The Bugle - 50 Minutes of Bias

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Please perceive this show to be full of good jokes. Can you tell the difference between evidence and perception? Why? Well it's a focus on the latest target of the Tory culture wars - Andy. Plus, India build a massive controversial religious building, which, if you choose, can be perceived as a non story.Send thoughts and questions for Andy at [e-mail]. Click follow to make sure you get every episode and please drop us a nice review or rating wherever you choose.PLUS: Become the owner of an exclusive episode of The Bugle, on 12 inch vinyl! It's your last chance to get your name on the artwork. Become a premium member NOW! https://www.thebuglepodcast.com/donateThis episode was presented and written by:Andy ZaltzmanTiff StevensonAnuvab PalAnd produced by Chris Skinner and Laura Turner Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA January 2024 in this case. That does mean that we are approaching a sixth of a trillion months since the universe was launched. A lot of advanced publicity for it at the time as far as we can make out. Well then bang! Big one too, short sharpened trap and bits of bang splatting out through the newly launched universe. Setting in train of events that led directly to me and E. Zoltzman sitting in a shed in south London telling you this. So I hope that puts what you're about to hear in some kind of cosmic context stretching back 13 trillion years. This is issue 4289 of the Bugle Audio Newspaper for this most visual of universes. And joining me today, I'm delighted to have what? Veterans of this podcast, Tiffany Stevenson and Anu Vapao. Welcome back both of you. Hello. Do you have a particular favourite part of the last 13 billion years?

I mean, I'm putting you on the spot a bit with that. I think like being born. Oh, OK. And then it just sort of got gradually worse. All right. This is what babies don't realise when they cry, is that they were, you know, this is as good as it's ever going to get. And about how's, how are you, how's India?

Well, it's good. It's good. Just very quickly, I think my favourite part of the history of the world is the loss of the woolly mammoths. I've been thinking about them a lot. Big loss there, I think. Interesting weekend tip. I had a very British weekend, Andy Tiff.

For whatever reason, this weekend, I'm in Mumbai, where I live. And this weekend, we had, in terms of performances, on Friday, we had Jimmy Carr, the comedian, doing several shows in Mumbai. Then the musicians sting and ke, the band from Sussex, performed back to back. And I'm wondering if India is becoming like best exotic Marigold hotel thing, not just for retirees, but also for British entertainers.

What a odd collection of, like, I didn't expect you to say all of those names together. Yeah, and we also had Herbie Hancock was 84. 84. Yeah. And he was visiting. So I don't know what's going on. I think is it very cold in the West? Oh, it's possible. Oh, yeah, it's absolutely freezing. I mean, Herbie Hancock and Jimmy Carr are two people that you don't expect to hear in the same sentence, to be honest. And Mumbai. Those three words. Well, I mean, I guess anything to distract India from the trauma of the cricket match

that they lost. And I hope you appreciate Buglers. We are recording this the day after England had one of the greatest ever victories in the history of cricket, which obviously, you know, is universally accepted as the greatest thing ever invented. So it's basically one of the greatest days in the history of human civilization, also West Indies beating Australia. And I have calmed down enough in just what? Since that game finished, what about 30 hours until we start recording to be able to speak to you,

hopefully in a comprehensible manner, but my heart is still thrumming on the inside. We will touch on this a little bit more later in the show. We are recording on the 29th of January, 2024, which is apparently officially Camudgen's day. Yeah. What should I say? Yeah. Well, personally, I don't see why that's worth celebrating.

In fact, I think the whole thing's ridiculous. What has been Comudgins Day need to be celebrated with its own special day, makes its own look it's in some way unusual rather than being the fundamental state of human existence. Why can't people just accept that and stop for a cheer everyone up with special days for things? I mean, really. So anyway, I do hope you celebrate Comud up with special days for things. I mean, really. So anyway, I do hope you celebrate Camudgen's Day in whatever way you see fit buglers. But to mark Camudgen's Day, we have a quiz question for you.

What is the origin of the word Camudgen? It's shrouded in mystery. The options are, A, the Camudgen was a now extinct bird related to the pigeon. Etymologically, it's a shortening of covered mud pigeon. It's renowned as the most bad-tempered bird in the history of avian nature, and was prone to deliberately flap its wings in people's faces and guano fact on their picnics before being hunted to extinction in the cheerful late 17th century. Or was it from Camudgenley, a former aristocratic seat in Derbyshire, in fact, the sixth lord of Camudgenley,

was described by 17th century dyrist Samuel Peeps as a man of unceasingly unbreakable misery who possessed within his face more means of expressing gloom than the rest of the nation combined. He invented the curtain, apparently, hence the curl of curtain, so he wouldn't accidentally see anyone smiling outside his house and was famously the only member of parliament to vote in favour of banning, winking, somersaults and laughter in a vote in 1666. He was reputed to have invented the phrases, oh what now, is this a bucket of

shit I see before me and thank you for the offer but I'd rather grate my own pronger off of bait whilst bathing in vinegar. Or was it from Khurmud Jin in Arabian mythology the Khurmud Jin was a foul tempered Jin or Jeanne spirit from the ancient city of Khurmud that would emerge from a magic lamp, stropely offer three wishes and then refuse to grant any of them. Or was it D, none of the above, no one really knows. Do send your answers to yourself by the nearest available carrier mud pigeon. Can I just say, is that a bucket of shit before me? This was the review of my last play at the time. I put a lot of work into that dramatic work and the critic had that to say. Lady McShitts. I think they were a support act for Keen, weren't they?

Oh, this was a very exciting moment for me. A couple of nights ago, I went to my first ever punk gig at the age of 49. And one of the joys of having teenage children is there, expanding my musical knowledge. We went to see some punk bands in Camden. It was great. So my not particularly wild Tumbridge Well Space teenage years did not have a lot of punk music involved. Did you wear a studded waistcoat? No, I didn't. I wore, I think I was by some distance. Did you wear a fleece? Tell me you wore a fleece. Well, I was wearing quite a fleece jumper. I think I was by an almost record margin, the squarist person at the gig. So, which is a status I'm comfortable with. Anyway,

as always, a section of the bugle is going straight in the bin. This week, a Cars in Crisis section, where now for cars, the world is asking, because with fossil fuels being persona non grata amongst the increasingly influential Armageddon skeptic community, we ask, after so-called progress and convenience, foisted the car upon us instead of the much-loved horse and cart. Are we now set to let the tires down on the age of the automobile? Just because a few thousand self-proclaimed, qualified scientists claim that driving to the shops can make a penguin cry. We also investigate with electric,

so-called cars increasingly popular, but not really cars because they don't make you cough if you leave the engine running and suck on the exhaust pipe. Are real cars going the way of the woolly mammoth? Mentioned by Anivab just now, as well as the Roman Toga and Free Exorcisms, hunted to extinction by the woke. Also, we look at the new Heptacycle, could the seven-wheeled, pedal-powered vehicle, just waiting for a celebrity to launch it into the commercial stratosphere, replace all cars within five years? No. But so what?

Let's say yes. Is that the kind of world you want to live in? And also, with research showing that the average width of cars is increasing car measuring weird boffins in Britain have claimed that the renowned quadru-wheelier vehicle has been ballooning by an estimated five millimeters a year from an average car width of 170 centimeters on average in 2001 to more than 180 centimeters now. Does this mean that all car parks will have to be expanded by, in which case, is global warming basically going to save the car park?

Automobilologists have attributed the car growth growth to a combination of factors, including a lack of car motivation. Cars having been roundly criticized for destroying the planet when actually it's their drivers who are more responsible, as well as increased traffic meaning that cars don't have to go as fast, so they don't need to keep in trim. Also, probably the woke as well, sorry I wrote this also to double up in my column in the Daily Telegraph. Concerns have been raised that the increased width of cars has made journeys more predictable and because it's harder to overtake it comes down more and more to strategy and reliability and that's not a real sport from now I'm just getting confused but I can tell you that if current trends continue in the increase

increasing width of cars in just 364,000 years cars will be 22 miles wide and you'll be able to cross the English Channel to France Just by parking at Dover and shuffling from the driver's seat to the passenger's seat. And then, how will we stop the boats? That is a question that politicians are ignoring. Anyway, that section is in the bin. Top story this week, me. I'm sort of the top story this week. I've been in the news tangentially or

the news quiz, which I host on radio for has been in the news because the Conservative Party transport minister Hugh Merriman, a minister in the government, took some time out from his hectic schedule of failing to rectify the infinite number of problems with public transport in the UK to complain that the news quiz is biased against the conservative government. This got a reasonable amount of media traction here. He was asked by Sky News, Cape Early, for example, as a BBC bias, and lays it straight in on the news quiz. For 10 minutes, he said, all I heard was just a dire tribe against conservatives. Um, I mean, ten minutes. I mean, the thing is, and I guess this is the slight problem for Hugh

Merriman here, the Transport Minister, is that the news quiz is a news-based comedy show about the news, not dissimilar, I guess, in some ways to the bugle but on the BBC. And the question arises, what makes more news happen, the government or people who are not the government? And that is at the root of the issue. And the issue for Maryman is that his party has been the government now for 13 years and eight months in which time they have done lots of things, and as I said, things that have been done are often relevant for satirical purposes on a show like the news quiz. The obvious solution is for the conservatives to stop being in government and Fair Play to Merriman and his colleagues

they seem to be pulling out all the stops to achieve that and help us bring some much needed balance back to the show. So I don't know if this made the news in India, Anu Vabh. I mean I imagine the that, you know, I mean, the BBC is in a bit of trouble with the Modi government as well, as it tends to be with quite a lot of governments, it seems, but I mean, it's, I mean, pretty much brought the nation to an absolute halt.

This fact that the news was accidentally made the news. I couldn't get an Uber earlier. Ha ha ha ha Andy, this was front page news in the times of India. Your name was mentioned in a couple of Indian newspapers. But I have to say that, you know, I've had the good fortune of being on the news quiz. We've talked about the news quiz. I've heard both you and Tiff on it. And I've been wanting to say this to both of you for a number of years. And I'm sorry I'm bringing this up now.

I have personally noticed a number of biases in the news. All right. Okay. Yeah. And I don't know what the Tory party were on about. And I really thought about this when I was going to Edinburgh to do my shows and my train was seven hours late. I had a lot of things to think about.

So I could have thought about the transport minister, but I was thinking about the news quiz. And these are the biases I've seen. I've seen a significant bias to something called cricket, a sport nobody cares about. There's too much of a bias towards jokes and humor, which we all know is detrimental to comedy nowadays. And I've also seen within that unnecessary comedy section that you guys do, there's

a bias towards puns, which almost seems to, you know, outweigh all the other things like observational humor, sketch and physical comedy, which I really miss on the news quiz. That is to be fair. I mean, there is quite a lot of physical comedy on the news quiz. It's just it doesn't always come across when you listen to it. That's what I've been listening to. I mean, Chiff, it's quite standard now for the government to complain that the BBC is biased. And the culture secretary Lucy Fraser also claimed that the BBC was biased and was asked for evidence and replied that the evidence of bias is

what audiences believe is the content of the BBC and then basically said that perception now counts as evidence which is quite exciting news if you're in the legal profession I guess it's gonna make your job a lot But I mean, it's quite a weird thing for the secretary of state for culture or against culture, I'm not sure to say in an interview. Absolutely mad. It was a car crash of an interview. You know, she said, Oh, the corporation is biased, it needs to adapt or risk losing the trust of audiences. And that was where Kay Burley kept asking for the evidence and she kept saying, well, it's the perception. And then Kay Burley said, perception is not evidence. It's kind of like me accusing Brad Pitt of a hate crime for not marrying me. Like when he ignores my multiple phone calls and let us to his agent, my perception

is that he hates me and thinks I'm ugly. Therefore, that is evidence, that's a fact, that's truth. And I do think we should, we need to have a multiple choice quiz for every incoming Tory culture secretary, because there'll be a new one like next week when Rishi is gone, we have to- I think she's done her week and a half, which is a statutory limit, I think. Yes, yeah, it's like jury duty, right? You swap them in and out.

So we need a multiple choice quiz, which is, is culture A in my actamel, be the reason I have thrush, see something to do with the arts or is bias A, a cut of dress, B, like pansexual, see something to do with the arts or and finally is funding And finally, is funding A for A, my mates, B, my mates, mates, or C, my family. And that's really all they need to be able to answer as a culture secretary. Yeah, it was it was absolutely embarrassing. It was awful. And look, listen, most comics are going to argue that the news quiz is biased

based on whether or not they get booked for it. Yes, I think it's biased against me. I don't I haven't actually done the news quiz. So I believe it's biased against me. I'm going to say that now. But it's a weird thing of expecting there to be balance when you're the party in power. You can't expect like, of course, more of the satire is going to be aimed at you. Yes. And I mean, it's interesting this, this, I guess the, the always thin, well, gossip of the thin line between evidence and perception has been a thorn in our side as a species since the dawn of time. And one of the great examples of this came in 1912. French Austrian daredevil called Frank Franz Reichelt put his perception that he could

safely jump off the Eiv Tower wearing a homemade wing suit up against the evidence that gravity is real. And on that occasion, evidence scored a pretty conclusive, very conclusive victory. In fact, there's a dent in the ground under the Eival Tower could testify. Lucy Fraser. And it talked about impartiality with the BBC. And the thing with the BBC, I've done a lot of work for the BBC over the years. And impartiality runs through its core, sometimes to its own detriment. And I do a lot of work for the BBC, and not including full disclosure, actually, which I pitched them as the first fully naked radio discussion show of a broadcast.

The odd issue of Gardner's Question Time accepted, of course. So I do do a lot of work for the BBC, but until relatively recently I didn't do that that much. And I'm always, always aware of the BBC need for balance. So when I'm on Test Match Special doing my cricket statistics, for example, for every true statistic, I just completely make one up so that we can cater both to those BBC listeners who like the truth and those who prefer to live in a world of delusion. Don't tell anyone that because people think that I'm reliable. Was it a post-truth world? Well, I think we're stuck

between a post-truth world and a pre-truth world. So I don't know, there are no winners. The thing with the BBC is accused of bias by pretty much everyone, which suggests that either it's so committed to bias that it is biased in every way all the time, or it's not actually that biased at all. I guess it will in history be the judge of that. All sides. It's coming from all sides. I'm actually wrong. It's not just when it's from everyone. Lucy Fraser, the culture secretary, added, impartiality requires thought and it requires accountability. Two things that are not always obviously in the forefront of the government's golf bag, thoughts and accountability, she added,

there are only perceptions and perceptions are important. Unfortunately for the government at this point, there are also as well as perceptions, facts. And a lot of those facts help create the perception that the government doesn't know what the f*** it's doing. So, I mean, that perception, rightly or wrongly, is held by a majority of the perceiving public, according to opinion polls, and by a majority of the perceiving public according to opinion polls, and by a majority of conservative voters as well according to other opinion polls. And these conservative voters are currently very biased against the conservatives, with more than half of them, those who voted conservative in the last election not intending to do so, at the next one if I've perceived those numbers correctly. And the more you say perceptions,

the more it sounds like a sort of 80s nightclub, right? It's better to show up in your senders. Is everyone going to perceptions tonight? Now, I have a question for the both of you. You guys have the BBC. We don't get access to it. But one of the things the BBC is known for around the world, which really annoys me, are facts.

Just like the ones you brought up, Andy. I guess they look for facts around the world. It really annoys me. Our facts, just like the ones you brought up, Aunty. I guess they look for facts in the UK. They look for facts here. Now, do they not know, can you tell someone at the BBC that the world has moved on from facts? I mean, we've moved on to podcasts. We've moved on to soothing YouTube videos of people cleaning carpets.

Well, this influences. Influences, thank you. It's opinion. So this terrible habit the BBC have of getting to actual sources, getting them to quote things, and then verifying that. It's very tedious. Yes.

I'll give you an example of a fact that just happened. There was an AI-generated social media ad, which everybody believed in India that played a couple of days ago featuring the Indian cricketer Sachin Tendulkar, great batsman, peddling an online gaming app. And he played that game with his fake AI deep fake daughter who was made up. He has no such child. And this was believed by the whole country. Why is the BBC behind the times? All right. Well, because institutions take time to change, Annuvaab. And you know, that

BBC is trying to change to become less fact-based. And I'm sure it will get there eventually. But at the moment, it is somewhat stuck in the past. But just one, the one thing that really annoyed me about about Hugh Merriman said, and I completely accept that comedy shows are not for everyone. Whatever you do, the significant proportion of your audience won't like it. And that's true of pretty much every comedian that's ever lived. But it was the fact that he said, he listened for 10 minutes. Hugh, you missed the 18 minutes of pro-Tory stuff we did after that.

You missed my explanation for how out-of-control immigration figures were actually giving people exactly what they voted for, how functioning transport links, which obviously is an issue close to your heart, only make people miserable because it shows them that there is a possibility of a better world, which is the surest path to being dissatisfied with your own life. And of course, you missed my erotic poem about neoliberal economists Milton Friedman and Margaret Thatcher in a newly privatised British telecom phone box. It wasn't that erotic, of course, there's limits, but just enough for simmering Jean-Esape Paul-Quoi.

I and Lady reach melting temperature. To put in context the state of the Conservative Party at the moment, well, I mean, last week, well, it was a day ending in the letter Y, it was a month with three or more letters in its name, it was a year with four figures in it, and it was a time of day between midnight and a nanosecond to midnight. So you can be pretty sure that the Conservative Party was squabbling amongst itself and thinking about changing its leader. What was once considered the party of stability, reliability and competence has been inflicting

its own sordid catalogue of identity crises on the country, basically ever since it came to power in 2010, gulping down and chundering out Prime Minister's cabinet ministers and barely quarter-ass policies like a lead poison Roman emperor at a particularly f*****g-headed banquet. And the latest was Simon Clarke, who was briefly a cabinet minister during the afternoon that Liz Truss was Prime Minister back in autumn 2022, who said that Rishi Sunak must quit before he leads the Tories to extinction. I don't know, it's not entirely clear who Clarke would rather lead the Tories to extinction. They seem never to be content with their current extinction direction leader. And it just seems like there is no point at which they will stop just bickering amongst themselves and think, oh, what is

our actual job? Well, I like that they said two extinction, because that seems to be a theme today, because we've discussed the woolly mammoth, but now it's, oh, first it was the dodo, now it's the tauries, will we be digging up their bones in years to come saying how did this happen? We banish cronyism and ruined their comfortable habitat forever. And it's survival of the fittest isn't it? Come on guys you need to adapt to be the leaders people actually want. So between them, I mean the infighting has gone on and on, but there are Tory party members who've sort of balk at the idea of him saying anything, saying, do we need advice from Liz Truss's right hand man who was in the job for five weeks? And

that's fair enough. They'd probably be as well asking a beauty influencer, at least they might get a glow up. But it's, it's, it's, it's pretty impossible to salvage any of their reputation right now. They aren't even the rats fleeing a sinking ship, are they anymore? They're just the fleas on the rats, fleeing a boat that's being screamed at from the shore by Nigel Farage. You know, like, what is left of it? They just, they, yeah, like you said, they consider themselves to be the party of consistency

and now they can't stand behind one person for more than like five minutes without a knife in their hand ready to get them. So they get to the front of the queue for their five minutes at the top job. I don't know if you know, but your Prime Minister's mother-in-law is India's best-selling, currently India's best-selling children's book author. And I was at a literary festival last weekend where she's written a short story about a small boy who repeatedly punches a bear that enters a home he shouldn't. And that got me thinking about, that got me thinking about your current situation, budget politics, and in particular

about a son-in-law who at the core of it, it is DNA, is, has always been a hedge fund manager. And it reminds me of the 2010 book, Too Big to Fail, which was about the financial crisis, in which Andrew Ross Sorkin, the financial editor of the New York Times had written, there's very little fun you can have with a hedge fund manager. I feel about Mr. Sunak.

I feel like he's the sort of parent that would take his child to an extreme paintball event and then later list that on a CV as having served in the armed forces. I feel like my only other experience I have with your prime minister is one Mr. Boris Johnson who at least, you know, had humor. He got in a cycle in Mumbai and we've talked about this before, Tiff and Andy. He got in a cycle in Mumbai, roamed around the Gateway of India, shouting to homeless people who wants to do a trade deal. I think at least there's something there you could work with.

Simon Clarke would defend himself after he was criticised by other members of the Conservatives for bringing more division to the party. He said, no one likes that guy that's shouting iceberg. No, Simon. Particularly not when the guy who's shouting iceberg was also the guy who, a little while ago, was shouting, let's ram this fucking ship into that fucking iceberg. And also, particularly when he's shouting it, long after the ship hit the iceberg, a split in half is about to relocate downwards. And everyone is wanting him to shut up so they can hear what the band is going to play for its finale.

The one pushing the women and children off the boat. As it goes into the iceberg. Senior Tories have rallied around the Prime Minister, which is usually a very, very ominous sign. Former Prime Minister Liz Truss teamed up with Jacob Reese Mogg for details of whom listened to various previous episodes of the Bugle, the Member of Parliament for the mid-18th century, I think he is. He's like a... Oh, how I would describe him as an absolute cluedo piece.

I think that's a good description of him. They've launched a new movement within the Conservative Party entitled Popular Conservatism, which is a bit of an out about turn from the unpopular destructivism that Liz put into practice when she was doing her work experience as Prime Minister. And I was looking at the number of different factions there are within the Conservative Party. And these are all official groups, according to various different websites. At least 12.

This is just within the parliamentary Conservative Party. There's one nation conservatives, the Common Sense Group, the Northern Research Group, the European Research Group, the New Conservatives, no turning back. Conservative Growth Group, Conservative Democratic Organization, the China Research Group, the Net Zero Scrutiny Group, the Conservative Environmental Network, and now the all new popular conservatism. So if you are getting the impression that the Tory party is not entirely unified and entirely dedicated towards the betterment of the United Kingdom, you might want to add that to your

little portfolio of evidence. Some more Britain news now and well, we don't know how many more episodes of the bugle we will be able to make because the head of the British army has warned that the entire public might have to be called up to fight in a war. That's not what he said but that's what some of the headlines implied that he said and that is good enough for me. What he did was he warned that the military was too small and said that we have to recruit more people

as reservists as well as to the regular army. But the headlines basically said, we're all gonna be conscripted. Start writing your poems now. So I mean, this is a bit worrying, Tiff and Annie Vablet. You know, the cozy assumptions that we've lived with in our generation that the piece of Four Bears, Fort Four, might not be quite as robust as it had seemed to be over recent decades. That's been rather shattered, hasn't it?

It's a fragile piece, Andy. And now it's time for conscription, baby. I've been saying for a while, right? Because I kept seeing all these articles in newspapers and magazines about the power of going gray and embracing aging. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. We're embracing aging. And then gradually I went, oh, no, no, no, this isn't what this is.

This is actually draft dodging because we're on the brink of World War III. So what's gonna happen now is just there's gonna be a lot of people trying to prove that they're too old to fight in a war by doing old people shit. So just like wandering around with a copy of Reedus Digest tucked underneath your arm, going into cafes and shouting at people that are ordering avocado on toast like, my word, you ain't one, you'll never buy a house. Even yourself a side part in because apparently that's what ancient

people do according to TikTok. Telling people to get off your lawn even if you live in a flat and occasionally just wandering into rooms asking what's on the wireless and leaving the torch on your iPhone constantly on. That is some old people shit right there. I think we're going to get to the point actually as women, you know, that we're going to start seeing those ads pop up on TV, you know, like ladies get yourself an over 40s hot because they're not going to get conscripted. So we're going to see those hot men over 40 in your area adverse start popping up.

You have just done the photo shoot for that. Now, the Chinese Olympic Association, they start going, how's the house looking for children to do gymnastics. And children have to be around the age of nine, any older that is qualified. That sort of stuff. I have a couple of suggestions. You could do that sort of stuff in Britain. And I think that it really helps every household to have rigorous combat training. I think in particular, say for example, if you have any arts households,

any households where both the earning members are involved in freelance arts of some kind, I think those households should undergo jiu-jitsu and knife training. Because it's useful both in war as well as in contract negotiations. So I think it's a double skill. Yeah. Yeah, we need people in proper jobs. I think a podcast with three comedians on, I'm not sure we're in a position to say people need to get proper jobs. But yeah, no, I'm including myself in that. I'm like, yeah. Well, actually, I think women, I've got gigs. There was a gig recently and there was a guy in and he said he was in construction. And then there was literally like a wet row at the back of the room of women who were

like, oh my God, a man with a real job. General Sir Patrick Sanos, the head of the army who made these comments, he said we will not be immune, basically referring to the current sort of global instability. And as the pre-war generation, we must similarly prepare, and that is a whole of nation undertaking, which is why people jumped to the conclusion that he was saying everyone's going to be conscripted. But you do have to ask the question, are we tough enough these days as a society? I mean, even some senior government ministers can't take 10 minutes of mild criticism on a comedy show

without needing to take a long, hard bath for themselves. And having seen the mayhem unleashed when cricket commentators started using the word batter instead of batsman, I'm not sure as a nation how we will respond to the challenge of the invitation of being vaporized by a Russian space laser. So I don't know if we're going to step up to the plate quite as heroically as previous generations did. I can't think of a time you know when young people would be less inclined to fight for a country that's robbed them for a hope of any kind of future. Unless we are some of those

lovely lads who protected the statues a couple of years ago. I don't know if you remember those There was that Venn diagram of people who voted Brexit to maintain British culture and people in England tops pissing on statues So I feel like they might be up for going and and fighting in a war also Bernie Eccleston He said he'd take a bullet for Putin so all, at one point. So we could see how that pans out. We just put billionaires on the front line, you know, like Bezos mask, we get them involved. Like relax everyone, the one billionth airborne are going in. But so yeah, my steps on 17.

So it's like, I have heard like young kids, like genuinely ringing into like phone and radio shows, worried that they're going to have to fight in a war. He's like 17 and he's a drummer. So we were like, at least maybe you can lead the march and bang a drum. And he said he'd bring his laptop and do some beats in logic. So I think the one thing we know is that it's good to know we've upped our effort on the music production side. If we do go into World War Three, we've definitely upped our game there.

So we've got more got more to play with. That's good. It looked like the first scene of Mad Max. It was just great because it was... I'm having a good time. I just have a quick question, though, for both of you. Does it have to be directly universal conscription? I mean, would incentives work?

I know it's a voluntary army. When I was in college in the United States, you know, at the reception area, the US Army would set up a thing. It said, sign up for the US Army and get free snacks. So... Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, it's possible.

And the problem is, as you say, there's, you know, greater skepticism of, you know, the joy and privilege of being slaughtered in mechanicalized conflict for spurious reasons, laced with often questionable patriotism. The problem for any general kitchener of today is that if you stick out a finger on a recruitment poster towards the public saying saying your country needs you, it's quite likely that another finger will be raised right back at you.

But also, I mean, surely, like I said, we've grown up with these assumptions that we would never, you know, our generation, our children's generation wouldn't need to fight in the way that our, you know, grandparents' generation did and our parents' generation would have done if the Cold War had ever got hot. But surely the whole point of modern military technology is that we can be cannon fodder, just like in World War One, but from the comfort of our own homes, without having to trudge

around getting cold in the trenches. We just sit there and wait for the merciful release of nuclear armageddon. The poetry might not be quite as fun, but you know, we save on transport, which is good for the merciful release of nuclear armageddon. The poetry might not be quite as fun, but you know, save on transport, which is good for the environment. Well, it did save men and women in his speech, and I took me a rereading to see that bit, and I was like, oh, well, I don't fancy going up against Russian women in the war. Like, they were badass during World War II. They had the night witches used to go in and fly planes and stuff and do like night time bombing and shooting and yeah I'm quite, listen I've got a new series of Reacher to get through on Amazon Prime. I don't think now's that it's not good time for me.

Indian news and well, I know things are always there's always news in India. I mean, there's what, what one and a half billion people around about there's 1500 languages. I don't know how religions, 48 million different ways of making curries. So it's hard to expect the kind of glorious national cohesion we enjoy in less complicated nations such as the United Kingdom. But there's been a new temple opened recently that's sort of of emphasized quite how taught things are in India at the moment, particularly under the government of Narendra Modi. Right, yeah. I mean, there never has been a time on the bugle where I thought we'd run out of time and I'd be lucky. This is clearly not one of those times. They built a massive temple in the city of Ayodhya, in the state of Uttar Pradesh. It opened last week. The plan is to make Ayodhya like Mecca or the Vatican,

the center for Hinduism. Now, the only problem is that till the year 1992, from about several thousand BC, a mosque stood there. And you guys have visited India. There's enough place to put a temple next to a mosque, but somehow a large support base of the ruling party decided that the temple had to sit exactly where the mosque was and

a slightly disturbed mob in the year 1992 tore down the mosque and in the year 2019 there was a judgment from the Supreme Court of India a court that you guys had kindly set up in the 1800s and they decided by set up in the 1800s. And they decided by statutes of Victorian law that the temple had to be built exactly where the mosque was. And they went back to the archives of 2000 BC.

And somehow, clearly the archaeological survey of India had an office in 2000 BC, where they could pinpoint that that's exactly where the temple was. And it was a temple to the Hindu deity Ram from the myth Ramayana. And he was born there. And so the temple had to come up there. And that's the temple that's come up. The mosque was given land a little further away. Very controversial. What people don't know was there was also a wrestlers association in the same compound. And they were given land. This is what people don't talk about.

That's what I'm really upset about. And the. And they were given land. This is what people don't talk about. That's what I'm really upset about. And the wrestlers were also given land. But the main temple is the Ram Janma Bhoomi, the birthplace of Ram temple. It's come up and it's had a massive opening last week. Prime Minister Modi, the head of the right wing RSS and the chief minister of Uttar Pradesh were the first three people that

went into the temple along with the high priests followed by 2,000 different Indian celebrities, businessmen, cricketers, lots of friends of yours, people, you know, the high places. And I was quite fascinated by the seating chart of the VIPs of who gets to be closest to God and who doesn't. of who gets to be closest to God and who doesn't. Interestingly, India's biggest billionaire, Mukesh Ambani, fourth richest man in the world, was three layers removed from God. In front of him was the actor who played Ram in the popular TV series.

And I always wonder who does this seating, the income tax commissioner of India. He had the sixth row behind the great idol of Ram. So the chairman of the electricity commission was much closer to God. So the point I'm trying to make is big event, big event. I mean, there was a mosque there in thousands of years BC. I mean, this is a radical rewritingrites for religious history, Anifar.

So... Well, you know, here's the thing. If the Supreme Court hadn't given that judgment, there would be a temple built on top of the mosque, which would have been one of the greatest symbols of religious unity the world has ever seen. But clearly, the Supreme Court decided that there'd know. There was a Ram temple here.

And here's the thing, right? I think a lot of Western listeners may not know this. Hinduism is often associated with a lot of, ah, you know, just sort of relaxed and groovy sort of stuff. You know, you think, oh, Hindus, you think nice sequined dresses, Diwali fireworks, temples in Nisdon, that kind of thing. Now, so what is there to worry about?

Nothing really. And that's what I'm really here to say. There's nothing to worry about. They're wonderful, you know, the new Hindus that are in power. They're not in any way militant. They are lovely, they're caring, and I am not at all nervous to make a joke

about this news item. I am not currently shaking my leg and hoping that the end if move on to the next topic. And not once have I said that it is, that I am unsafe in my residence, my largely unprotected residence, which currently has had two orange flags planted

outside the main gate by peaceful groups of young reasonably violent men, without asking any of the residents of my building society whether we'd like to participate in said religious fervour. So let me repeat, we have none of us have been influenced at all, except right at our doorstep and none of these things are affecting me at all. I am perfectly fine. Oh, that's good to hear. I mean, yeah, this is a dispute going back centuries into history, fuelled by a religion still causing severe ructions and disharmony today.

It's just another day in the sausage factory of world news. That's just what we do on this planet. Exactly. Exactly. I looked up Lord Ram and I thought he seemed pretty awesome. Isn't he supposed to be the perfect man? You know, he's blue, like the other perfect men, Dr. Manhattan, William Wallace and Papa Smurf. Well, Vanity Smurf, obviously, the John Oliver Smurf, that's, you know, could there be a greater example of human, well, Smurf, Smurfio, human perfection. He seemed cool because he's like brave empathetic, humble, loved his wife and he's ripped.

Exactly, exactly. Very in the mid, very progressive, eventually ended up letting his wife run the kingdom. I like him even more. I didn't know that bit. I mean, this guy seems great. Yeah. Currently being co-opted to win elections, not so cool.

Not as exciting for him, but the OG Ram from the texts is a pretty cool guy. But now it seems every version of India has its own Ram, took one to win an election. My local badminton club has a Ram symbol when we are taking on the rival badminton club has a Ram symbol when we're taking on the rival badminton club. So clearly there's a Ram for everybody tiff. Moving on finally to what the biggest story in India that we've been skirting around Anavab,

the glorious victory of the England cricket team in the first test match in the Hyderabad, one of the greatest victories in English cricket history, coming back from a huge deficit after the first innings for each side to win. Winning in India has been one of the hardest tasks in global sport in recent years. India had only lost, I think, three of the last 45 home test matches. England had a rookie spinner on his debut had no real recording out bold India's legends of the game Ashwin and and Jadajah it's it's basically like I said you know one of the greatest days along with West Indies have been terrible for not terrible but really struggled for

decades now having their first win in Australia since the last millennium sparking. If you've not watched the the celebration when they took the last wicket is one of the great sporting celebrations and covered a spectacular distance as the other players ran around the field celebrating. It was what I think one of the greatest days in the near 150 year history of Test cricket, which as I said is the greatest thing ever concocted by the human mind. So it's basically the greatest day in human history. But how is India coping with these convulsions in the space-time continuum of cricket that have seen them dominate at home?

Well the new story here is we've won because we don't have the BBC. We can say whatever we want. And most news outlets are saying we've won. So that's one thing. But the thing I want to say about this, Andy, is normally, and Tiff, you're here, you're evidence to this, when we discuss things on the bugle, we go back and forth on news stories, various headlines which have some ironic view

on world situations. The story we were covering, this particular story, India loses it cricket. And it didn't come in an email. It came as a personal text message to me. I'm worried this is not a bugle thing, but you should try to say something. And I'm not sure what it is.

But again, I guess it's not common for these sorts of things to happen, but accidents happen in the world, you know? There are tragedies, bridges collapse, England wins. I mean, these things happen. I mean, one had one Indian news website, and the Cric info that you know well, had a headline which I think summed it up. It said, we were were shit they were not

and I think so much of the world is that really Cric is a metaphor for life so it is that but I'll have you know that the message travels because I heard the great Sting, who is a British musician, and a packed Mumbai stage last night, and he had two songs in. He said, how about the cricket? And 80,000 people booed him. LAUGHTER And that's... I don't know how I feel about that.

Just again, facts. Just India going, how about you just play the hits and shut up? Yeah. Gordon. Well, that brings us to the end of this week's Bugle. We will have further updates from the the world. There's been some, well, some fairly heavy stuff updates from the the world. There's been some well some fairly heavy stuff going on around the world. We might have to return to when it's February. Next week we have

Nish Kumar and Chris Addison on. Don't forget to put your tickets for the Bugle live shows in March dotted around the UK details at the buglepodcast.com. Come to all of the shows or one of them up to you. I mean, if you wanna come to eight shows in eight different cities, you'd be more than welcome. But also there's a couple of London dates in June as well. You can also hear me on the news quiz currently via the BBC Sounds app, or if you wanna listen to it when it's gone out of date elsewhere.

Tiff, anything to plug? I am at Leicester Comedy Festival on February 25th and I'm doing a show at 1pm because reasons. So it's in the afternoon so I just I'm heavily plugging that so buglers please do come along. It's a work in progress of my new show Brave New Tiffany, because I think the world needs a PR, a new PR, should I say. So I'm going to try and come up with some solutions. So come to that. And also Old Rope, every second Monday of the month at the comedy store, I believe Andy is doing one maybe in March, I think.

I'm doing March, yes. You are doing March. So come along to that. Just look on my Instagram or Twitter. I'm still calling it that. I don't care. And you will find information for those things. Yeah, I returned to the UK in May for a short tour of the Department of Britishness. I hear that there is a big demand for Britishness in the world. Huge. So I am hoping to tap into those large audiences that want to listen to an Indian person talk

about Britishness, especially in towns like Romford or Suffolk, places like that, where I've never been but I plan to visit for the first time. So yeah, that's in May and the dates will be on my website. Don't forget, if you want to join the Bugle Voluntary Subscription Scheme, to become a voluntary subscriber to the show, keep it free, flourishing and independent, go to thebuglepodcast.com and click the donate button. Subscribers get access to an exclusive monthly Ask Andy show, plus premium level voluntary subscribers will be receiving the Bugle vinyl record, which is currently, I think, in the vinyl record factory being pressed.

So you should be receiving it soon. It's going to be orange. There. I've said it now. Thank you very much for listening. But those tickets to our live shows, see you at them in March and we'll be back next week in February. Until then, goodbye. you