The Bulwark Podcast - S.E. Cupp: A Sucker and a Loser

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

Kamala laid trap after trap during the debate, and because he's so impulsive, Trump walked into every single one. And while he seethed, she was the normal and sane one—who came so prepared she was name-dropping missiles and tanks. It was a good night. S.E. Cupp joins Tim Miller, who also shares his scoops from the spin room. show notes: S.E.'s show, "Battleground"

The President of the United States, Ukraine, and NATO Understand why the European allies and our NATO allies are so thankful that you are no longer president and that we understand the importance of the greatest military alliance the world has ever known, which is NATO, and what we have done to preserve the ability of Zelensky and the Ukrainians to fight for their independence. Otherwise, Putin would be sitting in Kiev with his eyes on the rest of Europe, starting with Poland. And why don't you tell the 800,000 Polish Americans right here in Pennsylvania how quickly you would give up for the sake of favor and what you think is a friendship with what is known to be a dictator who would eat you for lunch.

Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller and speaking of getting eaten for lunch, how about that last night? Donald Trump, boy, he was on the menu, so to speak, for Kamala Harris. And I'm delighted to be here today with my old pal, S.E. Cupp, CNN contributor, Battleground America series. She's doing for Fox stations across the country. And the last time we were together, boy, the vibes are very different. How are you doing, S.E.? Very different vibes. I'm good. How are you? I couldn't be better i was living the dream last night i was living the dream last night in the spin room

just going up to all my old friends asking them how they're doing asking them if they're in their feefies trying to make them spin pretending like i was a journalist next to all the other journalists to ask them to give me their best spin right Right. Oh, boy. It was enjoyable. It's not about me, though. It's about the country. It's about Kamala Harris. So, let's just kind of do this conversation style. Like, we're a couple pals having coffee, just enjoying ourselves.

Aren't we? That's what we're doing. Aren't we just a couple pals having coffee? Exactly. Like, we're just hanging out at the coffee shop, chatting about what happened last night. We're both in Philly, right? We are both in Philly. We should have done this together. It's like we're just hanging out at the coffee shop chatting about what happened last night so we're both in philly right we are both in philly we should have done this together hanging out yeah virtually this is gen z counts this as being together actually what uh so what'd you think what was your top

line give it to me i feel like kamala harris must be feeling what putin and Kim Jong-un feel, which is like, I can't believe this guy fell for it. Like, I can't believe how easily manipulated this guy was. She laid out trap after trap after trap. These weren't like well-concealed traps. These were pretty obvious traps. And he walked into every single one, like giddily, giddily. I mean, she's a prosecutor, but she's not Houdini. She didn't like, there was no magic.

She laid a trap. He walked right into it, like laughing and screaming and like happily. I think even for me, having covered him so long, somewhat surprising to see just how easily manipulated he was by her. And I think if you're a swing state voter who is undecided and you don't really love either of these people, you just watch that thinking, man, he's a sucker. What a sucker. And a loser, you might say. What a sucker and a loser. The bait element of this, because I was skeptical because they said this before the Biden debate, right? That he was going to try to bait him. And they were saying that those leaks were coming out of prep. And I was like, is that really true? Is that just a head game? I could kind of see her

focusing on her own message or her own story. Is she really going to do it? And then it's this immigration section. The whole debate was lost was lost i mean he didn't win a single point in any part of the whole debate but like the key segment of the debate was where you go from immigration into abortion right in the immigration section this topic that should be very friendly for him comes up and uh the question goes to her first and she gives her answer which is which is a fair substantive answer about how Donald Trump killed that bill. It aligns a little bit with what happened before that.

But, you know, it was a fair point and what she wants to do going forward. And then she ends it with like a total non-sequitur about his crowd size. She's still kind of nervous. That's what I mean. These are not carefully planted like she she doesn't even know he executed that well like as the debate goes on she gets better

and better at this but it's kind of like a rambling mess a little bit about how his crowds you know what it reminded me of you know in zoolander yeah right they've got a subliminal like a song that they just play to like trick Derek Zoolander into going after the prime minister of Malaysia. It's not careful. It's not clever. It's literally Pavlovian. It's like, she does a policy thing and then she'd be like crowd size and he goes nuts. He becomes, you know, Zoolander. It was so, it would be funny if the consequences weren't so high, but like I said, these were obvious traps and anyone with any self-control or foresight about what was trying to happen here could easily, easily have avoided them, but he has no self-control.

Correct. So yeah, Doreen Wood should be the best part for him. Yeah, the best part, him yeah the best part right you know he goes off on defending his crowd so people don't even show up to her rallies what are you what are you talking about and then he's spiraling so much that takes him into the dog section right so it's in the question where she is triggering him over his you know how the people leave they get bored by him but then he's like and then it's in Springfield and people are eating dogs. They're eating cats. They're eating pets of all kinds.

All the pets are getting eaten by these immigrants in Ohio. That's like, if you are not somebody that is so online, like, you know, if you are not just super attuned to mega media or to Twitter or whatever, regular viewers are like, you know, I'm like, think about my father. Like, what the fuck is he talking about?

Who's eating dogs? Yeah. And then David Muir has to correct him and be like, well, actually, it's not true. The city manager says it's not true. There was one alleged cat incident 170 miles away. And it wasn't even an immigrant who allegedly had skinned a cat and it was and then trump's like but i heard about it on tv right yours like that's that's not right and this is we have facts here and i mean and it just the thing spirals from there but my question

to you is do you think his campaign said don't bring up the dogs and cats? Don't do it. And he couldn't help himself? Or do you think they planned, like, you can bring up the dogs and cats. Bring up the dogs and cats, but wait for the right time to bring up the dogs and cats because the dogs and cats things will scare people. What do you think happened? Did he go off page there,

or did he do it, but just sort of ham-fistedly? I think he did it ham-fistedly, but here's what I really think about the prep. And've been in some prep sessions so we can we both can talk about this he didn't prep right they weren't joking right like they kind of prepped you know mark caputo my colleague has reported on this i was talking to him this morning and it's like they kind of prepped you know they're like gates is in prep and that it's like was he really like there were times where gates wasn't really there and then he was i guess tulsi gabbard and trump doesn't like to get told things.

He doesn't like. And the cat thing is new. It's fresh in his mind. He's this person. It's like the last thing that someone said to him. He'll blurt. So that was going around the day before. Because J.D. Vance actually laid this trap for him.

This shouldn't have even come up. But J.D. just tweeting the day before about how this is his home state of Ohio, and there's this epidemic of Haitian migrant cat eating. And so, but I just think if you look at that answer, and then you get to the abortion answer, the contrast on the abortion answer, it's like Trump's whining this morning on Fox, he's like, Kamala knew the questions. It's like, no, Kamala knew the topics. Kamala prepped. And so you get to the abortion section, and you have Trump's answer, which we can't even play the audio off because it's just gobbledygook.

It's like, I love the Supreme Court and it was great, but it also isn't that good. And I care about the exceptions and also the states. And it's like he didn't even prep the answer and it's hard as question. And then you get to Kamala's answer. I want to play one bit from that. And one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree. The government and Donald Trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body. I have talked with women around our country. You want to talk about this is what people wanted? Pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to

term, suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail, and she's bleeding out in a car in the parking lot? She didn't want that? Her husband didn't want that? A 12 or 13 year old survivor of incest? Being forced to carry a pregnancy to term? They don't want that. And I pledge to you, when Congress passes a bill to put back in

place the protections of Roe v. Wade as president of the United States, I will proudly sign it into law. That answer was prepped. That was a heat-seeking missile aimed at pro-life swing voters that don't like Donald Trump, or people that were for some types of restriction. Weapons grade. It was a weapons grade answer, and she had clearly planned it. But what was so great about it was, A, she delivered those lines very emotionally and passionately. So, I think, connected with real people. And she said everything short of, and you did this. What she was saying was, we don't want this.

Women don't want this. You know, girls who've been raped, they don't want this. And you did this. She looked at him as she sort of laid out the consequences of that Supreme Court decision. And she tied it directly to him. And we know this puts him in a pretzel because he loves to take credit for it, but he's also trying to distance himself.

So he had nothing. He had nothing for that, I think, very surgical and creatively crafted answer that did all the things, checked all the boxes, emotional, personal, passionate, political, policy, and she made it about him. It was great. You're looking at him. Looking at him.

If you're a Trump hater and she says that line of like, the government shouldn't be telling these women what to do, and certainly Donald Trump shouldn't be telling them. And you're just like, just the subtext, she doesn't have to be like the grab him by the pussy guy and the E.G. and Carol. That's all right there. Not this man is not going to tell you what to do only a woman could deliver it like that only a woman could deliver like that anyone could say it about him of course but coming from a woman

i thought it was probably the moment of the night and that's obviously a winning issue for her so i don't think she had to work that hard at landing the plane, but it was a really good landing. And he didn't take the moments that would have been good for him. He got so distracted that he didn't make the most of the, the issues that inure to his benefit. And that was his big mistake. So this all ties the prep with the body language.

So let's talk about this, because I had Simone on yesterday, and she was talking about how, for a woman in Canada, particularly a woman of color, going against Trump, and what we saw in the first debate, where the body language was so bad for Biden, you know, it was just like, for a variety of reasons, he's a TV guy. The prep is twofold. I didn't really prep, maybe I should have, prep Jeb's facial reactions. You know, we didn't like work on that, really. You know, it was substance, it was style.

You could tell that she was both prepped on the substance and on the baiting. Just also in the way that she carried herself. It begins from the moment of walking up to shake his hand, all the way through how she looked and how he didn't look at her. So talk about that. And her faces while he was speaking were careful. Look, I'm a woman of many faces, lots of times cannot control what happens right here. And there's plenty of evidence of that on TV. I know about that. Yeah, you do. You do. But we also know how to make an effective face that says everything.

And I think she did intentionally think about how to look when he said things that were meant to bait her. She wasn't going to fall for the bait, but her response to the bait was going to be these faces. And her faces were both puzzled, amused sometimes, amused, almost like a grandma or an auntie looking sort of askew at someone saying something stupid. Just this is stupid, but like, oh, poor thing. They were careful. because we remember some debate moments like Al Gore, whose reactions were distracting throughout a debate, whether he was humping or huffing and puffing. They weren't distracting.

They were meant to, I think, signal to everyone, do you hear what I'm hearing? This is fucking crazy shit. This is crazy. And if you're a normal person like me, you are looking at this thinking, what? I think that's what she was channeling like don't take this like seriously it is not serious it is absurd and my face will reflect how absurd it is and it was also show dominance over him right like I'm not scared of you I walked straight up I shaked his hand I looked him in the eye I went back to my podium when you talk I, I'm going to look at you. And sometimes make some bemused faces. When she was talking, he couldn't look at us.

Straight ahead. He was seething. His body language is hunched, shoulders. His face paint was multicolored for some reason last night. It was dripping a little bit. And it was just coming in different, splotchy in his mouth. The thing that I just could not get over is he

would not look at her. In the postgame, you might have heard me ask him about that. Let's listen. Now she wants to do another one because she got beaten tonight, but I don't know. Why wouldn't you look at her? The polls are indicating that we've got 90 60 72 71 and 89 where are you getting these numbers from where are you getting these numbers from i love that i was live on fox going why would you look

at her why would you look at her? Why would you look at her? The fact that he's in the spin room at the end is a sign of just total failure and delusion. They had nothing. This is the other thing. You've been supporting Canada's bad debate nights. I've worked for Canada's bad debate nights.

There's something you grab onto. You're like, oh, we had a good moment on this. We won on points. They had nothing. He was out there just rambling and just complaining about the moderators. Am I too coconut pilled right now? Am I too ebullient? What?

No, I mean, they're going to blame the moderators. They're going to blame the media. Like you said, they're going to suggest she got the questions or something. It was rigged. They'll do that. And that might work with his base. It absolutely will not work with the undecided swing state voters who are going to decide this election. They've told us over and over again. Here at Battleground, we pull them all the time. In the swing states, they say they are not here for the distractions. They are not here for the personal attacks.

They actually have substantive problems and questions. They want answers. So I don't think any of that works with the people that he needs. That was his job last night, to speak to undecided swing state voters. And on the economy and immigration, he has the issues that benefit him, but he couldn't do it. And she had the same job too, to speak to those voters. And I thought, interestingly, if you take Trump out of it, her policy answers, I think we're speaking to moderates and undecideds and swing state voters. She wasn't playing to the base. She knows what the game last night was about. She's got the base. She's brought most of the base back after Biden lost a lot lot of the base she needs those swing

state voters that's why she was saying i'm not banning fracking i'm not gonna do this i'm gonna look like the normal sane candidate here well i'll allow him to look crazy and it worked it worked perfectly she repeats we're gonna have the most lethal military yeah the one time when she was the most adamant about getting in another response was when she was like no that's not true about i'm not going to ban fracking i'm not going to defund the police i forget the third thing that he said was like she was adamant like trying to get time from the to the moderators to to just be crystal clear about the pivot to the center right and you know on the policies so like what are the policies she's talking about opportunity economy building houses you know it's this broad base there's some popular

stuff in there too like some some free money it's parts in there but it was mostly middle of the road stuff he was so bad on the key points that it's actually kind of secondary how bad he was on the typical Trumpy things. For example, they finally get to January 6th like an hour into the week. And let's play one clip from it that really stood out to me when he was asked about January 6th. Is there anything you regret about what you did on that day? You just said a thing that isn't covered peacefully and patriotically. I said during my speech, not later on. Peace peacefully and patriotically. I said during my speech, not later on, peacefully and patriotically. And nobody on the other side was killed. Ashley Babbitt was shot by an out of

control police officer that should have never, ever shot her. It's a disgrace. But we didn't do this group of people that have been treated so badly. Press 15 seconds back if you guys missed that. Nobody on the other side was killed. We didn't. Like police. Yeah, we didn't. And then he catches himself saying we.

We didn't. So it's like the rioters are we. The other side is the police getting attacked. That's an astonishingly horrific answer. It is. And if there were a debate just about that, what you would have gone in and said in response was, how can you say, I told them to go in peacefully and patriotically. And then when they didn't, you want to pardon them. That's contradictory. Either you didn't tell them to go in violently, and so you're mad that they did, because they clearly did, or you wanted them to go in violently,

and so now you want to pardon them. You can't have both ways, but this debate didn't get that granular. But he can't answer coherently and consistently on that. It's very similar, very similar to his abortion answers. He's constantly trying to take credit for carving out this part that he thinks works for his base while carving away the part he knows that turns everyone else off, but he gets it mixed up in his head all the time. And he can't help himself for taking credit for the whole thing. And then he has to distance himself and back out like a chunk of it. It's the same game over and over and over again.

It was a terrible answer. I will just say the undecided swing state voters we're talking to about who they're going to vote for. They don't care about January 6th. I know. The bulwark listeners do. Just saying. I'm just saying.

So one thing that you guys might be talking to that I think they might care about is the divisive thing. Yeah. There was only one moment where I was a little bit like, uh-oh, where's she going with this? And it was on the race question. He gets asked about how she turned black or whatever. And he says it like that.

Black. He can't say black. Black. Black. And he gives this horrific answer where he looks so weak and small and he's just kind of like well i don't really care do you care you didn't and then they're like well you brought it up he's like you know he is nothing like you think he at least would have been prepared to be like my whole point is she's a phony uh-huh that's all you had to say she's a phony like he's she's pander and a phony. That's all I was trying to say. It wasn't about race. And then she goes into a lengthy, again,

prepared response that goes back to the apartment discrimination against blacks, the Central Park Five, birtherism. And that's separate from her, what she's been doing. She hasn't been talking about race that much. But then she

kind of ties it together by just being like that's not what the american people want right they don't want you know it wasn't like a woe is me he's so racist thing it was like a stop fucking doing this stop dividing us and so i do wonder like how do you think that landed with the types of voters you're talking to well we know um going back 40 and 50 years we've talked to black voters in swing states who are undecided. They don't care. Yeah. They don't care about Central Park Five. It's not relevant to their life today.

I'm not saying they don't care ecumenically. Yeah, sure, sure, sure, of course. But in terms of who they're voting for, it's just not relevant. So it was good that she got through that and then tied it back to now and this bigger picture of his divisiveness. Because they do care about that. They don't, they're not here for the anger, the grievance, the complaining, the rigged election, the backwards looking. They're not here for that. They don't want it anymore.

But I wouldn't spend too much time walking back to the bir birtherism you know it's just not it's not what's bothering these voters right now but she does pivot into like the turning the page thing which she which she hit pretty well again this is another just total failure just like basic debate prep for him is you go in and immediately and try to tie her to biden easy to do they are she is still the vice president exactly and he doesn't do it. And then finally, towards the very end, she's like, sorry, I don't know if you noticed, but I'm not Joe Biden. And because it's so late in the debate, it ends up being kind of like a winning line, right? Like that's a losing line in the first seven minutes where it's like a good line. But then if you keep repeating it, it's like,

you might think you're not Joe Biden, but you guys did this and you guys did that. But he couldn't do that. And I think that that sort of this the racist stuff kind of gets wrapped up into this like people are sick of these old fucking guys and they're sick of the way you know like is that is there a potential strand there for her in kind of this the culture war topic that she's just trying to move people past it. Yeah. I mean, God, there were so many things he could have done. Yeah. Right.

Tying her to Biden, catching her on her flip flops. That's tough to do. Cause he's also flip flop, but, but he could still go after it and he could go where, where media frankly hasn't gone. Like why has no one asked her?

She and walls have not been forced to answer a question. For example, in Minnesota, Tim Walz, there are no weak restrictions on abortion. That is wildly unpopular. Wherever you stand on that issue, it is outside the mainstream of where a majority of Americans are. Is that your policy, Kamala Harris? Do you want America to look more like Minnesota, Kamala Harris? I mean, these are things he could have not only tied her to Biden, but tied her to walls and made her answer for some of this. Why'd you pick him? He's super extreme. I mean, he could have done all kinds of things that made this not just about this one woman and his issues with her. But he didn't because he didn't practice.

California, broadly, the failures of California, the crime, and the cost of living. I'm not here to give coaching advice to Donald Trump, but there are a million things you could do. Anyone could have looked at the dynamic here, the issues at play, the issues that matter to Americans, and crafted out a clear course of action for him that really would have presented a challenge for Kamala Harris. They didn't do any of that. He didn't prep it or he forgot about it or he couldn't control where he took it. So for her, I think she allows him to do the culture

war stuff because it makes him look crazy. I don't think she really even has to dabble in it that much because he's gonna do it for her and he's gonna he's gonna lose it and win it for her i mean he's in like this hermetically sealed world of crazy it isn't just a dog thing he's like victor orban victor orban they call him a strong man it's like la Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity debunked the Charlottesville hoax. And he's name-dropping these random... He's very deep in his own navel and all this kind of cultural stuff and all the story of Trump and the Game of Thrones of it all. Most people just don't care about it.

Well, I'm wondering... And listen, let's say it again. This race is tight. I expect it will remain tight. I don't think he lost the election because of this debate. But I read yesterday or Monday, too, that Republicans are worried he is not investing. The campaign is not investing enough in swing state voter turnout. Because of the fraud.

They're focused on the lawyers and the fraud. Literally, that's why. 100%. on the lawyers and the fraud literally that's why yeah 100 they pulled out of this at the rnc and directed their their efforts money resources to voter fraud but turning the vote out has never been his strong suit it's never been interesting to him remember in midterms when he was president he would go out and say these midterms aren't as important as my elections. Well, they are to every down-ballot Republican, right? He doesn't get it.

He doesn't care. He doesn't care about widening the tent and bringing in new voters, which he will need. I don't know if Chris Lasavita and Susie Wiles care. They're smart. I'm sure they do. But I'm just wondering if everyone around him said he doesn't care and we're never going to get him to care enough to control himself, to speak to these undecided swing state voters the way they want to be spoken to. So just forget it. Let's just

forget it and work on turning out everyone we already have and their persuadable friends. Because that's what it's sounding more and more like he's doing so just like thinking about that and the biggest picture element of this you're spending time with these with the with the voters that matter this was a tight race going in you know i just did a sports talk thing right before this you know and like the first question for like non-politicos is like does is are there any undecideds out there like does this even even matter is this just a show for you political guys? And that's like a legit question, right?

Like, I am of the view that, yeah, no, that matters. Like, there's a significant, it's small, but a significant number of people that are gettable. But you're out there talking to these people. Like, what did you think? Like, what extent does it matter? Well, just by the numbers, undecideds represent about 18% of American registered voters. That's not a small number. Even if you don't believe all of them.

Sure. Honestly, even if you only believe half of them. Right. Even if 9% is very significant. Electorally significant. In Pennsylvania, it's about 3%. That's a lot of voters. And as we know, Pennsylvania's big prize, 19 electoral votes.

The undecideds, 3%. Yeah, the undecideds in Pennsylvania represent 3% of registered voters, okay? So that's a lot of voters. We go out in the streets in Wisconsin and North Carolina and Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan. We go out into the streets. We meet these voters. We've done focus groups with these voters. They're saying we're undecided because we don't like either of these people.

And we know Kamala Harris a little less. We're waiting to see more. And a lot of them pegged their sort of decision deadline to the debate last night. They thought the debate last night was going to make their decision. If we believe that and we extrapolate that that's how a lot of undecided voters were going into this night last night, that this was going to help them decide. I think that's very bad news for Donald Trump. It's very good news for Kamala Harris. Now there's like two months left. Lots could happen. But if we're just taking them at their word and what they're telling us, and we're going to go out and talk to more of them post debate, certainly, so we'll know more, then this is significant and the sports guys,

you know, should handicap this, knowing that that is significant. Just looking just at the comma of it, if that was really a decision point, as much as I talk about Trump's crazy. To me, like expectations beating, like by a wide margin. I thought she was really nervous. Let's just be honest. Like she does the word salad stuff sometimes herself, like these circular sentences where you can tell she doesn't know what she's going to say kind of. And she's like blabbing. She didn't do a lot of that.

There wasn't visible. They're a little bit of a, the first eight minutes maybe, but like once she got going, there was not visible nerves. And then to me also on the foreign policy stuff, people don't vote on foreign policy, but they wanted her to pass this bar of believability.

And she was like, fucking Ukraine, Munich Security Conference, Abrams tanks. I mean, she's like dropping names of missiles and tanks. You know what I mean? And I'm like, oh, she was – so I think that she felt like that she passed that bar for those folks. But what do you think? Yeah, I think the bar – I wouldn't say the bar was low for her, but she definitely beat it. Wherever it was, she beat it.

Because she does do word salad. She can also get, I'll remind you of the Lester Holt interview, testy and defensive. Yeah. And almost like, I'm too good to answer this question. Or why are you even asking this question about the border? Dismissive. Dismissive condescending.

I didn't see any of that. I think whoever's around her, and we probably know the folks, gave her very specific good advice. And maybe this even came in, you know, inherently from her, just knowing what she needed to do, which was don't word salad. Don't be dismissive of issues that matter to voters. Like don't go out and say there's no crime. Don't go out and say the economy is great. Don't do that. And try not to get emotionally rattled by Trump. She did none of those things.

And like we said earlier, she did policy. She did substance. I would have liked a little more, but that's always me. She did the foreign policy check. She did. And then, like we said, and then she just dropped this little like bait, like, um, crowd size and, and just let him go off on it. Like, right. She'd end the policy thing with like your inheritance.

Like, are we talking about the size of his inheritance? We didn't all inherit a billion dollars. Like kind of out of nowhere. But he's so dumb and so impulsive that, man, he was just like a dog with a... I got the bone. Let's go with it. I couldn't believe how

easy it was. Truly, truly how easy it was to manipulate him. Great prep. Pluff was in there. The Obama guys they brought in. Karen Dunn, we should mention. Obviously, all the credit goes to Kamala. But this was a professionally executed debate. Yes, it was.

And impressive. And it's a lot. And it looks hard, but I promise you all, it's harder than it looks. I've been in those rooms. All right, last time. Yes, okay. Tay-Tay. Say it again?

Tay-Tay. Taylor Swift. Yeah. Last night, she posts on Instagram endorsing Kamala. Okay. Tay-Tay. Say it again? Tay-Tay. Taylor Swift. Yeah. Last night she posts on Instagram endorsing Kamala. Yeah. I noticed one quick notice I should also mention. Caitlin Clark gave that a like. Saw a Caitlin Clark like.

There's a lot of wish casting out there in Coke and Manga World that Caitlin's one of them. I don't really see it. Okay. Does it matter? Is it just fun? No. It doesn't matter.

Not even one bit. Celebrity endorsements don't matter. Like, never. And she has endorsed before. She's done it No. It doesn't matter. Celebrity endorsements don't matter. Like, never. And she has endorsed before. She's done it before. It didn't matter. No, and listen, all the caveats. Everything matters.

This election's crazy. This election's atypical. This election's different. It's unprecedented. Anything could happen. Every vote counts. All the things. But no.

No. Celebrity endorsements just generally don't move people. Okay, last, last. Is God good enough for us to get another one of these? Will Trump do it? He's saying this morning he doesn't think he wants to. Again, it's really hard for him to take that bait too. And after this, he will need another event.

He will need another inflection point to try and, I think, regain some momentum. A debate is kind of conceivably the only manufactured thing you could do to create that opportunity but he'd have to be a completely different person to help himself in the next debate and i don't know that he can be that so does he not even show does he show does he do it i don't know i don't know i don't know either i would have said yes he does do it but he looked like a beaten puppy this morning on Fox and News. He did. He did. Fox and Friends. I don't know. He might just take the L and be like, it was rigged. so yes uh things have changed um and uh you know we are now in the coconut grove and i'm happy to have you back uh thank you for doing this that's se cup stick around i got a few more things for y'all on the other side and isn't se great you just know she's giving you real talk too if you don't if you don't

believe she's giving real talk go back and listen to our last time together when things were looking a little different guys so we have like wall-to-wall content for you um just want to make sure you weren't missing anything over on, there was a live stream last night. We've pushed it up. There's a post-game analysis that I popped onto before I went over to the spin room. I want to talk to you about the spin room real quick. And then also it's Wednesday, so we've got the next level,

which we're going to be going real long on and focusing on the debate, of course, but also on where we're kind of going from here and forward-looking campaign stuff. The spin room, guys, I wrote for the Bulwark this morning, which you should go check out at thebulwark.com, about inside Trump's spin room from hell. And I got to tell you, I was having the time of my life, people. Nobody except Doug Emhoff was having more fun than me last night. Let me tell you that. I know, I left the Bulwark live stream. And immediately

upon returning before I even get into the spin room outside the magnetometers, there's only two people standing out there, Lindsey Graham, and his flack. And for those who've read my book or been longtime podcast listeners, you know that me and Lindsey do each other pretty well. I mean, Lindsey was a big gem supporter. we were on the road together a lot he used to call me at night we get drunk together a couple times i know y'all are thinking none don't get don't get the bad thoughts out of your head all right nothing like that you know no signs of that there's plenty of bad lindsey graham things to talk about without you going there i know where your head was listener so he recognized me immediately of course and i just went in out of like and i'm

just like all right this is your moment after this night we are on the same page back in 2016 we used to talk about how awful he was let's go you're welcome the water's warm come on back come on the board podcast we can talk about your conversion back and um he he got hot immediately hot red-faced shame on you you should be ashamed he's saying to me i should be i should be ashamed who should be ashamed here anyway it goes it goes on and on going around and around all things you'd expect him talking about how great the trump years were minus 2020 me talking about how he was running for his life like a scared little baby from the donald trump supporters in january 6th and so maybe it didn't end as well as he remembers. And then finally, because he can't help himself,

he's a politician. Even at the end of a pretty heated exchange, he wanted to, he wanted to win me over, or he wanted to demonstrate we're still pals or wanted to demonstrate, you know, we could still ride in the golf cart together if the winds of politics ever change. And so he gives me a fist bump and he leans in and he's like, man, he goes, I'll say this. He was unprepared and that debate team should be fired. It was a disaster. I was like, oh, thanks for that, Lindsey. Turned around, fired that bad boy off on Twitter.

And the whole world knows that even Lindsey Graham acknowledged that it was a loser last night. That was joyful. There were more fun exchanges like that that I'll be talking about on the next level. So go and check out that feed if you haven't on whatever your podcast app is of choice. Today, life is good. More work left to do. Going to be a close election. But man, that was a beaten puppy last night. As my friend Michael Steele said on MSNBC After Dark, he got a close election. But man, that was a beating puppy last night.

As my friend Michael Steele said on MSNBC After Dark, he got a spanking. He got a whooping last night. And we got to take these little moments of joy when we can. So enjoy it. We'll be back tomorrow. I'll be coming at you from D.C. tomorrow because there's a hurricane in New Orleans so I can't go home. Everything should

be good. We're prepared. Sending good vibes to the hubs and kiddo. I'll be FaceTiming with them, checking in, and we'll be with you on a podcast from DC tomorrow. We'll see y'all then. It's coconut time. Peace. I am a loner, and I pay my dues and I don't depend on nothing No I am a loner, all confused, waiting for the rainy day While I spend my time walking in the sunshine Swinging on my palm tree Cause I love coconuts

I'm drinking coconut kiss And you don't get to know me Oh you don't get to know me Swinging on my palm tree Cause I love coconuts I'm drinking coconut kiss And you don't get to know me No, you don't get to know me No, no, you don't get to know me

Hey, you're waiting for the blow, for the big fat blow When mama's gonna get away, let me go I like to watch the world The world is looking good today. It's almost like I'm sleeping, I pull my head back to the sun. It's almost like I'm sleeping. I pull my head back to the sun. The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.