The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - CARNEY AND POILEVRE SQUARE OFF - ITS ELECTION SEASON IN CANADA | The CBP 208 Pt 1 (Bitcoin Podcast)

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESJoin us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. ITS ELECTION SEASON IN CANADA. TIME TO DIVE INTO THE CANDIDATES, THE PLATFORMS, AND WHO WE THINK IS MORE WELL EQUIPPED TO LEAD THE NATION. (Spoiler, neither of them.) From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord:   / discord   A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠www.easydns.com⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

Wow. Friends and enemies. I just noticed, Len, when I hit go live, it had 4K pre-selected. So hopefully- So we could see this in glorious HD. All the high def. Singapore dollar. Thank you to the individual. I don't want to name your name just in case we're- We already said. We already said Wedge sent it to us. Oh, why is it okay? Thank you, Wedge. I appreciate you sending this in. Did I say Wedge? I can't

remember. Yeah. We talked about it with the DVD too. We talked about... Well, friends and enemies, I guess. Welcome. I could spend it in one place. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Man, Len, we got a lot to talk about tonight.

It's good to see you. Happy Monday. Back to the snow on the ground this morning. Very disappointing. Definitely affected my mood when I woke up. How much you got? Not going to lie about that. It's on the get? I don't know. I'm not getting the snow blower out. I'm not going to mix any 50 to 1 up, but I'm just telling you that it's not great. If I ate a clock, it was melted away over here. I'm not sure if it was the same thing over there.

Right. It's the principle. It's almost April. It's March. I should be wearing shorts. It's March. I'm shocked we haven't got any big snowfall for the month of March. Normally it happens. It looks like we're not going to get one, which is fantastic, but we're going to get an election. This we have started. It's election season here in Canada. So gear up. We'll talk about that today. I thought my tag was going to be good, the long end of the yield curve, but yours is

even better. Breaking news, obviously, Carney refusing to do the French language debate. Did you see Blanchette talking to the press about an hour ago? Someone asked him if... I mean, we'll talk about this, but tensions rising. Someone asked him if he thought Carney was afraid of being able to speak French at the debate, and Blanchette said, what is Carney not afraid of at this point? I keep on hearing that he calls him this guy. He says, keep hearing this guy is tough enough to take on Trump. He can't even come to Quebec. Oh man. Blanchette, that's good shit. I heard Carney today's friend of the show who's not been on, but I'll have to have him on at some point,

Freddie Niu, UK crypto Bitcoin attorney said to me today that this documents about Carney being evicted from his UK, one of his UK apartments for not making rent or not following up on rent or mortgage. And in the document, it lists Carney as, it has like his vitals in the document. He's five foot four, I think he said five foot four, five foot five, peanut sized, peanut size. He put a mini bucket. Well, he's a Goldie, right? Back then Goldies were smaller. He's the Harvard Division I Goaltender. So how does that make sense? Well, no, so Goldies back in the day,

they were not very large, right? Patrick Gua broke the mold in the 80s as being a large Goaltender. So typically, you know, Fuhr was 5'10". Fucking Alan Bester, man, was five foot nothing and he started for the Leafs, right? I'm not a hater. I'm probably 5'9", 5'10", Fucking Alan Baster, man, was five foot nothing and he started for the Leafs, right? I'm not a hater. I'm probably 5'9", 5'10", on a good day.

If I got the right shoes on, I'm not going to pretend that I'm some giant, but 5'5", on a debate stage with Poliev, who's doing a cycle, looks like yesterday, he looked huge on stage. It's going to be hard to overcome that, I think. Have you ever punched in his name just in Google, Pierre Poliev? No. You do that right now. I want to see if you get the same picture I get from him, because the picture that shows up is a Bloomberg photo. And it doesn't look all that... Him walking out with a sad face, kind of looking...

Yeah. I find that to be... It's on purpose. I find it to be kind of funny when I saw this you know if you type in Mark Carney yeah what do you see um just his headshot smiling and everything like typical what you expect I hate these people I absolutely hate these people but the poly everyone is funny like what the photo is that google what are you doing? Absolutely insane. Well, let's talk about the sponsors. I guess we're going to get back to that. We're going to dance on something nice tonight for sure.

You and I. So we may as well start with the sponsors. Easy DNS. You can't dance on thin ice. Look, good sponsors and easy DNS has been a sponsor of the show. And Mark has been a friend to Len and I for years now. I just sent Mark a picture and posted it online actually of my daughter in her bomb thrower onesie. I don't think there's any infant on earth besides my little one who has a bomb thrower onesie. Can't beat it. Mark is the co-founder, I think, or did he buy the company?

I forget. E EasyDNS is his company. We use it for our website. We are under posting, under utilizing EasyDNS as far as like, an actual DNS domain host or provider, but you don't have to. You can use Mark as much as you want, and you can do so at a 50% discount if you use our code. You can go there and use his DNS registrar. You can bring a domain if you have one already or get one through Mark. Domainsure is a security suite that he uses. We talk about that every week on Accessive Easy, the other podcast we do for EasyDNS. And it'll ensure that you're not on the receiving end of an nefarious action from somebody like Lazarus or any of the other

oddly named, creatively named hacker groups out there. Not to mention Len, if you're a Bitcoin enthusiast, BTC Pay server, Nas Relay Bitcoin node, you can do it all over there with the virtual private server suite of options. You can't beat it. We try and make sure that we have the best in silo sponsors. I think we've done that so far with EasyDNS. I don't know if anyone would ever... You can't beat Mark.

Mark gives you your money back if you don't like the service. That's pretty rare. Accepts Bitcoin and other crypto. He can't be batting a thousand, but he does accept everything over there. And we'll never pull your stuff down. I know he's like, you don't have to say that every time, but it is true. Look at the last 10 years we just had where everyone and their brother was getting canceled. If you were on EasyDNS, you would not have been pulled down because Mark would not have allowed it. So go there, CBP Media is the code, start up a website and yeah, tell Mark we sent you or say hi to him in the chat. Maybe he's here tonight. I don't know. He comes sometimes to the Monday show.

Yeah, he does. It's good to see him when he does show up in the chat. Look, we got a second sponsor and what are you going to do? You have to buy Bitcoin, right? This is the Bitcoin show people want to buy Bitcoin. People want to have to get into Bitcoin. Where are you going to do it? In Canada and in parts of Europe, you could use bull Bitcoin to do that. And it's wonderful because it's not custodial like a lot of other exchanges. And why I say that is when you do buy from other exchanges, they hold onto your Bitcoin. There's a level of risk that comes along with that. If something happens, if the exchange gets hacked or it tits up, then you lost your Bitcoin. Bull Bitcoin doesn't give you an opportunity for this to happen.

Once you make your buy, you have to provide an address in order to facilitate the purchase. And this is what you want in exchange non-custodial. So bull Bitcoin, you can do it on chain. Lightning too, Lightning we'll talk a little bit about today, but on chain is still relatively cheap and look at the price right now, 87,000. So it could be a good time to buy. Lightning too, Lightning we'll talk a little bit today, but on-chain is still relatively cheap. And look at the price right now, 87,000. So it could be a good time to buy, it could be a good time to sell

whatever you think is the best for you. Either way, if it's high, the price of Bitcoin, then why not use that to pay some bills, right? Like use the bull Bitcoin bill service to pay some outstanding bills you have. And so you're kind of using your Bitcoin as a way to pay off some debt you have. Also, you could buy gift cards with the Bitcoin.

If you think the price of Bitcoin is rather high and it's not too high, not too bad, so use that to buy gift cards so you can start spending your Bitcoin indirectly in the real world. So check them out. If you have not yet opened an account, what are you doing? What are you waiting for? Open up an account using our referral code below and you do that. $21 will be added to your account once you provide necessary information and fund your account. So check them out. That's where I make my buys.

Huge. That's where I make my buys too. You guys ought to do the same boosts. Shall we? We, let's do that. Okay. We bien. Ah, D's laughs, 117 satz. He says testing one, two, three, because there has been some issues with me getting all the information. I think I got it all down. So yeah, it's two R's for cheery, isn't it? Definitely not Don Cheery. He's never been very cheery, that fella. Yeah. No, he has in the past. I got to remember to tell people, sometimes I put comments up in the chat and the audio people are

like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? Boomer just said he's going to tell his grandkids that we were Ron McLean and Don Cherry. Which one of us is Don? That's the question. I don't know. Top W Cone, 250 Sats. He writes in, Kentucky requires you to report any gold or silver you own on December 31st and the value at that day. You then have to pay property tax on it. If you sell any, you pay capital gains. And if you buy any, you pay sales tax. The sales tax is going away in June if the legislators don't change the law. So governments do what they can to make you report your gold buys. I did not know that was the case in some jurisdictions in Kentucky too.

That's crazy. Yeah. Kind of does make sense. Like what is gold? It's property, I guess. Right? I don't know. So I think that was a response to a comment which I made because I was saying, look, with

Bitcoin, you don't have to report it. Same thing with gold, right? Like why would you have to report one? You shouldn't have to report the other. So it makes sense. I can't believe that's the case in Kentucky either way. How many people are actually doing that? That's, that's gold is, that's really hard to enforce. There's a lot of the minimus amounts of gold, right? Like if you own a gold chain, do you

pay property tax on it? If you own a gold ounce, I don't know. It's hard to track that kind of stuff, especially because of the jewelry use case. Plus as Peter Schiff always points out, you know, like, are you, are you telling people that you have gold fillings, the gold in your computer, the gold in your phone? Where's the line? I don't know. There must be a line there somewhere. There's more to the story, I'm sure.

Well, MoBTC Dick writes in 475 Sats. He says, because Bitcoin is putting in work, Stoke to check out Vexel. And this is in response to an interview that I had with Michael DeGroote on Wednesday last week. And he was talking about Vexel as one of the peer to peer services, which you could buy and sell Bitcoin. So yeah. Yeah. Mike's been doing good work. Did you download the app? I have the app on my phone. It's pretty slick, I must say. No, I have not. Have you opened it and tried it out? Somebody has in their chat? No, no, no.

I haven't yet, but it does look pretty good. I think once there's a market established for some of these things over here, you'll have a little bit more fun with the P2P apps. And I think not that this is a problem for Vexel, but I think it has historically been a problem for HODL, HODL, and BISC, BISC especially. Because the people who are using it are really... They're sophisticated users, I think in a lot of cases. There hasn't been a big push for quality UI, for example. And so, that's a negative, I think, if you're trying to expand the P2P marketplace to people

who might just want to buy. Guys like, even at our level then, neither of us are using P2P exchanges for the time being. But if the opportunity presented itself and it was something you wanted to do or you wanted to sell, for example, I don't know if I'd buy P2P, but I could be convinced to sell probably. Why wouldn't you be opt to do one but not the other? I don't really care who knows if I buy, but I'd rather have plausible deniability if I sell, right? Certainly, but-

That's the case I think I'd- I mean, this is going into a discussion we probably shouldn't talk about right now, but if you happen to have Bitcoin and you want to exchange it for fiat without using exchange, what are the options you have? A peer-to-peer is like- That's it. That's it. And so, I mean, if there are people up there using it and there's, and there's

enough feedback about a particular user, um, yeah, yeah. Because BISC does give you the opportunity to provide feedback on users. And so, and there's one good guy in our chat and our discord, I forget his name. He talks highly of BISC. BISC, yeah. He does. This is good. The app is nice.

And they made a significant improvement, I think last... No, God, it wasn't last year. It was probably two years ago or three years ago now to the UI. It's nice. Don't get me wrong. It's not unusable, okay? But it could be better is all I'm saying. No, Bitcoin itself, period, could be better.

The user experience with Bitcoin, it needs work. But you know what? Who cares? It will get done. But anyways, let's move on. Two more boosts to right. JR 5000 stats. Thank you very much. It says, at Joey, I don't always agree with your takes, but always respect your proof of work, your segment on the mids barking at us to quote, buy Canadian and quote, toughen up, hit the bullseye. I appreciate you both. And he gives a salute. Salute. I've received a lot of good feedback on that little rant. I didn't love having to give it, but I think a lot of us are probably experiencing similar things to what I'm experiencing when I go places and people tell me I got to have my elbows

up and all this other nonsense. What are you really asking me to support here? And I think it's important to remind people what the last few years have been like. And Michael DeGroote last, he's boosted himself. Not only boosted as the show that he was on 9,000 sats. Thank you very much. Great episode. Thank you for having me on and handshake. So I appreciate you.

And yeah, we'd like to have you back on. Mike's great. Absolutely. Anytime, anytime. If you guys have guests you want to have come on the show, we're happy to take some nominations here. It's my turn on the interviews coming up. Len is doing a solid job for, I think, four weeks now, three or four weeks. I might have to book one or two more. I'm trying to figure it out. Okay. Find out. I'll tell you, me and Cove wallet developer Praveen will be doing a show Thursday

at six. Len is going to try and make it. You're going to try and have some sats handy to test the wallet. And I have to remind myself to ask Praveen to get on the test flight, the Apple beta test. Cause I do want to put it on my phone before the show. Next week, Dave Bradley is going to come by on April 2nd. Has he, is he number one in terms of the number of appearances that he's got? He's got a couple of weeks before the show. So he's going to be on the test flight. So he's going to come by on

April 2nd. Has he? Is he number one in terms of the number of appearances? He's got to be close. You know who's probably up there too unintentionally is Carlo Campisi. Boomers? Yeah. Boomers up there for sure as a host, not so much as a guest. Just period. Just boomers. Yeah. Him, SB probably up there. There's a few others. Who are the multiples we've had? Right? I mean, Francis has been on three times, I think. Who else?

Mario Gibney a couple of times at least. Gibney. I don't know where that guy is. I'd love to talk to him with all the AI stuff going on. I tried it with him not too long ago. How long is not too long? Half a year ago, we tried it through an app and next time I'm into downtown core, I'm going to have to link up with him. Totally. Tell him I want to talk to him.

That was downtown very recently, but I had a quick in and out, so I didn't have time to do anything. That's life. That's life. But no, so Dave's going to come on. I told Steve Soretsky I would send him a few times, so I will have him on at some point, but we'll figure it out. Lenny, you want to do one or two more? No problem. I'm happy to pick up the slack on that.

Yeah. You just need to see the schedule go from there. Yeah, totally. And I think that's it before we could dive right in, Joey. I'm ready. Let's get to it. Bitcoin will keep kind of short because I think, again, the back half of the show is going to be the longest part. I don't think there's a way around it. There's going to be a lot more to talk about there, which is, you know, I got a request today, Len, from someone who listens to the show that we should do a second podcast. That's just like our cultural

slash political takes. And, uh, I dunno, I, I, I'm, I don't really want to start a new show, but there's demand for it. There seems to be demand. Don't forget, we split the Bitcoin and what used to be called Clown World, now it's called Notable Stories, because people wanted those stories broken up. And now there's even more demand for the back half. But I don't want to be a political show. This is a Bitcoin show. It's a Bitcoin focused show. There's some economic talks and politics talk. But at the end of the day, the thing that ties us all together really is the corn. So I appreciate the desire to hear us go back and forth about politics and culture. I'll probably save it for the kitchen table, honestly. Especially with summer coming up, it's going

to be more challenging. Yeah. I don't want to add more to the schedule. I mean, I love you all, but I want to certainly get more tennis involved. Anyways, let's dive right in and we'll kind of keep it on the brief side for the Bitcoin stuff. So my apologies. Number one, we'll talk about this strategy, formerly known as MicroStrategy,

announcing more fiat offerings for people up there. Something called Strife, S-T-R-F, that is a ticker name. And it's, according to Michael Saylor himself, this is a new perpetual preferred stock offering, and it's available only to institutional investors and select non-institutional investors. So sounds like retail won't- This is the same as STRK, right? That was the same wording. Kind of. STRK, I believe, has an 8% yield. Where does the yield come from too? No, no. The yield I'm saying, but I more mean the target audience, right? All institutional and some retail, basically, is the way it's worded.

But STRK, could anybody buy that? It's available just for... A lot of people can. Like Mark was telling us, he had it on his Big Six Bank brokerage app. It's there on mine as well, but it's not on Wealth Simple, which probably tells you something. I don't know. And STRF or Strife, I think that's just going to be only select few are going to be able to take advantage. There's another thing too. It comes with at least a 10% per annum yield on that. Where does the yield come from? This is a question that I would love to find out between STRF and STRK.

Each of them have a decent yield. We laugh at DeFi. Could it be DeFi strategy? Is this gonna be their new name moving forward? I don't know. But to their credit, they did sell five million shares of the strife. And it looks like they use that to buy quite a bit of Bitcoin today. So this is their MO. They're going to sell whatever. And with the gains from that, they're going to use the majority, if not all the proceeds to buy

Bitcoin, which I think that's a pretty interesting model until it's not able to continue to be done. Eventually, you're going to have to pay back something. I just think that you're going to just continually get into debt. That's what the debt is cheaper for them than what the gains are with the Bitcoin, what they perceive to be the gains and whatever. It's an interesting strategy for them, for strategy at that. So I just got to say that interesting, but still not available to lead stocks, at least not directly, maybe indirectly retailer could get in, retail investors could get in and- What did you say the ticker was? Is it Strife, STRF? STRF, correct.

I don't have it. I do have Strike, but I don't have Strife. Yeah. So this is probably the big boys that are able to get in. He's giving it. This is a minimum of 10% yield, depending on some sort of scenarios and how things work. It could go up from there. So a lot of, I guess if you're looking for a steady stream of income, you know, if you're going to buy a bonds from X nation and get 7, 8%, this is a little bit more. Is this safer? It's up to you to decide. But certainly there was a lot of interest in this because they were able to sell 5 million

of these shares. Yeah. Somebody bought them. Wasn't you, wasn't me, but somebody fucking bought them. And what did you do? You bought Bitcoin with it. So good for strategy for buying Bitcoin. But I'm at least there's a little bit concern on my part, the yield part, maybe a lot of

concern. This is great from Yoshi on Twitter. I didn't know you could comment on Twitter into the chat, but I'm putting this up on the chat. Maybe they can guarantee 10% because they can keep moving the price by themselves by far more than 10% for now. They've had trouble doing that in the last three months. Right. When you're moving the price themselves, you're talking about the price of Bitcoin. Yeah, of Bitcoin. So they can just keep using that. Exactly. And that really impacts the price of their stock.

They're betting big on the price. Like at this point, Saylor is no longer betting on the tech, right? He's no longer betting on this thing being independence money, freedom money, whatever you want to call it. He's betting on the tech, right? He's no longer betting on this thing being independence money, freedom money, whatever you want to call it. He's betting on the price going up and he's betting big on it, like hundreds of billions of dollars, probably in terms of the actual value of the stuff that it would cost him if he went under. Yeah. Yeah. Someone else's. Yeah. It's people that buy into this, right? If somebody has one share or more of MicroStrategy or they have STRK or STRF, they're the ones that are going to be impacted

from this. And what's the old saying, right? For people who are taking the debt from MicroStrategy, if MicroStrategy owes you a hundred dollars, it's your problem or their problem. If they owe you a hundred million, it's your problem. And so this is a law of large numbers type thing here. We'll see what happens with this. But yeah, the other thing I still don't really understand, I've been a micro strategy bull for a long time. I still think that stock is going to hit a thousand bucks sometime in the next year or two. Fine. But again, like you're playing dangerous games and Yochi also mentioned that perpetuals, like the perp swaps, they're not, these are not sound instruments. And so if you want to, if you want to play

something high beta to Bitcoin, I would say MSTR is like as far as you should go. There's no need to get into this yield stuff. There's no need to get into STRF. There's no need to get into, you know, all this. It's dicey. It's getting more dicey by the day. And if the price doesn't move on, you know on half a billion dollars it buys, what did he buy today? 500 million, something like that? I don't know the exact number, but I remember you... So the price is not really moving that much. One or two points on 500 million. And by the way, that includes good tariff news. That includes the Fed moving toward quantitative easing. That

includes... What's his name there? Bostic, Raph Bostic saying this thing inflation is going to come down in 2% till 2027. All these things are good for Bitcoin usually. And to see the price you know, what's his name there? Bostic, Raf Bostic saying this thing inflation's gonna come down in 2% till 2027. Like all these things are good for Bitcoin usually and to see the price move two points in addition to getting the MSTR by the STRF, excuse me, by whatever you wanna call it. Not great.

I would say that this is getting to be, maybe not precarious, but it's definitely getting to be a little bit dicey. I just wanna note as well, I just looked at my TD app to check if I could get these STRFs. You know what TD charges for a stock trade? 15 bucks. 10 bucks. You buy more than one share, it's 10 bucks flat rate. Crazy. That's nuts, man. You can get free trading anywhere in the world and these guys are still charging 10 bucks. They're toast. Banks are fucked. In many ways, but yet people still use their services.

They're not valued at what they are because people are shying from them. Fuck, people are happily parking their money. Myself included, right? Like my paycheck doesn't come to me in cash. It goes to gets deposited, right? And I'll try to buy Bitcoin with that, but still I have to use their services.

I don't use their... I have to say this, I haven't bought a fucking share on anything in fucking years. I'm not in any, like maybe CBP may be doing it on my behalf, but I'm not fucking directly doing this. So somebody's doing it for me, but I have no say in that either way. The SBR, we should talk a little bit more about that. The strategic Bitcoin reserve, because there's, you know,

how they're going to be able to get Bitcoin, accumulate Bitcoin. People should look at Bhutan, especially the people looking at managing the SBR as potentially one way to do this, because they have established a great way, I'm talking about Bhutan, for the time being at the very least, that they have been able to get Bitcoin. And they've been using this as a sovereign nation, Bitcoin mining, and they're using surplus electricity, electricity that they would normally sell at a discount to their neighboring countries.

And they're using that instead to demonetizing that and buying Bitcoin, or mining Bitcoin. And they've been mining this for several years. And all this time they've accumulated around 11,000 Bitcoin. That's about 1 billion USD. These are round numbers I'm giving, which is a decent amount, 11,000 Bitcoin for the country of Bhutan. I took a little bit more,

like a just more in-depth analysis into this. Bhutan's GDP, the last information I saw from Google was from 2022. So things have changed since then. But at that time, it was around 3 billion USD was their domestic GDP. 3,700 USD per capita. So $3,700 per capita. So that's if you want to just use that metric because it seems to be a better metric. So in terms of the Bitcoin they got, it's around 1700 Bitcoin,

$700 per person from Bitcoin that they own. So it's 0.02 Bitcoin per person around $1700. So it's nearly about half as much Bitcoin per person as they have as a GDP. So this is what they've been able to accumulate just freely just for using excess electricity, which makes sense. So it's a very efficient way, at least for the time being to mine Bitcoin, every four years there's a halving, so it gets harder and harder to mine Bitcoin. Plus there's more and more equipment being added to the network and the self-adjustment

makes it harder to mine Bitcoin over time, but still it works for them. So going back to the SBR, they should look at the opportunity of selling, or not selling, of using excess electricity to mine Bitcoin. They're not going to sell their excess electricity to neighboring countries. Look at Canada and Mexico, if anything, the times are saying they're probably not going to deal with them for the most part. So anything extra they have, they're probably keeping themselves. So what the f**k are you going to do with it?

Mine Bitcoin. It only makes so much sense. There's only so much they could store. going to do with it? Mine Bitcoin only makes so much sense. There's only so much they can store. So and in terms of the states that have excess electricity, just a few of them, Wyoming, North Dakota, West Virginia, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Texas, Montana. That's a lot of problems are a lot of states and they have access and there's states that don't have it. They have they have to import it. California, a large state that needs it. Virginia, Ohio, Massachusetts. So yeah, but it's not like you could easily transport that electricity from one place to another if it's long distance. It's just going to be like a lot of the loss to transmission and transporting. So it only makes

sense to just use it locally and mine Bitcoin. That makes sense for the SBR to be. Even Pakistan, I mean, I could go a little further here. Their central bank is saying they're exploring the opportunity of mining Bitcoin with excess electricity because they have frequent times where they have too much electricity. Makes sense. They've been putting up a large number of coal-fired power plants, including wind and solar farms. Good for them. Let's make use of that. So this is what's gonna happen moving forward. The SBR, I think, should look into this. Do you think they're going to?

Probably not. That's like the zero chance. What options do they have? Okay, what I think is more likely, let's assume that guys like Basent and Lutnik, who both understand Bitcoin, let's assume that guys like Bascent and Lutnik who both understand Bitcoin, let's presume they understand mining. Let's presume they understand energy and let's presume they understand all this stuff about

excess power and going to Bitcoin mining and why it makes sense, blah, blah, blah. They'll never do it. But what they could do is reward companies that do by buying shares in those companies using this new sovereign wealth fund. It's good for Americans, it's good for American companies, and it's good for the strategic reserve. The bigger question for me is, do you want the government either mining on their own or owning companies that mine with the expectation that they're going to give some of the mined proceeds to the strategic reserve?

I don't think you want that. I think you, you would prefer if energy and commodities go to the people first and to private industry first. And then those people get to decide what they do with it and are rewarded in the marketplace, the equity market, the movement of capital, whatever. That's what you want. And so when people say they want the government to look into this stuff, I think what, what I would really prefer is that second, you know, movement of capital, whatever. That's what you want. And so when people say they want the government to look into this stuff, I think what I would really prefer is that second scenario. So are they going to do either one? I don't know. But I could see the sovereign wealth fund

investing in companies that mine Bitcoin. One, because I think the guys get it, like I said, but the other thing then I think you're probably right in that there's only so much longer you can go without doing this for. So you're going to be investing in these companies. If you're buying S&P index funds, you're going to be buying ExxonMobil that's doing this stuff. If you're trying to support domestic oil and gas because of the trade war, if it keeps up, all this stuff is going to require capital to flow into these companies and the companies are going to do the right thing. And if we think the right thing is Bitcoin, then they'll get exposure. And that's how they'll wind up getting it. And if a government minds Bitcoin, is it a negative, a positive, neutral?

I don't know. It's positive for the price. If the government comes out in a month or a year, whatever, and says, yeah, we're setting up a warehouse of miners, one of the data centers we're building is going to be a Bitcoin miner, then yeah, that's a 20% day for Bitcoin. But if a company like Exxon, who's mining, I think Exxon was running a pilot scale operation a few years ago, they may still be running it. All of them were probably running something. There's no fucking chance. So let's say one of them is actually now willing to go the extra step and say, yeah, we're going to establish some behind the meter minimal mining operation, let's say. It's going to be one warehouse of S21

Ultras, Submerged in olive oil, whatever the hell these guys are doing now. And that's good for Bitcoin. And that may be another strong indicator if the government decides they want to buy that company in the sovereign wealth fund, then that's strong too. I don't think that's a 20% day. If the government comes out and behind the desk in the oval says anything about we're mining Bitcoin, we're buying Bitcoin, we're doing whatever, it's huge. Anything else like a secondary exposure, tertiary exposure, whatever, that's good. But we don't need that.

Bitcoin enthusiasts and maxis, we're already pretty sure it's going to happen. Doesn't affect my conviction. What would affect my conviction would be the government saying that they're going to mine. That would be significant. It'd be interesting. It changes nothing for me in terms of my level of conviction. Really, it's just you're parlaying excess electricity into what? Potentially getting Bitcoins from mining. Anybody could do that. If you want to set up a power plant, harvest the power of the sun or the wind and start using that to mine Bitcoin, you have every opportunity to do that. So if a country wants to do that...

The other thing too though, like corporate mining in America is way far and above anything you see anywhere else in the world. And as we know, if the USA gets a hold of a payment system or a monetary system, what happens? They do censor, they do pressure to censor, they do pressure to remove. So you get that risk too, right? There's a lot at stake here when it comes to mining, thanks to the mechanisms, but this is not necessarily... But this is not necessarily... Are you talking about censoring transactions? Yeah. So that's a good segue to the next topic, which would be Stratum V2.

And there's the first Stratum V2 pool may be coming very soon. It's called Demand Pool. DMND, Demand Pool. And for now, they're trying to attract people to come in or miners to come in. You have to apply to get approved and if you are it's going to be 0% fee for the first two months. So I'm assuming it's likely going to be big miners that are going to be first enabled to use their pool. None of us garage miners using bid axes will probably be unable to get in, but what do I know?

For stratum v2 though What this does it enables you to build your own blocks the individual miner to build your own blocks And that's what gets around the whole censorship thing is right now you if you join a pool Pick a pool any pool The block is built by the pool manager or whoever's administering the pool themselves. You're just providing hash power and somebody else is building the block. They're adding whatever transactions they want

into that block that's being built. With Strata V2, the individual miner has the opportunity to do it. So that takes away that whole censorship thing. So it decentralizes mining in a big way. Furthermore, it increases security because there's end to end encryption built into this and it prevents something called a man in the middle of attack. So, and furthermore, it optimizes data transfer.

So it makes things more efficient between the miners and the pool itself. And furthermore, the last thing that demand is doing, they're trying to put out this new payment system called Slice. I don't know much about it, but apparently it's going to maximize minor payouts with no hidden fees. Let's see if it works. But what you should be looking at more specifically here is Stratum V2.

We don't have any yet. The closest we have to something like this is Ocean's Datum. And so we have now Stratum V2. It's been a long time coming. And finally we have one. I'm not sure what the technical hurdles, if there's any still exist, but this is what we need with respect to mining moving forward, because this will take away any pressures from it saying it's centralized and there could be sensor transactions. This is the best thing for us.

Okay. Question for you. Where's the hash rate going to come from to populate this pool? Initially? Yeah. Like I say, it says it's 0% fees for the first two months. So any miner out there that is mining with a pool and is paying more than zero, probably we'll put a little bit over here, give it a shot and see what the payout is. Plus, including that new slice payment system, I think they would like to see how it works in the end. If it's more profitable to do like this, then use say F2 pool or something else. And certainly they're going to move all their hash power to this. So it could be from anywhere. It could be from one of the big miners publicly traded or not. Not a lot. They'll send us some of their hash power over. That's my guess.

Yeah. Like a half migration or something. Not a lot. They'll send us some other Hushpower over. That's my guess. Yeah. Like a half migration or something. Maybe like a 10th or a 100th. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like something really small, right? I don't know. It's... This is mining now, pools specifically, are becoming inescapable because of network effect. No one's leaving the brain's pool for this just because of the anti-censorship features, I don't think. Why not? I just don't see it happening because you're significantly lowering the chance that you

hit a block. So even with the no fees, all the other stuff, like you're mining at the end of the day, let's face it, to do one thing and it's try and hit that block, right? And it's cool if it has a CBP logo on it's try and hit that block. Right. And you know, it's cool if it has a CBP logo on it or looks cool in your garage, but that's what you're trying to do. And those pools, they're just not going to shed hash on the basis of virtue. At least I don't think they will. And the corporate miners, you know, the big corporate miners don't enter into public pools. They're running their own pools.

So what? Which big public miner is not running its own pool? None of them. If you go look at Mempool.space, you could see all the pools out there. And Mara is the only one that Marathon, they run their own. Marathon has their own? Marathon, DMG blockchain. What's that? FG blockchain. I'm going to go look right now. DMG blockchain runs their own mining pool, I believe. Very small.

I'm going right now. So no, they're all just attaching to somebody else. Oh my God. I typed in mempol.space. What's this woman doing on my screen? And I think- She made that my tag. Your wife loves my mempool. Yeah. Luxor, that's not its own. Ampool is its own. Foundry USA is its own. F2, what else here? SEC Pool, I don't even know what that one is. Via BTC, presumably a public pool. Marathon is its own. Binance is its own.

These are all public. These are all like you just join in. Somebody's running it and it's not like it's administered by... Okay. What's a better way to put this? The better way to put it is if you jump into a pleb pool, let's say, compared to a corporate pool is maybe what I should have said. What's a pleb pool versus a corporate pool?

A pleb pool would be like, I don't know. Let me go look here. Is it all club pools that everybody's joining in? Yeah. But is it fair to say that F2 pool is more of a club pool than Mara pool? It's Chinese. So F2 pool is certainly Chinese. F2 pool has centered transactions of the past as per OFAC instructions. Yeah, we talked about that.

Marathon is a public traded company, so they're going to bow down to any sort of regulations that's been passed on. So that's what I mean. Like there's corpo pools and there's pleb pools. Let's say that's the distinction. Oh yeah, brains would probably be more of a pleb, I'm guessing. Right, right. So what I'm asking is like, what's the motive for,

there's no motive for a corpo pool hasher to jump, even individual hasher. What's the motive for the pleb individual hasher to jump? They could build their own, their, build their own thing, their own, their own block. I don't think it's enough. It doesn't matter if it's infrequent. If you join F2 pool, you're still going to get more payouts, but just a smaller slice because you have a large people, right? Versus a smaller pool, you'll get less payouts, less frequent payouts, but larger payouts because you're going to be providing a large amount of hash comparatively to the overall network. So it's the only one

that seems to buck the trend. And Bob Burnett has talked about this quite a bit on Twitter or at... Bob Burnett also a candidate for most appearances on this show, I think. Yeah, I got to bring him back on. Yeah, he's been on a bunch. He's mentioned that he, for whatever reason, Ocean gives him the most revenue. He gets the most out of... He's in the sweet spot there.

Yeah. The less payouts, but bigger payouts, right? Well, either or he's getting just more compared to others. So for whatever reason, Ocean, their setup, maybe they're more lucky or maybe there's something more to it. It's more profitable for him to point his hashrate towards Ocean and another pool. And he's written about this extensively. So somebody can just check it out if they want. So some debate in the chat here,

tore up saying people are lazy, Heoshi disagrees, people will leave. I'm not sure where I come down, but we're gonna find out because everything's transparent. So we're a couple months away here from seeing some trends starting. One thing about this dope, I'm talking about the demand pool. They raised capital funding, so venture capital investments was done in order to help facilitate this. So they're going to obviously be subservient to the people that lent them money. That could be the one thing here that may be problematic. But if the miners themselves are building their own

blocks, I don't know, I got to see this play out before I think this is a negative or positive. It just, yeah. Early days, early days. We don't have to have it a conclusion yet. Yeah. Remember back October, I think last year, HBO ran that documentary. Yeah. Who is Satoshi?

Money, whatever the fuck it was called. No, then they find, then it wasn't HBO, the guys who tried to find Satoshi. That was it. It was electric money. Is that the title of it was? Yeah. They pinned it on Peter Todd has been. Yeah.

Yeah. So the shit coiners are now going to get a bone thrown to them because Apple TV and prime TV plan to premiere on April 15th. So just three weeks from now, give or take something called Vitalik, the Ethereum story. And I'm wondering, you listened to Bankless, did they talk about this at all? They must have been just jizzing all over this. I haven't listened to Bankless in a while, but as I usually do Mondays, I pulled it up just to see if I was missing anything. Hilarious titles the last few episodes. The Friday review episode they always do.

Ethereum's leadership move, Solana's inflation debate, and crypto's macro struggle. I don't know if crypto's gonna be having the same problems that Bitcoin. Bitcoin's not having any problems at all. And then today, Ethereum's next big upgrade, Pectra, Fusaka, and Beyond. What the fuck is going on over there?

The names they put for these things. I love it. Why don't you worry about fucking 3K instead of fucking Fusaka? I mean, getting into a new all-time Haya before you worry about these other fucking upgrades. You know, like you're down to 2000, you're at 2015 levels or whatever the fuck. Compared to- Give me a break, man. Bitcoin, it's taking a beating. Oh my God. Deserves, by the way.

The fucking thing, ultrasound money, it's going the wrong direction now. They have more emissions than Bitcoin does again. You have people like Meltem Demirror, who's like the ultimate, six out of 10 on the hot scale grifter, taking advantage of all these fucking soy boy losers who have never seen a woman in real life before going to these conferences and getting sold every fucking snake oil and Elixir that she can possibly peddle to a crowd of fucking idiots now talking about all the proof of Was it proof of steak emerge was that the merge right or the purges of the splurge?

Whatever it was right. Yeah, it was a mistake. We should have gone back like you guys are so fucking dumb You guys are so fucking dumb. You guys are so fucking dumb. Yeah. Well, that came. Are you going to be watching this documentary? Apparently, I'm going to watch it. I have a viewing party.

Yeah. I'm inviting you. You coming over? I'll make some popcorn. I've been seeing some good YouTube shorts on how to make homemade popcorn. Maybe I'll throw some on the stove. It's a Tuesday. I'll pass.

Yeah. I'll throw some on the stove. It's on a Tuesday, I'll pass. Yeah, apparently it's going to be talking about, let's see, chronicling his tech vision and the Ethereum community. Are they going to have him dancing in the fucking rabbit suit? How much are they going to document? Picking his nose and eating it in the crowd at permissionless or whatever? Is that going to be on there? Where do we stop? Are they talking about-

Him saying the child porn has no victims? Oh my God. Yeah. He's a fucking clown. I hope they go into all that stuff. But with all this being said, we can't overlook the fact that they rolled back the blockchain. Remember, okay guys, you can stop trading. Yeah. So, like, it's truly, it is centralized. I don't know why they would invest any time and effort into it, but I guess there's enough

shit coiners out there that's going to lap this video up and enjoy it. So good on you. I'm not going to watch. I didn't watch the one on Satoshi. So why would I even bother watching this? Yeah, I didn't watch it. I probably will. Why would I even bother watching this? Yeah, I didn't watch it. I probably will watch this though, to be honest with you. I listen to Bankless every so often, so what's another hour of my time?

I'll get on the recumbent bike, or the spin bike I should say, and just watch it. Did you see that Tales from the Crypt, they posted something interesting about the Lightning Network? TFTC? Yeah. You know they got a cease and desist. Tales from the Crypt, they posted something interesting about the Lightning Network. TFTC? Yeah. You know, they got a cease and desist. They have called themselves Truth for the Commoner now. Tales from the Crypt is an old Nickelodeon show.

Yeah. So they got the C-C-Crit master. Yeah. I used to watch that. Yeah. Awesome show. Yeah. This is like the early nineties. I know. I know. It was on TV when I was to watch that. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. This was, fuck, this was like the early 90s.

I know. I know. It was on TV when I was a young lad. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyways, I didn't realize that there was a TFTC then. I apologize. Sorry, Nickelodeon. Don't send us anything. Yeah. Fuck you guys. So it was the post that they put on there was mentioning that the transaction volume of the lightning network has been growing quite a bit in August of 2000 sorry 2023 so just less than two years ago, the volume totaled for November 2024, it reached 285 million. That's a huge difference. And I'm wondering too, how much of this can be attributed to Zaps on Nostra? Because I think a lot of people are just sending small amounts of Bitcoin for posts that they like or just things that they like in general.

And I'm wondering how much of this is being contributed to that 285 million just for the month of October, sorry, November of 2024. And also another thing to consider too is the number of exchanges that have allowed people to buy using Lightning. And if you look at it, it goes up like I have a little chart here and it's just every year there's more and more exchanges that get on board, including bull Bitcoin. You can buy through Lightning with bull Bitcoin. But Lightning, you know, it works great for high fee environments, but really it does have its challenges, the scalability to all 8 billion people or how many earn it doesn't work right now. So, but for right now, it seems to be working. There are limitations, but it is successful

for what is being used right now. I know that the UX in it is challenging, like managing liquidity, channels. Yeah, channel management's like a huge hurdle for people. It really is, but once you figure it out, then it becomes not easy, but at least you are your own bank, especially when it comes to Lightning, right? Because then you are then hosting everything and it's all in-house.

So yeah, I just looked at this and I didn't realize that the amount of transactions on Lightning has spiked that much in a short period of time. Good or bad for long-term network longevity that Lightning is absorbing transaction fees? I think it's good overall. I think it's negligible. I don't think it's measurable in terms of what it's doing right now. Well, maybe it is measurable. Fees are super low, right? What are they?

Yeah. Are they still a couple of sats of V-Buy, maybe it is measurable. Like these are super low, right? Like what are they? Yeah. Like a couple of sats of V-Buy, whatever it is. I'm wondering how much it has to do with just an ETF being available and if people want exposure to it, they don't want to deal with buying it through an exchange and holding it on their, like using their own node or their own cold card

or whatever. I'm just wondering what the fuck. I think the ETFs are taking a lot of the load for better for worse. The replacement, even the replacement fees right now, like RBF is seven sats per V-Bite. That's super low. Yeah, that's like what? 60 cents? 70 cents? You know, we didn't talk about, I don't know if you do want to talk about, is I gave you something. I gave you a piece of hardware. It's shit.

Len Len bought me a computer off some geezer on a Kijiji or whatever and put a note on there for me and started thinking it on start. Oh, S it's all unusable. It's complete. It is completely archaic. That's the fucking, the O S is in a fucking browser window. It, you have to clear the cash and the cash and the browser constantly needs to be cleared because if you don't clear it, then the Bitcoin thing won't run.

If the Bitcoin thing's not running, you can't sync the node. It's impossibly annoying. It's not difficult. It's annoying. That's startOS. Pick something else. I'm going to buy a Ronin Dojo or something. Just spend a couple hundred bucks on the thing.

Just sits on my desk and looks cool. I don't get it, Joey. People have spent weeks trying to sync their node on say a Raspberry Pi 3. You can do it. Just go through the process. It's not instant gratification. But it's not, but the problem is that I can't just wait. The problem is that I can't wait.

The problem is when I, when I wait, I go to the laptop, see what's happening and the thing isn't running because the cache and the browser needs to be cleared. And then it's like, it has problems with the syncing. It has to like reattempt the sync over and over again. And so it'd be fine if it was like working AFK, but it's not. That's the problem. See, yeah. See, Paulie's right. Like you just need fuck. I didn't want to give him Linux. I just put on start OS. I thought it was going to be the easiest and I just gave him this. I'm going to have to get Ubuntu now on a thumb drive.

Yeah. Or Mint. That's generally considered very easy to give Mint a shot. And then you could run knots and you're rocking and rolling. And then, then you know what people, then there's nothing to say about Joey not running a node. He's almost there. When I gave him this, I just want to note that Len is doing this as a service to me, but all you guys chirping me in chats and discords and Twitter, fuck you. I don't care what you think. If I don't want to run the node, I'm not going to run it. If Len didn't buy this for me, I wouldn't wake up in cold sweats thinking, Oh my God, the CBP chat's telling me I got to run node.

Absolutely. I don't have to do anything. I am my own man. I can do whatever I want. I can run a node or I can not run a node. Absolutely, I don't have to do anything. I am my own man. I can do whatever I want. I can run a node or I can not run a node. Anything I want to do, I can do it. That's how life is. That's for friends and for enemies.

If I don't want to do it, I'm not doing it. That's all there is to it. And no, Paulie's right. Like I should have just loaded it with Linux. Why didn't you buy me a nice $2,000 start nine kit? What happened? Like, come on, what are friends for here? The machine I have literally two feet from me is a 15 plus year old laptop.

The thing is fucking ancient. I upgraded the RAM, I upgraded the storage and it runs it fine. It's running Debian and I'll be a little slow, but on it, it just fucking does the sinking of the Bitcoin core. I know I'm not running knots. I don't give a fuck. I just, I'm happy with core. Yeah.

And it works for me. If that 15 year old piece of shit laptop could fucking do it for me, people run it on Raspberry threes, Raspberry Pi threes, and those are severely underpowered. It takes weeks to fucking sink. And you know, the problem is thinking now the sinking takes forever. The last little bit. Oh fuck. It's like impossibly slow.

Yeah. And it's because of this spam that took place and that is it. If you, if you look at when it, um, when the slowdown happens, it happens somewhere around 2003 ish, I guess, up until then, it breezes. It's a quick, relatively quick process, then as soon as you fucking get to the spam, it slows down. So that's a real world problem of what happens with the spam. It's yeah, it's funny and blah, blah, blah. But the IBD takes forever as a result, especially when you have underpowered equipment. All you really need is time and patience. And once it's done, it's done. I'm looking up right now, what was the name of that? The Ronin Dojo? Is that what it was called?

You have the piece of equipment. You don't need to fucking change it. Just fucking install, sit back and relax. Put the mint on there and then enjoy. It's going to work. Hardwire it too. Don't deal with the Wi-Fi bullshit. My Wi-Fi is faster than the write speed. So I did hardwire for a bit. The write speed's the hang up, not the connection.

Yeah, so if you want to make it even faster, change it to a solid state drive, because that's one of the old school platter drives. But if you don't to a solid state drive because that's a, it's one of the old school platter drives. But if you don't give a shit, if you've got time, I can let it do a thing for people out there. 60 bucks is what I paid 12 GB Ram, one terabyte drive for 60 bucks. I, you know, and the guy you bought it from, and the guy you bought it from did not have a cell phone. He did not. What an interesting guy. I had a chat with him after because he's an older guy from Moldova. And so we were chatting about back in the day under the communist party rule and so

forth. So he didn't need it. He didn't need a cell phone. From where he came from, it's just not needed for him. God bless him. God bless him. Yeah. Joey, let's fucking end this because we have a lot of We went normal time here. We got problems. We have problems. No, no, we're gonna go a little bit longer. I have shit to talk about We all have shit to talk about. Sure Come back if you're on audio for tomorrow's show where we talk about King Carney and his upcoming battle with Pierre in the Canadian election long overdue in my opinion But yeah, if you're anywhere else stay tuned. We're not going anywhere

And don't be a cock