The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - BITCOIN CRASH - BTC IS GOING TO ZERO | The CBP 241 Pt 1

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESThe price of Bitcoin is WAY DOWN, but is there more to go? Does it matter? Come hang out, and let's dive into it.Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - https://easydns.com EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.256Heat -⁠ https://256heat.com/ ⁠ GET PAID TO HEAT YOUR HOUSE with 256 Heat. Whether you're heating your home, garage, office or rental, use a 256Heat unit and get paid MORE BITCOIN than it costs to run the unit. Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.

a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and enemies. Welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed. Listen to Levin Joe E. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin. And easy D&S. The media is feeding a slop. It does. matter what topics discussed quality entertainment and information you can trust uh that's being planned or at least discussed you know we're not going to allow the entertainment and information you can trust

send the guys some value boost them with some stats bitcoin is the scarcity asset i mean it's just a fact geopolitical national down to the local clouds friends and enemies we are gathered here on this somber occasion to mourn the loss of all our riches my name is joey that's len what's going on buddy good to see you are you poor i'm more poor than i've been over the last 365 days by the looks of things i haven't looked at the uh price but i think i think we're red red on the last 365 days i don't know if a red year to date but we're red on the last 365 days i'm curious the last time we were under 100k was in like june or something we talked about it last week yeah you know what joey we were down to 75k in april i ain't worried like i can't

believe, I can't believe, actually, because there's a lot of newcomers in the space, but I do laugh at the number of people who feel like this is a disastrous price move in Bitcoin. When, if you are a, you know, 2017 ethos or ethos era, Bitcoiner, this is nothing, even if you're a 2020 Bitcoiner, you know, people remember these dips. And I was watching Fred Kruger who put out a video today, I think, is a form of therapy for himself. I did it today or yesterday, but I watched it this morning while I was on the bike. And he made a couple of good points in the video. As much as I disagree with some of the things he says, talking about how every bull market is marred by multiple 20% drops and

sometimes 25% drops and greater, 30%, 40% over the course of seven days, three days, 12 days, two weeks. What are you worried about? Why are people freaking out? Why aren't people talking about selling and coming back, you know, when we get when we reclaim this moving average, reclaim that wedge, reclaim, like I tweeted today, Bitcoin will treat you well if you are patient. It is a global liquidity suck at a moment where we are about to go full, like, cock out global liquidity pumping. And yeah, it's down a bit. But like, you know, you're already 25 or 30% off the high.

are you like do you really think it's going to go another 50% from here like like what what number would scare you if nothing's going to scare you off then why are you not buying more why are you not increasing your dca why are you not working for bitcoin why are you not doing all these things you know our sponsor bull bitcoin putting out a product today the recover bull and like these guys are working through the bear markets man me and you don't expect them to do anything else i know before before we want to further yeah yeah yeah we should talk about the sponsors because this would be good contact with the talk about after this one downhill easy dns best place for you to buy your domain host your domain

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And, of course, you'll be more than satisfied with the service you get from Mark. ECDNS.com, CBP Media is the code. You get half off your first round of buys. Don't forget as well that holding domains has proven to be also a relatively lucrative asset over time. If you can be patient with those, I'm not suggesting you do it. But there's worse places to spend your money for sure. Well, it's good that they have the ability or the option to start spending your Bitcoin over there. But how are you going to get some Bitcoin to spend over at Easy DNS?

You're going to have to buy it or work for it. But one place to buy it. And you can sell it too if your paper hands these days of bold Bitcoin, right? Let's be honest. There's still in operation with this price drop. Wasn't really that much of a drop if you asked me. Well, Bill Bitcoin's still there and offering you some new products like recoverable. And I can't really talk a bunch of it.

I wanted to learn a little more about it and actually use it. But I haven't because I'm so busy, but it's still a new option available for people out there who want to have a way to recover their Bitcoin seeds and it gives them flexibility with easy, secure backups and so forth. But nonetheless, what else could you do with bold Bitcoin aside from buying and selling? Well, you could pay your bills with them. You could send money to somebody and lots of different options. Look, they're available in different countries, Canada, Western Europe, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Argentina, so forth. they keep expanding as people want their services they're non-custodial this is what you want in exchange these guys they understand what it is to provide you good service they are the best

in the game check them out if you have not yet open an account what the heck you're waiting for use our code below by doing that all your buys themselves will be a little bit cheaper for the rest of your life so do that while you can for the rest of your life for the rest of your life I love maybe a day one bull bitcoin may not be there because they just made enough and they'll pack it up right you'll only catch the guys and give you Steakhouse in Montreal. Okay. Boots, shall we? Yeah, only three notable boosts this week. God's Deeth with respect to your sips.

What's that? Sip and rip. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Bruce. Appreciate you. My pleasure. Oh, sorry, Top W. Cone. He sends in for 250 sats. He says, my home state with a faith palm. and the story that he puts in he actually sends a story for us to check out quickly it's Kentucky officials forced to remind residents they can't vote in New York City

and Virginia elections they were reminding people they don't have elections today so people in Kentucky they wanted to vote in both the New York City and Virginia elections but they were unable to do so because obviously they're not in New York City or Virginia still people really wanted to vote and I know CBP was going to charter a bus down in New York

right for the vote but we never ended up doing it. We could have tipped the scales. Yeah, we were close. We didn't like one with enough to really do that. He's not, he's a pison, but he's not my kind of pison. He's not likable in my opinion. Hammertown OG 2,500 stats.

It says Canadian bitcoiners should rejoice to reduce taxation on yachts. Now that the tax has been reduced, I could buy that boat. I've always wanted. I hope I don't lose my coins in a boating accident. Keep up to good work, fellas. Love the show.

Yeah, I'm not going to suggest people go out to buy boat if you are. Maybe it's a good opportunity. everybody knows what boat stands for land boat stands for what you know i think i've told you before bust out another thousand that's what boat stands for you never want to be the guy yeah you don't want to be the guy who owns a boat you want to be the guy who knows the guy with the boat but uh you don't want to be the guy at the boat one of my uh college roommates deceased now unfortunately rip kyle god rest your soul buddy but i remember being on a boat with his father and him we were probably 20 at the time and uh we were going to this was in new

market. So whatever body waters are on New Market, one of these little bays. We were going to see his girlfriend's daughters. His daughters were our age, I think, a little younger and us, a little old than us. I hope Max's girlfriend's not listening to this because we were still together at the time. I was out there wild. And anyway, and I'll never forget. He was probably three beers deep. Kyle was driving the boat. And he goes, you know what boys? Women love boats. I'll never forget him saying that to me. I don't know that it's necessarily. true in all cases, but I do know chicks love being on a boat. That's a

sure thing. I thought you're going to bring up a Ray Emery story. No, Kevin, Kevin, what's that guy's name? The Shark Tank guy? His wife crashed the ball. Killed a guy. I shouldn't laugh at. Kevin O'Leary, yeah. O'Leary. Yeah. Maybe he was driving it. Maybe she was driving it. There's some controversy about that. Yeah, but there's no connection between that

Ray Amory. No, no, no, no. No. It's just mental illness, right? I think that's what caused that. Yeah, rest in peace. All right, Dave. Want to go right into it? Let's do some housekeeping first. I'll level with you, Len.

The reason I had an 8 o'clock stop is because I was going to go on Phil Bach's podcast at 8. And he couldn't do it tonight. So we're doing it on Friday. So Phil Bach, B, A, K, you may remember he was on this show before. He was the chair of the NASDAQ for a time. And we had him on, and I'll be on his podcast on Friday afternoon. Len and I are going to be on rock paper Bitcoin in a week next Saturday. Those guys, stick in the head, record at 8 a.m. Eastern on a Saturday.

So we're going to be there. Coffee, for me anyway, in hand and hopefully an empty bowel. And we're going to talk to Fundamentals and Business Cat about what's going on in their side of the world. Yeah, I think that's all the housekeeping. We have anything I plan on Wednesday this week? I don't know that we do or not. I talked to Twan on the weekend. Twan, when he's done his install to it.

is going to come to the studio here, CBPHQ. We're going to record something for everybody. He's got a lot to talk about on the mining side. Some great stuff that I just never considered. For a guy who's got such a polished product, he's always researching ways to make it better. And he wants to share what he's up to with everyone who's been patronizing him. You guys are buying tons of these miners.

I cannot recommend the miners enough. I've been running mine, Len, like so hot over the last few days with the window open in this room because it's been cold. unbelievable it's just so nice so nice the thing runs so efficiently even at like super high settings because it's starting to cool down it has been awesome so if you haven't got to talk to them for sure and series listening that he's in uh solo mining he's not in a pool where he's collecting sets every day because that would be wrong right and he hasn't obviously he hasn't yet solo mine and and sc uh i haven't i haven't maybe one day and if he does do that

of course he'll report you would know one of our listeners uh actually i will i will i will name him since he was on the show, Dr. Zerabian sent me a message the other day and he just got a minor from from Kwan and Tuan went over to his place and installed it and then a couple of weeks later, Len, or a week later, his furnace blew.

So guess what? He moved that minor to his kitchen and was able to stay comfortable in a time of distress. He's got a couple of kids and a wife and everyone was happy and while that minor was running and heating, he was hash and too. Can't beat it. Felony man, this is, you guys, once you see these things,

in your house, you're not going to think about anything else when it comes to mining. This is going to be the only thing that you care about. This isn't the segment where he blown, though. Like, it's later on the show when we do that. This is more fluffing right now. So, yeah. All right, let's hop, let's hop into some news.

Where do you want to say? Okay, the price. You mean, you want it with your price rent because that seems to be the big story of the day. Oh, yeah. I mean, I was doing a little research today, trying to confirm some things and think about some things And, you know, I just think people are reacting to the price movement in general because the fundamentals have not changed, if anything, they've gotten stronger. We're seeing, you know, on the cultural side from politicians all over the Western world, including here in Canada, which will be reinforced tonight in all likelihood in our budget vote.

There's a need. There's a necessity here for borrowing. And if you look at the 10-year rates here in Canada, they're starting to spike. What does that mean? It means that no one's going to be buying our debt on the market, but we will have to monetize it. So when people talk about printing QE, twist, whatever, like, that's what they mean. They mean central banks buying debt and monetizing debt. Now, that said, it's easy to look at the price and think, man, I missed the boat.

And like I tweeted today, you know, you and a lot of people, especially when we first started this show, a lot of people used to come onto this show or I would go on other shows and I would get messages. and we would look on Reddit, you know, when we were posting all our episodes to Reddit to try and, you know, gain some traction, show out to all caps for letting us do that, of course. The thing that I think a lot of people said at the time and aren't thinking about now is, man, I wish I had a chance to buy in 2017 at 3,000. Man, I wish I had a chance to buy in 2018 at 5,000. Man, I wish I had a chance to buy 2019 at 8,000. Man, I wish I had a chance to buy in 2020 at 3,000 during COVID, for months, by the way.

man, I wish I had a chance to buy at 20, 30, 40, 58, 58 again, 58 again, you know, and then it's 60, 7, I wish I had a chance to buy. This is your chance. This is when you should be raising your DCA. Is it true that you're going to have a harder time accumulating one Bitcoin now? For sure. Then you did at 2000? Of course.

We all were. We were all having a good time in 2020 and 2017. That was when corn was cheap. You had to get it back then. and the risks were much greater, and you're rewarded for those risks. Now, the only thing stopping you from buying corn and accumulating a serious, like, life-changing amount and life-changing position is whether or not you have the capital to do so as the economy enters what will probably be a nasty downturn.

If you do, great. I also want to point to one other thing, and you can maybe comment on this, and I'm sure you'll have a take. I think the four-year cycle is over. I think it's over because the ETFs are just providing. a floor that we've never seen. There's no doubt about this. ETFs, on average, since the day they were,

since the day they were started, are buying about a total of 2,000 Bitcoin a day. In the last three months, with the price down, they're still buying an average 2,000 Bitcoin a day. So while it is true that there's cell pressure coming, the floor for these things just continues to come up. And, you know, there is some technical analysis and, you know, crayon eaters out there who are talking about, wow, it's, you know, we got to see

a liquidity crunch. We got to see a cascading stop loss issue. We got to see a maybe that's true. Maybe we see another 20%, 30%, 50% from here. But I really do think the days of being concerned it's going to zero are over. And so if you believe that too, then why do you care what the price is between 125 and 25? Why do you care? What is the likelihood this thing trades at a million dollars US inside the next five years?

Is it 50%? I think it's at least that high. You're getting into territory here where the amount of money being spent on projects all over the world is going to just be astronomical. You're talking about a time when AI, a time when government and AI data centers, even if you don't like AI, let's just call it data centers, since there's going to be a need for these. Data centers, power producers, and governments all need to borrow money to do this stuff today. They're borrowing money to add industries that will eliminate their tax base. What do you think the borrowing is going to look like in five years, in 10 years, in 15 years? It's going to be a number that you can't even pronounce.

We have not conceived of the number yet. This is at a time when real estate is still in the trillions. M2, if you go down to M3, you're talking $150, $200 trillion. You don't need much of a push to get Bitcoin to a million dollars of coin. And the pressure, like we've said on this show over the years, is coming from everywhere. It's coming from the top. It's going from the bottom. It's coming from the sides.

You name it. Everybody is trying to force you into hard assets to protect your wealth. They're not telling you that, but the policies they're enacting you in that direction. So what are you worried about? You should be buying. I'm buying, Lenz buying, everyone should be buying.

Why would you not be buying right now? This is the opportunity that so many of you guys in this chat that I'm looking at and on Twitter and on other places over the last four years as we've watched the price

go from 5,000 to 125,000, people have been saying I wish I had the nuts to do it. Well, find the boys now, get a hold on them,

and hit the buy button. Because if you don't, you're going to regret it again in a few years. That is a promise. That is a promise. Are you hearing this? Talk about what's going on with Bitcoin.

The price is going down. I should start selling. Have you been hearing this type of talk? Yes. I don't know which ETF. Guys I follow. Every company companies you've been fucking hanging out with. Because none of them I fucking do is saying this thing.

Everybody is as bullish today as they were yesterday, six months ago, one year ago, five years ago. I honest, I have no idea who the fuck is not bullish today on this. who has confidence in fiat currency over bitcoin it's crazy you go point to that person i'm gonna say they're a fucking idiot because that's what they fucking are nobody could say yeah you know what the canadian dollar u.s dollar i have faith in this over bitcoin how the fuck could you say that you just zoom the fuck out you see what's going on this thing is it's gonna go boom one day maybe not tomorrow but it will go boom what the fuck it all by the way it always goes boom it's always gone every time it goes boom every time

even if it's if it goes to like 10k or whatever what a fucking number you just Armageddon yeah I'm still gonna fucking buy I'm not my mentality isn't going to change and think you know what maybe my Canadian dollar is going to hold value over the next few years no fucking way I don't like just it's whatever but there's

going to be look I don't know what the price is now 92 block was there you go 92k as I as I speak it's been a drawdown I fear there could be more why we have those miners out there they're going to feel pressure

they're going to continually to sell the ones that the marathons and shit like that they've been holding they may want to just liquidate and take advantage and that's going to be more

self pressure then let's talk about those treasury companies Bitcoin treasury companies some of them already selling yeah yeah micro strategy isn't

no talk about that in the moment he bought the most he's bought in a long time this week. So, I don't know. You know, making that what you will. I think there's commentary about Sailor that we've obviously, you know, pursued and explored on the show that I still feel pretty strongly about. But, you know, like the thing I would just tell people, again, and like the pressure is, the pressure to sell is going to be pretty consistent because

let's face it, you know who loves when you sell all your friends who don't own any? Your family who doesn't own any. They love when you sell. Oh, yeah, they fucking do. My buddies would, my buddies would, the group chat would explode if I started telling people that I was selling some Bitcoin to get out of the market or whatever. If you're average buy was say 25K and you're selling at 90K, how could any, and I wouldn't suggest this is a good thing to do, but how could anyone, you fucking made up the wrong decision for buying Bitcoin. But in that case, you know, you almost four X your money. Yeah. Like it's, you can't, you can't. So like, that's what I'm trying to get at.

Like, fuck them all. And I don't really don't care. And then there's all this fun that's being through. I don't know what the hell is causing this downward trend. The markets haven't taken this. Markets have been selling off. They have been selling off. They have.

Yeah. It's been pretty widespread. Yeah. Invidia earnings is this week, I think, right? Invidia earnings is, uh, is it Thursday? So, I mean, there's, there's, the thing about earnings now, especially with the mags is the the Meg's happens pretty much always beat or meat. The problem is, uh, is, uh, is, the problem is,

their guidance is starting to go lower? So when you have problems with guidance, that's when the market reacts negatively. And so far, I think a lot of these companies are saying, look, you know, we're not going to be beating by 50% anymore. And the thing I fear really about Nvidia is that Nvidia is basically holding up the entire global economy. Like, if invidia has a bad day, then we'll talk about a big drawdown. Then we're talking about 80k. Then we're talking about 70K. 58K gang, be warming up the cars. they'll be making the signs again getting the memes ready

Nvidia is really the thing that's holding up the entire global economy at this point which is nuts but hard to dispute that at this stage. Well you have this week too in this past week there was two fight events

and I think this might have had a small impact maybe a larger impact the whole Arkham research thing that's saying that Michael Miller they're selling Bitcoin and low IQ stuff you know like I don't know why Arkham and I even tweeted it like something to keep an eye on like these guys what have they been right about in the last little while we like we do a Bitcoin show presumably we'd be interested in seeing some of the reports that have proven out to be ripe I couldn't think of anything that we've actually looked at and thought yeah this is not only important but correct can you like going back even a few years I can't I cannot I cannot I couldn't tell you. I have no idea. So, I don't know.

They say, and it wasn't a small amount. It was 47,000 Bitcoin was number that was being thrown out. That's a fair of it. And they were to, oh, they didn't come out and say they're wrong, but somebody, Michael Saylor did. Now, let's, you know, yeah, we should point out what Tom is saying in the chat here. Dude's made a fortune on Polymarket from Saylor misinformation. I do think that's true. Polymarket, me and Mark were talking about it spike to like 75% or something that Saylor had sold Bitcoin. Was that the Delta one dude? Well, Delta 1 is one guy who tweeted it, but a bunch of accounts tweeted.

Zero Hedge, I think, had it. Walter Bloomberg, Delta 1 had it. A few other pretty significant accounts were tweeting that he sold and just wasn't true. It just was not true. It was not well researched, not well looked into, not anything. It went automatically to my mute list after that, though, Delta 1. So, you know, it just- These guys just tweet Bloomberg headlines all day.

You know, they don't do anything. There's no, you know, impact. statements from those accounts they just tweet whatever comes across to Bloomberg that seems relevant. You got to monetize the whatever you paid for that Bloomberg turn. What is it? 3K a month or something. No, 3K a month. 3K. What do you fucking have one?

We should get one. We should get one, yeah. Could I play do you want it? I got to look at the Trading View black market deal. Every year the Trading View black market deal comes up and everybody on my feed is like whether you just look at charts or actually use the charts to trade, the deal is just so good. that you'll find yourself on trading you way more

because of the functionality. Maybe this year we'll expense an account. See what we can come up with. We'll become quants. Well, there was one that, see that one quants that posted a Bitcoin is going to go to 200K in the next 30 days or something, the next 40. Yeah, the highest like you guy. You can count on seeing simply green candle, all the other slop accounts,

tweeting out split photos of the Bitcoin logo and this Chinese guy with 200. iq talking about how bitcoin's going to go it's amazing i love bitcoin twitter speaking of which wait to you see the thumbnails of the wait to see the ab testing thumbnails i'm going to use for this episode some of them are hilarious that i was having a buck and blast making thumbnails for this episode with the price in the tank you know there was another piece of fud that came out this week too yeah and it was the whole geoffrey abstein stuff and core bitcoin right uh bitcoin sorry, Bitcoin Core contributors, the fact that there's a connection over there.

And it came out this past week because the U.S. government released this information at their House Oversight Committee, right? Like, we wait for fucking years to get any sort of information. There's pictures floating around. You have this president campaigning. I'm going to fucking release this stuff on day one.

We're now on day what, like 300 and still nothing has been released. And what they are releasing is shit about Bitcoin developers and Jeremy Rubin and shit like that. Like, come on, man. Like, what the fuck? Like, is this, I'm wondering if this is a smear job against Bitcoin as a way to help, you know, drive down the price to show that there's a connection between Jeffrey Epstein and what he's done and Bitcoin core developers.

And Bitcoin core developers, they already got a lot of bullshit to deal with these days. But now you throw in this. Like, I'm just wondering if this is just, it's a calculated and it's a purposed smear campaign against Bitcoin. I don't know. it just it seems too much of a of a connection too much of a coincidence to me i look at this and you know throw this and got this this this negative this price action it's not helping things out right right then you got this the cp stuff they're talking that's being held on chain

you know do you want to see uh the funniest it's a fucking pervert if you're writing a node this is the funniest thing i've seen so far on um the epstein I've been following this guy Mars on Twitter for a long time. I don't know anything about him, but this video made me loud when I saw it a few days ago. This is good. Let me make sure you can hear the sound too. Hold on. Let me pull this down.

Pull this off. This is such a pain. I've made this mistake doing sip and rips so many times where I start doing it. And then I realize it's not catching any of the audio sound. Yeah. Okay. That should do it. Here we go.

you kidding me Epstein Funancore I'm not going to explain this at Thanksgiving really is all about CSAM always has been only way to protect yourself don't run a node leave it to the petos Jeffrey Epstein was Satoshi Nakamoto

I'm calling it now bookmarked you kidding me well they didn't disappear at the same time well it was a few years after Jeffrey Epstein was Satoshi Nakamoto It is funny to think about how the Americans

are going to explain that Epstein was a Bitcoin or Thanksgiving over a little over a little turkey and stuffing I love that

that's so funny Mars is funny boomers saying Mars is a real one he definitely has he has his quirks but he's pretty funny I would not be surprised

if there was any Bitcoin exchange during the whole island ordeal right as a way of moving money around without having it i wouldn't be surprised if bitcoin was a medium exchange at least with one transaction now it doesn't mean that bitcoin is tied to this type of bullshit no it's just it was just an easy way for somebody that's in a know that could easily move money around i i think that for sure there would have been something that would have been done but core developers and like fuck that man i i don't i don't buy this one right

What's the Polly Market on Epstein being Satoshi? Is there a betting market on that? Can somebody in the chat check that out, please? Let me know. We should create one. I'm not sure what's the mechanism to create something like this, but we should get a partnership with Polly Market? Is that, I don't think that.

Would that not pass the sponsor scruples that you have? No. What's the shit coin? Is a Pauley? Is that the shit coin you need to trade on? I don't think I don't think that have a token. I think I just use Stables. Oh.

Pretty sure. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. The only bet I've ever placed on Polly Market was for Paulyab to win the election and Mark did it for me. I don't know how he did it. Yeah, I don't know what to say.

Anyways. All right. Quick story here. I'm not sure if you follow the transaction fees in Bitcoin. It's gone down significantly. There's been a collapse in the price of, well, look at the fees. And I'm still telling people when you use bull Bitcoin to use on-chain. keep lightning on the side but do on chain for now because why fees are low but there's a problem

with this right there's and i think this is also going to be in hand with with the price of bitcoin going down it's going to be a collapse and profitability for mining if you're collecting very little in transaction fees and you're relying just on the reward and that reward and you know in nominal turns goes down because the price of bitcoin goes down it's going to make it harder to be profitable mining and they're going to have to either close shop or I don't know there's going to be systemic shift with respect to bitcoin mining if this trend continues and not just that what's going to happen moving forward if you're going to want to secure the network you're going to want incentivize somebody to mine and I didn't suggest everybody do this at home with your

256 heat miners of course to help secure the network but you know that that's only going to be a small portion of the overall thing. So I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem moving forward if things don't change. And if they do, then that's great. But if they don't, like, I don't know. I'm looking at this and this is not looking good. I don't know if you got any input on this.

I don't necessarily. I'm actually looking at Menpool right now. And it looks to me like the minimum is like a sat all the way across the board. But almost nobody's paying only a set. Some are even paying like a fraction of. Yeah. There's a lot

There's a lot that are fewer, but there's also a bunch that are higher, too. Like I'm seeing, especially with the higher amounts, people are willing to pay a bit more per V-byte. But it's the people that are associated with Epstein. They want to move it to- They got to get out. They got to get out. They can't wait for blocks. They don't pay whatever. You got to get in the next block.

Yeah, before they find out that me and Stephen Hawking were there together. I, you know, we've talked about the mining thing a lot over the years. And I continue to think, and I've said on this show and other shows I've been on. And actually, I plan on having a slide about mining. maybe two slides about mining at my World Outlook Conference presentation in a few months, it needs to be more decentralized. Like, mining should be something that all the users of Bitcoin are doing, not industrial miners. And so the pressure for miners is not going to be, we need to shut off the machines and close up shop.

This is why these guys are getting into HPC, because they're going to switch their firepower over to something that makes them money on a more. predictable basis than Bitcoin. And it's funny, you know, we talked about in the past, as I roll a yoga ball around here, trying to keep my knee loose, we talked about in the past how, you know, miners are always for sellers. But the longer we allow industrial mining to proliferate, the worse it'll get. So don't you want to see like a minor blow up now, like a broad minor blow up now or a broad minor switchover? over to AI or data now, as opposed to seeing it in 10 years or five years, like, I kind of just want to pull the band-aid off, you know? Because it is clear that the miners are going to go this direction anyway. So why don't they just all do it soon? You might actually see them do it over the next fair market, right? Like, the companies that have done successfully, Iron is the poster boy. Iron is like a rocket ship in terms of its stock price. I haven't looked at it in last week or two, but it's done incredibly well. And part of that, part of that, part of

the reasons. I think they've been agile and gotten away from Bitcoin mining as a predominant, as the predominant messaging around their business. So I expect to see that continue. The Sats per V-by thing is also reflective of monetary network use. Let's face it, you know, if lightning is the thing that people are using, great. But I'm not convinced that's the case either. So we got to find out what's happening here with transactions and monetary use cases and all this stuff. But I don't, for now I'm not concerned, but I will be concerned in two or three years if it still looks like that for sure. Well, in a few halvings, you're going to be very much concerned. It's not even just forget the mining reward. Like the mining reward is one thing. But think about

how if the price per, if the price per transaction is still low, then that means people don't value the Bitcoin. People are not asking for the Bitcoin because it's not about your willingness to spend it. Nobody wants to spend the good money. The question is, when do you have to spend it? Because it's the only thing people accept. And that's got to start accelerating in the next few years. If it doesn't, and there's a conversation on chain, it's really not something people should do because it's not just the time, but the fees involved. There's other options you could use that.

I mean, looking at lightning, that is far better for doing transactions. But we're saying ETFs too is going to, you know, negatively impact that. Maybe. But that if you, that's to do with just buying it and holding it. If you're talking about transacting in it, an ETF doesn't do that. you can't even fucking redeem in an ETF

well actually there's one you can't right up yeah yeah I think about it but you might who knows

what the qualifications they may add more I don't know what the story is there I haven't been following that

closely but with respect to the Bitcoin like who cares whom Bitcoin mines and you know

what I'm thinking about the ones that have energy that is just stranded it's probably those are the ones that are most

likely and I don't have all the information here maybe I'm talking out of my ass but I think that the way

they're probably more inclined to Bitcoin mine then use that energy to pump data centers. I think data centers, I thought data centers would have to be closer to building it up. You'd have to take longer time.

There's more capital. You have to have quick low latency internet, lots of bandwidth shit like that. For Bitcoin mining, you could be very agile. You could just throw up to that. Not really. No, I disagree. No, because jurisdictionally, the laws prevent Bitcoin mining.

They don't prevent AI. Right. So there's a, there's a push now all over the place. We're seeing it in Canada, which is the most, maybe the most difficult energy jurisdiction of all of the modern democracies, save for some of these, you know, retarded EU countries. This is one of the most difficult jurisdictions to operate in if you're a Bitcoin minor. But as a data and AI player, now you're starting to see the government become more amenable to that. And so that I think that's the standard energy, though. Well, is this something that is in northern, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Is it something that is in northern Alberta, which you're far away. from anywhere that could actually use it or you could even go if you want to use a different why can't why can't a data center use it i don't know i think you you can use it as long as

the infrastructure is there to be set up i just the way i always envision it and that could be wrong just get those i forget who steve barber what does he sell how shots how shots i think it's just easy to slap one down or slap a bunch down next to an oil field and go from there. Is there the equivalent for AI centers for data centers? I don't know. And if nothing doesn't exist, then that's why those stranded energy, anything that's stranded energy is probably more inclined to mine Bitcoin. How do you, okay, let me ask something. How do you, how do you make mining the most inviting use of the time it takes you to navigate the stranded energy, you know, procurement bureaucracy? Because you're going to have to go through a process.

us anyways. So how do you make mining the thing that makes people want to do it? Because right now I don't, I just don't see that as being the case. It's hard to get the miners. You have to reload all your hardware every four years, basically to stay competitive. Why would you have to reload hardware every four years? Having, you got to upgrade your, you got to add your firepower. So how it could be every two years. Well, whatever. And it could be like it's a lot of Cappex. It's a lot of Cappex. Where AI, those chips are more easily produced, right? They're not as specialized.

Like the H1,000s or H2,000s from Nvidia, you can get them, I don't want to say easily, but easier than you can get fucking ant miners, right? Do you know that if you could put on one of those trailers that have all the equipment and just put this on? That I don't know. And that's why I said. I claim ignorance in that. I do know what you can with Bitcoin mining.

So somebody would have to pull it a chart. and look at okay right now we're earning zilch on this stranded energy we're either flaring it we're vent or we're burning it or whatever but we could combust it and with that we could make some make some money from that now it how much is the money you talk to you mentioned a good thing there uh very the capx it's very costly so where's the break even point and you're like that and then you have to deal with the halvings every four years on top of that and that's going to decrease your um how much you're going to earn and then you're you also have the price volatility of bitcoin

somebody's look at this you know what this thing is instable and so we can't really predict what's going to happen moving forward yeah i don't know i uh i don't really give a shit who to fuck mind bitcoin if they want to do it fine i think our preferences are aligned that i'd rather see more broad mining at different levels like you got a like i got a bitax i got a you know 256 heat unit i got whatever i'd rather see that than another pop-up. But the big problem, though, is that

now, like, if you look at the open AI story from the last week or two, I didn't cover this in Sip and Rip, but I thought about covering it. It's just too long to really get into on a show like that. You know, these guys are asking basically for governments to take a strategic interest

in the infrastructure. And they're saying it's energy infrastructure now, but soon it will be hardware infrastructure too under the guise of national security. And they may be correct. You know, that may not be a bad, bang that governments need that. Like I said, I've kind of softened my opinion on that over the last

month or two. But the question then becomes like do governments, governments who take a stake in the name of national security into AI data centers or other HPC use data centers, are they ever going to let those guys mine Bitcoin? Like what would be the rationale for a government to say, yeah, we want you to, we want to have a 10% stake in your data center, 10% stake in your company. And you're also going to be allowed to mine Bitcoin when the price and the financial incentive warrants it when it makes sense. You're going to be able to pivot here and there. I don't think that's true. But it seems to me like these guys need money and they're going to get it from the government here, U.S., everywhere else. And that's another

roadblock, you know. It's another issue with the incentive structure and the laws around some of this stuff that are better somehow still in Canada coming, they're becoming more and more tight as opposed to the opposite, which is what we're seeing in the States. Oh, we have, I'm not sure if, like, the Paris Agreement also has to, there's a lot of moving parts here that we have to deal with. We have to deal with. Not every government has to deal with them, but we have to deal with them. No, correct.

It says a Canadian, when I say we, it's just, you know, the nation does. And so, and you also have a government that is more inclined to deal with, and to lean towards climate change and energy efficiency and alternative energies and renew. renewables and stuff like that. So take that all into consideration. Canada is probably not going to be a major player with Bitcoin mining at all moving forward. I think that it's just... Which is terrible because the climate here is so friendly to Bitcoin mining.

It's the cold, right? But we just refuse to do it. We refuse. Yeah. Whatever. It's fine. I got my heater. You got your heater.

You guys in the chat have your heaters. All you can do. Yeah. You talked about this a few times of slow money stuff, right? Harvard University. Yeah. They bought way more. of Bitcoin's

I love that term I'm in I can't remember where I heard that or if I made it up I don't know but I love it yeah I mean

I don't know if you want to talk about it it was another almost five million shares of Ibit they're buying they're all buyers land

like are you not are you not like a convert to the importance of the ETFs in the price no I don't give a shit about it's it's asking

for it's saying that I'm happy the price is going up because there is a Pandora's box that's been opened. My wife's here.

Let's welcome my wife who doesn't want to be on camera. Hello, hello. She's going to pottery. I got to take the baby monitor. Thanks. You don't want to say anything? Do you know what the price of Bitcoin is?

I asked her with the price that. She said super low. That's what I've been sitting around the house all day. Price is way down. We're going to have to go to the food bank soon. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry, continue. Yeah, so to go back to what I

does it, I mean, when I'm happy to eat, I don't really give a shit. I mean, it's opening up Pandora's box, as I said and I can't cheer for it because it's raising the price of Bitcoin that's not really nobody's using Bitcoin the way it's not even fucking Bitcoin it's fucking totally fee

people people think that this is an act by you by the way when I went to the conference people are like does Len really hate like do you guys really just play do you guys play good cop bad cop on the show or is Len I said no man Len is like hardcore I don't get look the ETS I don't give a shit it exists

I give a shit that people are saying this is I'm going to buy it and they're like all you're doing anybody that does this is you're justifying the use of fiat because you're using a fiat system you're using the fiat everything to do with fiat to do it bitcoin if you look at all the properties that come along from it you're stripping all the good qualities of bitcoin except for one which is and i don't even know there's a property is the number go up that's it there's no scarcity with ets you can't hold it yourself you can't verify it. You can't move it across border. There's so many fucking good things

about Bitcoin to make Bitcoin, what people want to buy it, and an ETF isn't it. So, all the more power for Harvard for buying it. I hope they get rugged one day because, you know, they're obviously going to use a custodial for this shit, right? Who the fuck's, who's their brokerage? Like, you know,

who does I bet hold the Bitcoin with, by the way? I mean, I don't even know. Is it fidelity? It's got to be fidelity. Fucking get just rugged all, man. Let's just fucking You just want to see this whole thing burn. Let's set it on fire. Let's burn the underbrush here and then get back. Yeah, start from scratch.

You know, and this is what you have to get this. Every few years, you know, remember we went through the, the NFT craze and then that was the best. Remember we did a segment on Pachy McCormick talking about how squiggle NFTs were going to be the new thing? What a retard. What a retard. And it's bullshit.

And everybody knew it was bullshit, but people still bought into it. And people got wrecked. And once they got wrecked, they realized, oh, shit, there's something better. I could actually hold my own keys with Bitcoin. And now you're going through the same fucking exercise with Bitcoin treasury companies. Oh, I could buy into this. I'm going to make fucking bank. It's going to go 10x.

No, you're down 99% in some cases. Like, if you look, I think a NACA was, is 99. NACA, by the way, in trouble for another reason because it looks like they didn't get their SEC filings in on time. Like, that's disastrous, man. I tweeted that today. You can look at my timeline for that story. gotta dig into that maybe for sip and rip this weekend but but a lot of companies are related yeah i know but like they're in big trouble i think they're in big trouble over there

it looks like it to me they're gonna start selling and then you're gonna have the added fucking self-pressure to bitcoin but what i'm trying to get at my original point is all this shit is just it's something else that it it's bitcoin adjacent in a fucking shit can and you just you just fucking leave it alone let somebody else get wrecked because when they do they realize Oh shit, I should have just went and fucking held Bitcoin all along and that was the right thing to do. What do you make of this comment here? There's a few people in the chat. I'm not going to say your names because for whatever reason YouTube now has your ad handle instead of your screen name.

But a boomer sums it up here pretty well. This, you know, SH burner in there too talking about it. Using your TFSA to DCA into an ETF isn't a bad play. If you pull the money out to buy on shame, you have a big UTXO. And then burner saying that the TFSA and RSPs are good use cases for the ETF. This is ultimately the, this is ultimately. at the core of the discussion. This is where we have a fundamental disagreement that's irreconcilable. It's 100% fiat. If you believe, if you have total confidence in the system, do it.

Why do you need Bitcoin at all then, right? Yeah. Correct. Why I buy Bitcoin is my confidence in the system. It continues to wane every day. And for me to buy something like that, I have to believe in the currency. I got to believe in the brokerage house. I got to believe in my bank. I believe in all these fucking things that could go wrong. And then I don't want to do that. I'd just rather just buy my own Bitcoin. I understand I'd have to pay cap gains. I understand all the bullshit that goes along with holding Bitcoin. But you know what?

I have it. It's mine. And there's so much good that comes along with. Like, I don't have to fucking talk about the greatness of Bitcoin what it is. Everybody knows what it is right now. Can I strip away to good qualities? Yeah.

Can I ask you what, at what point, if the ETS become redeemable for on chain, are you in then? No. I'm still out. So I'm going to, I'm going to, first. What is the line? Help me with the line. Show me.

That I will be happy for the ETFs. Yeah. There is no line. Oh. Why? So I have to keep my money in Fiat. I have to leave it in a bank. I have to move that money to, like, wealth simple or whatever.

And then I have to have them buy Bitcoin with, sorry, by the ETF, which will then buy Bitcoin with that. And then they're going to store my big. There's so many fucking things along the chain that could go wrong. and then when I want to get my money say I want you know thing is fucking collapsing

I need my money ASAP I got to sell I got to wait for that money to go to my bank and I have to go get that money out of my bank and we've seen enough times

you have to talk to the foreign worker at the teller desk yeah that too we've seen enough fucking evidence to show why the money is not yours why you get some pushback in the chat here

I'm not going to put all the comments up but you're getting some pushback in the chat I don't give a shit in the end I can sleep good at night and I don't give a fuck what people do but if you ever get burned you're gonna see me laughing on the side of the road

and say look at that fucking fire over there look at that's a fucking accident that's a fucking disaster and I'll be enjoying things do what you want but I have you know no faith in this oh man it's Singapore daughter wedge baby nice one nice one all right or do you want to go next

Where else we go on? Even, you want to know that we're at the top of the cycle, I think. And so on the way down is CPP bought $80 million of MSDR. Amazing. Amazing. Like that, what do you, what can you say? Are they, so CPP famously underperforms, friend of the show, millennial moron, talks about this a lot.

We've talked about it on the program too. That was the impetus for getting him on because we, I was thinking about this. And he had already put out a couple of great videos and put out a few more. after we got together on CPP. They underperform everything. They don't do the due diligence, and they bought a bunch of MSCR. Now, one of two things is probably true here.

Either they want the Bitcoin exposure or they think that it's going to hit the S&P. And I think both things could be true or both things could be false. I don't know, but I think one of those things is probably the reason. It does give me pause, though, that a pension fund that has underperformed

even its own suboptimal benchmark is buying stocks that are pretty important for the price of Bitcoin long term. So, yeah, I have my doubts about this. I don't love it. I don't love it. What else is in that release? Did you look at the rest of them?

No, I just saw this. And this came very late in a day for me that I saw this. I didn't have much time to investigate. But I think I'm looking at this, I'm thinking, my God, we're in for a real fucking downward trend. If the CPP, the Canadian pension plan, it's purchasing MSTR. Fuck, man.

It's going to be like 20K by next week. That's 20K. Yeah, Bitcoin Treasuries, Bitcoin Treasuries.net saying it, I got to look and see, yeah, it's funny. I got to look and see what else they bought. Yeah, it's not great. That's not great. I don't think that's good, that's not a good omen.

You're right. That's bad. It's like seeing a black cat. Yeah, start thinking about what you're going to do next. and let's talk about another top of the cycle moment leap therapeutics previously they were LPTX on the NASDAQ and they have been rebranded to Cypher Punk Technologies Inc with a new ticker CYPH also on the NASDAQ

and you might be knowing where this is going they're going to be a treasury company but there's a twist with that right okay tell me not going to be a Bitcoin treasury company no, no, no, they're going to be a fucking Z-cash treasury company top of this cycle. Yeah, we got to sell. We got to end this stream.

I'm getting all my hardware wallets from all over the place, and I am getting ready to sell. I got to sell. Liquidate. Remember not too long ago that companies were even buying NFTs? We laughed about this. Remember they're buying World of Women NFTs for their treasury?

Yes. That's the one, right? That was the bottom of the top? That was probably about that was like the 609. That was top, man. That was tough. right this is like i wondering how those purchases went by the way like i mean what do you mean how to we're going to fucking zero right oh my god i love it so by the way breaking breaking news here

budget 2025 passes the vote len 170 to 168 so a few people more than a few people abstained oh yeah sounds like the whole nDP caucus abstain right or we're wrong pretty tough green the green party agreed to vote for it not great man not great buy bitcoin Canadians are going to need it more than most I think over the next no buy an ETF you know that it's going to be covered

and the bank when you go to the bank to get it they have that money to give it to you do you think if you sell your Bitcoin for fiat the bank would give it to you like what are you you're playing on using it obviously you're not playing on selling it to fiat then using it okay yeah sure all right yeah there's

at least for me there's no point everybody's different. I have no use to sell it for Fiat because then I'd have to spend it immediately is I'd rather just use that to buy whatever. Yeah. That's my goal. Crypto dad in the chat telling me we can meet

and talk blockchain, bro, I don't want to talk blockchain. No, I would love to talk blockchain with your crypto dad. Yeah, let me know. I mean, we can meet somewhere maybe in Burlington or something like that. I'll be more than happy to chill out with you. Oh, no. Oh, no. Crypto dead. If you want to, we'll have a nice chat about.

this crypto this blockchain stuff i'm curious but let me know what you put on the blockchain is i mean it might interest me let's talk about another i got scam post that was tossed up on the bitcoin subreddit and i shake my head every time i read this type of shit and it's not like we have enough resources out there to learn from examples and how to avoid being scam but this motherfucker didn't but here we are he's an innovator this guy he's outside kingston crypto dad you know what if you want to take the trek out here west of course i'm not going to pay for anything i'm going to pay for myself and you pay for you'll be more than expense cvp's not not lucrative enough to expense uh guests travel yet

anyway let's talk about this guy you got scam no no we'll meet it to the tim horton's nearby and back to the guy that got scammed and uh it's another free less for people out there that want to learn and free education so thank you to his stupidity he goes by the name of on reddit fresh man's one m a and s one so fresh man's one you want to check it out and he writes i was such an idiot the scammers mask their numbers number as the police i know i shouldn't have put my seed phrase on the website for fuck sakes i was just caught up in the moment they were so convincing the second caller claimed that they were from coin cover got me to type my scene phrase

into a fake ledger website looking back I was so stupid if someone was telling me that this story I would think that what an idiot to do this just a warning. So basically he's lost everything he obviously is a moron

it looks like he is a ledger user right because his email was somewhere online he believed this was a ledger website so I assumed he had some Bitcoin maybe some shit coins and yeah um what can i say this stuff it's you know it's fucking nuts like just be very careful right like i don't know i never never put your seed phrase anywhere but never beyond that never a phone call

never anywhere ever look ever we got to blame ledger for something here because they held on to these emails and it was leaked so i i would like to get some clarification maybe an apologies from ledger maybe the the what ledger did podcast too could give an apology as well that podcast is defunct now it's defunct they don't i don't think they sponsor uh what bitcoin did anymore finally they made well because what's his base bailed uh McCormick bailed so you know I think that's probably enough to not do it anymore so this guy I did some searching on his posts it looks like he was a younger guy trying to start his life because he was posting a review of shopping for a wedding ring, right?

And so, I hope for his sake, I hope his wife is real and not AI generated content by some scammer trying to get access to a speed of

If he fell for this, maybe his wife is not real. Oh no. I also want to point, he seemed like he fucked up. This isn't the, not the first time he fucked up.

The first time he fucked up and I got a good credit, it looks like he fixed it. He said he was spent all his inheritance from his lost parents on drugs and booze. And so then he said he finally cleared up his act after many years. So it looks like this guy was living

a hard life. Yeah. And he made some poor decisions along the way. And this is another one. I sympathize with the story, the recommendation story. But yeah, it's tough. I hope he doesn't turn back to the poison. But so nobody out there. Nobody should enter in their 12 or 24 words on a website. If anybody calls

you thinking, you think it's the pleas, you think it's IRS, CRA, whatever. a fucking... They are not going to ask for your word. To, like, tell them to come to your house. Is that not a default response? No. I've seen this a million times.

No, like, if the police want to talk to you on the phone, oh, you say, if you want to talk to me, come to my house or I'll come to the station, but we're not talking on the phone. That should be the, like, I think that's been the case for a long time because there's been a lot of, I mean, non-crypto-related cop scams over the years. And I always kind of knew that that was what the, um, the recommended course of action was right but i guess this guy just not thinking and tough tough to see tough to see let's talk about last story wolf capital CEO Travis ford this guy's going to prison for five

years and the problem for him is that while he was running according to the DOJ a fraud scheme and he was promising investors returns up to 574% annually I don't know. I mean, that's a red flag right away, but I know. So Wolf Capital Crypto Trading, it was a crypto company raised almost $10 million from 2,800 investors. That's an average of 3,300 per person. And between January, 2023 and August 2023, he promoted this scheme where he was able to deliver returns of about 1 to 2% per day. it's not a lot

well I can see why Warren Buffett stepped down as a CEO what was Bernie Madoff's return not even close to this right what was what does Warren Buffett tried to get from his company

or was did he have like a goal of was like 5% a year whatever it is like I can see why he had to step down because this guy offering one or two percent per day Buffett cannot fucking compete his record is trash

as a result this guy at Ford he did with every any scammer would do he diverted the investor funds to benefit himself and his buds and it sounds a bit like these Bitcoin treasury companies if you ask me

and how their executives are raping and pillaging the company at the expense of shareholders but I digress Ford is he pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud 60 months in prison in order to pay $1 million is that a long enough sentence you think a lot of lives

impacted by that no you know it kind of feels like it's a little light I think what did the samurai guy get samurai guy got five years too right yeah he did so maybe we have a floor here you could scam people what did the CZ get it was like six months or less right

yeah he's got a lot of firepower that guy I'm not surprised you didn't fucking Trump came to with the bat for him and decided to pardon him didn't even know what the fuck he is I like this guy what the fuck is he by the way officials that's where he was but good guy

A lot of people tell him he's a good guy. Well, yeah. What's that crypto dude? I want to fucking have a shot with him. Crypto dad is at the local Tim Morton's now. He's running a blockchain. Boomer is not far from him. I hope Boomer goes to see him.

Boomer's a missionary out there, pun intended. Okay, let's talk about the other side of the news coin here. We are going to break on audio until tomorrow. And we will see the rest of you guys in a second. on the video side, live. There's a couple hundred people watching this, and all of you are on Twitter. Go to YouTube and join the chat. The chat is buzzing.

It'll be more fun for you on YouTube than it will be on Twitter. So don't be shy. Head over there and enjoy the community, the CBP community, which we've built brick by brick over the last five years. Anyway, we'll see what we see. Don't be an ETF investor.