The Bulwark Podcast - Live from Dallas

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

Before a packed house in D-Town, Tim Miller and Adam Kinzinger covered it all, from Trump's incoherent muttering about childcare to his graveside camera-mugging. Plus big boos for Cruz, advice for Colin Allred, and should Kinzinger run for Congress from Texas? Our first of two live shows from the Lone Star State.

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Everybody say hi to Adam Kinzinger. Now, Tim, I live in Texas now, but I'm a congressman from Illinois. Oh, that's true. You said I was a congressman from Texas. I know. I would have already beat Ted Cruz by now if that was the case. Cool. I've already given away my last topic of this podcast. But we need to start with somebody that you know a little bit. I don't know if anybody's seen the news here.

If you guys have just been hanging out, it's Texas. But Liz Cheney has said that she's voting for Kamala Harris. She said something interesting in her endorsement. I don't believe that we have the luxury of writing in candidates' names, particularly in swing states. Why don't you talk we have the luxury of writing in candidates' names, particularly in swing states. Why don't you talk about that a little bit? Because some of our friends disagree with that. They love to write in. Ronnie Reagan's ghost.

Yeah. Here's the thing. So first off, obviously not a big surprise she did, but I'm glad she did. And I think the timing is great. Obviously, it would have been great had she been at the convention. Come on, just be honest. You're thrilled that she wasn't there. So you got the prime slot.

Great timing, Liz. Perfect timing. Nice. Nice. No, but I think in terms of the writing in, she's right. Now, here's what I will say to people that just say, I can't vote for Kamala. Maybe it's the abortion issue or something. It's like, okay, if you literally

can't get there, there's no problem in my mind, if you can't get there, of skipping the ballot line or writing somebody in, at least don't vote for Donald Trump. Because part of that, I fear that some of these folks are going to be like, well, I have to pick one. This issue is so important to me, so I guess I'll vote for Trump. We don't want that, obviously. But if you can stomach things you disagree with, which by the way, I'm married, my wife and can stomach things you disagree with which by the way i'm married my wife and i have things we disagree with right a lot actually but let's talk about that top three top three disagreements yeah what is it money it's nice but like you've got to take a pay if especially if you're a leader if you're somebody that people are looking up to as a thought leader, an opinion leader,

and you took the stand, somebody like Liz Cheney did, you've got to take a pick. Look, it's going to be Donald Trump or it's going to be Kamala Harris. And he is a real, credible, existential threat to our country. She isn't. So it's a pretty easy decision in my mind. It is. There was one other part of her remarks it was not part of that final video uh that bill crystal put in the newsletter this morning i liked uh she writes i understand the desire to think that you're casting a vote for

conservative policies but first of all you're not he's not a conservative and i think that that's like critical that she is out there making that case. So this is like one of my biggest pet peeves is this idea that Donald Trump is conservative. Now I will say he inherited most of the conservative movement, but he himself isn't. I mean, be clear. He's a, he's a nationalist. He's a, I don't even know what he is. I don't even think he knows what he is. He's all about Donald Trump. Conservatism is about conserving things. It's about kind of drawing back when you feel things have gone too far. He has basically the opposite of that when it comes to constitutional issues, when it comes to spending, when it comes to our military policy,

to say we're going to kind of conserve America's role in the world. No, you're abd America's role in the world. No, you're abdicating that role in the world. And so there is nothing conservative about Donald Trump. And by the way, Tim, I use the example of like, if you're in a trench, okay, and you're fighting, like they're obviously fighting hard in Ukraine. Another big, one of the most existential issues facing our world today is whether or not Ukraine can win. But if you have an enemy that's five meters away from you, or one that's 50 meters away from you, and you and I are defending ourselves in this trench, we are paying no attention to that 50 meter enemy. And let's

call that political differences, right? If we didn't have this person right here, then we could focus all we wanted on those kinds of things. This is the threat to us. And that threat is, does my kid, does Christian Kinzinger get the privilege of being raised in a democracy as strong or stronger than I? Because right now he's not on that track to get that. Could you work on that analogy? I'm like kind of RuPaul's drag race. I don't know the trench analogy. I'm like, yeah, I think I analogy. I think I get where you're going with that. Football and war, that's what I got. I've never been in the trench.

Speaking of Trump not being conservative, I don't know, did you catch any of his event at the New York Economic Forum today? A smidge, yeah. It was really something. I'm going to do a reading for you. Great, good. He was asked, the question was asked of him how we should address the problem that people are struggling to afford child care. Are there any specific policies that he had put forth to help people who are struggling with child care? Here was his answer.

I'm not going to do a voice. I don't do voices. When you talk about the kind of numbers that I talk about, that because child care is child care, it's something you have to have in this country. You have to have it. When you talk about those numbers compared to the kind of numbers that I'm talking about by taxing foreign nations at levels they are not used to, but they'll get used to very quickly, and it's going to stop them from doing business with us, but they'll have a very substantial tax when they send product into our country.

Those numbers are so much bigger than any numbers that we are talking about, including childcare, that it's going to take care of. I fully agree with what he said there. I mean, look, this is like, if you'd have read that and said, hey, Kamala Harris said this, this would be the front page of every newspaper. And I know on the podcast, we talk a lot about the double standard, but this is an example that this guy is not just a threat to democracy. He's a threat to actually competent governance because he has no idea what he's talking about. He doesn't know the issues and doesn't care. Honestly, he doesn't care. You think he cares about the cost of child care i would put all of my money on the fact that he doesn't think an ounce about that at any point in any day that's true um i wanted to focus on the incoherent part

of the answer when i was reading the transcript it goes on the part that was it goes on for much longer as is his want uh Very long, not clear sentences. But in the end, as a professional Trump translator, I'll let you know what he is trying to do. All right. His message to the New York Economic Forum, and the image, I have to tell you guys, it's like Trump up there, and he's darkened his skin even past burnt sienna now.

It's like a pine tar. It's like a pine tar skin Trump, and like six like phd academics sitting there asking about this stuff and it's just like he looks like a literal clown this scene is so absurd uh anyway but what he was trying to uh say if i, if I could, if I could saying wash him, was that he wanted to tariff, he's going to tariff and tax foreign countries so harshly that we'll get so much money from the tariffs that that will pay for the free child care that will solve the child care cost problem for America. So as a conservative that has strong views on fiscal conservative and economy what

what do you think what do you think like kind of the wall street journal ed board view is of we're going to tariff people so hard that we're going to get free child care for everybody does that sound like a kind of reagan thatcher right yeah i'm going to go on a limb and say it doesn't sound that way. I mean, look, we don't have to bore everybody because we all know economics in here. And you know that if a product is... I've got a couple of my buddies here from college. Okay. Well, most of us know it. You know, if you send, obviously, if you tax something coming in, and I think there's times where tariffs can work, especially against unfair trade practices, but that's the purpose of them, to kind of level the playing field. But obviously, that is just passed on to a consumer.

Here's an interesting thing, if I can take a quick aside and not bore you. When we were doing the tax reform bill back in 18 or 17, whenever that was, Paul Ryan wanted to do something, which I think was actually good, called a border adjustment tax. And to make it really quick, it's basically in Europe, let's say they make a beer, they put a VAT tax on it, except when they export it, they strip the VAT tax and send it here, and so it competes unfairly. And what this part of the bill would have done was to basically re-add that adjustment so that it competes fairly, and it actually was like a trillion dollars of income over 10 years. It's good for like Shiner Buck.

Yeah, it would be great like shiner buck yeah yeah it would be great for shiner shiner is great as a new texan you guys did you did good there but got it um thank you yes yay shiner and so what but but that was tanked not by that was tanked by the very people that are hard by the southern republicans the very people that are hardcore with trump now that all of a sudden forget they tanked a very, I think beneficial at that time, border adjustment bill because, you know, because for whatever reason, and they've thrown that out. What, what drives me crazy is like, we all have to, when you're in elected office, you have to adjust sometimes how you vote

or what you're getting, you know, there's politics that come into play, but what you can't violate is core principles. Unless you have a real come to Jesus moment on something, your core principles are important. These guys, everything about core principles doesn't exist with them anymore. Here's the thing that I struggle with, Al. Look, I get it going along with Trump. If you're like a nativist immigration restrictionist and your number one issue is you want to build the wall and you don't want any brown people in this country that's rational that you're with trump if you're a cultural conservative it's rational it's wrong but rational like what about your buddies like from congress like that that were that fiscal conservatism was their thing though the ryans the gallaghers they look at this and it's like he's at the economic forum it's like my main policy is i'm bringing back smoot holly like how like and he's a moron and he wants to kill the

constitution and he's an isolationist like why are they rationalizing him in the cnbc crowd like can you can you explain that to me at all so i can speak from former colleagues perspective you have to rationalize your support of him or you are not able to look in the mirror. I mean, really, it's like, you know, you think about it, I'm not making this comparison specifically, but it's always asked, how is it that a well advanced society like Germany ended up producing Nazis and killing 6 million of their citizens? Well, it didn't happen overnight. What happens is, there's a little bit of your soul that you sell out each time you, you know, Kevin McCarthy says to do this, or Donald Trump makes a tweet saying that, you know,

legitimate Americans should be sent back to their country of origin. And you make a little bit of a compromise every time. And eventually, you get to a point where you have to psychologically convince yourself that what you believe is right. And by the way, humans, we can convince ourselves if we're dedicated enough to do it of anything. And so they have to admit that you fucked up. Yeah, it is because you have to now look in the mirror and own the badness that exists. You have to own your part in that. And look, sunken cost fallacy.

Why didn't we leave after we lost 10,000 men in Vietnam? Because we already lost 10,000 men. We can't leave now. Why turn against Donald Trump? Because I've already sold so much of my soul that what good would it do to turn against him now? And identity, by the way, we all struggle with this in our lives. What you do for a living is a big part of how we see ourselves. It shouldn't be, but that's human nature. When you're a congressman, short of the White House, any room you walk into, you are the most powerful person there, probably, and you're the one that gets everybody's attention. That can be addictive, by the way, and they can't let that go. Well, I don't think you're going to be invited to Paul Ryan's Christmas party this year after that answer. All right, speaking of conservatism and

sort of history and the way that people have changed their views, I'm curious. Winston Churchill, hero or villain? Oh, my gosh. I was listening

to your podcast today from yesterday, or maybe that was today's podcast. I mean, look, and actually... the same question over and over again?

It's a penetrating question. I want to hear it all in my guts. Think about this. It's tough. People are re- want to hear it all. My God, think about this. It's tough. There are people are relooking at this all the time. Now they're reconsidering it. And by the way,

you inspired me. I downloaded the book bloodlands and I started listening to it on the drive here because of that podcast. And look, it's, I mean, obviously Winston Churchill is a massive hero. I mean,

think about this. This is a guy that for, and I can relate just a smidge. I'm not comparing myself to Churchill. Okay. Let's be clear. But I'm the only one drinking. Winston Churchill stood alone for a long time on the threat of Adolf Hitler. He was called a warmonger. I got called a warmonger when I called for bombing ISIS before they were named ISIS. We saw a resurgent Al-Qaeda. He gets called this, and he sticks with his truth that he knows,

which is Adolf Hitler is obviously the threat he ended up becoming. And then he leads his country that is getting devastated in this war, getting bombed every night, devastated. He leads them to victory against all odds. Some would call it providence that they won. And then he gets voted out of office. Like, because the English were like, yep, thank you. But now we need somebody that's not so good at war. This guy was a massive, we're not going back. Massive, massive hero. And for anybody, and by the way, I'm not even surprised. This is the sad part. I'm not surprised that there's an increasingly public effort now

to try to say that Adolf Hitler wasn't that bad. It doesn't surprise me to see that on the right. It has surprised you a little bit, though, that it's for people that missed the inside joke there that haven't listened to my podcast already today. Shame on you. Let's play it. Let's listen together. Tucker Carlson platform platforms this revisionist

historian man who, you know, says that it was Churchill's fault that Hitler killed all the Jews, essentially, because he was so bellicose. And, you know, the thing is, like, it's one thing to be like, okay, there's some weirdos having this podcast over here that are doing this. And, you know, it's free speech, it's free free country everybody can have their wrong opinions but um like tucker carlson was one of the key reasons that jd vance is the vp pick yeah like it was tucker carlson and trump's kids and elon and and peter teal that basically are calling trump and being like do not pick one of these boring neocons you have to pick somebody like jd vance who's more based who's more based, you know, and has a different foreign policy view, or else that they'll coup you or whatever. Tucker Carlson literally called Trump and was like, the deep state will kill you if you pick

Marco Rubio, because they like Marco Rubio. They had that, that was a real conversation they had. So it's Tucker that's, that like gets the VP picked. The VP has a history of platforming the same neo-Nazi, J.D. Vance, and Trump, like, obviously shares these views to some extent. Like, that is the insane part, right? Like, it's not like, oh, it's like some TPUSA college guys or like whatever feeling their oats and, you know, going full Hitler. It's like, no, the revisionist Nazi ideology is literally sitting inside the house. Yeah yeah and look at like misinformation i mean january 6 wouldn't have happened without people like tucker carlson

and without what happens on that kind of severely on right online right which is you know i always mentioned i i predicted violence i predicted it on january 1st to kevin mccarthy and he he dismissed that prediction but But I knew it not because... He has a long record of success with his predictions, though. But I didn't predict it because I'm like clairvoyant. I predicted it because I looked online, right? And I saw what was there. So this has a real impact. Mike Lee, has anybody here ever heard of NAFO? N-A-F-O. It's like a few of you. So it's kind of this online joke, but it's a real, there's a bunch of us that are part of this group

NAFO, and we push back against Russian disinformation. Some crazy guy tweeted something about how I lead NAFO, which I don't. Not really, not just, I have to interrupt, not just some crazy guy, Kim.com. Yeah, Kim.com. Who was like essential to the original, like, Russia

leaks. Yep, yep. He was the one that was part. The hackers, the Russians that hacked Hillary, sent that shit through Kim.com. Yeah, that's right. And so he had tweeted that I basically led the CIA op of NAFO. And I, of course, ridiculed that. But in the process, Mike Lee, who used to be i never agreed with a lot of him but used to be like a thoughtful constitutional scholar basically tweeted that

saying how the cia shouldn't be paying people for misinformation online the point is the idea that i lead a cia op online called nafo it's a bunch of dogs is insane if i did i'd be kind of cool what'd you say i said it's very cool it would be cool actually yeah i would love to take i couldn't tell you if i did but you know um but you see how quickly within three hours a u.s senator is tweeting that and so people sit there and see that and go well well. Well, this takes us to our next topic. Because we have an indictment from the Department of Justice out yesterday about a Russian disinformation campaign. It was people that were associated with RT, Russia Today, who used money to pay, allegedly allegedly uh this intermediary influencer woman lauren chin to go recruit maga influencers to push russia disinformation they had a huge money they paid a ton of money

to big name maga people that well big name if you're in that world you guys i hope you haven't heard of them but tim pool and benny johnson and laura southern and like it is working right it is the money that is coming from russia is real and it is influencing the way that a lot of people on the right thinking like that's like a big conspiracy to say that on the right but like it's true it's true and by the way it is i mean agnostically i'll say r Russia is brilliant in how they're doing it. They spent $10 million, according to this indictment, $10 million, which is the cost of like 10 ATAKMS missiles in Ukraine, to be able to destabilize our system here. That is the cheapest, most effective weapon they can use.

What I thought was interesting, and I think I'm right in saying this, is I expected Tim Pool and some of those to push back and say, this is a deep state conspiracy. It's not real. They kind of have more pushed back against the fact that they, you know, were knowingly Russian agents. No, they say they're the victims. I had a couple of them tweeting me today. I'm the victim. It's the best.

It's the best crime of all time. I wish I was victimized like that. These guys were taken in seven mil. Yeah. Or excuse me, seven figures rather. Yeah. I was like, victimize me baby yeah i'm ready that's later tonight at the glitter bar no but the the uh hey you see he said it that's like i'm just saying i bless him he can make gay jokes you can't make gay jokes he can make gay jokes but like we go way back but like look the uh you know, the expenditure,

I mean, it's obvious what's happening. And the great question, I think it was David from today that actually had said, well, let's see what they do tomorrow. Now that they know that they are Russian agents, they can pretend they were unwitting. Now that they know,

what are they going to do? And the answer is, they're going to continue to say the stuff they've been saying. We're taking a full circle on Mike Lee. So Mike Lee, the senator for Utah that you were mentioning earlier that accused you of being a CIA plant, has an official senator Twitter account, Senator Mike Lee.

But then he has another account called Based Mike Lee. That is so cool. That is him. And that he pretended like was not him for a long time. Then he was outed by a friend of the pod, Brian Schott, as like the person that, it's like, no, literally the actual senator is tweeting from based Mike Lee's account. But if you go back into the archive, he goes,

the person that convinced me to start based Mike Lee was Benny Johnson. Benny Johnson was one of the people that was taking money from the Russians. So like it might have been unwitting, right? But it was unwittingly successful that it got all the way up to the fact that a sitting u.s senator was implicated in this and is pushing out anti-ukraine pro-russia propaganda like at minimum tangentially as a result of russian money like that is insane how deep they got it and and the interesting thing is, first off, after the election, and Trump started saying the election was stolen,

it's not like everybody on the GOP all of a sudden believed the election was stolen. What actually sealed the deal was not just Donald Trump saying it, but then everybody that's in Congress or the Senate or a talking head also saying the election was stolen because you need two people to confirm a fact. And so in people's minds, that confirms a fact. And so, yeah, I mean, like, you know, when, when you're putting out this kind of misinformation and you're a constituent of Mike Lee and you see him tweeting, whatever he's

tweeting to the day, you're going to believe it because I mean, he's a U S Senator, the disadvantage America has, and this is when I could spend an hour talking about and I won't, but the disadvantage America has in the information war is Russia, obviously, at the behest of Putin, can do this kind of stuff. When we try to fight back, which we can do some kind of information stuff, but if Rand Paul finds out that we have a disinformation campaign in Russia, for instance, he will run to Twitter and expose that and say, this is what the US is doing there, blah, blah, blah. So we are hamstrung in how we can respond. And we're basically sitting here taking shots, but not able to fire back. So you're saying we should be doing more secret propaganda?

Oh, I totally think we should. Yes. Are you sure we're not doing secret propaganda shit that you don't know of? I'm fairly sure. There's some, but not like this level. You got any sources? You want to share? Uh-oh. People are getting nervous out there. I want to talk about Arlington for a second. In the crowd tonight, for those of you that

read the Borg's website, our friend Will Selber occasionally writes for our site, Afghanistan Veteran. He's here tonight. Hey, Will. Everybody say hi to Will. Will wrote beautifully about Section 60 and why it's important to post-9-11 vets. Trump today at that New York Economic Club speech that I was referencing,

also for some reason was talking about his trip to Arlington. Of course. kind of sort of loses the thread sometimes so it's heading down it's not not exactly an economic club uh topic uh but he said that um he was there because the gold star families were celebrating the soldiers there like what the fuck is what the fuck is wrong with this person i mean look it's it's very, very simple. When you're a, I don't even know if narcissist is him. Like, if there's anything worse than narcissist, like the devil, I don't know. Megalomaniac. Megalomaniac.

Like, when you're that deep of a narcissist. You're saying it's the devil in this guy. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. No, but when you're that deep of a narcissist, you are incapable. You're literally incapable, physically, fundamentally, mentally incapable of understanding sacrifice. And so look, if you take away, you know, the sacrifice of that, you can see then how he would say suckers and losers. They didn't get anything out of that, right? And it's fine if

you want to be a Hollywood star and be a narcissist, but when you're president of the United States and you go there and the idea of giving a thumbs up and smiling, look, there is no world, and I'm not like, for everybody in here would feel this way. There is no world in which you would walk through Arlington Cemetery, Section 60, which is the very recent, you know, the ones that have died in the war on terror. My friend Michael Wood is here, by the way, who ran for Congress. Fantastic guy. And he's a, he's a Marine and he probably has friends buried there. But the idea that you could walk through that and even think to smile and give

the thumbs up or to say to, you know, your press guy, like, make sure you get a good shot of this. And here's the thing. If you go on an official visit as like a sitting congressman or whatever, that's great. What you don't do is go there to politicize it because obviously we know why that's wrong. think of the precedent it sets where now every candidate for congress every candidate for senate every candidate for city council will go to arlington as a prop to get their picture taken to prove they're more you know with the troops and pro-american it's disgusting all right putting arlington aside though please clap as they say that's true i don't know if you ever heard that phrase before please clap um so it's kind of a way that you encourage people to clap. Do you know, by the way, we got to be good friends on the Jeb campaign.

And somebody, one man had the balls to say, you know what? I'm for Jeb Bush because he's going to be a good president. And that was Adam Kinzinger. So we got to hang out a lot together on the road. Me, Adam, and Lindsey Graham. It was a weird trio. We've kind of gone our separate ways, but one of us has.

Just one more thing on the Arlington Ding Bill. You said, you both, you and JBL said that you would never think to do a thumbs up and a smile in front of a grave. Is there not any grave that you would ever do a thumbs up? I'm sorry, don't answer that. Don't answer that.

Don't answer that don't answer that don't answer that i had a serious topic to get to but we're laughing so we're gonna do fun stuff first you were hanging out at the dnc yeah uh jimmy did you make any pals thank you are you there like are you popular there i mean like you and cory booker throwing back shots or like do you have any like kind of backstage anecdotes yeah Yeah, look, it was a, it was a really cool experience because, uh, you know, when I wrote my speech, it was, uh, you know, obviously my goal was not necessarily speaking to the people there. It was speaking to the camera, to the Republicans that feel like we feel. And there's, there's more of them out there than, than it seems, even if they end up voting for Trump, some of them. Um,

but the one thing I didn't want to do was shy away from being a Republican, because that was the point. And so Sophia and I, my wife, you know, we were talking some and she's like, just expect when you in the opening, when you're kind of like, hey, I'm a Republican, you might get booed. And I'm like, it's okay, I expect it, you know, it's, it's a convention, it's everybody's. But when I got there, and I felt the energy in that place and I saw how my other Republican friends were welcomed on stage, I'm like, oh, there's not going to be booing. Like they did boo J.D. Vance, which was nice in my speech.

Did anybody throw any panties at you? No, not that I saw, but, you know. Not on stage. Not on stage. You watch out, ladies. I was not a request, Springfield ladies. But it was an amazing, amazing feeling. And I thought the RNC did a decent job of their convention.

The DNC blew their convention out of the water. And the thing that I loved about it, you know, look, yes, I was treated very well. You kind of feel like a rock star there because everybody's coming up. And it was great. And I love that. What I loved about the convention is the Republicans and Donald Trump specifically have vacated a lot of real estate in the middle of America. They've vacated national defense. You know, those kinds of easy.

And the Democrats went in and grabbed it, right? USA chants, patriotism. Like, this is all stuff, and I said this at the beginning of my speech. The Democrats are just as patriotic as we are. They're just as concerned about the future of this country as we are. And I meant that. There were no tri-cornered hat guys in the hallway, though. Oh, it was amazing.

Pocket constitutions. No wackos. No pocket constitutions. There were no wackos, and that was nice. That was nice. So you didn't do shots with any Democrats? No, because we were kind of in and out. But I will say really quickly, in 2015, the Main Street group,

Republican Main Street, which is like the moderate Republicans. It's not moderate anymore, but it'd be moderate in comparison. We were having a getaway in Florida and we were being protested by like 20 people in 1776 garb calling us rhinos. And I'm like, what kind of weirdos

travel to Florida to protest in revolutionary war clothing? That's going to be the National Security Council of Trump wins. Yeah, it is. Those 20 guys are doing Project 2025. Sir, we need more muskets in this place. All right, we've got to stop.

We've got to be serious. We've got to do one second about the Georgia shooting. I like talking to you about this for a reason, because you, unlike me, are scared to hold a weapon. You're a gun person yeah and care about it and care about the second amendment and we have this shooting yesterday and since since this happened you know more has come out and it's like this kid this young man that that committed this horrible murder is 14 his mother had drug problems his father had guns in the house

the fbi got warned about him him The FBI showed up to the house They talked to the father a year ago And the father was like oh don't worry about this He won't get guns He had lots of calls for help according to other people In the family And it's like fucking Republicans Like our whole life growing up

We're like we gotta stop the deadbeat dads And like the welfare moms Like there's a lot of like coded racial shit there and there's a lot of bullshit there but like underneath it like the responsibility culture is there right and you don't hear that from these guys now that's like this father who had guns in the house who had a troubled kid who was warned by the fucking fbi did nothing like that man should face legal problems yeah jeopardy yeah I agree yep so anyway does that am I am I and David Frum's on podcast talking about Canadian gun laws so are we status that's my question for you you're a gun man how do we balance this freedom like having

some fucking responsibility I am much more moderate on guns than I started when I was in Congress, you know, because when I just because of what I've seen, I mean, you know, yes, there were school shootings in 2010. But not like we're seeing now. I mean, look, it's and I got a kid now. And I hate to say that that makes a difference in policy. But it does because you feel things differently as well. But like, yeah, I am a gun guy. And I fully believe that you have, you should have a right as a law abiding citizen to conceal carry, for instance, I don't if you know, if you're certified, and I do think you should have to have a license for that. I don't understand open carry, really, I don't understand why. But okay, Texas, you guys like to show your guns off sometimes, it's cool. You know, but I usually conceal carry where I go because of security threats. What I don't understand is why... One of the

things I was trying to push in Congress, I was the first congressman, Republican or Democrat, to call for banning bump stocks. That was a 90% issue. And to show you how crazy it is, Donald Trump banned them. The NRA gave Donald Trump an A for his score. I got a D plus because of that, right? And I hate the NRA, just so you guys know. And so let's find the areas that I think we should all be able to agree on. Red flag logs should happen. Because people say, well, you're denying somebody's constitutional right before a trial.

That's true. We also do that with restraining orders, by the way. You know, there is stuff in the law where sometimes to protect people, you have to temporarily deny a constitutional right. The other thing, at least when it comes to assault rifles, for instance, I think we should have to have another layer of licensing to get those for their background checks. But can't we all agree that you should have to be 21 there i mean you have to be in this country you have to be 21 to buy a handgun you i don't know the rules in texas maybe it's 18 you only have to be 18 to buy a long gun which includes an ar by the way and by the way just so you guys know, and you guys know guns, if it was a pistol against an AR, you'd lose 99 out of 100 times because of how high powered they are. The pistol, 99 out of 100 times.

And so, look, there are common sense things we can do. You have to be 21 to buy cigarettes. Nobody went crazy when we raised the cigarette age. Let's raise the gun age at least, right? Because a lot of these shootings in this case and i know i kind of went off topic but in this case a parent should be held accountable but in most of these school shootings it's somebody that's either in school or just recently out of school that if you ban the purchase of those guns that would be out of that group's hands that are most likely to

commit a school shooting so we can So I'm not a communist. Nope, I agree. And look, and David today actually really pulled at my heartstrings with the talk about, you know, look, Canada, every other country in the world, you have, you know, mad kids. You have violent video games.

You have violent movies. You don't have this. You have guns in Canada. Yep. Yeah, I know. That was tough with him. Listen to him talk about it. So you're in Texas. You worried now that

you can't run my secret plan for you to run as the Democrats ruined now that you just came out for gun reform? Nope. What do we think? Does everybody think Adam's running as a Democrat in Texas? He's got some bad votes.

Do you want me to start going through his votes? He's got some votes that are going to get you booing. Do we want to do a boo? Okay, no, we're not. We'll do that another time. You've got some votes, though. But I don't know. What is your message to the Texas Democrats?

I do think it's like you've got Colin up this year. And what can they do? I'm going to see Colin on Saturday in austin uh obviously we like him better than ted cruz we like ted cruz right no uh what what's what's your advice to colin and to other texas with colin i think he's great and i've been friends with him since uh since we served in congress together uh look this is is what Texas Democrats, and I think Democrats in general do right, is they're giving him the, I guess, the leverage to be able to be who he is. He's kind of a moderate Democrat, right? If you want to win Texas, this was always

my advice to people in Illinois, is like, you can't have the most conservative candidate run statewide in Illinois and win. You need a moderate. Like every one of our statewide office holders in Illinois that were Republicans were pro-choice, for instance. And it's like you've got to give flexibility for that. The Democrats do a good job of that. The Democrats do a good job of putting down their crazy element and actually lifting up the candidates that reflect the state. Texas is not a far- left state. If you want a Democrat to win, somebody like Colin Allred is the one to do it. By the way, recently

polls showed him only about 2% down. It's going to be tough, but it's doable. So, just being devil's advocate, there's the other side of that that like you know, Beto just drew such enthusiasm in the state, right? And there's just kind of Beto mania. I think my husband even had, Beto, I just drew such enthusiasm in the state, right? And there's just kind of

Beto mania. I think my husband even had a Beto shirt and we lived in Oakland, you know, so Beto is everywhere. I don't think there are any Colin Allred shirts walking around Oakland. I don't live there anymore, but I think I can say that pretty safely. How do you kind of balance that, right? Because like you do need the both the excitement of younger voters, new voters versus, you know, having somebody that's more you know in the center well the first thing is if you're running against ted cruz they're going to be pretty excited so that's good but like look i i mean it's it's it's really just a matter of do you want to win or do you want to lose and yes somebody that's hardcore either to the left or to the right. Gin's up their base. The Republicans in North Carolina are really excited about Robinson, okay?

He's like down by 15 points. This wasn't on my agenda, but let's do a quick aside. Just getting the red light, but why not? What do you think about going to a porn store five nights a week with a pizza he brings the pizza into the porn store goes into the back room and he's there every night sounds like a republican candidate for governor if i've ever heard one i mean it's look it's just the hypocrisy of this all watching back there do you think i don't know i don't know you ever been in a back room at a porn store? Never one time? Are you sure? Even before the internet? Even before Pornhub? We can't watch Pornhub in Texas right now. Is that true?

Can we still not watch Pornhub? Anyway. This is enough to bring my libertarian side out i'm not i'm not a big porn hub man myself i got a lot of ices okay none of your business but uh the people if people want to go on porn hub they should be able to but five nights a week away from your family does feel like a lot yeah i mean this is the guy that like has stood at church pulpits and talked about like you know basically the church should take over the state i mean just, just it's insanity. And the problem is this is what, in this case, it's probably good because he's going to lose. It's what Republicans put up. And so to get to your original question, which was much better than the, where we went, um, you know, look, I think, I think it's a matter of, it's just a matter of as Democrats recognizing, if you want to to win statewide, if you have a very liberal district like in Dallas, put whoever you want in there.

Statewide, you've got to put a moderate Democrat up there. They don't have to become conservative. They don't have to try to pretend to be Republicans. But obviously, you want, as a party, to have a candidate that reflects enough number of people in the state that you can actually win an election. Because you can have so much excitement and raise so much money, and if you lose, that achieves nothing. All right.

I agree with that. We're going to close with this. You received 7,500 retweets for something that you sent the other day, which had me very jealous. Uh-oh, what is it? And I would like to do a dramatic reading, unless you want to read your own tweet.

No, please. I can't wait to flush trump down america's toilet for my kid to learn in history class how america rose up to fight back against him for his name to be alongside benedict arnold and judas and for everyone who supports him to pretend they never did and for the grifters to go bankrupt, like everything Trump touches, we deserve better. We will rise up and achieve that. We rock.

Yeah, I believe that. I believe it. Yeah. I think he can win a Democratic primary. We're not going to talk about his votes, but I think that he could. I think that the people like that. Adam Kinzinger, do you have anything you want to add to that?

Any final words for the crowd here? No, look, I'll say this. First off, it's awesome being here. Thank you guys. You guys are great. And the Bulwark community, I mean, I travel a lot and talk to a lot of people. I mean, honestly, more than anything I hear, I've heard you on the Bulwark, right? I listen to you on the Bulwark. So to all the leadership of the Bulwark, it's awesome. Thank you for being great fans. And look, I really truly believe, I would not be doing this if I didn't. I believe that, you know, we're going to defeat Trump, but even if we don't, and God forbid, but regardless,

Trumpism will be gone and there will be people that will be ashamed. They'll be scrubbing their Twitter timeline because they don't want anybody to remember that they ever supported that SOB in this country ever again. That's my friend Adam Kinzinger. We're going to be back with a couple other people you know. Thanks, guys. Where a pride rose from the ashes of San Jacinto Still beats in every heart Like a battle cry Where I was born, where I was raised So when I die Take me to Texas On the open range

The Rio Grande is in my veins, it's heaven there, and so my prayer is that you'll take me anywhere in Texas, the only home I know, I'm a child of the Alamo and the Yellow Rose. And the yellow rose So when I go Take me to Texas Where my daddy worked Where his blood and sweat and tears Are still in that red dirt While Palomino's running Yeah, boys are kings And if I stray too far, I'll let my long star dreams take me to Texas. On the open range, Rio Grande is in my veins.

It's heaven there, and so my prayer is that you take me anywhere in Texas The only home I know I'm a child of the Alamo and the Yellow Rose So when I go, take me to Texas Take me to Texas