The Bulwark Podcast - S2 Ep1044: Peter Hamby: All in Service of Kissing Trump's Ass

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

MAGA is having a performative tantrum calling for James Comey to be jailed over a seashell meme because the daily job of Trump's supporters and Cabinet members is to try to warm his heart—that includes Kristi Noem changing her face and Tulsi firing top intel officials because they told the White House the truth it doesn't want to hear. Meanwhile, fentanyl deaths and violent crime fell dramatically last year, and border crossings have plummeted, but the administration keeps hyping a "crisis" to try to justify suspending habeas corpus. Plus, Tim briefly goes back to his comms job, the GOP's bill is not on a glide-path, Dems think their leaders are "spineless," Gavin tries "just win" on for size, Kamala mulls the CA governor's race—and new baby advice!! Peter Hamby joins Tim Miller for a bountiful weekend pod. Peter Hamby joins Tim Miller for a bountiful weekend pod. show notes Peter's pod, "The Powers That Be" Peter on Puck's poll on Dems Peter's "Good Luck America" Tim's FYPod (Suzanne Lambert episode out Saturday) Bulwark piece on how Biden should rethink his post-presidency Free Andry live show in DC on June 6 Tim's playlist

Hello and welcome to the Bollard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. As mentioned yesterday, we are doing a joint live show, a big gay live show, Sarah Longwell, John Lovett and me, and we're going to have some special guests that will probably also be gay. It is during World Pride in DC, June 6th. It will be a fundraiser in support of the legal team that is doing the work on behalf of Andres Hernandez and a few of the other folks that have been disappeared to El Salvador. So it will be serious, but also fun and also gay. And you should come, come hang out. Yeah. I hate to send you to their website, but I think it's going to be easier.

Just go to crooked.com slash events. Ours had a bunch of other backslashes on there. So crooked.com slash events. You won't get in trouble. Go over and get tickets there. Today's show, he's the host of Snapchats. Good luck America. He's a partner at Puck News and host of the daily Puck Pod, the powers that be.

It's Peter Hamby. What's up, Hamby. What's that? What's up, Hamby? Hey man. Congrats on the nuggets. Whew. Boy. It's been, it's been, you finally got some scoring spread out in my guy.

So it's been such a fun series, man. And, uh, I just, I wish it was an 11 game series. It's been the distraction that I needed in my life. was an 11 game series. It's been the distraction that I needed in my life. You know, the Nuggets have had seven game sevens since COVID. So during this horrific era of Trump and COVID, when I needed distraction, there've been seven series that have gone seven games, which is not so great for my husband, but it's been wonderful for me to get me away from all of this nonsense we're about to be talking about. So we'll see how it goes on Sunday. I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah. I even got Katie paying attention because the games are pretty exciting. Hey also, Tim, congrats on the Blark podcast being ranked number 34 on the YouTube podcast charts. You're below, you're below Just Trish and Nightcap. You're well below Megyn Kelly. You got some work to do there. Well, Just Trish is, Just Trish, Nightcap. You're well below Megyn Kelly. You got some work to do there.

Well, Just Trish is, Just Trish, I think that's some good stuff. Number 34, that's about where I finished in most of the presidential primaries that I worked on. 34th place. That seems about right. I was just gonna say the college version of Tim would be happy about the fact that you're 20 points ahead,

20 places ahead of democracy now. So the code pink crowd, you are smoking their asses. All right. 34 is pretty good. Guys, help us get ahead of Meg and Kelly. Text this show to your friends because we can do it. Top 34 is pretty good. That's all podcasts. It's not just news. So, you know, I'm out there in these streets competing with pardon. Joe Budden versus Tim. Yeah, all these folks. So we're doing pretty good. All right. While we're doing congratulations, you're on Bill Maher tonight with CNN's House Heel Scott Jennings.

And so we're going to do a little prep. That's why I asked you to come on today. I figured that we could go through some of the topics, run you through the paces so you're sharp tonight for the HBO audience. First topic I think may come up, I don't know, is the fact that the former FBI director, Jim Comey, posted kind of like a live laugh love themed Instagram post, kind of like a live laugh love energy, was a seashells on a beach walk and it said 8647. If you haven't figured that out yet and you're a listener, we assume it stands for 8647 as in get rid of

47 or we're out, we're done with 47. 47 being Donald Trump, the 47th president. We've had a very normal reaction from our government to that silly resistance post. Cash Patel sent out a tweet that the FBI is monitoring this and they're giving the secret service all the necessary support they need. Trump said that Jim Comey called for his assassination and that he's a dirty cop. And here's Tulsi Gabbard. Do you believe Comey should be in jail? I do. Any other person with the position of influence that he has, people who take very seriously what a guy of his stature, his experience, and what the propaganda media has

built him up to be. I'm very concerned for the president's life. We've already seen assassination attempts. I'm very concerned for his life. And James Comey, in my view, should be held accountable and put behind bars for this. Jailed. We should be jailed for a cringe resistance post. That was cringe. Peter, what do you make of that? Well, first of all, a lot of thoughts here. One, I'm glad 86 is now, everyone knows what 86 means, apparently. When I was growing up, my dad used to say 86 all the time because he had restaurant

background. It's like a restaurant term. Like kick someone out or like finish the dish or whatever. I guess it also has a military meaning, like you kill someone. Was your dad calling for the assassination of the people that he wanted to- No, he sure wasn't.

Oh, okay. He sure wasn't calling for that. I've hung out with your dad. He's got a nice, like he has a fedora, he's got a nice demeanor. He doesn't seem like the kind of person that, or it's not a fedora. What kind of hat is that?

What do we call that hat your dad wears? I don't know. He used to have these like Panama Jack hats. It's just like a cool hat. I don't know. Yeah. to have these like Panama Jack hats. It's just like a cool hat. I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, it doesn't seem like a man calling for assassinations very often, but you know, TBD.

No. So a few thoughts on what Tulsa Gabbard said. One, no one in the media and on the left likes James Comey. Like, like she's pretending that he's some sort of left-wing hero. Okay. He's got some fans. Some niche group. He's in the bulwark lane, I, like she's pretending that he's some sort of left wing hero. Okay. He's got some fans. It's a niche group. He's in the bulwark lane.

I feel like very norms loving norms, loving centrist like James Comey. Okay, fine. He is not some sort of, uh, you know, archangel over on the left or among Democrats or whatever though. The other thing is two points to this. This falls into the category of stupid shit that people post on the internet. Like, Comey probably shouldn't have posted it. Billy also shouldn't worry about going to jail or being investigated. And then the Washington Post actually just today did

a good roundup of all the times Donald Trump and Trump people have posted about political violence and threatening violence or winking at violence and specifically using the term 86 Matt Gaetz used it one time in 2024 He said that his political allies had 86 Three party leaders in recent months. He was referring to McConnell stepping down Jack Pesovac called at one point in 2022 to 86 46 that would be Joe Biden None of these people are in jail. You're not in jail.

Send them to El Salvador. Pizza gate jack straight to El Salvador. No, no jury, no trial or sending them straight to El Salvador. If AOC gets in in 2029, you better watch out pizza gate jack. The stupid shit here is people like Tulsi and Christy Noem and Cash are like, they know the way to warm Mr. Trump's heart is to post about something like this. So like part of me, when we first talked about this yesterday, I was like, Oh God, this is just like performative, stupid social media bullshit.

So they can salute dear leader. Nothing will come of it. I'm sure James Comey is going to get a knock on the door. I don't think he's going to El Salvador prison. One other thing, though, that like I've been thinking about a little bit lately, and you might disagree with this, is the press and Democrats kind of moved on pretty quickly from the assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. Like, I don't think a lot of people in the elite spaces and like the big blue affluent cities

kind of appreciate how much that turned Trump into like this messianic figure with his people. And like there were one and a half assassination attempts on Donald Trump during the campaign. So it's like James Comey is not gonna do it. And no shooter is gonna go listen to James Comey's little like Outer Banks seashell message to go shoot the president, but you know, there is some like a

green. I mean, the first guy wasn't really a resistance guy for starters. And also, you know, I mean, Gerald Ford had a couple assassination attempts. You don't hear about that. You don't learn about that in school. I mean, I'm not trying to downplay it.

It was really bad, but it's just like, I don't know, what did you want the media to do? I mean, they did a whole convention night about it. And that's, and he has pictures on the side of he kissed the firefighter's jacket. That Aidan Ross guy gave him a Tesla cyber truck with his bloody picture on the side of it. I don't know. People talk about it. I just don't know what. Because we're of a certain age, we should just reflect back on when Sarah Palin had her super PAC and she put crosshairs on people.

It's fair. On Democrats and vulnerable districts and everyone in the Fox News world like sorry everyone in the mainstream media that the lame stream media lost their minds over this and yeah it was stupid it was just a dumb thing um she by the way almost won a defamation case against the New York Times for saying for the Times saying in an editorial she was threatening political violence but she lost that case uh but you know, it's the internet is just fucking stupid, man. It's just fucking stupid. Maybe just don't post that. From a man of the internet. So we're gonna get more into the technology dystopia towards the end of the pod. I do want to do a little bit more Bill Maher prep for you though on

this topic because our man Scott Jennings, I don't know if listeners know this, Scott Jennings was my colleague. Scott Jennings worked for Jeb and I gotta tell you, I didn't know I loved him then. We're just gonna whisper that. And I do feel a little vindicated on that front. I've known him since 2014. I did a big profile of McConnell during that reelection primary with Matt Bevin back then. Yeah, interesting character. And Scott and Holmes and I went to a minor league baseball game in Louisville. And now Scott's famous.

Okay, so he doesn't perceive that there's going to be tension tonight because he posted this. Picture of you and him and Bill Moore. And he said, common sense and free speech will be debated by us all and to promote this. Did he get your approval on that? No, but I believe in common sense, Tim. I'm not... Yeah, you do, and free speech. It'll be interesting to see if he does, though.

So I'm wondering if this comes up. So I think as part of the prep today, I'm going to pretend like I'm Scott Jennings. I'd like to hear your reaction tonight. Let's do it. Dilmaar asks him about, what do you think about this James Comey post? And Scott Jennings is like, well, it's sad and pathetic that he's got TBS. Okay. James Comey has TDS. He's wandering around the beach looking at rocks. People don't, people don't want the bias from the FBI. Okay. People don't want this bias. And the liberals have lost their mind. And I don't, I don't know if there's an actual crime here, but let's be honest, depraved leftists have blood lust for Donald Trump.

It's unacceptable. These are sick people. It must be stopped. They're going to keep losing elections because they've gone insane. And I'm sad that James Comey has become one of them. Okay. Okay. We can agree with that.

Okay. Do you want to respond to that? Yeah. Peter, what do you think? I mean, I just, I'm going to say what I just told you. I'm sorry. Like that's a good scotch and his impression, I guess. But like, you know, there are going to say what I just told you. I'm sorry. Like that's a good Scott Jennings impression, I guess, but like, you know, there are some TDS out there in the world.

Yeah. Sorry. Okay. Well, while we're doing prep, because I used to be a media prep person. If that does come up, you might just consider raising. I don't know. Free speech does include cringe, live, laugh, love memes. Free speech does include seashells that say 86, 47, and it's

probably bad. And if you're mad about free speech, and the thing that you're mad about is that like annoying liberals wag their finger at you when you say pussy or whatever, when you say something inappropriate, and you get wagged a finger at you, you think that's a threat to free speech, you should also be pretty mad when the director of the FBI and the director of the national intelligence says that we should jail somebody for a meme. I don't, I just, I don't think that that would be a very popular take. If it was James Comey saying he was going to jail pizza gate, Jack Pesoviac, I don't think that Scott would be for that.

So that might be something to bring up. Just an idea. That's a good point. We're brainstorming. We're brainstorming. Yeah. Okay. We're ideating. I'll bring that up. We're brainstorming. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We're ideating as we say in the tech world.

Whiteboarding. You know, you're going to keep getting warmed up as this podcast goes along. By the time you get out there tonight, we're going to give you a cocktail. You're going to be nice and loose. Another thing I haven't got to this week. We played that Tulsi clip. There's another news item regarding her. I want to make sure folks are aware of.

She fired the National Intelligence Council's top two officials, so not random people, the top two officials of the National Intelligence Council over so-called politicization of intelligence. The firing of acting NIC Chair Mike Collins and his deputy Maria Leng and Ryckhoff comes after an intel report from the council last week contradicted the administration's assertion linking Venezuela's Maduro regime to the criminal gang, Trenda Uragua. So the short of it, if people look at this was basically in order to justify the Alien Enemies Act, the administration said, you know, we are being invaded by a foreign entity. And as part of the support for that, they're like, you know, the Venezuelan government

is colluding with these gangsters to whatever, invade our country. That's obviously not true for anybody who just like reads a newswire story about what's happening in Venezuela. But the intelligence council put it on a formal document that this is not true. And the people that wrote that fact have been fired. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

I do, one is like, I would say Kristi Noem and Tulsi are two of the most sort of Like they feel like they're genuflecting before Trump I don't know if I did like a draft of which which Cattle of cabinet members Kiss Trump's ass the most I think Tulsi would be the most obsequious cabinet member. Yeah, I think should be a top five Who's your first pick? Let's just do it. Let's do a draft. Let's do a draft. We'll do a top five. Okay.

Who's your first? Do you want to do it like fantasy style where we go back and forth? Or do you? Yeah. Yeah. Back and forth. Yeah. All right.

My number one, my number one is going to be Christy Noem because she, you know, there's obviously the El Salvador showmanship. She's running television ads, I think, that like come out of her own, like leftover campaign committee money saying, thank you, that like come out of her own, like leftover campaign committee money saying thank you, President Trump for all you're doing. Like she knows that Trump will be watching Fox and see her doing a commercial. You know, I live in Los Angeles. I do not care. And I celebrate it. If people want to get enhancements, you know, like Botox, fillers. I celebrate enhancements too. You know, she did change her face.

No one has more of a new face than Christina and like hair extensions. You know, it's Suzanne Lambert, the, the Tik Tok influencers sort of talked about this, but it's like the Mar-a-Lago face. Like she went from being the Midwestern mom with the Iowa haircut to being, you know, Mar-a-Lago Palm Beach look and tweets. We'll do anything for Mr. Trump. So she's my number one pick. It's a good pick.

Suzanne Lambert. I don't know. You don't know this, but it's a great promotion. Suzanne Lambert it's on FY pod, the Gen Z pod this week. So people go check that out. She's great. Oh, nice. Yeah.

I met her at the white house correspondence thing. She's cool. She's my pick is Howard nut look. Okay. I thought something was even actually close. That gives the clear first choice and I'm happy to get a good value of getting him at number two. All right, your pick is number three. Well, I guess if we're on that topic,

I mean, does JD Vance count as a cabinet member? Yeah. I mean, it's got to be JD. Yeah. I mean, like, this is a canonical bulwark take. But has anyone transformed themselves more than JD Vance in pure service of gaining power? All right.

Fourth pick. So man, Tulsi's out there. She's out there. Scott Besson's out there. But I'm going to do a sleeper. I'm going to do a sleeper with my fourth pick, Brooke Rollins. Oh, go on. I mean, she's the secretary of agriculture.

I mean, she told people to farm their own chickens in support of Mr. Trump. I mean, that's a pretty, that's a pretty big ask. And that's like a kind of a Soviet type request that people should, you know, start farming to support them, to support the dear leader. They'll have a good harvest. You have a good egg harvest this fall. As long as you just, you know, get your mega chickens. I'll take her for, for a fourth. Okay. I'm doing, I know, get your Maggot chickens. So I'll take her for four. Okay.

I'm doing, I'm going Scott Bessent next. So Tulsi doesn't even get picked. This is how obsequious the. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, you're right. I'm invalidating my own take. Yeah.

Six though. I think strong six. I'm taking her six. I feel like my team's pretty good. Nutlick, Rollins and Gabbard versus Bessent, Vance and Gnome. Well, ask people to vote in the comments who you think is the- Yeah, who'd win a Hoop It Up tournament with that three on three? Yeah, if the challenge was like, you know, who could lick the Trump feet

in the most ostentatious manner, which team would do better? Can I tell you two facts about Besant, Tim, that I find interesting? I just like to spend a lot of time on Wikipedia. Beyond the fact that when the markets were like going this way and that, like Besson was just saying, yeah, whatever, just knuckle through it, grind through it. And then later taking credit for some brilliant strategy.

The tariff stuff is so stupid. He used to work one, for the Soros Fund. He was a partner at Soros. Okay, so that's one thing. Two, his full name is Scott Kenneth Homer Besant. I don't know any Homers. Homer? Like Homer Simpson? Homer Simpson, yeah.

Really? Yeah. Homer Besant. Yeah. Homer Besant. Well, fuck. I think between Nutlick and Homer, we've got new names from the whole cabinet. That is great. Homer Besant, that's a great fact. Homer Besant, yeah. Yeah. Another fun fact is that his hedge fund that he's started like lost money every year for the last five years.

My hedge fund buddies that are listeners always want me to mention that. He was not, he's not a successful businessman actually. Let's slow down. He did well and then. He's richer than both of us. He's a rich dude. He's crushing me. He's crushing me.

But I think if he entered the podcast space, he'd probably be lower than 34th in the rankings, but he's crushing me in the, crushing me. But I think if he entered the podcast space, he'd probably be lower than 34th in the rankings. But he's crushing me in the investment space for sure. You should get Scaramucci and Bill Cohan on this pod from Puck, my colleague, and just do a taxonomy of different MAGA hedge fund types. I think you'd have a lot of fun. I'm not a big mooch man, but maybe. We'll think about it.

I do love Bill Cohan. It's the best guess you have on your part. Back to the Tulsi Fiering, so we got distracted. So she was an extreme, she's going overboard to please Mr. Trump. Yes. So that stipulated. Stipulated.

I mean, it's pretty bad. Just the substance of the move is pretty alarming, right? That two people inside the government could just put out an intelligence document that just states what the facts are and they're can't. Yeah. I mean, it reminds me a little bit of the Iraq War run up, you know, just like you sideline pieces of analysis that don't comport with whatever narrative you want.

But it's worse than that because like this is after all of the reckoning between all the intelligence departments before the Iraq war so like theoretically you know theoretically our intelligence community should move in harmony and the You know National Intelligence Council is part of the ODNI and like it is it's like the CBO you know, it is like an independent scoring agency that does like independent analysis. And, you know, this is tied to Stephen Miller and habeas corpus and trend to Agua too. But I don't know, it's just, I don't know what I'm supposed to say on the bulwark podcast about this. It's just your real thought seen that the independent agency that's supposed to give independent sort of sanguine analysis about intelligence threats, um, can say trend to Agua is not being directed by the Maduro regime.

And like at the very least we don't see them as like a terrorist threat. And you just ship can those people because it doesn't comport with. What Mr. Trump wants. Um, I have a whole nother spiel about like the whole, like habeas corpus, Stephen Miller thing, like they're, they're deporting people. Obviously you've been very hot on this, but the thing that really grates on me about like the idea of going around judges and suspending

habeas corpus is like, it's the claim that there's an invasion or a threat to public safety and that judges are slowing down efforts to push back against said invasion and threats to public safety. Like what the Trump people are doing at the border is working. Like it is like the border apprehensions in March were 7,000. Like there were like 250,000 like border apprehensions when Biden was president. Like he told people to come here.

Like it was bad. Democrats were bad and like talking about the border. And on top of that, like the pride deport half a million people this year. That's not like a million, like Donald Trump promised, but just by using the tools at their disposal with law enforcement, by using these sort of, you know, gross deterrent of that El Salvador prison. Like these things are sort of working to keep immigration down.

Obviously, like criminal aliens, as they say, exist in this country. They're less likely to commit violent crime and murders than any US citizen. I think the Cato Institute did a study on this. There's not really great data, but they did a study in Texas and they found that like a couple of years ago, there were 60 total homicides committed by quote unquote illegal aliens. And it represented like 0.2% of like total homicides in the state of Texas over whichever time period. They were measuring. Another note just on this, like going back to Kristi Noem,

they talk a lot about fentanyl, like Pam Bondi's stupid thing. Like we've like stopped enough fentanyl to like prevent the killing of 200 million US citizens as if 200 million US citizens are like buying Percocet and Xanax on like the internet and like taking pills. Like it's the dumbest math ever something called Molly I think that's what she said in the press conference, but like

Biden's efforts Snapchats efforts by the way are part of this like there's been a big public education campaign around fake pills fentanyl And deaths have gone down a lot in the last four years It's still too high young men are getting killed at higher rates from this than other groups, but like it's, it's gone down in every single state fentanyl and we have to give credit for Joe Biden to that, like DHS tried to make Trump responsible for this, but because of something he said or did in like 2017, but like the last four years under Biden fentanyl deaths have really gone down in every state except for one, Tim, do you want to know what state it is?

Alabama. South Dakota, Christie Noem, South Dakota, is the only state where fentanyl deaths were up last year, last year before. Must have been in the Canada. While she was still government. Must have been in the Canada trafficking. That has maybe, it has a lot to do, I think, actually with the, the native reservations there and that sort of drug problems they find, but like still, like a director of Homeland Security her home state is the is the only state while she was governor where fentanyl does anyway, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, back to the intelligence back to trend to Agua back to Stephen Miller, like you don't they say the courts are slowing them down. Maybe the courts are stopping them from doing flagrantly unconstitutional things, but their

efforts, deterrent efforts are working to stop the flow of migrants into the United States, period. Well, this is a fundamental conundrum that nobody likes to hear because it relates to both Biden successes and what has happened, successes of the border with Trump so far in the first couple months here. And nobody likes to be like, hey, great job, everybody. That's a very unpopular opinion on the internet. But not only is fentanyl down, not only is illegal immigration down too much, actually, in my view, we should, technically a healthy America should have more than 7,000 intercessions at the border because

there's a lot of jobs that undocumented migrants do that are very important for our economy and this is going to become a problem for us in the medium term. But anyway, I'll set that aside. But what else is down? Crime is down. Crime was down a ton last year. And the Republicans tried to make that not a thing and say that the FBI was juicing the data.

No matter how you look at it, I was just talking to this guy, he's a real crime data expert here in New Orleans. And he's like, you look at like most of the major cities, not every major city, like you've seen violent crime down to huge, particularly in New Orleans, but he was looking at other cities too. And like, that's just like reality. So like all of this stuff is down.

And so the Trump administration wants to like take credit for that, even though two thirds of it, three quarters of it happened during Biden, but also say that we're in a crisis and an emergency that requires us suspending habeas corpus so that Stephen Miller can deport, you know, 19 year olds who came who were brought here when they were four and haven't done anything, we're falsely accused of not turning on their right turn signal, right? Like that's that, that is the juggle here and they're able to do that because

like in their little echo chamber, like that conflict doesn't break through. Maybe you can try to break it through a scotch innings tonight, like, which is, so like we cannot be in a crisis and have things be going very well. Like those two things don't, don't, don't, can't coexist, but they do coexist in the Fox ecosystem. Yeah. Yeah, no, you're exactly right. I'll bring that up tonight.

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I guess today, tomorrow, Sunday, Sunday, this weekend. The new Pope, Pope Leo, White So, tomorrow, Sunday, Sunday, this weekend. The new Pope, Pope Leo, White Sox fan, our listeners certainly know this, posted this about JD Vance just a couple months ago, JD Vance is wrong, period. Jesus doesn't ask us to rank our love for others. This was a reaction to this kind of pompous JD remark about Ordo and Morris and how there's an ordering and Jesus teaches us to have an ordering of our love and people closest to us we should love more and immigrants feel for other countries we don't like we can love them but like they're just not quite as important because Ordo and Morris and

the new Pope was just like no no, not wrong, JD. And yet JD is unswayed. The Catholic convert is going to the mass there in Vatican city. So I wonder if you have any thoughts about that? I mean, stepping back, I'd prefer that Trump and JD Vance don't spend their time attacking the Vatican and the new pope, but you know, they did the old Pope.

So, uh, it's annoying. I mean, I am pro new Pope, pro Leo. I went to Georgetown, you went to GW, like both of us grew up Catholic. I went to a Jesuit university and despite not going to church. Jesuit high school for me. I had, I love the Jesuits, but I had had enough of them after four years. And I walked into Georgetown and saw the little AMDG, you know, kind of iconography around. And I was like, guys, I need a little, I need a break for this.

They probably also wouldn't have let me in, but that's for, that's for you. Yeah, no, I, you would have absolutely been waitlisted. I got in. So just want people to know that. You want to, my safety school, GW. Just kidding. Graze high. You know, I will say, you know, the Jesuits would probably be one of the most progressive

orders of the priesthood. I learned so much. We had to take a class called the problem of God at Georgetown. It was a forced requirement, like a theology class. And like, look, like the thing I know about JD Vance is he's a smart guy, but like he's smart in the way like a podcaster, smart like us, you know, you kind of Google facts here and there and like, pretend you're an intellectual. I don't know if he has like a coherent, like theological worldview. I just don't. I know he like sort of tweets and posts about it and had like a moody blog spot back in the day. I'm sorry. Yeah.

I mean, I don't, nothing against converts. A lot of good converts. He's also fake in addition to all of this, right? He's had three names, you know, kind of four names really. He's changed his name several times. He changed his name in his mid twenties. He's had several different religions. He's had several different political ideologies.

Just like it's hard to take it seriously. It's hard to take being lectured by somebody about Ordo Amoris seriously when they're on their fourth name and second religion and then third political ideology in their early 40s. The best take down of the Ordo Amoris tweet that JD Vance put out in February actually comes from a Jesuit publication

that I will admit, Tim, I actually subscribed at home to America magazine. Oh wow. While I lived in DC. It's sort of a, you know, just Jesuit magazine and they basically write about the world through, you know, Catholic lens. This is kind of JVL territory maybe, but. I don't think there might be a little lid for him.

He basically wrote like, this guy, Steven Pope, he's a professor of theological ethics at Boston College. I don't know what IQ score JD Vance would bestow upon him. Seems like a pretty smart guy, but he wrote a very good takedown of the Ordo Amoris thing back in February. And it's basically what I agree with. Like the way JD Vance was talking about Ordo Amoris

was that, you know, it's like zero sum. Like you can either love your family and your neighbors first to the exclusion of that, you know, it's like zero sum. Like you can either love your family and your neighbors first to the exclusion of loving, you know, a larger community or the suffering and the oppressed. And basically like this guy, Steven Pope wrote a very good, thoughtful, not like snarky DC kind of takedown of what JD Van said. And he said, quote, this amounts to little more than window dressing for a cramped self-interested in-group morality

that falls drastically short of the account of the order of love proposed by Aquinas and expanded by Catholic social teachings. The other thing he pointed out, which is really fucking obvious, is that Aquinas was not thinking about states and borders and immigration policy. When he wrote that shit back in the 13th century, the state of Italy where Thomas Aquinas is

from didn't even become a country until 1860, 1861. And so there are, I don't know, it's just so stupid, like him cherry picking this stuff. 13th century, that's a good poll. I was like, is that right? And I just Googled it here like a podcaster and you are correct, 13th century. That's true. I just, I love the Jebby's, man.

They're great. We have a sponsor, the Jesuit Refugee Services was a sponsor for a little while supporting their refugee efforts. And so I encourage people to go support that if they're looking for something to donate to. We're just going to go through a bunch of other stuff here. Have you ever seen, you see that meme that goes around? It's not really a meme, it's a story. It's a woman who posted that her dad like meets with his buddies at a bar in Wisconsin once a week and they have like an agenda, and she tweets out the agenda.

We're going to kind of do that for the rest of the podcast, because I have an agenda of other topics with you. I want to just tick through. The reconciliation is the first one, big, beautiful bill. Things aren't looking that great. I mean, I still, my prior is still that eventually they'll figure out how to squeeze it through just because it would be so, I mean, like it'd be unbelievable for them to not be able to pass a single thing and that Trump's only priority doesn't get through and then the Trump tax cuts expire.

It's just like really hard to imagine that scenario coming to pass. And yet, they're supposed to be doing the first step in this process today without getting into too much Hill jargon. But Chip Roy has been saying he's against it because getting into too much Hill jargon. But Chip Roy has been saying he's against it because there's too much debt. Ralph Norman just came on right before we came out and said he's a no. He's a weird guy that was like pro insurrection, but then supported Nikki Haley in the primary. So he's an interesting character. You can get into Ralph Norman if you want. But then there's the other side of the group, which

is kind of the California, New York, New Jersey Republicans who are upset about the salt deduction. I did a big rant about that on the next level this week. They're against it because it isn't doing enough. Are you pro-salt or anti-salt? Me? Yeah. I don't give a fuck about salt, which is the appropriate position about salt. My rant was like, I just can't imagine that Mike Lawler is going to be sitting in his

rocking chair in his 80s and having his grandkid come by and say, you know what PAPA really fought for back in the Trump years? You know the one thing that I really fought for? The state and local tax deduction. That's the thing that was really the deal breaker for me. Anyway, whatever. I'm pro-salt deduction out here in California. I get that though.

I'm sure you are. I'm down here in Louisiana with my low taxes. I don't give a fuck if you guys get to deduct it. I also just don't really, I don't care about the salt deduction is really, and I think the appropriate position for people to have about the salt deduction is not caring. So there's a group of people that are basically preventing, they have a very narrow majority and they can't get it through. So you got some colleagues at Puck who follow this kind of more closely than us.

What's your take on the state of affairs? Yeah, no, I mean, two seat majority in the house. Mike Johnson, the speaker, obviously tries to project confidence about getting this through. But yeah, I mean, my colleagues, Abby Livingston and Leanne Caldwell at Puck are great. Please follow them. But they've they've informed my thinking on this. But there's also the fact that we've been through these things before.

And I think you're right to say they'll probably get something done. Like I went back and looked at, and this is the reason like they have to get something done this year, I think, is that narrow majority. If you go back and look at the inflation reduction act, what was that? Was that build back better? Well, it was originally something else. Yeah, build back better. Yes.

You know, it took, I think they introduced it in like summer 2021. And Biden didn't sign that thing till November of 2022. Like it took like 14, 15 months. And like part of that was the mansion sort of stuff. Like these things take forever. They also were doing other stuff simultaneously in fairness, it was a little different than this. They're doing infrastructure and the gun bill and stuff.

And these guys have like done nothing. And by the way, those things were passed with a few Republican votes too. Bipartisan, yeah. Bipartisan. This will not be bipartisan. You also get to the Senate and Jake and Anna at Punchbowl were smart on this the other day. As much confidence as Mike Johnson is projecting,

it's like, we're going to get this done and the Senate's going to do it. Like Jay Sherman on his podcast was like, no they're fucking not. It's the Senate. Like Ron Johnson the other day was like, we're not going to pass this bill. They've got their own rules. They got the bird rule.

There are no salt deduction Republicans in the Senate by the way. So like if they do put salt in the House bill, it might die in the Senate. And it's just going to take a long time to reconcile these two bills. But like right now, like Mike Johnson still has to get it through budget, get it through rules,

get it passed on a floor vote. And you've got people like Ralph Norman, like saying, now we're good. Like, I don't know. I don't think this is going to get done before next week, which is what they want, right? They want this done before Memorial day. I mean, maybe something will get done, but I do eventually think there

will be some bill that gets through. I just don't know if it's going to have all the goodies that everyone wants, but that's how, that's how the sausage gets made. No, it's uglier than I thought that. Do you agree with that? It's like a little bit. I just figured because it's the only thing my prior was that my prior is always like, these guys can't do anything.

They're a clusterfuck. And yet they have to do one thing. It's extending the Trump tax cuts and like people just get on board. As it was my, and so it's been kind of surprising how many have been like, eh, no, actually. Yeah. My colleague, Abby Livingston said, we did a podcast about this for, for my podcast a few weeks ago and she's written about this.

Like we all kind of think that Mike Johnson is like notionally a good speaker because he was the choice after they cycled through all the McCarthy drama, right? Like he's been speaker for like 18 months and go, wow, he's surviving. But she was pointing out that there are some voices, and not just the Ralph Normans and the, you know, Chip Roy's in the House, who like don't see him as like a super capable leader. Like he basically, and I might be butchering

Abby's words here, but he defers everything to these committees and then kind of waits till the last minute, you know, rides the lightning. Hopefully Donald Trump makes some phone calls. He does the whipping. Like he's the one who's going to call and strong arm people to vote for the bill. Right. And Trump will, and then, you know, maybe it'll skate through and Mike

Johnson will get credit, but he's not like, no one thinks Kevin McCarthy was like the president of Mensa and like some brilliant policy mind, but like, you know, Paul Ryan and Boehner would be like either in there muscling through like in whipping votes or like tweaking policy and like being on the phone with members of the Senate at the same time and the White House if they had it. And like no one's trying to survive in here.

He's just trying to keep everybody happy. Absolutely. Just trying to survive. Pop pop. What did you do when we were sending people to the concentration camps in El Salvador? I laid down the line on the salt deduction, little Oakley. If you're a lawler, by the way, on this topic. Oakley, don't you worry about Oakley. I stood up to Trump. I know you're reading about him in school and how he tried an insurrection

and put people in concentration camps. But what I did was I said, no, sir. Did Mike Lawler name his- I will not support your tax cuts unless it includes a state and local tax deduction for upper middle class earners in North New Jersey. In your imagination, is Mike Lawler's hypothetical grandchild named after Charles Oakley? No, it's like Oakley, O-A-K-L-E-I-G-H, very popular name down here in the South now. Oh, that sounds like one of those Utah Mormon names.

Yeah, no, not like Charles Oakley. That'd be pretty cool though. Jaden, don't you worry. Your pop-up stood strong for that salt deduction. I had the only thing I cared about. I wore a little pin. So there's a list. Salt on it.

There's a list actually that went viral the other day of the most Republican and Democratic children's names. Oakley was on the Republican list. I did. That's why I got Oakley. Oh, got it. Got it. I got you.

Yeah. Like Cohen with a K is a very popular boy name for a baby, K-O-H-E-N, Baylor, Stetson, great SEC quarterback name as we know, Kyson, K-Y-S-O-N, Tripp, which is great southern name because you can do it in two syllables like Parker Posey. Tripp, come over here, come and get your dinner, Tripp. Sutton, Sutton, same name, Briggs. Sutton was one of my attorneys for awhile.

If you name your kid Briggs, he is not graduated from college. Cohen, Gunner, you hear a lot. Gunner's like a vintage like Utah name. And then Baker. Cohen is going to be so proud of Pop Pop for standing up for that. Yeah, Oakley is number three on the girl names for Republicans. Why don't make sure you get that deduction in. That's the thing to fight for.

Um, if you get into public service. Okay. I want to talk about the Democrats. Boy, you know, a story this week about a poll about the Democrats and people don't, people don't like them very much. I don't, I don't know. Okay. I'm going to be, let me give you the contrarian view here.

Cause on the face view, which you wrote about, which we'll hear from is that like, boy, the Democrats are fucking unpopular. This is insane how unpopular they are. They're way more unpopular than Trump. And that's bad. I can be more unpopular than Trump. And there's certainly something to be said for that. But part of it, like the reason in our polarized age that you start to get bad

numbers is when people that like are already for you are saying they don't like you, right? Like it's when people like that's how W's numbers started to get bad. It's like when Republicans started to be like, fuck you, I don't like this, right? And so the Democrats, I feel like it's, it's their numbers are bad, but the problem feels kind of fixable because there's like a low hanging fruit group of people out there who want to like them. They're just not being given anything to like. What do you make of that counter counterpoint? Or do you think it's just a total disaster and they need major changes?

I think it's the latter. I mean, I maybe it's because I live in the universe of like, like thinking a lot about like Gen Z and younger voters. I know you do too. You've got your pod with Cameron, you know, that generation thinks both parties are terrible. Even the young people, young men who voted for Trump, like I wouldn't say they move right. I would say they moved away from the democratic party and toward Trump, but

right now they've also left Donald Trump because they don't like think he's doing any of the right things on the economy. Man, it's like I've been to like high info. That's the word like MSNBC, Pod Save America, listening audiences. Like I went to a Ro Khanna event, one of those things he did out here in California in a Republican district when the Doge stuff was happening, right? The kind of people who protested Tesla dealerships and like they, people lined up to scream at him and he did a good job, bro.

But it was kind of just like public therapy. Um, and there's that. Yeah, I guess that's my point. I think there's some underlying issues that are greater, but just really quick on that group, that type of person you're talking about. This is my point. Like those people are going to come around around like they're venting they've lost They've just lost to Trump again the second time they're fucking pissed. I think the Democrats are pussies, but eventually they're like there's no really underlying

Weakness there. There are some other groups that there's some real underlying issues with I think I guess that was yeah Yeah, so one is the cut. This is you're like Katie, you like cut me out before I finished my thought. So, um, she's nine months pregnant. Okay. You, you look for, you leave her be, she can cut you off whenever she fucking damn well, please. I let her, I let her there, but there are people, Katie's a good example, you know, not like Katie is a Democrat and like a lot, we have lots of

friends out here and blue Los Angeles, who are Democrats who are college educated people who after the last election, you know, by the way, they like were exhausted by the first Trump term lived through Biden, weren't in love with Biden, but glad he was there. And then after the Slack selection, aren't tuning out completely, you know, they're not like these academics fleeing to Canada, but they're just like not. Can I interrupt you on this one? Yeah. Fuck you.

If you're fucking university professor and you're going to Canada. Okay. If you have serious concerns, if you have your wife or husband or kid are not full citizens or a student visa or something and you need to flee, fine. If you love Toronto and you want to go there, great. Toronto seems great to me. But if you're going to go there because you're scared of Donald Trump and you're a US citizen who works at Yale, please. They're a lot of police. And you're going to go to

the New York Times and talk about how great, please. There are a lot of people out there who have real fears, not US citizens who work for Yale and have teams of lawyers that would help them. Yeah. Ben Rhodes had a great post about this on Wednesday. You don't have to be an expert to know that we need people to stay in this country to oppose fascism instead of writing op-eds about leaving it.

Thank you, Ben. Ben, by the way, is like a good voice of moral clarity, I feel like. I need to have that on the pod. You do, he's good. On the topics that you care about a lot. So anyway, not like you have the people who graduated college who vote in every democratic election,

probably more like the former camp we just talked about, but they're not paying attention right now. They're kind of apathetic. They don't care. They don't like the party. I do think those people will come around, but they need someone to grab them and like get them to care. And maybe that doesn't happen until 2027 when the primaries start and you've got new leaders

shaping new messages. And then you've got the sort of subgroups that Donald Trump did well with last year. And by the way, not doing well with them now, but you have the young men, you have, you know, some black men, Latino men, like, you know, in Georgia, like, Kamel only won Latinos by Latinos total by like 12 points, right? Like, there are different subgroups. And they are that they are the I know Rob Flaherty called them the kind of opt out voter, like in that New York Times up at a few weeks ago. I mean, they think Democrats are just, you know, you use the

P word like total pussies. Like we did a word cloud with Echelon for this piece I wrote this week that you mentioned. Let me pull it up. And it's like, it's so bad. We asked all likely voters, Puck and Echelon insights, just to say the first word that comes to mind when you think of the Democratic Party. The top answers, Tim, were liberal, weak, corrupt, and liars. Those are all voters. That includes the independents that Democrats probably need to pull back. That includes the people watching Newsmax.

It includes them too, yes. But then you go to the first word that comes to mind when Democrats think of the Democratic Party. So we're asking Dem and Dem leaners what they think. Weak, fair, liberal, good. But then you also have ineffective, disorganized. And then there's other sort of like hippie dippy things like equality, hopeful, democracy, caring. But you also some words pop up in here and it's like spineless, you know, passive, confused.

Like these are big words that Democrats are saying. By the way, this is one little example. I don't know what a Democrat, what do you think they would have said in, you know, 2014 about the Democrats? You know, it probably would have been better, but I'm trying to imagine what would be different because you get a lot of the base people in there saying Democrats are weak. But I was interested to hear Democrats call themselves liberal. I don't know, but that was kind of interesting. Like I think the party is grappling with the fact that they are perceived as too far to the left.

Like, that's a real thing. That's why Gavin Newsom is sort of, like, nakedly pivoting to the right or to the middle, depending on your perspective. I want to get to the Gavin thing, because I actually, because you've been covering this very closely, but just really quick on Biden, because it's wrapped up in all this. I like, can't even, I don't even want to talk about Joe Biden anymore. I just, it makes me so upset and, and I've said everything, everyone listens to snow, so I think about Biden, but we have a good article today from

Steve Shaley, who's a Florida, Florida guy, uh, from Duval County, who was with Biden back in 2016 loves Biden, likes the Biden political project, likes him personally is a, Biden-y in his temperament and ideology across the board. This is not an inner circle person who hung out with Biden at his beach house, but it's also not just like some hired hand. Like it was somebody who's there early. He wrote exclusively for the bulwark, basically saying, pleading frankly, in a kind way with Joe Biden to like stop trying to defend

his legacy. It's not helping. And that he doesn't, he's not saying you should just go away, which is what I think. But Steve is saying that he should, you know, meet with union guys and go to foreign, to places around the world where he had, you know, where there are some policy that he cared about the USAID used to do. Like go just do stuff that shows that he cares about people rather than a media tour that shows that he cares about his legacy. I thought it was a very smart piece of advice. I hope the former president takes it, but I just want to kind of an open, open opportunity for you to weigh in on that piece or anything else about the Biden and the Tapper book or

you know, any related issue. I'm glad Steve wrote that for you guys. Steve's a friend of mine too. I worked with him on a story I wrote recently about these focus groups that, you know, Unite the Country is a super PAC. He ran for Biden, not the main one, but they have some leftover funds and Steve is very much interested in figuring out why not just places like like, you know, Michigan and Pennsylvania flip to Trump, but the states that he won with Obama, right? Like Florida, Iowa, Ohio, like, especially with like the new census, like it's going to get harder and harder for Democrats when the electoral college. And so Steve is very interested in listening to people rather than a

lot of people on Twitter who are just yelling at people. I agree that he shouldn't go on the view. I think Joe Biden, it's not just that like Democrats want him to go away. You know, they don't want to see his face, like any unpopular former president who just lost, you know, go off into the sunset. But like it's that it's not helping him either. You know, every time he, this happened when he was in the throes of being like dragged out of the race after,

you know, thanks to you, Tim, no, I'm just kidding. After the debate, you know. Don't blame me, it's George Clooney. He did that like NATO presser. And the first thing out of his mouth was he confused Putin and Zelensky. Like it just, and like, and then he did like a tour de force or whatever, like the Biden people were saying. It's just, he's not good.

He trailed off. He's never been a good communicator, even before the quote unquote decline. We've known that. That was the number one thing people thought about Joe Biden, right? They thought two things actually. Scranton Joe, compassionate guy. What was the onion meme that he would like be working on his trans am and the White House driveway.

Like that kind of went away. And then, but the other thing was like gaffes. Like he just talks too much, whatever. And then it got worse. So yeah, I mean, I had thought about- The 7-Eleven Indian thing, guy thing, that was like, goes back 20 years. I watched your interview with him, you posted it

cause you're like, you know, people are like, oh, the media didn't talk about this. The media talked about it. You interviewed him, asked him about his age five years ago, I guess. And I went and watched that clip. And if you watch that clip, a, he just looks unbelievably better than he does now, which is just natural again, but that's just reality. You have to realize it.

But even in that clip where he looked better, he still had some like, he was still Biden, like he was still stumbling over things sometimes. And, you know. Yeah. Now I agree. The thing that was interesting that Steve wrote that you mentioned is I hadn't thought about him and he doesn't need to take the media along. Right? Like go, go back to your roots, you know, like maybe go hang out in some communities

and talk to people and listen to people or go find an issue you care about. But like going on The View or, you know, BBC, like, I don't know, I don't get it. I don't get it. All right, over to Gavin. So the past, the future, 2028. I just wrote down here, what is happening with Gavin? You've actually talked to him,

you got to spend some time with him lately. And I haven't, I mean, I guess. No, I haven't talked to him. You haven't? Talked to people around him. Okay, got it, sorry. I thought you't talked to him. You haven't? Talked to people around him. Okay, got it. I thought you've talked with him. But I live out here, so I see him every day.

Yeah, you're seeing a lot more Gavin than me, I guess. I saw this news item come across. It said, breaking news, Governor Gavin Newsom will call for California to scale back healthcare for undocumented immigrants to help balance its budget. I'm for balanced budgets, so I don't know enough about the details of this proposal to weigh in on it one way or the other as a policy. It is very notable though as a political move. That is not a headline that Gavin Newsom's team would have wanted to be pushing out in

2019 or 2023 for that matter. Even if they were kind of doing that, they would try to shade it so that it was, you know, they're there. So it felt more, I don't know, humanitarian or whatever. Yeah, there's a series of issues. There's this and then with the Charlie Kirk thing, he's pivoting on the on the transports. And so I don't know, I'm less interested in your view on like, or, because who cares, whatever all of our opinion is on each individual issue, like, what is the

politics? What's happening? Is he is intentionally moving to the middle, do you think? Or is that overstating it? Or? No, no, I think it's interesting. And I talked to our mutual friend, James Carville, about this the other day. And he was like, it's interesting, like just macro level, you've got like Donald Trump moving left on certain issues, which you might disagree with, or at least taking up the former Democrats, former stronghold spaces, ideologically, you know. No, I don't disagree with that.

Donald Trump is extremely heterodox. It's hard for people to rash that in their head. Like he's a fascist, but he also takes like random positions that are more left, like he does both. Right. But then Carville was like, it's interesting that you have that. And you also have Gavin Newsom moving to the right.

And I think he kind of is, it's hard for him because he one, represents California. Two, has now taken positions that he's flip-flopping on as he moves back to the right. I look, I think let's talk about Medi-Cal and then the trans thing. Those are two of the biggest, when you think about what Newsom said recently. By the way, I'm one of the few people that thinks the Gavin Newsom podcast was good. Rarely in media do you see a space where two people of completely different

universes come together for a long form conversation. Doesn't happen. And like the very fact that he was attacked by very online liberals for doing it, to me means he's doing something right. Cause those people have been wrong way too many times. So like, I get that, whatever. I think he handled the Charlie Kirk thing a little poorly, but like go back, watch the Bannon interview.

I thought it was pretty good. He has fallen below me in the ratings, I'll say. Oh. He has beating me for a while, but he's fallen below. So basically what's happening out here in California, Tim, is we're looking up on a big budget shortfall out here. And so Newsom is basically saying that he's going to freeze enrollments for immigrants without legal status. And basically it's going to save the state, in his words, like $5 billion, but he started this program in 2023. So, you know, people who illegal immigrants

who are already enrolled in Medi-Cal get to keep it, but he's going to cap enrollment for new ones and make them pay premiums. And so this isn't like Keir Starmer in the UK, I sent this to you the other day, basically saying, you got to speak English before you can come to the UK, which is like a big immigration move and a big pivot from a neoliberal party. The United Kingdom's different than the United States. Yeah, well, yeah, you're right.

We obviously have many Spanish speaking people here a lot, seem to be the majority probably in this country. And we're not a blood and soil country with a fucking king and queen. I mean, even the Libs there are happy with their monarchy. Okay. So, you know, it's just a little bit. Okay.

Okay. That's a good, that's a good check on what I was no kings, no kings here in America. So June 14th protest. It's hard to look at that. And he's blaming by that. He's blaming the budget drop off on what he's calling the Trump slump. And he's sort of saying, like, the tariffs are impacting the budget, which is not now, like basically he was saying like capital gains are going to be lower because the markets

are down. It's like that doesn't impact the current budget. Like it's a little mealy mouth what he's doing, but it seems all under the umbrella of pivoting toward a more pragmatic approach to campaigning and governing and getting away from, you know, Latinx and youth transports and like the things that are bad for Democrats on the culture front. The problem with Gavin is it seems, but this might work in his favor if he runs, but like it seems so obvious and transactional. So looked at one way, it's like obvious flip flops, trying to shed the liberal California thing as he pivots to South

Carolina and New Hampshire, whatever Michigan. The flip side is Democrats need someone who will say any fucking thing to win, who will do anything to win, who like looks like a president. Like he's not, he's not like Mr. retail, like he can be a little awkward in person and with the media and then he does those hand gestures. He looks like a president. He's not like Mr. Retail. He can be a little awkward in person and with the media and he does those hand gestures. He watches videos enough.

It's a little awkward and stilted, but he's willing to throw a punch and willing to do what it takes to win elections. That falls under the just win baby category of the James Carville philosophy. I have a bold idea for him though. I just think that the best thing that he could do would be to govern better. I think that a lot of this stuff is trying to, like you're doing the podcast, and this could be totally wrong by the way, I don't know, but that's just my, would be my advice, is like the podcast thing and we're doing these pivots and it's like, I don't know, the other story, I brought this up with Justin Wolf-

Can I just say something? Like people, let me just say something because I live here and I see more local news. Like everyone assumes California is dragged down by crime and homelessness. And it certainly would be a liability if you ran for president, but like in LA, for example, you've got all these overlapping interests.

We talked about this on the podcast I did with you about the fires. It's like you've got the county and the city. Yeah, well, this is really quick on the fires. Then you can go, this is what I was going to say, seven new permits. They've done seven new building permits so far in Altadena and Pacific Palisades and whatever the other one is. That seems not enough. Yeah. You know? And I do just wonder- He's invested more in wildfire response

and resilience than any previous California governor. They've passed gun laws. They passed abortion protections. Yeah, it's California. But then there's all their like interesting things that he's done. For example, he passed a law where rappers could not be charged for crimes based on lyrics in their songs. Right? This is what this is with the like Young Thug trial in Georgia. Like Fonny Willis, the DA, one of the big parts of their case against him and Gunna was like, you said in your song that you capped that guy. And that is what we're using as evidence for that guy being capped. Newsome passed a law, because it is a specious connection, Newsome passed a law blocking

that. He capped tailpipe emissions in California. Every other state in the country follows what California does because we're the biggest auto consumer market. And so put aside electric cars, capping tailpipe emissions like basically implementing standards There is going to influence, you know Carbon output for a long time to come not perfect But the the guy because it is a one-party state has passed so many interesting laws

Some might be too liberal some like but I just do think he has some He's a smart guy and it would be silly to just reduce him to the California liberal. I think- California forever. I was hoping you were to give a liberal defense of California, Peter, and put me back in my former free market Republican box, and where I'm criticizing the mismanagement of your blue paradise. We're going long.

It's fine. It's a Rogan podcast. But I got a few more things on the agenda here. so let's kind of keep it snappy for people. Do you think Kamala Harris is going to run for governor of your state? Man, what was the Philippe Rines quote that he gave to the New York Times last time? Can you hear me sighing? So here's the thing, like I don't currently don't think she can win the presidency. She's run twice and lost. I don't currently don't think she can win the presidency. She's run twice and lost.

I don't think Democrats hate her, but I don't think they're passionate for her. Like look at polls, national polls of Democrats. She's at 30%. People like, oh, she's the front nurse is going to win. That means 70% of Democrats want someone else. That's what I see when I look at that poll. Because of the budget issues I just mentioned, being governor of California is going to be a shitty job for the next four to eight years. And again, as we have learned with her over the years, she is a prosecutor.

She's always better being like running the office than being like a consensus builder in a deliberative body, I think. and being like a consensus builder in a deliberative body, I think. But you know, she can win in California. And I think politicians generally need to think about what job do you want rather than what job do you think you should have? Like that seems to be a better approach to anyone in life. The wild card is not running for anything.

You know, go to the Met Gala, start a think tank, but like politicians aren't built us that way It's hard to step away. I don't know. I mean, I think yeah, I don't know. I don't have an answer for that I she would she's not a sure thing in California, by the way It depends how deferential these other Democrats are like does Katie Porter get out of the race if she gets in Because you know again like her she's the universal name idea out here among Democrats. And, you know, I've seen some polling that shows, again, not beloved. I don't know who would beat her, but I'm saying it could be closer than people think. But

I think it's more gettable than the Democratic nomination in the presidency. What do you think? I like Kamala. I genuinely like her. Yeah, I like her too. I like Kamala. I just like, and we, I like her too. I like Kamala. I just like, and we're not friends, but as a friend, I would tell her to not run for president again. I think it would be very painful.

So I don't, the governor's race, I'd, I'd, Can you, can you expand on that for listeners? I just think it would remind me of, you know, I'm trying to think of like a past campaign for like, like Fred Thompson's campaign kind of, you know, like somebody who it's just, you like your best day is your first day. Not really that dissimilar from Jeb's campaign really. And our campaign was kind of sad, but it was Jeb. But like, it's a little different because she had already run for president. And it's just, I think that like, I don't know, what about Dan Quayle's campaign for president? Like you've been vice president

and then you finished seventh in the Iowa caucus. Like those are sad days, you know, driving to driving to Portsmouth show up to an event with 13 people at it. When you're in sixth place behind, you know, Raphael Warnock and Pete and whoever else best, I don't know, like whatever any like literally any new person that comes in. Well, if you think about if you think about Hillary before Trump, with different time, different era, but it's like Hillary ran the first time, had that slugfest with Obama, worked out well.

She became Secretary of State. And then she was next in line. And you know, and Shea writes in his bulwark piece about how he encouraged Biden to run in 2016, whatever. But everyone was afraid to run against Hillary, despite the evidence being there that she was vulnerable. Um, no one would be afraid to run against Kamala this time.

Like no one, it's going to be a big field. Um, maybe Beto Johnson. I don't think, I don't think she should do it. I had Andrew Egger, my colleague on, we were talking about the porn bands. He had some harsh things to say about the bar stool bros. This is another one of your beats, the Manosphere. And I felt like you had some point, we wanted to make some points contra Egger who was lamenting the Democrats might need to, you know, pander more to the Yvonne podcast listeners.

So I just wanted to hear what your counterpoint was on that. Look, Andrew is a good reporter. He's a sweet boy. Listen, it's sort of like the John Fetterman take, which I agreed with, which is that just the first step here is stop calling them bros. You know, like there's an air of condescension. I call you bro.

You are my bro. Yeah. You are my bro. What should we call him? What am I supposed to call fucking Theo Vonn? He's not a bro Talking about like like a 22 year old black guy in Cleveland who commutes to school and works two jobs who voted for Donald Trump

Like like this is that this is the thing. There's a category error in Washington Multiple when they talk about the bro vote like again, this is me, this is me. I just don't, this is where my Republican comes in. I don't like the lib, the lib view. It's too many times. My biggest complaint about listener feedback. It's like, Tim, you shouldn't say this word. You should say that word.

Okay, whatever. Put that aside. Come on. Put that aside, put that aside. That's just my personal thing. But here's the thing, Andrew and others, other reporters, you know, what's that meme of the New York Times guy who like was stroking his chin interviewing Pete Buttigieg.

What was that guy's name? Oh, Pete. He's the same guy that said that LSU shouldn't, is shameful that LSU gave the students the day off to celebrate the national championship and they won the national championship in football and said that you know attacked institutes of higher learning. Yeah it's uh uh fuck what's that guy's name um we gotta we gotta look this up that's uh New York Times editorial writer beard I'll look this up. That's a New York Times editorial writer, beard,

bread prices. This is so funny. I just, oh, Benjamin Applebaum or Benjamin Applebaum. Okay, so I'll start over here. So Benjamin Applebaum, not a bro. Benjamin Applebaum, not a bro, but embodies the sort of journalistic type as, you know, New York Times is a perfect hub for these people

where they haven't. This is not necessarily Andrew because he's been outside of the beltway. I was going to say Andrew is catching a fucking. No, no, no, no, sorry. You're going to compare it to Benjamin. He said, Andrew said, Andrew said a phrase that like, oh, it sucks that the smooth brained Barstool bros are the people that are going to determine politics for the coming like elections, generations, whatever.

That's such an oversimplification of young men in this country of all races, classes, and backgrounds. Some of this I'm stealing from John De La Volpe at Harvard, but there are different categories of young men. Yes, there are Barstool bros who like Portnoy and like gambling on sports and like crypto and like the stock market. Great. But they're also like progressive on social issues.

They just want to hang out. Then there's like over here, there's like the Charlie Kirk people who are the MAGA red hats. Okay. And then over here are the kind of young men who like didn't go to college, white, black, Latino, who are working class. Maybe they go to community college.

They don't think about politics at all. Right. You know, but they did last year, think about the price of meat and think about the price of gas and think about the interest rate they're carrying on their credit card and thinking about healthcare. These are all people I met during my college tour last year that I texted you about all the time. So like there are all these different kinds of young men. The bigger picture, I think, is that, you know, Democrats haven't been welcoming to young men. They just haven't since the Obama years. Like, think about the institutions in our culture, Tim. They're say, look at a young man and say, hey, come on in, let's hang out.

It's the Republican Party, it's churches, it's gaming and online communities, and it's sports. And everywhere else, it's like, you know, you can't, the thing that I liked about the Pete Buttigieg interview on Andrew Schultz, it wasn't just that he like went in there and did a 10 minute interview. And this in fairness, like I don't, I think men can do this and it would be impossible for a woman to go on Andrew Schultz and do the same thing. And that doesn't say anything about women. They're just different spaces and different kinds of people.

Well, cause Andrew Schultz, just to put a finer point on this, the Andrew Schultz, it is specifically branded as like the man cave. Like that's what it is. Like this is a place where guys can go and talk about guys' stuff. And so that's why it's not, that is why it would be more challenging for a woman to go into that because that is like what the, like, like that's the whole conceit, you know, of the show. Yeah. And that was the point of my piece was that's a place where people, Shane Gillis has podcasted the same way. Like no one thinks Shane Gillis is like going to Trump rallies and like, like

rooting for deportations, he's just a dude who's likes to hang out and talk about like sports and farts and girls and history and like for three hours. And like there's not a lot of Democrats who can go hang out for three hours. And Andrew Schultz, by the way, like I know you did like don't like him, but like I watched that Pete thing twice through and him and his co-hosts all asked very reasonable, thoughtful questions about the world and the democratic party. And everyone just sort of sneers at these people like Benjamin Applebaum at the New York Times, like stroking his chin, like, oh, wow, interesting.

Like people need to like stop thinking about young men like they're going on safari in Africa and like interviewing different people and like taking pictures of them and pointing at them. Like go spend time, not in like the diners, dude. Like go to fucking Colorado, go to Cincinnati, like go to fucking New Orleans. I agree with this. I don't, I don't agree with one part, which is I do think that for some reason, like young men and magas are like the only people that get to be fragile anymore. And like young men and Magas are like the only people that get to be fragile anymore. It's just like, it's like, if I make fun of Andrew Schultz, I'm sneering at him. But if Andrew Schultz spends the whole pod making fun of fucking trans people,

and it's like, whatever, you know, it's like, okay, that's not sneering. They can take shit. They give shit, they can take shit. I guess that's my only place I disagree. They can take shit. Here's something Democrats, here's something Democrats need to grapple with. The biggest demographic outlier in American politics isn't young men. It's not Trump people. It's young Gen Z women who are so far to the left. Steve Kornacki did a whole thing about this last month.

They are so far to the left and away from the median voter that they're the outliers. Young men are way closer to the median voter on public opinion on approval rating about Donald Trump on various issues. Like there's all, there's Gen Z men, Gen Z women, like millennial men, millennial women, Gen X, whatever. Like young women are over here and like young men are like here. Like Democrats, the problem, the challenge for them

is they've got to appease these folks in Greenpoint while also pulling back these people in Raleigh who like think these people are too liberal. And like, it's just really fucking hard right now, but we need to acknowledge that. Like the problem isn't just like young men, like young women who live on the internet. I just don't want them to be such fucking snowflakes. Like I can make fun of them and have it not be like, oh, oh, they're sneering. They're sneering. Who sneers more than fucking Andrew Schultz

and Shane Killis' old shtick is sneering at people. Like that's fine. That's okay. It's just like, oh, but he can't be sneered at. I think he sneers less. What? He sneers, it's just in his own way. It's just in his own way.

He makes fun of people. But even Barstool, like people think like Barstool is a bunch of like Republican fascists. Have you listened to a Barstool podcast? even Barstool. People think Barstool is a bunch of Republican fascists. It's not. Have you listened to a Barstool podcast? No, it's not. Well, so this is my point. This is the point where I agree with you.

I'm just like, we don't have to be so gentle with them. But part of the problem is that who's staffing the Democrats' campaign? So a lot of the young women who are very far to the left and a lot of gays, let's just be honest. That's just who's on the staff. And so it would be helpful for the Democrats to have staff that are more closer to the median voter. This is, I hope I know that you have these same conversations, but when I met you in

2011, like if I, 2010 maybe, if I like went to Ted Strickland's campaign in Ohio, back when Ohio was competitive and hung out with like Liz and like her staff. Lily was on that staff too. There were straight guys who could talk about sports and hang out. And like, that's not like essential, but I see so many, and I hear this from staffers, men, gay men, straight men, women. Like I've seen campaign offices for Democrats running for office now. How Senate Gov, it is women and gay men. Yeah, they're super diverse.

And that's the base of the party. And they aren't, one, there's two problems here. One, if you're a com staffer, you want to impress your boss. And what does your boss do? Your boss watches MSNBC, so you go on MSNBC. Two, if you do listen to podcasts in different spaces, like here's one, ComeTown. Democrats should definitely go on ComeTown.

Like with staff, but like imagine going up to like, you know, Ron Wyden and being like, Senator, we booked you on ComeTown. Alyssa, Alyssa, I booked you for 90 minutes on Come town. OK, we're going to have a couple of topics. Yeah. And then the other thing, too, is like Hassan, who lives out here in L.A. is a weightlifting bro like me. We'll see who can deadlift more. Probably him.

I think I can bench more. But, you know, he's a he's a leftist. And so he is good in these spaces. But Alyssa Slotkin is never going to go on there and talk about Israel, not that she needs to, but like some, like even Stavvy, like he's more of a Bernie bro than establishment Democrat. At the same time, he's a really good and funny messenger

against Donald Trump, but he also hosted a podcast called Come Town. So it's hard for the straight laced nerds who staff democratic campaigns and don't play fantasy football to like get their bosses into these spaces. Well, it's a slotkin. We'll see you on come town. Okay.

This is like so long. Everyone's going to freak out when they see the length, but me and Peter, maybe they haven't got to hang out. We used to live in the same state. We don't get to hang out. So this is where we're hanging out. I have three more topics. We have a maximum of four minutes on each.

Maximum of four minutes on each. Maximum four minutes. Okay. Behave. I want you to listen to, I told you I had to do dystopia. I was flipping through tech talk and Gary Vee, who's somebody you'd like to, uh, you like to comment on who's a tech influencer was commenting on the future of AI. And I was like, I need Peter to listen to this. And so I'm surprising you with it.

Let's, I need Scott Conroy here to listen to this with us. Let's listen. predictions that your grandkids will marry an AI human. What's your conviction level on that? 100%. They're gonna marry an AI. That your grandchild is going to marry an AI human. So this is what we've been talking about. I think people are gonna have relationships fully AI boyfriend about. I think people are going to have relationships, fully AI boyfriend, girlfriends. I think it's going to be indistinguishable. I believe a robot that is fully AI will marry a human and vice versa for real in your lifetime at scale.

And when you say an AI, does that mean like a physical body of a robot? Yes. So you're saying that the bodies will get so good that it will look like you and like I could I don't know if you know this but people have jack does then the physical part happens. So what is this going to do to society if we're all just like I've been thinking about that a lot which is like does a couple introduce just like real couples introduce swinging and another partner now, is it even better to introduce an AI robot that may help whatever or emotional things are going on in that relationship

to become an offsetting contributor to a matter? One could argue, this was gonna be my second one. That AI will be strong. This isn't enough, Jason, enough. Are you sure you wanna have a child, Peter? This is what is happening. This is the future. So I don't-

Your child's child will marry an AI. So Gary's, I don't agree with him that this will happen at scale, but you can obviously see some nerd, like, or some person who's online a lot. We already see this. There's a show on Hulu that FX did called Social Studies that I'm watching,

and I should not be watching it before having a daughter. And so window into the lives of teenagers in Los Angeles and their digital lives. Like we are already in relationships with robots and the younger generation is too. And there are apps that will create like AI girlfriends and boyfriends based on AI like that movie Her that exists right now. It exists. People are in relationships. People have written about this. If you make that into some kind of anthropomorphic figure,

I can see a lonely person like doing that. Marrying, I don't know if our states are gonna be passing laws allowing that. I mean, Gary's wrong about marriage. It's gonna be in the eye of the beholder, I think. By the way, I think he will say anything and do anything. He's the hustle bro, king, Gary. But like, it's not out of the realm of possibility in our lifetime. Now, this is the anti-human movement. I played that because it was funny. I saw another clip.

So, for some reason, the Chinese think I'm interested in AI futurism. I guess I kind of am, which is why the Chinese think that because they know me. But like Sam Altman was doing a thing about how the the 18 year Olds are using a chat GBT not at all like you and me like it's not like a Google substitute They're using it like as a life coach. Yeah, and like this so the AI is just like they're asking me. Hey, what should I do today? Which I like I have this problem with my girlfriend. What do you think? I have this like this is deeply alarming to me humans should go meet other humans Like this is deeply alarming to me. Humans should go meet other humans.

And I find, they should find friends to confide in. And I'm really concerned about this. Okay. Will- Yeah. So, like, I know we have two minutes left here, but like Snap, we have my AI, which is a chat box. Yeah, I created one for myself. Yeah.

Yeah. And so like, you can get what concerts are in New Orleans right now. What's a good gift idea for my friend. That's Google though. That's Google. That's a Google replacement. Kind of, yes. But it doesn't have, like we have controls where it's not going to have a relationship. I know, I just feel like the way that you're conceiving that is like it's a replacement for a search. Like give me a piece of information, help me find something.

That is different than like I'm feeling sad today. Uh, will you be there for me? And Sam Altman and Mark Zuckerberg want that world where you have fake friends that they can monetize because they put some like brand logo on their girl, their girlfriends, like digital shirt. It's gross. It's very concerning. It's an anti-human movement and I'm very annoyed about it. Okay.

Final two items is so important. If anybody made it to this, they're about to get the treat of a lifetime. I think you should quit both your jobs and go full-time as an RFK impersonator because your RFK impersonation is the best on the marketplace. And I just want you to give people a little taste. We're going to do it. I want a straight minute. We'll put it up on TikTok.

And if it goes as viral as I think it will, you might have a new career. Let's see. I got my collection of buttons back here. I'll put on my Bobby. This is not RFK Junior. Bobby Senior. Yeah. Okay. Bobby, what's been happening today in Venice? Well, Tam, I went to the Gold's gym and because I hurt my shoulders, shoulder pressing years ago, I injected myself with raw milk and, uh, uh, beehive, uh, dust that I collected with space age vacuum that I imported from Malaysia. A friend of mine who was an old bear hunter friend recommended, and I was at the gold's

gym squatting, uh, and you know, I, I gotta get back to these. He actually shouldn't be talking to you. Uh DC. I actually shouldn't be talking to you. Tim. You shouldn't be talking to me. Are you going to be in trouble with Mr. Trump? Was that good? Was that good or bad? That was really quite good.

The beehive pollen. I also got a rocky button back here. I got a majority for a silent Agnew button. I got lots of vintage pins. I don't know. Agnew was kind of the... What's the fucking phrase? The canary in the coal mine. Agnew is a little bit of a canary in the coal mine.

All right, final thing. It's not a question for you. You're done. Have I given you my new parent advice? You're going to be a parent any day now. I'm shocked you haven't. I haven't, right? There are three things, four things maybe. They're all practical. Number one, on that bookshelf, do you have any books back there about how to parent

or like what to expect by week six? Yeah, we got a lot of that. We got lots of that. Throw them on the fucking trash. They're horrible. You are a human with good EQ. You will know what your child wants unless they have a very serious problem, then you should get a book. But if it's a child with just a regular crying a lot or whatever, we underfed our child for like the first three days of her life because I was reading some book that's like, you get this many ounces of milk a day is what a kid wants. I asked the nurse, I was like, why is she crying so much? And the nurse is like, well, she's hungry still. I'm like, oh, it's like, if the child is crying, they're hungry. And so you should feed them. That's pretty simple.

You don't need a book for that. And so the book actually is harmful. Throw the book away. Throw the books away. Don't read them. Number two, do not purchase, if you have already, do not purchase any more blankets. Everyone sends you blankets. I have no idea why.

It's the favorite gift everyone sends. If you're a gift giver, and I have a friend having a first child, don't send them a blanket because we ended up, you know, with so many, I still have them. I use them now to like clean up spills around the house, children's blankets. Number three, the thing that nobody tells you is from like age three months to like 10 months, it is an amazing time to travel with a baby. Nobody tells you this. Yeah, yeah, I remember. Nobody tells you this. Yeah, yeah, I remember.

Nobody tells you this, but it's like the baby sleeps all the time. If they're crying, you can feed them. You can keep them up late at night because they have the weird hours, right? So you can go out to a late dinner with the baby and just put it in the little bassinet next to you at the resort that you're at or at the city in New York. And we went on some vacations and Toulouse was out in New Orleans. We went to Slow with the... Yeah, she'd come out to the bar late at night.

Around 10 months or 11 months through like two years, it's very challenging because the kid cries on the plane and you can't, it's hard to calm them down because they don't have words yet. You know, the period between baby and giving them an iPad is very challenging to fly. So you should maximize your trips in that first year. What I noticed from a lot of new parents is they're like, okay, I'm getting my fucking sea legs. And we do our first trip nine months in and it's like, no, wrong. Immediately go on vacations. Start planning your vacations now.

I had a fourth piece of advice, but I forget what it is. Love that child, I guess, is that just love that fucking little girl. That's all. Just love her. She'll be great. You're going to be a great dad. Peter, do you have anything else for me? Thank you. Thank you. I'll tell Katie, make sure she listens to this too. We'll bump you up to number 33 in the, in the YouTube rankings. Yeah, we'll take the baby to what's see here. Arkansas LSU November 15th, maybe Texas. November 15th. That sounds great. We'll see you down here. Go tigers, go nuggets.

That's Peter Hanby. Check out his podcast on puckuck or his Snapchat show on Snapchat and everybody else. We'll be back here Monday. It'll be Bill Kristol. It'll be a shorter show, but there'll be more references to Greek and Roman philosophers. So you'll enjoy that. We'll see you all then. Peace. Later. Don't need a hero anyway, although I really like your style Don't need a hero anyway, even though you changed my mind Cause I needed you yesterday, but again you were unkind Don't need a hero anyway, even though you changed my mind Please, don't give up on love

Cause my love is real The silver lining for What we'll be, we'll be And we make it real, you know Real Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh were around Don't need an ego maniac, get my life to drive me wild I have to run away from that, no mercy that lets drown Now you see that I'm on my way, wanna drag me down oh why

Don't need an ego anyway, don't need an ego anyway I know you ain't come this far Just to go back to where you came from We, don't give up, no Cause God's love is real The silver lining falls What we'll be, we'll be What we'll be, we'll be And we may feel alone So please, don't give up on no one

Cause God's love is free the silver lining for all What we will be, we'll be And we may feel alone We will be The Bulldog Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.