The Bulwark Podcast - Rep. Mikie Sherrill: Who Will Be In Charge of Our National Security?

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

We're going back to a president who can't be bothered to read his briefing books. So who will be getting in the ear of the man who had the judgment to choose Pete Hegseth in the first place? Plus, blue state governors v Trump, the need for more mid-range housing, the role of women in modern combat, and Tim reads more from the mailbag.  New Jersey gubernatorial candidate Mikie Sherrill joins Tim Miller.

Hello and welcome to the Bullwerg Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. We got a mail back at the end, so stick around for that. Plus, I am just delighted to be here with a very bullwerky Congresswoman. She's from New Jersey and just launched her campaign for governor and Congresswoman. She's a member of the House Armed Services Committee. She's from New Jersey and just launched her campaign for governor and Congress. She's a member of the house armed services committee. She's also a former US Navy helicopter pilot and a former prosecutor. Much to discuss. It's Mikey Sherrill. How are you doing Congresswoman?

I'm doing great. How are you? You said not great. Yeah. I've been better. I've been better. You're doing great. Is that really true?

Or is it politician talking? You know what? I probably should say world adjusted. I'm doing great. Is that really true? Or is it politician talk? Well, you know, I probably should say world adjusted. I'm doing great. I just had a wonderful Thanksgiving. My daughter is in the Navy. She's at the Naval Academy Prep School. So she was just home and I saw her and then I just announced I'm running for governor. So I'm very excited about that. I'm sort of an action-oriented person. So in the wake of the election, having a mission, a plan, it just felt good, I have to say. I hear that.

I also am an action-oriented person, and it's been advice I've been giving folks, you know, because I get messages from people who are like unreasonably quite broken, right? And quite down about what happened in the election and scared. But they want to do something, right? And it's like, what can we do? The reality is, like at a national level, it's kind of tough at this point. And you can contact, we'll talk a little bit about Pete, Seth, in a bit. Our DOD designate, at least for the moment. Who knows if that'll be true at the end of the day. So you can

call your senator or whatever. But I've been saying, honestly, find stuff locally, like to get involved in. But I don't know. Do you have advice for people that can't decide to run for governor that are looking for things to do? Yeah, I think you're exactly right. We have to find those pathways for what we can do, what change that we can affect. And there's the, is it the Serenity Prayer or the Prayer of St. Francis that, you know, you've got to understand, you know, what you can change and what you can't change and knowing the difference. And I do think that that gives you a sense of purpose and direction if you look for those

areas that you can truly make a difference. As I said earlier, it's why I'm running for governor. I feel as if that is the area and the states now, and this is a little bit new for Democrats, right? I think we had relied on the federal government to protect a lot of rights and freedoms, the Supreme Court. We are now looking to the states, and I think it could be a very good place for us to redirect the party to really focus on those issues that I always say, you know, what's that last thing keeping you up at night?

You know, maybe if you're a mom and, you know, you can't sleep, is it, are you worried about your rent? Are you worried about your mortgage? Are you worried about your kid's mental health? Are you worried about your job? What is it that is that last thing that you're just lying awake thinking, how am I gonna do this? And how can we address that?

How can we move forward? Well, at the same time, I do think we need to relentlessly be the party of rights and freedoms as well. But I think we need to lead with our vision, and I think the election showed us that. I think we need to lead with a vision of how we're just gonna make government work, how we're gonna cut through red tape,

how we're gonna make sure that we are actually delivering for people. And I say that because I have to tell you, you know, when I started running for Congress, people said, oh, why do you want to be in the House? You can't get anything done. You're going to be a freshman. You know, why bother? Right?

And, you know, I don't come from that place. I think, you know, coming from the military, having that background, having that training, it's never an option in the United States military to say, the military doesn't work, it's too hard, we're just going to give up today, let's all just skip the mission today and go take it easy. There's a saying, lead, follow, or get out of the way. I mean, you have to choose where are you

and how are you gonna affect that change? And so to say government just doesn't work, so let's give up, that to me is just not an option. And so, you know, I went into Congress and in only my second term, I was named the most effective lawmaker in the New Jersey House delegation. And again, it reminded me of that

when I decided to run for governor. A lot of people said, Mikey, don't do it. You know, you can't get anything done. It's too broken. The budget's too tough. New Jersey transit's such a mess. You're just gonna, it's just gonna be bad for you. It's gonna make you look bad

because government can't function." I just looked at that and I thought, I'm not here because I don't get involved in public service because I'm thinking, oh my gosh, is this going to make me look good? Am I going to get down to Trenton and suddenly be like, oh wow, I'm in public service because I truly believe that well run government can make people's lives better, that we have a duty to deliver for people, that when people are lying awake at night thinking of the things that are really problematic for them, that in the back of their mind, if they have a good governor of their state, they're thinking, but you know what?

Mikey said she was really going to work hard on addressing this. And I'm going to go to bed now and I'm just going to hope that tomorrow's better than today because I know that she's got this and she's going to take care of this. So I can take this off my plate and here's the million other worries I have. But this one, I know we have a good leader here that's going to really focus on how she's going to make sure that, you know, my life's a little bit easier tomorrow. So I think that that's, that all is smart and right for a run for governor. I do wonder how you think about this running for governor in a blue state in a place where

the state moved towards Trump, at least at the presidential level, and the results. I think you're seeing people migrating out of blue states towards red states, and you're seeing people that have concerns about cost of living in blue states, and you're running as a Democrat, the state's been run by Democrats. How do you make the pitch that you have something to offer to solve these problems in a place where the party's been in control for a while?

Yeah. So I think unlike some other states, in 2023, we actually had our population grow in New Jersey. And I know, believe me, I live in the world, I hear what people say about our beloved state, but we love it. And obviously, others are moving in and want to be in the world, I hear what people say about our beloved state, but we love it. And obviously others are moving in and wanna be in the state. So you're saying people moved to New Jersey in 2023? Yeah. To New Jersey.

They're like, I got anywhere I can go, I'm going to New Jersey. Okay, again, I know, and look at that, see? See, this is what we're up against. This is what we're up against. But I have to say, New Jersey is a fantastic state. It's a wonderful state just because of all it offers. It's an innovative state.

It's an exciting state. It's a great place to raise a family. It has some of the best public school systems in the nation. So people love New Jersey. It's one of the states actually that traditionally has the most intergenerational families of any state in the nation, meaning that people who are born in the state and raise a family in the state want to retire in the state Some of that is being broken though Just for the very reasons you're pointing out a lot of its cost of living and so we're seeing the cautionary

Tales of other blue states. We're not going to be able to continue to run the great economy that we've been successful at running, whether it's in some of our healthcare sectors, our pharmaceutical sectors, our medical device sector, our defense-based sector, our space sector. These are all growing places, and they run in New Jersey because we have one of the most talented workforces in the nation. That is a gift. That is great that we have that, but if we don't address affordability, if we don't address cost of living, we are going to very quickly see the problems that we're seeing in other blue states. And we've already seen those problems in the electorate as they're weighing in and saying, you know, it's just getting too hard here. And how is it that in the richest country in the world and one of the richest states in the nation, I'm having such a hard time getting by.

And so that is what we need to address. And that's what I've constantly been focused on in Congress. So whether it's housing affordability, the legislation I have around grocery store prices, childcare costs, all of this is directed at lowering costs for everyday families. And that is what we have to really, truly address, or we are going to see pretty quickly a lot of the problems you just discussed in other blue states. I will say that my colleague, Jonathan Last, did move to New Jersey recently. He pretends he's in New York, though. And my college bestie was from Cherry Hill and pretended like he was from Philly. So that seems to be another problem that you have to address as governor of New Jersey.

I am going to- Banning people from pretending like they're in New York or Philly. They are, exactly. How dare they? Own Jersey. How dare they? Is it intractable though? And it's easy to say, oh, well, yeah, it's affordability is a problem. Like affordability is a problem across all these major metros, across most of the blue states.

How do you do it? Like how do you change it? I particularly own housing, I guess. I mean, build more is the start, right? So New Jersey has some legislation and court decisions around affordable housing. And so there's building requirements for affordable housing. But generally in our state, how developers do that is they build luxury apartment buildings, and then they have several affordable housing

units within that. But what we have in the state largely is this missing middle. So when I look at my town, I'm in Montclair, when I look at my town and try to think of when in my naval career I could have afforded anything in Montclair, New Jersey, it wasn't when I was an ensign, it wasn't when I was a Lieutenant JG, it wasn't when I was Lieutenant, right? I'm not sure if there was a time while I was in the Navy that I could have afforded to live in my town. If my kids want to move back after their careers or after they get out of college, I don't

know where they're going to live other than, you know, my home. Which I'm sure you're thrilled about. I actually, I want to, you know, I'm sad my daughter's gone, but a lot of people might want some independence and have their own place. I'm not sure my kids would be thrilled with moving back home as much as I'd like it. But so, you know, where are people going to afford? And then if you're a senior and you're trying to figure out, you know, I'd love to sell this home I'm in, but where are you going to move? Where are that kind of missing middle homes? How are we going to keep families there? How are we going to keep the workforce going? How are kids

going to move off their parents' couches? That is all really too hard. And what that does too, is then that puts higher pressure on the rental market. We're seeing people... I heard of a woman who was telling me that someone in her office who she employs who makes a really good salary just had to move to a different town because the rents got too high and she had to dot school-age kids. That's like pulling them out of their school system and moving to another one. So I say you start with some of these housing prices and you've got to start by building. And when we look at the fact that in New Jersey, we're about 150,000 home units short of where we need to be to continue to move the workforce into the state and continue to innovate and move the jobs forward, that's a huge issue, especially when you compare it

to places like Florida that have an overabundance of homes. And so, here's the thing, maybe you make a calculation, am I worried about my rights and freedoms in Florida? Sure, but do I really wanna afford a home with a backyard and a swimming pool versus a small two-bedroom apartment with my three kids. Maybe that's a trade you take for obvious reasons. Speaking of Florida, my aforementioned colleague, Jonathan Last, wrote a newsletter recently

about that with a provocative notion that is that a democratic governor in one of these blue states during the Trump years is going to have to be a DeSantis of the left. And I know that shudder to even think that that might be you. That is not the moniker I'm going for, but the DeSantis of the left, but someone that is just diligent about taking on the administration and building a power center from the states since the Democrats aren't going to have one nationally. I just wonder what just I mean obviously not about being like Ron DeSantis But what you think about this notion of what role will the Democratic governors have in?

Combating the Trump administration. I think it's so key. I think it's both Combating the excesses of the Trump administration Combating the bad economic decisions of the Trump administration, because people forget with the chaos that he engenders how really economically tough it can be on families. So whether you're talking about in my state, the state and local tax deduction cap, or if you're talking about the failure to fund the Gateway Tunnel Project as our transit system kept imploding, or you're talking about some of the fund the Gateway Tunnel project as our transit system kept

imploding or you're talking about some of the attacks on the healthcare system so we couldn't move forward and drive in our costs there. He was really impacting families and now he is, you know, with some of the discussion that he's had on tariffs and the discussions that he's had on how he is going to lead, that could very easily cost families thousands and thousands of dollars. If he's going to deport everyone, as he suggests, beyond some of the real fears that families have about their loved ones, you're also talking about how are we going to run our economy.

That's why I've always been a fan of comprehensive immigration reform, making sure we have security at the border have security at the border, processing at the border, but also pathways to citizenships for people who are working in our economy. These things are going to be huge hits on everyday people. A strong governor is going to need to punch back, and a strong governor is going to need to stand in the breach there and say, no, to me, it's not just about pushing back. That is not enough to say, oh, I'm going to be a strong defender of our values in the

state and of running the state economy in the wake of the chaos coming out of Washington. That's not visionary. That's not future focused. That might be something that people say, well, great, for four years, maybe things won't get worse worse here but how are things going to get better? That's my pitch. That's why I'm not running for governor. That's my pitch. For four years maybe things won't get worse. I think that seems great to me actually if that's true but I hear you. Yeah I think Democrats have to have a vision and I think it's through the democratic governors and I actually think that could be very good for our party. I think we have a really strong bench. I think we have people that have created

successful administrations and have done things that are very popular with people and have really impacted change. I think we have to come together. What is that vision of the democratic governors of this country and how do we execute it together? You know, the best gifts feel like they were picked out just for you. That's why I love

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The idea that he's running the military is ridiculous. But specifically, like a perspective that you have, being a veteran, having a daughter in service, you've spoken out against women in combat, women in the military. And so I just, I'm wondering what your reactions are to the nomination and to his past statements about women in the military. It's such an incredible slap in the face to every woman who has served. You know, I've spoken to friends of mine I graduated from the Naval Academy with. I've spoken to Marine Corps veterans and aviators. You know, I've spoken to women who work closely with like the Lioness squads who were the squads that helped clear homes and got valuable

intelligence information from the women in the homes that they were clearing. I mean, I've spoken to so many people and I think until this nomination, there was this sense that things were on such strong ground. I mean, we've had, you know, from my class, the first female commanding officer of an aircraft carrier. We now have the first female superintendent, the first female commanding officer of an aircraft carrier. We now have the first female superintendent, the first female chief of naval operations. All of that tracks back to when I graduated from the academy 30 years ago, and the combat restrictions on ships and aircraft were lifted because you can't fully participate in the military as somebody who's going to be competitive if you don't go into combat, if you don't go on a combatant ship, if you don't go into combat aircraft, if you aren't on the ground in combat. And by the way, this idea that somehow combat is like trench warfare and here's the combat line for the men

and the women are back there as the nurses. I mean, that is so antiquated. The way we fight today is so different from that. And combat is sort of these combatant roles are enmeshed in so many different ways in so many different positions. So, you know, we go from when I was at the Naval Academy to the Chief of Naval Operations, who was a submariner,

when someone stood up at a brigade meeting and stood up and said, when are you going to let women on submarines? And he derisively said, not in my lifetime, to a standing ovation. To actually the USS New Jersey being the first fast attack purpose built sub to have women on board. That felt to me like, wow, such a momentous thing. Yes, I am very proud it's named the USS New Jersey. In that such movement and progress, and when you see everything, I was speaking to somebody who was telling me at the Naval Academy, some of the women there are so physically fit and in such great shape and such leaders that some of the men there say so physically fit and in such great shape and such leaders

that some of the men there say, oh, I'm gonna go work out with her because she's gonna help me get in shape. Like I wanna be in six shapes. So she's a beast, I'm gonna go do that kind of thing. And so, you know, we're seeing such great leadership, such great opportunities, such exciting stuff going on in our force.

And that is how we have a ready force. And to see somebody who just sees women in the role of, as I guess he said, at one of his jobs, which he was of course let go from, party girls or not party girls, who has a credible assault allegations, who had to be carried out of a group team meeting. And by the way, the group team meeting at, I think, in his leadership was taking place

at a strip club because of his intoxication. You're just looking at somebody. Why? Why? Like, it just feels like such a, really an F-U to women. It's like, I am putting this particular person up for this role because I just want to, you know, I just want to show how little I respect the service of women. I just want it to be clear to everyone that I, you know, totally feel this disregard for

women. That's what it feels like. It feels like a gut punch. Yeah. And isn't it, it's this disregard for women. That's what it feels like. It feels like a gut punch. Yeah, and isn't it, it's a district for everybody. I mean, I don't know, while we're taping this, Pete Hegs' mommy is currently on Fox and Friends trying to walk back an email she sent where she called him an abuser of women. It's humiliating. Isn't this just humiliating? Could you imagine being a, you know, a general, a three star, a four star, and you have to go report to this guy? Riz is preposterous. There are three million people that he would be in charge of in the Department of Defense. I guess this has got to be the most preposterous nomination

in the history of the country. Beth Dombkowski You know, this is, to their credit, I mean, this is why I'm so impressed often with people who join our military, because there is something very much in the line of public service about it. You don't join the military because you're going to get rich. You don't join the military to make a million dollars. You in fact join the military to do some really grueling work for some really bad pay and some really yucky places, right?

But you do it because you have this sense of pride and you do it because you want to protect people, because you want to protect the nation, because you want to protect our values, because you care about the Constitution. And so I will tell you, I have not heard one person in the military say, oh, I don't want to Pete Hegseth to be there because it would be, you know, humiliating and degrading to report to him. It certainly would. No, it would. No, it would.

Right? It would. Let's be clear. However, what I hear is there deep fear for the security of the nation. So if he is intoxicated and, you know, we're talking about whether or not Russia has just launched a nuke or what's going on in Taiwan in the middle of the night, or a ship being attacked in the Straits of Hormuz. Who's making decisions then?

And oh, by the way, I have been in the Situation Room to talk about concerns I've had under a Trump administration with the president not reading his presidential briefing book. The excuse for not addressing something was, oh, he didn't read it. So who's in charge here of our national security? Who's in charge of our defense? Who's making those decisions and who's getting in the president's ear to make these decisions? And if it's Pete Hickseth, I think we're all in a great deal of trouble. We've been to that. All right. I guess it's official now, a very narrow house majority because of the victory in

that the last California seat, new Congressman Gray, your new colleague, Democrat means it's a 220 to 215 House, a majority for Republicans. Democrats picked up one seat, but several Republicans will be gone for a few months because they're replacing them to Florida seats in particular. Aren't going to have special elections until April. So they'll have literally one or two seats. I just wonder how you think about that in the House. It's going to be very challenging for the Republicans to get anything done. Should the Democrats just be letting them die on the vine, figuring it out themselves?

Should you be recruiting Mike Lawler or some of these guys to try to, you know, create some gang of whatever in the middle? I got you thinking about navigating the situation. It's so fun. I mean, should we, maybe yes, right? Maybe, maybe the answer should be let them die on the vine, show the nation what true Republican majority actually looks like if left to their own devices. It's just not how we're built. I can't sit there and watch somebody take our country down because it's not a zero-sum game. Maybe it should be. Maybe I should think of it as a zero sum game. Republicans

lose, Democrats win. I don't. We all lose, right? If the House of Representatives isn't functioning in any way, shape or form, we all lose. We have to keep the government open. We have to engage in that too. Are you sure? Are you sure? Well, I mean, I'm already frustrated. It sounds like we're going to have a continuing resolution. So first of all, that's just, you know, when you come from the Armed Services world and the national security world, that is such a huge waste of money, at the very least for the Department of Defense. You can't have new start programs.

You can't continue some of the ongoing programs to restart them once the new budget gets passed is a huge cost. And we're doing all this as we're desperately trying to innovate and trying to meet the challenges of a really complicated world. So it's just a really horrible way to run a railroad. But where we're at is, you know, we are now, you know, we're going to see Republicans with some reconciliation bills, some bites at the apple of just passing huge pieces of legislation through the Senate

with a simple majority. We're really putting a lot of ability to get an agenda done in their hands. So just kind of not engaging or letting them fail, I think would really be a disservice. I think it would allow them to run with a very bad agenda. I think failing is maybe part of the agenda of some in the Republican Party, meaning that they don't like government and they just sort of want government to implode. So allowing that to happen would just seem to meet some of the agenda on the far right.

But then the question is, what do we do? How do we keep moving forward in a way that keeps the country running and tries to block as much of a bad agenda as possible? And that's a tough one. I mean, it's really tough. I go back and forth. I didn't enter Congress to enter into the least productive Congress in the history of the nation.

Right? That was not my agenda. I told you I'm an action oriented person. I think your agenda for this year should be trying to beat that record. Well, that's the other side, right? Like, I'm like, well, but if they're unproductive, at least they're not getting a really incredibly bad agenda passed that's going to punish women and roll back environmental protections in the wake of climate change and defund some of the infrastructure programs that are so important to roads and bridges and tunnels, et cetera.

Yes, but it's going to be a really delicate balance. I have to say that Hakeem Jeffries, I think, has been masterful for the last Congress at trying to navigate through these landmines and trying to keep pressure on the speaker for the Democratic agenda, even in a Republican majority. And I think we'll continue to press forward on that. Real quick, I got to ask you about the Hunter pardon. Do you have any thoughts about that you want to share? You know, here we have a Trump administration that is purporting to go after political enemies. And so it's not like we're doing this or the president's looking at this in a vacuum and what might be coming and might the justice system really function well in the future with Cash Patel as the head of the FBI, for example, and yet

at the same time it does just undermine the credibility and faith in the Justice Department and faith in our leaders. And so I look at this and this is why it just seems like we need a new generation of leaders. We need a fresh perspective. We need people who are committed to public service and who are going to put the country first and going to relentlessly advocate for people and advocate for our institutions so people can have faith in them. And so this flies in the face of all of that.

And that's why I think people are just looking at our government and saying kind of a pox on all their houses. You know, this is just nobody's credible, nobody's trustworthy, nobody stands by their word, nobody does what they say they're gonna do. And, you know, again, it's why I just keep going forward trying to rebuild that faith and that credibility, committing to serve people and then doing it and just kind of again and again and again and trying to build that faith back for people. Mark, can you down as in, I get it, but...

Fair enough, fair enough. Let's move on. All right, My final question. I'm very excited about this one. I don't know if you've seen this. JD Vance's blog from 2005. Do you know any reading of JD Vance's 2005 blog? In your spare time?

You'll be surprised to hear no. I have not. Well, he wrote about an emotional day where he felt more like a female than he ever has or will. And he explains that it happened when he was watching the movie Garden State and that he can no longer watch it because New Jersey's landscape is so much like Ohio's

and the music is so relevant to my life right now. So I'm wondering if you and JD have ever bonded over the movie, The Garden State, and if you have a Garden State soundtrack, song, or memory that you'd like to share. Wow. Wow. This is why, when you said you had a surprise question for me at the end, I knew to dread it. My instincts were correct. I have not watched Garden State in many moons. I have fond memories of it. It did hit a chord. I didn't really genderize the chord it hit necessarily. But now I feel like I have to, I may not commit to rewatching it right this second, but at a minimum, I'm going to put that

playlist on Spotify. So I'll get back to you on that one. Yeah, go put that Spotify playlist on. There's a good one. I was listening to it this morning and I was like, oh, two shins tracks. Anyway, it's a good playlist. It was a moment for us, elder millennials. All right, Mikey Sherrill, good luck in the governor's race. Please keep us posted and let's keep an open dialogue on how much we should be given to

the Republicans over there in the house. Sounds good. Thanks so much. All right. We'll see you soon. Have a great week. Actually, really quick. Yes.

Give us your website. Oh. Give us your website. At www.mikysherrill.com. There it is. Easy. Up next, I got a mail bag for you. I'll stick around. How many people in the world would you guess have been forced to flee their homes? A million?

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to accompany, serve, and advocate for forcibly displaced people so they can heal, learn, and determine their own futures. It's a great mission. I've been talking about this for a while now. I've been moved actually to receive a couple of emails from people who donated to JRS as a result of this. It's something that I really appreciate. It is a mission that I'm aligned with.

The refugee mission is something that has been important to me for a long time. Volunteered for refugee groups. At our wedding. We asked people to donate to refugee groups in lieu of gifts. I think their point about staying places that are not, you know, where the hot fad is on social media is super important. There are a lot of displaced people that are not in, you know, whatever the hot spot of the moment is on Instagram. And, you know, the Jebbies are great. So I say every time when I read this, I have some issues with the Catholics, but the hotspot of the moment is on Instagram. And, uh, you know, the Jebbies are great. So I say every time when I read this, I have some issues with the Catholics,

but the Jebbies I love and, um, they're really important to my formation as, as a man, and, uh, I'm happy to help give back a little bit to their effort. So you want to do something good today? It's been a rough few weeks and I, and I have fear that that rough few weeks is going to lead to a rough few weeks and I have fear that that rough few weeks is going to lead to a rough few years for displaced people around the world. So go visit JRS USA online. Read some of the stories about their work and then make a donation or look at other ways of supporting their work like advocacy or volunteering. To check them out and show the bulwark sent you visit JRS USA dot org slash bulwark. That's JRSUSA.org slash bulwark. All right, y'all, it is mailbag time.

If you have a question, email bulwarkpodcast at the bulwark.com. I also enjoy the life advice questions. That's none of these that are coming up here, but if you have something you need a tip on or need a little advice for, happy to weigh in. I mean, you know, who else would you turn to for advice besides me? All right, let's start here.

Erin in Florida, who has disappointed you more this year, the American electorate or your LSU Tigers and Brian Kelly? Gotta say the American electorate. I still got faith. I still got faith in the LSU Tigers. I think that they will turn around. Eight and four, felt like an eight and 14 this year. We've got two questions, one from Alok, I hope I'm pronouncing that right, and another from Andrew in San Francisco. It's

basically the same question. Are there any opportunities for someone mid-career with limited political background to pivot into campaigns? I don't mind pay or status cuts. However, I don't know if or how I can break into that world at this point. Andrew's version of that question was, he's on the cusp of turning 40 and contemplating a career change. Campaign politics is always something that's fascinated him.

His dream job is a political strategist, but he worries it's too late to make such a drastic change. So I'd say this, you know, the later it goes, the more drastic of a change it is. I just think we can be honest about that. James Carville didn't win his first race till he's 42. So there you go. Hope Springs eternal for everybody. I'd say definitely for people in their late 20s or 30s,

who are willing to take a pay cut and work their ass off. There are opportunities in campaigns, particularly out in America. This is not really the best moment probably to sign up for a campaign, December 4th, right after a big election. But as you look to our guest today, Mikey Sherrill, she's going to have a big campaign team in New Jersey. She has got five opponents, so they need a lot of staff in New Jersey, if you happen to live there. Abigail Spanberger in Virginia is another friend of the pods got to run in 2025. If you live in Virginia, if not, you're going to head to 2026. But you know, the thing that I think people don't realize is campaign jobs out in America,

particularly in, you know, whatever less desirable places, either because it's not a top race or because, you know, people don't want to move there. Campaign jobs are gettable, especially if you're going to demonstrate that you'll work hard, that you'll do whatever it takes, that you'll do annoying stuff. I mean, God, my early campaign jobs were doing phone banks, driving candidates around and real mundane stuff. So if your ego does not get in the way and you're happy to do that, particularly at a local level, my observation is you can move up the chain at the local level. There's not a ton of competition,

you know, particularly not in these biggest states. Might be a little different in Wisconsin or, you know, New Hampshire, like where they've got a lot of campaigns happening because it's a swing state or because it's an early primary state. But a lot of these other places, if you're competent, if you're willing to work hard, you can do it. Happy to be helpful. Shoot me an email. Zach, Nola native now in DC. What made you move to New Orleans? Well, A, we love New Orleans. I got married here. My college besties are from Baton Rouge in New Orleans, which explains my LSU fandom and my love of this city. It's an amazing city. And so when we're looking for places to move, we've always wanted to move here. So it's been on the list.

But basically the impetus was we're living in California during the pandemic, pandemic ends, and both me and my husband have to go to DC and New York, I guess me, New York, him, DC, a fair amount. And we're on these red-eye flights that were pretty annoying, and it was too long away from the kit. I just didn't want to waste days on airplanes for no reason. And so we made a little list of things that were our priorities for places we wanted to live. We would like to have had friends with kids there, friends or family with kids. We would like it to be easy to leave in the morning and get to DC or New York and maybe even get back that same day or be able to be back the next day very easily. We'd like there to be

black people because we adopted Toulouse who's black and I didn't want able to be back the next day very easily. We'd like there to be black people because we adopted Toulouse who's black and I didn't want her to be the only black kid in the classroom. And the little bonus, little lanyard, as we say down here, was I didn't really want to have winter. After living in California, it was going to be tough to go back to winter. Really the last three points made Denver a pretty tough call because the Denver airport sucks. Getting to the East Coast was going to also be terrible for Denver. Diversity, not exactly the best though. That's I think changing a little bit.

And then winter goes till April. So New Orleans is the only place that checked all four boxes. We couldn't be happier. It's been so great. Everybody's been so welcoming. Couldn't recommend it more. Just met an empty nester yesterday who is a Bullock podcast listener. Hey, what's up?

I moved down here and she felt the same way. So if you're an empty nester looking for someplace warm and spirited, culture filled to live, come on down. Katherine asked, you've mentioned a few times you love to read fiction and I was hoping you'd offer some book recs. Reading Demon Copperhead right now, it is great. It's great. I'm way behind on this, but it's excellent. I was visiting family in-laws in West Virginia, and this is based in

the kind of part of Virginia, Western Virginia that has a lot of cultural similarities to West Virginia. And so I felt like it was in theme to do it. Almost done. I mean, it tugs at your heart strings. It's rough, but I kind of like to wallow in sad fiction. Speaking of which, same as it ever was, it was a book I recently read that was wonderful. It was recommended by former podcast guest, Jennifer Senior. You should go listen to the interview I did with her, by the way. Paul, it's her prize winner. She's amazing.

I think it was around 4th of July this year, if you're a new podcast listener. I got Evergreen off the news, interview about her stories that she's written. Jen is awesome and so is Same As It Ever Was as a book. To remember what I've liked recently, I popped on my little Goodreads, Homegoing and Long Division were my last five out of five star books. Love both of those.

Gay fiction, I love gay fiction. Here's a couple that nobody ever talks about. If you look for some deep cuts, Three Junes and Guapa are two of my faves. I've got a special shelf at home reserved only for Diddy and Baldwin. So maybe we can do a Diddy and Baldwin mailbag at some point in the future. So hope some of those wrecks will warm your soul over the holidays. Jim asked how did Dems become cool again? Dem used to be cool under Clinton and Obama and now we're seen as Debbie Downers. This is, I think this is a

huge problem and it seems silly and it seems kind of dumb that it has to matter whether somebody's cool or not but is there a better explanation besides inflation for why Dems did so poorly among folks that don't pay attention to politics, other than they seem uncool and the Republican propaganda machine is more effective. I don't think so. I think those are two key sub-elements of what is happening here. Being part of the counterculture is important. Getting people excited about something is important.

I think that there's a chance for Democrats to do that in the Trump years if they don't go the school marm-route. And I think finding people that want to focus on how the Republicans are dangerous, yes. They're extreme, yes. They're also lame. They're lame. And, you know, the little weird hit, I think got a lot of Democrats excited, but I don't know that it worked really for a lot of casuals. And I think that I was saying this during the campaign, elevating Mike Johnson, elevating some of these other guys, I just, there would not have been a cult around Ted Cruz. There just wouldn't have been. We all know this.

There would not have been a cult around Ted Cruz in the way that there is about Trump. There would not have been a group of people at MMA and an MMA fight, like, broing down with Ted Cruz. Like, you can't row down with Ted Cruz. And so Democrats have to elevate the lame Republicans again. And Democrats have to be more chill. I want to talk about this. I got an interview coming up.

I got two interviews coming up, actually. They're going to get into this a little deeper, one with a democratic strategist and one with one of my favorite commentators. So there'll be more to come on this. But I think that it's something to think about if you're a democratic politician looking at 2028. All right, here's the last one. I got to do one more thing about Hunter. Sorry guys. If you don't want to listen to it, you can fast forward to the end and enjoy the garden state soundtrack. I got several mail back requests on this point. That's like you would have pardoned your kid, right? You'd have pardoned your kid. And that's an interesting

question actually, for people who care about this enough to think about it. Because this is like a flip way to handle that right? That's like, well, anybody would have pardoned their kid. Sure. And we don't really actually think about it. Like, where it's just like, that's like a truism. There's a flip way on the inverse. I saw some like conservatives in the inverse saying,

no, actually, it doesn't help troubled children to just bail them out all the time. So there's a flip way to take it on the other side. There's a tongue in cheek element to this, but I also wanna just, I like to do when the Republicans do crazy stuff, when they do conspiracies, I like to say, let's actually just walk through the conspiracy and pretend it's real. Let's just take it seriously.

Let's take it seriously for a second. Because I think when you do that, it reveals something. And so I want to take this thought seriously. Would I have pardoned my child if I was in Joe Biden's shoes? Like, obviously everybody has a line, right? You wouldn't pardon your pedophile child. You wouldn't pardon a child that killed somebody. I don't, I don't think probably depending on the circumstances.

So like, let's go through it. What's the line in this situation? I'm an 82 year old president. That doesn't seem very realistic. So maybe I'm an 82 year old governor. How about that? Who the hell knows, right? Life is long. And that doesn't seem very realistic. So maybe I'm an 82 year old governor. How about that? Who the hell knows, right?

Life is long. I don't plan on running for office, but the future is a foreign land as is the past. So in this case, I somehow am a 82 year old governor leaving office. For this hypothetical to work, I also have to have adopted a second child, I guess, at some point in the future. So let's just pretend that happened. My first child that I have right now, so I'm trying to find putting her in my mind's eye, becomes a crack cocaine addict, which I have empathy for. I have friends that have dealt with addiction. So, you know,

there are ways that obviously we deal with that as a family. They don't pay back taxes for years and a decade, I think, actually. They don't pay rent either. They become a total deadbeat, try to barter with their art. Art that is paid for by like my supporters, I guess. Maybe some of you, maybe some of you listeners would be paying for my kids' art in this case in the future because you've just become diehard fans of me. They also make some money by trading on my name with like some do-nothing jobs with shady foreign kind of companies, and they make money that way. And they kind of lie about me and kind of exaggerate their access and kind of use me to make money.

And despite that, despite the fact that they make millions doing that, they still don't pay their rent or their taxes. So, okay. So in that situation, this is where we're at. Then around all this time, my other child who's grown and has a family of their own dies tragically. And that's tough, you know, I'm thinking about that. And then just like what that would be like, it's kind of unimaginable really.

And so you have some sympathy there. And then you think about the fact that my surviving child has an affair with my deceased child's spouse and gets them into crack cocaine as well. And then during that affair, They cheat on my dead child's spouse with a stripper and have the stripper's child, but then decide they don't want to parent that child. And after actually becoming sober, getting clean, thank God, they're still taken to court where they try to pretend like it's not their child and are forced to pay alimony via a judge. Okay. Around that time, they lose a computer that results in a massively embarrassing new story for me

and extremely embarrassing stuff about themselves and kind of a weird butterfly flapping its wings since this computer results in one of the world's richest and douchiest people taking over a social media platform and weaponizing that platform against me. At some point during all this my child decides to get into guns because that's really what they need. It's like a lot of high-powered weaponry. They can't afford taxes or rent or child support but they need a Glock and in order to get the gun they lie on gun forms and break some laws. order to get the gun, they lie on gun forms and break some laws. This leads to some non-violent gun crimes.

And now here I am 82 years old. I'm leaving office that I had one running on a rule of law and integrity platform. Obviously it's Louisiana. So my predecessor was corrupt and that predecessor, obviously because it's Louisiana avoids jail and it's coming back into office and is planning to target my family. What would I do in that circumstance? This is gonna sound tongue in cheek, but I just really thought about it. I sat on the couch and thought about it for like 10 minutes. I really thought about it. I

thought about that life trajectory. I thought about my kid and her going through all that. And I thought about her being 54 years old when I had to make the decision. Not really a kid. It fell next to me. Then at the end I decided that I would have pardoned her.

So, the haters, you got me on that one, I guess. But I don't think I'd be very sanctimonious about it in the pardoning statement. And I think as part of my deal with the kid, as part of the pardon deal that I have with my own child, they would have to parent their fucking child too. I think that'd be one thing that I'd do and make sure I can have a relationship with my grandchild. And I think I wouldn't be upset at any supporter of mine who followed me for years running on a campaign of integrity and decency and following the rule of law who got upset that I let them down. I think I'd understand why they would be upset. So there you go. A little

something for everybody. It's a tough one. It's a tough one. Pretending like it's not, I think is silly. Pretending like it's a huge win for Joe Biden or for me, hypothetical future me is silly. That is what it is. It's a very tough situation we're in. And I think it's important that we grapple with all this stuff seriously, because we're going to have many other tough situations ahead. Guys, I'll be back here tomorrow. Enjoy the sounds of the Garden State soundtrack taking you home. And we'll'll be back here tomorrow. Enjoy the sounds of the Garden State soundtrack, taking you home. And we'll see you back here tomorrow. Peace. At long last it's crushed, it's colossal mass is broken up, it's ebbing it's a viral

Break the mattress, off the floor, drop the crayons, all from the alley in the cold In the cold, heavy and dark skinned Hide the fact you're dead again Underneath the power lines See you can shake Far above our heads Are the icy heights that contain all reason It's a luscious mix of words and tricks That let us back when we know we should fall

On rocks I drowned I will withstand And I'll go home, there's a road from now on Hold your glass up, hold it in Never betray the way you've always known it is One day I'll be wondering how I guess I won't just look to now Never got cold wearing out in the snow This is way beyond my remote concern

To be a god descending on the squad The Bulldog Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.