The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Coldcard Vulnerability: Is Your Bitcoin Safe? ($89 Million Gone) | The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

Coldcard vulnerability explained: $89 million in Bitcoin gone in four days — the thief never touched a device.Full show notes & past episodes → https://canadianbitcoiners.comCoinkite is a Toronto company. The Coldcard is the Bitcoin hardware wallet serious self-custody people trust. On July 30th an attacker swept 1,082 BTC out of 1,196 addresses in 41 minutes, then kept going. Block's engineers found the cause: one mis-written line in Coinkite's own library meant Coldcards had been generating seeds from a predictable number generator instead of the hardware chip. Since March 2021. Nineteen hundred and sixty-one days.Nobody was hacked. No device opened, no server breached, no malware installed. The keys were calculated offline from public data, and the blockchain checked which guesses had money on them. If you rolled 50 or more fair, private dice rolls setting your Coldcard up, Coinkite says that seed isn't at risk from this bug. If you didn't, move your coins.In this episode of the Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast:— How one keyword collapsed seed entropy from 128 bits to roughly 40 on Mk2/Mk3 (about 72 on Mk4, Mk5 and Q)— Why "Coldcard was hacked" is the wrong headline, and why the distinction matters— NVK: "I'm sorry and I'm devastated" — and the AI excuse nobody's buying— The 2021 commit that shipped seed-generation code with no pull request— Coinkite emailing customers back to 2019, and the privacy problem that raises— SparkKitty malware reading photo galleries for seed phrase screenshots— Apple sued for $1.8M over a fake Sparrow Wallet that passed App Store review— Celsius' old mining rigs became an AI data centre, listed at $2.8B— Bitcoin Independence Day: what August 1st still means nine years on— Ford and Piccini's $11,700 Disney trip, Grewal's ads in his father's paper— The Supreme Court tells Parliament it can't put a watchdog beyond the courts— Groceries top what's draining Canadian bank accounts: 76% say so— 50,000 applications for 700 CNE jobs, realtor counts falling, Peel shootings up— Chow vs. Ford on the waterfront, Billy Bishop, and the Alto deal falling apart— Ottawa bought 3,196 motorbikes for Ghanaian farm agents and never budgeted the gas— New York's municipal grocery stores at 30% offSelf-custody didn't fail this week. A software supply chain did. Dice, passphrases, verification and multisig exist for exactly this — and the people who used them still have their Bitcoin.— Canadian Bitcoiners Podcasthttps://canadianbitcoiners.com — subscribe and turn on notifications for the Monday show.#Bitcoin #Coldcard #CanadianBitcoiners #Coinkite #SelfCustody #MSTR #BitcoinNews #BitcoinCanada————————————————————————————————SPONSORS🔒 easyDNS — Canadian-owned, ICANN-accredited registrar that has accepted Bitcoin since 2013. Domains, DNS, email, hosting, all without selling you out. Use promo code **CBP Media** for 50% off your first purchase, no limits.→ https://easydns.com⚡ Bull Bitcoin — Canada's non-custodial, Bitcoin-only exchange. Founded 2013 in Montreal. They never hold your keys; you self-custody from day one. CBP listeners get 25% off fees for life.→ https://app.bullbitcoin.com/registration/cbp🔥 256 Heat — Hashrate heaters: Bitcoin miners purpose-built to heat a space. Every watt of electricity becomes heat AND hashrate, so you're warming your space and stacking sats at the same time. Custom solutions available. Tell them CBP sent you for a discount.→ https://256heat.com🎓 Bitcoin Mentor — One-on-one coaching to take you from "I bought some Bitcoin" to true self-sovereign ownership. Wallets, keys, collaborative custody, inheritance planning, node setup, the whole stack. 30-day money-back guarantee on every package.→ https://btcmentor.io/aff/joey————————————————————————————————FOLLOW THE SHOW🎙️ CBP — https://x.com/CanadianBTCPod👤 Joey — https://x.com/joeytweeets👤 Len — https://x.com/thebtcpricebot————————————————————————————————

Friends and enemies. The Cold Card Carnage continues tonight. I don't know if you saw this land, about 15 or 20 minutes ago. There was another spike up in stolen coins. 100 dice rolls on the table, apparently. We're going to see if that's actually true. I don't know.

We'll find out. And, of course, our favorite guy, Mike Saylor, on the selling trail again. I'm not surprised by this. Maybe he spoke by the cold card stuff. I doubt it. He doesn't even know what that is because he doesn't self-custody. Anyways, all that more time on CBP.

Here's the intro. So, you know, the government can say whatever they want about this thing not competing. It's for black market only. It's for this for that. But they're really treating it like a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that.

That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and enemies. Welcome back, Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed.

Listen to Lenin Joe E. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and Easy DNS, the media is feeding the slop. What a week in Bitcoin, Bitcoin security. I say week. It's only really been four days. I think it started Thursday, right? So that was the 30th of July, I think.

Yeah, wild, wild. We'll talk about all that stuff. I just heard from our buddy, Manny Minero, that, yeah, He's the one who's telling me that he's seen stories now. People who rolled 100 dice. I don't believe that's true. I think it's very difficult to actually do that and get got. Especially you did it correctly.

So don't want to alarm people. But yeah, we'll talk about all these things going on. The sponsors, EasyDNS. Best place for you to order a domain, buy a domain, all these different things you can do with the registrar. Mark's got a clod bot for you. If you're interested in that, don't spend all your time trying to set it up on your own. Just get one that's ready to go.

run it on Mark's back end. And of course, a bunch of virtual private server options for the Bitcoin enthusiasts, Noster Nodes, BTCPACEEVIRs, Bitcoin nodes, and BTCPAY server implementations if you want to sell some stuff on your website and get back the hardest money in the world. You can do that. Mark, obviously, friend of the show for a long time. I want to thank him again for joining us on Friday night on very short notice because, you know, this was a developing story. We wanted to get out there and say some things.

and help people, you know, calm down a little bit. Anyways, CBP Media is the code over on EasyNS. You get 50% off your first round of buys if you use that. There's no limit on that. So go load up and start something with EasyDNS. That's all I'll say. Second sponsor, buddy. Yeah, we have Bull Bitcoin, Joey.

Bull Bitcoin is a great sponsor of our show. Thank them for sending us some, well, we send them to business. And they send us a bunch of memes in the meantime. But Bull Bitcoin is a great. place to buy great place to sell a lot of people are buying a lot of people are selling right now joey and um it's a tough time to be in it but both bitcoin they have not rugged anybody why because they're not custodial right joey yeah yes that's what you have to be non custodial they don't hold on to your bitcoin and because of that whenever it is you make a buy it comes over to your address to you provide to

them you could do you do buys you could do sales you could do limit orders you could do a whole bunch of things you can pay your bills with bitcoin check them out they're available in canada western europe costa rica argentina columbia a whole bunch of different countries coming to a country near you so check them out user referral code below and with that you'll be able to well get them bored joy just got to reboot something i'll be back in just a minute my computer is just having a little bit of a phrase i can i can see you're having strong with audio it's okay i'll get into the the stories here i think we'll start obviously with um the stuff from cold card so So, you know, big developments over the weekend.

I just finished, I just wrapped up on BICAST over on Ben's channel. And we had a lot to say about the incident, let's call it. I'm going to pull you off the stage land if you don't mind. Oh, he's already gone. I don't know what happened there. Anyway, there's a lot to say about this, dude. I just, you know, maybe I'll start with, it sucks if you got hit by this. And, you know, Len and I have been proponents of cold card for some time.

And obviously, like, I am not anymore. I'll let Len speak for himself. But I think one of the things I take some solace in is we always encourage people to do the dice. Always encourage people to do the paranoid guide. Always encourage people to, you know, do the maximum amount of work required to make sure that your coin was safe. And so chances are, I mean, I'm hopeful. I got messages from a bunch of you guys saying thanks to us. And, you know, I'll say me specifically because I was a victim of this entropy bug without

knowing it, I think back in 2021 or 2022, you know, using it a seed phrase generated on the device, adding a little bit of entropy on my own and then getting eventually drained. You know, those keys were swept pretty early in this whole process. And man, it sure does feel like that was maybe one of the first instances of that. A lot of you guys message me and said, you know, if you had not come forward and been public about that dice roll thing, I would have done the same exact thing setting up my cold card. And instead, you know, I did hundreds of dice rolls. You did hundreds of dice rolls and everyone's better for it. The problem is that coin kite and Rodolfo Novak specifically let people down here.

Lenin and I will talk about this obviously because I do want to get his views as well on, you know, the issues. and I think more broadly, just like the way that Rodolfo has been carrying himself online for the last five years, maybe longer. He let you down if you're a coin cut user, cold card user, big time. The thing that hardware manufacturers are responsible for really is two-pronged. And I haven't said this online yet. I kind of mentioned on Ben Show, but I'll dig a little deeper here and try and give you guys a My full sort of train of thought on this, wallet manufacturers have two jobs. The first job is to secure your Bitcoin.

That means out of the box, the product you get works to secure Bitcoin. It provides the proper amount of entropy, the proper amount of security, all these things. The second job of the hardware wallet provider is to give you the perception that your Bitcoin is secure. Now, these may sound the same, but they're different. the second part of that equation is something like dice rolls where you can you know and i'm going to use some harsh words here you can larp as a cypher punk and pretend that the dice rolls are the thing that's saving you in a crisis and roll 100 times 200 times you can air gap SD card all this stuff by the nine-volt battery attachment shoot the device when it goes sideways on you never enable

certain features and live that way and feel like you've contributed to the entropy, you've contributed to the security. At the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that shouldn't be a factor, shouldn't be. Coal card failed on both fronts here.

They allowed you to go through the setup process with less than the appropriate amount of dice, just issuing a warning, which by the way, I think was a result of my incident in 2022. And they didn't generate entropy. There's a great video floating around from BPI, the Bickman Policy Institute, I think, about how just how sadly mistaken Cold Card was about the entropy generation. You know, you should be looking at one atom out of the observable universe. I think it's like 64 Milky Ways or something crazy that we just, you know, didn't get.

Now it's instead it's something that any computer can generate in, you know, a few minutes or find in a few minutes. hardware wallets are difficult for a lot of people. Maybe not if listen to this show. Like Len and I, I was saying when you were off there, Len, we encourage people to take every single step that was required. If you followed our advice, you rolled hundreds of times, you used entropy from the device, you added, you airgapped, you did all that stuff.

But man, I just think a lot of people didn't. And the reason I think they didn't is because they're sort of paralyzed by they're paralyzed by the number of things they could do, and so they don't do any of them, less that they make a mistake and risk funds. This is, this is, in my view, a user experience problem that was unique to cold card.

And I know you'll have some different views on this. And I, you know, I want to talk to you about them and we'll go back and forth, I'm sure. But Rodolfo Novak spent the better part of a decade, maybe longer, dancing on the graves of every hardware manufacturer he could at any opportunity he was given. Ledger leaked their customer data through a mailing list issue, I'm pretty sure, danced on their graves. Ledger launched the recover program, danced on their graves. Trezer, you know, similar thing with the

user list leak, danced on their graves. By the way, Cold Card suddenly has the emails of every person that bought a device, even though they said they were deleting them. You let me know. know how that makes you feel. Because chances are that ain't the only data they got from being honest. The response from that same community that Rodolfo tried to cut the head off of a dozen times over the last decade has been nothing short of like pure generosity and support. Every hardware manufacturer offering discount codes. I got hardware manufacturers in my inbox saying they want to try, you know, they want to send

stuff, try it, see what you think, talk about it, be honest about it. Guys like Rob Hamilton and Pervene Pereira, Pervin is a friend of the show. This is a guy who, you know, has an OpenSat's grant to work on a hardware wallet and is spending his time or on a software wallet, right, Cove, and is spending his time over a weekend trying to make sure that people don't lose their life savings. guys like Nathan, you know, Fitzsimmons and Ben, BTC mentor, BTC sessions. These guys are working around the clock to support people who find themselves in this difficult situation that there's no really precedent for.

Bitcoin's not old enough to have a precedent for this where a hardware wallet fails on the most basic task that's required of it. And getting people off that sinking ship was very difficult. It was a race against the clock. It's a race against modern tools that are reaching new levels of potential literally every day. It sounds like we saved a lot of people a lot of money. And I just, I'll finish with this and then I'll ask you what you think about all of it, Len. Self custody is not dead.

It's far from it. Self custody has never been better. There's tons of options out there. There's options like the Bikki. There's options like the foundation passport. There's options like ledger devices. There's options like seed signer and bitbox and you name it, man. Tangem is another one I've seen throwing around that people really like that's kind of flown under the radar.

I don't know what kind of person goes from a cold card to nothing. It seems unlikely that that's a move that many will make. And I hope you don't make it. I appreciate, you know, Rob and Becca over Anchor Watch basically saying, we'll let you use the service for free for 60 days until the dust settles. That's like incredible stuff. These guys could be doing wartime pricing. Instead, they're offering it for free.

Goes for the hardware guys too. You know, shipping stuff out, discounts, blah, blah, blah, blah. Don't give up on self-custody. Because if you don't self-custody or Bitcoin, it's not going to do you any good. The whole mission revolves, in my view, around self-custody. It doesn't revolve around FIP 110 passing or not passing. It doesn't revolve around spam.

It doesn't revolve around MSTR or whatever Matt Cratter's mad about this week. It revolves around custody. You've got to hold your coins. And you can do it. You can do it. Don't be discouraged. Learn from this. Spend time learning about hardware wallets and really, you know,

build on the foundation. you've established for yourself. You've been here a long time for listening to this show. And there's no reason to go backwards now and say that, you know, you're out or you don't want to do self-custy or any of these things. You're better than that. What do you think? It's saying that I agree with you, 100%.

I feel for the people that lost their funds because people that have done that, I don't know what they're feeling like. You might, you may not. I'm not sure. But I could tell you unequivocally, I cannot. I do not know what they feel like losing whatever it is. they put into it. It must be just an extremely horrible feeling. The people out there listening, I do hope that you have all secured your funds. Somehow, you've done it. I hope everybody that

reached out to me has gotten at least a reply back for me. I've been since coming back from golf on Friday. And that time, I was just out of communication. I was just enjoying it. But since then, I've been my head in a laptop dealing with people mentally. tired, emotionally, tired. I still hope anybody that I have not gotten back to, please let me know. I'm trying my best to help out as many people as I can. I do this for free, but still, it doesn't mean I don't have any responsibility. I feel I do.

I want to help out, insurers make as many people as possible for free. But still, even with all that, there's still people that come out at me with negative energy. I can't fucking believe that. Do you know how many people went back to our clips, Len, and left comments on clips of you saying it's it is crazy what people will do they're psych I don't care about that I'm talking about some other things and I don't want to say it but I just want to say I don't have the time nor the energy to deal with you in Italian they say Virgonia and that's what it is for you are fucking shameful man fucking doing that it's not the time it's not the time to fucking do it I'm

doing my best to help people out fuck you if you're going to be coming after me with negative energy I do not need that directly but what I am experiencing though I honestly it's bullshit but it's still like a fraction of what people out there that lost their funds or people that are working around the clock because that's their job to make sure people are safe. The yeah. So I'm doing this for the love of the coin. I didn't lose any funds, but there are a lot of people that have. Like I said, I feel fucking bad for them. I really do because they put trust in the company that shouldn't have been trusted and it's fucking unfortunate.

Yeah. The amount of engagement in the past little while has been off the charts, both on crypto Twitter or Bitcoin Twitter or whatever it's called these days. The CBP Discord, what in an active and wonderful community. The Bitcoin Discord, as I've never seen that type of level of activity, it's just phenomenal to see people rally together to try to help people out. And like I said, my head has been stuck in this laptop for the better part of three days. And I'm finally, I've emerged, you know, my family can attest the fact that I've been fucking busy doing this.

But even if you, you know, to give an example, if you go look at my, I like playing NHL 94. I haven't played since Thursday. The only thing that's out there are pre-scheduled clips that go out. That's it. I don't respond to anybody. That's not fucking busy. But enough about 94. I wish they fucking had 94 bits of entropy that they fucking applied.

People would be in a better position if they did that. The community. and we have to talk about it and they specifically there's some specific incidents that took place and we know a lot of people that lost their money

a lot of people that lost their funds you know if you are not sure what the fuck I'm talking about if you have a Mark 4 Mark 3 Mark 5 cold card cue if you let the device

create the seeds by itself you didn't roll the dice you said you know go ahead and just create the seeds for you your corn is at risk. Specifically, Mark 3, very much at risk. Mark 4, 5, and Q, a little bit less, but still at risk. So suggestion is get the fucking Bitcoin off that ASAP into something that is trustworthy. Not the Sparrow app that you find on Google or on iPhone. We'll talk about that moment a little while in the show, but those are scams.

Use something like a ledger, a treasurer, pull Bitcoin wallet, blue wallet, whatever, but do your own research. right? Find something that works. Move your Bitcoin off immediately before you get rugged. It buys you some time. Temporary, it's not a permanent move. Maybe, maybe not. But at least, at the very least, you're safe and you can just do something. So the million dollar question is, would we still use the cold card? People ask me, I've been asked a lot of times. This is going to be wild. This is going to be wild. Yeah. Lock in. There's a lot of answers. But the three of them that I think that are more pertinent here. There's three different answers.

One, yeah, you can still use it if you rolled a dice, right? If you did that, did your keys offline, verified it offline, did the air gap, confirmed everything, the whole nine yards. Yeah, your cold card might still still be very good, maybe the best right now at doing what it's supposed to do, which is essentially nothing. When you sign the transaction, it does that very well. But that's answer number one. answer number two, there could be another bug under the hood that was not discovered.

Right? Like, and that could potentially wipe your funds. Okay. I mean, unlikely, but it's possible. I mean, we're not dealing with open source. We're dealing with source verifiable. I never truly grasped the issue of that until lately that this is the commercialization of software. You know, they did the right thing in the fact that it was available for anybody to see,

it's a commercialization of it, it was still accessible for all to see. Anybody could do that. That's how the bug was discovered. They had AI troll through the code. But the other side of it, it's still there, but nobody's using that code to further development.

It's only being used by cold card. Nobody else is using it for their own projects. And so there's no new advances to the code, no more a bunch of new eyeballs looking at their code. Heck, there wasn't even bug bounties to look at this. There should have been, right? And it's not to say that open source is the BL and end all and it's free of bugs. Hell no, far from it.

But open source's biggest weakness is its biggest strength in that you will have tons of eyeballs on it and the ability to build and improve upon it. And you have every right to build on it and it's being used for whoever wants to. That's open source. So it's bad in that regard, but it's great in the same regard as well. So again, it's a very long-witted answer to say the cold card might be fucked. in a near future if you are wearing a tinfoil hat. So that's the second answer. The third answer is, well, you can still use the cold card, right?

If you want to. But cold card, sorry, coin kite is potentially done as a company, right? I can't see it, kaput, rest in peace. It's got to be on Burrow time. And if that's the case, there's going to be no new software, no new firmware that's going to come out unless somebody picks up the ball and does it voluntarily. So any new bugs that come out and need to be fixed in the future, no matter how big or small, they're going to be there forever.

So over a long enough time horizon, the device will be rendered useless. So, I mean, take that for what it's worth. I mean, for me, personally, I'm going to go for a DIY setup, Crocs or something like that. I think that's the, at least that's the long term, maybe medium term plan. Short term cold card, the way it is, the way I've set it up,

I think it's fine. it's just my trust in the software, sorry, the product itself is obviously at all time low, but whatever. That's me, do whatever you think is best. I'm going to give any fucking advice. I know what I think I'm going to do for myself. And if you do what I follow my footsteps, great.

If not, great. You know, I have no problems with that. But NVK touched upon him. Man, oh man, like what an interesting fella, right? He's made a lot of enemies. Right? He's got an abrasive nature to him, right? So much for I've had him on my mute list for a little bit of time.

Even though I still follow the cold card account, NVK, I don't follow. He's been on mute. But NVK, I mean, he has done good for the community quite some time ago. Like if you look at the block size wars, he helped usher people in the right direction and so forth. But this time, though, this is just my personal viewpoint. I could be wrong.

But I think he's doing himself a disservice right now by just his ex account is primarily retweeting post. Put the fucking phone down, Rodolfo. Put it down. Well, I don't know what he's doing with the phone. I don't know what he's doing. I don't know what he's doing. Period.

I mean, I understand there was a post that came from Coin Kite and had his name written in the bottom. That was a while ago. Like, I said a while ago, two days ago. But that's the only thing I've seen directly from him, really. I mean, he's been quiet. He's been AWOL. you know, that's that's not right.

I mean, the optics are beyond bad. You know, the guy should be out there, should be trying to put as many fires out. He shouldn't be telling people that he's going to be deploying more cold cards, steady lads. That's not what he should be doing. And, right, this guy,

there's a bug in his software in the fucking devices that this company sold. This bug wrecked people. People got wrecked by generating seeds that his fucking product came out. The wreckage is still not done. It's ongoing. It's ongoing. We don't know exactly

what's going to be the finality, how much it's going to cost. But people trusted his product and they got fucking wrecked by trusting. And they say it all the time. When you get the package, don't trust verify. It says right here. You know, like,

it's not just a slogan, man. Like, you know, NVK has got to come out of hiding. You're never going to see him again. You're never going to see him. I don't know. Then it's become the Marcellus Wallace thing, right? From Pulp Fiction.

And if NVK is founded in Indochina, then they're going to have somebody waiting in a bowl of rice ready to cap his ass. That's what's going to happen. That's what I fear it's going to happen, right? And, okay, I may be a little extreme. It's a hyperbole. But you get my drift, right? Like, the longer you waits, the worse it gets, the more angry people get, they lost their life savings. The stories.

And I just want to A couple of stories just in particular We got the one that lady She's 37 weeks pregnant I believe Third kid is upcoming Gone She had her Bitcoin gone

The guy lost 18 Bitcoin in Toronto Western Toronto She saw that Yeah He 18 Bitcoin because he trusted the device The guy The guy that panicked He moved his corn

To a wasabi app A fake wasabi app that was on the Apple store, app store, and got rug for six Bitcoin. You know, you got so many stories like this, so much heartbreak, and they got the false narrative with trust in this company, the trust that we lost. And here we go. But I find it gets even more interesting because, you know, you know, I want to stop you right there for one second.

There's people in the chat saying they've never seen MVP's face. He also stopped appearing publicly about a year ago, which is another. is out there. He's been on a podcast. He's been on our podcast before. That's right. So it's not like he never has been out there. Should we re-release the episode? I think we took it down. We can re-release it if you want. And see, my, my block

clock says, right? It's permanently on it because it's unplugged, right? Screen cap. Someone screen capped that and tweeted to Rodolfo. So I did that. I, uh, so it's, yeah, so there you go. So it's always going to be there as rugged. But like, with

all this being said, and I'm not trying to to gloss over the fact that people lost money, either their life savings or part of their life savings, whatever it may be. I'm not glossing over that fact. It's fucking pathetic. But one thing that is interesting to note is the price of Bitcoin, I can't check on my block clock.

It's been flat if not slightly up, I guess. So, hey, that's one interesting metric. Then you look at the mempool. Fees aren't going up. So people en masse aren't making moves. That's another interesting metric. So two things you look at and it looks like, you know what? This is an event that impacted Bitcoiners.

Yes. We had zero hedge report in it yesterday. So it was out there, we'll call that the mainstream, or at least the pseudo mainstream news. We had two full days of trading on Friday and today. And the price hasn't really moved at all. Like the greater population must look at this as a non-event. They don't care. They don't even know.

I don't even know. That's to me rather interesting. So it leads me to believe that only a few people, luckily or unlucky, have been impacted. Zero people I impacted would be ideal. But luckily, it's not that many, it seems. So I'm not trying to minimize the damage, right? But whatever. What happens moving forward?

That's probably a question. I honestly, I don't know exactly what's going to happen. It doesn't change my position with respect to constituting my Bitcoin. I'm not going to give up that. I've seen what happens when you trust other people. This is an example of that. I'm going to trust myself as much as possible because I know what I'm capable of. And I know with those capabilities, how it is I could secure myself, my wealth, my destiny, so to speak, for better or for worse, right?

And I think you could do the same thing, as you mentioned. People do have it within themselves to learn to ask questions. to do what it is, which I don't want to use this word, but for lack of better, the right thing, right? But whatever. So with all this, this is an event we're going to remember for a long time. We had FTX, we had Luna, BlockFi, Celsius, other landmarks before me like Mount Gawks, Quadriga.

This is one we're going to always remember. It's a landmark moment in Bitcoin. So the good news is, though, with all this being said, anybody out there, you're not alone. Right? This is a community, right? Like, we're here to help. I've been doing it all weekend.

Joy, you've been doing it all weekend. And many people have been doing it all weekend. If you, like, if you need to chat, just feel free. Reach out. You know, back before COVID, I had on my desk an empty chair. And many people would come by at my desk, just sit down, be it senior or entry level people, which, and just fucking vent. I would just sit there and listen.

So, like, I was. almost like giving some psychology but without giving any advice. I was just there to listen more than anything. But people left, people felt better. And you know what? If you need to chat, I'll be happy to chat with you. Joey, I'm sure we'd be happy. There's many people that will be happy to chat.

You're not in this alone, man. Like just reach out. This is a community. For better or for worse, we're going to have to move forward from this. And you know what? Decentralized, we are as nodes, but we're united in this cause. we are all fucking bitcoiners and I think we're going to come out better as a result of this at least the people that didn't get rugged the people that got rugged

fuck man I don't know what's going to happen to them good luck yeah there's um sounds like some legal action brewing but I mean this is still such early innings you just don't know how these things are going to go allegedly this guy was requisitioning a centralized API for some of the data so that's maybe a potential avenue to find them. The coins are going to be some of the most intensely watched ever in any scam. One of the things about having the tools to build out a poor entropy strip mining app in Kimmy 3 or whatever is that people are going to build apps to find you too. There's a lot of money out there that doesn't belong to you.

I actually just want to note one other thing. I don't think NDK is safe in public anymore. And I think it's a number of factors. He's just, you know, as we both said, it's one thing to make a mistake. It's another thing to be a sympathetic figure when the mistake is discovered. I don't think he checks the second box. I don't think he checks it for the Bitcoin community. I don't think he checks it for the people who have.

had their corn stolen. I don't think he checks it for anyone. And you've seen some of the stories, horror stories, man. And, you know, having spoken to, you know, Ben and Nathan and some other people I won't name who are doing work on the ground. And even friends of the show, like, you know, you were saying you've been inundated. I got to the point where I was sending voice notes back to people on Twitter because I just couldn't type fast enough, you know.

There's a lot of people who are, like, going to be furious when the, the dust settles when the shock wears off. And, you know, to maybe to that end, we should talk about, you know, Mark sent us this thing before the chat. Thomas Braziel is working on the claims. He. Yes. Yes.

This guy's an executioner, man. He's a guy who you may, you may not know his name, but he bought the Quadriga claims for about 1, for about 2% of their total value back when it was thought they wouldn't be able to collect and ended up making about a 9x on that investment, 10x on that investment. People got their funds back. Like, you know, this guy is not a guy I would fuck around with. And, you know, I see people in the chat talking about, not in our chat, but on Twitter talking about how, you know, he had some litigation against him during an earlier settlement.

But like, I think if you're a Bitcoiner trying to talk legalese about the stressed situations and special situations with this guy, you're in way over your fucking head. I'm looking at you, Lola Leeds. You're in way over your fucking head. This guy's an expert. He's an executioner. People call him the Terminator. Okay. Like, you don't understand what you're up against.

This guy's not only a wealth of knowledge, but he's a very, very shrewd actor. I would not want to be NVK. I think, you know, if I look at the rest of the staff of the company, obviously Hoddle D is like a friend of ours, personal friend of mine. These guys are like, they've become, he, Hoddle D over the last three days has become the public face of coin kite while their CEO hides in the darkness behind probably a team of lawyers at the very least. You know, maybe he's moved jurisdictions over the last two weeks. I don't know. But he's not saying anything, like he said. He's not saying anything.

He put out a shitty blog post, blaming it on AI, when really we know what happened, right? You tried to get out of that stupid license agreement because you thought people were taking, quote unquote, taking your work, just totally retarded. And I don't know what's going to become of him, but I do know what's going to become of guys like Hoddle D. Austin, who works for them too, their deals guy. These are good guys, you know, and they're really building their reputation through this difficult time. And you'd love to see that. So I have no worry about, you know, them. But this dev, Peter, whatever his name is that works for them, who's also gone radio silent.

Doc Hex? Doc Hex. Yeah. I think his name's Peter. Heard's something. I can't remember. Yeah. Yeah.

So Peter is his real name. Doc Hex on Twitter. Yeah. So like. He was a co-founder, I believe. He is. Yeah, he is. So.

And there's more to this story, too, that I'm not going to talk about on the show. but they're like if you've been around a while you remember what this what this in quotes company was before it was coin kite and the story around all that like I don't know none of it's good it feels like I just woke up for a fever dream I can't believe I didn't see this coming a lot of us are sideswiped by this right I don't think anybody is happy that this happened given how many people, including us, we've been talking favorably of the cold card. And like I say, I'm still going to use it for the foreseeable future. But still, I wouldn't recommend.

But you're planning your, you're planning your next move, you know? I have an exit strategy in this, right? NVK, like with, people were reporting bugs that were never actioned. This guy better hired Jackie Childs to, to defend them. He needs, he needs everything possible. All fucking ammo, he's got to just deploy. And they were, the rumor is going around, or not a rumor, maybe it's confirmed that the code wasn't compiling initially. So a way to get around it was they were just setting variables to zero.

So they set the random number generator. They disabled that. And by disabling that, it caused the error to go away this to be compiled. But the problem with the low entropy was the result of all this. this. So it could be a lot of people are saying that it's just a very small team. And because of that very small team and the fact it's not truly open source, right? That you don't have a bunch of people looking at everything. The bug was just hidden for long enough for something to look at. And it was just some AI. And it's funny though that we had the Kimmy K3 come out and just a few days

afterwards this bug was found. Could be coincidence. Maybe not. I don't know. But a lot of people are saying when they try to find stuff using domestic AI tools, they get kicked down a notch. You do. Yeah, you do. So maybe there is something to that, but I'll be honest, that's beyond my pay great. I don't know. So just, you know, either way, imagine, you know, if you're a bitcoiner, you've been at this

for years. You've been through the Mount Cox, the block size wars, all the litigation from Craig Wright, FTX and Terralune, all that shit. And then you get rugged by fucking cold card. I'd be fucking irate. It's crazy. I just fucking irate. How do you do?

What if you're one of these like, you know, I haven't heard from some people who for sure were using coal cars to secure like corporate treasuries. Oh. You know who I'm thinking of. I'm not going to say it out loud. But it's like, like where is this person? Where is their coins? Because chances are if you're securing a corporate treasury, like how often are you looking at that set of UTXOs? If it's an eatery, he's safe.

If it's an eatery, Joey, the guy is safe? Is he? Yeah. Okay. So everything's good in that regard. There's probably others. There's a yeah. Alberta Hoddle lost a huge chunk of money based beef jerky vendor.

You know, like fucking insane. Insane. And there's some people out there saying that this may be conspiracy theory or something out there along those lines. Don't buy into those rumors. This is just simply coding that wasn't up the par. They made a mistake in it. it and it just took years to be caught and this is it.

There was no conspiracy whatsoever. It was just an oops. And I'm understating. It really was more than just a noops, but that's really what it is. And then with that, then they have these quick fixes that you're trying to release with these new firmware updates. And you hear people are getting bricked when you're trying to apply those firmware updates. Not everybody, but you hear at least a measurable amount of people. Maybe it's just a noise we're hearing now.

I don't know. But it's just, it seems to me. like they rushed out this firmware fix to try it to make sure they fixed. Who the fuck's going to apply a firmware fix to move your your stash off your cold car to bring it back on there? You know, like if you're going to move it off there, it's probably going to go off there permanently.

That's, that's in my opinion. If you're going to keep it on there, I can understand that. But and then if you go to their website, it's not truly up to date because it still says that the devices that they're selling are not, not up to date.

They're not shipping them now. So they're not shipping. Yeah. And yeah. So the website is not to date because it still shows and you still get a discount of 20% if you use your Bitcoin. I think that's the number. Who's going to fucking spend that? They say that they're destroying all inventory because these are sealed units.

Right? Once they're sealed. I don't believe them. You know what? So, you know. Explain to me how anyone like the number of things they could have done. And this is not my brainchild. Someone else came up with this.

But like why not just open? your whole stack down to the studs as soon as this becomes an issue and have like have the entire community to look at this thing top to bottom if you're so confident in the code you want to help people you want to make sure there's no other problems like that's the rational thing to do they wouldn't do that um the early early in the discussion you had i mean thank god thank god you and me are in chats with preven because if you looked at what mbK was saying on twitter compared to what pervin was saying it would it cost you five six hours before they started to admit there was a problem.

And VK was on Twitter saying, this is just an entropy issue with someone importing an old seed to a Mark 3 or Mark 4. It's not a cold card problem. That was a fucking lie. And I don't know if it's like a dishonest action, but it was at least one example of, here's what someone told you

and what you're saying publicly being night and day. And by the way, those tweets are all being deleted. And by the way, you know, other, other tweets from the last five years are being deleted. Do you think none of it, like, talk about a lack of understanding of the technological environment. You think people don't have those tweets, dude? I'm supposed to trust you with,

I'm supposed to trust you with firmware on a wallet. You don't even understand how the wayback machine works. Does the way back machine capture the tweet? Yes. Yes. So that's what I'm seeing here. Like a mess, a mess. And shout out to like the Bitbox guys.

I see Zach Herbert in my DMs or my replies right now. The Bitbox guys, the ledger guys, the, you name it. They're all working together to try and make sure there's not another problem with anyone else's hardware. I have it on good authority. There is like a full group of these guys in a room talking at all times now. MVP would never have done that. He would never have done that. Let this be a lesson, man.

I'm not a big, you know, universe comes for its pound of flesh, but fuck me if this doesn't look a lot like karma, you know? Yeah, I think ultimately, aside from the people that lost your corn, I think we're going to come out as a stronger community. Same. We will come out as bigger or better. And I just the ones that lost, I don't know how it is they're ever going to be made whole again. I don't, any sort of...

The sad thing, too, is like the wallets that are being drained now, such low amounts. Like, just true, like, penny, nickel and dime savings type stuff. You imagine the pain. Yeah. So that may be good and bad. Like, really, the bad, obviously, you don't want to have it. But if it sucks if it was somebody in a third world nation that they don't have much ability to earn money.

But then in that same token, how could they purchase a cold card unless somebody gave it for them because it's a price unit if it's going to cost you four months worth your salary so i mean i don't know there's a lot you could spin it it's just the people have lost litigation i don't think it's it's going to help you in the end it might have to give you a little bit of a boost you know you might get a portion of it recovered somehow and there might be some satisfaction in the end too but you're never going to come back to where you were when you first lost it and it's just it's it's a sad sad story out there so to go back to back, it just, you have to never, not I've never, the least amount of trust possible.

There's always going to be a level of trust somewhere. You're going to have to trust a computer. You run, shit, you're going to have to trust that when you make a purchase from bull Bitcoin, that they're going to send you to the Bitcoin, right? There's still a level of trust there. But try to minimize it as much as possible. Bitcoin, there's no CEO you could go to to say, guy, fix it for me, right? You're not going to roll back the chain like they do in Ethereum.

Any decision here is final. And so you don't want to be on the wrong side of history and be the people look at and write about because you lost. You'd rather be people writing about you or that you won or you fly under the radar. You know, you just disappear and you live out wonderful life just because you did the things that to secure your Bitcoin correctly. So like I'm trying to say, just verify as much as you can. It's impossible to verify in totality.

but the more you verify them and trust yourself in it like read learn talk to people we're capable of so much and it's very possible that the capabilities you could unlock something in you to like really open things up and make yourself more sovereign as an individual you don't want it to be relying on people you want to be relying on yourself as much as possible do it that's the right thing my opinion but hey do whatever to fuck you want i don't care i'm going to say one more thing. The community rallying around people who are experiencing this hardship has been incredible. But man, there's still some real fucking morons out there. I think Cratter's an easy guy to talk about these days when it comes to like mental cases. Putting out a video about how

this is a state sponsored attack to distract from BIP 110. You got to be fucking stupid, man. You have to be. It's just completely mental, completely mental. It's going to be a BIP 110less show. I could have show. Yeah, no shit. This is a topic I do not want to discuss today. I don't think it's appropriate to discuss it today. Maybe next week we can discuss it. Yeah.

One thing I do want to discuss, I'm not sure if we exhausted this topic. Yeah, no, we're good. We're good. If I never talk about it again, it'll be too soon, but I don't be so lucky. Unfortunately, we will be talking about this because this post-mortem is on a dead body that's just recently deceased. The body's still warm. As it cools, we get more and more forensics data on this. we'll be exploring this more in depth.

And hopefully people will learn from this experience. And people, oh my God, I can't believe we're still talking about this. But I just want to say one thing, one last thing, I believe, is for anybody that did lose it,

and if you didn't, it's a cheap learning experience for you. Very expensive for them, but for you is very cheap. And if you can walk away from that, more knowledgeable, and you could apply that knowledge somehow to,

make sure that doesn't happen to you, you're so much better off. You know, like make this a learning experience, a life, a life lesson that you didn't have to pay a fucking single sat for. It's somebody else did, unfortunately,

but you know what? This is, it happened. I'll be honest, Joey, if you didn't lose your corn, I don't know if I would have rolled my, my dice way back when.

Because you did that. Yeah. I would, I, I could tell you, like there's like more than 20 people who wrote me that that note and I'm I'm thrilled I'm thrilled to work out for you guys it cost me like I don't know and I think at the time it was like 1500 bucks you know I don't want to know the number you shouldn't even but yeah like that was a little cheap lesson for me

unfortunately expensive for you I remember I had my cold card sitting and was just I'm going to use it I'm going to use it and I'm going to use it and I'm going to fuck you know what and now I'm going to use it and when I heard what happened with you is like okay I'm just going to do their dice and do it right right do it 100 times. I did it 100 times and I'm happy I did that. It was because of that. It was for me, it's like what I'm trying to say is I learn from something. Yeah. And everybody can learn from this too.

And don't be one of the people in litigation. Be one of the people trying to support those that are in litigation. I think that's the best situation to be in. I want to talk about the boost because we didn't do at the top of the show. I'm sorry we're doing it so late. But I do want to bring them up because, you know,

these gents, they gave us three gents in total, sent us some sats. Doug, 525 sats. He said never again will then be referred to as quote unquote the paranoid Bitcoin anarchist one from the CBP rather the one who is the right to be paranoid. All right. Take it for what you want.

I think, I don't know if that's Doug and Roop, but now that you're saying it, I have to remember because he's emailed me twice and I keep reading and write him back. Dude, I'm so sorry. If you know someone or have someone in your life who has a very interesting Bitcoin origin story, send me a note on Twitter and I'll put you in touch with Doug and Rup

he's writing a book of sorts on this and he wants to talk to people with interesting stories it doesn't have to be something wild but I think the more stuff he gets the better so Doug and Rup sorry it took me so long actually we became friends on

Instagram him and I which I like I like when I kind of you know don't get any ideas I'll follow him but no one else getting any ideas I'm not looking for too many I are all friends surely not. This is my 90,

NHL 94 channel. That's my only Instagram and chat. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it, Doug. And I would provide you with my Bitcoin story,

but you know what? It's boring as fuck. So I'm going to save you the time. But if you really want it, I'll be happy to share it with you. But trust me, it ain't worth your time to spend on it. Jair 1-1-1-1-sats.

And he writes very short, what a week, huh? Yeah. What a week. It's actually a few days. Hammer Town, G 5,000 sats. And he writes,

great breakdown on the cold card vulnerability. Get another lesson in trust. And those who took the time to set up the cold card properly with dice rolls seem to have escaped this unscathed or at least bought enough time to move to something more secure. Spend a time. Roll the bones and create your own randomness. Roll the bones.

I haven't heard that phrase in forever. Roll them bones. Yeah. Love it. And you could use cards. That's others. You go flip coins. Coins, cards.

Tons of stuff. Yeah. You see what some of these guys are selling now, too? The bag of the bag of seed words. You like pull it up, pull out one. Then you got to put it back in. Shake it up again. Pull out another one.

Like that's kind of a cool, you know. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And there's other tools you can use. There's tools you can use online. You could have like, you could do that with a bag and then do something else with another generator and use them together to generate a third seed.

There's options. And they're not that hard to use and find. I mean, definitely now on Twitter they're out there. People are talking a lot about them. Look into it. Because the thing is, the next time something like this happens, you don't want to be thinking about entropy for the first time. That's what you don't want.

You don't want to be like, how much is enough? How do I generate it? What do I do? I'm panicking. And you saw that. Like, Isabella Santos, you know, God lover. She's all sorts of fun it looks like on Twitter and doing some things overseas that seem to be benefiting the community had never heard the word entropy before.

Like, that can't happen. If you're a Bitcoin and do self-custody, that can't happen. And, you know, I'm glad it worked out for her, but for a lot of people that didn't because they just didn't know what to do. They're looking and seeing these things for the first time and being like, oh, fuck. Like, what is entropy? It's an empanata or something. You say that's what the white people call empanadas.

They call entropy. Whatever. She's a friend of the show. I don't like, you see this, no big deal. It happens. But like,

fuck, it's on a new list. Yeah, there you go. Just what I probably stated on the new list. Bolt's came out today with some information. And they say that they disabled until further noticed, some swaps that you're going to be able to do on there.

So they say the API remains available to process refunds cooperatively. But in any case, that unilateral refunds will work, but there's going to be moving forward, no more exchanges, no more swapping or shit. They say that because the fact that AI is becoming more prevalent, and they've noticed that there's some major or some attacks going on over there, and as you just, you know, it decided to close shop. They don't want to be rugged or at least have themselves rug or maybe their clients rugged. And so there will be a time where they'll be enabling reswaps in the future, but right now it's not the case.

AI is causing them. It looks like a bit of a... It's a nuclear bomb. It is a nuclear bomb what's happening here. But I got to say they're doing a right thing. If they haven't been rugged and I like the fact that... Yeah, take it off line. Be proactive.

Just do that. And it's unfortunate because that was a wonderful way in which one can move your funds from, say, lightning to Bitcoin or vice versa. Really quick and easy if you don't run a node. And it's done without any KYC. So you could do that. So hypothetically, and I'm not saying this, I would be doing this, but hypothetically, somebody could mine for Bitcoin get paid in lightning and just convert that using bolts, at least in the past, converted with bolts, and you get on-chain Bitcoin. So that door seems to be closed right now.

It's too bad. It's the right move, though. Yeah, I think as long as nothing was lost. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Francis also working on fixing that. Obviously, Bull Bitcoin isn't at a federation. So they used to have that free movement right back and forth on Liquid. But yeah, it needs to be remedied. And Bull Bitcoin, unlike Cold Card and Coin Kite has a stud team of devs that's getting better all the time. So I think they're going to put out a fix for at least a Bull Wallet app, which has that available. Like you can use that optionality on the app. So let's see how long it takes them. I bet they do it by the weekend. I don't think it'll say it'll not long. There's so many stories.

We're going to leave someone to cutting room floor off. We have to. The cold card thing is too big. It's too wide ranging. It's too, you know. But I want to talk about this one, maybe two more stories. We mentioned a fake wasabi wallet app that was available on the app store. Sparrow.

There was one on the app store as well. And it's not just the app store. This ends up also in a play store for Google. So I'm not just targeting Apple. Both ecosystems get this. They can't figure it out. Yeah. Either one.

Well, they vet them, they say. But anyways, there's some ruggings that come along one. So the one in this particular case was an Apple app, a Sparrow app. And some guys got rugged three guys. One guy lost around 875K. Another one, 840K. A third 120K. So there's a lawsuit going out there for around $1.8 million because that's what they lost.

They claimed the app cloned everything. including the branding, the name logo, the interface of Sparrow. So it looked legitimate. But they didn't go the extra mile to figure out that the application itself is desktop only, right? It's not going to be on your fucking phone. But these guys, they didn't decide to do the diligence and fucking look into it. So they ended up, went ahead, downloaded the app. And between May and August to 2025, that's when they got rugged because they entered in their private seats on the application itself.

You're just asking for fucking problems. So the question I would ask is, how to hell did you accumulate that much Bitcoin if you know so little and just so careless with your seed words? These guys, they don't know their digital ass from a digital hole in the ground if you ask me. But you know what? God bless them. They somehow fucking got that money. Anywho, the mess has now going to be brought towards the court.

You're going to have the justice system look at this and weigh in on a decision and who's responsible. They're making a claim that Apple, they market that. their app store, they vet these things. It's locked down. No side loading, no nothing on those phones, right? And they say it's a secure marketplace that creates a consumer expectation that what you're using is indeed the real McCoy. But in this case, it wasn't Apple.

They said they removed the apps and they terminated the developers accounts. This is essentially closing the barn door after the horses left. But you know what? I got to think that the terms of services on the. App Store, it's got to cover them. When you set up the phone, there must be a million, just to use the phone. There's got to be a million. I suppose you've got to go to press yes. I agree. And then you go to the app store, a million swipes before you get to the end and say, I agree. Somewhere in there is got to protect them. These guys, they have a team of lawyers that nobody

could fucking go against. But you know what? Jackie Chowell is trying this one. Let's see if he could fucking win against Apple. Good fucking luck. I am like just flabbergasted this is still happening. people like I said this on Ben Show and I'll say it again now there's a lot of talk about how AI is you know upsetting the established order in terms of like cyber security and whatnot that is true for sure and you know the expectation now is going to be that your code bases are scanned for certain things and you do have a way to like limit for example in an app store the apps to come through this is happening all over the place by way there's garbage everywhere now like PlayStation the PlayStation store Steam is all just like

low effort, like 50-cent games that people might like just, you know, buy by mistake or whatever, it's all garbage. There's no, there's no vetting, no filter. It is true that cybersecurity is being upset by AI. But the thing that I think people are not talking enough about is the ready availability of top-end models is going to change what the requirements are for a number of different products that right now have no quote-unquote safety floor. For example, okay, when I buy a car seat for my daughter, it's got a number of certifications on it, right? It's safety. I can only use it for so long. If I go against the way it's supposed to be used, I can't, you know, if my car crashes, I can't file an insurance claim if something happens, right? God forbid, you don't want to ever say

that aloud, but you know what I'm saying. When you buy a car, it's been crash tested. The materials have been tested for stability and durability and rustproofing and pain absorption and all these different things. There's tons of red tape around products that you use every day. A pain, Sure. Makes it more expensive? Definitely. But you can be relatively certain that what you're doing is the safest thing to do and the safest way to do it, more or less. Soon, I think there's going to be legal requirements for companies to use frontier models to make sure their product is safe, working, secure, all these things. And companies that don't do this will not be able to receive certain certifications. will not be able to make certain claims in advertising, to not be able to operate in some countries.

Good idea, bad idea? I don't know, honestly. Could be a Toyota high lux situation, right? You can't buy a high lux in North America. You can only get it overseas or whatever. Like, could get that far, but overall, you want to see this. Because right now, you don't have access to the frontier models here. Kim E3, you can get Moonshot.

You can get Quinn 3-8 Max just released today. and there's going to be a B level of that model as well. You can be able to run it on your local device if you have the firepower for it. But generally, Claude, OpenAIs, chat GPT, they don't work as well for the things you really need them to work for. I think that's going to change.

Because if it doesn't, then your products are not going to be safe. You're going to be operating from a deficit. And I think, if anything, the Bitcoin thing is this thought, hopefully the broader tech industry, that this is a problem that has tangible, consequences and is a lot closer to home than maybe you realize. I'll finish with this. There comes a time in the life and the life cycle of every technology where early adopters stop being the only ones who understand the power, maybe not how to use the tech, but understand

the power of the tech. We are so close to that with AI. Something is going to come around the corner here, either on the infrastructure side, the banking side, the whatever side, cyber security side, who knows, that's going to impact the general public in a way they weren't ready for and everybody will be talking about this overnight. And what are we going to say? I told you so. It's not just for making pictures of grandma at the beach. Like this stuff will change your life for better or for worse. So you want to have the best tools. And right now in Canada, of the U.S., Europe, there's no argument we made. We don't. The Chinese have the best ones. It's plain simple. So one quick story, but I just want to say, Wilheim, buddy, I don't have a story

that you provided me this week. I did my own story. So for better, for worse, you're going to hear my own. Let's get off my cold streak here. Here we go. So yeah. So I just want one last story. I'm just going to read the tweet that came from CoinDesk. So I don't have much because it's very late in the day and I was very busy. It said former FBI agent, this guy worked for the FBI. Patrick Yerich. He's been charged with allegedly stealing about $1 million in cryptocurrency from wallets and tied to FBI investigations and they said that he was using Chad GPT as a way to try to find a way to invest that relocate to Europe and shit like that so nice that's the inside job from they steal they they don't steal they they confiscate the Bitcoin and somebody then steals it from the

government even the even the funds confiscated from you are not set food with the government they still we'll find a way let's go let's go to the backside yeah uh Stick with us. Big audience tonight. Hang in. We got just a number of clown world stories that you can fucking love to hear. If you're on audio and listening to the podcast, the back half will be released tomorrow. If you're with us live, though, we're going to do it right now. So don't go anywhere. I guess you can go pee or something if you want, but I don't recommend it. We'll see you in a second. Take care. Then roll the fucking dice.