The Bulwark Podcast - Tom Nichols: Remember the Split Screen

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

On Saturday, Trump would like nothing more than images from Los Angeles of tear gas and balaclava-clad anarchists throwing bottles at Marines to complement video of himself in the stands at his military parade, saluting the troops amid a field of flags. That's part of the reason why he chose LA to federalize the Guard—home to numerous adversaries who willingly take his bait. And while tanks are going to roll through DC, wrecking its streets for the big birthday boy, Israel is going after Iran like it went after Hezbollah. Meanwhile, Kristi Noem handled the Padilla incident like a little fascist, and it only just occurred to Trump how the deportations will affect farms and hotels. Plus, a "Les Miz" correction, a 'Godfather' goof, and fighting words over The Beach Boys v. Lou Reed. Tom Nichols joins Tim Miller for the weekend pod. show notes  Why Trump deployed troops to LA Tom's late night piece on Israel's attack on Iran Tom's "Silence of the Generals" piece The baptism scene in The Godfather Tim's playlist

Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for

effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super-light and ultra-durable Pocket Hose Copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W A T E R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you'll agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from pocket hose.

Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply available at pockethose.com slash terms. Looking for the perfect getaway in the heart of Utah's scenic beauty? Welcome to Mountain Valley RV Resort in the stunning Heber Valley, Utah's highest rated RV destination. Enjoy spacious RV sites, cozy cabins, and tent spots all nestled against the stunning Rocky Mountains and shadow of Mount Tempanogos. Dive into heated pools, relax in hot tubs, or challenge friends on pickleball courts. Families love the playgrounds and sports courts, while adults can unwind in exclusive 21 plus

areas featuring a luxurious clubhouse and spa. With top-notch amenities and breathtaking views, Mountain Valley RV Resort offers an unforgettable experience year-round. Whether you're seeking adventure or relaxation, Mountain Valley RV Resort is your home away from home. Book your stay today at mountainvalleyrv.com. Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller.

Glad to welcome back one of your favorite professors emeritus at the Maple Ward College. He's a staff writer at the Atlantic. His books include The Death of Expertise. It's Tom Nichols. What's up, man? Hey, Tim. Good morning. Good to be with you.

A reminder to listeners to check out our Bullwork Takes podcast feed for Breaking News because we've had another fucking insane 24 hours. Israel executed a devastating attack on Iran. The DHS raids are escalating. Trump's talk going again. So we'll get to all that. But I think we've got to start with the scene at the federal building in LA where DHS security wrestled Democratic Senator Alex Padilla to the ground and handcuffed him after

he tried to interrupt Kristi Noem's press conference with a question. Boy, it was quite the scene, Tom. I've got a lot of thoughts. What's your top take on what we saw yesterday? Well, I used to study Eastern Europe back in the day. I don't want to live there the day, I don't want to live there because this is really, I mean, this is kind of Balkanized politics, rough housing and, you know, fascistic, authoritarian, strong arming. I mean, you don't, I'm sorry, you know, she knows who Padilla is or she should. My colleague David Frum had a great line on social media. He said, what was she supposed to do? She stops that I see my friend Senator senator pedias in the audience. I'll be happy to take your question as soon as i'm done speaking.

But instead everything with this with this bunch is you know a chest thumping show of force and so. It's shameful. Embarrassing as a country frightening that people would you know you know, manhandle a US Senator. I mean, it's a disgrace all around. Pete Yeah, it really is. And look, you know, for some folks, I've been seeing some of our folks in the comment section on the blog yesterday, they were like, well, you know, should a Senator really be doing that? And we can talk about that. I, for one, was happy he was doing it, but I understand there's going to be some people who want more decorum in their political

leaders. I don't know, maybe that's where you land, Tom. But here's the thing. Right. Here's how images work. I don't know what he did because I didn't come into the story until I saw the clip of a bunch of guys wrestling him to the ground. So, you know, this is something, and I'm sure we'll talk about this later, but this is something I keep trying to get across to people about the protests in LA. You don't control those clips. And, you know, when I finally saw, you know,

Padilla going in and yelling, and I'm like, yeah, you know, I used to work for a senator. I wouldn't have let my boss do that. You know, I would have stopped him from doing that. But that doesn't then excuse everything that happened after it. Being a boor is not an excuse for authoritarianism. Yeah, that's right. And this is the area where I can bring some expertise to the table. We bring you in for your Russian and Eastern European expertise. We'll have a lot of that

and your war college expertise. I've disrupted press conferences before. So I know. This was my game back in my rat-fucker days. I've been on the side where I've disrupted press conferences before. So I know, this was my game back in my rat fucker days. I've been on the side where I was the press aide to a candidate having a press conference who was getting disrupted. And I've been on the side of being a disruptor at a press conference and never has anybody put their hands on anybody in any of those situations. And then afterwards, the DHS says, well, they didn't know who he was. He didn't identify himself. Well, he's screaming, I'm Senator Alex Patia at the beginning.

And then, and then the next question is, well, maybe the cops didn't believe him. And there are a couple of issues with that. Number one, it's inside a federal building. So he was escorted in there by an FBI agent and by security. So, you know, there should have been some context clues. You know, it wasn't like, it's not like you're on a street corner where it could be some random kook. And even if you were, it doesn't, he didn't really

present like a random kook. He looked like an older senatorial looking man named Padilla. I guess so context clues come to play here. And also this didn't happen in Maine. Right. I mean, he's in his own state where he was the secretary of state and the U S senator. Yeah.

And where's the ranking member of this committee. And then they push him into the hallway. And again, so then you're like, okay, well, if they're like, oh, well, they just didn't believe him. Then at that point, it's okay. Then maybe it's appropriate to be like, can you show me your ID, sir, or something? Can you prove it? But they didn't do that.

They get him out in the hallway, then they push him under the ground, they handcuff him, they tell his aide to stop filming, even though you're at a press conference. And so, it was far outside the bounds of what we've seen at these kind of press conferences before. And I think it comes also within the broader context. I just played on yesterday's pod before all this happened, that clip of Chris Murphy from a month ago, questioning Kristi Noem and talking about how the DHS is out of control. They're acting lawlessly, they're spending money they don't have, their agents are acting fuggishly with people. So it's a trend. It's not just some one-off security guy that got a little too out of pocket.

And I know people think that I, some of these positions are, you know, oh, I became never Trump. And now I'm, you know, I've adopted all of these kind of hair on fire. I was calling 15 years ago for disestablishing DHS because I was exactly worried about this, that it was an unnecessary panic response to 9-11. It creates its own kind of internal, I mean, how many internal security forces does one democracy need? I'm sorry, but especially when you see, you

know, like clips in front of these federal buildings, it's like there's LA police, there's the, there's ice, there's homeland security, there's secret service. I mean, Jesus Christ, you know, the, the freaking Kremlin doesn't have this much security all the time around it and they need it. But this is, as Bob Dylan once said, you get a lot of knives and forks, you got to cut something. I just went there on Dylan, by the way. It's kind of weird for me. When you've got this many security forces with training that probably isn't the best, with a bunch of guys that are being brought in from various other agencies and given badges,

you're going to have these kind of mini militias inside of these organizations. In theory, the person who should be riding herd on all this is the secretary. Like Hegseth, like others, she is way in over her head, way in out of her league. She has never run anything of any consequential size. This was all supposed to be just TV to own the libs, not actually running a department. And now we see what happens when you hire people that are telegenic ostensibly and tell them to run big departments. It's just shameful. You're right. I mean, ostensibly carrying a lot of, carrying a lot of weight,

carrying a lot of weight there, but you know, but you know, that's why Trump hires people, he sees them on TV, he likes them on TV. And, uh, you know, this, this was just disgraceful. And I think that kind of permissiveness about, uh, force and kind of that, you know, sort of punch first, ask later, forget about IDs. That all comes from the top. We are talking LA, not New York, but it was a good reference anyway. The-

Did I say New York? I'm sorry. No, Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan. Oh, Bob Dylan. The other thing about it that's fascistic and feels like an Eastern European authoritarian country is that, you know, that you have Christie and her new face on TV immediately after talking about how he didn't identify himself, Tricia McLaughlin, our little spokesperson is putting that out, DHS is putting it out.

And it's like the telling us not to believe our lying eyes, right? Like if one thing, if it was just like, you know what, guys, it's a tense moment. My security team was doing their best to protect me. Obviously, we shouldn't have handcuffed a US Senator. I was happy to meet with him afterwards. It still would have been chilling and felt un-American for it to even get to that place, but that would be an appropriate response. You didn't have to even apologize. Just to say, but then to go out the next day and just be like, no, and then Mike Johnson's like, Padilla should be censured. Yeah, well, Mike Johnson.

But what I was going to say, and you know this from, again, from working in the world of politics and optics, the power move would have been to do what you just said, to say, hey, you know, would never have done that, you know, to be gracious, right? To be magnanimous. Of course, I would never want that to happen to Senator Padilla. Instead, they look weak. They run to their favorite outlets and they kind of turtle up and hunker down. And that, in a way, I think that's actually better because it shows that these things happen not out of strength, but out of weakness. I mean,

in a way, I'm kind of glad she didn't apologize or try to explain it because I think it just underlines it and underscores just how incompetent these people really are. This clip I'm about to play is what Kristi Noem was saying right as Padilla is interrupting her. Now, it doesn't appear like Padilla is actually engaging on the merits of what she's saying, but still the coincidence is pretty jarring, I think. So, I just want to listen to Kristi Noem at the press come. Kristi Noem, Press Commentator, The Press An increase our operations in this city. We are not going away. We are staying here to liberate this city from the socialist and the burdensome leadership that this governor and that this mayor

have placed on this country and what they have tried to insert into this city. So I want to say thank you to every... So you can hear Petey in the background there. We're going to liberate the city. We have troops in the streets right now and we're liberating the city from the socialist mayor. I mean, that is pretty, it's comical, but it's dark. Yeah. And it's also, it's Orwellian duck speak, right? I mean, it's just- Duck lips, I think. Easy. You know, it's-

She chose them, but she chose them. I went into the office and pointed at the picture of Daffy and was like, I want that one. Sorry, continue. So as I was saying, it's that assembling of approved phrases, you know, California socialist, you know, invaders, liberation, what, what, what, what, what it's meant to like ping dopamine receptors in the in the faithful, you know, it doesn't mean anything. And I'm sure she doesn't believe it. And I think this is the problem for a lot of the people in LA that are trying to protest this. As far as Trump's concerned, this is an away game.

This is all just fodder to generate stuff that he's going to export back into the bloodstream of the rest of America. So, you know, it's good socialists, liberating from socialist lead. But of course that also sounds like the DHS secretary saying, I'm here to overthrow the local government of California. Right. And I, you know, you should be a little careful about that kind of rhetoric, I would say. And I think it's an important context when you have the senator from California who's

trying to represent his own constituents who didn't vote for the militarization of their streets to liberate them out there trying to engage and the reaction is to handcuff them. I think that context is important. I thought conservatives were all about the 10th amendment and local control and small government and limiting executive overreach and not having the deep state extend its military tentacles throughout the blah, blah, blah, blah. It just goes to show you that on these issues where, and I suppose this is why I still bristle every time people say, well, they're conservatives and you're a

conservative, there is nothing conservative about this situation. This right-wing, far right-wing radicalism is indistinguishable from the kind of left-wing radicalism that if, you know, a bunch of like John, the president of my old school BU used to call me a bunch of short pants communists took over the government. They'd be doing the same thing. They'd be saying we're here to liberate, you know, the people of California from this fascistic, you know, police state. It's the same dynamic with just different labels on it. Yeah, right. I started, like, there's no apt comparison, but just like, just, just work with me here.

Let's say there's a red state somewhere that was, you know, discriminating against trans folks in a way where trans folks felt like they were unsafe and president Kamala Harris had decided I'm going to actually, I'm going to actually nationalize the Arkansas national guard and we're going to put troops on the streets of Little Rock to protect the trans kids at the local high school. I mean, it's kind of a silly metaphor because it doesn't quite work in the reverse, but there would be just talk about accusations of communism. Fox would be like apoplectic, government takeover of the American state. Let's think about where there's a lot of other illegal immigrants. Texas, Arizona.

He picked LA because the one, and I wrote about this a few days ago, he picked LA because he has a genius for picking the right fights. When I used to teach strategy to military guys, we had an expression that we used for lucking out and getting a kind of a dumb enemy, which is that he chose LA because it also has a cooperative adversary in it. It has an adversary that doesn't just take his bait, but rushes into the traps that he sets, you know, with open arms. And he knew what would happen.

And so, so far he, this is getting scripted out exactly the way he thought it would, and people are playing into it. It really shows you that the modern Republican Party, whatever it's become now, not the thing that you and I knew 20 years ago, but it's become about power, just the raw exercise of power. Not about principle, not about power, just the raw exercise of power, not about principle, not about ideology, not about conservatism. It's about a group of people who have carried around a lot of resentment and feeling like they should be the people in charge getting picked up in the limos every morning.

That's all it's about. There's no overriding philosophy of government. I mean, I suppose if you had to look around in this, in this coterie of people for somebody who actually believes in what they're doing, it's probably somebody like Russ Vowt. The rest of them are just, you know, where's my limo? Who's bringing my lunch? And you know, tell me what I have to say to stay in this job. Yeah, we will get to some prime examples of that in Israel, but just a couple more things in LA

and on the immigration stuff. Because it's also not about, obviously, about small government or constitution or individual rights. Like what's happening right now is continuing to happen in LA. The fact that they're not producing more crazy waymos on fire videos just continues to demonstrate how ridiculous what is happening

right now is. We currently still have federal military on the streets of Los Angeles for no legitimate reason. And so what they're doing now is essentially creating a perimeter for ICE rates. So we've got two different types of, to your earlier point, federal law enforcement. One going in and harassing unarmed people because they're being racially targeted because they're suspected of being undocumented immigrants. And then you've got dudes with guns, like standing around creating a semi-circle around

them. And that is totally inappropriate. Of course. And I still think that part of the reason that they're doing that is that they want people to rush that perimeter. And in fact, when they're not getting that response, what's Trump's answer? Well, I'm going to send more Marines. You know, like I'm not getting the allergic response I want.

And then he sends more Marines and then people, you people... It's almost a symbiotic relationship at this point. The best idea I heard about what to do in LA, someone said, yeah, instead of flying Mexican flags and burning Waymo's and yelling at the National Guardsmen, these guys don't have enough food and places to sleep. Have a bunch of taco trucks or food trucks show up, put out some really great food, say, this is for you guys and leave.

Because they don't want to be there. They don't know why they're there. And I think that's the most powerful part of this is that when it's over, what you want is a bunch of military guys who said, why was I there? What was the point of this? But it's just going to keep going on. Just for kicks, LA, since LA is on fire, producer Katie, maybe you can chime in in case I'm missing anything here.

She's out in LA. I just pulled up while you're talking NBC, like the local LA for something like maybe I'm missing something about what is happening in LA. The top stories right now on NBC for number one, downtown LA businesses miss out on customers due to city curfew. Over 30 farm workers detained by ICE in Ventura County sparking widespread fear. And the Padilla story. And it's like, we have troops on the streets for what?

It was like LAPD, one of the biggest police departments in the country couldn't handle this. Like, I can't believe what a sheep you are. You're going to totally believe that lame stream media stuff when there are socialists taking over and leading a Mexican invasion force in the streets of Los Angeles. I mean, what do you think? Is that right? Okay.

That's what I hear is going on. Maybe CBS has CBS Los Angeles says something on this. No, uh-uh. Uh, one suspect was arrested for throwing a can at a deputy during the downtown protest. Not great. A socialist can. Don't throw cans at deputies. Don't do that.

But if that's the number two story, again, it doesn't seem like it's a city on fire that requires the federal government to liberate it. Look, shit is crazy. So it's important to get your T's cross your eyes dotted when it comes to things in your life that you can control. And one way to do that is with our ad sponsor, Trust and Will. Trust and Will can help ensure your loved ones are covered when it comes to things like medical decisions and power of attorney, you can go to trustandwill.com

slash bulwark to get 20% off their simple, secure, and expert backed estate planning services. Something that I need and I'm looking into myself. They make it real easy. They got an easy to use website that's simple to navigate. All your information and documents are securely stored with bank level encryption. Each will or trust is state-specific legally valid and customized to your needs. We can't control everything, but trust and will can help you take control of protecting your family's future. Go to trustandwill.com slash bulwark for 20% off. That's 20% off at trustandwill.com slash bulwark. Just on a couple of other immigration stuff, Trump does seem to be tacoing a little bit

on at least certain kinds of deportations. I don't know if you saw this. He said, our great farmers and people in the hotel and leisure business have been stating that our very aggressive policy on immigration is taking good long-time workers away from them. With those jobs being almost impossible to replace, they're being replaced by the criminals that Biden brought in, apparently. GT Thompson, the chair of the Ag Committee, real ones who listen might remember GT Thompson

as the person that voted against the codification of gay marriage. I believe it was either the week before or after attending his son's gay wedding. He's the House Ag chair on the Republicans. They need to knock it off, GT Thompson told reporters of DHS. Let's go after criminals and give us time to put process in place so we don't disrupt the food supply chain. So there's some concerns in red America about what's happening.

We got some phone calls from people who own hotels. Such as the president. Yeah. And, you know, suddenly you can write this script, right? People calling up and saying, listen, I understand. You had to say stuff to get elected, but you're about to arrest, you know, a lot of people that actually keep the economy functioning

here, including my business. And that's always when Trump backs down. Some rich guy calls him and says, hey, not my industry, okay? Okay, sorry. So the other thing, I think, when you talk about tacoing, you know, going back to why this is happening in LA, it's happening because in everywhere else,

in the courts, Trump's losing. And he wants to change that narrative. He's underwater. The only thing people really agree with are deportations. And you know, if you ask that question, ask me, am I in favor of sending people home who are here illegally as a general answer? Yes, of course I am. Of course, it's this obvious answer of saying if someone's breaking the law and they're

here illegally, should they be sent back to their country of origin? For most people, the default answer is yes. Then yes, but with due process, with some compassion, with some understanding, with input from the community, that not every person here illegally is alike. They're not all MS-13. They're not all armed robbers. Do this in a sensible way with a lot of input from the local level. He's underwater on everything else.

Yeah. Including how it's being done, you know, that and so he wants this. He wants these images. He wants to be able to say, look, I know you don't like this, but these people really are just a foreign army. And, you know, I will, I know I'm a broken record on this. I'll put the plea in one more time. Don't give him the video that he wants so badly. Pete Yeah. I mean, this is the thing that frustrates me is like, oh, hotel magnet is upset that the hoteliers are losing their staff. It's like, oh, won't somebody think about the poor hoteliers who can't staff their kitchen?

And it's like the Ag committee chair is upset about the rich farmers that are calling him. It's never like, you know, maybe I should consider if in the one area that I know very well, hotels, in Trump's case, farms, in G.G. Thompson's case, this is being handled haphazardly. area that I know very well, hotels, in Trump's case, farms, in G.G. Thompson's case, this is being handled haphazardly. Maybe it's also being handled haphazardly across all of the other verticals as well. You know, that never seems to sink in with anybody.

Stephen Miller saying, I want 3,000 people a day. Well, you know, the problem is that when you say that, they're going to go hunt where the ducks are. They're going to go try and find the biggest concentration of people where they can think that some percentage of them, because it's very important not to stereotype here either. Not everybody works on a farm or a hotel as a legal immigrant, but they're going to go and say, what are the chances that I'm going to be able to make my quota? They're not going to walk through South Central LA and say, all right, everybody show me your ID. Duck call.

But they're going to go to places where they can say, all right, I know you people are out where everybody down in the kitchen, everybody over here in the utility room. All right, you, you, you, and you." Because it becomes, and this actually happens in authoritarian countries on a lot of levels when it comes, when they're looking for those. I just say, put a bunch of people together. I got to file a report. I have paperwork that I need to finish.

So you, you, you, and you, you're under arrest, let's go. They're not actually doing the policing or the work that makes people safer, which is what Trump promised, right? I'm going after the criminals. I'm glad that innocent people are not going to get swept up in this, but there is a part of me that wants Americans to see, as many of them have already said,

hey, wait a minute, I didn't vote for this. I thought they were going to take the bad immigrants. No, Stephen Miller doesn't care about that. Stephen Miller has, you know, I mean, somebody must have really humiliated him in high school about immigration or something, but this is his thing and he doesn't care about that. And so once you set this machinery in motion, it will become just this kind of clockwork of must find people, must arrest, must process, find, arrest, process, find, arrest, process. That Trump and other people just didn't think through what that looks like on a daily basis and now they're finding out.

And the other gathering place, just the last thing on this is the courts. You know, and we'll put in the show notes, it won't really translate to audio, but I was watching a video this morning that our buddies at Tennessee Holler put up of this guy who's an Afghan interpreter, who's like going in for his normal court check-in, who is getting cuffed and taken out. And he's shouting, I helped the military for three years. Right? And so like, that's the other way.

Like it's the opposite, of going after criminals. They are gathering up the people that are showing up, that are trying to do the right thing. Right. But it's easy. Because they have got to make a quota of people who are here illegally. I'll just wait for the good ones to obey the order to show up and explain themselves and take them away. Because really, who wants to go deal with a bunch of criminals? Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead

with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra durable Pocket Hose Copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty.

What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you'll agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No just required terms apply available at pockethost.com slash terms. Looking for the perfect getaway in the heart

of Red Rock country? Discover Grand Plateau RV Resort in Canab, Utah, where comfort meets adventure. Spacious RV sites, luxury cabins, and top tier amenities make every stay unforgettable. Take a dip in the heated pool, relax in the spa, or unwind with private restrooms and pickleball too.

Minutes from Zion, Bryce Canyon, and the Grand Canyon, Grand Plateau RV Resort is your ideal base camp for exploring the southwest's natural wonders. And when the day winds down, enjoy starry skies and peaceful nights under the desert sky. Adventure, comfort, and convenience. That's Grand Plateau RV Resort. Book your stay today at gprvresort.com. Pete Over to Israel and Iran. I just, who knows? We're 12 hours into this at the time of taping

this. So, you know, obviously, this is a developing situation. things could happen by this afternoon, but at least that for the first wave, just an unbelievable, an unbelievably effective decimation of Iranian targets from Israel. You began your article for the Atlantic last night, Israel's bold risky attack. You compared it to the Godfather Briss. Maybe talk about that a little bit. First of all, it was a christening. Excuse me, christening. The Godfather Briss. Let me talk about that a little bit. First of all, it was a christening. Excuse me, christening. The Godfather Briss.

Right, obviously. Wow. No, yeah. I just need a little more coffee. Jesus, Tim. Christening, baptism. But yeah, the baptism. Do the whole circumcision, it's just we don't have a little,

we don't have a ceremony around. Wow. Yeah. So I had Israel on the mind. We're talking about Israel. Okay. Anyway, sorry. I'm just keep digging. Okay Anyway, can you talk to us about the guy? I think everyone heard was the shovel coming in after you So yes, the scene in the Godfather were Michaels at the christening and his guys are wiping everybody out and the reason I brought it up is not because of the scale of the wipeout, but because Michael says afterwards, if you remember, he says to his traitorous ferret of a brother-in-law, Carlo, he says, today I settled all family business.

And that's what it came across as Netanyahu basically saying, that's it. I'm going to settle all accounts here. I'm going to take out the Iranians. I have mixed feelings about this. I don't trust B.B. Netanyahu. I don't like the idea of courting a major war in the Middle East. By the way, another musical reference, People, it's one of his lesser known songs. But if you're thinking about this stuff today, do yourself a favor and go play The Envoy by Warren Zvon Which was written, you know 40 odd years ago and it practically predicted all of this on the other hand if the Iranians are that Close to a nuclear weapon and the Israelis were claiming, you know weeks, you know, they could make the argument Look, it's a genocidal regime. They've been threatening for you know decades to wipe us out

the moment of you know push has come to shove, and we need to take this out. The reason I'm a little skeptical about that, the Israelis keep saying this is a preemptive attack. A preemptive attack is the thing you do when someone's just about to attack you, when the fist is cocked, when the gun is being drawn from the holster. Instead this looks like a lot more like a preventive war. It's like, look, the timing is advantageous to us. We know where these targets are.

We can get at them. We're going to do this on our schedule. We're just going to execute an attack with, if not strategic surprise, operational surprise. Not that the Iranians didn't know that something was coming one day, but they didn't know it was coming today. Also, the breadth of the targets, it says to me at this point, and again, we're working on partial information 12 hours in, but this doesn't look like we're just going to take out the nuclear program and end this threat to our existence.

When you kill the entire general staff and you do this big sweep of leadership, that looks like a regime change operation. I mean, that looks like really just kind of knocking the struts out of the government everywhere. And, you know, I'm an American. I would not miss the Iranian regime, but I'm also not comfortable with, you know, putting the entire Middle East in flames at a touching moment like this. So, that's my kind of squishy one-hand other-hand approach to this. I want to react to that, but I just, you had me on the Warren Zevons song, so I had to pull it up. Yeah, Nostradamus, nuclear arms in the Middle East, Israel's attacking the

Iraqis, little off, Syrians are mad at the Lebanese. But then you go into verse two, things got hot in... El Salvador. El Salvador. How about that? CIA got caught, couldn't do no more. Of all the songs. The breadth of the attack, I just want to caveat what I'm about to say is my operating assumption about all... This might not be about circumcisions, Tim. It isn't. My operating assumption about all things Middle East when it comes to Middle Eastern.

And you might get mad at me about this because I'm a little bit on the death side of the death of expertise on this. All the Middle East experts have been wrong about everything my whole life. Everybody keeps being wrong and everybody's very reactive to the last thing. Well, this thing didn't work, so we shouldn't do it anymore. Nobody predicted Assad was going to fall. He fell in two days. We're going to be out of Iraq in two minutes.

We're in there for a decade. You could just go down the list. The Obama people will be like, we were right about the Iranian nuclear deal. Well, it turns out that Iran ended up being emboldened and there's a lot of terror that comes out of it. No matter which side of it you're on, you've got some X marks as far as the Middle East. And so I have a skepticism of all of the experts

telling me what's gonna happen. I do not, again, disbelieve my lying eyes though. And Israel has, over the course of the last year, executed some of the last year, executed some of the most effective pinpoint military operations against Hezbollah and Iran, not talking about what's happening in Gaza, but against Hezbollah and now in Iran, that you've seen. And I don't know, maybe the conventional wisdom that, okay, if Israel does this, it's going to lead to some wider war and Iran's

going to escalate. That might turn out to be wrong. They might be able to successfully incapacitate them and if so, good. If so, good riddance to the Islamic regime and Iran. Yeah. But I still think that if the Israelis are going ahead on this, on the pretext, let's not even say pretext, on the rationalization, the platform of being a preemptive strike. They're going to have to show a certain amount of necessity here because otherwise it looks like the kind of thing we did with Iraq, which really poisoned the well for 25 years of saying, we just don't like this regime and it's got to go.

I supported that at the time. I said, I remember at the time thinking the world's too, you know, from 9-11 rogue nuclear weapons, massive rogue state, you know, a big rogue state in Iraq, I sort of was where Tony Blair was and, you know, Bush and a lot of others saying this many dangerous moving pieces, one of them has to go. Now, that could be the argument for Iran. Problem is, I also worry about how much this has fused personally to Netanyahu's domestic problems.

So, again, there's kind of a trust issue there. And you're right, this could be the beginning of the end of a lot of strife in the Middle East because the Iranians are the beginning of the end of a lot of strife in the Middle East because the Iranians are the source of so much of it. Aaron Norris Iran's pretty isolated right now in the Middle East, you know, with the Syrian regime fell like they don't really have a state ally in the in the region. We'll see. We'll continue to cover it more. I just well, I guess I'll get back to Trump. I just want to say like say one more thing on this about the effectiveness while we're talking about it. It just is also noteworthy to me, like my main takeaway from last night is we seem pretty

unserious to me right now. And obviously having a fucking former drunk TV, weekend TV host at the head of the Secretary of Defense is your prime example. But it's not just the Trump administration. If you just go back to the last few administrations, Jamie Weinstein tweeted this, Israel haters will want to frame Israel's successes as the product of American support, and then he goes on. But when have you seen us pull off operations as large as successful as the pager up with

Hezbollah and the current Iran strike? This is remarkable. Again, it might not look this way in a week, but the seriousness with which Israel has taken their military operations compared to the clown show that we see in our country is pretty striking. And I think about now the Ukraine and Israel doing these drone attacks inside Russia and Iran. Both of them had agents inside the countries. And do you feel confident that the people at the top of our program are prepared for this kind of stuff? Because I really don't.

That's part of what's making me itchy. I mean, I think whether you support what just happened or you deplore it, you know, I'd feel better about all of this. Oh, look who's here. The cat's here. Here. This is my new kitty. Whoa, come here, cat. Come on in, kitty. You better about all of this. Oh, look who's here. The cat's here, here. This is my new kitty. Whoa, come here, cat. Come on in, kitty.

You wanted to be on TV, you got your wish. Yeah, okay, get out of here. You know, if we had a functioning White House, an actual National Security Council, a real Secretary of Defense, I would say, okay, this is, you know, like, again, whether you approve or disapprove what Israel's doing, it's risky.

It's putting a lot of pieces in motion. It's throwing, you know, matches that a gasoline can, but at least there are competent, reasonable people taking care of my country who are working with these people, staying in touch, communicating. And instead, you've got the president. Well, I didn't know, but I kind of knew, but what a great thing they did, but I'm sorry they did it, but we were gonna negotiate, but they did a great, I mean, it's, you know.

Talk about weakness. I mean, this is classic Trump. He was sitting there last night, Rubio puts out a statement that's like, we didn't coordinate with this. And then it goes extremely well. And this morning Trump's calling reporters. He's like calling Dana Bash being like,

what a great job we did. Look at us. You know, it's just like this guy, I had it gone badly. You know, had a run, been firing missiles, uh, Tel Aviv. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, my, my colleague, David Graham had this great piece about a year ago that I keep coming back to, which is never ask Trump a hypothetical. It's crazy.

He never says no a hypothetical. It's crazy. Because he never says no. Right. Right? So if you say to him, possible we were involved in this, possible we looked at it very strongly. He never says, look, you know, we're in touch with,

you don't get adult competent grownup answers out of this administration and out of the president. And right now, not as a writer or as a talking head or as an American citizen, I just want to know what my government knows and what's going on while Israel has launched a major operation against a country of 70 million people led by a very dangerous government. I would like some clarity on that. And instead you get you know well we get you get these weird host i don't know if you saw the one yesterday that ended with thank you for your attention to this matter what we're trying to do diplomacy with the wrong thank you for your attention this matter like a letter from your house because you are parking the wrong condo spot. because you were parking in the wrong condo spot. Yeah.

I mean, it's so weird. It weakens your confidence that anybody knows what's going on. He's gutted the National Security Council. Rubio is doing four jobs. Our ambassador to Israel is, I mean, you know. Another TV host. Yeah, how do you explain Mike Huckabee?

You know, a former governor, but also a guy who haw know, hawks, supplements. The guy who is the point man on the supposed deal with Iran that we were working on before the bombing started as an, as a New York real estate man. That's also the point man on the Ukraine Russia negotiations, which he's where he seems to really admire Putin, Ukraine, Israel, and it's the other stuff. Like again, like the 700 troops or whatever we have in LA are probably not, we're not probably going to be needed to be on call in case there's an escalating war in the Middle East.

But yeah, is this the stuff we should be thinking? When you have a weekend Fox News host running the military, you have a weekend Fox News host level of seriousness. And what we have is a guy that was at a baseball game in LA, well, he's got some troops there on the streets that are going after unarmed migrants and preparing for a birthday boy parade for the president to the streets of DC tomorrow. The unseriousness of that and the perniciousness of what's happening in LA split screened with what is happening in Tehran,

like it's pretty disheartening and depressing. To make a more serious point about international relations here, Tim, the world is basically now operating as if the United States doesn't exist. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm sorry, I'm 64, I'm not used to that. I mean, I, you know, I came of age when the United States was at the peak of its power from the mid-80s to the late 90s and remained powerful ever since. But this past 10 years or so, it really is disturbing. And I'm going to throw some of the shade on Barack Obama for this as

well because of what he did in the Middle East. that increasingly this retrenchment, this pullback means that people are basically just operating as if the United States doesn't matter. When I used to teach political science, we would talk about how do you define power? One of the definitions of power is that other people must take you into their calculations. If you're irrelevant, you're not powerful. That's what's happening to us is that we are increasingly being taken out of these calculations because we have an administration again for the second time that thinks everything is about domestic politics, getting over on your domestic enemies and opponents and, you know,

getting even with your domestic political rivals. opponents and getting even with your domestic political rivals. The world doesn't care about any of your girl fights and I shouldn't say that the girls are fighting, that's a reference, but they don't care about any of your stupid slap fights at home. The world goes on and is full of very dangerous and very serious people, and they don't really care if Kristi Noem got a chuckle out of roughing up Alex Padilla. They're busy. They're going to do bad stuff.

I'm going for one more cultural reference, and I used it before. It's a great line from Miller's Crossing where one of the gangster says to his boss, I'd worry less if I thought you were worrying enough. And that's how I feel about this government. I'd worry less if I thought they were worrying enough. Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total

game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super-light and ultra-durable Pocket Hose Copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase

of any size copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you'll agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply available at pockethose.com slash terms. All right, well, initially when we decided I was like, we should try to get Tom Nichols for Friday.

It's because I wanted you to talk about his fancy birthday boy parade, but unfortunately, real news intervened. Well, the birthday boy parade is disgraceful. I mean, it's, you know, this, oh, no, no, it's about the army. It's their 215th anniversary. The army wasn't going to do this. You know, the army was not going to throw itself a parade, spend $40 million, wreck

the streets of DC that will have to be fixed. This is Donald Trump. A lot of what you're seeing in this second Trump term is Trump saying, they told me I couldn't have these things the first time around, and now I'm in charge. Now I'm going to get the stuff I want, and I'm getting my parade for my birthday because Uncle Jim Mattis and mean cousin Mark Esper didn't let me have it the last time. He's just determined to do that. And I think in a more nefarious way,

I mean, Trump is very childlike in a lot of ways, but I think there is a darker thing going on here. And that is he will be happy to have the split screen of patriots saluting, going by the stand, rendering colors to the commander in chief, all that stuff, with a bunch of stupid kids throwing bottles at the Marines in Los Angeles. He lives, I know there are a lot of people, a lot of liberals, a lot of people on the

left who say that split screen will destroy him. That will be, he will, no, that split screen is what he's aiming for, because it will say to America, patriotism, glory, flags, good. Donald Trump, that's what Donald Trump's world is like. Alex Padilla and Gavin Newsom and Karen Bass, kids in balaclavas throwing rocks at our valiant Marines. I think these two things are happening together for a reason, because as you keep pointing out, Tim, there was no actual triggering event, no forcing function in LA to require the Marines

to go into the streets. So this was timing that was purely at the White House's discretion, and I think they know exactly what they're doing. I agree with you on the imagery, but like, it just makes them look so small. Like it just is such a little baby mushroom decked thing to do. It's like, we're going to have a military parade. We didn't do anything. I don't like in the context of the Israel attack on Iran. It's like, what are we celebrating? What did you do? You've abandoned our friends in Ukraine. We left Afghanistan. We haven't won any wars recently. You haven't done anything good to merit a parade or useful or nothing

that is worthy of honoring, of having some sort of celebration. It's just for your ego. I don't know. I guess maybe people don't see through it, but it's just, it's really, I just think it looks even more embarrassing than it would have already in the context of what's happening. It's such a massive disconnect because to me, having watched Trump, you know, for, I mean, I went to grad school in New York. I remember Trump, you know, years ago, but every time I see Trump, especially over the past 10 years, everything he does to me projects he's a bully. And bullies, while they look impressive as a show, they always project fear and insecurity and weakness. And the great disconnect in the American perception

is I think a lot of us look at Trump and say, he's always afraid. He's got that, even down to the body like, Joey tightens up the shoulders and the hands come together. And he's, it's very much a kind of an anxiety thing. And other people look at him and say, what a man, what a strong guy. And I just, I'm like, I wrote this piece years ago and I'm pretty sure Trump read it because he came out swinging against the

Atlantic the next morning after it ran about how Trump is just the unmanliest president, right? Guy wears bling, puts on makeup, watches TV all day, you know, complains and bitches and moans and deflects responsibility. And I guess I'm just stunned at how people sort of, remember how they used to smear Vaseline on the lens in Star Trek to make all the women beautiful, right? It's like-

Carrie Lake is still doing that. Yeah. And I mean, it's just like the Trump supporters like smeared the Vaseline on the lens. They put the smoke filter over the lens and they say, wow, this guy who weighs about 239 pounds is really manly and tough. I think Trump knows, to make a more serious point, Trump knows that people buy that image

and so he does everything he can to surround himself with the kind of cheap festoonery of patriotism and that kind of patriotic symbolism because it props up that image to us, to the rest of us. It looks like, you know, like you keep saying, and a lot of us feel the same way, you know, it looks like a little boy playing with toys. I always say he thinks of the army as toy soldiers, but he does it. And I think, you know, his opponents have to take him seriously about this. He does it because it works with a certain number of people and not just the MAGA base.

This is a war for public opinion. It's a war of images. You were a political consultant. You know this better than anybody that people don't parse words and spend, you know, read 1500 words to get through this. They see those images and for most Americans, the image, you know, Marshall McLuhan was right, the medium is the message. Well, on that point, I guess you just got to admit that it worked, even though again,

it just darkened my spirit. I got a chill down my spine watching the Fort Bragg speech. But we talked about this with Hurtling on Wednesday, but since that conversation, there's been some new reporting by military.com and some of the other folks that cover the military. Something that Hurtlinks said that we suspected was now confirmed that there was a memo that went out that dictated what types of soldiers could be there. No fat guys. Yeah, no fats, no dems is how I summarized the memo basically.

And so that went out, which at some ways makes me feel a little bit better, I guess, because I was a little shook by just the degree of raucousness of the approval. The idea that maybe there are some other soldiers that just didn't show makes me feel just only the tiniest bit better, but a little. We also had a reporting this morning, ahead of the rally, army officials raised alarms over the plan for a vendor to sell Trump branded merch on site, including MAGA chain necklaces, a white privilege credit card and other stuff. They were overruled.

They were allowed to do that. Well, and that's the question. Overruled by whom? I mean, I don't know. Yeah, that's still in the reporting. I assume Hegseth, but I don't know. Yeah, that's still in the reporting. I assume Hegseth, but I don't know. Well, the base commander is a colonel. And I suppose, you know, if I were the army chief of staff, there's a scary thought, you

know, especially I taught all those years for the Navy. So even talking about running the army, you know, it's like just anathema. But someone senior should say, you know what? This thing was a complete shit show. Our soldiers acted with total unprofessional behavior. We allowed a partisan vendor on the premises, fire the base commander. Now, if Hegseth can countermand that and put him back, and that's when you quit. Then you say, if I can't fire a colonel who basically allowed somebody in his committee, I don't know that this colonel allowed it, but it's his base.

Everything that happens at Fort Bragg, that's his call. That's his responsibility. If you can't hold accountable that guy or maybe there needs to be somebody below him. Somebody should be fired for this because it broke tradition and it probably broke the law and it certainly contravened army regulations. Having worked in the DOD for 25 years where people were always trying to get me fired over regulations, I'm pretty sure I know what those are. Yeah, I've seen some people on Twitter trying to get you fired as well.

This is not the first event that Ben there. But my point, Tim, is if Hegseth overrules them, that's the moment where you say, if I'm not in charge, if I'm an army officer who's not in charge of my subordinates, then I guess it's time to go. So then let me ask about why that isn't happening. Because you were, you and I asked Hurtling about this. I forget if it was an article or on social media you posted about like where are the generals? It was an article for the Atlantic.

It was an article for the Atlantic. Why are more people speaking out? And you know, Hurtling, who's very good and clear-eyed about, you know, his values and what the military culture should look like. And unlike a lot of other retired officers is speaking out publicly. He is. But even, like you can sense with him, like, there is something about the military culture that is different, right? Like, where

he is, like, he's at certain times carefully choosing his words. And I think it's very easy to see what he thinks and, like, you know, by listening to him. And I'm grateful that he came on that he's speaking out. But so many others aren't talking at all, right? Like, you hear nothing from Matt all. You hear nothing from Mattis, you hear nothing from any of these people, Kelly. Why is that? I don't understand. I'm a soft-handed, sedentary civilian. So, between the teaching I did and other stuff, I spent about 30 years working with the professional military. One of the things that I admire about them, aside from their patriotism and their love of country and their service to America, from the very beginning, like when they become

senior non-coms, sergeants, chiefs, or lieutenants, captains, majors, one of the things that has drilled into them is the lives of these men and women under you are your responsibility. You are responsible for the literally for the life and death of people who are following you and you have to maintain that unit cohesion. You have to maintain that authority. You have to know that when you all go somewhere, you go together and you're going to offer your lives up for each other. It's not part of the military culture.

I say this as an outside observer and I say it admiringly, it's not part of the military culture to say, hey, we got to deploy to LA. Who's pissed? Who doesn't want to fucking do this? No, but that's not... It's been driving me crazy watching people on social media say, well, these Marines should just say they're not going to go. No, it doesn't work that way. In part, not just because you're getting orders from your superiors, but because these are

all your friends and comrades in arms. They're going to get deployed. You're not going to say, well, good luck, Bill. Screw you. I'm not going with you. I'll let you go. You support those folks. And I think when you get to very senior levels, kind of job, you know, Mark Hurtling had,

you're worried that you don't want to start pushing over dominoes that then fall and disrupt the chain of command and that kind of cohesion. I'm not speaking for Mark, by the way, and I know him and I admire him greatly, but I'm not speaking on his behalf here. And so part of that culture is that, and also at very senior ranks to say, how do I defend the apolitical tradition, George Washington's tradition of the army by speaking up and becoming political? Right? They feel mouse-trapped by that. It's like, if you say, I am going tradition of the army by speaking up and becoming political. Right.

They feel mouse trapped by that. It's like, if you say, I'm going to stand up and defend the traditions of the army by criticizing the commander in chief, their answer, I think for a lot of those guys would be to say, at which point I have become part of the problem. Now my answer to that, and I have spoken with many of them, you know, off the record, you know, just to have called or contacted me and expressed their concerns. My answer is, this is an extraordinary moment. I was on Nicole Wallace's show the other day and I kind of very emotionally I said, if there was a time to speak out, this is it.

This is it's now. This is this is now because I have never seen and I've been to a lot of military events in my career. I have never seen a bunch of young enlisted people standing behind a president hooting and yucking it up and imitating his dance moves and you know, jeering the governor of California. This is out of control. I mean, this is really dangerous stuff. It's obscene. It's an offense to the greatest traditions of the American civil military relationship. I think I understand the reticence of all those generals and admirals who say, if I

speak up, I become part of the political issue. But I think there's a time to speak up to say, look, I don part of the political issue. But there is a time to, I think there's a time to speak up to say, look, I don't care what Donald Trump's politics are. I care that he allowed orders to be issued to put partisans behind him. And I would object to any president doing that, because, you know, I'm a general, I'm an admiral, I've had to lead these people. And I think it's just time, but that reticence you're seeing, Tim, it comes from a place of principle. Now, I'll just finish by saying, because this is all too much happy talk and you and I are usually much darker.

There's also just a lot of rank, careerism and cowardice taking over some of these folks. And that's just how it is. To your point, which was really well stated there at the end, just about how this is an extraordinary moment, that's more in your wheelhouse. I feel a little bit more reticent to be like, generals should speak out right now because I don't, it's hard for me to understand all their considerations and all that. It was disgusting, just as an American, the notion that what the American military should be and the fact that they serve the country and are here to protect the fake news that they were booing and jeering and to protect the people of California that they were jeering

their elected officials. That feels wrong. It's wrong and it's against army regulations. Yeah, it does feel wrong and it does feel like the type of thing that you'd speak out against and that's just circling back to the top. That's how I felt about the Padilla thing. At some point, there's times where it would feel gauche and silly for a senator to just interrupt a press conference and do that. But I don't know, man, if the Department of Homeland Security is sending masked agents onto the streets of your city, and they're hassling your constituents and

they're doing it extrajudicially and they're doing it in a manner that is against the Constitution and they're bullying and you are their representative sometimes. This is just a moment where it calls for this. You've got to stand up and say, no, no. And I'm glad on this, going back to the Padilla thing, you know, I've been, I've been pretty hard over about saying, don't go out there and, and get into a pissing match with the national guard. On the other hand, Alex Padilla standing in front of Christine Noem saying, I

want answers as the, as the Senator from California. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's it. That's exactly what should be happening. There should be a lot more politicians there and in Washington saying, no, it's not business as usual. We're not just going to keep going on here.

Now, interestingly enough, yesterday, district court said Trump has to return control of the guard back to the governor. Yeah, that got over. I think it was stayed. Yeah, at least it was. And that was stayed until? There's a night night ruling that they're going to look at on Monday, I guess. But so it's stayed now to Monday.

Until we know if the president is actually going to obey the order of a court to return control of the guard, there are a few issues in American politics more important than that right now. And everybody should be focused on that. And by everybody, I mean, elected officials should be focusing every, you know, every chance you get to say, I want to know if the president's going to follow the lawful orders of federal court to return the guard to the jurisdiction of the governor.

Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose, copperhead with pocket pivot is here. And it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for

effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super-light and ultra-durable Pocket pocket hose copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64,000. That's WATER to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000.

By texting 64,000, you'll agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Host. Messaged data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply available at pockethost.com slash terms. Real quick, rapid fire. One funny thing and two things that are off, you know, just into our musical side of interests with Tom.

Marco Rubio put out a statement yesterday, did you see this? Not the one where he said we weren't involved in Israel, he put out a different statement, he put out two pretty shameful statements. Here's this one, I just want to read it to you before I lose you. On behalf of the American people, I want to congratulate the Russian people on Russia Day. The United States remains committed to supporting the Russian people as they continue to build on their aspirations for a brighter future. We also take this opportunity to reaffirm the United States' desire for constructive

engagement with the Russian Federation to bring about a durable peace between Russia and Ukraine. It's our hope that peace will foster more mutually beneficial relations between our countries. I swore I thought that was fake. I thought it was fake. And I went, before I read it, I went to the State Department website to make sure. For people that don't know,

June 14th is like Russia Day. It's a post-Soviet holiday. Again, this is the Secretary of State. If Russia had a non-neo-fascist government, that's exactly the thing you should send sure but not today you know they weren't kidnapping our allies children and bombing indiscriminately cities somebody standing next to Rubio should have handed him the piece of paper that says do not congratulate yes but it's it just

shows you first of all it shows you that unlike the first Trump term, they've managed to wipe out a lot of the competent staff. This is a classic kind of staffing error. Because Marco Rubio, and remember, Rubio is supposed to be the best of the cabinet appointments. Marco Rubio has probably not spent a lot of time sitting around thinking, what should I write on Russia Day on June 14th? You know, this is somebody, some staffer, this, this problem got staffed out and it's like, doesn't anybody at Foggy Bottom know what they're doing?

No. Was there not one person in the room set to say, uh, maybe not today, sir. Just maybe this isn't the year to congratulate them on Russia Day. This isn't the year. You could send a message that says, we congratulate the Russian people on Russian Day. We look forward to them returning to the fraternity of democracies or something, but instead, as if nothing's happened. It's just remarkable. It's not remarkable. It's shameful, but... It's shameful. It's shameful. There you go. All right. Into musicals. I'm sorry to, um, I hope you're going to use the

envoys your outro music today. I might. Well, I had a different idea. We'll talk about it. Maybe the envoy we'll see. Who knows? Maybe we'll have, maybe we'll have two musics today. I don't know. Maybe we'll have it. Was there a spot for a intermission? We'll have to think about that. Andrew Wiseman yesterday. I hate to correct guests, you know, when they're not here to get corrected. And so, with love and appreciation, Andrew Wiseman, I have to correct him. I received so many messages about this. He was wrong about the plot of Les Mis saying it was happening during the French Revolution. It was happening, I don't know. As I mentioned on yesterday's podcast, I don't do musicals, I don't do musicals, I don't do musical theater.

I couldn't have named a character in Les Mis. I couldn't have told you what country it happened in. I know nothing about it. And so in this case, I was unable to correct him live. And I just wanted to let say that. So I guess I'm sure you have some expertise on this. Les Mis takes place during some other French conflagration. I have not seen, I believe I know that it does not take place during the French

Revolution, but I have never seen Le Mizz. Okay, me and Todd together. Cheers. Unlike you, this is a weird thing, Tim. I'm very into musical theater. I know. I'm totally a Broadway guy. That's a weird gap for you. And so here's this last one. I don't know if you're going to agree with me on this or I suspect you'll shame me, but Brian Wilson died. RIP. Oh yeah.

Okay. I'm just going to whisper it. I hate the Beach Boys. I hate the Beach Boys. What's wrong with you? I, and I went through a phase- Where did the Beach Boys hurt you? When I was younger and getting into music and like learning all of the seminal albums, you're supposed to learn if you're going to be a high school alternative music guy that smokes pot. Everybody all the potheads liked pet sounds.

And I went through a period of time where I pretended to like pet sounds to kind of fit in in high school. But there's one good track on it, I guess, which is nice. But they turned to MAGA, which makes me which makes me I don't know if Brian did but some of the rest Of them turned mega. So anyway, I don't I don't wish him any ill will I'm sad he died But I did feel like this was a moment maybe to admit that okay. This is just such a this is so wrong You know, do you like the Beatles? I do like the Beatles. Yeah McCartney once said that God only knows is one of the most beautiful songs ever written

Well the one track that you have to shout out. This is amazing. That was the one track on Pet Sounds I like. Well, but I would also say that, you know, watch the John Cusack, Paul Dano biopic about Brian Wilson. Okay. I do love Paul Dano. Paul Dano plays the young Brian Wilson. John Cusack plays the adult Brian Wilson. And it's a lot of it is about how they actually created songs like Good Vibrations,

you know, like going and getting the guy like Brian Wilson was this demented genius. Hey, you know, you know what this song needs? A theremin. You know, the theremin is the thing that goes, you know, in the back, he just layering, the tracks, you need to get away from pet sounds because I will tell you, I'll admit this to him, as a big Beach Boys fan from childhood, I didn't buy pet sounds until I was in my thirties. And I kind of didn't, even now, I don't put it, I don't listen to pet sounds. So, okay. Well, I think the other stuff's worse. Oh, come on.

Yes. It could be a generational, it must be generational. I put on Oasis for my dog yesterday. Let him run wild. I'm getting excited about the Oasis reunion. No, don't worry, baby. No Yes, I'm sorry. It could be a generational, it must be generational. I put on Oasis for my dog yesterday, so I'm getting excited about the Oasis reunion. Don't worry, baby. No, none of it happening for you. All that sounds, ugh. Oh, yeah.

That's giving me the crinch. I'm sorry. I don't mean to speak good of the dog. I won't drop the thing on you about how influential Brian Wilson was because John Heilman does this shit to me about Led Zeppelin and the velvet under and the velvet sorry you hate Lou Reed. Yeah, I hate Lou Reed Okay, well, we don't care about your opinion Thanks for my friends so brilliantly put it I'm not wealthy and alienated enough to like Lou Reed. Okay. Well, there you go I felt I feel read by that. I'm sorry for being an

Reed. Okay. Well, there you go. I felt, I feel read by that. I'm sorry for being an alienated bitch. John's always getting on me about, well, the Velvets were so influential. I'm like, yes, but their albums sucked. Wrong. Oh, okay.

Nobody sits down and says, you know what I'm going to do with the Velvets. All right. End the show. End the show. That's Radio Free Tom. He is just speaking ill of Lou Reed, which is not accepted on the Bullwork Podcast. We appreciate you. Oh, and everybody else, I'll be out there tomorrow. Go do what Tom says. Don't throw any water bottles at anybody, but go and peacefully speak

out tomorrow at the No Kings protest. I'll be at the one in New Orleans. We'll see y'all there. And Tom Nichols, I appreciate you coming on the podcast. It's good to see you again, Tim. Even though you have horrific opinions about Lou Reed. Don't even start. I'm sorry. In the big Lou Reed versus Brian Wilson war, my troops outnumber yours, pal. All right, Pete Brian Wilson. We'll see you all back here on Monday. Peace. The Syrians are mad at the liberties And Baghdad does whatever she please

Looks like another threat to world peace for the Hombor Things got hot in El Salvador CIA got caught and couldn't do the war He's got diplomatic immunity He's got a lethal weapon that nobody sees Looks like another threat to world peace For the onboard Send the onboard Send the onboard Whenever there's a crisis The president sends his envoy in Guns in Damascus, oh, Jerusalem Yeah!