The Bulwark Podcast - Bonus Episode: Listen to the Superseding Indictment

Episode Date: July 28, 2023

Federal prosecutors have added new charges against Trump in the classified documents case, including his alleged efforts to have security camera footage deleted at Mar-a-Lago. This bonus episode of Th...e Trump Trials is a reading of the superseding indictment, and was produced using an artificial voice generator. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:01:05 Parts of the text have been edited for clarity and ease of listening. The recording was produced using an artificial voice generator. United States of America v. Donald J. Trump, Waltine Notta, and Carlos de Oliveira. Superseding indictment. The grand jury charges that, 1. Defendant Donald J. Trump was the 45th President of the United States of America. He held office from January 20, 2017 until January 20, 2021. As President, Trump had lawful access to the most
Starting point is 00:01:35 sensitive classified documents and national defense information gathered and owned by the United States government, including information from the agencies that comprise the United States intelligence community and the United States Department of Defense. 2. Over the course of his presidency, Trump gathered newspapers, press clippings, letters, notes, cards, photographs, official documents, and other materials in cardboard boxes that he kept in the White House. Among the materials Trump stored in his boxes were hundreds of classified documents. Three. The classified documents Trump stored in his boxes included information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries, United States nuclear
Starting point is 00:02:23 programs, potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attacks, and plans for possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack. The unauthorized disclosure of these classified documents could put at risk the national security of the United States, foreign relations, the safety of the United States military and human sources, and the continued viability of sensitive intelligence collection methods. 4. At 12 p.m. on January 20, 2021, Trump ceased to be president. As he departed the White House, Trump caused scores of boxes, many of which contained classified documents, to be transported to the Mar-a-Lago
Starting point is 00:03:05 Club in Palm Beach, Florida, where he maintained his residence. Trump was not authorized to possess or retain those classified documents. 5. The Mar-a-Lago Club was an active social club, which, between January 2021 and August 2022, hosted events for tens of thousands of members and guests. After Trump's presidency, the Mar-a-Lago Club was not an authorized location for the storage, possession, review, display, or discussion of classified documents. Nevertheless, Trump stored his boxes containing classified documents in various locations at the Mar-a-Lago Club, including in a ballroom, a bathroom and shower, an office space, his bedroom, and a storage room. On two occasions in 2021, Trump Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey, the Bedminster Club, during an audio-recorded meeting with a writer, a publisher, and two members of his staff,
Starting point is 00:04:13 none of whom possessed a security clearance, Trump showed and described a plan of attack that Trump said was prepared for him by the Department of Defense and a senior military official. Trump told the individuals that the plan was highly confidential and secret. Trump also said, As president, I could have declassified it, and now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret. B. In August or September 2021, at the Bedminster Club, Trump showed a representative of his political action committee who did not possess a security clearance, a classified map related to a military operation, and told the representative that he should not be showing it to the representative and that the representative should not get too close. 7. On March 30, 2022, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, FBI, opened a criminal investigation into the unlawful retention of classified documents at the Mar-a-Lago Club.
Starting point is 00:05:12 A federal grand jury investigation began the next month. The grand jury issued a subpoena requiring Trump to turn over all documents with classification markings. Trump endeavored to obstruct the FBI and grand jury investigations and conceal his continued retention of classified documents by, among other things, A, suggesting that his attorney falsely represented to the FBI and grand jury that Trump did not have documents called for by the grand jury subpoena, B, directing defendant Waltine Nauta to move boxes of documents to conceal them from Trump's attorney, the FBI, and the grand jury. C, suggesting that his attorney hide or destroy documents called for by the grand jury subpoena. D, providing to the FBI and grand jury just some of the documents called for by the grand jury
Starting point is 00:06:01 subpoena while claiming that he was cooperating fully. E, causing a certification to be submitted to the FBI and grand jury, falsely representing that all documents called for by the grand jury subpoena had been produced, while knowing that, in fact, not all such documents had been produced. And F, attempting to delete security camera footage at the Mar-a-Lago club to conceal information from the FBI and grand jury. 8. As a result of Trump's retention of classified documents after his presidency and refusal to return them, hundreds of classified documents were not recovered by the United States government until 2022, as follows.
Starting point is 00:06:43 Ayah, on January 17, nearly one year after Trump left office, and after months of demands by the National Archives and Records Administration for Trump to provide all missing presidential records, Trump provided only 15 boxes, which contained 197 documents with classification markings. B. On June 3, in response to a grand jury subpoena demanding the production of all documents with classification markings, Trump's attorney provided to the FBI 38 more documents with classification markings. C. On August 8, pursuant to a court-authorized search warrant, the FBI recovered from Trump's office and a storage room at the Mar-a-Lago Club 102 more documents with classification markings.
Starting point is 00:07:32 Trump's co-conspirators. 9. Defendant Nauta was a member of the United States Navy stationed as a valet in the White House during Trump's presidency. Beginning in August 2021, NADA became an executive assistant in the office of Donald J. Trump and served as Trump's personal aide or body man. NADA reported to Trump, worked closely with Trump, and traveled with Trump. Beginning in January 2022, defendant Carlos de Oliveira was employed as the property manager at the Mar-a-Lago Club. Prior to holding the position of property manager, de Oliveira was employed as a valet at the Mar-a-Lago Club. The Mar-a-Lago Club. 11. The Mar-a-Lago Club was located on South Ocean Boulevard in Palm Beach, Florida, and included Trump's residence, more than 25 guest rooms, two ballrooms, a spa,
Starting point is 00:08:26 a gift store, exercise facilities, office space, and an outdoor pool and patio. As of January 2021, the Mar-a-Lago Club had hundreds of members and was staffed by more than 150 full-time, part-time, and temporary employees, 12. Between January 2021 and August 2022, the Mar-a-Lago Club hosted more than 150 social events, including weddings, movie premieres, and fundraisers that together drew tens of thousands of guests, 13. The United States Secret Service, the Secret Service, provided protection services to Trump and his family after he left office, including at the Mar-a-Lago Club, but it was not responsible for the protection of Trump's boxes or their contents. Trump did not inform the Secret Service
Starting point is 00:09:20 that he was storing boxes containing classified documents at the Mar-a-Lago Club. Classified Information 14. National security information was information owned by, produced by, produced for, and under the control of the United States government. Pursuant to Executive Order 12958, signed on April 17, 1995, as amended by Executive Order 13292 on March 25, 2003, and Executive Order 13526 on December 29, 2009, national security information was classified as top secret, secret, or confidential, as follows. A. Information was classified as top secret if the unauthorized disclosure of that information reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security that the original classification authority was able to identify or describe.
Starting point is 00:10:35 C. Information was classified as confidential if the unauthorized disclosure of that information reasonably could be expected to cause damage to the national security that the original classification authority was able to identify or describe. 15. The classification marking no foreign stood for not releasable to foreign nationals and denoted that dissemination of that information was limited to United States persons. 16. Classified information related to intelligence sources, methods, and analytical processes was designated as Sensitive Compartmented Information, SCI. SCI was to be processed, stored, used, or discussed in an Accredited Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, SGIF, and only individuals with the appropriate security clearance and additional SCI permissions were authorized to have access to such national security information. 17. When the vulnerability of or threat to specific
Starting point is 00:11:38 classified information was exceptional and the normal criteria for determining eligibility for access to classified information were insufficient to protect the information from unauthorized disclosure, the United States could establish Special Access Programs, SAP, to further protect the classified information. The number of these programs was to be kept to an absolute minimum and limited to programs in which the number of persons who ordinarily would have access would be reasonably small and commensurate with the objective of providing enhanced protection for the information involved. Only individuals with the appropriate
Starting point is 00:12:18 security clearance and additional SAP permissions were authorized to have access to such national security information, which was subject to enhanced handling and storage requirements. 18. Pursuant to Executive Order 13526, information classified at any level could be lawfully accessed only by persons determined by an appropriate United States government official to be eligible for access to classified information and who had signed an approved non-disclosure agreement, who received a security clearance, and who had a need to know the classified information. After his presidency, Trump was not authorized to possess
Starting point is 00:12:58 or retain classified documents. 19. Executive Order 13526 provided that a former president could obtain a waiver of the need-to-know requirement if the agency head or senior agency official, took appropriate steps to protect classified information from unauthorized disclosure or compromise and ensured that the information was safeguarded in a manner consistent with the order. Trump did not obtain any such waiver after his presidency. The Executive Branch Departments and Agencies, whose classified documents Trump retained after his presidency. 20. As part of his official duties as president, Trump received intelligence briefings from high-level United States government officials, including briefings from the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, senior White House officials, and a designated briefer. He regularly received a collection of classified
Starting point is 00:14:05 intelligence from the United States intelligence community, USIC, known as the President's Daily Brief, 21. The USIC's mission was to collect, analyze, and deliver foreign intelligence and counterintelligence information to America's leaders, including the president, policymakers, law enforcement, and the military, so they could make sound decisions to protect the United States. The USIC consisted of United States executive branch departments and agencies responsible for the conduct of foreign relations and the protection of national security. 22. After his presidency, Trump retained classified documents originated by or implicating the equities of
Starting point is 00:14:50 multiple USIC members and other executive branch departments and agencies, including the following, A, the Central Intelligence Agency, CIA. CIA was responsible for providing intelligence on foreign countries and global issues to the president and other policymakers to help them make national security decisions. B, the Department of Defense, DOD. DOD was responsible for providing the military forces needed to deter war and ensure national
Starting point is 00:15:20 security. Some of the executive branch agencies comprising the USIC were within DOD, C, the National Security Agency. The National Security Agency was a combat support agency within DOD and a member of the USIC responsible for foreign signals intelligence and cybersecurity. This included collecting, processing, and disseminating to United States policymakers and military leaders foreign intelligence derived from communications and information systems, protecting national security systems, and enabling computer network operations. D. The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency
Starting point is 00:16:00 The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency was a combat support agency within DOD responsible for the exploitation and analysis of imagery, imagery intelligence, and geospatial information in support of the national security objectives of the United States and the geospatial intelligence requirements of DOD, the Department of State, and other federal agencies. E. The National Reconnaissance Office. The National Reconnaissance Office was an agency within DOD responsible for developing, acquiring, launching, and operating space-based surveillance and reconnaissance systems that collected and delivered intelligence to enhance national security. F. The Department of Energy. The Department of Energy was responsible for maintaining a safe, secure, and effective nuclear deterrent to protect national
Starting point is 00:16:52 security, including ensuring the effectiveness of the United States' nuclear weapons stockpile without nuclear explosive testing. G, the Department of State and Bureau of Intelligence and Research. The Department of State was responsible for protecting and promoting United States security, prosperity, and democratic values. Within the Department of State, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research was a member of the USIC and responsible for providing intelligence to inform diplomacy and support United States diplomats. Trump's Public Statements on Classified Information, 23 As a candidate for President of the United States, Trump made the following public statements, among others, about classified information.
Starting point is 00:17:39 A. On August 18, 2016, Trump stated, In my administration, I'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law. B. On September 6, 2016, Trump stated, We also need to fight this battle by collecting intelligence and then protecting, protecting our classified secrets. We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified. C. On September 7, 2016, Trump stated, One of the first things we must do is to enforce all classification rules
Starting point is 00:18:21 and to enforce all laws relating to the handling of classified information. 24. As President of the United States, on July 26, 2018, Trump issued the following statement about classified information. As the head of the executive branch and commander-in-chief, I have a unique constitutional responsibility to protect the nation's classified information, including by controlling access to it. More broadly, the issue of a former executive branch official's security clearance raises larger questions about the practice of former officials maintaining access to our nation's most sensitive secrets long after their time in government has ended. Such access is particularly inappropriate when former officials have transitioned into highly partisan positions and seek to use real or
Starting point is 00:19:12 perceived access to sensitive information to validate their political attacks. Any access granted to our nation's secrets should be in furtherance of national, not personal, interests. Trump's Retention of documents after his presidency. 25. In January 2021, as he was preparing to leave the White House, Trump and his White House staff, including NADA, packed items, including some of Trump's boxes. Trump was personally involved in this process.
Starting point is 00:19:44 Trump caused his boxes, containing hundreds of classified documents, to be transported from the White House to the Mar-a-Lago Club, 26. From January through March 15, 2021, some of Trump's boxes were stored in the Mar-a-Lago Club's white and gold ballroom, in which events and gatherings took place. Trump's boxes were for a time stacked on the ballroom's stage. 27. In March 2021, Nada and others moved some of Trump's boxes from the White and Gold Ballroom to the business center at the Mar-a-Lago Club.
Starting point is 00:20:20 28. On April 5, 2021, an employee of the office of Donald J. Trump, Trump Employee 1, texted another employee of that office, Trump Employee 2, to ask whether Trump's boxes could be moved out of the business center to make room for staff to use it as an office. Trump Employee 2 replied, Whoa, okay, so POTUS specifically asked Walt for those boxes to be in the business center because they are his papers. Later that day, Trump Employee 1 and Trump Employee 2 exchanged the following text messages. Trump Employee. Two, we can definitely make it work if we move his papers into the lake room.
Starting point is 00:21:02 Trump Employee. One, there is still a little room in the shower where his other stuff is. Is it only his papers he cares about? There's some other stuff in there that are not papers. Could that go to storage, or does he want everything in there on the property, Trump employee. Two, yes, anything that's not the beautiful mind paper boxes can definitely go to storage. Want to take a look at the space and start moving tomorrow, AM? 29.
Starting point is 00:21:31 After the text exchange between Trump Employee 1 and Trump Employee 2 in April 2021, some of Trump's boxes were moved from the business center to a bathroom and shower in the Mar-a-Lago Club's lake room. 30. In May 2021, Trump directed that a storage room on the ground floor of the Mar-a-Lago Club, the storage room, be cleaned out so that it could be used to store his boxes. The hallway leading to the storage room could be reached from multiple outside entrances, including one accessible from the Mar-a-Lago Club pool patio through a doorway that was often kept open.
Starting point is 00:22:09 The storage room was near the liquor supply closet, linen room, lock shop, and various other rooms. 31. On June 24, 2021, Trump's boxes that were in the lake room were moved to the storage room. After the move, there were more than 80 boxes in the storage room, 32. On December 7, 2021, NADA found several of Trump's boxes fallen and their contents spilled onto the floor of the storage room,
Starting point is 00:22:40 including a document marked, Secret, which denoted that the information in the document was releasable only to the Five Eyes Intelligence Alliance, consisting of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Nauta texted Trump employee two, I opened the door and found this. Nauta also attached two photographs he took of the spill. Trump employee 2 replied, oh no, oh no, and I'm sorry POTUS had my phone. One of the photographs Nauta texted to Trump employee 2 is depicted below with the visible classified information redacted. Trump's unlawful retention of this document is charged in count eight of this superseding indictment. Trump's Disclosures of Classified Information in Private Meetings, 33. In May 2021, Trump caused
Starting point is 00:23:32 some of his boxes to be brought to his summer residence at the Bedminster Club. Like the Mar-a-Lago Club, after Trump's presidency, the Bedminster Club was not an authorized location for the storage, possession, review, display, or discussion of classified documents. 34. On July 21, 2021, when he was no longer president, Trump gave an interview in his office at the Bedminster Club to a writer and a publisher in connection with a then-forthcoming book. Two members of Trump's staff also attended the interview, which was recorded with Trump's knowledge and consent. Before the interview, the media had published reports that,
Starting point is 00:24:13 at the end of Trump's term as president, a senior military official, the senior military official, purportedly feared that Trump might order an attack on country A and that the senior military official advised Trump against doing so. 35. Upon greeting the writer, publisher, and his two staff members, Trump stated, look what I found. This was the senior military official's plan of attack. Read it and it shows. It's interesting. Later in the interview, Trump engaged in the following exchange. Trump. Well, with the senior military official. Uh, let me see that. I'll show you an example.
Starting point is 00:24:53 He said that I wanted to attack country A. Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers. This thing just came up. Look, this was him. They presented me this. This is off the record, but they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him. Writer, wow, Trump. We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me. This was him. All sorts of stuff. Pages long. Look. Wait a minute. Let's see here. Staffer, laughter. Yeah? Trump. Except it is, like, highly confidential. Staffer. Yeah? Laughter.
Starting point is 00:25:28 Trump. Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack and... By the way, isn't that incredible? Staffer. Yeah?
Starting point is 00:25:36 Trump. I was just thinking, because we were talking about it. And you know, he said he wanted to attack country A. And what? This was done by the military and given to me. Uh, I think we can probably, right? See, as president, I could have declass's two staff members did not have security clearances or any need to know any classified information about a plan of attack on Country A. The document that Trump possessed and showed on July 21, 2021, is charged as Count 32 in this superseding indictment. 36. In August or September 2021, when he was no longer president, Trump met in his office at the Bedminster Club with a representative of his political action committee, the PAC representative. During the meeting, Trump commented that an ongoing military
Starting point is 00:26:40 operation in country B was not going well. Trump showed the PAC representative a classified map of Country B and told the P.C. representative that he should not be showing the map to the P.C. representative and to not get too close. The P.C. representative did not have a security clearance or any need-to-know classified information about the military operation. 37. On February 16, 2017, four years before Trump's disclosures of classified information set forth above, Trump said at a press conference, The first thing I thought of when I heard about it is,
Starting point is 00:27:21 how does the press get this information that's classified? How do they do it? You know why? Because it's an illegal process, and the press should be ashamed of themselves. But more importantly, the people that gave out the information to the press should be ashamed of themselves. Really ashamed. Trump's Production of 15 Cardboard Boxes to the National Archives and Records Administration. 38. Beginning in May 2021, the National Archives and Records Administration, NARA, which was responsible for archiving presidential records, repeatedly demanded that Trump tum over presidential records that he had kept after his presidency.
Starting point is 00:28:00 On multiple occasions. Beginning in June, Nara warned Trump through his representatives that if he did not comply, it would refer the matter of the missing records to the Department of Justice. 39. Between November 2021
Starting point is 00:28:15 and January 2022, NADA and Trump Employee 2 at Trump's direction brought boxes from the storage room to Trump's residence for Trump to review. 40. On November 12, 2021, Trump Employee 2 provided Trump a photograph of his boxes in the storage room by taping it to one of the boxes that Trump Employee 2 had placed in Trump's residence.
Starting point is 00:28:39 Trump Employee 2 provided Trump the photograph so that Trump could see how many of his boxes were stored in the storage room. The photograph shown below depicted a wall of the storage room against which dozens of Trump's boxes were stacked. 41. On November 17, 2021, NADA texted Trump Employee 2 about the photograph Trump Employee 2 had provided to Trump, stating, He mentioned about a picture of the boxes he wants me to see it. Trump Employee 2 replied, Calling you shortly, 42. On November 25, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted Nada about Trump's review of the contents of his boxes, asking, Has he mentioned boxes to you? I delivered some, but I think he may need more. Could you ask if he'd like more in Pine Hall?
Starting point is 00:29:30 Pine Hall was an entry room in Trump's residence. Nauta replied in three successive text messages. Nothing about boxes yet. He has one he's working on in Pine Hall, knocked out two boxes yesterday. 43. On November 29, 2021, Trump employee 2 texted Nada asking, next you are on property, no rush, could you help me bring four more boxes up? Nada replied, yes, of course, 44. On December 29th, 2021, Trump employee 2 texted a Trump representative who was in contact with Nara. Box answer will be wrenched out of him today. Promise. The next day, Trump Representative 1 replied in two successive text messages.
Starting point is 00:30:15 Hey, just checking on boxes. Would love to have a number to them today. Trump Employee 2 spoke to Trump and then responded a few hours later in two successive text messages. 12 is his number, 45. On January 13, 2022, NADA texted Trump Employee 2 about Trump's tracking of boxes, stating, he's tracking the boxes, more to follow today on whether he wants to go through more today or tomorrow. Trump Employee 2 replied, thank you. 46. On January 1, S, 2022, NADA sent Trump employee 2 four successive text messages. One thing he asked was for new covers for the boxes for Monday morning. Can we get new box
Starting point is 00:31:00 covers before giving these to them on Monday? They have too much writing on them. I marked too much. Trump employee 2 replied, yes, I will get that, 47. On January 17, 2022, Trump employee 2 and NADA gathered 15 boxes from Trump's residence, loaded the boxes in NADA's car, and took them to a commercial truck for delivery to Nara, 48. When interviewed by the FBI in May 2022 regarding the location and movement of boxes before the production to Nara, Nauta made false and misleading statements as set forth in count 38 of this superseding indictment, including a falsely stating that he was not aware of trump's boxes being brought to trump's residence for his review before trump provided 15 boxes to nara in january 2022
Starting point is 00:31:52 b falsely stating that he did not know how the boxes that he and trump employee 2 brought from trump's residence to the commercial truck for delivery to nARA on January 17, 2022, had gotten to the residence, and C. When asked whether he knew where Trump's boxes had been stored before they were in Trump's residence and whether they had been in a secure or locked location, NADA falsely responded, I wish, I wish I could tell you, I don't know. I don't. I honestly just don't know. 49. When the 15 boxes that Trump had provided reached NARA in January 2022, NARA reviewed the contents and determined that 14 of the boxes contained documents with classification markings. Specifically, as the FBI later determined,
Starting point is 00:32:46 the boxes contained 197 documents with classification markings, of which 98 were marked secret, 30 were marked top secret, and the remainder were marked confidential. Some of those documents also contained SCI and SAP markings. 50. On February 9, 2022, NARA referred the discovery of classified documents in Trump's boxes to the Department of Justice for investigation. The FBI and Grand Jury Investigations. 51. On March 30, 2022, the FBI opened a criminal investigation. 52. On April 26, 2022, a federal grand jury opened an investigation. The defendant's concealment of boxes. 53. On May 11, 2022, the grand jury issued a subpoena, the May 11 subpoena, to the office of Donald J. Trump, requiring the production of all documents
Starting point is 00:33:45 with classification markings in the possession, custody, or control of Trump or the office of Donald J. Trump. Two attorneys representing Trump, Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2, informed Trump of the May 11 subpoena, and he authorized Trump attorney 1 to accept service, 54. On May 22nd, 2022, Nauta entered the storage room at 3.47 p.m. and left approximately 34 minutes later, carrying one of Trump's boxes, 55. On May 23rd, 2022, Trump met with Trump attorney 1 and Trump attorney 2 at the Mar-a-Lago Club to discuss the response to the May 11th subpoena. Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 told Trump that they needed to search for documents that would be responsive to the subpoena and provide a certification that
Starting point is 00:34:38 there had been compliance with the subpoena. Trump, in sum and substance, made the following statements, among others, as memorialized by Trump Attorney 1. I don't want anybody looking. I don't want anybody looking through my boxes. I really don't. I don't want you looking through my boxes. B. Well, what if we, what happens if we just don't respond at all or don't play ball with them? C. Wouldn't it be better if we just told them we don't have anything here?
Starting point is 00:35:05 D. Well, look, isn't it better if there are no documents? 56. While meeting with Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 on May 23rd, Trump, in sum and substance, told the following story, as memorialized by Trump Attorney 1. Attorney, he was great. He did a great job. You know what? He said he said that it, that it was him. That he was the one who deleted all of her emails, the 30,000 emails, because they basically dealt with her scheduling and her going to the gym and her having beauty appointments. And he was great. And he, so she didn't get in any trouble because he said that he was the one who deleted them.
Starting point is 00:35:43 Trump related the story more than once that day, 57. On May 23rd, Trump also confirmed his understanding with Trump Attorney 1 that Trump Attorney 1 would return to the Mar-a-Lago Club on June 2nd to search for any documents with classification markings to produce in response to the May 11th subpoena. Trump attorney one made it clear to Trump that Trump attorney one would conduct the search for responsive documents by looking through Trump's boxes that had been transported from the White House and remained in storage at the Mar-a-Lago Club. Trump indicated that he wanted to be at the Mar-a-Lago Club when Trump attorney one returned to review his boxes on June 2nd, and that Trump would change his summer travel plans to do so.
Starting point is 00:36:31 Trump told Trump Attorney 2 that Trump Attorney 2 did not need to be present for the review of boxes. 58. Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 on May 23, Trump delayed his departure from the Mar-a-Lago Club to the Bedminster Club for the summer so that he would be present at the Mar-a-Lago Club on June 2 when Trump Attorney 1 returned to review the boxes. 59. Between Trump's May 23 meeting with Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 to discuss the May 11 subpoena and June 2 when Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 to discuss the May 11th subpoena, and June 2nd, when Trump Attorney 1 returned to the Mar-a-Lago Club to review the boxes in the storage room, NADA removed, at Trump's direction, a total of approximately 64 boxes from the storage room and brought them to Trump's residence, as set forth below, A. On May 24, 2022, between 5.30 p.m. and 5.38 p.m.,
Starting point is 00:37:29 Nada removed three boxes from the storage room, B. On May 30, 2022, at 9.08 a.m., Trump and Nada spoke by phone for approximately 30 seconds. Between 10.02 a.m. and 11.51 a.m., Nauta removed a total of approximately 50 boxes from the storage room. See. On May 30, 2022, at 12.33 p.m., a Trump family member texted Nauta. Good afternoon, Walt. Happy Memorial Day. I saw you put boxes to POTUS room. Just FYI and I will tell him as well. Not sure how many he wants to take on Friday on the plane. We will not have a room for them. Plane will be full with luggage. Thank you, Nauta replied. Good afternoon, ma'am. Thank you so much. I think he wanted to pick from them. I don't imagine him wanting to take the boxes. He told me to put them in the room and that he was going to talk to you about them. D. On June 1st, 2022, beginning at 12.52 p.m., NADA removed
Starting point is 00:38:32 approximately 11 boxes from the storage room. 60. On June 1st, 2022, Trump spoke with Trump Attorney 1 by phone and asked whether Trump Attorney 1 was coming to the Mar-a-Lago club the next day and for exactly what purpose. Trump attorney one reminded Trump that Trump attorney one was going to review the boxes that had been transported from the White House and remained in storage at the Mar-a-Lago club so that Trump attorney one could have a custodian of records certify that the May 11th subpoena had been complied with fully, 61. On June 2nd, 2022, the day that Trump Attorney 1 was scheduled to review Trump's boxes in the storage room, Trump spoke with Nauta on the phone at 9.29 a.m. for approximately 24 seconds, 62. Later that day, between 12.33pm and 12.52pm, Nauta and de Oliveira moved approximately 30 boxes from Trump's residence to the storage room, 63. In sum, between May 23, 2022 and June 2, 2022, before Trump Attorney One's review of Trump's boxes in the storage room,
Starting point is 00:39:47 NADA, at Trump's direction, moved approximately 64 boxes from the storage room to Trump's residence, and NADA and de Oliveira brought to the storage room only approximately 30 boxes. Neither Trump nor NADA informed Trump Attorney One of this information. The False Certification to the FBI and the grand jury, 64. On the afternoon of June 2, 2022, as Trump had been informed, Trump attorney one arrived at the Mar-a-Lago Club to review Trump's boxes to look for documents with classification markings in response to the May 11th subpoena. Trump met with Trump attorney one before Trump attorney one conducted the review. NADA escorted Trump
Starting point is 00:40:31 attorney one to the storage room, 65. Between 3.53 p.m. and 6.23 p.m., Trump attorney one reviewed the contents of Trump's boxes in the storage room. Trump attorney one located 38 documents with classification markings inside the boxes, which Trump attorney one removed and placed in a Redwell folder. Trump attorney one contacted NADA and asked him to bring clear duct tape to the storage room, which NADA did. Trump attorney one used the clear duct tape to seal the Red Weld folder with the documents with classification markings inside. 66. After Trump Attorney 1 finished sealing the Red Weld folder containing the documents with classification markings that he had found inside Trump's boxes, Nauta took Trump Attorney 1 to a dining room in the Mar-a-Lago Club to meet with Trump.
Starting point is 00:41:24 After Trump Attorney 1 confirmed that he was finished with his search of the storage room, Trump asked, Did you find anything? Is it bad? Good? 67. Trump and Trump Attorney 1 then discussed what to do with the red-weld folder containing documents with classification markings and whether Trump attorney one should bring them to his hotel room and put them in a safe there during that conversation Trump made a plucking motion as memorialized by Trump attorney one he made a funny motion as though well okay why don't you take them with you to your hotel room and if there's anything really bad in there, like, you know, pluck it out. And that was the motion that he made.
Starting point is 00:42:08 He didn't say that. 68. That evening, Trump attorney one contacted the Department of Justice and requested that an FBI agent meet him at the Mar-a-Lago Club the next day, June 3rd, so that he could turn over the documents responsive to the May 11th subpoena, 69. Also that evening, Trump Attorney 1 contacted another Trump attorney, Trump Attorney 3, and asked her if she would come to the Mar-a-Lago Club the next morning to act as a custodian of records and sign a certification regarding the search for documents with classification markings in response to the May 11th subpoena. Trump attorney 3, who had no role in the review of Trump's boxes in the storage room, agreed. 70. The next day, on June 3rd, 2022, at Trump
Starting point is 00:42:58 attorney 1's request, Trump attorney 3 signed a certification as the custodian of records for the office of Donald J. Trump and took it to the Mar-a-Lago club to provide it to the Department of Justice and FBI. In the certification, Trump attorney three, who performed no search of Trump's boxes, had not reviewed the May 11th subpoena and had not reviewed the contents of the Redweld folder, stated, among other things, that, based upon the information that had been provided to her, a diligent search was conducted of the boxes that were moved from the White House to Florida.
Starting point is 00:43:34 B. This search was conducted after receipt of the subpoena in order to locate any and all documents that are responsive to the subpoena, and C. Any and all responsive documents accompany this certification. 71. These statements were false because, among other reasons, Trump had directed NADA to move boxes before Trump Attorney 1's June 2nd review, so that many boxes were not searched and many documents responsive to the May 11th subpoena could not be found, and in fact were not found, by Trump Attorney 1. 72. Shortly after Trump Attorney 3 executed the false certification, on June 3, 2022,
Starting point is 00:44:22 Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 3 met at the Mar-a-Lago Club with personnel from the Department of Justice and FBI. Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 3 turned over the red-weld folder containing documents with classification markings, as well as the false certification signed by Trump Attorney 3 as custodian of records. Trump, who had delayed his departure from the Mar-a-Lago Club, joined Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 3 for some of the meeting. Trump claimed to the Department of Justice and FBI that he was an open book. 73. Earlier that same day, Nauda, de Oliveira, and others loaded several of Trump's boxes along with other items on the aircraft that flew Trump and his family north for the summer.
Starting point is 00:45:03 The Attempt to Delete Security security camera footage, 74. On June 3, 2022, when FBI agents were at the Mar-a-Lago Club to collect the documents with classification markings from Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 3, the agents observed that there were surveillance cameras located near the storage room, 75. On June 22, 2022, the Department of Justice emailed an attorney for Trump's business organization a draft grand jury subpoena requiring the production of certain security camera footage from the Mar-a-Lago Club, including footage from cameras on the ground floor, basement, where the storage room was located, 76. On June 23, 2022, at 8.46 p.m., Trump called De Oliveira and they spoke for approximately
Starting point is 00:45:55 24 minutes, 77. On Friday, June 24, 2022, the Department of Justice emailed the attorney for Trump's business organization the final grand jury subpoena, which required the production of any and all surveillance records, videos, images, photographs, and or CCTV from internal cameras at certain locations at the Mar-a-Lago Club, including on the ground floor, basement,uary 10th 2022 to june 24th 2022 78 that same day june 24th 2022 at 1 25 p.m trump attorney one spoke with trump by phone regarding the subpoena for security camera footage at 3 44 p., Nauta received a text message from a co-worker, Trump Employee 3, indicating that Trump wanted to see Nauta. Less than two hours later, Nauta, who was scheduled to travel with Trump to Illinois the next day, changed his travel schedule and
Starting point is 00:46:59 began to make arrangements to go to Palm Beach, Florida instead. 79. Nada provided inconsistent explanations to colleagues for his sudden travel to Florida. At 7.14 p.m. on June 24th, he texted one person that he would not be traveling with Trump the next day because he had a family emergency and used shushing emojis. At 9.48 p.m. that night, he texted a Secret Service agent that he had to check on a family member in Florida. And after he arrived in Florida on June 25th, he texted the same Secret Service agent that he was in Florida working, 80. Around the same time on June 24th that Nauta was making his travel plans to go to Florida, Nauta and de Oliveira contacted Trump Employee 4,
Starting point is 00:47:46 who was the Director of Information Technology, IT, at the Mar-a-Lago Club, as follows. A. At 5.02 p.m., NADA sent text messages to Trump Employee 4 asking, Hey bro, you around this weekend? B. At 5.05 p.m., Nada texted de Oliveira asking, hey brother, you working today? De Oliveira responded, yes, I just left. Nada then called de Oliveira and they spoke for approximately two minutes. C. At 5.09 p.m., Trump employee 4 texted a response to Nada, I am local, entertaining some family that came to visit. What's up? Nada responded to Trump employee four. Okay, cool. No biggie, just wanted to see if you were around. Enjoy, bro. D. At 6.56 p.m., DeOliveira texted Trump. Employee four, hey, buddy, how are you?
Starting point is 00:48:42 Walter call me early, said it was trying to get in touch with you. I guess he's coming down tomorrow. I guess needs you for something. Trump Employee 4 responded, he reached out, but he didn't say what he wanted. I told him I was local, but entertaining some family that came from NYC this weekend. He told me to no worries. Ah, at 6.58 PM,m., Trump employee 4 texted Nada, Bro, if you need me, I can get away for a few. Just let me know.
Starting point is 00:49:10 Nada responded, Sounds good. Thank you. 81. On Saturday, June 25, 2022, Nada traveled from Bedminster, New Jersey, to Palm Beach, Florida. Prior to Nada's trip, deivera told a valet at the mar-a-lago club trump employee 5 that nada was coming down de olivera asked trump employee 5 not to tell anyone that nada was coming down because nada wanted the trip to remain secret de olivera also told trump employee 5 that nada wanted DeOliveira to talk to Trump Employee 4 to see how long camera footage was stored.
Starting point is 00:49:48 82. Shortly after arriving in Palm Beach on the evening of June 25, NADA went to the Mar-a-Lago Club and met with DeOliveira at 5.46 p.m. At the Mar-a-Lago Club, NADA and and de Oliveira went to the security guard booth, where surveillance video is displayed on monitors, walked with a flashlight through the tunnel where the storage room was located, and observed and pointed out surveillance cameras. 83. On Monday, June 27, 2022, at 9.48 a.m., de Oliveira walked to the IT office where Trump Employee 4 was working with another employee in the IT department. DeOliveira requested that Trump Employee 4 step away from the office so that DeOliveira and Trump Employee 4 could talk.
Starting point is 00:50:36 84. At 9.49 a.m., Trump Employee 4 and DeOliveira left the area of the IT office together and walked through a basement tunnel. De Oliveira took Trump employee 4 to a small room known as an audio closet near the white and gold ballroom. Once inside the audio closet, de Oliveira and Trump employee 4 had the following exchange. A. De Oliveira told Trump employee 4 that their conversation should remain between the two of them. B. D'Oliveira asked Trump employee 4 how many days the server retained footage. Trump employee 4 responded that he believed it was approximately 45 days. C. D'Oliveira told Trump employee 4 that the boss wanted the server deleted.
Starting point is 00:51:23 Trump employee 4 responded that he would not know how to do that and that he did not believe that he would have the rights to do that. Trump employee 4 told de Oliveira that de Oliveira would have to reach out to another employee who was a supervisor of security for Trump's business organization. De Oliveira then insisted to trump employee 4 that the boss wanted the server deleted and asked what are we going to do 85 at 10 14 a.m de olivera texted nada who was still in florida hey buddy are you working today de olivera then called nada at 10 15 a.m and they spoke for approximately one minute 86 later that day at 106 at 1.06 p.m., Nada texted De Oliveira, who was at the Mar-a-Lago Club, on my way to you. Between 1.31 p.m. and 1.50 p.m.,
Starting point is 00:52:15 De Oliveira walked through the bushes on the northern edge of the Mar-a-Lago Club property to meet with Nada on the adjacent property, then walked back to the IT office that he had visited that morning, and then walked again through the bushes on the northern edge of the Mar-a-Lago Club property to meet with NADA on the adjacent property. 87. At 3.55 p.m., Trump called de Oliveira and they spoke for approximately three and a half minutes. The court authorized search of the Mar-a-Lago Club, 88. In July 2022, the FBI and grand jury obtained and reviewed surveillance video from the Mar-a-Lago Club showing the movement of boxes set forth above, 89. On August 8, 2022, the FBI executed a court-authorized search warrant at the Mar-a-Lago
Starting point is 00:53:06 Club. The search warrant authorized the FBI to search for and seize, among other things, all documents with classification markings. 90. During the execution of the warrant at the Mar-a-Lago Club, the FBI seized 102 documents with classification markings in Trump's office and the storage room, 91. Just over two weeks after the FBI discovered classified documents in the storage room and Trump's office, on August 26, 2022, NADA called Trump Employee 5 and said words to the effect of, Someone just wants to make sure Carlos is good. In response, Trump Employee 5 told NADA that de Oliveira was loyal and that de Oliveira would not do anything to affect his relationship with Trump. That same day, at NADA's request,
Starting point is 00:53:58 Trump Employee 5 confirmed in a signal chat group with NADA and the PAC representative that de Oliveira was loyal. That same day, Trump called de Oliveira and told de Oliveira that Trump would get de Oliveira an attorney. Counts 1 through 32, 92. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 93. On or about the date set forth in the table below, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida. And elsewhere, the defendant, Donald J. Trump, having unauthorized possession of, access to, and control over documents relating to the national defense, did willfully retain the documents and failed to deliver them to the
Starting point is 00:54:45 officer and employee of the United States entitled to receive them. That is, Trump, without authorization, retained at the Mar-a-Lago Club documents relating to the national defense, including the following. Count 33. Conspiracy to obstruct justice. 94. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. The Conspiracy and Its Objects 95 From on or about May 11, 2022 through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County,
Starting point is 00:55:20 in the Southern District of Florida and elsewhere, the defendants, Donald J. Trump, Waltine Nauta, and Carlos de Oliveira did knowingly combine, conspire, confederate, and agree with each other and with others known and unknown to the grand jury to engage in misleading conduct toward another person and corruptly persuade another person to withhold a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding in violation of 18 U.S.C. To corruptly persuade another person with intent to cause and induce any person to alter, destroy, mutilate, and conceal an object with intent to impair the object's integrity and availability for use in an official proceeding
Starting point is 00:56:05 in violation of 18 U.S.C., and to corruptly alter, destroy, mutilate, and conceal a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding in violation of 18 U.S.C. The Purpose of the Conspiracy, 96. The purpose of the conspiracy was for Trump to keep classified documents he had taken with him from the White House and to hide and conceal them from a federal grand jury. The manner and means of the conspiracy, 97. The manner and means by which the defendant sought to accomplish the objects and purpose of the conspiracy included, among other things, the following. A. Suggesting that Trump Attorney 1 falsely represent to the FBI and the grand jury that Trump did not have documents called for by the May 11th subpoena.
Starting point is 00:56:56 B. Moving boxes of documents to conceal them from Trump Attorney 1, the FBI, and the grand jury. C. Suggesting that Trump attorney one hide or destroy documents called for by the May 11th subpoena, D, providing to the FBI and grand jury just some of the documents called for by the May 11th subpoena while Trump claimed he was cooperating fully, E, causing a false certification to be submitted to the FBI and grand jury representing that all documents with classification markings had been produced, when in fact, they had not. F. Making false and misleading statements to the FBI, and G. Attempting to delete security camera footage from the Mar-a-Lago Club to conceal the footage from the
Starting point is 00:57:38 FBI and Grand Jury. Count 34. Withholding a document or record. 98. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 99. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida and elsewhere, the defendants, Donald J. Trump and Waltine Nauta, did knowingly engage in misleading conduct toward another person, and knowingly corruptly persuade and attempt to persuade another person with intent to cause and induce any person to withhold a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding, that is, 1. Trump attempted to persuade Trump Attorney 1 to hide and conceal documents from a federal grand jury, and 2. Trump and NADA misled Trump Attorney 1 by moving boxes that contained documents with classification markings so that Trump Attorney 1 would not find the documents and produce them to a federal grand jury. Count 35. Corruptly concealing a document or record.
Starting point is 00:58:48 100. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 101. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida and elsewhere, the defendants, Donald J. Trump and Waltine Nauta, did corruptly conceal a record, document, and other object and attempted to do so with the intent to impair the object's integrity and availability for use in an official proceeding. That is, Trump and Nauta hid and concealed boxes that contained documents with classification markings from Trump Attorney
Starting point is 00:59:31 1 so that Trump Attorney 1 would not find the documents and produce them to a federal grand jury. Count 36. Concealing a document in a federal investigation. 102. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 103. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County in the Southern District of Florida and elsewhere, the defendants, Donald J. Trump and Waltine Nauta, did knowingly conceal, cover up, and elsewhere, the defendants, Donald J. Trump and Waltine Nauta, did knowingly conceal,
Starting point is 01:00:13 cover up, falsify, and make a false entry in any record, document, and tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, and influence the investigation and proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of a department and agency of the United States and in relation to and contemplation of any such matter. That is, during a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, 1. Trump and Nauta hid, concealed, and covered up from the FBI Trump's continued possession of documents with classification markings at the Mar-a-Lago Club, and two, Trump caused a false certification to be submitted to the FBI. Count 37, scheme to conceal. 104. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 105. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County,
Starting point is 01:01:09 in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, Donald J. Trump and Waltine Nauta, in a matter within the jurisdiction of the judicial branch and executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully falsify, conceal, and cover up, by any trick, scheme, and device, a material fact. That is, during a federal grand jury investigation and a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, Trump and Nauta hid and concealed from the grand jury and the FBI, Trump's continued possession of documents with classification markings. Count 38. False statements and representations. 106. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 107. On or about June 3, 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida and elsewhere,
Starting point is 01:02:07 the defendant, Donald J. Trump, in a matter within the jurisdiction of the judicial branch and the executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully make and cause to be made a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement and representation. That is, during a federal grand jury investigation and a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, Trump caused the following false statements and representations to be made to the grand jury and the FBI in a sworn certification executed by Trump attorney 3. A. A diligent search was conducted of the boxes that were moved from the White House to Florida. B. This search was conducted after receipt of the subpoena in order to locate any and all documents that are responsive to the subpoena. And C. Any
Starting point is 01:02:59 and all responsive documents accompany this certification. 108. The statements and representations set forth above were false, as Trump knew, because Trump had directed that boxes be removed from the storage room before Trump attorney one conducted the June 2nd, 2022 search for documents with classification markings so that Trump attorney one's search would not and did not include all of Trump's boxes that were removed from the White House. Trump Attorney 1's search would not and did not locate all documents responsive to the May 11th subpoena, and all responsive documents were not provided to the FBI search on August 8, 2020. Count 39. False statements and representations. 109. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference.
Starting point is 01:04:05 110. On May 26, 2022, NADA participated in a voluntary interview with the FBI. During the interview, the FBI explained to NADA that the FBI was investigating how classified documents had been kept at the Mar-a-Lago Club, and the FBI asked Nauta questions about the location and movement of Trump's boxes before Trump provided 15 boxes to NARA on January 17, 2022. Nauta was represented by counsel, and the FBI advised Nauta that the interview was voluntary and that he could leave at any time. The FBI also advised Nauta that it was a criminal offense to lie to the FBI. The interview was recorded. 111. On or about May 26, 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendant, Waltine Nauta,
Starting point is 01:05:00 in a matter within the jurisdiction of the executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully make a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement and representation. That is, in a voluntary interview during a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, Nauta was asked the following questions and gave the following false answers. Question. Does any, are you aware of any boxes being brought to his home, his suite? Answer, no. Question.
Starting point is 01:05:32 All right. So, so to the best of your knowledge, you're saying that those boxes that you brought onto the truck, first time you ever laid eyes on them, was just the day of when Trump employee two needed you to answer correct question to take them okay question in knowing that we're trying to track the life of these boxes and where
Starting point is 01:05:52 they could have been kept and stored and all that kind of stuff answer question do you have any information that could that would that could help us understand, like, where they were kept, how they were kept, were they secured, were they locked? Something that makes the intelligence community feel better about these things, you know? Answer. I wish, I wish I could tell you. I don't know. I don't, I honestly just don't know. Question. And what so? So you only saw the 15 boxes, 15, 17 boxes? Answer, yes. Question, the day of the move? Even they just showed up that day? Answer, they were in Pine Hall.
Starting point is 01:06:34 Trump employee two just asked me, hey, can we move some boxes? And I was like, okay. Question, so you didn't know, had no idea how they got there before? Answer, no, 112. The underscored statements and representations above were false, as Nada knew, because 1. Nada did in fact know that the boxes in Pine Hall had come from the storage room, as Nada himself, with the assistance of Trump employee 2, had moved the boxes from the storage room to Pine Hall, and 2. NADA had observed the boxes in and moved them to various locations at the Mar-a-Lago Club. Count 40. Altering, destroying, mutilating,
Starting point is 01:07:12 or concealing an object. 113. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 114. From on or about June 22, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants, Donald J. Trump, Waltine Nauta, and Carlos de Oliveira, did knowingly corruptly persuade and attempt to persuade another person, with intent to cause and induce any person to alter, destroy, mutilate, and conceal an object, with intent to impair the object's integrity and availability for use in an official proceeding. That is, Trump, Nauta, and de Oliveira requested that Trump employee 4 delete security camera footage at the Mar-a-Lago Club to prevent the
Starting point is 01:08:05 footage from being provided to a federal grand jury. Count 41. Corruptly altering, destroying, mutilating, or concealing a document, record, or other object. 115. The general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference, 116. From on or about June 22, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida and elsewhere, the defendants, Donald J. Trump, Waltine Nauta, and Carlos de Oliveira, did corruptly alter, destroy, mutilate, and conceal a record, document, and other object, and attempted to do so, with the intent to impair the object's integrity and availability for use in an official proceeding. That is, Trump, Nauta, and de Oliveira requested that Trump employee
Starting point is 01:08:59 four delete security camera footage at the Mar-a-Lago Club to prevent the footage from being provided to a federal grand jury. Count 42, false statements and representations. 117, the general allegations of this superseding indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference. 118. On January 13, 2023, de Oliveira participated in a voluntary interview with the FBI at de Oliveira's residence. During the interview, the FBI explained to de Oliveira that the FBI was investigating how classified documents had been kept at the Mar-a-Lago Club, and the FBI asked de Oliveira questions about the location and movement of Trump's boxes and other items. De Oliveira was advised by the FBI that the interview was voluntary and that he could tell the
Starting point is 01:09:53 agents to leave at any time. The FBI also advised de 119. On or about January 13, 2023, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendant, Carlos de Oliveira, in a matter within the jurisdiction of the executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully make a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement and representation. That is, in a voluntary interview during a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, de Oliveira was asked the following questions and gave the following false answers. Question. When, after the end of the presidency, boxes arrived to Mar-a-Lago, were you part of any group to help? Answer no. No. Question. Unload them and move them? Answer.
Starting point is 01:10:54 No. Question. Do you, were you, do you even know, like, or were you even there or aware that boxes were, answer, no. Question. Like, all this stuff was being moved in? Answer, never saw anything. Question, okay. Answer, yeah. And then, question, even his personal stuff like his clothes. Answer, never. Question, and furniture, nothing?
Starting point is 01:11:16 Answer, never saw nothing. Question, okay. So you don't know where items would have been stored as soon as he moved back to Mar-a-Lago? Answer, no, 120. The underscored statements and representations above were false, as de Oliveira knew, because de Oliveira had personally observed and helped move Trump's boxes when they arrived at the Mar-a-Lago club in January 2021. Jack Smith, Special Counsel, United States Department of Justice.
Starting point is 01:11:47 This has been a Bulwark production. To get access to all of The Bulwark's coverage, including newsletters, podcasts, and live events, become a member of Bulwark Plus at thebulwark.com. Thanks for listening.

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