The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Bitcoin Has an MSTR Problem | The CBP 243 Pt 1

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESAnother MONSTER crash in Bitcoin - why did the price crash, and what's next? Can MSTR survive this? Is MSTR SELLING Bitcoin? Let's find out.Plus Texas acquires Bitcoin for the treasury, Tether gets a brutal rating, and fake news against Trump allies SPIKES in the US.___Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord:   / discord   A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - https://easydns.com EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.256Heat -⁠ https://256heat.com/ ⁠ GET PAID TO HEAT YOUR HOUSE with 256 Heat. Whether you're heating your home, garage, office or rental, use a 256Heat unit and get paid MORE BITCOIN than it costs to run the unit. Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.

for that but they're really treating it like a threat and one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody bitcoin and one of the things that can be attacked is the etf can't be exposed to that that's my view it's not a good idea and by the way that'll hit mshtr too it'll probably hit other stuff as well friends and enemies welcome back canadian bitcoiners podcast friends and enemies welcome to the CBP want to be better informed listed to levin joey spots is taking care off right off the top old bitcoin and easy dns the media That's feeding a slop. It doesn't matter what topics discussed.

Quality entertainment and information you can trust. That's being planned or at least discussed. You know, we're not going to allow people to buy this. You can trust. Send the guys some value. Boost them with some stats. Bitcoin is a scarcity. As a mean, it's just a fact.

Geopolitical national down to the local cloud. Friends and enemies just when you thought we couldn't go any lower. We find a new way to tank. my name is Joey, that's Len. Welcome back to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast

where we'll never talk about how much Bitcoin you need to retire but I'll tell you more than it was last week and more than it was week before that. What's going on?

No, no, no. The week before that was just about where we are right now. Oh, we went. Yeah, like we were as low as what, 79 at one point? You said we get up.

I don't know. I don't know. Like 86. I'm happy with, I'm happy with any price. Because then it's a good, right? Lowest,

lowest bar participant. lowest borrow market participant on this on this stream i prefer to go lower so i could continually stack and reach my goal to get to 0.1 bitcoin and i'm getting there slowly but surely and maybe i'll reach there in 2025 only have about a few weeks left to go joy did you reach your stacking goal for 2025 uh i don't usually set a stacking goal but i you know my dca runs my my bunch buys run um the usual i guess i don't know i don't really think much about it these days do you Do you have a stocking goal every year? Yes.

Do you? Wow. Okay. We won't talk about it on the air, but I didn't know. Well, like I tell you, I thought it was just a show gimmick. I wasn't sure. No. 0.1 is what I want to achieve as my not, you know, my total holdings.

But fuck, man, it's hard to get there because like everybody said in this space, that's retirement money, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like if that was Fiat, what would that be the equivalent of like $10 million, $5 million USD? $0.001 Bitcoin? No, what is retirement money? money in Fiat terms. Oh, God, who knows?

These days, uh, is it 5 million U.S. 10 million probably? Five million. That's, so 0.1 equals 5 million USD. That's the going rate, according to those fuckers. Let's, uh, let's talk about the sponsors, easy DNS. The best place for you to, I don't know, spend what little money you have left if you need a website or a domain or you want to just do some virtual private server stuff. Mark's got your back.

I did a, uh, live read for, yes. EasyDNS on Sip and Rip, and I completely changed the read. And I wish I had remembered what I said, because I kind of liked it. Hold on. I can play on my phone, and you don't have to do a thing right now. I won't do that. Listen, Mark is a guy who's been a friend of the show for a long time. EasyDNS is a great company.

They've been around for decades at this point. And the track record is undisputed. And I think if you're looking for any of these services, including stuff, by the way, like Easy Mail and Domasure in a world where literally, literally everyone in the third world suddenly has an internet connection and is gunning for your data and your client's data, you need this stuff. And for a couple of bucks, Mark's got your back. Actually, a listener of the show then just told me the other day that he started a small business with Easy DNS, which is great. And Mark, to his credit, Mark is one of the busiest guys I know. And Mark told this fella

that if you ever had any questions, just reach out. He'll take care of him. How about that? Can you reach out to Toby Lutkey at Shopify and get some questions answered? No, you can't. But you can reach out to Mark Jeff DeVic and he will help you. So go over to his DNS. Use the promo code CBP media and get half off your first round of buys. You can't beat it. You can't beat it. Who's next?

Bull Bitcoin. Look, I buy from bold Bitcoin. I don't sell, but I could if I wanted to enjoy buys from Bull Bitcoin. He could sell, but he doesn't want to at this time. Actually, maybe he's selling. I don't think so, though I don't want to speak for him. Either way, buy on chain, you could do it. Lightning fees are still very, very low.

So on chain buys are still the thing to do. This recent price drop gives people an opportunity to do the auto buys daily. You get a limit order if you hit a particular price. So this is a non-custodial exchange. Not many. I don't think another one does. Has the recurring buys, auto buys, limit orders, right? I don't think any.

They're the only one. They're the only one does that, right? They have your privacy in mind. Your stuff gets mixed before it gets sent to you. You could pay bills with them. You could send if you have to pay somebody and they want fiat currency. Well, with Bull Bitcoin, you could then send your Bitcoin to Bull Bitcoin, and they send your buddy, the Fiat currency, e-transfer.

Lots of different options you could do with them. They are the best in the game when it comes to buying, probably selling, but I never sold, so I can't say that they're the best in the game. I'm going to assume they are, but either way, they're number one in my hearts. I love them. I'm going to continually use them, and you should too. Use a referral code below if you have not. If you do that, then all your buys and sales, moving forward will be a little bit cheaper

for the rest of your life. So what heck are you waiting for? You can't beat that. Uh, housekeeping, or do you, what do you usually do boost or housekeeping first? I guess we do boost first. We'll do the boost. Yeah, do the boost. Sure.

God's Death. And he writes in for 237 Sats. Thank you, sir. You're welcome, sir. Yeah, I was going to say he's really writing my reply for me there. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir.

Yeah, okay. Thank you for the Sats. Moabt C. Dick, 350, our guy. Our guy. Him and Jared. always like they're constants and God's deeds too lately either way thanks for covering the tough topics joey thumbs up that's with respect to your sip and rip from not yesterday the week before that shit if you thought two weeks ago was a tough topic no no you should hear yesterday's yesterday's

was brutal one eight days ago yeah okay i don't even remember what i talked about eight days ago but yeah i try it's becoming a cultural commentary show which is what i wanted kind of the the quick currents to be but the quick currents there's too many stories for me to spend 15 minutes talking about one thing a lot of the time. So I prefer this format. And I might do it live. It was pretty well attended. There was like 50, 60, 70 people, I think yesterday. So if people want to do Sunday night's dreams, like, I don't mind. It saves me from doing it in the morning when my voice is kind of hoarse and I'm worried about needing to take a second shit after a coffee. So you're taking a second shit. Just do it. We have the, at CBP, we have

the gear to record anywhere, any time, including in the washroom. So be advised. If you think that we won't do it. We will do it. If the screen turns black and you hear some noise in the background. If you hear the jet, if you hear the jet, the bidet, then you know that, yeah. Hammertown, oh, gee, he's another one that writes in pretty often. And I don't want to exclude him from this. 2,500 stats, he writes, he sends to us, in quotes, immigration of the fruit pickers, end quote, started as a seasonal agricultural workers program,

another liberal program in 1966. LMIA uses government printed money to fund TFWs and drive away meaningful skilled work, skilled labor in every sector, not just agriculture. This government continues to print money, devalue our currency, and suppress wages. Fight back by Bitcoin. Keep up the great work, fellas. I appreciate that comment as I stick my retainer back in. You have to deal with the list now. You know what?

It's interesting. I was going to talk about the Nokia plant. That's been a story in the news last little while. the press has been really pushing this. Nokia chooses Canada, blah, blah, blah, blah. One thing that goes underreported a lot of the times are the similarities between deals like the Stalantis deal, the Nokia deal, and stuff like LMIAs. The reason I say that is because LMIAs and TF, I think it's just LMA is actually not TFWs, but LMIAs are subsidized by the government at some level. I don't know exactly what. But the same way that you see in LMIAs these subsidies

landing for employers, you also see this for Nokia. And actually, Toby Lukie, who I took a shot at earlier, he's very much on our side when it comes to this, talking about how this Nokia deal is just a taxpayer money bribe to bring in a company that will hopefully hire Canadians, but it doesn't have to. But in any case, we'll have the employment subsidized. It's a net loss is what it is. There's no actual draw here except for the money coming from the taxpayer coffers. It's a shame. And there's quite a bit of similarity between these two, we'll call them employment streams, though I'm sure there's a better term for that. Anyway, you may see something about that in the future for me.

I don't know if I have the sort of wherewithal to research it. And if something is current, then maybe I'll do it. But at the end of the day, I'm glad to hear people in our comments and in our booth talking about this. It's very important to understand that these things are going on. Jair writes in for 5,000 sets. Jare. Another comment. He's always said.

Jer is in the rock paper Bitcoin chat, and I think he's also in the sound coffee chat. Jerry, you can correct me if I'm wrong. I'm seeing these people everywhere, man. I'm seeing them everywhere. That's another podcast run by fundamentals. Yeah. And he writes in, looking forward to the CBP-RP extravaganza. It was a blast that show.

We'll talk about that in a bit. Yeah, I mean, actually, I guess we can talk about it now. We're in housekeeping. We have one more. Okay, let a rip. Let it rip. Let it rip. Let's go. Bitcoin mentor, 21,000 sats. Nathan Fitz. Joy, God bless you, buddy. Listen to this one. This one is.

Is it about thumbnails? It's going to be about thumbnails. Here to CBP, the only thing we love more than spreading self-sovereignty is grade A top shelf pleb slop. I'm reading this. Don't blame me for this. There's no better place to get your daily dose than over at BTC sessions. Breaking! Your thumbnails are fire, fire emoji. So head over and hit the trough. Trust me, you won't regret it.

I think Nate is the one who finally convinced me. I haven't told him this, but he convinced me to start using this template for the thumbnails. I think you mean in a position where we can do like some comedy slop. Like today's thumbnail, did you see it? No. It's Michael Saylor and his eyes are blacked out and it says pour across them. And then in the background, there's three laughing Peter shifts like transparent. And top bandage says like Bitcoin crash or Bitcoin, Bitcoin wipeout or something, I forget.

But yeah, I got to say, I laugh making them. And Nathan and the open source podcasting telegram chat with has like me, Walker, Ben, said Youngman, Joe Consorty, a few other people. I think I'm probably missing some people there. But it is pretty funny the way, because those guys are way deeper than we are into it. Like, you should hear them talk about YouTube metrics I've never looked at once in my life. So this is all tongue and cheek, right? Because I, I, our thumbnails are, you know, our thumbnails are not slop. You would hear it from our listeners if they thought our thumbnails were becoming slop,

but we will never, we'll never go that direction. They will be funny, though. I am learning how to use Canva a little more all the time and I'm, I'm having fun with it for sure. So thanks for that. That's it for the boost. A lot of boost this week. So thank you very much for all of them.

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. And fundamentals, if you are listening to this, stop, fucking streaming us. Just send us a boost. That's the better bank for the buck. I just want to say that one more time. I had a blast with Fundies and Business Cat on Saturday morning. That was a really fun episode where, you know, I don't know about you, but I like being on the other side of the interview now more than I did, I don't know, two or three years ago. It feels like it's a bit of a break and you get to be steered in a direction where someone wants you to go. And I think those guys

did it well for me and you. Especially because me and you have differing opinions. on a lot of stuff. So I really enjoyed it. That's what makes for a good show. If you just have two people that are just, you know, agreeing with each other, it's great and all, but let's be honest, you have to have some head bashing. You have to have some contrasting opinions. So knows, maybe one person is right, one person's wrong, or both people are right or both people are wrong.

Yep. Those are all the options, right? I agree. It was really, it was really fun talking to those guys. If you guys haven't listened yet, go over to the Brock Paper Bitcoin. feed and peep that. And also you should be in their telegram. Their telegram is pretty active.

I love a good active podcast chat, even though I don't participate in my own all the time. I'm trying to do it more. I know, I know. I have no time. But I'm thrilled all the same. And actually it is the viewers that make a difference in the quality of the show.

Lenin and I get good feedback from you guys. The sponsors are, you know, well taken care of. And I think that even when I disagree with some of the listeners on stuff that I see in the comments on YouTube or, you know, on Spotify,

we get a lot of comments now too, which I barely ever look at because the UI is not very friendly. Always constructive and always well thought out. The comments also free of slop here on CBP, which we like. We keep them clear. That's it for me. I don't have anything else to talk about. I got two more things to say.

We're going to do a show next week with Twan of 256 heat on some developments in home mining. One of us will do it or maybe both of us will do it. That's on the 10th. That's on Tuesday. Yeah. I recall correctly. No, it's Wednesday, isn't it? Tuesday?

I think I selected the 10th. Oh, no, I see, that's a Tuesday. That's a Wednesday, my bad. 10th is a Wednesday, yeah. Ah, okay, my mistake. Tuan wouldn't feed you. Actually, he did feed us the 9th of the 10th, but the 10th is when we're going to do it.

So look forward to that. If you don't have a 256 heat unit yet, or you're thinking about one, or you just want to start home mining some other way, this will be an episode worth listening to. Twan is a wealth of knowledge. He's been doing this for a long time. He's a true pro.

Always knows what he's talking about. And I think you're going to find that that's a value. episode. I will be on on September set or September. If I'm planning September already, we got a problem. December 17th, I will be on the BTC sessions Christmas special for like 40 minutes, I think. According to my calendar, Nathan sent me the calendar invite last week. I got to look at it again, but it's going to be long. There's like a podcaster session. So I think it'll be a couple of us from that open source pod telegram. And it'll be fun for sure. We always have a good time on that. I know Len, you've done it in the past. I've done it in the

So I'm going to do it again this year. And I'm looking forward to that quite a bit. The bid axe. It's a point of contention, I guess. I was just looking at it because I fixed the screen on it. And there's comments on the back and forth we had on the bidax in the rock paper Bitcoin discord. And? Mixed bag.

Some people agree with me. Some people agree with you. Some people are on the fence. All right, well, good for them. The first is wrong, the second is right. And the third is upright. Joey, you want to go right into it? Yeah, bro.

What do you want to start? Talk about Texas. Texas, the great state of Texas, Republic of. They bought $5 million in Bitcoin ETF shares, Ibit. And they plan to dump another $5 million in self-custy Bitcoin. Yes, I know. So they purchased Ibit $5 million worth of the ETF. They're probably a little bit underwater on that one, depending when they bought it.

And this is for their Texas Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. And they intend to do a second buy in the future to match that initial $5 million. So it'll be a second $5 million buy. And it's going to be sometime in the future. But the best of all, the second tranche of $5 million will likely be not an ETF, but they'll use self-custy like any good Bitcoiner would want to do. They're still in the process to try to create a framework for holding it onto their own keys. So they're not rushing into it.

They're figuring out what's the best process so they don't get rugged. And if you go back in June of this year, Texas approved legislation to allow the state to hold on to Bitcoin as part of their long-term financial asset strategy. And this is not the only state that has some exposure to Bitcoin like Wisconsin bought 100 million of Ibit back in, I think it was 2024. Yeah, I think it was last year. I think it. March or April, 2024. for. I don't think they have any intention of moving to self-cost. I think you're probably going to remain with Ibit. But Texas, back to them, they also hold gold, silver, and platinum.

So they understand hard assets, assets that are desirable and assets you can't reproduce. And so Bitcoin is now added to that wealth of assets they have. And they're also, you know, following suit, if you look at New Hampshire, they were the first state to allow the state's treasure to invest up to 5% in public funds in alternative assets like Bitcoin. And it looks like that's going to be either ETFs or self-cost to New Hampshire, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't yet purchased it, but they have the ability to do that. And Arizona, they have created a reserve fund that allows a state to hold seized or unclaimed digital assets, including Bitcoin.

So they're going to do the 60102, the state version of that as a way to do the reserve fund. But going back to the Texas story, small amount, five million now, another five million in the future total, 10 million. If you look at their GDP, they would dwarf Canada by a multiple, multiple of many times. They're a huge economy on their own. They are a powerhouse. And now they're looking to buy a little bit of Bitcoin added to their strategic reserve. Self-custody, though. How could anybody say this is wrong?

The state of Texas is doing this. I embrace this move. I truly do. They're not actually self-custodying. They're putting out an RFP for someone to custody it for them. So that's one problem. The second problem, I think, is that they, I suspect they will run into trouble because if this state ever goes blue or even purple or moderates a little bit, there will be pressure

to sell the I-bit position. And, you know, I don't know. There's just too many holes in this story. I know that Bratcher is, you know, whatever, president of the blockchain association council, whatever he is. But like, I also have, I have sort of a personal vendetta against slop format Twitter posting where you talk about like Texas bought the dip. And then there's a picture of a Bitcoin, the American flag and the like clearly sort of a, you know, shitty Canva. I let me ask you this okay on the vibe of this is this going to hold as a positive news item or will we look back on this a year from now and say that it was never going to be a long position for the state the reason part of the reason I ask is because in addition to what I already mentioned if you're using taxpayer funds to buy Bitcoin you're going to have a

problem. You're going to have a problem with that, I think. Even though, sorry, I know I keep saying I'm done, even though there's states now, especially showing real signs of budget issue, fiscal issue all over the United States. You know, to make no mention of the stuff going on in Minnesota, the sort of fraud and financial infidelity with the taxpayer at the state level is getting worse and worse. So maybe this is a sign of the time. I don't know. What do you do?

Are you going to take your Bitcoin to your grave with you? No, of course not. No, no. I plan on using it for something. But the question is about... And if Texas decides to do the same thing, all the more power to that.

Yeah, but... Okay, but this is actually a sort of a dubtail in the conversation we had on Saturday with the boys. Like, what makes this a Bitcoin move? Buying the Bitcoin and holding the Bitcoin is part of being a Bitcoiner. But then using the Bitcoin

for something that shares the same level of value is the second, and I would argue maybe as important piece of being a bitcoiner. And so at the state level, if these guys use it to, I don't know, they build a migrant hotel or they, they, you know, build a, who knows, right? They build a shitty library or something, right? Or they build a modular, set of modular homes for drug addicts. Like, where should they have to spend that money for bitcoiners who are, fervent, like zealous about this second half of the mission, where should they have to spend

the money for us to be satisfied? Do we have to be satisfied? Should they care about the second half of the mission? So what are they? So then why do, so then why do we think, so then why then is the self-custody or the buy a big deal if they're just going to blow it on something stupid when NGU? You know what I mean? Like this is a part of the problem, I think, that we don't ever talk about with these buys. It's the acceptance of Bitcoin as an asset that a state, is buying do this five years ago then it would be not even in the radar here we are you know like 2025 end of 2025 and they're buying spot bitcoin that that is fucking huge man and i don't care how they use it they could burn it they could they could do whatever this is a beautiful

thing about bitcoin there's no like there is there's no thing you have to do with it you have yeah you can do whatever the fuck you want to do with it and that's that's wonderful like i said i i know you're not going to take it to your grave you confirmed that same year with me so if texas isn't going to take it to texas's grave they're going to have to do something with it either borrow against it or liquidate it and use the proceeds for something and if it's going to be for a migrant hotel i don't give a fuck they can do whatever they want with it it's it's just it's an asset they purchased it's an asset they could sell self-custody love it and let's rock and roll man let's keep this let's do this again i love this shit yeah i would hope

that they would also be able to confirm their transactions that would be like tesla does like that would take an extra step doesn't take much to run it but i'm sure somebody in fucking texas could spend the time to fucking do it one of their IT dudes here here's the manual actually follow the cbp video on how to to run and compile a node using Linux and just follow that to a t and you get it fucking going so that's what i i i'm being i'm being told in the chat this is a net positive and i'm making a mountain out of a mohill so i'll uh i'll i'll abdicate my position here but I will just say that there's I think a second half to this that is pretty important and we'll see I do agree with you though about like the the legitimacy angle and actually

somebody in the chat mentioned earlier on that front Vanguard is offering Ibit starting tomorrow too so there is a legitimacy angle coming which is weird because what's that what's Vanguard doing repeat that once again they're offering Ibit on their services tomorrow which they're not doing right now. They're not? No, they're the last one, I think, the last major player to bend the knee. So they're bending the knee, which is great. I also, fuck, I lost my train of thought.

Sorry. I bit Vanguard. No, it's not your fault. I bit Vanguard. Ah, at a time when legitimacy for the asset seems to be sort of growing in most of the slow money world, you're also seeing a disparaging of the asset in the debt market world, right? Tether, getting a knock on their, I don't want to say credit rating, but their reliability rating from S&P. And then, I think it's for Japan.

MSTR is a whole of the story. MSTR today. Is that in the notes? It's not in the notes because that came out this morning. I do want to talk about it. I do want to talk about it. I want to talk about it. It's a Bitcoin story. So let's talk about it. Sure. It's a $1.44 billion that are raising in U.S. dollars. And it's assumed, at least I don't think there's anything concrete yet, but the thought is that this is going to be used for paying dividends moving forward if things go really bad.

So it gives them at least some breathing route in case there's a bear market going forward and correct me if I'm wrong. This is all fee of stuff. I don't really know. My initial thinking was they're using this as a way to pay for bills, just bills in general. The general bills that they have to pay.

I'm not sure if micro strategy is if they make money every quarter. If they do, then I'm totally wrong. But if they don't, then maybe they'll use this to pay salary, to pay rent, to pay everything else. There's a lot of this. I just don't know. I didn't really look into this. So it sounds like you have an opinion. You want to talk about it and at least give your side.

I don't. I really don't know this. I haven't looked into it. It's a lot of fee it yet. I don't give a fuck to be honest. But let's watch this little part of the video here. Okay, I clip this this morning. Let's listen.

Above one times MNAV, the most efficient thing for a public. a company like ours to do is to sell the equity. Below one times MNAB, we just get lots of questions. And there are skeptics that are doubtful, well, could you sell the Bitcoin? Would you sell the Bitcoin? And the answer is, yes, we could sell the Bitcoin. We could also sell Bitcoin derivatives. And we would do that because that's in the best interest of the shareholders. And because it's in the best sense of the shareholders, it's best for the company and therefore or best for the Bitcoin community, as well as the credit community, as well as the equity investors. Do you believe any of that?

Any of it? That they're not going to sell, that whatever he says is in the best interest of the company is also in the best interest of Bitcoin and the Bitcoin community. What the fuck is this guy talking about? The only thing that there's a connection between Bitcoin and what you can do. price is the price that is correct that is a huge thing for a lot of people but that is essentially it and any no that's why no one person or entity can control things they could potentially change prices if they dump or buy a lot of bitcoin either way but that's the only

thing one entity can do it's nuts it's absolutely nuts and i just want to before you know maybe i'll put this up while i talk about it i i think think this is like a fairly telling um i don't know what you would call this but it's like a telling sort of circumstance and and gives you an idea of how this guy thinks okay this guy has people running entire businesses podcasts leaving their jobs for treasury companies you know telling their neighbor mechanic priest mother father uncle uncle aunt infant child that mcr is a future that you know credit in the digital age is the future And what he's doing is making AI slop rocket ships and putting his preferreds and other equity offerings at the tip of the rocket ship and labeling other parts of the rocket ship with different things.

This is not, I repeat, okay, this is not a guy you should be thinking about parking your fortune with. he is a convicted financial fraudster, okay? He doesn't have a suit that fits. He gets on TV only with the most friendly person across from him. He only does podcasts where he thinks he can steamroll the host, and so far he's been correct. They know that they can't pay the dividends with Bitcoin if this keeps up. Okay, if you go back to that clip, I showed you earlier,

I'm not going to go to it myself, but if you go back to it, he's got stuff in there like BTC cruise price, BTC escape velocity, BTC stall, like, don't, you don't have to give everything a nickname. And the problem I have with that bit is that, you know, he's presumably trying to make himself more appealing to the credit market because there's rumors that he's going to lose his MSCI placement. There's rumors that S&P won't take him because he's got too much Bitcoin. and Tether, who has too much Bitcoin as a share of, as a share of their reserves, is now under pressure too. And, you know, Ardino and all the Tether guys are saying, yeah, well, we didn't agree with you then. We don't agree with you now. Fine.

And so far, they've been right. I'm not, you know, necessarily disparaging them. But clearly, Sailor is in a different boat. When he talks about how the future of the company is digital credit, okay, well, so you're not a software business anymore. You're just running, you're trying to produce your own yield curve. So to kind of tie this back to what I was saying a second ago. Why do the presentation then? Why release this presentation on December 1st, 2025,

gear it basically towards retail, right? No one on the institutional side is watching that presentation. They want to see reporting. They want to see official data, not a slideshow. Where Fong Lee, who is a disciple of Sailor? Like, are we really going to talk about? This guy's like an independent thinker or he's a visionary. Like, he's a disciple.

These guys, their entire careers are riding. on this thing working as a credit engine, not as a software company, not as a Bitcoin holding company, a credit engine. I think this is a mistake. And if you're wondering if I'm taking crazy pills or whatever,

I would suggest you to look across the spectrum of Bitcoin treasury stocks. They are getting crushed compared to Bitcoin in terms of performance. Crushed. They spent two years outperforming and now they're getting absolutely walloped. They are outperforming Bitcoin,

I think, on almost any time horizon. in now. So my question to the MSTR guys, and it's, you know, with all due respect, a lot of smart guys out there. I know, Ben Schmidt, in front of the show, did a lot of work at the conference. Jeff Walton, you know, even SB has been a proponent of some of those MSTR stuff, though, having talked to him today, he's no longer in that boat. What is it that you're hanging your hat on now?

This guy is in public talking about how he is, he views it as rational. under one MNAV to sell derivatives or Bitcoin. Derivatives and Bitcoin. Derivatives and or Bick. Like that that is a complete phase shift from the AI slop this guy posts every day about never sell your Bitcoins. Don't sell your Manhattan real estate in the digital realm. What are you talking about, bro? You know, like what are you talking about?

How old is he? 60. 60, like not into 60, but 60. 60 years old, 6.0. Yeah, okay. That's what I see on Google anyway. Okay, that's, let's run with that. I'm not going to dispute that.

It seems right to me. I just wanted to confirm it. So he's 60 years old. At the time when he first started buying Bitcoin, not he, MSTR. Five years ago, six years ago. August 2020,

one? 2020. 2020. August 2020. 20, you're right. I bet. So at the time,

it was relatively large purchase, but, you know, what they've accumulated since, makes it look like a very small thing. So they did it because they saw the writing on a wall. They wanted to get. So they just, they're not really trying to do the rinse and repeat of what they did in 2020.

And to try, they're, he is and MSTR is trying to hit a massive home run. And you know what? If they strike out, if he strikes out and the company goes tits up, Bitcoin fucking tanks as a result, the question I have. you is Michael sailor still a wealthy man even though he has bitcoin that's going to be like probably close to zero like I don't know I would think that he he is a wealthy man regardless of what the outcome is here so he's going to live a very good life he could do this and impact shareholders lives moving forward and it doesn't really impact his this is just

I believe I don't have anything to say this is for sure but I believe the guy is going to be well off regardless of what happens so he's going to try to hit a home run or strike out either when happens it doesn't really matter to him he's going to live a good life so for in his eyes who fucking cares but in our eyes

not I'm talking about somebody that doesn't want to see the price of Bitcoin fucking absolutely tank the average the pleb the pleb in a way I want to see some or all these treasury companies just fucking take it

a pick to the teeth it's not going to happen. You probably have a few. The reality is you probably have a few, take it in a team this time around. MSTR, I don't think you're going to sell. The only thing that's going to impact MSTR is if there's a news win, like a news event comes out saying, look, Fidelity and or Coinbase, they lost a little bit of Bitcoin. It could be like even 500 stats, but it's enough to like really change people's idea about self-custody or having them custody Bitcoin for others. That would be a devastating loss. for their valuation other than that i think they're going to be okay so he says he says he says in

the presentation uh that they can ride out years of 10,500 dollar bitcoin i could i believe that yeah we went to 15 the question isn't by and by the way the question isn't like this is the other thing i feel like he's moving the goalposts here the question isn't can you ride it out like i know you can ride it out and i'm quick i you know i am a quick study in this regard because I have no other choice being on Twitter all day to hear from the MSTR True North fans and the guys who do the show, yes, he is massively over-collateralized.

I understand this. But the question isn't and has never been, like this drives me fucking crazy. The question has never been, can he ride it out with the assets he has? Is he in danger of losing the dividend or whatever? Like, that's not the question. Saylor is trying to make that the question.

The question he has to answer is, can you do it without selling the Bitcoin? The answer is no. The USD Treasury is 12 months that they're working on getting to 24 months. They know they can't do it without selling the Bitcoin. That's why they're getting the Treasury. It adds to their creditworthiness, which, by the way, will never get them into any of these indexes because it's not about the creditworthiness. It's about making a point.

now. He doesn't, he doesn't get it. He doesn't get it. And this is just me, this just me bullshitting from my basement. I get that. But like, it's hard. I feel like I have pretty good instincts, you know. On this show, we say a lot of stuff for a lot of time every week, off the cuff, basically, right? You do a little bit of research lead up to the show on the topics that matter for the week. But it's hard to do 10 topics and be well-versed on all of them. So we try and get the important stuff. And I feel like our instincts carry us the rest of of the way. And I don't know, Len, like, do you not feel like your instinct's been broadly correct on this since the beginning, especially on him and MSTR?

What has been my, I've been consistent on this message. In my view, your stance is always, if it ain't Bitcoin, it's a Fiat game. And you're going to get a Fiat result in the end. You may or may not get a Fiat. I just don't want to play it. I want to deal in a system where it's permissionless, trustless, borderless. that's what Bitcoin is if I have to buy into a stock that has Bitcoin that is tied

to the price of Bitcoin it's a game I don't want to fucking play I just I've seen enough happen over the past few years and even periodically you hear stories of people trying to get money out of the bank yourself included Joey

I'm not sure if you were taken to the ringer or if they just gave you kind of a I had to call in some reinforcements to get some money off my helock to build a fence That's bullshit. This is your money. A deck, I should say a deck this year. A deck this year and a fence last year.

Same thing. I learn from these examples. And I'm thankful you tell us. You could put this in the vault and we never hear from it. But I'm thankful you bring it out to the forefront. Everybody out there should learn from this type of example. And other people, fuck, the CBP couldn't get. We had a bank account when they kicked us up because I forget the exact terminology.

Too risky. Didn't meet the risk profile or whatever. beyond their risk appetite banks are hungry now i bet these are like events you go through and it's like something is here i don't want to deal with it so like going back to what i'm saying i'm just consistent with my thing i just want to buy bitcoin that's all they want the only thing that really matters to me is tomorrow i have more stats than today if that's the case i don't care about the valuation of bitcoin right now in a few years i will but at this particular moment no i don't care what happens to micro strategy i don't care what happens to insert company name it's the only thing that matters do i own bitcoin

Yeah. Do I have more tomorrow than today? Probably it's going to happen. I sleep good at night. That's all that matters to me. Yeah, I think you're right. I want the MSCR thing to work out for a lot of different reasons, but I am less and less confident day by day that it's not going to blow up. John is saying that HELOC is kind of not your money, but he's using the asset of his home.

I forget what, that's collateral for that. I mean, John, they provide, I agree to the terms of the loan, right? They provide the interest rate. they tell me what I need is collateral and then when I go to get the money I can't get it unless I use it for something they want like is that that's the lesson here I guess I don't know I I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on the the mechanics of the HELOC but I think there's something to be said there about what what my responsibility to the bank is in terms of my intentions with the cash is especially at such a low dollar amount it's not like I made it over $10,000 other time

you know it's not it's not like it's a KYC issue AML issue it's not like it's a money laundering issue it's a some retard at a desk you know saying i have to ask you what it's for fuck you how's that i'm gonna throw it on a bed and make a fucking rap video around it like you can say anything you want and they can write it down however they like but at the end of the day that question is a bridge too far for me that's so dumb you go to work like everybody else joey you earn money that money gets deposited into a bank and you want to get it out and it's like you have to do a favor to them no Like, they're doing a favor for you.

Like, you're giving the money. They could earn interest. I mean, I know what they're doing, right? Like, the obvious answer is, if it's a significant amount of money, they want to make sure that no one's skipping on taxes, you know? Like, that's what, that's why they do it. That's why they do it. You know what?

As Putin is cereal saying, if you can't add MSTR to your cold card, it's a shit coin. And it's right. You can't, with MSTR, you can't take that across the border and use that in a different jurisdiction. You got to, wherever you bought it for whatever brokerage, that's when you have to use it. You can't use that for buying shit. You can't verify that you own it. There's nothing.

It's totally, everything is to do with shit coin. It's not permissionless. It's not trustless. It's not porterless. Yeah. It's garbage. Yeah. But do what you want.

I'm consistent with my message. If people want to do these things, all the more power to them. I want to hear stories about your gains. And I also want to hear stories about your losses as well. right let's be like fuck let's let's hear both sides there's been a lot of losses lately ms tears down a lot we went up a lot 50% or more i think now and since october since october but it's gone up a lot before that a lot of people make good money on that not me yeah but something good and i'm you know good for them all the more power anyways let's talk about

this five dollar wrench attack that happened nasty yeah it's this this man not at hamilton man, not a Brampton man. No, no. It's this guy in San Francisco pretending to be a delivery worker and he forced his way into this San Francisco home of, I'm tried

pronouncing his name, Lackey Groom. Good luck. Yeah. Anyways, association with Sam Bankman, so yeah, anyways. Sam Alton's ex-boyfriend. Sam Alton, my mistake.

Yeah, so the guy came, the delivery worker was masked. and dressed up as a delivery agent pretending to be working for UPS. He knocked on a door and he was carrying a small white box and he was pretending to be delivering a package to Lucky Groom's house. And the only person home at the time was Lucky's roommate named Joshua. And this took place on the evening of November 22nd, that's Saturday. And the man, the delivery man, asked for Joshua to sign it for the package.

And when Joshua went inside to get the pen because the attacker didn't have a pen on him. That should be like a red flag when the guy is delivering him has asked me for a pen. The attacker forced his way into the house and he attacked Joshua and he tied him up

after attacking him with a gun and spent about 90 minutes in the home, stole approximately $11 million worth of Bitcoin and E. He transferred it from Joshua's account. Joshua's cell phone was stolen, his laptop was stolen And these are stories you've got to learn from, right?

These are free education for you and all. But he lost $11 million worth of Bitcoin and Eath, but for you is free. Figure out how to invest to make sure you don't get your Bitcoin stolen from you. Don't keep it at home. We talk about this so often. And I wonder why the guys who have the most to lose aren't doing the obvious thing. Does that not seem weird to you? Are they just too busy to do it?

Or do they not, are they like jaded and don't trust that they can execute on a strategy like this? Or they think that if they have a strategy where it's not at home, then they're somehow compromising their security. Like what is the thinking? I can't figure it out. The strategy is not micro. I can tell you that much. Let's talk about this post on Reddit on the Bitcoin CA subredits to be specific. This guy was saying that RBC was blocking.

him with getting his money we just talked about this a moment ago and rbc was giving him a hard time moving his money to both both bitcoin and coinbase and right so just a reminder when you put the money in a bank it's no longer yours to use how you want you have to ask permission from the bank to take it out and use it maybe it's not uh operation choke point 3.0 type thing maybe maybe not we're never never we are i don't give a fuck but this thing i could guarantee fucking to you that anybody that has bitcoin properly secured can move it to whatever address they want to if it's a valid address or not you could simply do it no questions asked you just do it this guy buddy he ended up calling the bank and was told he was locked out from his accounts until he had to go into

the branch and undergo a security check just to get access to his fucking money that he worked for why again this is more free education for people out there do what you want. I've never had a problem sending money to an exchange, knock on wood. But it seems to me like there's, I don't want to say this guy is at fault, okay? But I think you probably have to have something going on in your account history to get these flags pulled on you. Because no one I know has had this happen. I've never had someone get their funds frozen.

I'm not saying it's something you've done on purpose necessarily or like something you know you've done. But it feels to me like there's always, there's got to be more than just the one transaction to set it up. If I look at the bull Bitcoin, like the bull of Bitcoin funding history in my bank account, it's going to different addresses basically every year because those guys were struggling with banking relationships too.

So it was changing all the time. The dollar amounts are always round numbers. They're fairly significant. And I never once had a problem. problem. Not once. So is it an e-transfer or wire transfer difference? Is it a, you know, you have no other suspicious transfers or e-transfers on your account? Like, it's hard to know exactly what the details to these stories are. But I am surprised at a place like Reddit that people don't ask these questions more often. Like, okay, well, what else are you doing that you're getting

flagged? Because it doesn't seem to happen to, you know, 99% of people. Just that 1% of people is the most vocal and gets the most clicks, right? Is that fair to say? This was posted on the Bitcoin CA subreddit. So I would imagine people that frequent there are already jaded with a bank. So when somebody comes with a negative story, they're not going to dig into it. It's just these motherfuckers are doing it again. It's just another story why we don't want to trust, right?

Yeah. And I'm not going to take this. You know, the less exposure I have to it, the better it is. I think that's the way to my blood pressure is way lower. as a result. Yeah. There was an interesting thing that happened this past week in Bitcoin. Very, very short commentary here.

Roughly 20 million Bitcoin to date has been mined and distributed to wallets. Nothing special there. But apparently 8%, almost 1.7 million Bitcoin of that 20 million that was mined was moved in the past week. That's an oddity. I guess a decent amount that people, I guess a lot of people were liquidated. Maybe some wallets were doing some shuffling. for sure guessing but i don't know i just it seemed kind of interesting to see that like a decent

amount 8% of the bitcoin supply that's been mined moved in the past week that's um etfs maybe what do you think i would imagine maybe fidelity or coinbase is doing that with like micro strategies holding i don't know arkham research has to come out and say that they sold some more bitcoin right already did that a couple of weeks ago how is that guy's reputation going to recover. I mean, it doesn't matter. People in Bitcoin have like the shortest memory span for stuff like that. But I do wonder if it's just ETF related. Because you know what? I bet you, Len, you're going to see more and more of these stories. Like largest number of Bitcoin moved in one transaction as time goes on and the ETFs continue to grow in size.

You'd almost expect to see it, right? And you're going to see stuff like dollar value, highest dollar value transaction because the price is going to go up, right? I don't think this is necessarily like a signpost or anything, but I do think it's partially. because of these large institutional vehicles you're seeing stories like this. Did you move all your Bitcoin? Were you part of the whole 8%? Yeah, I got 10 million Bitcoin.

I have 10 million Bitcoin. They're all, they're all, so you move one points. I keep them in my, I keep them in my sock drawer. So my OPSEC maxed out. It's completely maxed out. Yeah, this person named B-E-E-E-E-Evolved,

then Twitter posted something interesting. These guys, they're using heat. that is given off from Bitcoin miners as a way to grow various things like purple sweet potatoes and greenhouses and they say they have temporarily automated heating they have a S19J Pro running a two hashboard 120 volt modded configuration

very similar to a Juan from 256 heat.com and he uses this or they use this to warm their greenhouse and they see even a recent drop of 20 to 20 Fahrenheit a simple thermostat brings the Bitcoin miner online with a target of 80 Fahrenheit. That's a huge difference. So it goes to 20 to 80.

It's running hot. Temperatures, they're trying to keep it between 60 and 77 Fahrenheit. Even with the winter coming in, the rig hasn't turned off. They're steadily mining Bitcoin and producing heat. This type of concept, it's not new. Somebody in Canada was doing this a few years back. And we talked about it. I couldn't quite find that story.

And this is something that northern areas can do in cold climates, of course, where you're not getting much heat. With greenhouse, you could then grow some vegetables in areas that you would normally not grow during that time of year. So I like this, as long as there's enough light you could provide for the plants. You might have to get artificial light. I don't fucking know. But this is a way to help potentially feed communities fresh produce. and mine Bitcoin at the same time. It's a good story.

It's a neat, like the applications for home mining, I think, are, have always been there, but people are now kind of innovating. And, you know, we talk about Twan all the time in 256 heat. This is another example of what you could use a similar setup for, right down to the, you know, automatic on and off based on the ambient temperature. And it's, it's so neat to see this. Once you get into mining, you will invariably find, I think, that you have a problem that can be solved by hash heating.

And if you can make use of the byproduct, which is the heat, then everything else is gravy. The Bitcoin's gravy, the experience is gravy, the tech deep dives you will have to do on boards and jewels per tera hash and power efficiency and all this stuff, all gravy. But you'll take all that with you for some other application at some point. And it's all about just getting started. You know, years ago, remember we talked to Colin Sullivan at Mincreen about what he was doing on the West Coast there and now they're doing major projects in British Columbia.

What are they doing? The last I heard that hotel pool. They're doing a hotel, I think, a couple hotels. Yeah, I talked to Colin in Montreal. He's a good dude, by the way. Sneaky tall, sneaky tall, taller than you think. So they were initially doing with Mint Green, I believe it was whiskey production.

Yeah, yeah. And potentially also heating homes in, North Vancouver, but I could be wrong on that. Don't know. But yeah, there's a lot of applications you could use. Yeah, and I, and like, I just want to know, Boomer is saying that more plebs are getting into Bitcoin mining and that's bullish. Totally agree, man.

This is the other piece of the puzzle for me. You want mining deindustrialized in a sense and, you know, in one sense of the term. And to have that sort of deindustrialization, decentralization, you need people to find use cases. It has to make sense for them. And the more people that get into finding those solutions, the more people will bring online can't beat it speaking of industrial miners core scientific who had some problems they went i think chapter 11 they filed some time ago and they're still doing their thing they're

still mining bitcoin they are now running some of the proto bitcoin miners those are the modular miners that are designed by block and right now they have 150 units and combine this 819 terra hash Oh sorry 819 terrah hash each of these Of the 150 units And they showed off a video of how they look like On their mounted on the on the wall over there

They're racked and hashing away These are 14.1 joules per tera hash Using air cooled And they say under 90 seconds You could do a rack And on rack repairs So if it's already on there

It doesn't take much time to swap stuff out just because of the modular design is easy to repair it's easy to upgrade and the idea about it is that's you know that's what they want to make for these unique compared to like bitmain and the problem though i think with that is the majority of the cost is the boards themselves the control board probably not so much but the hashboards so i get it but you know the casing it's not really that costly so if you have a bit main you have to replace the hashboard you're just replacing one board. Now, if you're changing the whole unit,

yeah, that's a different thing. So you're probably going to have to change the racks themselves to fit from S19, S-21, or whatever, the new one's going to be. I took a look to see where these proton miners, where the chips are being made, it's right now being done in Taiwan. For better, for worse, it's being done there.

They say they want to bring it to the USA to be done over there. I'd love to see this done onshore, but for the time being, it's done in Taiwan. Taiwan is better than China, but right now as being that in Taiwan. Still some vulnerabilities though, right? If you are in that region, you're at the mercy of those shipping routes, the mercy of sort of geopolitical whims and God knows there's plenty of things influencing those at the moment.

So something to consider. I like the rigs themselves. Did you watch the video? Yes. So do you believe this sort of stack, rack, repair, 90 second thing? Because to me, it doesn't look like these units necessarily lend them. themselves to that. And on top of that, part of the reason that you want your hardware to be difficult to modulize, modularize, modulize, I don't know what the word is, is because

you do have to get these things shipped in. You have to get them, you know, size sometimes for your warehouse setting or for your minor hub setting. I don't know that I like this necessarily, but we'll see. I'm happy to be proven wrong. One thing I do like is that there's competition entering the market yeah that's big and an american company at that that has intentions of bringing production to united states that's something and it seems to be pretty competitive at 14.1 jules per tarahshash it could be better but man it's for like one of their first units they're putting out there it's competitive yeah so i gotta give credit kind of neat too like the the way that uh this is you know tangential but there was a story last week or

two weeks ago about how the U.S. government may find that data centers and high-powered compute are national security issues and backstop some of these industries. They talk predominantly about AI and those data centers. But I think it's possible that you see Bitcoin miners lumped into that too. And so I wonder if that's one of the reasons you might see sort of a rise in U.S. domiciled mining companies over the next year or so. I think that's possible. I know what I like is that we haven't heard a peep from anybody out there

about the energy usage for these AI data centers. You can make a porno like a kinky AI assistant or whatever on Grox thing and everything is just like a complete nonsense,

slop everywhere you look on these stupid platforms. I have no idea how much energy is being used by those data centers versus Bitcoin. I'm going to assume at this point the skills have tipped over to decide of data centers.

I think that they use more. But I have nothing to confirm that. It's just a thought. If that's the case, all this talk about Bitcoin mining using enough energy to power some Northern European countries, boiling in the oceans,

all this shit. You hear nothing about this from an industry or about an industry that uses, at least if we're correct, uses more energy, more electricity than Bitcoin mining. Why?

I think it's because those data centers are at least some, at least some part of them, if I had to guess, especially in the United States, is working on quantum. I really do think that's what's happening. I think the governments around the world realize that the breakthrough on quantum is close and they want to make sure that they're backstopping the industries that will help them get there first. But why isn't somebody like Greenpeace going out and they don't give a shit about quantum? Well, the Greenpeace is a terrible quantum but Greenpeace is funded ultimately

by governments so that's a good point you know like there's no the rules of yeah the usual rules of engagement don't apply when things are very much at risk in terms of like your security military yeah

last story because we're up against an hour right now Europol this came out today I don't have very much information they shut down something called crypto mixer one word and apparently a crypto mixer, which they suspected was being used for facilitating cybercrime and money laundering. So they came down on that.

They confiscated 12 terabytes worth of data and more than 25 million euro worth of Bitcoin. And since its creation in 2016, so it's about nine years old, over 1.3 billion euro has been mixed through this crypto mixers. I had never heard of it before, but apparently it was operating on the shores of Europe and they fucking cracked down on that. They sent in the police and that's no longer an operation. So imagine

the 12 terabytes of data. What information is that? That's an Amazon hard drive, basically. Small. Well, I would imagine, do you think they're keeping the addresses of stuff that's been mixed? I'm sure

that they are. or UTXOs or like something something like there's something that could tie you know UTXO in to the UTXO out and just maybe even IP I don't know yeah I don't know just very strange so crypto mixer if you were a user of that I'd be concerned who's using that enough 1.3 billion euro was used in nine years that's like that's one that's one Christine Lagarde fraud charge it's not even that much uh that much money. Do you think that she might be potentially using it? I think she's a Monaro girl, I had to guess. Doesn't she have that necklace with the open diamond in or not? She has the

treasurer bucket hat. I saw her wearing it. She has a mask scarf. They got the matching scarf. Who to fuck would I want to want to work. Oh, God. All right. That's it for. I hope you all enjoyed that. Yeah, great, great show. Let's go to the Notables here. Stay with us if you're on audio, if you're live and if you're on video or sorry if you're on video and live stay with us if you're on audio listening after the fact come back tomorrow for the back half of the show until then take care of yourselves and don't buy msDR