The Bulwark Podcast - Maria Comella and The Trio: Holy Schmitt, That Was Bad

Episode Date: September 30, 2026

The Trio comes together on the daily pod for the first time to give a little taste of the MAGA-land news Sam, Will, and Tim are covering for The Bulwark. The latest developments include speculation that Candace Owens may be a lesbian and that Florida gubernatorial candidate Byron Donalds pretended he was Jamaican. He may also have very poor judgment on financial matters. But first, Maria talks with Tim about Eric Schmitt and what may be the biggest self-own in the history of the Senate. Plus: Most of the media is still doing fake balance in favor of Trump, the pivotal scandal that knocked Chris Christie out as the 2016 frontrunner—and may have opened the door to you-know-who—and Tim shares details about a kiss he wanted but never got. Ex-Christie aide Maria Comella and Trio members Sam Stein and Will Sommer join Tim Miller.show notes: Tim’s updated list of additional Democratic candidates to support in “The Triad” Will’s “False Flag” newsletter The Trio on Youtube or on Substack The campaign site for Montana’s Sam Forstag The Bulwark’s campaign to help the Haitian community of Springfield The Bulwark store

U.S. voters abroad. Have you got your ballot yet? All states are now sending ballots to overseas voters. So if you want to vote this year, you should request your ballot right away. Go to vote fromabroad.org and click request my ballot, as to receive it by email. Questions? Ask our support team directly. Don't miss this gents to shape the future. Don't delay. Vote from abroad.org. Hello and welcome to the Bullwark Daily. I'm your host Tim Miller. We got a double header for you today in segment two. For the first time, we're bringing the trio to the daily feed. We're going to be discussing Byron Donald's X, revealing some pretty crazy history. And Candace is maybe a lesbian.

So, I don't know, stick around for the candy at the end. That'll be good. But first, she's a political strategist and advisor. She was chief of staff to former governors Andrew Cuomo and Chris Christie. She also worked on Christie's 2024 presidential campaign. Went about as well as the presidential campaigns I worked on. And she also advised Kamala Harris a bit on reaching out to GOP, voters. It's a long overdue.

An inaugural visit to the show, Maria Camilla. What's up, girl? Hi, it's good to be here. It is long overdue. It's like years in the making. Years in the making. I forget what happened. We were going to bring you on to do like debate and analysis and something crazy happened. And, you know, time is a flat circle. It is.

Something else took over besides the debate. Who knows? But such is life. We're here now. And it turns out most of what we'd be talking about is probably still similar. Exactly. You were invoked twice in the Liz Smith podcast as well. We'll get to that at the end. Okay. Yesterday, Trump's retribution agenda was in action,

and they continued to kind of step on rakes on this front. We have the Eric Schmidt questioning of Jack Smith, which I want to get to in a second. But another story, a friend of the show, Adam Kinsinger, there's this leak yesterday that the CFTC is investigating them. And you might wonder what kind of seashells he put in what design in order to get this investigation against him. It wasn't that in his case.

He was betting on Cal Sheet, which I, bro, we're going to get Adam on to talk about that. I don't know about the Cal She bidding. Turns out he lost a couple grand. I have that. I have that on personal authority. He lost a couple grand on Cal Sheet. But he's like betting on the campaign. He's better on his stuff.

I think he's been on Kamala, this is real problem. But he's betting on the part ends and what Biden was going to do it. He had no information. He's just fucking off. On one of the trades, he made $820 bucks. And the administration that is like running multi-billion-dollar scams on behalf of administration family members sniffing around Adam over 800 bones. What do you make of that? I mean, it's part for the course, right?

I mean, none of this is surprising. And I actually think, you know, listening to the line of rhetoric of the Republicans yesterday in the Jack Smith hearing, it just, you know, it's just kind of like you threw your hands up as they're kind of accusing him of like these partisan antics and like a level of. you know, partisanship and going after the president and, you know, using such elaborate rhetorical terms. And, you know, it's the exact thing actually that the administration's doing. So it kind of, the whole thing to me feels like a farce. And it's like, what are we actually doing here? So it is crazy how little that they have on Jack Smith. I mean, like, and the performative anger they have towards him, like versus the evidence they have of any wrongdoing. And like, you know, they're calling him dirtbag, you know, John Kennedy said.

that you make me want to throw up of my mouth. Right. And it's like over nothing. Right. Well, it kind of reminded me of, you know, you watch like in a TV show or a movie where they do the congressional hearing and you're always like, you know, coming from like the real world, you're like, oh, this is so over the top and ridiculous. This is never how a congressional hearing would go.

You're like, actually, this is exactly how this congressional hearing is going. I mean, it's like a movie magic situation. Well, it was a spoof at the part with Eric Schmidt. And I usually, I try to keep the clips for people to, you know, keep it tight. 30 seconds. You know, people are here to hear us. You know, Maria, they're not here for the C-SPAN hearings. But the Eric Schmidt exchange with Jack Smith was so delicious.

I know. We have to do a couple minutes. So just bear it out. I watched it a few times, so I'm here for it. Well, we're going to watch it one more time altogether. Let's go to that. Did you go to an NBA game between the Golden State Warriors and the Atlanta Hawks on February 3rd, 2024? I'm sorry, you can say that again?

Did you go to an NBA game between the Golden State Warriors and the Atlanta Hawks on February 3rd, 2024. What city would that be in? Atlanta. No. Okay. So your testimony today is that you did not go to a Hulk scheme on February 3rd, 2024. Is that correct? I have no recollection of that. Okay. Is it your testimony that you were not in Atlanta on February 3rd, 2024? Let me just give you a little context. The day

before Fannie Willis came clean with her affair with the prosecutor. You know the Atlanta prosecutor that was also trying to get Trump the next day were you in Atlanta? I do not believe so. Okay, did you ever go to Atlanta during your time at special counsel? I really don't think so. It's possible I flew through the Atlanta airport on the way to Florida, but I do not have a recollection of going to Atlanta.

I definitely did not go to a hawks game. I'm sure that. Did you ever meet Nathan Wade or Fannie Willis in your time at special counsel? No. What would you say if I had a serious? of text messages from your team that said you were in Atlanta at a warrior hawks game on February 3rd 24 the day after Willis and Wade announced their affair he's got him Matt lock you I don't think you know that we have this stuff so I'll give you a second to process it so you don't

you know perjure yourself I recall going to a University of Maryland basketball game where Caitlin Clark was playing right around that time and the Marshal Service was there with me, you could check if that was the exact date. It was Maryland playing Iowa. Could it then be that University of Iowa's the Hawkeyes? Could that be it? And maybe before we show this kind of thing. I know, but if he was at an Iowa game, is that correct?

It was because Caitlin Clark was coming to Maryland to play. Uh-huh. I know, but that might be the confusion over the names of the team, but perhaps you should have looked at it more carefully. Who's questioning is this, by the way, Mr. Chairman? Are you using your time, Senator? Is this what this is? No.

Are we just having like an open session here? I will begin my questions. I just, I'm glad you're trying to rehabilitate the witness, but it's not your time. When you are calling a witness a dirt bag? I present. Amy Coal is our finest hour besides the comb, probably. I mean, 100, 100%. I mean, look, I don't think her staff would make that same screw up.

So they would have checked. They would have, they would have checked before, before putting up that poster board. I mean, absolutely bumbling, but really, really rich to watch. It's funny they have a lot of discourse about how the Democrats need more, you know, straight bros, frappers, and no sports to do the social media feeds because they're, you know, too gay coded or whatever. And it's like, I think Eric Schmidt's team seems to be, I don't know, maybe they're Nick Fuentes in cells. They don't seem to know what they're talking about. There's this great picture, which will put up on screen for people, of Schmidt and John Kennedy. and they look like, you know, bit characters from the Sopranos, like staring down the witness.

So they're like, we got you. We got you. And they just, like, they had nothing. It's true. No. It's pretty hilarious. No. And it's not even entirely, like, even if let's say they did, let's pretend for a second, they actually had that he was at the game.

Like, okay. Like, so what exactly does that prove? You know, where were we going with this? Like, it was not the ace of the whole. I feel like they thought it was. So somebody who knows Ball, let you know that nobody was flying to Atlanta to see the 23, 24 Atlanta Hawks. That was not a joyful experience.

The same day, this is the other funny part about this. Yeah. This was all part. And we've both been part of this. You got a rollout happening that day. You're excited about something. But that's the funniest thing. They really, they thought they had nothing.

Even if he was at the game, as you pointed out, they still had nothing. But they thought this was going to be a big bombshell moment. Right. The same morning, Jim Van de High in Axi writes a story about how Schmidt is a leading VP contender for J.D. Vance. They had sent out talking points to all these mega bloggers like Benny Johnson who are all posting about how Eric Schmidt has got him. And like the whole rollout just like blew up on the launch pad. Totally. And I mean, to your point, we have done this before where you've rolled something out. You've teed it up. You know, you're like, you've done your job.

but I think it's more interesting and curious that they did like the mechanics of what that is, but didn't really appreciate to understand what the substance was. Like to me, that's like the disconnect. Like, you know, I feel like you usually, like if you're doing your job and you know, you know how to do your job in this industry, you have a sense of what lands and what does it. And that's where I'm kind of like flabbergasted by whatever they thought it was. Yeah. I think the Eric Schmidt VP float is kind of going to go the way of the innovation party.

You know, sometimes you don't hit them all. No, I mean, it lasted the morning, you know, if that. So, I mean. This is also delicious. People who don't know the backstrap. Like, Eric Schmidt gave the second most noxious speech of, like, the last few years behind J.D. Vance's speech at Claremont, and they were both on the same topic. And it was this big, like, he was trying to draw attention to himself as being one of the nationalist guys, one of the mega-nationalist guys. and it was about essentially how, like, you know, the blood and soil, like being an American, you know, is about being from the land and all of this.

And, like, these guys really are, like, leaning hard in to that. Like, you know, there's certainly racist stuff happening when we were doing Republican comms. But, like, but the rhetoric from these guys, like, pivoting it away from Shining City on the Hill stuff into blood and soil nationalism. Like, Eric Schmidt's been one of the point, you know, at the tip of the. fear of that. Yeah, I mean, it is a shift, right? It's, well, in the sense, it's like out in the open, right? I mean, I think when we were kind of at the heyday of our Republican operativeness, you know, it was sort of like, you had the T party, you had sort of a shift of like what was happening in the discourse and the base, but the truth was the establishment, for the most part, right? Either

ignored it or was, was not parroting the same language, right? It was kind of like we, we were ignoring this because we're a little bit afraid of it. We don't want to get primary necessarily, but it wasn't an embrace of it as like a strategy or a tactic or a way to win votes. And I think what you're seeing now is just like a full on embrace of it. And I also think what's interesting when you look at Schmidt or even a JD do this though, it's like they're attempting to ape Donald Trump. And look, for whatever and obviously we can get into all of the things about Donald Trump, but there is there is something to be said that when he does it, it lands in a different way that I just do not think works when you see someone like Schmidt or Vance, like, try to do it. And to me, it has a way harsher edge. And I'm just

interested in how that really plays out, you know, in a sort of post-Trump universe. Yeah. Trump had the celebrity sheen about it. Like, you know, he doesn't really make me laugh that much, but there's a joking element of it. There's a tongue in cheek. It's like he's friends with Don King. It's like, is this guy really that racist? It's different when you just have kind of a generic looking white guy, like, you know, talking about blood and soil nationalism who doesn't have any Riz. Yeah, as I could say. No, Zhad de Veev.

I do not think. It's just angry. Let's look at that in the 2028 context. So I'm just curious that you see all this playing out. I think we've marked off Eric Schmidt VP. But, you know, Vance is going to have to walk a very, like a tightrope on kind of both elements that we've been talking about, this, this kind of how much of the maga nationalism stuff do you lean into?

And then also, you know, assuming the Democrats take a, control next year, you know, these oversight hearings flip, right? Where there's a lot of oversight hearing stuff on the administration, corruption in the administration, looking into administration pardons. And like, JD is going to have to navigate, okay, well, I got to stay on Trump's good side. But as the wheels start to come off the shift, you know, here, is there a way to get any sort of distance? You're saying I could do this a little bit on Iran. I think it's really interesting. You know, I think to your point, I think these guys do have. like a choice to make, right? Like, what is the type of candidate that they're going to be? And,

you know, is there a little bit of, and look, I'm not saying it's just political courage, but are you going to do it because potentially the only pathway is if actually you distance yourself from Trump and you try to, you try to shift whatever we're considering the current, you know, primary base, right? At a primary voter, it would be interesting to kind of post midterm sort of where, you know, that primary voter where the party, Republican Party really shakes out. look, if you have a candidate who is sort of named as more feasible, right, which happens every cycle, whether it's J.D. or Rubio, it's kind of incumbent on them to sort of make the race, like to make the race what they want to make it or should make it, right?

Versus repeating like the last campaign, which is, you know, inevitably what a lot of these guys do. And I do think, you know, if you're kind of just trying to walk this line of being sort of, you know, still close to Trump and not trying to get his wrath. Like, I don't know how that plays out because it ultimately ends up meaning you're doing a dance, which, again, how does that resonate with a voter who, you know, look, like, is, you know, particularly post-primary and we look at kind of the environment from like an affordability perspective from how they're just feeling on the day to day, like they're not feeling it. And Trump got a certain amount, gets a certain amount of grace that I just don't think applies

to anybody else. And I think if you're running, you have to factor that in. Like, you aren't Donald Trump. U.S. voters abroad. Have you got your ballot yet? All states are now sending ballots to overseas voters. So if you want to vote this year, you should request your ballot right away. Go to votefromabroad.org and click request my ballot, as to receive it by email. Questions? Ask our support team directly. Don't miss this chance to shape the future. Don't delay. Vote fromabroad.org. I saw floats that Chris Christie might be thinking about running in 2028. Has he called you about that? Or do you, is he going to give it a fourth run around the basis? You know, it's like one more time with feeling, Tim.

So, I mean, look, like I, you know, I think when he ran in 23, 24, you know, I think, look, that was to have a conversation, right? I mean, in a lot of ways. And I think that was important. I felt proud to be a part of that. And obviously, the dynamic with Trump on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, very different. So I'd like to see Christy as part of the conversation. I don't know what that looks like. I think, you know, is there a lane for the sort of completely, you know, anti-Trump, non-Trump, Canada? I don't know. Like, and I think that's really an issue. And is there an appetite for it to actually make it through a primary?

Things have to get pretty damn bad, I think. I mean, they're bad, but I don't know that they're bad enough. Like, it's really the primary voter and who that is and how they're turning on, what they're turning out for has, like, gets completely evolved since we were in the game. So. I don't want to trigger you. but I am wondering if there are any bridge gate lessons we can learn from. Wow. That feels like a low blow.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It wasn't meant as a low blow. I mean, I was just going to say how quaint, you know. It is. That's kind of why I wanted to bring it up, actually. Because, I mean, it was quaint compared to the corruption we have now.

But also, like, it was bullying, right, with the local officials. What I'm more interested in is kind of the fallout stuff. Yeah, I thought. that stuff. Yeah. So, yeah, Christy, like, it ends up really kind of hampering him at times doing the unapologetic barrel through and other times trying to try and to apologize, you know, it just didn't, like, work. I mean, it's just a different era. Trump, on the other hand, I mean, just think about the scale of the different scandals of the ads that are just, you know, they can't even like, like, they're, so far from Bridgegate, you can't even see them out in the universe. There's so much larger.

And, and so I'm just curious about the JD question of this, right? Because, or Marco, whoever, you runs his successor. And if there are any ways to kind of think about like how to how to deal with the myriad scandals that are going to come out of this administration. I mean, look, like I think back in a lot of ways, you know, to Christie, reelect in 13, his first term, you know, really trying to position a Republican Party in a different way. I mean, that was really the whole thing. And it was a big reason why I worked for him and was a believer. And I did feel very much so that his communication skills and his talent was made him, you know, uniquely equipped to bring the party with him. I mean, I always kind of talk about it the day before Bridgegate broke, you know, he signed

the Dream Act in New Jersey. And, you know, he just had, I think, a way of communicating on these issues that I felt was really important. It's interesting because obviously what happened, right? And, you know, and look, I come from the place where I take about his word, I believe it, like, he didn't know this was staff, right? He admitted to sort of a culture that potentially allowed for that. Like, he did all of the things, right, to sort of own it to the extent. that you could in that situation, right? I remember being struck by the media attention at the time, which felt insane. Like, I mean, you and I have been in this business.

Like, I mean, we had like, we had every evening news camped out, like, for two weeks in front of Trent in front of the statehouse, like wall-to-wall coverage. You would have thought he was the president, right? So I remember thinking this feels a little overblown for like the fact he's the governor of New Jersey, but it spoke to, I think, sort of his political viability. And I think at the time, right, the feeling that he was going to go into. to the race as the frontrunner. And I know the Clinton folks were very nervous about that. And we knew they were in New Jersey, like, trying to jizz it up. And the irony being, right, as I look at it,

that, you know, he was politically neutered. It opened up the field as a result in terms of money, in terms of candidates. And it essentially got Trump in the game. And in a lot of ways Trump took a lane that was a little bit of early Christie and not the same way, but in terms of fairness, in terms of the language that was not, you know, political rhetoric, right? And as it turned out, like, that was the candidate that Hillary couldn't beat. So, and here we are, you know. God, I hadn't, I hadn't even thought about that. It's kind of Bill Steppian's fault that we have Trump, actually, you know?

Like, maybe Trump doesn't even get in the race of Christie. I hadn't really thought about that counterfactual. Like, had the Ridgegate thing not happened and risked Christy look stronger. Yeah. Who knows? We could have a different history. Yeah, we could. And I think to the point of, you were talking about different climates, I mean,

just how much that the coverage and how much it stuck and how hard it was to kind of get on the other side of it. I think it was indicative of just kind of media coverage at the time. And what's interesting, and I feel like I experienced this in 24 when Christy Ram, and it's, I'm not going to be like critical necessarily, but I do think the establishment press core politically still measures the non-Trump candidates in a way that is like gone by. And I really felt like they were covering us like to a differed standard. Even in 23 when Christy was running, still covering the horse race of donors and all the kind of saying, frankly, bullshit that was like, you know, in play like a decade prior.

And I remember saying, I was like, this feels like we have one, you know, arm tied behind her back in a race against Donald Trump because he can do whatever the heck he wants. And yet we're getting covered and there's a level of scrutiny, like, as if we're playing like a completely, like we're in a completely different game. Yeah. concern for anybody who frankly is running next time is how do you kind of how do you break out of that do you ignore it how do you how do you play a different game that doesn't kind of strap arm you by the same standards because do you think in retrospect christie should have done the fuck the fake news media this is all bullshit like do you think that might have worked 13 i don't know if it would have worked then yeah that's the thing i mean maybe but i don't know that it would have worked and frankly

interesting enough like it didn't feel right at the time yeah you know i'm talking macchiavellian. I'm talking about a macchiavelli perspective, not trying to do the right thing. The media has various different biases. I think that the conservatives and social conservatives in particular over the years have talked about how the media does have virus for those like liberal social values in various ways. But like the bias that they've had the last 10 years is that you don't feel fair if you're a reporter. If every story you're writing every day is about how Trump is lying and Trump has a scandal, right? And or Trump is saying something offensive. And like, you could fill the newspaper. We have an outlet. You can look at it at the bulwark. You can fill the newspaper every day with stories

about Trump's lies and corruptions and racism and offenses, right? And at some level, I don't know. That's what the Washington Post should do. I don't know. But like, and so, you know, these other things get blown out of proportion, like these like more minor offenses of other candidates because it's a way to kind of create a fake balance. That just is what it is. Yeah. And I think it's interesting from my perspective. And look, I came from and I feel like you were the same way, you know, when you were, when we were on the Republican side of things, it was like, look, like we had a job to do. We talked to everybody, like whether there was bias or not, it is what it is. Like I can't whine about it. But I do remember thinking, and I've thought about this, you know, just in hindsight, you know,

I did work for guy, you know, who had to win both the first time and then reelect by, you know, appealing to Democratic voters, right? Which meant, I would say in a lot of ways, Christie, particularly first from Christy, you know, on issues, he got as close as you could, you know, to like, let's say, an acceptable Republican. And I always felt like even that it wasn't enough, right? From like the level of scrutiny and coverage that we got.

And I remember at some point just feeling a little. Yeah, you're on the sour spot where you were getting both of the biases against you, kind of, right? Like both of the ones I just discussed. Yeah. And you're kind of like, like, kind of like, what is good enough here? And I do remember at a point, and it was like a little bit of a turning point during the Bridgegate stuff, being on the phone with a reporter from the Times. And we, it was unrelated to kind of a Sandy Funding issue.

And we spent, we were doing our homework. There was an accusation by someone we were, in terms of where the funding was going. It wasn't Eric Schmidt staff work situation? No, we were actually like, yeah, we're doing the facts. The guy don't recover on the phone. He spent all this time. And I just remember at the end of the call. It was kind of shocking.

He just was like, he's like, honestly. He's like, I just don't believe you. We were like, okay, I was like, you know what? I didn't really believe in the biased thing really until this call. Yeah, okay. Well, I can tell you what Chris you could have done that would have been good enough for me, which was not being the first establishment person to endorse Donald Trump in 2016. But we'll do that.

We'll do that another day. Yeah, I know. You haven't been your bono on that. He's always welcome to come on. Never came on to talk about it. I don't know. We can hash it out. I don't know, who knows me and Chris might like each other in the end.

It's life is long. It is true. I agree. U.S. voters abroad, have you got your ballot yet? All states are now sending ballots to overseas voters. So if you want to vote this year, you should request your ballot right away. Go to votefromabroad.org and click request my ballot. Ask to receive it by email. Questions? Ask our support team directly. Don't miss this chance to shape the future. Don't delay. Vote from abroad.org.

I want to do midterp's a little bit. I have an article that today. It's the latest. People go check it out. The triad. We'll put a link in the showdouts where I highlight some of these House races that I think Democrats can go get

in red territory and where Democrats have strong candidates and, you know, where I think, you know, that are maybe outside of the, you know, what the traditional kind of swing state districts are that's already had plenty of money. You know, people always ask me like,

where can I donate? Where can I help? I try to name some districts. So we can go check those out. One of them is at least DeFonix district up in up in New York. Blake Jembeen, I think is a good candidate. He's running against a total lunatic mega guy that sells like MAGA stickers, like Andrew Tate is awesome stickers and stuff. But I don't know. I'm just kind of curious you're, you know, you've been around for a while. You've seen some of these midterms. Like am I high on my own supply here? Like is Kansas really in play? Can can Elise DeFonix district

really go to a Democrat? Like what do you think is the scale of what we're looking at? Um, I did I, I, it's okay to do real talk. You can, you can pop my balloon. No, I mean, look, like, I, I think, look, I think if, if there's places where Dems can pick it up, this cycle with like the, with very good candidates to your point, the environment that's ripe, then, you know, I think that some of these places are just kind of it is what it is in terms of the makeup of the electorate. I do think it's the most primed in certain places. I do think there's some very good candidates who have the ability to appear. to a voter who wouldn't normally vote from them based on like political party. Look, I think we always do this, right? We kind of get ahead of ourselves in terms of what's going to happen and then what it's all going to mean. And I guess just having seen that go sideways a few times, it's like, let's just get to it and see kind of what, like how it all shakes out, right?

Before, you know, before you make any, you know, broad, you know, conclusions. I'm interested in your take on, I think, I forget if the events today or later this week, But there's a first joint event between Alyssa Kinn and Abdul Al-Sayat in Michigan. I think Abdul is going to win pretty handily, actually, in that race. I think that the core of the media, the D.C., New York media, like way overstates the appeal of Mike Rogers. Right. And also, like, is it really a persuasion race, right? And who's more motivated to turn out, right?

Which I think is also going to be relevant based on the district, right? For sure. I think my Rogers thinks it's a persuasion race. And there's, like, 0.2% of Michigan who, who, our Wall Street journal reading Republicans that like that, you know, or extremely pro-Israel or whatever that will do it. But like it's a tiny number and it won't nearly overcome the environment. That said, Slokin and El-Sahed is an interesting pairing in Michigan, maybe the most interesting at the end. They both are trying to do like the I'm Al-Aing my opponent type of thing.

Obviously, they're coming from very different wings. There's other Michigan establishment Democrats who have not gotten on board with El-Sayad. Slokin did from the, the, day one. So, I don't know, just open-ended. I just wonder if you have any thoughts on that. What do you make of the, when you kind of say the alpha-ness? I just mean that, I mean, Alyssa's try, like, Alyssa's theory of the case is that Democrats were not, are not tough enough, that they're too wishy-washy and that she, like is, and that Trump's kind of, like, you know, everybody has a theory of the case for how to win back Trump voters. And I think that Alyssa Slotkins is, like, they do performative machismo, and why can't

we? Like, we can be performative machismo. She's like, I'm tough. I'm actually tough. Trump ditched the, you know, service I served. Right. And I think Abdul, you know, Abdul kind of just does good. He wears the tight black t-shirts and is like, you know, I think he said a couple of times where he's suggested getting in a fight with someone. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. You know, I just, you know, it's interesting. Like the core Abdul fans really don't like talking at all and vice versa. But the two of them are making a very practical choice here. I don't know. What's interesting? I think it like the strength thing.

I think it's sort of like how does that actually show up, right? And I think there's something to be said about, you know, being strong in terms of convictions and being matter of fact and like delivering it in a way that like conveys that. You know, yeah, some of I guess the performative macho stuff that the Trump folks do, I guess, works or at least it holds people in place. I don't, you know, I don't find it, you know, appealing or convincing. but again, I'm not the target audience for that. But I think, you know, I think it depends on how you do it,

because I do think it can run the risk of looking, like having a boomering effect that is not actually what you're trying to achieve. So I think it's a fine line on how you pull it off. And, you know, I don't know, the verdict's still out. So for me anyway. On both of them. On both of them. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you have anybody you really like on the Democratic side? Do you think he's doing really well? That's a good question. I really like. I like, I like no one. I'm not asking you to do the Chris Matthews throw up your leg thing, but I don't know. It's just going to look out there and say, you know, is there a 2013 pre-bridge gate Chris Christie out there on the Democratic side?

Well, that's interesting. Yeah. I mean, obviously there's a lot of talk around all stuff. You know, I don't, who I think like has a certain appeal, I think. And I could see, you know, being successful in a general, right? Because I think it's part of it, right? It's the issue of like, how do you? you get through a primary.

A lot of times I feel like a candidate who would be great in a general, right, is going to struggle on either side in the primary. The case for Assoff is I think Kamala really got in the sour spot with, you know, the fact that like the more moderate people in the party thought that she was a California progressive and the more Bernie left people in the party thought that she was a corporatist to care who like cared too much about what Liz Cheney thought or whatever. which is like all fake, but whatever. Yeah.

Voter impressions are more important than reality in politics. And so Asov has a chance if he navigates it definitely enough to like do the opposite, right? Where like kind of left people think that he's, you know, progressive and centrist people, you know, see him as centrist. And I mean, Obama succeeded at that. Yeah. Trump succeeded at that. Totally. And I think some of that actually to whatever the strength is is like being unapologetic for where you are on an issue.

Like to me, That's the thing because you were never going to, and like, I mean, this was a bit of kind of the kind of first year rationale and like sort of positioning and how we thought about it is like you were never going to like 100% satisfy the base on either. You just aren't. And so when politicians on either side attempt to do that for the sake of like making it through a primary, it ends up like blowing up in your face because if you're not genuine or peer on whatever the issue may be, you know, fill in the blank, like that voter knows it. Right. And they kind of they don't like you. you for it. Now, to the extent that you can be very clear about where you are and why you are, you know, supportive of certain issues or wherever you may land on it, I do think, like, you get respect for that. And that individual can make a decision, you know, based on like the totality of where you stand, whether or not, you know, they want to support you. I think it's when you try to be something you're not that it ends up blowing up in your face, which I think was certainly a Harris issue. I'm just dying to get your opinion on Zoron. I don't know. I don't think

we've ever talked about it. I'm not sure what your position on Zoron is. He did this video yesterday. day where he said today we're launching the first ever municipal strategy to combat anti-Semitism. Together we'll ensure Jewish New Yorkers are safe and celebrated. We'll invest in their protection, their history, and their future. He's obviously trying on this front. A lot of Jewish New Yorkers. I've had some readers email me and say that they don't feel like he's trying hard enough. Anyway, I don't know. I mean, I'm curious what you have thought about the first, I guess we're not quite full of Zoron compared to your expectations. Look, there's a reason he's really popular. I think he's a talented communicator and he's very

he's very adept at showing up on an issue in a way that I think, even if he's like delivering bad news, you're kind of like, oh, okay. It's, you know, because he's kind of smiling what he does. Yeah, he's totally like. And that is like, as you know, that that's really a large part of the game, right? If I'm willing to listen to you, if I like you, you know, even if I don't agree with you. I think there's certainly been, which is going to happen, like certainly some missteps. But I don't, but I think on the whole, right, he's certainly, I think, figure out how to navigate sort of the expectations. of his base in the DSA and then the reality of, you know, you're everyday New Yorker.

Now, obviously, there's a certain segment who is very anti, you know, Undami here in the city, which of us is a certain ilk. But, like, you know, they always are going to be that way and you're not going to change their minds. So it's, I guess we're going to talk about, well, I mean, certainly, you have a very certain, you know, type of wealthy New Yorker, right, who, you know, I think, you know, looks at Zoron and, yeah, and look, the pituitary thing. I think it was really smart politically, right? Because, you know, let's put aside the merits

from an issue perspective. But yeah, you're speaking to the fact that here's something that sort of impacts communities, neighborhoods just from kind of like living here in New York. And, you know, you're going after people who obviously have a certain make a lot of money. And so it's kind of like, it makes sense politically, right? I was like, I was like, I don't see why you, why this is a, this feels like a no-brainer. I mean, maybe he didn't quite announce it in the way that he should have with the video, sure, we can get, you know, we can be tactical about that, but substantively, sure, makes sense politically. I mean, that was kind of lukewarm, but can you consider that you're a Christie and Cuomo veteran?

Like, that's like a glowing endorsement, basically, of Zoran. I, like, honestly, I just, I like to just go over based on expectations. Like, the rhetoric around him when he was going in was, like, was apocalyptic. Like, this is socialist, like, or the, you know, the police are going to quit on him. You saw this in some cities. The police quit on the DA in San Francisco. And it had a huge negative impact on, you know, the city's safety and just the livability. And like, there's been nothing like that for him.

No. And I mean, it was smart for him to keep Tish. And like, look, I also feel very strongly. Like, this is, he was a candidate who was the best candidate, ran a great campaign. And he won. And, you know, it's sort of like, this is, this is, this is, Now, well, we have to, this is where we're at. And I think I get a little, and I felt this way at the time, you know, sort of the Democratic

establishment freaking out, and everybody freaking out that he, you know, was the nominee and sort of, you know, it's sort of like, well, this is the environment you've created, right? The Democratic Party here in New York is not really big on long-term candidate recruitment. The fact that the best you could do in that primary race was, you know, a disgrace former governor who resigned, right, that no one really liked. And everyone was like, I guess we'll just have to throw everything in because we're so panicked about the other guy. And I'm like, that's on how this should work, right? But if this is where we're at, we're at, then you know what? Here we are. So, you know, there's, like, not a quick fix

to that. And I do really believe, like, the process is the process. So there's a reason he's the mayor. Maria Kamala, democracy lover. Yeah. All right. Our most important final question, for the daily listeners of the show, you might, remember where I call his name, might have sounded familiar. Because when Liz was on a couple of months ago, as she does, is our little, like, kind of brother-sister, teasing, like out of nowhere she shanked me and was like, remember when you tried to kiss Maria Camilla 20 years ago in Iowa when you were still in the closet? I was like, well, you know, I was going through some things, okay? Like, you know, there's a loneliness in Iowa when you're alone, you know, and you're dealing with your in feelings, you know, you're dealing with your self-identity.

And, you know, Maria was a little scary, but also like beautiful and like very, you know, like had a vibe about her. So I think the big question, that the listeners had was like, did you consider kissing me back or was it just a straight rejection? Straight rejection. I mean, I remember being very flattered. And I have to say, I have to say this, Tim, because I feel like you've ruined me because I think it's the only time that a man's showed up at my door, you know, to profess feelings for me. So like all this time, I'm just, I'm just waiting for like, where's the guy like, wasn't my blizzard. Yeah.

Yeah, hasn't happened yet. So maybe that should have been the sign I was gay. Maybe only a gay man would do such a, you know, kind of like embarrassing, making it such an embarrassing, you know, kind of showy pass, you know, is a little theatrical maybe, you know. Yeah, but like in the best possible way. I mean, like I said, I think you've ruined me. It's like the most romantic thing ever. Wow. So flattered.

That was a no, though. That was a nice no. It was the second time you've given me a nice no, which I appreciate. And that's, you know, that's something that I'm going to have to deal with. Everybody is to go through rejection in life. it's an important part of growth. All right, anything else? How do we transition out of that? I don't know. Now I'm very flustered.

Okay, great. Well, anything else you want to talk about? Any other, any old secrets you want to reveal? Anything about Liz? No, I think I'm good. I think I'm good. I think I'm good. I'll have to think about it for next time. I did the self-appo this time. So the next time you're on, we'll get an old story about you. That's embarrassing to even the playing field. It feels fair. It feels fair. I have another kind of embarrassing story about me related to you. so we can keep doing this.

But that's a teaser. That's a teaser for the next gift. I don't even know what this is. We'll tell you offline. All right, everybody else. Stick around for the trio. It's going to be even sillier. Thanks, Maria.

Thanks, too. U.S. voters abroad. Have you got your ballot yet? All states are now sending ballots to overseas voters. So if you want to vote this year, you should request your ballot right away. Go to vote from abroad. and click, request my ballot.

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For most of you, people who consume us on YouTube and on Bulwark Takes, you're familiar with this group's work. It's my colleague Will Summer, who writes the False Flag Newsletter and managing editor Sam Stein as well. And we discussed the crazy. shit that happens in MAGA, and that goes into the bulwark takes feed. So if you enjoy the forthcoming material and you're not subscribed to the bulwark takes feed, what are you doing? You know, get in there and make sure you're not missing any trio material. How are you doing, guys?

Good. Good. How are you? Much to discuss. We have a great, we have a lot to discuss today. A lot of gay stuff happening in MAGA world. A lot of gay stuff happening still. But I want to start with maybe the one straight MAGA that we've identified. We can be as sure is heterosaliener. sexual. That's gubernatorial candidate Byron Donald's. And there's a story going back around that I hadn't really locked in on until yesterday. And this was about his ex-wife named Bisa Hall. Bisa had met Byron at Florida A&M in 1996. And when they met, he told her he was from Jamaica. And he had a fake Jamaican accent. And the story offers us. a lot of other interesting insights from Bisa

about young Byron, but I got to, I mean, I guess what I want to start with is, Sam, how is your, can you do a Jamaican accent? I'm not even going to, I knew you're going to ask, I'm not going to try, I'm not going to do it, I cannot do it and it would go very poorly. Cool running is great.

I tried to show that to my kids the other day. Jamaica has a bulb sled team. It's a little, cool runninges is a little slow actually on rewatch. Really? All those 90s movies are. Yeah, I tried to do that as well. It was a little slow on rewatch.

So, I mean, that's pretty odd. I don't know. Yeah, this is an interesting one. You know, one of Myron Donald's parents is Jamaican. His ex-wife says that he kind of faked this Jamaican accent for a few days in college to look cool. Because he was like, look, I'm from New York. You know, there's all kinds of New York guys here, but not a lot of Jamaicans. And then so after a few days, I don't know if he was like, okay, all right, this is my real voice.

But you have to imagine there are... Have you ever heard Chet Hanks? Yes, I've heard of Chet. Of course. Bumblecloth. Yeah.

That's what you like to say. Yeah, no, Chet was legendary. You have to imagine though there are a lot of Jamaicans in New York, like of all the places, that would probably be the place

where there are the most Jamaicans in America. I don't know. It didn't land for them. The couple of other things that she said that were also interesting, she said they never discussed voting one time.

And so when, she rediscovered that he was describing himself as a conservative black man. She was like, since when? And then his other story on the campaign trail that's interesting is that he said that he was saved and gave his life to Jesus at a cracker barrel in the year 2001. He was working at cracker bail. He said there was a table of 12, like the apostles, Christian women that prayed over him. And that moment, he gave his life to Jesus.

The problem that he was still with Bisa at the time. She says he wasn't religious at all. He was not a church person. She did remember him wearing the Cracker Barrel outfit, but nothing else. And I think it would also be known whether that he pregnant, that Byron impregnated his now wife, Erica, while still with Bisa after the Cracker Barrel conversion. Is that not in the gospel?

Can't do that? Well, you're not really a New Testament, man, Sam. I'm an Old Testament guy. Yeah, so we could tell you, there are, You know, there's some different carve-outs, but I don't know. That's not even the best story. So I was doing some research on this. Hear me out.

So there's this old article from 2024 about Byron Donald's, and it includes all the stuff about the Jamaican accent and the weird cracker barrel stuff. But this part really stuck out to me. So he's a student at A-F-A-M-U, and he transferred from FAMU to Florida State, and he has another brush with the law. He has a charge for fraud, bank fraud, basically. And there's no contest.

The charges later expunged, so they don't have any details about why he was charged. But he gives this explanation to a Southwest Florida television station in 2014. And if you hear this explanation, think about whether this is the right person to be governor. This is his quote. 15 years ago, I like when Sam really starts laughing and doing the views of butthead laugh even before he reads it. But this quote is so silly. 15 years ago, this is Byron, 15 years ago I came into contact with a girl. She offered me $1,000 for my debit card and my PIN number, and I gave it to her.

I never got the $1,000, but I had to make restitution to the bank. in excess of $7,000. This is his quote. Can you say, go up to someone and say, hey, can I pay you a couple grand for access to your entire bank account? Think about how dumb you have to be to do that. Like, oh yeah, here's my debit card and pin.

I'll take the $1,000. Seems like a good exchange. What? It does feel like he struggled with money. Bisa also mentioned that he promised her that they would split the divorce paper. which honestly feels like a little unfair. It feels like Byron should have paid for all of the divorce,

given that he had pregnanted another woman. But they had agreed to a split, but he didn't have to cash at the time. So she paid, and he still owes her the money for the divorce 20 years later. But isn't it like $250? I suffered that, too. That's it. Well, he lost his bank account, you know.

Speaking of someone, $250, I've ever told you about how I owe him? Mr. Belding $200, and now he passed away this week. What? Yeah. How'd that happen? Well, I hired him to come to my friend's bachelor party to arm wrestle my friend at

his bachelor party. I could make a surprise appearance and that they were going to arm wrestle each other. And there's a miscommunication on the cost of that. And I thought it was, you know, I forget now it's been a few years. I thought it was maybe 300, and he said it was 500. and so I paid the three and this is before Venmo this is a while ago

and he just went into the car and looked at it, went to the car, counted it was unhappy that I'd shorted him the 200 bucks called me like nine times the next day leaving very angry messages about how I owed him 200 how I shorted him and you know

many years later I tried to do you know to reach back out but was never able to now he's past way. So if Mr. Belding's next akin is listening, I do. I'm happy to, I'm happy to make you a whole. I did not expect this story. Honestly, this is, I don't even know how to react to this. Why was he doing arm wrestling? Rest easy. That's because I, that's what I hired him to do. Like, he was, you do event things where you show up to various things. Like, hey, I'm Dennis Haskins. You might remember he's Mr. Melding. Yeah, pretty bleak.

Hey, find that guy. Yeah. And they also played a game of Jing. against each other. It was early in the night. It's kind of before the Bachelor party really got going. That's worth at least $600 right there. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if Dennis has a next of kin,

but I'm happy to even it out. Okay. Just one quick point about Brian and Donald's divorce here is a lot of this started coming out earlier this year after his second and now current wife posted on Instagram. She's like, oh, Byron, I love you. You know, this is the anniversary of when you first asked

for my number in 1999. And the first wife goes, wait a minute. Let me look at my divorce papers here. Wait a minute. This relationship started when we were still married. So then that's why she kind of turned. David Jolly, just a regular guy, family man, doesn't seem to own anybody money, never pretended to be Jamaican.

Are you sure about that? I don't know. David, if you're listening, if you've ever pretended to be from another country and spoke with a fake accent to try to win girls over. Has he ever given someone his? Debit card pin number in exchange for $1,000. We don't know. U.S. voters abroad, have you got your ballot yet?

All states are now sending ballots to overseas voters. So if you want to vote this year, you should request your ballot right away. Go to vote fromabroad.org and click request my ballot. Ask to receive it by email. Questions? Ask our support team directly. Don't miss this chance to shape the future. Don't delay. Vote from abroad.org.

Should we save Candace for the very end or should we just go right into it? I feel like we got to go into it. I mean, this is what the people have been demanding. All right. There was, well, I guess I'm just going to take a back seat and we'll kind of regale us with what the situation is with Candace Owens right now. All right, yes. We've been getting a lot of requests. Oh, please, Trio, look at this.

Give us your take. So here it is. On Monday, a gentleman. named esoteric shaggyism. And that's a take on Shaggy from Scooby-Doo. He's kind of been a long character in the background.

He actually, I believe, just got out of prison. He was away for a year. So he gets out of prison. His first thing, I've got evidence that Candice Owens had some lesbian dating accounts. Now, I'm sorry, I have some follow-ups on that real quick. So esoteric Shaggy of the magical mystery machine blog.

What was, like, what's it? Can you just give us a little sense of like what else, what other kind of stuff he has in his repertoire. I'm just trying to decide how seriously to take this. He's kind of like a Groyper Fuentes adjacent guy. His claim to fame was defending Ethan Ralph of the Ralph Rout, who was like a Gamergate guy and is currently kind of on the run in Mexico. So I guess Shaggy has some time on his hands for other pursuits.

Okay. All right. So he has a blog post about Candace Owens as a lesbian. Tell us more about that. Yes. So he has gone through some dating site leaks. adult friend finder, some others. And, you know, when these leaks come out, people may remember the Ashley Madison leak was a big one.

And you can kind of like look at people's email accounts in them. And so he zeroes in on these accounts under the name, I think, Condamo 429. And he, these are lesbian accounts with very explicit, you know, I just love, you know, getting down with the gals. It's a little bit more explicit than that. Yeah, well, I'm going to have to ask you to tell us what it really says. it's very it's very oral focused i guess i would say what do you mean by that though it's just like i love i love licking from you know when the sun goes up to when the sun goes down you know like i mean it's kind of like it's very explicit it's very explicit so we're talking about the person is a oral

we're talking about convalingus let's just be clear yes and she likes to be the giver uh yes exactly and so whoever this person is there are some pictures attached i don't think there were any face pictures. But there were, maybe there was one, but basically, you know, he then uses this. So he says, look at this. You know, this is like when she's in college and it uses her University of Rhode Island email to that account. And, you know, I can verify that this is really her University of Rhode Island email. And she used this condomo screen name on a YouTube account that has a video featuring her in college. And then he kind of spins out in some other directions. He's like, well, look, she logged in in 2022.

This means she's still, you know, on the hunt. Which site was this again? I believe there was one was adult friend finder. And then there was another one that was I'm less familiar with. You know, so the, but basically he kind of strings this together to argue that Candice Owens is a lesbian. And, and, you know, I do think we should say here that a lot of this is unverified. People, the people on the internet have kind of tracked down this trail, have followed his steps. And they say it's legit.

Certainly the Ben Shapiro of verse has been. very delighted by this. A lot of Daily Wire employees. Ben Shapiro verse. Well, you know, like the Ben Shapiro universe. Oh, got it. Okay. Sorry.

Yes. And so Candice's many enemies are delighted by this. And intriguingly, Candice now has canceled two shows. So she does one, you know, I believe four times a week. She canceled Monday. She said, oh, you know, I did an extra one on Friday. So it's canceled. And the Tuesday, she said, I just got so much evidence to go through, you know, on the Charlie

Kirk case. And so that's where we're at. Two shows canceled. Is she set to do it today, though? Well, sometimes she can't, I mean, she was said to do it yesterday and she canceled it. And so, yeah, as you said, we're recording on Wednesday. The one other wrinkle here that's happened since this initial post is that someone logged into that Candice Owens' YouTube account, Condamo. This is, it had one video from college, right?

So this was not like her main YouTube account or anyone's main YouTube. deleted the video and said, well, you know, I am not Candace Owens. You know, stop harassing me. But I think if you thought this was some random account that was, you know, kind of lost in the ether, you wouldn't expect that person to then be so clued in and that they would log in like that. Yeah, right.

Yeah. So the evidence here we have is that this person with Candace's email and a username that she uses is extremely excited about muff diving. and we have all of the messages. And she's canceled two shows. So, I mean, I don't know, Will, how do you, how do you, I mean, it's just hard for me to judge as an outsider, the veracity of Shaggyville. Yeah, I don't place a ton of faith in esoteric shaggy. On the other hand, I mean, I don't know.

It seems to stand up to some extent. I mean, you know, people, again, they've gone through these leaks themselves. I don't think this is a case where he's just like photoshopping these. the leaks. Often in this, realm, you deal with some very untrustworthy characters. And so he may be, like, and to be clear, he appears to be pretty nuts. He thinks, he's like, well,

this means Candace is, it's a lavender marriage. It's not a real marriage. We can get her British husband deported. And he's saying, everyone needs to rally around me as the man who defeated Candace Owens. Like, he's nuts in many ways. And, you know, it could all be fake. But I do think it is, it does have

legs in terms of, like, regular media. Has she denied it? No. Hmm. Yeah, I'm kind of two thoughts of this. Like, on the one hand, in segment one, you guys didn't hear this. We discussed how back when I was in the closet, I made a pass at Maria Camilla, our first guest. And, you know, she rejected me.

But, you know, sometimes you're still figuring things out in your early 20s. You dabble, you know, and things that isn't where your true form is. And, you know, there are plenty of straight women that had a little lesbian phase. when they're at the University of Rhode Island, etc. So on the one hand, I'm sympathetic to Candice. On the other hand,

she is kind of like the girl version of the closet of gay guy that is really obsessed with calling people the F word. You know, like she loves calling things fake and gay, calling people gay, saying so-and-so's gay.

And you can do a whole super cut of CANDis being like, you're gay, that's gay, she's gay, she's gay. And to me, that makes her, A, obviously a much less sympathetic

figure as she deals with her, you know, kind of personal feelings and trying to self-actualize. But B, I think it also lends some credibility to the accusation that there's a projection. Maybe she meant it as a compliment. I don't believe so. I think if you go through the archive, yeah, no. Yeah, I don't believe it's a compliment. Tim's right. This is really like a classic Candace catchphrase.

It's like the whole world is fake and gay. This investigation is fake and gay. And I think people might say, well, what does it matter if Candace is gay? I mean, when we talked about this with Sarah, on Monday. She said, oh, lesbian until graduation. Who cares? You know, that's everyone, you know, whatever. On the other hand, I think it is as we watch the narrative shift in this war, Erica Kirk was just in Vanity Fair. You know, I think it hurts Candace's connection with her audience if there is this sense, deserve it or not, that she's like being inauthentic.

You know what? You know what? I know where the sense. Israel made her do it. That's it. Israel made or do it. And she got through that period of her life and, you know, French Foreign Legion. Or maybe Israel did the leak. I mean, it's fake. Yeah. We haven't really talked about the Brigitte McCrome element of this, right?

Like, that is kind of overhanging it, right? You know, it is interesting. I mean, if I was an intelligence service that wanted to, you know, damage Candace Owens, I think esoteric shaggy would probably be a pretty good guy to put it out through this kind of this character with really no ties to anyone but the Ralfreport. So I think it could be the Mossad. It could be the Mossad. It could be the Mossad. It could be a

manual. Yeah. What about the idea that it's a self-leak? Because Candice losing a little juice and like she's really squeezed all the juice she can out of this orange of the Charlie Kirk murder. She needs people to come watch you know. The show needs to have

some new controversies. Is it possible this is a self-leak? I'm intrigued by that theory. She needs a new arc. She's going to have a, you know, dump George Farmer, you know, move on. Who knows? Or that the arc is that this is, that her new investigations are going into esoteric Shaggy and the gay mafia. And then she ends up with Erica Kirk in the end.

Erica Kirk gives off some lesbian vibes. Well, that's what Candace's fans are often implying. Yeah. Oh, really? Oh, really? They think she's got a thing for Erica. Well, Eric is a lesbian. But basically, yeah, like a lot of the Candace first,

I'm not sure if Candice herself has done it, I'm pretty sure she has. But a lot of the kind of like the broader allies will definitely be like, oh, Erica's a lesbian. You know, this was this kind of mercenary marriage with Charlie. Intriguing. Speaking of shows that have lost some juice,

the Charlie Kirk show itself, it's been replaced. He's got a couple of guys that do it now under his name still. And they had Eric Schmidt on yesterday after his performance confusing the Hawks with the Hawkeyes. And they like pretended like he nailed Jack Smith. Like, it had happened. He had already been caught by Amy Klobuchar.

These two dofaces have him on. And they're just like, you got him there, buddy. And you do wonder if that's why the Charlie Kirk shows fall into 60 first place in the current rankings, the news rankings. It's kind of lost some altitude. So maybe that's a risk for Candace as well. Yeah, that was pretty embarrassing. Yeah, that was humiliating. But they were the only ones, right?

Like Benny Johnson put up a tweet being like, wow. It's why they put up a tweet. It's another thing to have Eric Schmidt on. after he did like the biggest self-own in the history of the Senate and be like, dude, you really got him with that Hawks game text.

Like you had the text. And then for Eric Schmidt to sit there and be like, yep, I did. It's like, what? There's nothing to add to it. I have a little shame.

Yeah. All right. I want to talk about the Indian question. This got kicked up when Beau French in Texas, posted about how he's upset, that there were so many Indian kids at the UT game. Maybe something he's dealing with internally. And then there have been some discussions, some Chris Rufo was on a podcast where they discussed the Indian question about whether the magazine did do more Indian deportations.

And the guys, Will, you find this for me, the guys at the Black Rifle Coffee, one of those guys engaged in this discourse? Yeah, so this is not Black Rifle Coffee themselves. This is what is called more broadly sort of like a Black Rifle Coffee vet bro. So like this is a story that pits. Okay. So Black Rifle Coffee has spawned like a specific type of like fan. It's kind of like a Swifty. Like you're a Swifty, but for Black Rifle Coffee.

These are content creators. So the guy in question here is a guy named Dan Holdaway who has like a, he's a vet. He's kind of got a macho man podcast. And then it's kind of like, you know, these guys are very into black rifle coffee. They're into, you know, it's almost kind of soy, to be honest with you. It's kind of like they love their gear and their guns. and whatever. And so,

but the key thing about these guys is they're not, they're kind of like a more traditional Republican approach to racism. They aren't just saying like, that's an Indian guy. Like, get him. And so this Dan Holdaway guy, he tweeted, you know, you young guys, you groipers need to shape up

and stop being racist towards Indian people. Unfortunately, he deleted the tweet, which is why we're going to get into why. But basically, he really picked a fight with the Groypers. Then they started saying, all right, who's this Dan Holdaway guy,

thinks he's our dad or whatever. And they said, wait a minute, this guy six months ago got married to a very prominent adult film actress. A lady, by the way, no,

I've certainly never heard of her folks, but named Ava. Ava Lovia, and I think she has something like 500,000 fans on one of these sites. Something like that. Did you do a vet? Did you just so quick vets?

I'm getting this all third or fourth hand. You went to a page. Ava Lovia? We're on the Bowmore computer network. It's fine. It's for research. Go ahead. We don't have a porn filter?

You know, this lady has done. Looking at your ex-account. Kind of the race play stuff. Some race play. I guess my point being that the Groypers are saying, you're telling me how to live this trad guy lifestyle. Your wife's a porn star, man. And so then he locks down his account.

He kind of freaks out. His wife is standing strong, though. She's now kind of like a libertarian podcast persona herself. and people are like, your husband's a cuck or whatever. And she's like, he's not a cuckold. There's not a humiliation aspect to my performances. You know, I mean, it's very like in the weeds. But point being, but she's an honest, she is still, this is not like she was once a porn

she was an act of like a few years ago and now she's still on Only fans. So it's like, you know, we're still in the industry more broadly. And I guess my point being here, look, I wish this couple the best. Unfortunately, if you are trying to pose as like a conservative moral arbiter, particularly to whip these rowdy reapers in line, I think you're going to have to kind of, you know, get these things sort of about. I have an idea for her.

What was her name again? Ava Lovejoy. Ava, yeah. Love you. Love you. Love you. I think that she would do numbers on her only fans if she kind of did something with like a famous Indian man.

Oh my God. You know, and they did kind of a collab. She did a collab with like an Indian porn star. I don't know who that would be. I'm not very, I'm not deep in the porn ove. it would certainly get a lot of reaction.

Yeah. So that's something to think about. I could have a whole sort of theme. You could do it like kind of kind of an appoo from the Simpsons. Why not go all the way and do a lesbian seed with Candace? I don't know if Candace is ready for that. Complete the circle. Man, you are continuing to see, I think, a pretty interesting trend is a backlash

against any conservative who wants to do kind of respectability politics on race. And we saw this as Sarah Alcobee Sanders this week. She did an ad with a welfare recipient. People were mad that it was a white guy. And I don't know. The online youth on the right are not giving an inch. Yeah. In that case, right, as you said, basically they were mad.

It was a white guy rather than, you know, they were black single mom. Essentially is what they wanted to see. And, you know, even people like Will Chamberlain. who were not like, Grapers. They were just like, this is a disaster, you know,

Jack Posobic. The one thing to note about the Indian question discussion, and that's what they called it, on the Blaze, was Christopher Rufo's wife is from Thailand,

and he still has to say, like, I understand, man, like, I understand why people would want to have all white neighbors. I mean, you can really,

I guess my point being, you can see sort of which wing is ascendant there. All right. Final thing, there's a big Washington Post story on the Groyperette and her,

her leaving the Groyper world and she was doing, she's down on the interview circuit. I don't know. I'm not sure I'm buying it. I agree with you, Tim. I do like to have people who have had earnest transitions,

you know, onto the show. We can discuss it through. I don't know if I'm seeing it here with Ms. Groyper at. But she did have an interesting exchange about kind of the initiation fee, if you will, into Groyperism. And I'd like to play that for everybody.

They made it very well known to us post-event. If you're a Groyper, that means they actually told me this. Who's they? The Gropers. On a Twitter space. On a Twitter space, they said, you need to suck Nick Fuentes' dick. We would all do it. We would all suck as dick.

If you don't agree with everything Nick Fuentes says, you're a traitor. And so that's what Groyper became. Hmm. That means that literally you have to suck his dick or figuratively? It's unclear. Basically what happened here is that this lady, you know, they held a rival event and kind of tried to claim groperism for the road and they got knocked back pretty harsh. But I just love her husband there. I mean, their career has been destroyed.

Her husband just saying like, yeah, apparently if you're a coriper, you got a suck Nick Fuentes' dick. And that podcast host, by the way, is a notorious criminal himself. He's seen some stuff. He starts, he's going, oh, Jesus. You got to blow Nick Fuentes. Oh, my God. Not a lot of regular guys in the Groyper world. Do you know, I'm going on?

Watching football, betting on the game, you know. And this is why Eric Schmidt gets into trouble. All right. You've got guys like this who are into Nick. Who are staffing. I mean, how many GOP Senate staffers do you think of Sockton Nick Flintes' dick? More than a few. I think metaphorically many.

But yes, that's it all come out. This has got to be up there with our most depraved shows ever. I mean, we've gone from like. one sexual story to another. Well, Sam, I'll tell you what, I've been saving. It's been a little while since we've had a trio, and I've been saving. I got a little tab for trio, so I've been saving it. Is there like a tab within the tab, like deranged sex tab?

X, X, X, X, Trio. Do you have any false flags coming up? Do you want to promote, Will? Anything, any little teasers for people? Yes. So our upcoming false flag is about the Daily Wire's new pro-ice movie that has absolutely royaled a town in Montana. They redo the Renee Good

shooting, but in sort of like a way that was like ICE was justified and it kind of used, they use that to kick off the thriller. And a lot of residents there are not happy about it. Tell them the best part. We got the script. And we got the script, folks. So, so, you know, let me tell you, do you need to see this one?

You know, do you need to pre-buy tickets now, like the Odyssey? You'll have to read false flag to find out. There's a whole subgenre of false flags where you're just reviewing bad daily wire. movie content. It's like our third or fourth there. Subscribe to the False Slig newsletter. If you're in Montana, support Sam Forrestag, who would not be on board with pro-Rene Good murder movies being created, and subscribe over on Bullwork Takes for more content like this. You have no idea the depravity that's

coming up next. Thank you, Sam. Thank you, Will. Thank you to Maria Kamala. What might have been, you know, in a different world between us. Who knows? It's just two crazy kids. You never know how things are going to turn out. Everybody, we'll see you back here tomorrow with somebody I've never tried to kiss. We'll see you later. Peace. When there's Hankie-Panky at T-BUSA,

Groot was Grip to J-6 as Mar-R-Lago horseplay. You got the trio, the trio has a singing girlfriend and the gay Maga-Cruis. A bad tear your carc is left in Central Park, too. The Bullwark Daily is brought to you thanks for the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, Associate producer Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Dante DeChico and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.