The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - CBP Classics - Greg Foss (2021)

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESOn this CBP throwback, we have the one and only Greg Foss.⁠Discord:   / discord  A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by:easyDNS - https://easydns.comEasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchaseBull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.256Heat -⁠ https://256heat.com/ ⁠GET PAID TO HEAT YOUR HOUSE with 256 Heat. Whether you're heating your home, garage, office or rental, use a 256Heat unit and get paid MORE BITCOIN than it costs to run the unit. Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.

The views and opinions expressed by guests of the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Joey and Len or the program. The Canadian Bitcoins podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice. So please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence. and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. This episode of the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast

is brought to you by Shake Pay. It's the easiest way to do the Bitcoin dance in Canada. Shake Pay is giving right now $30 for every $100 in. If you use our referral code, CBP, that's Charlie Beta Peter. On top of that, if you use our referral code, you can also shake your phone in the app every day and have shake pay give you a little bit of Bitcoin on the house. And of course, they also have a Bitcoin back debit card.

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It is always my co-host, Len, on this lovely Wednesday afternoon. And in the third panel, a man who needs no introduction anywhere in the Canadian Bitcoin world. His name is Greg Foss, a.k.a. Free and Open Source Smackdown, A.k.a. Bonds, James Bonds, aka Moose. I don't know. Am I missing any there, Greg? I'll take all of those in the best interests of keeping me anonymous because I'm gaining enemies on an hourly basis, it seems, aren't I? I'll sell you a passport with pseudon names on it. You'll be fine. I'll hook you up with the right people.

It's good to see you, Greg. It's really good to see it. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys. Where are you guys located? I'm in Hamilton, Ontario. Okay.

Oakville. Oh, me too, man. I'm in Oakville, so perhaps right down the block or something. Could be, yeah. Could be. But, you know, let's just get right at it. Everybody knows your backstory, sort of we won't be rehashing that. So let's just dive right in.

And I have a question about bonds. This is something that's probably near and dear to your heart. So what are your thoughts in this new Bitcoin bond from El Salvador? And is it enticing enough to capture money from big pension plans like CalP, CPP, the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan, et cetera, to even move a small percentage of their bond allocation to this new Bitcoin-back bond? So I can't speak for them based on their track records, unlikely. When I say based on their track records, don't forget, I spend.

30 years in the North American bond markets. And many times I was trading against those institutions, meaning I would take a short position against some of the bonds they owned or I'd be buying the bonds at a huge discount to where they bought them initially. Pension allocators and pension fund managers are generally sheep. And what that means is they want to keep their jobs. And the way they keep their jobs is not going outside of their comfort zones. So I don't expect any of those ones you mentioned to be a large buyer. Let's assume that this was a traditional bond offering, even if it was brought by, you know, a traditional underwriter from Wall Street like Goldman Sachs or J.P. Morgan or the like.

I still don't expect them to be, I wouldn't have expected them to be large buyers. what I would hope they would do, though, is do the math, the mental gymnastics to determine if they don't like the terms of the deal, at what price or on which terms would they buy the deal? And I'm pretty sure they're not even doing those mental gymnastics because they just hope it goes away and they hope they don't have to learn something new because, you know, they want to live in their own little cushy world of let's operate like we did for the last 20 years and pretend the world hasn't changed. There will be buyers. This is. This This isn't going to be an interesting, an interesting exercise because it's not brought, as I mentioned, with the typical underwriting Wall Street team. It's not brought with a oversubscribed book. It's not brought with the assurance that a liquid secondary market will develop in this debt. All of these things happen when you bring it in a traditional way where a billion dollar bond issue, which is the size of the El Salvador bond, generally builds a book of $2 billion, plus.

or minus. It's two times oversubscribed. Some of those orders are fake, meaning people double their order just to get their desired allocation. And some people trade it or buy it just to flip it because the syndicate will settle with what's called a short, a syndicate short, meaning they'll sell a billion, 100 million of the bonds, even though it's only a billion dollar bond issue and it'll have a syndicate short to ensure that there's a bid under the market in the event that there's flippers that want to, you know, take out their small capital gain on the bonds. It's part of the game. This one's brought with, you know, using the liquid platform, it's Blockstream and BitFinex. And it's non-traditional. It's going to require pension fund

managers to get their head around two different things. And so I don't expect a huge institutional from Canada or North America. There might be some foreign sovereign bond funds that definitely can't own Bitcoin, but want a derivative exposure to the Bitcoin price profile. So this bond is a combination of a fixed income or a fixed contract instrument, which is your 6.5% coupon. And then you have participation in the price appreciation of Bitcoin, which can be modeled out as an option on the Bitcoin price. And, you know, you can break it down into the various components. There be hedge funds potentially that want to arb against the

various volatility of the different markets. So traditional pension funds, unlikely, global sovereign bond funds, more likely, hedge funds, even more likely. mom and pop retail very likely you hope that the underwriters the new underwriters have done their homework and haven't offered up a billion dollar bond issue with no homework as to where we can place some of them right because that's traditionally what wall street underwriters do as well they go out and they say to their big accounts ups you know this issue is thinking of coming here's the price talk can we put you in as a lead order and to my knowledge i'm not sure I would hope that the new guys on the block have done that.

Either way, as I try and put it in context, if Bitcoin's a trillion-dollar market cap, this is one billion, so it's one-one-thousth of the size of Bitcoin. I don't think we should overthink it too much. I would love El Salvador to blow the doors off this bond offering and bring all the beauty that a $500 million exposure to Bitcoin could bring to that. country as well as capital to invest in their Bitcoin city and the projects that they have. So hard to say. In my former seat, I definitely would have been looking at this very closely and figuring

out how to arbitrage some of the risks out of the market and try and pick the low-hanging fruit. I don't do that anymore. I do it in my head. I do the mental gymnastics in my head. But at least I would tell you, I have a price at which I would buy it. and I would tell you how I would hedge it. And I'm not going to do that on this show because I don't want people to start thinking

they're going to be a 30-year credit trader all in one 30-minute sitting with you guys, right? Like I'm going to teach you 30 years of stuff in 30 minutes now. I don't think so. Greg, you mentioned there the traditional pension funds and the hurdles they have. And, you know, Len and I talk a lot in our show about the CPPIB. It's an interest to us and of interest to a lot of Canadians or should be. And, you know, there's an allocation they have. I think last I checked, it was about 25 and change percent fixed income.

Yeah. And that's that's 4x, gold, I'm guessing, government bonds. You know, you mentioned that, and I've heard you say this a couple of the times, it's not, it's not so much about them, you know, not having the cash. It's about them adopting sort of a new paradigm, right? And so my question for you, you know, having been in the seat and adjacent to people who are making those decisions as well, I would guess, you know, what is the, what is the obstacle institutionally, besides just figuring out that this thing is worth something to these funds.

What is the obstacle like here? What is the problem for the CPBIB with a growing population bomb, shrinking returns and bonds? You know, shrinking is putting it very kindly, as you know, what is the hurdle these guys have to get over here besides understanding Bitcoin? Yeah, it's a great question. And the reality is they have to get out of their own way, right? These guys are sheep.

They have a cushy job, that they only lose their job by doing stuff that's outside of their realm of their comfort zone. So they don't do anything if the case that DePoi Plasman, Quebec, the second largest fund in Canada doesn't do anything. And if CPPIB and CDPQ are not doing anything, then Ontario Teachers is not doing anything. And Ontario teachers not doing anything means Alberta teachers is not doing anything. And it just trickles down. It's the theory of agents and it's comfort in numbers. They'll all run off a cliff at the same time. The greatest trade I ever did or completed in the history of my trading was in something

called Restructured Asset Back Commercial Paper where 32 billion of it was issued into Canada at 100 cents on the dollar. And it traded as low as 20 cents on the dollar. All the idiots that bought it at 100 cents on the dollar were selling it all the way down. It eventually matured back at 100 cents on the dollar. could have done some very easy mathematical calculations, is how to properly hedge that. As an aside, it basically, the whole structure was based on one U.S. company called Hewlett-Packard. And if you hedged out the risk to the Hewlett-Packard, you were picking up billions of dollars risk-free.

None of these turkeys did that math. They bought it at 100 cents on the dollar. They all sold it. Now, here's the hard part. You know, if you're a citizen of Quebec, you lost money. If you both went to Queens University and the endowment of Queens, they own some. So did Western Ontario. So did a lot of other universities.

So did the Canadian Post Office. The biggest trade I ever did in my life was when I was in Prague, Czechoslovakia at a hockey tournament with my son. And we bought all of the Canadian post offices asset back commercial paper. And I wasn't even in the same time zone. I was six hours ahead. And these smart guys said, oh, we're so smart. we're going to trade it through J.P. Morgan, New York. And how did it go? It went from Canada Post Office to J.P. Morgan, New York, back to Greg Foss hedge fund and company in Toronto.

And the post office was too stupid to actually do it directly with us because, you know, we got to do it through J.P. Morgan and lose another 1% on trade commissions. These people are absolutely disgrace when it comes to risk management. That's the way it is, though, because they have investment policy guidelines that are set up. It make them lose money just by the way they're set up. I got to be 60% equities and 40% bonds, bar none. Doesn't matter what bonds yield. I still have to own 40% of my portfolio in bonds. Very, very sad for true risk managers and very sad for the average Canadian that has no idea

that you have these monkeys managing money for you. and your pension is hostage to their intellectual laziness. Greg, if anybody likes to talk to me, like, they know that I love history. And I can spot there's a 10-year pattern going on here because we had financial crisis going on in the late 70s. It's sort of like a bus. Yeah, you're about right. It comes around every 10 years. We're due for another one in next handful of years.

And right now there seems to be some more economic woes germinating in, like, Egypt, Romania, Turkey, and Sri Lanka to just a few countries. Apparently, they don't matter. I'm afraid to say it doesn't matter. It happens all the time. Argentina has defaulted four times in my career. Argentina is a G20 country. So all these other countries, no disrespect, but they're not even G20. So like there's 180 countries in the world.

There's really only five that matter. And guess what? Canada's not one of them. So don't even pretend you are Canada. You're not even one of the important five. So like here's the thing. Like we could talk about all this thing. I don't take it lightly that the citizens of these countries,

are experiencing financial hardship, that's just a fact of life when you tie your boat or your rowboat to the vessel, the North American aircraft carrier called the United States, right? That's just what happens. So until you start thinking outside the box, like a certain South of Central American country has done, you were going to be sucked into the vortex of the U.S. aircraft carrier. And that's just the way it happens. And don't try and change mathematics. It's only might is right.

Okay. Might is right. And the U.S. is the might. So, I mean, going on to that, I just want to keep going down to this radical rule here. I mean, domestically, too, like we have like the mortgage lending debt is climbing. And it's been climbing ever since March 2020. You know, the U.S. and Canada, they're creating currency at a thin air just by sheer will.

And if you look at this, everything that we have here, it's like a house of card. waiting to fall down, just like from an ill-placed sneeze. Essentially, are we screwed once crap hits the fan? And if we are screwed, do we have any chambers left in the, oh, sorry, bullets left in the chamber to actually deal with the next economic crisis? I hope so, but every single success of financial crisis, it happens more severe. It happens more quickly. And the chance of recovering from it is less and less.

So let's go through the four financial crises that I've been part of. I started my trading career in 1988 right at the peak of the Latin American debt crisis. Okay. Royal Bank of Canada, you know that solid financial institution that everyone in Canada has comfort putting their deposits in. It was insolvent. Very simply, it could not meet. It could not write off the value of its loan losses against its equity because the value

of the loan losses was higher than its equity balance. Okay. Well, everyone still has confidence putting it. their deposits in Royal Bank of Canada, don't they? Why? Well, because it's, you know, Canada's largest financial institution and really because it's backed by the Canadian government. And how does the Canadian government back it by printing more money? So Royal Bank of Canada didn't fail in 1988, but Royal Bank of Canada wasn't the only one on the rope. So for all other global money center banks, that's why we needed a plan called the Brady Bond plan and named after U.S. Treasury Secretary

Nicholas Brady. So that's when I got my start. I was working directly for the CFO. I go to the CFO and I love the guy. Emil, you know, we got a big problem here. He goes, I know, don't tell anybody. Hold on a second. I just did all this work, went to school, studying banking, you know, and I come out and realize that the whole thing is a scam, that banks are regularly insolvent, that people don't understand how the Fiat Ponzi works. So fast forward, I'm trading. in 1998, 10 years later, and long-term capital management comes along with two Nobel Prize winners that combined their IQ was probably less than three, okay? Because they took idiotic risks that needed to be bailed out once again by the Fed. And they were taking 99 to one leverage

bets on volatility. 99 to one. Now, the banking system is levered 20 to one. And this was levered five times as much as the banking system. Are you kidding me? But that happened, 1998. And then the big one, 2008. Like, that's when the world really was over. Okay. Like, I'll tell you that it was over.

And the Fed did what they had to do. The problem is, by doing what they had to do, they also had to pay down the accumulated debts that they took on to do things like the TARP, the Troubled Asset Relief Program, and not to take all this toxic debt off the hands of the Wall Street banks, but they never did. A central bank is always destroyed by taking on ill-liquid debt products that come out of their own financial system. So they had the chance to pay it down after 2008, and every time they try, the equity markets

had what's called a taper tantrum. So they never did. They never had the guts. The politicians obviously wanted to stay in power. So the way they stay in power is not by invoking fiscal discipline. I mean, that's just, you know, the way it works. And everything could have been paid down, say up until 2016. It would have been painful, but it was mathematically possible.

Then COVID hit. And now it is mathematically impossible, mathematically impossible to pay down the debt, accumulated debt burden. So we need a solution. That solution, we all know. what that is on this podcast. But educating the intellectually lazy pension fund managers and politicians is no easy task. And that's sort of where we are. The next financial crisis may well be the last one. And if we don't have a lifeboat in place, even to rescue the mighty USA aircraft carrier, we might be in big trouble. And it's not what I want. I want a parallel system.

A bunch of lifeboats, essentially, I should say, everybody has their own lifeboat, but it's called a Bitcoin lifeboat. And you can save this system. This system is mathematically possible to save if you embrace Bitcoin as your savings account. And you continue to use this thing called the US dollar as global reserve currency. Bitcoin, global reserve asset, US dollar, global reserve currency. and all these other countries that really, you know, I love these other countries, but they don't matter, okay? There's 180 other countries that just don't matter. And you're going to say, Foss, you're racist or you're, and I'm going to say, no, I'm mathematically inclined. And they don't

matter because unless the U.S. solves this, no other countries in the world are going to solve it. It's just math. And what that means is if we can get the U.S. government with some prodding from their friends to the North, Canada, to embrace Bitcoin as your savings account for future generations, we can write this ship. But this ship is tilting badly. And the leadership of both of our countries could be the stupidest fox that I've ever seen in my life. Okay.

So that is not encouraging. But there are opposition parties that are currently doing some work. I mentioned that I gave, I'm not sure if you knew this, but I gave a presentation to 45 members of parliament, Canadian members of parliament on Bitcoin and blockchain. And it's been well received. Whether they do anything with it, I'm not sure, but at least it is encouraging that people are doing the homework and understanding the situation that we're in. I'm not proud of it. I have three kids. And I'm not going to be proud of handing them over a country that is, you know, a Titanic that is full steam ahead at under the guidance of a drama teacher.

who says shit like, well, forgive me if I don't care about monetary policy and budgets will balance themselves. What a stupid fuck. Okay. If he was the CEO of a publicly traded company, he'd be fired on the spot. It is embarrassing when your CEO of your country says stuff like that. It's like saying to your kid, oh, don't worry. Spend your credit card.

Credit cards don't matter. It'll balance itself. fuck you Trudeau okay you are really lame absolutely rolling downhill there Greg on this Greg on this show we always get the guests like we try and encourage the guest to to black out for a second there and usually it takes like more than 15 minutes but that only took you I think you were going there for probably 12 or 13 minutes before you really started to roll downhill outstanding stuff outstanding stuff I just I got three kids guys and I like I look you can send the the hate mail and you could probably send the the Trudeau team after I

just got to tell the truth, okay? And it's, it's, it, it, it weighs on you after a while when people, I don't believe he could possibly be that silly. But if he is, then other people have to correct them, okay? Because, uh, you know, just because you're a drama teacher doesn't mean you should be running a country. We, we talk on this show quite a bit, Greg, about this sort of, um, you know, like the messaging around inflation and the life raft, as you described it there, the Bitcoin life raft and the things that are, you know, they're, they're tangible to most of the Canadian population at this stage, whether it's gas prices or the place of your home and the wealth effect and things like that. And we wanted to ask you about the, you know, the messaging

that you're doing on your side with these MPs. Now, like, we all know what party of the MPs are from. We won't mention it. We don't have to. But I'm curious about what the, what the inclination is like from those, those guys and gals, because it seems to me like, you know, two years ago, if you had told one of the big two political parties in Canada that they need to get on board with this inflation hedge asset as part of their platform. You know, a lot of them would have looked to you and said, inflation is not really a dog that hunts as far as political platforming. People don't know what it means to hedge against inflation.

They don't do any investing. It's not really in the zeitgeist. But now it seems to me that it is very much so in the zeitgeist. Everyone talks about inflation and sees it. So what do you think the likelihood that these guys and gals adopt, even if they don't go full orange pill, adopt some messaging around inflation and hedging against inflation. as part of their platform in the coming election.

And there will be an election, I think, in the next 18 months for sure. So what do you think about that? Interesting. So great question. Look, first of all, I need to be clear. Bitcoin is not just an inflation hedge. Bitcoin is a hedge against the 100% certain debasement of fiat currency. So Bitcoin will go up in value, regardless of whether we are in an inflationary

environment or a deflationary environment, because in both of those environments, the Fiat currency continues to debase due to the debt spiral. It has nothing to do with the inflation rate. It's the debasement of the currency. And people will understand that implicit because you cannot print your way to prosperity. Otherwise, why do we work? Why do we pay taxes? Let's just give everybody money. Okay. That's how you break it down to its simplest. So to come back, I will say that the questions, excuse me, from the Parliament, members of Parliament were actually excellent, which meant they were doing their homework. They weren't just sitting there, feed me, spoon feed me some information so I can, you know, bite size it and spew it out myself

if I have to. They asked, we're asking really smart questions. They've done their homework. They understand the concept that you cannot print yourself to prosperity, right? It's just, it would break it down to first principles. I don't know. Does it make sense that we give everybody money? In the short term, to solve some horrendous problems, yes, but not on a continuous basis. So I'm a capitalist with a heart.

You need people that want to work. Energy or work is energy. You need to be paid energy for energy. Fiat is not energy. Fiat is a piece of paper that has no value behind it. In fact, you could argue it's a piece of debt. Okay. So congratulations, you're walking around with $50 of debt in your pocket.

Okay? Whereas Bitcoin is energy. It's digital energy. You are paid digital energy for your work energy. That's how the law of conservation of energy works as an engineer. It's something that's near and dear to my heart. And when you think of Bitcoin as a store of value, think of it as storing energy. Think of the time, I'm not sure how old you guys were, but when I was 20, early 20s,

I actually worked installing asphalt shingles on a roof. And let me tell you, that is hard, hard work, okay? Like eight hours of that in the sunshine, in the middle of summer, I might have earned $40 of cash. Five bucks for eight hours of work, $40. And I promise you the value that I gave to that house was more than $40. That's how it works. Okay. You put $40 of your work or time into the house and the house gets, say, $120 worth of value. But if I had kept that $40 in a bank account for the next 40 years or 35 years, because I did it when I was 20 and I'm 58 now, which I essentially did, right? Because I have continuously earned more money, which meant the first money I earned,

I didn't actually spend. I just left it there and it accumulated and it accumulated. If I left it in Fiat dollars, what's the value of my time and energy today? Of that $40 I earned 30 years ago. I don't know. What is it? Six bucks. Six bucks. Okay? For that time and energy, I spent sweating in the hot summer sun, putting asphalt shingles on a roof. Think of that. That is energy, work energy that is not stored efficiently in fiat currency. That is what Bitcoin solves. And politicians get that as well. They may not be, you know, as mathematically competent as some of the, you know, some of the bitcoinsers out there. But they, they do understand That work is energy, and you need to pay energy for that work.

There are enough Canadian politicians. It gives me hope that there's an equivalent amount of U.S. politicians that are doing the same mathematics or same, you know, investigation. And so it's not going to happen all at once, guys. We know that. But what it does give me is confidence that these other intellectually lazy people or conflicted people like Trudeau, there is a challenge to his way of thinking. So, you know, I'm not, well, certainly I'm not a liberal voter, but I don't have any issues with people that did vote liberal except to say, the guy you put in that chair, he's not

that strong at mathematics. Okay, he just isn't. And even though you like the fact that he put a couple of hundred bucks in your bank account on a regular basis, it's only going to hurt you in the long run and hurt your children even more. And that's painful. Hey, Greg, did you make it, I mean, you gave us a pretty good story there about you laboring in the hot sun. Did you make it onto like the, you know, sexiest laborers calendar or something? Did they have those back then? Like the shingler's, uh, shingler's delight or something? I only was able to do it for one summer and I was pretty pitiful at it. So they, they, they, the only thing they would put me on is don't hire this guy next summer. He's a, he's a, he's, he's, he's not as good as some of the other kids that

we can hire. But, uh, you know what? Like, look, I'll remember clearly, like, Montreal is, uh, you know, an area where it was you work hard, you play hard. And, uh, and it was an honest day's work, but 40 years later, I'm looking at it. And I'm like, man, you know, I can't even buy one beer now. With the value of my entire day work, you know, that 40 bucks, now we're $6 and change. You can't even get a decent beer with that. And that hurts, but it is what it is. So you got to take measures to preserve your wealth and preserve your value of energy over time and space. That's what it is, right? Guys, preserve the value of your work energy over time and space. And if you don't use all that work energy that you've saved, you can pass it along to your kids and understand

that they will be able to benefit from your work and energy in a similar way. Again, as an engineer, it just makes so much sense to me. And I really hope that the message gets across. It will save Canada. And Canada needs help because we are in bad shape right now. So I guess we won't be adding you to the name of the Schingler's list and putting you on a calendar. But anyway, It's just a bad joke. Moving on, you talk to people that are in charge or that may be in charge in a not too distant future in this country. Did you talk to them about the possibility of having money return back to its roots where

it's backed by something, something like Bitcoin? I'm wondering if this is a topic that was on your agenda when you actually talked to people back in Ottawa. Well, we try and first of all with any people that we're talking at, you know, we're trying to bring down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. It's easy when you start talking about the problems with the. fiat system to begin with when they start seeing, you know, some, most people don't understand how risky banking is. Most people own bank stocks. If they own equities, they own some bank stocks,

they have no clue the risk they're taking, especially when these bank stocks are regularly worth zero because the banks are insolvent, okay? But don't worry, it pays a nice little dividend and, you know, my dad got rich because my dad owned royal bank stock for the last 100 years. Okay, good. just don't want to understand that the system could break down. And I don't want to be part of that system that breaks down, but we're doing a really good job of making it more frail and more fragile as we go, right? So the politicians get it to varying degrees. You start with the problems with the Fiat system.

It seems like, okay, yes, we know we need a solution. Now, where can we find those solutions? Is it gold? Okay, there's certain attributes of gold that they will get. But then just comparing it to Bitcoin and you compare portability, verifiability, transferability, divisibility, all the things that make Bitcoin superior to gold, then they say, wow. And then you say, guys, it's based on a digital world. And they'd be like, yeah, I get it.

Here's what you don't get. Would you believe when I graduated from McGill University in 1986, I had never used a personal computer. Well, they did exist, but they didn't exist at the university level because they were too frigging expensive. So all my work was done on a mainframe. But now you have kids running around with an iPhone that is more powerful than put two men on the moon in 1967. Okay. So you've got to understand that the world is moving this way. And then you can ask idiots like Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett what they think about this. And they'll go, I just invest in Coca-Cola and I give the world diabetes, okay? I don't understand the iPhone. So, you know,

don't think that gurus like Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett, who called Fiat, excuse me, who called Bitcoin rat poison, know what they're talking about. Maybe they're saying that because they know that Bitcoin's going to disintermediate all the banks that they own and all the Western Union stock and American Express stock that they own. And then you realize maybe they're conflicted. And then even more concerning is if they're lying to people that think they should be gospel. And this is where I have a big problem. Okay.

Because if Fiat, excuse me, if Bitcoin is rat poison, then Fiat is the rat and they are not pointing out what the rat is. Okay. And that is very, very discouraging for my children. And that's why I have to call these people out. And who was Greg Foss? It doesn't really matter. But there's really smart people like Jeff Booth, a really smart Canadian, okay, who I talk to regularly.

In fact, I just got a text from him sharing some pretty cool news. I can't say it publicly, but it's pretty cool. Okay. This is your opportunity. No, no, man. Look, look, look, look. One of the things I've done in keeping a job or keeping my lip shut is if people confide in me, I don't share any, I don't share that unless,

unless they want. I'll just tell you, trust me when I say that there's people doing good work to try and educate the population for the benefit of our children, right? Because what am I? I'm a boomer that is the most selfish generation

that has ever been produced. Okay, 60 years old and we're soft, we are spoiled, and we're pulling forward gains at the expense of our children because we want to still live our cushy lives. Okay. And we're ensuring that our children are going to live shittier lives because we're too selfish.

So I'm calling out those boomer assholes of which I'm one. And I'm also calling out Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger as being fucking conflicted boomer assholes and zoomers or whatever the hell you'd call them. Disgraceful. Okay. Disgraceful for the children of our countries, not to mention the other billions of people in the world who are unbanked and to whom Bitcoin can actually be life-changing. Do some work, you guys. Please. It's disgraceful. I like that answer. Greg, we're going to be respectful

of your time. But at the end of most of these interviews, actually all of these interviews, we ask a question that will give you some turmoil in your personal life. So as far as that question today, you mentioned that you met with some MPs. We know they're from a certain party. And so I'm curious, if you and Pierre Polyev are lined up next to each other in a parking lot and you got to run a 40-yard dash in your favorite pair of running shoes, who's winning that race and by how much? Wow. How about do I have to run it when I'm 58 or could I run it in my prime when I could run a sub 4-6? How old is, how old is a double P there? He's got to be what, like 38, 39, something like that?

I think he might be slightly older, but I think I have 20 years on him. No, maybe not 20. I got 15 years on him for sure. Okay. And I also 15 pounds overweight. So he'll crush me in a, he'll crush me in a 40 yard dash now. But in my prime, I think I could have given him a little bit of a, a little bit of a run for his money. I really like his style.

Okay. He, um, he truly cares. And I'm not saying that, you know, there's not a ton of liberals that truly care as well. It just may be the leader who's a little conflicted and a little full of himself. And that's a real problem. Hubris is the death now for a lot of trades. And it's the death now for politicians that think they're above, you know, above the common voter. Trudeau is not being honest when he says budgets balance themselves because they don't.

Don't give a credit card to your child and say, this will balance itself. okay you just don't do stuff like that always break things down into first principles and if someone says that and then smirks man there's a problem that's a big problem okay fair enough Greg uh do you want to give a hand off where can people find you I mean everyone already knows where to find you but like talk about you could talk your talk your book you haven't come to any the Bitcoin meetups um okay so we wanted we wanted to come to the one in Waterloo but I didn't know about it which is like a you know damning fact uh for someone who hosts a can so it was fun. It was really fun. And one of the things I'll say is Canada is punching above its weight

in the Bitcoin community. We have guys like NVK, Rodolfo, who founded Cold Card. We have Francis Pouliott out of Quebec, Bull Bitcoin and the Bitcoin Embassy. We have Jeff Booth, who I mentioned. We have John Vallis. We have Jesse Berger, who's written a book. We have some Croatian guys at Rockstar, real estate. These guys, it's a great group of people. And this isn't just, you know, not just in Canada. In general, bitcoins are motivated. They are optimistic.

They want to make positive change. They don't want the world to fail. Okay. Everyone thinks that they want Fiat to fail. Trust me, you don't want to be in an environment where Fiat has failed. just look to places like what Turkey is undergoing right now or what Argentina has gone has undergone. I was in Miami a couple of weeks ago and I met a young lady from Argentina, just such a

superstar. Her family lost everything twice in Argentina. Shit. Like that's just highway robbery, right? I don't want that to happen in Canada. Canada's a great country. Canada has punched above its weight. many times and we can do it again and we're doing it in the Bitcoin community. I'm just happy

to be part of it. So I call you guys out, come to the next Bitcoin meetups, but just keep doing what you're doing. On a podcast per capita, I think Canada is even punching above our own weight, right? Like your podcasts and the other good ones that are out there, Canadian-based, it's really a pleasure to be a part of this. And we know that we're doing, we're fighting the good fight because you have to call out the liars. And the liars are people who say things. You know, I've already repeated. But the liars are people who think you can print your way to prosperity and modern monetary theory. And this textbook I wrote is going to prove to you that we can print our way to prosperity. Stephanie Kelton is an absolute embarrassment to risk

management. Okay. And she's going to cost so many people so much money. And I hope that her book is used for nothing else than holding up the corner of your desk, okay? Because that's about how valuable it is. It is a piece of shit. And it's written on false pretenses. But it sells, and she's a bestselling author because people want to believe in that. It ain't worse shit. Go and waste your money if you want to read some bullshit. But start doing some real work and understanding how real markets work, not the markets that an armchair economist wants to impose on the world. Well, it sees, it's these like, you know, I don't want to get into the weeds here, but like this, Kelton, you know, has this problem with the proximity to the economic

calculation that MMT basically builds its whole foundation on. When the money is free, nothing else matters. It's a disaster, right? It's a house of cards. Why pay taxes? We already mentioned. Why work? Why don't we just all sit in our basement and play, video games and go on the metaverse or whatever, right? We have, we have some real problems facing our and but the cool thing is that I'm going to let's end on a positive note I'm really pumped to meet you guys I'm pumped to meet young bitcoins guys who are like 20 in their mid 20s they are going to make a change and an impact in the world I had the very uh very uh profound honor of sitting down with a kid from the US space uh what's it called the US Space Force Jason

Lowry in Boston okay this guy is like you know, he's Michael Saylor 20 years younger than Michael Saylor, right? Or maybe 10 years, but it doesn't matter. These guys are brilliant, brilliant people that are going to help change the world and make it a better place. And that's what gives me optimism is the young kids that are coming up through the system that haven't, you know, that didn't buy into the Keynesian brainwashing and that are actually striving to make a difference. And again, it's not because I want the Fiat system to fail. The Fiat system will fail without Bitcoin. Regardless of Bitcoin, it's going to fail. That is 100 percent certain. The question is when and what sort of lifeboats

do we have in place to pick up the pieces. Bitcoin is the best lifeboat. It is a beautiful technology. It's the best asymmetric investment opportunity I've ever seen in managing risk for over 30 years. Bitcoin is worth today over $2 million. of Bitcoin. And it's trading at $60,000. What are you supposed to do? You close your eyes. You buy a little. You got three kids. You put a little for each kid. Let's talk in 20 years. Very simple. Don't overthink it. I love it. Greg Foss. Thanks for coming on, buddy. That was great. It's my pleasure, guys. Thanks. And by the way, yeah, Oakville's a pretty big city, but we should probably get together for a pop sometime. Okay. So look me up and we'll go out for a pop.

Sounds good.