. It could also be a liability. I think you are that. I think you are a liability. Can I pray for you? Go ahead. That's okay? I would love it. I'm honored. Thank you. Yeah. Jesus, thank you so much for

God, thank you for Howie and thank you for his life and thank you for who he is. Thank you that he's just, yeah, God, I just love him so much. Would you bless him? Would you keep him? Lord, would you reveal yourself to him? Jesus, I pray that you reveal to him that you are the truth because I believe that you're the truth. And I think that everything that how he talks about purpose, meaning desire, everything comes from you. God, I want him to experience that. So, Lord, if that means sending godly men his way and revealing yourself to him in dreams, whatever it may be, would you do that? Lord, I love you. We love you. Bless Howie and Jesus. Jesus name. Amen. Thank you.