The Bulwark Podcast - BONUS EPISODE with Doug Emhoff: We Have a Mission

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

The second gentleman says Kamala has really stepped it up for this abbreviated campaign, and is showing the country the most badass version of herself. He also promised that nothing will distract them from focusing on winning the election. Plus, Trump didn't know what hit him in the debate.  Doug Emhoff joins Tim Miller for a very special bonus episode.

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off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com. This is an ad by BetterHelp Online Therapy. October is the season for wearing masks and costumes, but some of us feel like we wear a mask and hide more often than we want to. At work, in social settings, around our family. Therapy can help you learn to accept all parts of yourself so you can stop hiding and take off the mask. Because masks should be for Halloween fun, not for your emotions. Therapy is a great tool for facing your fears and finding ways to overcome them. If you're thinking of starting therapy, but you're afraid of what you might uncover, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient,

flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast, a bonus edition.

I am here with the second gentleman of the United States of America. It's Doug Emhoff. How you doing? Hey, Tim. It's good to see you again, man. It's good to see you again. What are we calling the second gentleman? Sir? Is it a sir story like Trump? Or is it can I just call you Doug? Or is it Godus? What do we go by? You can do SG. We can keep it more casual since we've met. But just not Dougougie only only she can call me dougie okay i promise that it won't escape my lips i want to start here i've had a little shtick that i was

working on for the last couple weeks which was which i think is maybe true the best shtick is true that the only person that was having a better time on debate night than i was was the second gentleman himself as g watching that all come into form. So I'm curious, I know that you love your wife and are proud of her and admire her, but she had to exceed even your expectations because the watching experience is sometimes more nervous than the participating. So what was that like for you? Yeah, so I was around her a little bit because I was doing events and we were in Pittsburgh or she was in Pittsburgh for a couple of days for the prep and I was kind of in and out

doing events. So I was actually not around her a lot. They gave us like an hour to kind of have couple of time. And that turned out to be a nice romantic stroll on a tarmac of an Air Force base. But being around her, I could just sense that she was just really ready because she was calm. She wasn't saying much and she looked very focused and determined, a lot like she looked before her DNC speech. So I've been around her enough around some of her moments, but it was really that day when it was kind of like, you know, just very calm, very collected. You can see the focus. We didn't

really talk a lot. I think she was just really processing. So I thought she was going to kill it. I really did. So I was nervous, but not really because I just, I know her so well. And I know this whole entire campaign, she's just been stepping up. And the expectations, the pressure, the country, the world needs a leader right now. And she has really stepped up in kind of the most badass version of a badass person. And so, you know, I was confident, but you never know until you get out there. And to see her just walk right up to Trump and put her hand out and say, hi, I'm Kamala Harris, it really set the tone. And that guy, he just didn't kind of didn't know what hit him. And then it was just, you know,

one thing after another. And it was relentless the entire time from start to finish. There was no let up. And that's what I like, too. It wasn't where she scored a few points and said, okay, I'll just mail it. No, it just kept going and going. And it was really a lot of pride. But she walked off the stage, and I was just in a little soundless room watching it. And she walked off. She said, well, how did I do? I'm like, how did you do? You crushed it. What are you kidding me? And it was just one of those fun little couple moments where, no, honey, this was unbelievable. I love so much about that.

I love that they give you a one-hour conjugal visit on the tarmac. I love that she was ready. I have to tell you, Trump, it's impressive to me. I just have to say, so from my perspective, having been backstage at all those 2016 debates in the primaries against him, all those men i gotta tell you

including my boss i'm not speaking out of school he'll say it marco you know going all the way down scott walker going all the way down the line i think they were nervous it's a different animal it's not like a politics debate you know you have this guy you don't know what he's gonna say more people are watching than i've ever watched anything like he's a total wild card and so like the fact that she maintained so much calm there i do think really was like a test of ability to rise to a moment which is an important trait in a president yeah and you remember tim how she started her career i mean facing down murderers and rapists and sex offenders and putting them away and facing down transnational gangs so she's a super tough fearless woman for real so she's not afraid of anything and certainly

not him and that that showed too because she really approached it the way she does everything like i don't i'm not afraid of you and i'm just gonna bring it right to you and let's see if you can deal with me rather than whether she can deal with him. And that's the way she approaches everything. And I think every other, you know, the folks you mentioned in 2016, you always felt like there were some really good, good debaters on that 16 stage. And he took them all down because they, they kind of didn't know how to deal with him. She knew how to deal with him. I love that. There's one moment from the debate, ever since it happened, I've been dying to ask you about.

So I want to play it, and we'll get you on the other side. Let's just listen. A place of storied significance for us as Americans. A place where we honor the importance of American diplomacy, where we invite and receive respected world leaders. And this former president, as president, invited them to Camp David because he does not again appreciate the role and responsibility of the president of the United States. What do you think that she was going to call him there i'm just going to rely on on the memes at this point so there was the sam jackson

fun from pulp fiction i'm not saying this is what she was trying to say but there is a funny meme of her when somebody asked her what her favorite you know cuss word was she said it starts with an m and ends with an uh and um it feels like it might have crossed the mind it feel it might i but i just know what i got sent on my various you know group chats and i thought you might have inside info though you know i thought maybe one time you might have known that look like across the kitchen i'm just you know she's like you you know what is this like spousal uh privilege or whatever i'm gonna some of these things will just have to remain between us but uh it was a great moment all right we'll grant spouse privilege

i want to go back to your career i was listening to your interview with my man heilman a couple weeks ago and um you guys were talking about one of your mottos in your legal career about that was stay mad stay mad that's funny you referenced that one time we met before and it was like the one thing that we really talked about and i think connected over was the fact that like both of us at times get frustrated with the fact that there's some complacency out there and that a lot of people are not staying mad at donald trump and the threat of him uh what be that media be that political opponents be that whoever so i'm curious for you to just to repeat for our listeners kind of what that motto means and then how it applies to the the challenge of

taking on trump so it really started when i was a you know a good kid athlete i played a lot of competitive sports yes it's true i see you're like really no i did i know i believe i've seen the i've seen the picture on the tank top the doug tank top. You look athletic. Yeah, young Doug, man. But it's just that channeling that, just get mad, get mad at the opponent on the field, on the court. And then as a trial lawyer, a competitive person in the legal field where I'm representing clients, where you got to make their problem your problem. You got to get as upset as they are about the issue that they're facing. You got to channel that and you got to turn that into action. And so don't turn that anger into just being mad. Turn that anger into purposeful action to complete the task at hand. And so in my speeches now, and I'll go through the parade

of horribles over the effect of the Dobbs decision, Project 2025, all the things that are on a daily basis coming out of Trump's mouth. The don't believe the sane washing of J.D. Vance. Just actually listen to what they're saying in the kind of country that this would become, which no one would want to live in. The impact on our economy of a half-ass authoritarianism type government, it's going to be devastating for our world. So you just start talking about this and you can see the rage in people in the audience. I say, yeah, you're mad, aren't you? Well, stay mad. Turn that anger into action. You can do something about this. We've got 30 some odd days for an election. So let's turn this into energy, purpose.

Do what Colm and I are doing. We're traveling each and every day around the country to get the word out that there really is such a stark binary choice. And you all know, as former Republicans, you and Charlie and others just talk about how truly terrible this will be. And it's not going to be normal. And as much as they try to normalize it, it's not. And it's not going to be like it was in 16 because he had some normies around him. They're all gone.

So this is not going to be what anyone's seen before. And they're literally telling you what they're going to do. It's all out there and so get mad turn it into action and let's get out and register and let's get out and vote amen and and the statement for me is like i don't know it does just feel at times like there's a little bit of complacency like i was watching liz yesterday with um the vice president and the two of them they they have it. The fire is in the belly. And I just am watching and going, why is it only Liz? I know that there are other people out there, my man Adam Kinzinger and others,

but at some point, don't you feel like it is incumbent within the Stay Mad ethos on more people to kind of spend the next 30 days closing the deal here? Definitely. But there's others. Look at General McChrystal. What he wrote in the New York Times was just an amazing op-ed. And he said he may not agree with Kamala Harris on a lot of substantive issues. He may.

He's just learning more. But on the fundamentals about who's an American, who stands up for the rule of law, who stands up for the Constitution, who is going to be a leader on the world stage, who respects our allies, going to stand shoulder to shoulder with them and not kowtow to Putin and others. It's such a clear, stark contrast. So we're getting them engaged and the tent is getting bigger and bigger. We're getting more and more Republican endorsements. But I will say to your former, the Republicans out there, it's not enough to just say publicly, you're not voting for Donald Trump. You need to say you're supporting Harris because otherwise, what is it worth? You know, go the full distance. You're either for the constitution rule of law, having

the country that we all love and care about or not. And you got to support Harris on that. She's the only one who is going to be there. And look, we want a strong Republican Party. We want to have competing ideas and policies, but not about the big things, about our democracy, our rule of law, and our way of life. We need to be all aligned on that. And let's argue about policy. And that's

what Liz Cheney and others are saying. Within this rubric, there's one other thing that I just, I feel like I had to ask you about. Because sometimes there has to be some limits to staying mad. And I just, I've been wondering how you're dealing with it. I don't mind taking shit. I actually kind of like it and revel in it. I don't mind if some jerk is whatever attacking me, some former Republican or whatever, or some current Republican about abandoning Trump. I don't mind if some jerk is whatever attacking me, some former Republican or whatever, or some current Republican about abandoning Trump. I don't mind the harassment. It's fine. I don't like it when my kid gets brought into it.

And I do sometimes react poorly. And that has happened over the past few months. And that happens to you all the time. I mean, your kids are getting targeted. I see Ella getting targeted. I just kind of wonder how you process that, how you deal with it. Well, first of all, sorry that what you're going through. It's nothing.

No, but we got to call it all out. I mean, look, you're a journalist. We believe in a free press. We need strong journalists out there calling it out. And for you guys to be able to do your job, you can't do it being threatened and being targeted. And that's part of their game too. It's all a distraction. So the attacks on me personally, the kids, Kamala, look, it's not fun, especially when it hits the kids. But right now, we have a mission. And that mission is to win this election. And there is nothing, I mean,

nothing that is going to take us away from this mission. Nothing's going to distract us. Nothing's going to make us lose focus and whatever they try to throw at us, it's not going to work. So we are, you know, kind of as a family, all aligned, we're close, we're close knit. You saw that at the convention and, you know, we'll talk about it and we'll talk to each other about it. But look, we, we know we've

got to just barrel forward for these next 30 plus days really to save our country. And we're in this position. And so we know there's a lot of responsibility and accountability. And we're just going to, you know, again, head down and run through those walls to make sure that we win. This message comes from BetterHelp. Can you think of a time when you didn't feel like you could be yourself? Like you were hiding behind a mask at work and social settings around your family? BetterHelp online therapy is convenient, flexible, and can help you learn to be your authentic self so you can stop hiding.

Because masks should be for Halloween fun, not for your emotions. Take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P, dot com. This is an ad by BetterHelp Online Therapy. October is the season for wearing masks and costumes, but some of us feel like we wear a mask and hide more often than we want to. At work, in social settings, around our family. Therapy can help you learn to accept all parts of yourself, so you can stop hiding and take off the mask. Because masks should be for Halloween fun, not for your emotions. Whether you're navigating workplace stresses, complex relationships, or family dynamics, therapy is a great tool for facing your fears

and finding a way to overcome them. If you're thinking of starting therapy but you're afraid of what you might uncover, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist

and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Take off the mask with better help. Visit better help.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H E L P.com. One other behind the scenes thing, though, when the other time we got to meet that kind of surprised me is when I was meeting the vice president,

I guess it didn't surprise me. It struck me the just links of the prep that she was doing the seriousness the binders she's showing us the binders like this one was saying this stuff seriously and particularly in the foreign policy and just kind of how passionate she'd become about it not chosen before but kind of her experience meeting other world leaders getting briefed the importance of america's role in the world you've kind of seen all that behind the scenes i'm just wondering if you have any perspective on just what you've seen in her as far as growing into and preparing for the world leadership stage, which is, you know, different than being just in California. Right. Well, so when I came in, I knew her as attorney general,

just being a lawyer. She's a prodigiously talented, smart person. You know, just, she just is. So she starts from a place of just massive intelligence and talent. And, you know, again, as a skilled, trained trial lawyer, and as a public servant going through attorney general, going as U.S. Senator, and Vice President, the preparation, attention to detail, the diligence, to making sure that she knows what's happening and she knows how to deal with it. There's also four years as Vice President really prepares you to be President. And look, four years of being in the Oval, four years of being in the sit room, and four years of not thinking about what it would be like to be on the world stage, but actually being on the world stage

and doing serious things, which she talked about in the debate. And you can see the difference, the way she talked about Zelensky and Putin, the seriousness, the way she talked about other issues and the way he, you know he was just making stuff up. And then you can really see the split screen after the debate when she was with Zelensky shoulder to shoulder, ally to ally. And then you see Trump bragging about his relationship with Putin to Zelensky. It's just that this contrast is so stark. so no i'm not surprised because she approaches everything with this diligence but it's those hours clocked doing the hard things as vice president and then her own natural talent and skill and ability to rise when the pressure is highest which we've now

seen from the day that president biden decided to not go forward with the campaign. You saw it at the DNC speech. You saw it at the debate. You're seeing it every day out on the campaign trail. She's just really elevated who she is. And it's just, you know, I'm not surprised. I'm very proud of her. But there's no time for, you know, hey, honey, you're doing great. And hey, look at you.

And look at this. Anytime I remotely express any kind of wonderment at anything, she just literally takes my head and says, get back out there on the road. We got to win. None of this matters unless we win. So just, you know, stop talking and get back out there and work. I want to talk about the anti-Semitism work that you've been doing, but also in the context of, I hear from people that don't like, there is a worry that the Democrats, for whatever reason, aren't taking this seriously enough. This is something you've been working on. Talk about your work and how seriously you and the vice president would take the anti-Semitism issue should she win in November. Thanks for bringing this up. And it's a crisis. It's a crisis of anti-Semitism. There's a crisis

of hate. From day one, when she and Joe Biden were elected, and I was frankly struggling a little bit with, okay, what do I do now? Because I didn't realize when Joe Biden tapped her to be VP in August of 2020, that that was actually the last day I worked as a lawyer in a career that I loved, was passionate about. And so when they won and took office in January of 2021, I was like, okay, what do I do now? And so Kamala was the one who really pushed me to lean into the fight against anti-Semitism. She said, look, you're the first Jewish person ever in this role. We already knew we had Charlottesville with the tiki torches. Jews will not replace us. We had the horrific shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, and other things were already boiling up. So she was the one who pushed me, and that push led to the first ever national strategy to combat anti-Semitism,

which was put out by the Biden-Harris White House in 2023. So that was pre-October 7th. None of that would have happened without the vice president pushing me and pushing the administration to take on this fight. Moreover, I tell my Jewish friends, it's like I didn't have to explain to her who I was as a Jewish person when we met. She knew who I was. She had been to Israel. She knew our customs, our culture. In fact, she was the one who was like, look, let's make sure you get to live openly and proudly as a Jewish person at the residence.

So when you were there, hopefully you saw the mezuzah on the front door and our menorahs and our seders and all the things that we've done openly and publicly. And that's because of her. And since October 7th, that horrific day, she has been on the front lines of the fight against this crisis, whether it be on college campuses and other places. So I have this conversation a lot. I think you should judge her by what she is saying. She has addressed this issue very directly. She did it at her DNC speech and other places. So, you know, I spent a lot of time talking about all the work that I've done, the administration has done, that will

continue in a Harris administration. And that includes on campuses too. Yeah, of course. And yeah, and look, the kids on campuses, i've met with lots of them i've been to a lot of the campuses especially ones that have been affected such as cornell and it's the same message like we have your back you're a student you need to be able to go to class freely and protests are fine they're covered by the First Amendment. We welcome them. But when those protests cross the line into threats of violence, actual anti-Semitism, and other things that are preventing kids who just want to learn, and these are kids, Jewish kids, who have nothing to do with the policies of the Netanyahu government or whatever actions they're taking. So that's what we're going

to continue to work on. And that will obviously continue in a Harris administration. I'm not going anywhere in this fight against anti-Semitism. So as first gentleman, I will very much continue my work in that area as well with her support. I'd love to hear that. We're out of time, but we got time for rapid fire. Are you ready for the rapid fire? I hope so, man. I hope so. All right, let's do it. Doug Emhoff, are you a Marxist? Do you know anybody that's a member of the Communist Party? No, and I'm married to a capitalist.

Married to a capitalist. That's important. Okay, good to know. I'm glad we cleared that up. Best dish the capitalist that you're married to cooks? She's such a great cook, but I've got to go with roast chicken like i think someone asked me once like if you can only have one meal forever that she made it's like she does it it's like a two-day process it's you know she married she puts it in the fridge overnight all kinds of stuff and

base it it's just one of those crispy on the outside tender on the inside deals and it's really good sounds nice all right we're in We're in the Jewish High Holidays. We had Rasha Shan of Yom Kippur coming up. Do you have a favorite Jewish holiday or tradition? I like Passover. I think Passover is one of everyone's favorites because it's a communal gathering and everyone goes around and has a part and a participation from oldest to youngest.

And you get to try all different kinds of things you probably never eat during the year and it's it really brings folks together so the seder is is probably one of my best moments you're an la guy she's a bay woman so there's a little bit of a rivalry there on the sports side but we're just going to focus on la i want an la sports mount rushmore i'm giving you magic we're starting with magic who else are you putting on it well i'm such a laker guy it's it's almost like it's like riley magic kareem shack kobe lebron no okay that's the lakers mount rush where you only get four oh my god well magic shack and kobe because LeBron's still playing.

So that's the only reason LeBron's not on it yet. That's the only reason LeBron's cut. I'm going to send that to Mendelsohn to make sure he sees LeBron get cut. All right, final thing. We always have an outro on this podcast, an outro song, something that fits the theme of the pod. You're going to see Michael Stipe and Jason Isbell tonight at an event for the Harris-Walls team.

So I want to hear your best concert and let you pick the outro song for the show. Well, since I'm so focused on the event tonight, and I was going through kind of my remembrances and with my little brother, and we were reminded that we saw R.E.M. at the Hollywood Palladium in June of 1984 on the Reckoning Tour. Wow. So I'm going to go for that concert. I think a local LA band called the Dream Syndicate, I believe, opened. So this was like on the ascendancy of REM.

You knew they were going places. And then, of course, they climbed the ladder to the amphitheater, to the forum, to the stadium. And so I'm going to go with that era. And since South Central Rain is my favorite song from that particular album, we can do South Central Rain as the outro. I love it. We're hoping for sunshine in the election, but it's raining here in New Orleans. So we can have a little South Central Rain to take us out today. Doug Emhoff, second gentleman of the United States. Thank you so much for coming on the Bulwark podcast. Hope to see you out on the campaign trail. Stay mad. We need you to go kick his ass. All right. Thanks, man. And thanks for all you're doing

and telling the truth and getting your former Republicans out there to vote for Harrison Wallace. Let's save our country. Appreciate it, sir. All right, guys, we'll be back on Monday. Hope you enjoyed the bonus podcast. We'll see you all then. Peace. The trees were bent The city's washed away The city on the river There's a girl without a dream I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry

I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry East of the mountain, a party call The lines are down, the wise man builds Words upon the rocks that are not bound to follow soon the trees will bend

the conversations tend to build yourself another home this choice isn't mine I'm sorry

I'm sorry I'm sorry