The Bulwark Podcast - A.B. Stoddard: Liz Cheney Groupie

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Cheney makes clear where she comes down on the POTUS rematch and is showing ex-Trumpworld figures how it's done. Plus, the 'Dallas' and 'Dynasty' show at the RNC, Biden's unforced error with anti-Trump Republicans, and 'Genocide Joe' campus activists are not the Dem base. A.B. Stoddard joins Tim Miller for the Easter weekend Bulwark Pod. show notes: Send your mailbag questions here: [e-mail] Tim’s Playlist Article on Biden with a super soaker Tim and Eric Levine on MSNBC: https://youtu.be/N7Or-ORaW30

landlord telling you to just put on another sweater when your apartment is below 21 degrees? Are they suggesting you can just put a bucket under a leak in your ceiling? That's not good enough. Your Toronto apartment should be safe and well-maintained. If it isn't and your landlord isn't responding to maintenance requests, RentSafeTO can help. Learn more at toronto.ca slash RentSafeTO. All right, folks, happy Easter. A couple quick housekeeping notes for you. I was going to do a mailbag today, but me and A.B. Stoddard just

spent like 10 minutes just loving up on Liz Cheney at the end of this podcast, and so we didn't have time to get to it. So I will do a mailbag on Monday after the Bill Kristol episode. So if you have questions, email bulwarkpodcast at thebulwark.com. I want some policy and politics questions, but ask me about other stuff too. You know, let your freak flag fly. One of the mailbag questions that many people ask is, can you please tell us what the closing song titles are? Blah, blah, blah.

Yes, we do. I have a Spotify playlist. We are going to put the playlist in the show notes of every Friday's episode. And if you're in the comments section, share it with people who ask. So I don't have to keep doing it. And just a reminder, if you want to just troll me in the comments instead of sending emails, that is a special feature for our Bulwark Plus members. So just go to thebulwark.com slash free trial to get a 30-day free trial of the Bulwark Plus. We would appreciate

your support. Up next, Alexandra A.B. Stoddard. Hello and welcome to the Easter Weekend Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller. I'm not showing any sacrilegious Swindler Bibles this weekend. We are spinning Beyonce's new country record. I'm here with A.B. Stoddard. Hello, A.B. Hi, Tim. Or should I call you Alexandra? I was able to have a beer at the Great Kingpin Bar in New Orleans with your daughter recently. And we started talking, and she was like, so when did you meet Alexandra? And I looked at her, I was thinking, who are you talking about? I need to back up for everybody that when Tim graciously showed up to meet my daughter in New Orleans with a family friend in our company Slack.

Tim says, I just met Aby Stoddard Jr. And I said, Tim, oh, you're the best. Thanks for showing up. And I think the whole company, Tim, thinks that I sent you out of your marathon and whirlwind of work duties out to a bar to babys babysit my 22 year old daughter and not that you just happen to join up with her meeting up with a good family friend but um she was thrilled to meet you cannot stop talking about how hilarious you are and how hip you are and it was awesome she was she was great she's great it's a it's a good family you've been you've been a good mother i think it's good

parenting so it was it was very lovely to meet her. And as a gift, I have a little audio present for you. I haven't told you what we're starting with today, but it's kind of like a little Easter treat, like something you might find in your Easter basket, but in your ears. Let's take a listen. So, don't think, just jump. You can't give up. Know that anything is possible. No. Have faith. Believe. Just trust. Oh, this is the short version?

You'll see. Anything is possible. Okay. I can't. I can't do it. Jason, please stop. Please save me. Stop it.

Stop it. Oh my God. That's the new co-chair of the RNC, Lara Trump. She's got a single out today. Anything is possible when you marry the stupidest Trump child. You know, you can become the co-chair

of one of our great political parties. You can become a top 40 artist. It's a nice life. And I think she does exercise videos with celebs. Tim, I think I learned from you or who did we learn from that Ed Henry helped her put

that album out or that single. Yeah, that was Mona. Mona was doing a investigative journalism on that i think and reported to us that uh ed henry who is booted from fox for sexual harassment allegedly and is now i guess i don't know i guess a maga yeah and i think also the january 6th choir i believe ed henry is also also has has some imprisoned clients. Woof. You know, I don't know. What do you think it says about the state of the Republican Party now that the co-chair is putting out just cringetastic singles and they're hosting fundraisers for the RNC where

the money first goes to her dad's legal fund? I just loved the conversation you guys had on the next level about this. Like, it's just full on third world dictator, you know, style. I mean, as JVL said, you only trust the family. And they get to run everything. No one has any visibility into the funding, the future plans for the funding, the formulas for how it'll be divvied up in terms of what goes to the mass of the legal defense fund, what's left for down ballot and state parties and candidates that are supposed to be creating the Republican Party of tomorrow, like there's ever going to be a post-Trump family Republican party. So donors want to believe that this is the last hurrah for Donald Trump, that he's going to be a lame duck, second term, come back a president

if he wins, and then that will be the end of it. And they are giving to an organization that's now run by him and basically subsidizes his needs. And the money goes, as I noted last week, straight in the new formula. It can get to the RNC if there's a mega monster event. But most of it goes first to the Trump campaign, which is struggling. It's less than half of Biden's haul at the end of February is what Trump ends up with. And then it goes to Save America and Save America literally funds the kids. And Melania's stylist, they call it strategy consulting, not strategic consulting, strategy consulting.

She doesn't appear in public anymore except for funerals. So it's not her clothing and her hair. I don't know what it is that they're consulting with her about. Maybe, you know, another stab at the divorce, but it is, it is completely out of some bad TV show or soap opera, you know, and it's, it's like the Dallas dynasty of politics and, and donors are, they know this, Tim, and they're going in and acquiescing to this pretty soberly. I mean, they know exactly what the Trump family is doing and this is what they want and they're going to get it hard.

So that's how I feel about it. We have a specific donor we're going to talk about in a little bit. I do kind of wonder if Mussolini's daughter-in-law was kind of an artist. Maybe she had an opera single that she was doing on the side. I don't know. And everyone had to kind of go to the Italian opera and pretend like it was good. I kind of imagine this. I like the title, though. Everything is possible. Because now at the RNC, everything is possible. Or that's part of her refrain. For the Trumps. Okay, on the donor thing, just really quick. Biden raised a bunch of money last night in New York with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama

and one of our competitor podcasts, Smartless. You know, we're available also for these bookings, guys. I know I wasn't on Arrested Development. The Trump campaign has attacked Biden because there was an officer funeral that was happening at the same time Jonathan Diller, that Trump went to. And so I'm curious what your thoughts are on that critique. But also, I do think that it is no again, like the gap in fundraising here is pretty significant. I'm like,

pretty pessimistic on how much money actually matters in presidential campaigns. But we're getting to a point where Biden has so much more than Trump that it is a real advantage. What do you think? I'm with you, Tim. I think that we lost so many traditional building blocks of politics in 2016. And I think the metrics that we used to pay attention to and value have really gone away and eroded retail campaigning, endorsements, and television advertising. And I think money, I mean, I watched those Senate races like you did in 2020. We were told also in the polling that we were going to have all these Democrats just knock it out in red states from Iowa to Montana to Kansas to South Carolina

to Kentucky. And they all lost badly. And they raised so much money. And so I just, I don't know how far that'll get Biden. My thinking is, I'm really hoping that they have a really sophisticated social media plan of attack because of what we're seeing on the left with kids, and what they're being fed about the war in Gaza. So that becomes the biggest impediment in terms of the coalition. And I don't know if money can get at that. I hope that it will. And, you know, it always will fund, you know, get out on the ground stuff that is important. But I do wonder like you whether or not that's going to be able, the biggest challenge right now

is the information bubble, right? Does money break through that? Or do you just fight fire with fire online? So we'll know that, you know that by next cycle, but not now. Yeah, I think it's not nothing that Biden is able to be up on the air framing some of this, you know, streaming some of his arguments a little bit. We're seeing modest movement in the polls, very modest, but it's not nothing. I'd rather be in Biden's position than in Trump's. I guess we'll put it that way on the financial side of things. We'll see the extent of the difference.

I want to talk about something happy, and then we'll get into the sad stuff. How about that? Or do you want to flip? Do you want to do happy first or sad? No, it's Easter. He's risen. I can go everywhere. I can go down.

I guess it's Good Friday, technically. Maybe actually let's do that. We'll end with Liz Cheney. We'll resurrect the podcast with Liz Cheney at the end it's good friday so we'll start then in the dark place with the concerns about the biden campaign that were in the politico article this morning by our friend jonathan martin jmart writes that joe biden has apparently not contacted george bush mike Mike Pence, Larry Hogan, Chris Christie, Paul Ryan, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, Todd Young, Bill Cassidy, and Lisa Murkowski. He did call Haley the day she dropped out.

I don't do anything on this podcast that I don't tell my friends privately. I've told people in Biden world that I think that they should be doing full court press on this. I think many of these people are gettable. I read the article with some consternation. It is only March, but I don't know, man. I know there's a lot happening, Gaza, Ukraine, but this should be Biden's wheelhouse, right? And that's what Jay Mark does a really good job of articulating, that Biden, more than everybody in his cohort, in the Senate now, in the Senate then, when he was

vice president for Obama. Congressional Democrats during Obama felt, you know, ignored by the president, but the vice president was always scrambling around to not only cut the deals and the negotiating, but the back slapping and the connecting. And that's his gift. And he knows how necessary it is. And so at this great deficit that, you know, that I just noted in his coalition, he knows from 2020, he won with Republicans. At that point, it was 6%. We're obviously really counting on that number growing this time after

January 6, among Republicans, and the Haley returns, even after she dropped out seemed to be encouraging. It's great he called Haley. It even after she dropped out, seemed to be encouraging. It's great he called Haley. It's great that his campaign, according to reporting in the dispatch today, have reached out to some Haley donors. But you don't just go after the Haley money, you have to speak to those voters, and you have to speak directly to the people that you just listed. And I always wondered why once he got into office in early 21, he didn't reach out to Romney immediately. And Romney actually went on the record and said that, you know, I never heard from the Biden campaign. I mean, that's just crazy. So this is such a gimme. It's just such an unforced error. And I obviously hope that that Jay Mart's column, you know,

causes some consternation in people closer to the campaign than you and I are, because they've got to take action. Like he said, why not have Chris Christie to launch? I mean, that's just Chris Christie turns no labels down. There's only one thing left for that guy. In your words, the hammer job. I mean, that's, that's it, right? He's got to go on TV and pound every day and doesn't have to support Biden. All he has to do is prosecute the case against Trump. And so there's no excuse for the Biden people not to come to these Republicans and at least, like JVL keeps saying, thank Mike Pence. You don't even have to ask him for his vote yet, but you start by thanking him. Joe Biden knows Mike Pence. This is madness that

he hasn't reached out and said, what you've done to up your death threat level in the last two weeks is such a service to this country. And you'll take your place in history among the bravest people of great integrity. This is bananas. Okay, sorry for my rant. No, please good rant and ask him for their advice. You know, make them feel like they have an ear. You know, maybe that makes a difference. Biden's busy. Jill's, let's get Jill a yellow legal pad

and she can start calling through all the wives or calling some of these folks themselves. Larry Hogan take a call from Jill. So anyway, I mean, in my fantasy world, for our Biden friends are listening to my fantasy world. Do you remember during the Obama years when Biden, I was never invited to one of these things. Maybe you are, A.B., you're an insider. Or Biden had the parties up at the Naval Observatory where he'd have the super soaker. You know, were you ever invited to a super soaker party?

Okay, well, Biden would take the super soaker out and like spray the journalists. They had a barbecue like a summer barbecue i kind of forgot what to google i forget exactly what was the fourth of july thing can't we all envision that together you know biden out there like scranton joe with his super soaker spraying chris christie you know or at least his kid yeah can we spray mother you know spraying mother a little bit? Kind of teasing with her? You know, everybody having some ribs?

That seems smart. I think people would come to that party. Tim, I think... I think that many of them would come to the party. I think they'd come to the party. I think mother would not take well to the super soaker, but I'm so here for it. I really am.

Okay, well, he's gone hayley let's just let's just turn it i guess let's just not let our imaginations be limited people like i know hey by the way i get it you got to work bernie you got to work aoc you got to do that too it's a busy job it's a hard job i'm not i'm not saying i don't need special treatment but one little party that's one little barbecue of people that are having endorsed donald trump that's all i'm asking also i just think that it's important for the coalition of people we're trying to put together and keep together that we remind people it's not but it's both and okay it's not but bernie but aoc right it's we have to hold a lot of truths together and a lot of disparate people in this coalition at the same time. But from Gaza to like calling Paul Ryan, right?

It's both. Nobody said you were signing up for an easy job saving democracy. He lost one voter though. Eric Levine. His vote in New York, I don't know is going to matter that much, but he's a prominent fundraiser. I had the just pleasure of getting to meet this gentleman, Eric Levine on daytime MSNBC a few weeks ago. And we'll put

the video of that in the show notes here. I think we played it on the podcast once before. And we had a heated exchange on MSNBC. At the time, he was claiming he hadn't decided who he was going to vote for. But all of his complaints were about Joe Biden. He's a Nikki Haley fan. And he was happy. He was praising Mitch McConnell for being a team player and not voting to convict Trump or not opposing Trump, even after Trump made racist jokes about his wife. So we kind of had a little bit of exchange about that. And then afterwards, it got a little heated on set. And then afterwards, offset, he said to me that people like me with my condescending judgmental attitude about Trump supporters

and the campus progressives is what's going to force people like him to vote for Trump, but he's not going to do it yet. That was February. This is March. He sends out an email to his friends that say the exact same thing he said to me, basically, in the green room. He had some concerns about January 6th, but as an American Jew, he questions whether there's a place in America for my grandchildren if the cancer of the social justice agenda continues to metastasize becoming ever more built into the laws that govern everyday regulations he goes on to talk about white privilege he doesn't like that phrase he talks a lot about the social justice agenda and how

they've sided with the Palestinians. Nothing about Joe Biden. We're on paragraph 12 here. Now he finally mentions Joe Biden. And he thinks that Joe Biden's putting a little too much distance between Israel, no mention of Ukraine or Putin in here. And then he goes, the real danger to American Jews is the Jew haters running around in the streets and on campus quads. No mention of the anti-Semite white nationalists that Donald Trump had lunch with there. Goes on, Harvard doesn't like MIT, doesn't like the University of Pennsylvania president, even though two of those three presidents have been kicked out. And then he says that the people protesting Biden are the core of his voting base.

That doesn't quite make sense to me. And then finally concludes by mentioning that Donald Trump's grandchildren are being raised as Orthodox Jews and that he wants to stamp out social justice. So he's been left with no choice but to vote for Donald Trump. I hate giving this guy so much attention, but there are a lot of these people out there. Maybe there are too many of these people in our lives right now. I know you have some of them in your life. You're going to see him this summer at the beach in Maryland. What do you say to them?

At some super soaker parties. Okay, this is the thing. I remember this segment. I did not know about the off camera conversation. I remember watching it. I thought you did great. And I did not think he could gross me out more than he did that day. But I have a few gems from reading over. Oh, great. I'm glad you took some notes. That he's upset. Eric's upset that Planned Parenthood and other women's groups didn't protest Hamas. So women are anti-Semitic and women's groups because they didn't protest Hamas after the war broke out. And yes, he says anti-Semites are Biden voters, not the Proud Boys. Biden betrayed, of course, Israel by our vote to abstain at the UN Security Council on the vote for a ceasefire.

And Biden is intentionally thwarting its war effort. So social justice agenda basically threatens Jews, and he has no choice but to vote for Donald Trump. This guy, from before he got on set with you, was of course always going to vote for Trump. He was going to say, after raising this money, spending this money, whatever, being part of the PAC, Republicans for Haley, he was going to say for a few days that it was very hard for him and he was struggling and he needed a good option.

And it's not fair. And he couldn't be taken for granted until he was. And this is all just a bunch of BS. I think it's important. I'm really glad you raised it. You sound conflicted over giving him airtime. But I think it's really important for the people who are in our conversations, right, and care about this mission that we're on, the fight that we're in, to understand what we're up against. I mean, it's really important for people in the Biden campaign to start talking about what Donald Trump would do in Gaza. And we can make passing references to, you know, to Jared's plans for condos, like you did the other day. But I think we actually need to raise this and highlight the fact that their record is something that the Biden campaign needs to discuss. while supporting the ratification of Hamas, and also in both supporting, but also holding to

account Bibi Netanyahu, who's not a good partner, and not a good actor. With all this complexity, right, with all this both and, with all this gray matter that Biden is challenged by, he needs to go to the black and white of Trump and make clear to the center of the electorate that we're trying to wake up. That no, the Democratic Party is not a bunch of anti-Semites who are trying to break Israel with our woke social justice agenda. So I think this is an important conversation. And it's obscene that someone like Eric Levine is going to make sort of fine purchase with this. And it's really important that it be called out. I think that we probably have some listeners. I have some friends that have messaged me with

much less like eye-rolly versions of the Eric Levine point. You know, people that I'm friends with in the Jeb campaign, people that are concerned about what's happening on campus, concerned about some Democrats going to distance from Israel. And I want to get to the campus thing next just as a separate item. But in the context of the Biden folks, like what I say to a lot of these people is like, I just, I don't understand what more they want. I mean, from the podium, KGP, who hasn't been that great in my opinion, but like she criticized Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar.

Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar. Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar didn't stand up for Joe Biden at the State of the Union. It was two people in his own party that didn't stand up for him because of his comments on this topic. Joe Biden's Secretary of State is Jewish. Tony Blinken has been, and has been, I think, pretty deftly trying to handle a very challenging situation here, you know, where I think there are legitimate concerns, both sides, but you also have to, you know, be very clear-eyed about what caused this, who was the perpetrator, it was Hamas. I don't understand why we live in this world where Eric Levine and his ilk can blame Joe Biden and Tony Blinken for some really gross things that are happening on ucla's campus and yet donald trump is not held

to account for the words and language and policies being proposed by the people wearing his hats and going to his rallies i just i don't understand what they're talking about like the protesters who are putting up anti-semitic paper mache pigs on campuses. These are terrible people. They're not Joe Biden voters. I know that Eric Levine's old and these people are young, so he assumes that they're Joe Biden voters and he's really scared of them. They're not Joe Biden. They don't like Joe Biden.

They like Joe Biden less than Eric Levine probably. Okay, like these, go to a protest and meet a kid that is protesting Gaza and ask them what they think about Joe Biden. Then go to a Proud Boys event. go to a Groypers event on campus, go to a TPSA event, go to one of Tucker's live shows and ask the people who are there who love Donald Trump what they think about Israel. Okay. So I'm like, look, we talked about this with Jake Tapper. There's anti-Semites that are coming from all political ideologies,. But the Joe Biden base is not the worst kids on campus. The Donald Trump base is the isolationist America first.

America first was an anti-Semitic thing, by the way, initially. The America first, that is the Donald Trump slogan. And if you think at the end of the day, the people that don't want to help Ukraine, that don't want to provide any aid, that don't want to welcome any immigrants, are going to come to the Jews' defense when they really need it? I've got a history, a couple of history books that you should read. So anyway, that's my rant about assessing the Joe Biden versus Donald Trump of it all on this topic. I appreciate every word. And I particularly loved the concept of Eric Levine being scared of young people. I know they're younger, so they might scare him. Again,

this goes back to the complexity of this. You can, Joe Biden can address the rise, the scourge of anti-Semitism, which is burgeoning and exploding in this country right now and is so enraging and so tragic without, you know, associating himself with Bibi Netanyahu's prosecution of the war. And he can and Democrats should call out Donald Trump, who's not talking about anti-Semitism. You know why? Because it makes the Proud Boys upset. So he's not actually getting up and saying what Eric Levine is saying, that everyone is a bunch of anti-Semites on the left. Occasionally he'll allude to it, but he's not explicitly saying people are attacking

Jews in this country because they don't like the way the leader of Israel is trying to go after Hamas in Gaza and he's killing too many civilians. And so we have people calling Joe Biden genocide Joe on these campuses. And then Donald Trump is getting a completely free pass for the fact that he's going to do shit to fight anti-Semitism that is like coursing through this country right now. Yeah. I cannot vote for Joe Biden because I'm really upset at the people on campus who are calling Joe Biden genocide Joe, because they're part of his coalition. Like it doesn't make any sense. Like it is nonsensical. That was an Atlantic article that Theo Baker wrote, where it was like one of the tas at stanford was talking about how joe biden should be assassinated like the far left campus activists want joe biden assassinated and they think that he's

committing an ethnic cleansing which is nonsense obviously and then a bunch of like rich right wingers who like don't want to accept the fact that they're part of just a grotesque populist America first regime, we're like, I can't vote for Joe Biden because Joe Biden's voters are the people that want him assassinated. Like, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? It makes no sense. Go meet a student. Go meet a student and go meet. I just like I have homework for everybody. If you decide that you do not want to make a judgment call based on Joe Biden or Donald Trump based on their own merits, but you want to decide based on their voters and what their voters want because you think they'll be responsive to the voters, I encourage you to go to a Joe Biden event, go to a Donald

Trump event, and go to a campus rally where they're calling Joe Biden Genocide Joe and actually speak to the people there. And then you can report back which types of voters you think are more in line with your views. Landlord telling you to just put on another sweater when your apartment is below 21 degrees? Are they suggesting you can just put a bucket under a leak in your ceiling? That's not good enough. Your Toronto apartment should be safe and well-maintained. If it isn't and your landlord isn't responding to maintenance requests, RentSafeTO can help. Learn more at toronto.ca slash RentSafeTO. The campus thing really quick, AB. And by the way, just I want to say this clearly, and I think I have on many podcasts, but you can be concerned about anti-Semitism and also be

concerned about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Those are two things that are not mutually exclusive, though I know that a lot of people in our discourse want to try to force us to have to choose. I would reject that choice. But I spent a lot of time this past week at USC's campus because I was doing a class there. I got to tell you, the students there were great. A couple of them participated in a Release the Hostages rally, which I attended with them. They did so freely and of their own volition. There was nobody spitting at them or yelling at them. It was a nice gathering on campus. I keep being told that these campuses are just wastelands of anti-Semitism. There were Israel flags and people spoke out.

I did also speak to another student who went to a different campus who was expressing some concerns about some language that was said in their classroom about Jews. So I'm not saying that this doesn't exist, that Theo Baker's story is obviously very good. So I think that this is a serious issue that we should be talking about and we should be trying to educate young people about without catastrophizing and making it caricature. So anyway, that's my experience last week. But you have actual young people in your life since you have college children, which we were just discussing. So what's your take on the young folks and anti-Semitism? Well, my children are not around any anti-Semitism and their friends are not engaged with any of this. They're not hanging out with people who are building tents and holding protests and stuff. They are aware because of my warnings since the 8th of October, that they have to be

very careful about the propaganda that other countries, our enemies are going to use to divide us. And that, you know, as you guys were discussing the other day, it's important that people be very skeptical about the pictures they're seeing that might be from another war from five years ago. So I just want Joe Biden to lean into this both and. I want him to be able to talk about suffering in Gaza, his work to champion a two-state solution, what he wants for the area next year or the year after, to be really clear about that because he's the best person to articulate that, but at the same time say that there's no place for anti-Semitism in this country now or ever.

I mean, I think he can do that so well. I just think he's afraid to. And it's the same feeling I have about Ukraine. You know, he starts the State of the Union with Ukraine. It was a bold move. I want him to lean into this issue so badly. And Bill wrote about this today. And Bill and I have talked about it a bunch. I just so desperately want him to call out the House Republicans and Mike Johnson right now. Be on offense. They're on recess. You know, talk about what's going on. The lights are out in cities in Ukraine. Like, this is going to change the world order. This is literally one on knife's edge right here. And it's no small thing. And I want him to champion democracy, a sovereign nation, being able to freely protect itself with our help from an invasion by a brutal dictator. And I feel that he should lead into that contrast. to be completely committed to Ukraine. But, and David Frum was right, that they have not always

tactically done the right thing at the right time fast enough. But to just not abandon this issue with the American people, like use the bully pulpit more. They were in it right away in 22, and then a little in 23, then they feel sort of, they feel like they can't talk to us about it. And maybe it's not like a 2024 election campaign. One of their top five issues, I think it resonates with the middle and the people that we need to come out, right? The people who believe in NATO, who are afraid of it being blown up. And those voters who are often Republicans or independents care about this. And I just think that the Biden people are too afraid of the issue, rhetorically. So that's another beef of mine. Yeah. I wonder if they can deploy Obama. Obama

was so good at the both and, and I had a lot of complaints about Obama at times, but like the campus thing, like who would be a better messenger for talking about you know hey we can be concerned about humanitarian issues and also concerned about anti-semitism and this was literally his 2004 convention speech right and uh it would be nice to be able to have that you know i don't know what he's doing in martha's vineyard or whatever but maybe we could maybe we could get folks off the sidelines i don't know ab it's just you and me and liz cheney that are like maybe we could maybe we could get folks off the sidelines i don't know ab it's just you and me and liz cheney that are like maybe we should be going balls to the wall on this right now guys i don't know um maybe we should be calling everybody into battle i will say and we'll get

to liz next is that biden we critique because we love and because we're scared of donald trump biden's been a lot more active lately. He's had a full schedule and Donald Trump's been golfing and in the basement. And they've been starting to draw that contrast. And part of the reason Donald Trump's been golfing in the basement ties back to the money issues we talked about at the top. I don't know that he's got enough money to run these rallies, like honestly. Liz Cheney was in Iowa at Drake University. She had a big crowd. She said there, write a message with us, AB, our soulmate. You never could have told me. I never would have believed it 10 years ago that Liz Cheney,

who I thought was too conservative for me, would be my soulmate. As frustrated as I know, people get sometimes with policy disagreements you might have. And I certainly have policy disagreements with the Biden administration. I know the nation can survive bad policy. We can't survive a president who's willing to torch the constitution. She committed that she would be campaigning. She didn't say with Joe Biden, but I'm kind of reading between the lines against Trump throughout the year. Thank God, right? I mean, like, isn't this all we're asking for from people? This is all I'm asking for to acknowledge your policy disagreements and just say, I'm going to campaign for it anyway because the threat's too great. She, again, I'm going to just groupie out and try to fight back the tears.

Let's do it. It's Easter. We're resurrecting. I remember in 2022, in the summer, a friend of mine who's a makeup artist at Fox. We were together and she said, I got to do Liz at like 6 a.m. And I said, oh my God, that's because the hearing is tomorrow. And you're going to do her hair and makeup. Will you please tell her that? And I was overcome. I said, I need you. And I'm like holding on to my friend. I said, I need you and I'm like holding on to my friend I said I need you to tell her that she has led with her example that what she is doing is so important she's giving so many of us hope

I can remember it's just like literally a crazy groupie moment in my life and I haven't had a lot I was overcome my mom I'm sure you saw that event I know she got a huge crowd in Iowa, which I was so excited about. It was a gazillion people in that arena. But my mom, there was one in Hartford like last weekend or something or 10 days ago. My mom was not able to get tickets, but her, my mom's 82. Her bitty friends got tickets and went in person. And then the rest of them like live streamed it at a friend's house together. They all got together. And they talked to their friends who went to the event and they were all

crying in the parking lot. And this isn't just better than nothing. This is so powerful to me. I just marvel at her for a couple of weeks after Oath and Honor, which is still on the bestseller list. And I really urge everybody to read this book or listen to it on audio, please. And tell everyone you know, too. It is amazing. And it's gripping and it goes really quickly. For a few weeks after that was released, Tim, she did remember, she's a little like, I don't know if I'm gonna run for president. I think it was just all more books, but she shut it down pretty quickly. And ever since then, she's made it clear, like she said about bad policy, we can live with bad policy, we can't live with Trump destroying the constitutional order. So she's been very clear about that. And I think it's so, so energizing, not only for us, but I think it's going to break

through to people in ways that, you know, we can't really even count yet. We can't like, you know, quantify it. I think it's amazing. And I also want to point out to, to our community, because this is incredible. This woman and her father are friends with Clarence Thomas and the justices of the Supreme Court, okay? What they are doing not only to invite threats on their lives, but to break up their inner circle, the life that they've always lived, the social set that they have been in. For her to say, I trust, she's talking about the court and the decision they made to take this on, but not in time for there to be a January 6th trial. She not only goes into this conspiracy theory that the right is trying to carry water for Trump on,

that some kind of evidence was stolen and the committee put it in a toilet somewhere and Trump is always truthing about this. She's explicitly telling people repeatedly, no, he has all the damn evidence. And the special counsel gave him everything from the grand jury and everything from the committee. And he knows that all of it would be so incredibly damaging for him. And he would be so fucked if all these former Trump officials that are basically the bulk of the evidence were testifying in open court.

And that would be the end of him. And for her to say to the court, I trust they'll deal in a responsible and expeditious fashion with this appeal, but recognize that taking action that will result in further delay in preventing the American people from seeing the evidence in open court is itself suppression of the evidence that the American people have a right to see. And the court ought to recognize that. That's incredibly brave. And it's no small thing. And I have to thank her every time she opens her mouth and I have to jump up and down and weep. But this is like next level to me.

Really is. Same. Same. The social stigma is an important element because it's what's prevented a lot of other people from doing it. So yeah, I didn't mean it as better than nothing. I meant it as like, this is it. This is what we're asking for, what Liz Cheney is doing. This is what we're asking for. When people are like, what do you want from John Kelly? And what do you want from Mattis and

all the people on that list that Joe Biden hasn't called enough that he should call soon? That's what I want. Just look at her, what's doing you know you don't need to go full lib you know you just have to be clear-eyed about what's happening with donald trump okay and the threat there's one reason she's clear about the threat and i want to leave us with this some people message and say they miss hearing charlie's voice so our friend charlie and uh and liz were attacked on steve bannon my nemesis's podcast uh yesterday and uh a couple people texted me about this. So I want to play just a little bit of what Liz and Charlie had to say about Mike Davis

and what Mike Davis said about them on Steve Bannon's podcast as a little lanyap for the end of our episode. One of the individuals has talked about how he wants Trump to appoint him to be attorney general for three weeks. And at the end of three weeks, he's he's going to leave Washington with a pardon from Trump. And he's laid out his plans for those three weeks, which include indictments, detentions.

I mean, there is very it's chilling and it's tempting to listen to these people and think, you know, well, they're they're crackpots and they are. But but a crackpot with power is really dangerous. So I think it's important to take seriously and literally what they're saying. Right. You know, the discussion he's talking about is a crackpot. But, you know, you put crackpots in power. They can be dangerous, as I've said many times. You know, now we know what a close-run thing it was. So, yeah, the fact that people are saying, I'm going to come in here, I'm going to override the Constitution, and then what are you going to do about it? Mike Davis joins us. By the way, Mike Davis, Charlie Sykes, is a quite bright guy. I mean, he hates us, but he's a bright guy. He fails to talk about the

Electoral Count Act of 1887, which gave the Vice President full authority to do that. They had to change it in the middle of the night and slip it into an omnibus bill because they had to cover the tracks of the crimes that they did. Of course, Steve. Mike, as you said this morning, there has to be a special prosecutor and a massive criminal probe of this lawfare that's against everybody. I'll turn it over to you, Mike Davis, because you put the fear of God in these folks. Which I love. I would say to Liz Cheney, she needs to keep up. I've abandoned my plot to be Trump's attorney general because there's that whole pesky Senate confirmation thing. My next plot is to serve as Trump's viceroy of D.Cc and i'm going to create a very special gulag for the humorless washed up

dc politician losers like liz cheney well there you go they've got gulag plans i mean liz cheney just has these people's number doesn't she it's like yeah this is the problem this is the problem a lot of people eric levine's of the world want to dismiss this. They don't want to listen to this. They don't want to look in the eye, but these people might be clowns, but they're dangerous fucking clowns. And we got to take it seriously. And Tim, I did not mean to suggest that you were the one saying that, that it was sort of better than nothing. You were, you know, you were like injected into my veins, like me. I think a lot of Democrats who we are working with tend to think like, oh, well, like, and then there's that. And they don't really understand how potent it is. You've taken care of Mike Davis, which I'm really glad you should do that again. You should continue

to remind our readers and our listeners in the best singular way that you do. But he's terrifying. And he's really one of the only people that will say it completely out loud and use words like gulag. bail Cassidy Hutchinson and Liz Cheney and have tanks in the street and enforce a Christo nationalist theocracy plan for the country. And by the way, even if their gulag plan doesn't work, even if that's a joke, even if that's a troll, it's not a troll for the deportations. And these are the assholes. And maybe it won't be Mike Davis himself, because he's just too big of a clown to get hired, but probably not. It might be Mike Davis himself,

but there'll be people like Mike Davis that just don't have as big a mouth that are just as gross as him who are running a government run deportation scheme. And so I, I think that everybody should take that very fucking seriously, very seriously. I think everyone should familiarize themselves with project 2025. Yeah.

If you know, 78% of the country is in favor of abortion medication, and that's one of their plans is to have the FDA ban it. I mean, there's just a lot in there. You know, I think there's a lot that people need to familiarize themselves with. Yeah, the policy actually matters. Okay, A.B. Stoddard, thank you. It's a wonderful Friday. What are you doing for Easter? Are you doing a hunt?

Are you doing an Easter egg hunt? No. Are you having a bunny? Are you eating a chocolate bunny? No, we've moved past that. But I have both my college seniors here who are graduating next month, or I guess almost next month,

they're graduating in May. And they're both home for the weekend. Our baby is over in Florence for her semester abroad. So we miss her, but it's awesome to have them home and we're going to eat, drink and be merry. How about you? I don't know. I've been in LA all week. I've missed my child. And I'm just I'm happy to be back in New Orleans. Oh, I'm actually if you're in New Orleans, I'm moderating a panel with Rob Reiner tomorrow, actually, tomorrow afternoon for his documentary. His documentary, God and Country, which we did a podcast about.

If you didn't listen to it, you can go back. But if you're in New Orleans, that's tomorrow afternoon at the Britannia French Quarter, Britannia Theater. There are two Britannia theaters, not the Uptown one. And I'm doing that. And then, I don't know, me and the kiddo, just, just i don't know ferret street and hang out and brunch and cool eat chocolate bunnies i think i'm gonna eat a lot of chocolate bunnies yeah make sure she has some candy we're gonna have a lot of candy yeah this is the weekend for that all right ab stoddard thank you so much we'll be seeing you

all have a great easter and we'll see you on Monday. Peace. Tears that filed me last night I saw some kind of new light I woke up in a whirlwind Hey baby, just you watch my head spin It's difficult to make you cry It's a thrill of many plane rides It's overtime at ringside No, I Watch me down It's overtime at ringside, no, I

Watch me down to the sesame field Where it is I do the thing Kiss the baby on the easy side Baby, I wanna eat your soul Make my head go away I wanna make your love away How hard I think I go and I find Truth in a fable, faith in a rhyme So why they wanna play and talk to me? Are they surprised by what we see? Like my table and my time turn

Like on my bed, thinking for a while Who's that on top of me? It could be me I'm on my bed thinking for a while Who's that on top of me? It could be me March me down to the southern seas Bury me with a bloom of heat Kiss me baby, wanna eat you so bad The Borg Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brough.