The Bulwark Podcast - Pete Buttigieg and A.B. Stoddard: Talk Is Cheap

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

Trump likes to promise a manufacturing renaissance as though one isn't going on right now. But we also had a manufacturing recession when he was in office—and that was before Covid.  Plus, Kamala hits her stride talking about her plans, Clay Higgins is a lying, racist thug, the Democratic Party keeps holding lawbreakers to account, and we can see in Elise Stefanik's eyes how much she is faking it.  Pete Buttigieg and A.B. Stoddard join Tim Miller.

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At Dawn Valley North, Dawn Valley North for Lexus is the place. See website for details. Expect excellence. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. Hey, everybody, we got a double header for you today. I'm just so pumped to finally have Mayor Pete on the podcast. And yes, it's Mayor Pete because he actually follows the Hatch Act, unlike Kellyanne Conway. And so he was not on the podcast in his role as Secretary Pete Buttigieg. He was on the podcast in his role as Secretary Pete Buttigieg. He was on the podcast in his role as a surrogate for Kamala Harris. As such, I was unable to confront him about my list of complaints about the construction on Claiborne Avenue, the new TSA machines, or any of my other issues, transportation department related, permitting reform. So we'll have to get all of that another time.

We also taped this Wednesday afternoon. And so at the end of the pod, I've got a bonus segment with A.B. Stoddard, where we cover Eric Adams' indictment, Kamala Harris' interview with Stephanie Ruhle, and racist Clay Higgins. So stick around for that at the end. with somebody that, you know, we've been a pretty big supporter of here. You might have heard of him. His name is Pete Buttigieg. He's just, he'll always be Mayor Pete to me. What's happening, man? Hey, good to be with you. How you doing? No matter what, I feel like you could become president and you would still kind of be Mayor Pete. Is that possible?

I'll always gladly answer to that. Well, you've been given a pretty important role, which is embodying J.D. Vance in debate prep. And we don't want to give J.D. any tips. So we're not going to go too deep into that. But I am a little bit worried about you from the Vonnegut standpoint of, you know, you are what you pretend to be. So be careful what you pretend to be. So just be a little careful. I'm going into that headspace, but hopefully I'm going to be able to find my way back out of it. It's interesting in there. I bet it is.

At the very end, I have one exercise related to being inside J.D. Vance's brain I want to get to. But before we do that, I want you to take a listen to what the man that you are embodying had to say about North Carolina gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson's peccadillo, shall we say. Let's listen to two different times where J.D. had to answer about this. Do you believe him that those were not his posts? I don't not believe him. I don't believe him. I just think that you have to let these things sometimes play out in the court of public opinion. A sex scandal in North Carolina is between the lieutenant governor and the people of North Carolina. They're going to make their decision and we support them. Very postmodern there. What do you think? Yeah, I don't not believe him. I don't believe him. That's interesting. Maybe I could say the same thing of J.D. I don't not believe him, but I definitely don't believe him when he says that he's not sure what happened out

there. And like, look, they've endorsed this guy, right? It's not like he's being asked to comment on some, you know, obscure Swedish parliamentarian, like this is their guy to be governor in a really critical state where they're also competing for the presidency. So like, you kind of need to go ahead and stake out a position. And they already did, right? Their position, they endorsed him. So their position is, you know, this guy ought to be governor. And if you're not changing it, that's your answer, right? The answer is, they're okay with this guy. And in a way, we shouldn't be so shocked, right? Because before he was describing himself as a Nazi on a porn site, he was already saying that, you know, some people just need killing and all kinds of other kind of shocking things. If that didn't put you off, and the things he was saying in public, you know, the things he was doing in private, while, you know, certainly even further out there, probably aren't changing the picture that much for you. Your campaign, part of what I

was alluding to earlier is that you were you were trying really hard to reach out to these future former Republican types, and have spoken about the change that we've seen in the party. It's pretty notable that these are the types of people that the party continues to attract. And like you're seeing it at the national level, obviously with Trump at the top of the ticket, but you're seeing at the local level, I'm sure you're seeing this in Indiana and Michigan and all across the country. Yes, but I would also say we're seeing some other things happening at the local level. Springfield, Ohio, you're seeing an incredible amount of decency from people who may not even change how they're voting, but definitely don't want to be associated with going after a vulnerable population. One woman who a phone call was traced back to her that she thought her cat had been taken when she realized it hadn't. You know, she had the decency to apologize to her neighbor.

I don't know if that means she's changing her vote, but the point is we can actually be a lot more decent up close sometimes. And I also think that, you know, there are a lot of Republicans who are just as horrified by the kind of nonsense you're seeing out of whether it's Mark Robinson or Donald Trump himself. I wish more of them would speak up, but I don't think there has ever been a Democratic convention with as many Republican speakers as we just had. I guess I haven't gone back and run the numbers, but I cannot imagine that there's ever been a time when more Republicans have been willing to

come over and say, actually, this time you got to be with the Democrat. A coalition that includes everybody from Dick Cheney to Bernie Sanders is really saying something. And my hope is that that, you know, if all goes well, is I know this sounds optimistic, but it opens up the potential that the aftermath of a Trump defeat, among many other necessary results that would come from that would include a return to a comparatively normal Republican Party, which even though I might not ever be a member of the Republican Party as an American, I think we need to have like a normal, healthy Republican Party that is as committed to democracy as the Democratic Party so that that's not a partisan issue anymore. I love that sunny optimism. I don't know that I share it, but I like

the instinct. On this point, though, types of republicans and reaching out to them i i have a game i ask usually the types of people you're talking about uh prominent uh anti-trump republicans and that i usually don't ask democrats of this but since you spend so much time on fox so much time talking to republicans i'm curious your view what do you think is the most potent message to somebody that's listening? It's like, yeah, my dad or my friend, they're not a MAGA Republican. They're not putting on the hat, but they've been Republican their whole life. They didn't like January 6th. They don't like Trump's favor. What would your core message be? Like when you're going on Fox, when you're speaking to those people, what do you think is the most compelling? I think probably the message for a lot of those folks is look for you. This might not be a policy election. So, you know, I think probably the message for a lot of those folks is, look, for you, this might not be a policy election. So, you know, I think, look, a strong majority of Americans agree with Kamala Harris on most big policies. But of course, if you're a committed, lifelong Republican, you probably don't agree with her on taxes or abortion or a lot of other things. We can go back to fighting about those things later politically, though.

Right now, this is about something else. And I think, you know, when you look at the lead of somebody like, you know, a Dick Cheney, a Dick Cheney didn't just become liberal on, I'm guessing, anything, right? By the way, neither is Liz Cheney or a lot of these folks. Like, they didn't change their policies. They just understand that there's something that transcends policy when you have somebody so profoundly unfit to serve running for president. I think that's the core. Now, a secondary message that I try to get out there, especially when I'm in spaces like Fox News, is about results. Because there's less of a

difference between us and Republican friends in terms of the results we want to see than in terms of how we want to get there. For example, Democrats want crime to go down, Republicans want crime to go down, right? So probably important for Republicans to know about the fact that it went up under Trump and then it's gone down under Biden-Harris. Investments in factories in America, right? I think that's something that no matter where you are in terms of economic policy and populism and tariffs and taxes, pretty much all of us want to see more factories getting built in America. So worth pointing out that we had a manufacturing recession in the Trump years. That was before COVID, by the way. And we've got historic levels of manufacturing

investment going on right now. So you go on down the list, even on things that in terms of results, Republicans may be most focused on, and we can point to some pretty good results. I'm sorry, I have to object to that because I was listening to Donald Trump in Savannah, Georgia this week, and he's talking about a manufacturing renaissance that's happening with him. Let's take a listen. We had created 650,000 manufacturing jobs before we even got ready to do it. And now we're ready. We're ready to do it.

And the country's ready to do it. We need it. We have to have it. We need a renaissance. It's going to be a renaissance. But this horrific nightmare for American workers ends the day I take the oath of office, January 28th. Chill down my spine. Is that not, that's not right? If he thinks 650,000 manufacturing jobs is good, wait till he hears about the more than 800,000 that we've created

in this last three and a half years as a country. I think it's one and a half million if you add up construction and manufacturing. So I don't know what he means by like, we're ready to do it. I don't know what, that doesn't make any sense. And remember, he always talks as a lot of hucksters do in terms of what's going to happen, what's about to happen. You know, just give me a chance. It'll be like, you've never, it's almost become like this weird tick he has right like you've never seen before it's going to be this thing like you've never seen before we've never seen anything like you've never seen and i think you know folks have gotten like kind of tired of that bored with it but also it's like very easy to go back and check right there was a manufacturing recession before covid under donald trump like

that's a thing that happened it It definitely happened. And right now, we got levels of manufacturing construction. I mean, where I come from, Central County, Indiana, the biggest thing to happen in the 50 years between 1963 when Studebaker closed and 2012 when I became mayor was this $1 billion investment in a steel plant. That was in 1990. And people were still talking about it 20 years later when I took office. Right now, we had a $4 billion investment in an EV-related factory in St. Joe County, Indiana, an $11 billion data and AI-related facility from Amazon, another one that's multi-billion dollars from Microsoft. People know that's happening in their neighborhood so look he's he's always gonna you know talk a good game it's what he does he talked

a good game about an infrastructure bill but guess what he didn't pass one yeah so you know talk is cheap the stories kind of connect right like the manufacturing story in the springfield story like why are people moving into springfield like why are some of these towns being revitalized and and necessarily some of the towns being revitalized and necessarily some of the jobs being filled by immigrants, right? It's because of the growth in the last three and a half years. Totally. I mean, this is another city that was losing people. I mean, they lost thousands and thousands of people in Springfield. Now, it can be a real concern and issue when you have a sudden population growth and coping with that really is a challenge.

But I'd much rather have the problem of a rapidly growing community than a shrinking community, which is what they used to be. And yeah, the number, it's not like a bunch of people came in to compete for the same jobs. The jobs are growing and the population's growing, which of course, if you're the mayor of the city, that's what you're trying to have happen. Not without growing pants, but like, that's what you're trying to have happen. More jobs, more people. I want to talk about one other issue that I hear a lot of complaints from, particularly from kind of the Wall Street Republican crowd, the 2%, like the kind of the high-end country club crowd. And that's this issue of unrealized capital gains. I don't know if that's a big issue for the forgotten man, but Trump might have thought so. I want to listen

to Trump talking about this issue the other day. But more importantly, it's called an unrealized capital gain. You know what that is? That means that you're going to pay a capital gain even if you haven't realized it, even if you haven't sold. So a lot of people are rich, but they don't have cash. Now they're going to have to get cash because if their thing goes up in value, they have to pay a massive tax. You're going to have deterioration. You're going to have a depression. If that happens, you have a 1929 style depression. Okay. Number one, is this going to happen? And number two, how do people in St. Joe's County feel about the unrealized capital gains issue? Yeah. I don't think this is a huge thing

that's top of mind for the UAW workers where I come from. I don't think they're sitting on, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars in unrealized capital gains. I also think, again, like we've been here before, right? You know when else he said there would be a huge depression? He said there'd be a huge depression if Joe Biden got elected president. And of course, the opposite happened, right? Better economic growth, certainly dramatically better economic record than Donald Trump. So they always say this. Now, look, I think there is a debate about how to make sure that if you are super duper rich, you're paying at least roughly the same proportion of your income that like a school teacher or firefighter or soldier is paying like that. That seems important. The VP's put out what she thinks the just capital gains tax ought to be not not unrealized, just plain old capital gains.

Lower than it's been in the past, but higher than it would be under Trump. And I think that's a way to, you know, if you're serious about deficits and you're serious about funding the things we're doing, it's a good way to strike the balance. I'm sure unrealized capital gains are a problem for a billionaire like Donald Trump. I don't think that's really something that's a huge issue in most working class communities in the industrial Midwest. It's good to hear it's just the realized capital gains for the three listeners that that's a big issue for. You mentioned the deficit. So are we serious about deficits? I like that you mentioned that you threw that in there. If you're serious about deficits, raising capital gains tax and others, you got to look at some of these things. But it's hard for me to find anybody

that's serious about deficits out there. Well, look, yeah, I think there has been a bipartisan willingness to do a lot of deficit spending. I think up to a point that that can make sense when it's to invest in things like infrastructure that if you get it right, helps build up our supply side, helps fight inflation by unstarling supply chains. There's a million other reasons why it's worth doing. But you need revenue.

Like that's part of it, right? You need discipline and you need revenue. We think more of the revenue ought to come from folks who are currently paying less proportionally than working class Americans. That's important. That's just like the kind of sticker rate, right? We also have to collect what people ought to be paying by making sure that a lot of rich people can't cheat on their taxes.

And again, for the three listeners you have who maybe are very wealthy and cheating on your taxes, I apologize, but like, that's got to go, right? That's what the policies around like giving the IRS computer systems that aren't from the 80s and giving them enough personnel to do their job is about, right? I mean, clearly pay for itself in terms of revenue. This is not, you know, going after grandma, unless grandma's running a multimillion dollar tax scam, in which case, like, sorry, but like, she's gonna have to pay too. Prize Picks is America's number one daily fantasy sports app with over 5 million active members.

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me tell you earlier this week on monday night football we had lsu on lsu joe burrow versus jayden daniels and uh you know i felt like felt like I had some scoop on this. I felt like I knew what was going to be happening in this game. I got in heavy on Jamar Chase, the LSU wide receiver that Joe Burrow throws to. I knew he was going to have a big game against the Commanders. We're calling them the Commanders now. And you know what?

I was right. Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase didn't win the game, but Jamar Chase did hit his over on catches, yards, touchdowns. And, you know, it's a fun way to watch a game, especially if you already missed getting in on a fantasy team at the beginning of the season. Download the PrizePick app today and use code BULWORK and get 50 bucks instantly when you play $5.

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reluctant to endorse Kamala Harris. And I disagree with it, but everybody can do what they think is right for themselves. But in these videos, she said that, you know, people need to do their own research on the administration's actions, particularly on LGBT issues. So I have a two part question for you. Number one, do you have a favorite Chapel Roan song? And number two, for those doing their research now, can you help them brush up on what Kamala Harris can run on re-LGBTQ issues? Sure. So the answer on the first one is I'm not cool enough to have a favorite chapel round song. Everybody from my staff to chest and are like trying to educate me. So we'll see if I catch up.

Nothing. It's like, if I said hot to go, does that even ring a bell for you? Yeah, it rings a bell. I'm just, you know, and it's clearly the right answer. Could you, could you hum it? Do you think nothing good comes from me humming or singing? Yeah, that's just what I was going to do. All right, all right.

That's fine. I appreciate your candor. I appreciate your candor. All right. I'll go back to like, I guess what? Share? What's your wheelhouse? I'll ask you for some classics next time.

Go to the oldies. All right. So just trust us that Chaperone has become popular while you've been being secretarian, et cetera. I'm aware that she's extremely important. So, look, first of all, you know, we had a bill on whether gay marriage counts. We had a bill on whether if you're in a same-sex marriage, that ought to be protected. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris supported it.

Most congressional Republicans opposed it. It passed because a handful of Republicans voted with the Democrats and we got it. We would have a bill called the Equality Act, which says that you can't discriminate against people just because they're LGBTQ plus protections against discrimination, you know, on gender identity, sexual orientation. Kamala Harris is for it. Trump fans are against it. So like, there's a super clear choice, not just if you're a married gay dad like me, but really across the LGBTQ plus community. I'm all for folks doing their own

research, check it out. And of course, the other thing that you don't have to go deep into a lot of research to discover is the way that Republicans in general and Trump fans among them have sought to score points by attacking some of those vulnerable people in our society, like transgender students. And drag bands, some of these states, I'm sorry, the free speech party. Drag bands, book bands, don't say gay. I mean, yeah, free speech unless your speech is gay, I guess, is kind of what they're about. This is a real issue. Look, I think if the fall of Roe versus Wade taught us anything, it's that when a right is established in this country, that doesn't mean that that right or that freedom or that protection is durable unless you defend it. And I think, you know, when you think about all the gains yet to be made and all the gains that have been made in the direction of LGBTQ plus equality, a lot is at stake in what's about to happen in this election six weeks from now. Not just Trump bans, but like closer to home where a lot of these same people pushing book bans, drag bans, don't say gay are about to be on the ballot. And frankly, a lot of

the most important decisions are made closer to home, the state legislature, a school board. So if you're doing your own research, research that. There's a point that she made as well. So we have an alignment now between Pete and Chappell and me. We all agree you should do your research on the local candidates. Shouldn't have needed to do that much research on Trump versus Harris, but okay, we'll give everybody a pass and we can create a curve. I will say one other thing on this topic, because gays can like sports too. I was watching college football this weekend. The ads that the Trump people are running,

targeting gays, non-binary Americans, trying to turn the weird thing around, targeting individuals that you know have served in in the biden harris administration who are non-binary or trans is like really gross and disgusting the types of ads that they're running so it's not i mean it's an active campaign targeting these groups from the other side totally i mean this this is not just like some obscure part of their policy platform this is like a political strategy in a very destructive way okay one another group i want to talk to you about you you are i think

famously the sort of go everywhere man it was the sense of your campaign you know my girl liz smith was as a supportive of that strategy but you're executing on it you're going you're doing interviews with the hostile interviews friendly interviews there's like one place that Democrats aren't really going right now, and it's frustrating me. And that is the young male bro, if you will, podcast world. Like Bernie talked to Theo Vaughn and good on him. But like besides that, it's like basically zero. And I don't know if you're the right guy for that. Maybe you are, or if you can recruit some of your bro-ier colleagues. It feels like there's a gap here in the Democratic outreach, particularly when it comes to younger, kind of 20-something men.

And I'm not talking about the MAGA Turning Point USA. I'm talking about kind of the non-political, bro-y kind of male. What can the Democrats do better there? No, I think that's real. I think there's an opportunity to do more engagement, more outreach there, because I think we have a good message. Look, I think, first of all, anybody young, man, woman, gay, straight, has the most at stake in what's about to happen to our society. Climate stuff, equality, a lot of issues there. But also, I think it's important to arrive and share a little perspective on what it's like when we don't have the economic growth that other than COVID has been

the unbroken experience of anybody who came of age, you know, in the last 10 to 15 years, right? I mean, if you weren't kind of an adult for the Great Recession recession then you really haven't seen a shrinking economy you haven't seen the things that could happen when you have that that kind of other than covid obviously uh and covid i would say is 9 11 like if you're 25 you're two during 9 11 right i mean look it's a little scary to think about but but you're my age. I'm thinking about 9-11. 9-11 is as distant for somebody starting college now as almost as Vietnam was for me when I got to college. It's a history book thing, or it's getting to be in that territory. So we got to talk about things in a way that doesn't just assume that there's the same base of lived experience. It's a painful thing for millennials, especially elder millennials like me to admit, but it's real. Okay, well, let's talk about it. I'd like to see out there a little bit more,

more anyone really, more is more. I just, I do feel like the Democrats have a miss on this demo. I want to ask you about another person we know in common. You went to college with Elise Stefanik. I used to work with her. I've been thinking about your kind of JD role play and people, and they cite that you're doing this they cite kind of your debating skills and like that you and JD are both from the midwest and etc but I you also really knew Elise right and

and Elise and JD are pretty much the same I guess the same trajectory and so I'm wondering if you have any insight on what's going do you ever see her in dc like what's going on with that yeah i uh i have not talked to her in a while but you know what i'll say is you know there are a lot of people who really respected and appreciated and liked her while disagreeing on politics you know people both republicans and democrats who really appreciated her intellect and it's tough with someone like her or somebody like GD, or so many people who you know know better. Like it's one thing if you're dealing with like a Marjorie Taylor Greene, who like maybe she believes all that crazy stuff.

I don't know. It's certainly plausible. There's a lot of people who know better, and we know they know better because they said so in 2015, in 2016, J.D. Vance eloquently talking about why Donald Trump was bad news. I mean, he didn't just say he was bad news. He said he was an opioid. Think about what it means for somebody whose entire identity is that you're from Appalachia, which is J.D.''s big thing, right? A place that is destroyed by opioids. To choose that term of all terms to describe Trumpism, to say it was an opioid, kind of a cultural heroine. I think those were his words, cultural heroine. He wrote this,

you know, back when JD was a Silicon Valley intellectual, he wrote this amazing piece for The Atlantic about Trump and Trumpism. So you know that he knows better. Sometimes you can even see the look in their eyes as their wheels are turning. And a lot of these members of Congress, like you see it, because they figure out that their path to power is to staple themselves to a guy like Donald Trump. And when Trumpism passes, and I don't know when that'll be, I don't know if it'll be buried the day after election day this cycle, or if we'll be dealing with it for another generation. But what I know is when it passes, people like that will have a lot of explaining to do. And I don't know how they

will account for their choices, even though the reasons for their choices are not actually that complicated or that interesting. It's just power. Makes it hard, right? I that interesting it's just power makes it hard like right i mean it's hard to envision like a beer summit with elise when this is all over right it's tough just because of how ugly it's been you know yeah which is too bad because i you know her friends miss her all right we're going we're moving to game time we've got a couple just rapid fires for you the first one we'll do the role play first. All right. I asked J.D. Vance to come on this podcast. You wouldn't do it.

So you've been playing, J.D., so you're going to be the closest I can get. So I just want to just do a little prep here. So you're J.D. right now. And who's doing the moderating? CBS, right? Margaret Brennan or O'Donnell, I think. Oh, yeah, I'll be Margaret. I'll be Margaret.

I like Margaret Brennan. Okay. J.D., as your phone just said, you once said Donald Trump was an opiate for the people donald i think oh yeah i'll be margaret i'll be margaret i like margaret brennan okay jd as as your phone just said uh you once said donald trump was an opiate for the people that you claim to represent you said that god wants better for us than donald trump she said that conservatives know that mass deportations don't work what are you doing here man what are you doing here trying to be vice president at all costs, including my own dignity. You're not revealing what you think his real answer is going to be.

No, but look, it's not like a strategic secret that he has this whole thing about how he came around. He bought into the media narrative, the false media narrative, and then he came around after he saw the results. But it's a profoundly ironic answer because, you know, as I've mentioned on everything from crime to, you know, factories growing up in the Midwest, the results were not good and they were definitely worse than the current administration. I've got one more for you, which is JD related on the rapid fire front. You're pretty busy. You have the two children. You're a cabinet secretary. You're doing a lot of podcasts. You're out, you're prepping Tim Walls. So I assume that your seven languages, you're getting a little rusty. So my pop quiz for you is, are you able to criticize J.D. Vance in French, Arabic, or Norwegian? Oh, wow.

All right. I'll give you three choices. I think. Is that how you do it in Norwegian? We definitely have a Norwegian listener that will be judging you. It's certain that he knows better than what he sees. Okay, well, I'm just going to have to wait for the reveal. I'm not going to have you tell me what you tried to say.

Somebody can look it up and tell me how it is. Is there a key word that you want us to start with for looking up? Is there one key word, an English word in there that you're trying to that would be bad let's take a look at it final let's end on a positive you know i'm just it's not a secret so and we're just gonna say it i mean i was i was more of a shapiro or buddha person on the vp list i've been tim wall has been pleasantly surprising me. I haven't got a chance to have him on yet.

There's a lot to like about Tim Wall. You've got to hang out with him a bunch. So I just want to leave us with, is there anything that has kind of surprised you about him during this prep or kind of an insight you've got into him that you might not have had before you've had all this face time? I'm surprised by the Diet Mountain Dew. I didn't know that that uh both

running mates have have that in common a lot of diet mountain dew going around no look i he is a very uh what you see is what you get kind of person i i got to know a little bit through work before but as i've gotten on better through this process uh have found that you know and look obviously this is part of his appeal is he's kind of exactly who he says he is. He's exactly how he comes off. And I think what's really important about a guy like him with a career like his is he's chosen a career that you only can thrive in if you get that it's not about you. And that's what all these different – as a teacher, an NCO in the military, football coach, right? A coach is measured by how well your players do.

A sergeant is measured by how well your soldiers do. A teacher is measured by how well your students do. So what all of that has in common is it's not about you. That ethos is obviously less automatically abundant in jobs like, you know, governors and members of Congress. But I think he's brought that kind of spirit to those jobs. And I think that's what he's bringing to the ticket and what he'll bring to the vice presidency. So I'm an even bigger fan now that I've had a chance to get to know him well. I love to hear that. Thank you so much for being on the podcast,

Mayor Pete Buttigieg. Hopefully Tim Walz is hot to go next week. I'm going to be back on the other side with A.B. Stoddard stick around from that we'll see you soon peace all right we are back playing cleanup for Pete Buttigieg. It's A.B. Stoddard. What's up, A.B.? This is like the Mount Rushmore of bulwark guests that people are going to be going crazy. Okay, so putting me after Pete? Like, what was...

What's that about? This was like Doug, when Doug had to learn that he was going to be speaking in prime time with the obamas he was like he was like brock and michelle obama and me that's going to be the lineup for the night um you know so tim i'm supposed to come before pete okay well i'm sorry but i think that the uh i think that the people when they see pete buddha on their app they're like hoping for pete So we're going to start with Pete and then get to AB. There's a lot of AB material, though. We have so much to talk about since I taped Pete.

Like, the news just doesn't stop, you know? Can we just talk about Pete? Why don't you tell us what you think about Pete? Yeah, my heart belongs to Pete. I know there's, like, a lot of people competing at the Bulwark to be the biggest Pete stan, but there's no one. No one. no one's fingers i would rather have the nuclear button no one i would rather have uh negotiating with g and putin i'm completely serious about this i'm not i'm not joking around i believe he's the most interested

and disciplined and measured and prepared he takes everything he does so seriously yeah i just think his measure his he's not paralyzed by caution but he's not arrogant where he is on that scale to me it just i just trust him as a person and i and then i just think he's an amazing person you know that my favorite pete story you know that the translation in the hospital anecdote, right? Listeners might not though. So there's an ER doctor in South Bend and there is a Somali boy who's very ill and they need someone to come in and speak Arabic to the family and they can't find a translator. And finally, a guy shows up in a nice suit and tie and he helps translate to the family with the doctor through the boys

really ill and then the doctor thanks him and says how long have you worked with our hospital to be a translator and he says i'm not a translator i'm mayor pete you know he never felt the need to you know whatever all i wanted to do is help out and i just that that anecdote is from years ago we learned it in 2019 or whatever it really spoke to me about who he is you've definitely surpassed me on the pete stand-up i like pete fine but that is something and when in your answer there was i didn't know where your fingers on sentence was going to go there for a second so i was getting a little bit nervous about just how great, how big your feet were.

We got to the nuclear button. I was like, phew, the nuclear button. Okay, I was getting a little nervous about where the podcast was headed. And you are much more earnest in your people. I used in the last segment, my language gag was I asked him to insult JD Vance in Norwegian.

So I'm excited to hear the Norwegian listener or two and let them know how we did. Okay, we've got three topics to bang through really quick you get to pick when we start you want eric adams do you want racist clay higgins or kamala and stephanie rule which where should we go dealer's choice um let's go um with harris with the interview i thought she was pretty good i want to play there were two clips that warmed my cockles. And so I just want to play one of those. Why don't we listen to Kamala Harris talking about housing.

For people who want to buy a home, yes, getting a $25,000 kicker would be great. But it's not just affording a home. We don't have enough in this country. You're absolutely right. And one of the main problems are regulations and rules, strict, strict rules at a local level. How does the federal government cut through all that red tape and get down to, I know, the suburbs of Pittsburgh and say, we're going to have to build some affordable housing here? How do you connect the two? So you're absolutely right. So across our country, people rightly are concerned about the cost of housing.

So is homeownership, to your point. We need more supply. That is, without any question, part of the solution. Creating more supply under my plan includes creating tax incentives to work with the private sector and home builders. Part of my goal and the plan would be to create 3 million new housing units for rent and for ownership by the end of my first term. It includes also what we must do to cut red tape. You're absolutely right. It takes far too long and there's too much bureaucracy associated with home building. And I say that as a devout public servant.

I know that we have to reduce the red tape and speed up what we need to do around building. And that is going to require working from the federal level with state and local governments. I mean, she just she's coming right for me with that. That was pretty nice. Well, what'd you think? We're cutting red tape, where the bureaucrats are standing in the way. And that sounds good. What'd you think about that answer? Just the interview, probably. Tim, you're so cute that you you fell the Yimby. You're like the poster boy for Yimby and you went for the housing. But I did think it was one of her strongest answers because she has a specific goal and she talked about regulation and the bureaucracy and it was

specific. They need to incentivize. I thought it was really good. On the whole, you and I were together after her CNN interview and we were, I think at the time like high on relief yeah just the way to best characterize it i mean i what we weren't exuberant but we were like oh but looking back of course after last night she wasn't looking at dana bash she was looking down she was nervous it was a hideous uh set in the dark uh as everyone has gone over um and she's behind tim wallss. Tim Walls towering over her. I thought last night was, look, in the very beginning, she did seem, I got a little worried that some coconuts had fallen on her head in the first answer. I was like, no girl, stop with the dreams and aspirations and like, we got to land this

plane. But then I think she did it. I really do. I'm happier with the outcome than i think like jvl and mona were last night i think it was more than fine she had her politician the answers she certainly did that she circled you know back through but she had her buzzword she's going to grow wealth she's going to reduce red tape. I thought her answer on steel was excellent. And she really was confident and she was ready. And she had given the speech that day, of course, on these initiatives and on these details. But it's not like preparing for a debate, right? It is an exchange. And props to Stephanie. She asked her challenging question after challenging question.

It was not an easy interview. And so I thought that it was good that it was not an easy interview. And I thought Harris did a good job. And I think that people, remember, people are not sitting there thinking, well, unless they're interested in one of those new housing units, they're not focused on every answer. What they really want to hear, I think, is like they want a meta vibe that this woman is normal, confident, looks at the camera and has plans. And she's ready to talk about those plans.

Correct. I totally agree, by the way, with Stephanie. I thought it was a very well done interview. Here's one of the areas where she challenged Kamala. And it was another one of the answers I liked. I want to hear, listen to him talk about tariffs. Donald Trump's sort of big idea is this broad-based tariffs across the board. You and many others have said that would be not only disastrous, but it would be a direct tax on the American consumer. It would be a sales tax on the American people that the independent economists have already

measured this by his the sales tax of doing a 20% tariffs on all imports that he has described would be a 20% sales tax in essence on basic necessities for the average American worker average American family totaling totaling almost $4,000 a year. That is no small matter. Here in Pittsburgh, when I'm talking to a group of folks who work here, who live here, and when they hear it might be $4,000 more a year for them, look, people can't afford that. But tariffs aren't unique to President Trump. President Biden has tariffs in place.

He's actually looking to potentially implement more Where do you come out on? Is there a good tariff a bad tariff? Well part of it is you don't just throw around the idea of just tariffs across the board and that's part of the problem with Donald Trump, I frankly I I'm gonna and I say this in all sincerity he's just not very serious about how he thinks about some of these issues. And one must be serious and have a plan, any real plan that's not just about some talking point ending in an exclamation at a political rally. I like the substance of this.

I also like how she flips it on him, right? Like their argument against her is she's not serious. She hasn't given details. She's like, no, actually, that's not true. His BS is the stuff that's not serious. I agree with you. I liked the way she called him unserious, went to him at the rally. I just was talking about this with Billy yesterday.

I want her to hone the tariff response because I think it's a gift from Trump. This is his only answer to everything. I want her to hone the tariff response because I think it's a gift from Trump. This is his only answer to everything. Yeah. I want her to break it down better. I don't like Trump. We were talking about that. Remember when she called it the Trump sales tax? I think in her convention speech, she's used it before.

People don't understand it. They don't know if he actually introduced something like that. And I want her to say, you go to Walmart like we all do, and we buy Chinese goods, which we very much do. And there's a 60% across the board tariff on Chinese goods is what you're going to pay, you and me. I just want her to hone that and make it more explicit and digestible, because it's such a gift that his response to everything is tariffs.

He has no idea what he's talking about. It also puts Republicans in an uncomfortable corner. They're all opposed to his tariffs, including Rand Paul. And they're pretty, when asked about it, they're like, yep, they're inflationary. I mean, they're pretty blunt about it. So it's kind of a twofer, right? And so I feel like it's such a gift. I want her to have a punchier line on tariffs.

I agree. That's good feedback. Yeah. I mean, I'm actually starting to punch on it. I understand there's a reticence of like, tariff is a kind of a complicated word. Yeah. You know, you hear tariff in some people's mind starts to turn off. So it's like, I'm going to call it a sales tax instead. It is the issue where you're looking for in politics, things that divide the other side, you know, that wedge the other side. That's why it's a wedge issue. And like, this is one. So lean into it and have a little fun,

make fun of them. You know, like we're going to solve all of our problems with Donald Trump's magic tariff, you know, and crypto. Pay for childcare. Pay for childcare, the debt, you were to solve your loneliness, everything, just with these magic tariffs. Any other thoughts on the interview?

No, just more of them. She's hitting her stride. You know, I was really happy to see it. And I just want to, I want her to get out there. thoughts on on the interview no just more of them she's hitting her stride you know i'm i'm just really happy to see it and i just wanna i want her to get out there i think i like what they're doing i like the non-traditional media you know the podcast whatever i do like that but throw in some of this stuff so people just keep hearing plans plans plans yeah i got to listen to all all the smoke yet with the uh with the gold state warriors players i'm excited to listen to that podcast okay clay higgins this guy is a piece of shit there's an

old clip going around of him where he was like i really like my homeboy david duke but i guess he's kind of a nazi so i have to be i'm more for buchanan or something i'm paraphrasing but to give you a sense of how my fellow louisiana and clayins sees the world, he was all in for David Duke, just like right up to explicitly saying that he's a Nazi. Like that was the red line for him. Here's Clay Higgins, sitting congressman. LOL. These Haitians are wild. Eating pets. Voodoo. Nastiest country in the Western Hemisphere. Cults. Gangsters.

Damned if they don't feel all sophisticated now. Filing charges against our president and vp all these thugs better get their mind right and their ass out of our country before january 20th that person is a congressman so at the live show in last november in dc you were emceeing and asked who's the worst person and i actually said clay higgins because he had just at a homeland security hearing brought up the ghost buses conspiracy that he's come up with sitting up there with the other members and like asking you know moya orcas or some official i can't remember chris ray from the fbi might have been there. Anyway, it was insane. But he's

literally a danger. I mean, not only is he a complete and utter loathsome thug, he is a monster. He has a checkered past in law enforcement where he has been forced to resign once as a patrolman in Appaloosa for using unnecessary force. And then again, later on for lack of discipline and lack of professionalism. But he, I think in his time in the House, not only last year, like grabbed and shoved a protester outside the Capitol, but was, I think he did a podcast in a 3% or Oath Keepers t-shirt, like talking about how the 2020 election was stolen. He is literally a danger. And the reaction from Republicans on the Hill, Tim, just, I'm out of my mind. I'm so, it makes me so angry.

I know Mike Lawler's in a frontline seat in New York that Biden won, and he's got a huge Haitian community, and he spoke up and said that they're wonderful people. But, you know, Byron Donald's had a productive conversation with him, and they agreed it was a bad tweet. And Mike Johnson is the Speaker of the House who said that his friend is a frank and outspoken man, but he's a man of principle. So once he urged him to go to the corner of the House floor and pray on it and decide that he regretted it and take it down, everything's going to be fine

because we believe in redemption. Not holding to account members of Congress who are threatening Americans and who are racist, thugs yeah it's just beyond belief i don't have much to add to that you pretty much nailed it i i guess my only other thought is the preying on it thing really bothers me and mike judson actually didn't say that he regretted it he said that he prayed on it and he deleted it maybe did he say regret i i guess clay higgins hasn't said he regrets it or he apologizes or anything because Right, because Clay Higgins wanted everyone to know yesterday he doesn't respond to threats. Yeah. Is there a worse advertisement for Christianity?

Mike Johnson just pretending to be all religious, talking about how we prayed on this just despicably hateful racist tweet and like everything's okay now it's just like this is come on these these people are neighbor yeah these people are gross all right eric adams was there a more predictable indictment in history than eric adams i mean this guy screamed the sdny as soon as he won that mayor's race, they were licking their chops. Oh, man, this guy. So it seems like this is related to the investigation around Turkey and taking foreign money. I should note that Turkey also gives money to the Trump family. So I don't know that I have any big thoughts on this besides the fact that that deep state, you know, that really weaponized the government against Donald Trump keeps picking off Democrats too. Menendez, Adams.

Henry Cuellar. Henry Cuellar, yeah. And Hunter Biden. And we can't forget Hunter. There are so many things, maybe we should like write up a piece about this. There are so many things that Harrison Waltz should not be saying, but that other high profile surrogates should be saying around the clock and this is one of them the justice is blind yeah that the democratic party is holding lawbreakers to account and a bad guy's a bad guy it doesn't matter what party they're in and harris could say that that's great that's great

like the voters don't have to value this principle. I want them to, but they've let me down recently. But I still want someone shoving it in their face. Yeah, same. And hopefully the DNC, DSC, CDD trip can be on this. I'm just, I'm curious where, you mentioned Michael Aller earlier. Nicola Loda, John Avalon's running against Nick LaLotta, our friend,

Elise Stefanik, which we talked about in the last segment with Pete, where are they on this? I traditionally, you'd expect Elise to be the first one out talking about the corrupt democratic mayor who show, you know, it shows you all the Democrats,

but you can't do that. You can't do that when you're supporting somebody that's been indicted in four different jurisdictions. So it is interesting to hear that. I want to leave everybody with a little, with a little comedy, a little levity. Have you heard the worst answer that a politician has ever given in an interview? It was by Eric Adams. Have you heard this before? Do you know what I'm talking about?

No, but I'm so excited for this. This is Eric Adams, last December, talking about a New Year's resolution. Mr. Mayor, we've come to the end of what was a very eventful 2023, right? So when you look at the totality of the year, if you had to describe it and it's tough to do in one word, what would that word be? And tell me why. New York. This is a place where every day you wake up, you could experience everything from a plane crashing into our trade center to a person who's celebrating a new business that's open this is a very very complicated city and that's why it's the greatest city on the globe

he's asked to give i i i really can't believe i've never heard of that wow he's asked to give one word to describe his. He gives a two-word answer to be technical and then immediately pivots into 9-11. I just... You could have a plane crashing into a building or you could open small business. That is really stunning. I, and Tim, I have to admit,

I was really into Eric Adams in the beginning. I fell for it hard. Like, I just loved him. I was a Catherine Eric Adams in the beginning. I fell for it hard. I just loved him. I was a Catherine Garcia man. A vindication for Catherine Garcia. I liked that Eric Adams... There's one thing about Eric Adams that maybe Democrats can take a lesson to.

Is hopefully there's a Democrat out there that can speak to working class black and brown people that is not Eric Adams. Right, that's pro-police. I really, and he has a certain charm, you know, I just really, anyway, I really liked that he was a voice in the democratic party for, for law enforcement. So it's really sad for New York, which I'm from New York.

It's going through a little bit of a rough time, New York city, and just watching all these people quitting around him and knowing like that this was so widespread. It's just it's just terrible. But I hope like you said, someone else sort of surfaces that can talk about crime and cops in the way that he did and be like, you know, he seemed like a criminal themselves. Seemed like a high bar. Yeah. Yeah. I know. But Democrats aren't allowed to have criminals, only Republicans. So that's sort of like a new reality. And, you know, the Republicans in New York will now be rallying to Eric Adams aside to see his

poll numbers skyrocket like Donald Trump's. They better be. They better be. Amy Stoddard, a delightful bonus segment on the Thursday Bullard podcast. We'll be talking to you soon. Everybody else will be back tomorrow with an old friend. See y'all then. Peace. But I want non-fiction I don't want the world, but I'll take this city

Who can blame a girl? Call me hot, not pretty Baby, do you like this beat? I'm made so you dance with me It's like 199 degrees Wanna do it with me, do it with me H-O-T-T-O-G-O Snubbin', cl and clap and touch your toes Raise your hands, not body roll

Dance it out, you're hot to go H-O-T-T-O-G-O Snap and clap and touch your toes Raise your hands, not body roll H-O-T-T-O-G-O H-O-T-T-O-G-O You can take me hot to go H-O-T-T-O-G-O

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It's like 199 degrees When you're doing it with me, doing it with me H-O-T-T-O-G-O Snap and clap and touch your toes Raise your hands, now body roll Dance it out, you're hard to go H-O-T-T-O-G-O Snap and clap and touch your toes Raise your your hands on body roll Dance it out, you're hard to go Meet your TTOGO Snap and clap and touch your toes

Reach your hands on body roll Meet your TTOGO It just beats me, O-G-O You can take me hard to go It just beats me, O-G-O You can take me hard to go It just beats me, O-G-O The Board Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Breth.