The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Canadian Stablecoin Legislation, Fork Talk, Lava Lending Controversy | The CBP 240 Pt 1

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESJoin us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord:   / discord   A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - https://easydns.com EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.256Heat -⁠ https://256heat.com/ ⁠ GET PAID TO HEAT YOUR HOUSE with 256 Heat. Whether you're heating your home, garage, office or rental, use a 256Heat unit and get paid MORE BITCOIN than it costs to run the unit. Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.

a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and enemies. Welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed. Listen to Levin Joe E. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and easy DNS, the media is feeding a slop. It doesn't. matter what topics discussed quality entertainment and information you can trust uh that's being planned or at least discussed you know we're not going to allow the entertainment and information you can trust

send the guys some value boost them with some stats bitcoin is a scarcity asset i mean it's just a fact geopolitical national down to the local cloud friends and enemies welcome back to the canadian bitcoiners podcasts where we are balanced like the budget and forked like the chain. I guess we'll talk about all that stuff tonight. My name is Joey. That's what's going on. How the heck are you? Do you want to hear more about the fork wars?

You fork your mother if you want the fork. I talked a lot about that recently. It's a segment basically on every show. But I mean, until there's really something to talk about as far as like the actual fork, I mean, what are we going to discuss? we're just kind of, you know, postulating on what's possible. I'm not sold on either outcome being more likely than the other. Or advantageous for you as a Bitcoiner.

I think that, I think there's a lot that still has to be done. Like a lot of water has to flow under this bridge before we figure things out. I brought on Nome two Wednesdays ago. Two weeks. For the fork, he wants to, you know, maximize his Bitcoin. uh and last what do you do if there's a if there's a fork you keep them both what are you doing no because take the ride take the rides in the chat too long time friend of the show won't say his name but uh yeah like he's asking the same thing air drop air drop who who which one do you

keep do you keep do you do well depending if there's going to be a censorship coin if one that they're going to potentially do a reorg then that's the one i'm probably not going to want to back up. I don't want to back. I just don't believe in that. Bitcoin's got to be censorship resistant. Agreed. A node could do whatever they want, but a network is something different.

Having miners reorg and then that's bullshit. So I'm not for that. I would probably just dump those coins and then buy more of the other coin, Bitcoin. Now, whichever coin keeps the BTC token, that ticker, sorry? That's going to be huge. Right, right, right. So we'll see

what happens. If this even happens, I don't even know. No, me neither. I mean, it's all up in there right now. Anyway, we'll talk about that. We've got a lot to discuss tonight. Budget just came out. I mean, I don't even know where to start. We're going to not waste any time here. The sponsors are the usual trio, the father of the son, the Holy Ghost, EasyDNS, the best place for you to do all your domain related work. Mark has been a friend of ours, front of the show for a long time, and EasyDNS has been in business for even longer than that, accepting Bitcoin. Since the mid-20 early 2010, something like that.

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Who's next? Stock up. Yeah. Stock up in your first buy and I make it most worth your while. And full Bitcoin, we like them. They're non-custodial. This is what you want in the exchange. They do Bitcoin, on-chain. They do lightning. So when fees are high, which they're not right now, you could then take advantage and do lightning,

but just do on-chain for the time being. Look, for a non-custodial exchange, how many out there offers reoccurring buys, auto buys, limit orders, not many. And so they do give you the option. So when the price dips, you're able to action it and buy some Bitcoin right away. want to pay bills you could do that with bold bitcoin want to send money to somebody well you could do that you can send to bitcoin and eventually will end up in your friend's account as cad the canadian

dollars and then a lot of different options you if user referral code below all your buys and sales forever are going to be a little bit cheaper so check it out if you're in canada western europe costa rica argentina gosh i think that's it i don't know wherever the fuck they are it's a lot of places hopefully the united states soon we'll see Yeah, outstanding stuff. And then obviously we have one more sponsor. We'll talk about during everyone's favorite segment, Brampton Man versus Hamilton Man. Let's do the boost.

We'll do a little housekeeping and then we'll get rolling. Yeah, wartime, 133 sats. And he just writes, boost. Thank you. Great. God's D, 237 sats. And he says, thank you, gentlemen, with a laughing face. This is with respect to the Previan versus D debate, argument.

Like, it was, I started the sidelines and I had a good laugh. I, I just thoroughly enjoyed it. When you do the shows, I usually try and like get onto my computer or like head on to YouTube at about an hour, right? So 8 o'clock, 755-ish, because I don't want to be up all night. I got to do the editing and stuff and try and get out the next morning. And anytime I go on and it's 820 and you're still going, I know either the conversation has become very technical or demented. And with those two guys, I'm pretty sure it was some. of the two. Though I got to be honest, I didn't listen past the first 45 minutes because

they're just like, it's like the same stuff we hear in the group chat with those two guys all the time. There's no point in tuning into the censored version on CBP for me. It was partially censored. I would say. The R word was stirring around quite a bit. Yeah. Anyway. Doug, 525 sats and he writes in a fascinating show. This is the gnome show I did a couple of weeks ago, he said. Yeah. But would err on the side of caution with moving all my quote unquote non-Bitcoin AirDrop coins to an exchange. Free money is fun and all, but doxing my stack.

Even a portion of it is a big risk. Good point. Maybe you could use a decentralized exchange in order to do that, and so you're not really doxing anything. It gets into a different address, and there's options. Totally, totally.

Hammertown OG. Joey, this is the second time. My guy. I got to meet this guy. Where is he at? In Hammertown. Anyways, 2,500. at. Big spender. He says, the quality of the service and products produced by companies that

engage in DEI policies and use LMIA and TFWs is horrific. Our last meaningful act of defiance is to vote with our money, boycott establishments like the CBC and Tim Hortons, especially in Picton and Grand Bend. Spend your money where the quality is found. That's why I support the CBP. I love it. I appreciate that. Hammertown, OG. If you ever want to get a beer, pint on me sometime, uh, I'll know, Len, we, I don't think I've been talked about the grand bend Tim Horton's story on the show. No, not in detail. Do you know the, you know, the story though. I think we, we, we talked about it offline. Owner of those two Tim Horton, same owner, I think, or, or related somehow, um, not necessarily by blood or anything, but they're, you know,

following the same strategy. Fired the staff they had when they purchased the store and replaced them with TFWs, I guess, I suppose that's the, or LMAs, excuse me, I should say. So, yeah, I think that is true. I practice what I preach, although it does hurt me in the pocketbook a little bit from time and time. Anytime I go downtown in Dundas, I always try and buy something, whether it's like a $4 coffee from Domestique or whatever, bumper sticker. I always buy all my Christmas gifts to the local shops.

It's worth it because on the other side of trying to save a few bucks by going to you know whatever um sport check you know you wind up with a crappier neighborhood crappier community and i don't think anybody wants that so i'm i'm totally in agreement with hamletown o g on that business cat three three three three that's easy he writes in russia supplying weapons to our hemisphere which is forcing the u.s to respect its neighbors china is air frying barbecue in low earth orbit the u.s elected a communist to mayor its primary financial hub and he's doing the face palm emoji. Thank you very much, business cat.

I got to go on that show. I love those guys. I've enjoyed being part of their telegram chat. I joined that shortly after the conference and it's always pretty good. High signal and I see some familiar faces in their boomer among them. So I recommend people do that and of course listen to that show as well. They just had Nick St. Louis on talking about the Orange Party. It's in my queue.

I have to listen to that one still. But he's making a push to support. Bitcoin or politicians and also maybe start his own or our own, I think he would say political party of that same stripe at some point here in Canada. So interesting times, man. A lot going on.

That's it for boost. Love it. Housekeeping. So last week, as Len mentioned, Dean Provene talking new bips, talking forks, talking all this stuff in Bitcoin that you've been seeing on Twitter. Nice to not have two guys who are

not not interested in hygiene it looks like unfortunately for the bitcoin debaters prebine and d both clean cut and well spoken uh plus a few few times the word retard thrown around apparently which is great so we like that uh good conversation i did a sip and rip again on sunday we talked about a lot of stuff um some budget some other and uh a change of heart by me on universal basic something so go listen to that and then this week do we have anyone book this week do you want to bring Tuan wanted to come on you want to bring Tuan on we can we can have we secured it is he available I'll ask him we'll see what he's doing if he's if he's available

we'll do it if he's not and then we'll talk to him next week but yeah we're coming to the Christmas slash holiday season here it's going to be hard to get a lot of guests probably till January but we'll do our best it doesn't seem to matter to you guys who we get or if we get nobody I'm happy to say the show is growing a lot I just want to make a note that I tweeted out last week, the first six months of the new bull Bitcoin UI, you and I put through about 630,000, 650,000, something like that in volume. That's really because of the quality of the

listeners we have. And, you know, I made the thumbnail tonight kind of ingest with every famous person I could think of and crammed them into the thumbnail. We don't need to do that. You know, we have a really great listener base and, you know, we've become friends with so many you guys, whether through Discord or Telegram or on Twitter. I try to reply to all kinds of of DMs to try and, you know, make people feel like they're part of a community and I think you guys do the same. And it's been an awesome, awesome experience. I just want to thank you guys for your support and patronage of the sponsors and really just listening to Lenin and I. It's been fantastic. We really owe you guys, we owe you guys quite a bit. I have nothing else to

add. Let's go. Let's go. You want to talk? Okay, let's talk. The Canadian budget. I guess we'll talk about the Canadian, the Bitcoin portion of this. At least that's sure. tangentially related to the budget and it's the well stable coin they've unveiled the canadian regulations that they want to put forth towards stable coins nothing is groundbreaking here they want to have the issuer of the stable coins to be back with sufficient reserves make that what you will they don't mention the characteristics of the reserves correct we have had algorithmic stable coins in the past so i'm i'm certain that's not going to fall within the definition of sufficient reserves,

but maybe somebody could be creative in that. Who knows? But they want to establish redemption policies and put in place management frameworks, such as protecting personal and financial data. And let's be honest, there's a lot of information that's going to be available to be poached. And even if it is, what is the government going to do at that point? The horses left the barn and whatever, it is what it is. But the evolving of Canada doesn't just end from there.

It's just strictly providing the guidelines. No, no, no. There's going to be a little more to it. The Bank of Canada will be putting up $10 million over two years, not a lot of money, but still. And this is going to be starting next fiscal year to ensure that everything runs smoothly, followed by an estimated $5 million in annual cost

that will be offset from the Stablecoin issuers that are going to be regulated under the retail payment activities app. So essentially these Stablecoin operators are going to be charged. A fee looks like an anti-point. annual fee. And that's going to be part of that $5 million in annual cost. And as for where to $10 million is coming from, it would have been from remittances that were going to be provided to the government of Canada. So the Bank of Canada would have probably made some sort of profits somehow. And so that $10 million instead of going to the bank, sorry, the government of Canada, it's going to be used for this stable coin project. The goal of all this is to make stable coin users have a sense of security when they use the The words you use are great. They got to have a sense of security, not actual security, of course, but a sense of it. Just a sense of security.

Feel like you're secure. And then, of course, they want to try modernizing payments as well. And they want to avoid this shit. I mentioned the stuff that Doquan did in the algorithmic stable coin. I guess they want to avoid it, a terra-luna collapse and it's associated stable coin. Really, this is a whole big nothing burger. it's very similar to the genius act but not even as

not as defined as that it's close to it but not quite so it just it doesn't really do very much of anything why do you think it's a nothing burger give me the 30 seconds on why this is not anything worth paying attention to if this is an existence

versus not being an existence I don't think it changes anybody's opinion on the usage of stable coins and how they believe how secure they are If somebody is going to use a stable coin, I suspect they're going to have a belief it's backed at least one-to-one or something similar to that. Does it need to have legislation to prove that to be the case? It's really just, it doesn't do anything aside from just providing a framework for what companies can do. It's nothing, really.

Okay. It doesn't give people the ability to use it. we're still at the very dawn of having stable coins be issued or be available to Canadians, at least a Canadian version of the stable coin. So there's still a lot of runway here before things could actually play out. But really, does it change anything? No.

I'm concerned, though, this might actually lead to some sort of change for how Bitcoin could be used in the future. Okay. Because what is being, you know, if they want if they want to have some sort of framework for stable coins is it a bridge too far across to go to Bitcoin? They're both digital tokens.

One is not backed by anything besides energy. The other one's backed by we presume dollars. But still, like, there's a similarity between the two. You have, it's a network running it. It's a blockchain. There's a few things there that makes it similarities. I'm wondering if this is going to lead to some sort of framework for how Bitcoin

is dealt with it within Canada. That would be interesting to see. The stables won't run on a blockchain. They'll run on some other L2 or something. I don't think they'll be the blockchain, the way that we, maybe not the way we think about it, but the way the public thinks about it. It won't be,

because it's inefficient, doesn't make sense to run stables on that. I think you're right, like 80% of the way in that, you know, this is going to be something that's pretty cookie cutter around the world. Every country's going to try

and do something similar for stables. They'll back it with treasuries or with bonds or whatever. And some mix of gold and other liquid assets, let's say, and we'll figure it out. In Canada, we'll have to put real estate in there, too, because it's the only thing we have worth any money.

But story for another time. My bigger concern is that the problems this could cause down the line for financial freedom for the average Canadian. I'll give you an example. We've talked on this show before about how if every country has stable coins and all you need is a digital wallet to use them, which stable coin are you going to go with? The USDT or USDC, I'm guessing? Something attached to the US dollar, right?

So whatever, we'll leave the branding aside for now, but you're going to go with the U.S. dollar stable coin. That's sort of table stakes here, okay? That's the first variable that is set in stone. So everybody wants a U.S. dollar stable coin. What does that mean? It means the vendors have to have a way to accept it, right? They don't want it to. So what do they do?

They come up with a third-party wallet or some other app where they can just operate entirely in stable coins and not go back to the Canadian banking rails. Why do they not go back to the Canadian banking rails? Because the only way Canadian banks and other banks make money is scalping on transatlantic on transactions. And if banks want to scalp on transactions at an increased rate as a penalty for using U.S. dollar stable coins as opposed to Canadian stable coins, no one's going to want to do it. That's going to cause a problem for the banks, it's going to cause a problem for the government. The second issue there is that if there is a push, a real push, to make Canadian stable coins a standard for retail, for purchases, for bill payments, for whatever, for taxes, there will

need to be a significant effort to kibosh anyone or anything that helps people load U.S. dollar stablecoin apps, wallets, whatever, onto their electronic devices, mobile desktop, you name it. That's significant. And if we go down that road, that's a huge problem. Because that's, because Bitcoin is in that, that's the same lane, okay? If the, if the government is throwing a bowling ball at those pins, Bitcoin is going to get clipped along the way there for Sure. For sure. And I don't think that anyone in government can actually explain what a stable coin is, any elected official anyway. So we have some time on this. But I would caution people. I think I kind of mentioned this in passing on our show last week or two weeks ago. What is the likelihood that a stable coin is allowed to be transferred or traded for Bitcoin in that environment? It's got to be close to zero, right? if they want to prevent on ramps and so bitcoin absolutely that's right that's right so for me it's like man if you're looking at this and thinking yeah i got time to buy bitcoin or stable coins are

no big deal i would i would caution against that in a major way i would say that you're you know on the clock but there's people looking at this now and like you know everyone can kind of see too in terms of the uh excuse me nothing stops this trained thesis for people who are like well, this isn't necessarily going to happen in Canada or the United States anytime soon, blah, blah, blah. I would say if you look at some of the policy enacted by the Trump administration or the stuff they're trying to put in to stimulate demand because people are running out of money, 50-year mortgages, before the show, more talk now from the White House about 15-year car loans being available to people if they want them. I mean, you can see the writing on the wall here. And I would just say that there's going to be at some point, and I said this a year ago, at the Bitcoin conference, there's going to be a target on your back as a Bitcoiner.

And the target's going to come from all sorts of places. It's going to come from your neighbors, your friends, people are going to be jealous. They're not going to like you. They're going to say you got lucky. But I think it's also going to come from the shepherds of the currency. And I get the feeling we're getting closer and closer to this sort of watershed moment here. And the U.S., for its part, while it is true that the U.S. is not treated samurai devs with any kindness for sure, it seems to me that they are.

being kind to crypto stables and bitcoin you know coinbase today uh announcing they have a framework for people who want to launch coins on the platform like it seems me like it's moving toward a more free if a little bit controlled and a little bit gated uh a more free ecosystem there than anywhere else in the world and it feels to me like people it feels to me like people the white house know what i just said is true that everyone wants a dollar if they have a choice between the dollar and something else. And so let's do whatever it takes to make the dollar available and make it so that anyone who tries to stop the dollar

from being available in their jurisdiction looks nuts. It looks more like a whimper than it does an iron fist. And I think they've achieved that. We'll see what happens in Canada and in Europe, obviously, for sure. Well, it's coming. Europe is interesting because I wanted to make a point is that Mark Carney, what was his previous position before he became the, And besides the CEO, Bank of England, sorry, yeah.

Right. And then he was dependent. So the Bank of England today made a proposition that people, individuals are going to be capped at 20,000 pounds. Stable point pounds. 20,000 pounds. And then also businesses, 10 million pounds. So even if they can track everything,

they still want to cap your, it's insane. It's absolutely insane. So you have our prime minister who, used to be the governor of that bank that is proposing these changes and so there's a connection between the two and he seems to be traveling a lot to Europe and keeping or establishing new connections with Europe so it's probably not too far a stretch to see the bank of Canada propose the same type of restriction here and if they do that say the equivalent say 30,000 Canadian in terms of stable coins and 15 million in terms of businesses that they could have in

stable coin, do you, then is it even further to, from that type of scenario that they say you can only hold this amount of Bitcoin. Yeah. Like, is it possible? I, I can, probably not. Maybe. I don't know. I mean, the thing is like, if they're, if they're, it's going to limit how fucking stable coin I own. Like, what? The question is, why are they limiting it? Right. Why do you think they're limiting it? I would love to know the answer. I know the, I know the, I know the, I know the answer. Go ahead. Yeah. I'm curious to know what the answer. I think it's because they absolutely have to stimulate demand in the economy.

I don't think it's control? No. I think this is a close kin of control but it's not outright demanding certain things people. You remember we talked on this show

about one of the dangers of stable coins back in like 2021. One of them was negative interest rates on savings. What does that do? It forces you to spend. And I think what they want is that force spend.

They don't want people just holding stuff that appreciates in value or holding stuff that's not helping grow an economy that all over the world is having trouble simulating demand. Everywhere. Everywhere there is demand measured. Stimulating demand is a priority because it's a weakness right now. So if you allow people to hold and hold and hold and presumably collect interest on those stable coins, what happens?

They don't want this. They don't want it. It doesn't do them any good. It's the same as having. cash under your bet. They're not going to force you to spend it with negative interest rates, but they are going to cap how much you can hold. And they want you to spend. Bitcoin, I think, if anything, will go the same direction via unrealized gains over a certain cap, over a certain threshold. I suspect this is, this is in the Overton window for these guys now, for two reasons,

both of which we talked about on the show before. And I need, people need to take this seriously. The boomers are dying. They're going to transfer money as much as they can to their kids. and their kids are in a position where they want to have a cushion, but the government wants that money spent. We've heard people like Christopher Freeland talk about this supercharged savings for the economy that we need to unlock. This is what they're talking about. That's number one.

Number two, they don't want, or sorry, number two, the reason that this is going to be the case is because no one younger than us has any money. And so what are they going to do? They're going to mandani me at every turn. They're going to vote to take away my house, my gains, my tax efficient accounts, my whatever. How do you do that? You vote for stuff like unrealized gains on assets. You vote for stuff like unrealized gains over certain thresholds.

You anger only some of your voter race instead of all of your Bitcoin voter race, whatever, right? And the thing we forget is Bitcoiners, because we're in this ecosystem that's like a tight-knit echo chamber is nobody has Bitcoin. Nobody. And so everyone owns Bitcoin proper or nobody The number of people who are involved at all in Bitcoin is basically zero. It's got to be a fraction of a fraction of a percent. The number of people you know who have enough Bitcoin to be upset about a tax change to the way held Bitcoin is assessed is zero.

It's me, it's you, it's a few people in the chat. That's it. There's no political consequence for taxing this stuff. The only difficulty is, do you get? get capital flight, do you get brain drain, and is this enforceable? Because you have to get it right if you take a swing at this, right? And so this is another kind of, it's another people will vote you out of what you've earned because they haven't earned it themselves. And I do believe this is going to happen at some point. Like this is, this is the greatest threat to Bitcoiners and

the Citadel and all this stuff is democracy because no one is going to vote for you to stay rich while they're eating sliced bread. It ain't going to happen. So this is a dangerous. And, you know, we're kind of far afoot here, far afield, I should say. But, you know, this should help you kind of find your footing in terms of where we are in the, in the, the, the development curve of all this stuff. This is, this is coming. It's like, like who was in the comments there, OG Hammertown or whatever, I think, Hammertown, OG said the financial capital of the world, former financial capital of the world, probably, just elected a communist, died in the wool, communist. who's never had a job. He's never had a job,

like all he had to do was say he's going to tax the rich, white neighborhoods, whatever he said, I'm going to give away buses and grocery stores. Like, that's all it takes.

That could also be said with the president of the United States. I'm not saying, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong. What I'm saying is, what I'm saying is there's going to be, and actually the guys on All In

made fun of Friedberg for this last year when he said it during the Trump election, you know, they're making their yearly predictions. everybody, including me, thought this is the end of the, you know, far left, end of quasi-communism, New Age communism, communist chic, it's over. And Friedberg nailed it. He fucking nailed it. Said, do you guys think this is the end of communism? I think it's the beginning. There's going to be a sweeping dominance from candidates who embrace this ideology.

And we're starting to see it. We're starting to see it. And Trump has had no choice, by the way, but to at least kind of get on board. I'm sending out checks. I'm sending out this. Like, you know, and what can you do about all this? Nothing. I mean, right. You could get angry. You could try to do political action if you don't agree with it.

In the end, I suspect it's going to be, it's going to be maybe the wrong thing to say, but I'll say it. It's going to be a lot of wasted energy. Just because things happen sometimes and there's nothing in individuals, maybe you get a lot of people on board. Maybe you could stop it. But you know what? You're in Bitcoiner. You're in Bitcoin. You know what to do.

you know how to do it and just execute and that's it it's if you want more information about it feel free to talk to me and decide i'll be happy to discuss but that's the reality of it like there's lots of different options available do what you're going to do man and it's it's a beautiful thing it's permissionless it's borderless you own it you may be taxed on it but you're taxed and everything else so just be ready to be taxed on it that's all that'll be the stance for sure that'll be the stance what could you do what could you do um cashew talk about them briefly yeah it's a custodial later custodial layer that's built on bitcoin and it's supposed to solve the scalability problem with bitcoin and make it easier and quicker transactions similar

to lightning but in a different way um this way it's custodial versus lightning which is you know you could be it non-custodial um we learned that there's a vulnerability for versions prior to 0.18.1 in Cashew and the exploit allowed for potential data to be stored as the user never paid the fee that depended on a witness size. So that means that all tokens with the witness that are too large are now being rejected, but before they weren't. And so they were able to plug in whatever bullshit they wanted onto into this. It was kind of funny. I mean, it's a quick story because Callie is one of the people behind Cashew and he's very much a proponent of the core stance of just allowing things to play out to where they are. And if something goes into

the Bitcoin blockchain, well, people paid for it and so be it. But in this case, he didn't want spam to be included. I guess it's because the user didn't pay for it at particular fee. So it's actually, it's an actual bug. But still, there's a sense of irony here in that he was upset that spam was being included in this. People were storing JPEGs, but he doesn't mind that in Bitcoin. So anybody out there that's using cashew, beware, just operate to 0.18.1. And I wouldn't really trust this. This is a custodial federation model. I'll use something else. That's not. Yeah, that's the key word, right? Custodial. It's, yeah, that's why I'm Bitcoin, man. The Federation model has been, I don't want to say hotly debated, but people have had this concern with these models since the beginning of like Fettiment and other stuff like that.

You know, it's always been a lingering issue. You know, it's not going to change. So, you know, you take your tradeoffs and decide what works for you. But there's always risk with stuff like this. Well, there's a layer of trust that you're a level of trust that you have to have when you do with this. You have to trust that when it is you want to do redemption. that you're able to get it and they're not going to rug pull you. So that's all it is.

It's just that Bitcoin takes away that trust factor. It should verify everything. The only time there's a trust factor is when you purchased Bitcoin, when you purchase Bitcoin. When I go and give money to an exchange and it comes back to me in Bitcoin, I can't do a verification that it's going to be done. I have to trust that they're going to send me to Bitcoin. Well, Bitcoin's been very good. They haven't rugged anybody.

But that's the only, that right now, if you really want to break it down, that's really, for me at least, that's the only chain that's trust. Everything else I could verify myself. But that portion, I have to have some trust. And I can't get around that. And at least I'm putting trust in a group of folks that I believe in. So that's just a reality of it. Yeah. I think you're right there, Lennon.

You've always got a good kind of sense for these things. You know, if I look back at the things we've talked about on the show, things we've disagreed on, especially on the technical side, you know, you always have a pretty good handle on whether or not this is going to be a problem in the future. I don't think cashier is going to be a problem. It's just the idea of that you're giving some trust. It's risky. Maybe I should reframe it. I think, you know, you've always been on the side of things are riskier than the way they are presented a lot of the time in Bitcoin.

And this is a good example. I think the best way I could frame it, I trust myself the most. Yeah. So, those keys, like, I could control and I could trust myself. And if I could take everybody else, you know, friends and family, and fuck it, I'm happy. If you take everyone out instead of friends and enemies, you could do that. Enemies, they could fuck right off. Let's talk about more trust because three years ago, this week, we have FTX that collapsed.

And like all the people that trusted, yeah, anniversary episode. Okay, great. If you look at making Freed in the thumbnail, didn't even think about that. I guess a lot of time has passed between now and then but we got to look back because when FTX collapsed that week the price of Bitcoin there was a couple of drastic red candles. It drove down the price

from around 20-ish K to 15K almost immediately and I can understand why people were dumping Bitcoin and people didn't have much faith in Bitcoin at the time because look this was the third largest exchange by many metrics either Binance and Coinbase were number one and two. I think that was the order, one and two. Either way.

They were huge. They were huge. And also they were very public. That was another sort of thing that they had going for them. You remember Carolyn Ellison talking about how they'd buy all the, what was the token they were going to buy? Was it their own token? They were going to buy all the.

The FTT tokens? The FTT. I'll buy all your FTT at $22 bucks or something like that. Remember she was tweeting out to people who were saying they're going to sell it? Yeah. And still to this day, that token is. is being traded. It's a fraction of the price, but still, it's incredible.

That's what I got you for your birthday. I got you, 100,000 FTTs. Yeah, it was like eight bucks. I'm like the David St. Ange of cryptocurrencies. I just buy defunct bankrupt cryptos and hand them out. Hopefully I got a Tera Luna as well. And remember CZ at one point was thinking about bailing out FTX, $4 billion.

That was the, that is a crazy callback. And he looked at the books and decided not to, right? Yes, he decided, no, man, this is just too much. So, yeah. And he went to jail and decided the F.TX books were too much. He put his lawyers to work on other things right after looking at those books. Boy, you got to keep me out of jail.

He's making a short, short staying club fed. Oh, God. He also was the one that triggered the immediate bank run. Remember, it was 500 million worth of FTT that Binance decided to sell. And it started a huge bank run, and eventually a few days later, I ended up with FTX being tits up. The FTX, just to give some context here, was valued at $32 billion in early 2020. And that's $22.

So what is that now? Like a $1.8 trillion. It's a minimum, at least. And then they also had large investors. Remember, we had Canada's very own Ontario teacher's pension plan. OTP and then Quebec invested in two rounds of FTCS. Good for them. Yeah, got burned twice, not once, but twice.

they failed to do their due diligence on Sammy Boy. The Miami Heat Arena had its naming rights with FTX. It was called the FTX Arena. 19-year deal, $135 million. Major League Baseball umpires had under sleeve FDX. University of Berkeley's football stadium

was named FTX Field. This shit went on and they were spending money left right and center. So more than anything, look, People, third largest exchange, they had naming rights with a number of different things. It looked like everything was rosy. This is a good reason why you don't leave your Bitcoin on any exchange. It may look good today, but tomorrow, it could be a totally different scenario. Take your Bitcoin off, trust yourself with your keys, sleep well at night.

What does they say about this? It hasn't been said already. We beat the source of death over the years. Is he, I think Boomer and Julian Figueroa have a bet that he gets out of prison before his sentence is up. I think it's like a million stats or something like that. Yes. What is it? What is the bet boomer?

Put it in the chat there and I'll, I'll mention it. Do you think he's in a serviceful sentence? I mean, Trump seems to be in a pardoning mood, though his crimes are pretty significant. So be curious. 15 years. I'm going with the under. Under, okay. I think I probably take the under, too.

Yeah. Yeah. He's already tweeting from jail or someone's tweeting on behalf. Somebody's doing it on behalf, yeah. Yeah, so if that's okay, no one seems to be mad about that. So whatever. It's just somebody taking hold of his account. It doesn't really change as, you know, he's still stuck in buying bars.

Either way, Doe Kwan is another one. Remember this guy spondal shit coins, the Terra Luna, Teriluna Classic, the Terra Luna stable coin, or not so stable, Dibblecoin. By the way, that's trading, it's still being traded to stable coin at 7 tenths of a penny. Incredibly it's still out there. It's worth of who's going to go,

who's going to zero first? Torstar or FTT? I'm going to tour star. Yeah, I can see that going to like literally zero and the other one's still having you know, a trillionth of a cent. It's going to have some market cap of like

50 bucks. But anyways, for Zokwan, crime. doesn't pay especially for doing shit coining because he is going to do some time in the United States U.S. prosecutors are asking him to do 12 years and it looks like he may get a fraction of that

if all goes as planned. This may be the proverbial slap on the wrist. And once his time is done in the U.S., it's not done because he will be extradited to South Korea where he may serve an extra 10 to 15 years because he fucked over their citizens as well and they want to make sure that justice is served over there. But I'm going to use this as a segue

to a different topic that's adjacent to it because we had the Samurai developer, Keon Rodriguez, you know, the mixing service, right? The verdict is in. He has to pay up $250,000, five years in jail.

And this all comes back from last July, this past July. He pleaded guilty to money transmitting charges. And remember, not too long ago, this guy was thumbing his nose at Uncle Sam. He was tweeting out there, putting out remarks about using, having

Russian people use a service and so they could bypass. Idiot. It just completely stupid, stupid, stupid. Stupid, super, stupid. And then you find out that they were stashing your UTXOs. Or your, um, your UTXO data. They were stashing it. They were keeping

it. That's a, that was you know, against their that guy turned out to be a fraud. He did. He did. in a different timeline I would love to know how much of a jail sentence

and fine he'd have to pay if he didn't go out and say bullshit against the US government if he would just remain quiet get served would it still be a $250,000 fine and a five year in jail

that's a good question I'd love to know but I'm not sure I guess I'll have to go 88 miles per hour and figure to shit out myself you ever hear about this guy Roman Novak I'm not sure if many people heard of him before.

No, no, I haven't. Well, I haven't really heard about him much this week, but Jameson Lop informed us about him. And he's been talking about all these type of people. This guy apparently was murdered following a ransomware plot that went sideways. And this guy, Novak, was a crypto millionaire, a Russian crypto millionaire. And he and his wife, Anna, they lived a very luxurious lifestyle. They flaunted expensive cars and flying on private jets. Maybe they're going to be going to COP 30.

I'll be talking about that a little bit. But they've been doing all this on social media. So they've been doing this in the fucking open and trying to monetize that at the same time. And well, early October, they went out to meet some quote unquote unidentified investors. And this was going to be near the UAE and Oman border, specifically in the Hata area within the UAE. and he was dropped off by his driver and he exited that entered a second car to be taken to the final location

this sounds like a fucking movie and that's the last time this guy and his wife were seen Roman sent the message to his contact saying he was stranded into mountains on the Oman border and desperately needed $200,000 shortly thereafter dismembered bodies of both he and his wife were found

and the guy lived a shady life he founded a platform called Fin Topio and had promised fast crypto transfers. It was involved with Web 3 and all that shit, defy. And, you know, lots of money was invested in it, including investors from Russia, China, and the Middle East. And then reportedly he fled with $500 million. So he made a lot of enemies, a lot of probably very powerful enemies. And as a result, now he's gone. He was actually convicted in 2020, November, for large scale fraud. And he was

sentenced to six years in prison, but he was granted parole and moved to the UAE. So more than anything, If you have Bitcoin, if you have a lot of Bitcoin, good for you. I wouldn't go out there flaunting it. Right. The best thing you could do is live a very quiet lifestyle. And you know what? You go fly under the radar. Don't be like these motherfuckers.

Don't be showing up that you're flying on private jets and renting and buying expensive cars. It is not fucking worth it because you have to have a team of bodyguards around you 24-7. And even then, who knows, maybe those body cards might be compromised. Just fucking live a good and quiet life. That's the way to do it as a fucking Bitcoiner. Remember that guy that bought that buy Bitcoin sign? Yeah.

Remember that he apparently he took the fucking subway in New York to meet up with the buy Bitcoin guy that had the, he was just a regular dude, bought the fucking the piece of paper and went back in the subway, went home. Just a regular dude, you would have never known that guy had a crap load of Bitcoin. It's just, that's what you got to be, that fucking guy. I don't know what the number is for Bitcoin price, but, um, you know, it's different, that number is different all over the world in terms of when you should go dark as a Bitcoiner. This guy was in Europe, I think, right? He was in Russia and

UAE. Okay, UAE. Like, I would say the Bitcoin price number there where you should go dark is pretty low. Um, might be a little higher in places like the States or Canada, but unfortunately, even in those places, it's getting lower all the time. Um, I would recommend people. If you're a Bitcoiner, you know, we talk all the time about how you have to have a security setup that makes it so your Bitcoin is not easily accessible. It doesn't sound like that would have helped this guy very much, unfortunately. But, you know, I think the point still stands that you're going to wind up with a lot of people thinking you have wealth that was unearned, undeserved, and maybe also as part of a zero-sum way of thinking about money in society

over the next 10 years. So have a setup that makes sense. Don't make it easy to get it your Bitcoin. Make it multi-jurisdictional, multi-stop, multi-sig, multi-whatever. Nobody should be able to come to your house, apartment, place of residence, whatever, and get your Bitcoin.

It should be impossible. There's no excuse for that at this point. It's been 3,000 something when we started doing the show. you know or whatever it was and now it's a hundred thousand and if you didn't set something up along the way I mean the best time to do it is now but you should have done it already and so think about that for yourself and for your family here ledger is going to be uh well these are thinking about doing an IPO ledger I'm a buyer day one sign me up what's the cost I'll put it next to

my coin base bags apparently they have a lot of revenue and they want to make sure that they capitalize on this revenue at this particular time and yeah so there's no definitive timeline or if indeed they're going to be going ahead with it but man ledger could you imagine that like a signing device a company that just makes signing devices and she one is at that they're going to fucking IPO like what a fucking the world was it this is ledger ledger there's a story like earlier this week about how somebody i guess bought a uh a ledger nano s or x or something or maybe one of the stacks devices and mbk was tweeting about it how he left the thing basically um he left it you know locked up cold storage whatever for a year or two years and went

back to it and the thing wouldn't hold a charge so he couldn't like access the screen the screen was like all dinged up or bent out of shape or something couldn't like it just wasn't working anymore like the quality of the parts was no good and so now the guy's like well if i didn't have my seed phrase, I'd be cooked, right? I say some negative things about cold cards from time to time. I had a cold card out here earlier. I don't know where I put it, but, you know, I say some negative things about cold cards all the time.

Yeah, see, we spend too much time messing with these gadgets. Anyway, the thing I'll say to people is that you can love or hate the cold card, but guess what? When you plug it in, the screen just works. You know, you don't have to worry about any of that stuff. You don't have to worry about issues with busted pixels or touchscreens not working. It's like a very, you know what it is, Len? It's the equivalent of a car without all the mechanical, or excuse me, the electrical nonsense that causes failures in other larger systems

in a car. And, you know, I don't know if MVP would find that to be a compliment or not, but I will say that his devices just have the lowest sort of threshold for working and avoiding failure due to, you know, sort of unforeseen or stupid circumstances around parts or manufacturing or whatever. It's just good stuff. Everything they make is just going to work forever. I mean, maybe not forever, but you get the idea. And this is a test one.

In case I was wondering, what the fuck am I doing? You can even see my seed phrases. One, two, the, to get into it, one, two, three, four, one, two, three. It's just a test. There's nothing on this, but if anyone wants to steal it from me, be my guest, you got fucking nothing as a result. I was messing around today with the multi-sig stuff on the queue. I was going to update it, and I thought to myself, I want to try, um,

like an expanded multi-sig setup just to see how difficult it is to execute on like a transaction side it's it's actually really easy i'm surprised how easy all this stuff is with a queue every time i try something because i see like a sessions video in my youtube algo or something i'm like oh i should i should try this and it always it's easy it takes like half an hour like it takes nothing it takes no time at all and people are they're sleeping on them still somehow i'm a big fan of the uh 26 words or 25th word um rather than multi thing, but do whatever you want in order whatever. Yeah. Yeah. There's a passphrase, right? That's a past phrase. Big fan of that. The best thing about the past phrase, man, it could be a fucking long one, right? It doesn't have to be one of the words that are on the BIP 39, is it?

Whatever the fuck it is. Yeah, it could be like a phrase. It could be anything you want. Could be something, uh, I don't know. What would you use? The Blue Jays lost in the game seven. The World Series to who. Yeah. What game are they losing? What, you know, like. Yeah. And if you change one character from capital to

lowercase or lowercase, it changes everything. Yeah. There's so many different ways you could do this. I like that, but yeah, teach their own, right? There's Bitcoin's beautiful. You've got to learn it though. You've got to learn it. Use it the way it should be. Don't trust these exchanges. Also, I wouldn't suggest

lending it out, at least to lava. I'm not sure if you heard about the story. Yeah, I did. This is an ugly one. They seem to have some kind of really social media heavy push over the last week or so and then just nuked from orbit by people who are saying this weird funds movement on the platform. Well, the weird funds, yeah, I'm going to just going to lay the table here for people wondering what the fuck we're talking about. It's lava is a business that's giving bitcoins out there an opportunity to borrow against their Bitcoin, 5%.

So rather than selling it, either Bitcoin and being subjected to capital gains tax, you could just borrow against it and then pay it back later on. And that way you don't have to pay to tax and you get access to your Bitcoin and potentially it's a win-win. And on top of this borrowing, they were going to be offering up, or they are offering up a earnings card where you could get paid up to 5% in Bitcoin who are making buys. So that's another way you could use their products and increase your stack. Lava, they say that they have raised $200 million to make this all a reality. And they've been doing this for the past six months or so. I think since March, they've been really going out there and starting to lay the groundwork for their product. And so the problem was revealed that it looks like the,

They, you know, the self-custody Bitcoin that they have, well, who knows what's going on? Because somebody that did use their service, they realized the Bitcoin they sent to Lava was moved to a different address without the customer's consent. It was an unknown address. So there's questions if indeed that they are custody the Bitcoin. Furthermore, because they operate on U.S. soil, they need to have money transmission licenses. And they don't seem to at least they don't present that they have it. People like Jack Muller's out there has been sending the war drum saying, look, this is what we have here at strike. And he showed the website.

He's like, here's what block has. He showed their website. And they have fuckloads worth of money transmission licensing that from various states. It's state by state. Yeah. It's the thing. Yeah. And since they operate on that, on US soil, there are also no K.

That could be a real mess. You know, you're doing a U.S. company doing money transmission without licensing, doing no KYC. They may not be cussing the Bitcoin. This could be a potential mess out there If anybody has used a lava service Certainly I would recommend You may want to just close out your loan Take the hit and

Just wait it out Because this could be really bad You could lose your coin as a result of all Once the regulators get a hold of them If the way things could play out They could put them through the ringers Yeah I mean there's nothing else to me to add there

You're playing with fire These guys you know, even if they're on the up and up as far as character, the likelihood that the government continues to allow them to operate is basically zero. So why would you leave your money with that platform? That's a great question.

And I think people may they see a nice tweet, a good social media post. Was it a big push. Was a big push? A lot of big names talking about it all of a sudden. Yeah. So fancy art and AI and all it. Like, yeah, I'm going to use this. I don't want to sell my Bitcoin. I'd rather just

But as somebody pointed out, just using the all-time high as making the lows, take the right as saying that timing is sucks if you're a customer of them, but who to hell knows what the all-time high is going to be tomorrow. Yeah, I see Fiske in the chat too saying they're seeding the SBR. Taking the Bitcoin. Yeah, maybe unintentionally, but you never know. You're right. Joey, we have a lot to talk about in the back half.

I suggest we just end the Bitcoin's time now and just transition to the other side of the show. We'll see you on the other side. If you're on audio, if you're on video or with us live on Twitter, hang in. We're not going anywhere. We're going to go talk about the latest and greatest over in notable news stories. So we'll see you on the other side. And don't mind your Bitcoin.